--- Log opened Sun Nov 22 00:00:29 2009
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00:07 < westymatt_> Are there any good docs on how you deal with the json
object returned by json.StringToJson
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00:10 < alexsuraci> westymatt_: just glancing at the package docs, but Walk
looks useful enough
00:10 < westymatt_> ohh yeah
00:10 < alexsuraci> not sure exactly what path syntax it expects, look like
a simplified xpath type thing
00:11 < alexsuraci> *looks
00:11 < westymatt_> i see interesting
00:12 < alexsuraci> looks like it's just a /-delimited string of keys in a
map or numbers for an array
00:12 < alexsuraci> pretty straightforward
00:13 < westymatt_> yeah no doubt about that, thanks man
00:14 < westymatt_> do you know of any sizeable code bases built up yet in
go?
00:14 < westymatt_> I am trying to do something fairly large
00:14 < alexsuraci> not yet, still a bit early
00:14 < alexsuraci> lots of wrappers and toys/experiments though :P
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00:14 < spikebike> egads
00:14 < spikebike> more than I expected
00:15 < dagle2> oki.
00:15 < spikebike> any hints for u64 -> float conversion?
00:15 < spikebike> bandwidth = (size*4.0)/((t2-t1)*1.0);
00:15 < spikebike> hello.go:25: cannot use 4000000 / ((t2 - t1) * 1) (type
int64) as type float
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00:17 <+iant> spikebike: float((size*4.0)/((t2-t1)*1.0))
00:17 < spikebike> thx
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00:19 < ehird> What should I pass as flag to os.Open if it's irrelevant?
00:19 < ehird> 0 or -1?
00:19 <+iant> ehird: it doesn't really matter, I would recommend 0
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00:19 < ehird> Right.
00:20 < spikebike> ah, seems like bandwidth =
(float(size)*4.0)/(float(t2-t1));
00:20 < spikebike> is needed
00:20 < ehird> Hm. `var buf [8192]byte` then `file.Read(buf)` complains that
[8192]byte isn't []byte.  How are you meant to make a slice with a certain length?
00:20 < ehird> Oh, new.
00:20 < ehird> Duh.
00:21 < halfdan> or make
00:21 <+iant> or, given var v [8192]byte, &v can be implicitly converted to
type []byte
00:21 < ehird> Yeah, make().
00:21 < ehird> iant: Oh, that's a better idea.
00:21 < ehird> iant: Well, if it worked.
00:21 < ehird> `var buf [8192]byte`, `file.Read(&buf)`: cannot use buf (type
[8192]uint8) as type []uint8
00:22 < ehird> Using gc.
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00:23 <+iant> ehird: hmmm, seems to work for me....
00:23 < ehird> iant: The Read is in a for{} while the declaration is not, if
that makes a difference.
00:23 < ehird> Wait.  Oh.
00:23 <+iant> that shouldn't make any difference
00:24 < ehird> It's talking about a different line to that one.
00:24 < ehird> I should really correlate those line numbers.
00:24 < ehird> `os.Stdout.Write(buf)` needs to be `os.Stdout.Write(&buf)`,
to be precise.
00:24 <+iant> though in that case you might really want something like
buf[0:n] where n is the value returned by Read
00:25 < ehird> Good point.
00:25 < ehird> It seems to work regardless, though; probably I'm just lucky.
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00:25 < ehird> It gets a bit tedious writing if err != nil { exitCode = 1;
fmt.Fprintln(os.Stderr, err); return; } all the time.
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00:26 < ehird> I should turn that into `if error(err) { return }`, I guess.
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00:28 < g0xff> Hi! I do not know English.  There is Russian-speaking?
00:29 < KragenSitaker> g0xff: no
00:29 < KragenSitaker> g0xff: or probably not here, anyway
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00:30 < g0xff> With language Go will be doing projects for App Engine?
00:30 < g0xff> Go generates byte code for the JVM?
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00:31 < jordyd> As far as I know, Go does not generate bytecode for the JVM.
00:31 < g0xff> I'll teach you not only the Go, as well as English.  Do you
mind?  For my curve English?
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00:33 < g0xff> The plans have generated JVM?
00:34 <+iant> The Go compilers generate native code, not Java byte code;
there are no plans to generate Java byte code
00:34 < ericmoritz\0> Go would have to be crippled to run on appengine
00:34 < jordyd> How, ericmoritz\0?
00:34 < ericmoritz\0> jordyd, to comply with the restrictions that appengine
has
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00:36 < g0xff> With the help of Go can be written projects for Appengine?
00:37 < g0xff> On the Go can be written projects for Appengine?
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00:37 < ericmoritz\0> I'm sure they could squeeze it into appengine
00:38 < ericmoritz\0> but not at the moment
00:38 < g0xff> If yes, show an example.
00:38 < ericmoritz\0> Appengine doesn't support Go at the moment.
00:39 < ericmoritz\0> I am sorry.  I did not know you spoke Russian natively
00:40 < uriel> ericmoritz\0: I don't think go would have to be crippled much
to run on GAE, and it would be a huge improvement over java (and for anything perf
sensitive over python)
00:40 < g0xff> Why develop this language if there is such a C + +.
00:40 < uriel> btw, anyone interested in Go on App Engine, vote here:
http://code.google.com/p/googleappengine/issues/detail?id=2382
00:41 < XniX23> g0xff: Go is not C++, C++ takes time to program + time to
compile...
00:41 < uriel> and c++ damages your brain
00:41 < jordyd> g0xff: Why develop C++ if there is C? Why develop C is there
is ALGOL?  Why develop ALGOL if there if ASM?
00:42 < uriel> jordyd: why develop c++ id there was C is indeed a very good
question, with a surprising answer:
http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/I_did_it_for_you_all
00:42 < ericmoritz\0> uriel, Yeah, maybe crippled was a bad word to use.
Sandboxed, would have been better.
00:42 < jordyd> uriel: Ah, yes, I've seen that before :)
00:42 < uriel> ericmoritz\0: yea, but sandboxing go would be relatively
easy, compared to C and C++
00:43 < uriel> jordyd: well, it is always worth reminding people about it ;P
00:43 < ericmoritz\0> uriel, You're right, I'm not arguing with you.  I'd
love to see Go on Appengine.  Appengine is a great little environment for getting
things up and running fast
00:44 < spikebike> uriel: that was a great joke
00:44 < XniX23> can anyone tell in 2 words what google app engine is for?
:$
00:44 < uriel> spikebike: indeed, and like all great joke it has some deep
truths in it ;)
00:45 < uriel> XniX23: no sysadmin
00:45 < spikebike> hmm, 6l seems to max out at around 500MB/minute
00:45 < spikebike> (to main memory)
00:45 < spikebike> time to try gccgo
00:45 < uriel> (actually there is more to it, but after over a decade of
having to deal with systemadministration crap just so my software could run, app
engine is quite liberating)
00:46 < jordyd> Oh, wow.  I just got why there was a \0 at the end of your
name, ericmoritz\0 :) I feel kind of slow right now.
00:46 < uriel> (of course, it comes at a price, and not just in $$$ but in
flexibility and indeed performance, Go support would go a long way to solve those
issues)
00:46 < g0xff> As Go is better than C? Syntax?, It is a matter of taste.
00:46 < g0xff> Speed?  So you can tweak the C compiler
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00:46 < uriel> g0xff: Go syntax is simpler and clearner
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00:47 < g0xff> I do not have time to translate you:)
00:47 < uriel> takes a bit to get used to (like the Caps), but I fear it
will be painful going back to C..
00:47 < XniX23> lol uriel nice one
00:47 < alexsuraci> iant: are there any plans for allowing methods to be
first-class values and passed around?  for example, handle() here is just a
wrapper to cont.Handle, it'd be nice to be able to just pass cont.Handle:
http://github.com/vito/go-play/blob/master/gopaste/main.go
00:47 < FxChiP> psh
00:47 < FxChiP> C is still better :P
00:47 < FxChiP> But Go is nice
00:47 < alexsuraci> granted that may be getting into partial application but
this seems like kind of a special case
00:47 < jordyd> alexsuraci: There are Go selectors...  is that what you're
looking for?
00:48 < uriel> FxChiP: they are certainly not completely equivalent, C will
always be the best portable asm around
00:49 < FxChiP> :D
00:49 < alexsuraci> jordyd: don't think so, but maybe I'm misunderstanding
you; what do you mean?
00:49 < FxChiP> You say "portable asm" like it's a bad thing
00:49 < jordyd> Here: http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Selectors
00:49 < kmc> C doesn't even have jumps
00:49 < kmc> you can't compile tail-calls to C without much pain
00:49 < kmc> it's not a good portable asm
00:49 < kmc> LLVM and C-- are both better
00:50 < alexsuraci> jordyd: then no; for example, if Bar is a method on foo,
you can't just do "foo.Bar" as a value, you always have to call it
00:50 < spikebike> how big is an int in go?  Is there a sizeof equiv?
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00:51 < ericmoritz\0> jordyd, Yeah, I used to be slashzero on here, then I
started going by my name and I got tired of saying that I was, slashzero, so I
combined the two
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00:52 < jordyd> ericmoritz\0: In other words: "strcat(name, "ericmortiz");"
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00:53 < jordyd> I hate C, and love it at the same time...  does anyone else
feel that way?
00:53 < qeed> yeah sure
00:54 < uriel> jordyd: I mostly hate all the C 'programmers' that understand
nothing about how to write sane code
00:54 < kmc> everyone
00:54 < uriel> (cpp abuse is a prime cause of brain damage there)
00:54 < g0xff> jordyd why hate?
00:54 < uriel> hi kmc
00:54 < kmc> hi
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00:55 < jordyd> g0xff: It's very...  annoying, I guess would be the word.
It's almost always way too low-level for what it's used for.
00:55 < jordyd> But since people use it for so much, I run into it a lot
more than I'd like.
00:56 < g0xff> What Google says about the App under the Go?
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00:57 < jordyd> g0xff: I didn't quite understand that.  Could you reword it?
00:59 < spikebike> I kinda like python, except for it's typing and
performance.  For heavily parallel type workloads go looks like a very good fit.
Easy to write it, able to make a programmer productive, yet still get a large
fraction of the available perfomrance
00:59 < spikebike> in particular goroutines and channels lok very handy
00:59 < spikebike> look
00:59 < g0xff> what Google says about the use of language Go to the App?
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01:00 < ericmoritz\0> uriel, speaking of sandboxing, someone has already
don't it, http://gofmt.com/compile.html
01:00 < ericmoritz\0> don't = done
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01:00 < jordyd> g0xff: By "the App", do you mean the App Engine?
01:01 < g0xff> true
01:02 < westymatt_> man i am still struggling with the json lib
01:02 < spikebike> heh funny
01:02 < westymatt_> are there any good example of string to json object?
01:02 < ericmoritz\0> spikebike, yup Go seems to be a great between language
for Python and C. If Python fails you, and you don't need low level C, goto Go
01:02 < jordyd> I don't think they've taken a position on it, although I may
be wrong.  I definitely don't think they'll make any bindings for App Engine until
the language is more or less "stable".
01:02 < spikebike> eric where did you see that url??  that machine is faster
than my desktop (q6600)
01:02 < westymatt_> I need to be able to access the data return from
StringToJson
01:03 < jordyd> g0xff: My last message was addressed to you.
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01:03 < ericmoritz\0> spikebike, I think it was on reddit, it's running on
dreamhost.  I've already tried openning /etc/passwd for fun.  It won't compile, it
just hangs
01:04 < spikebike> I'm running a threadded cpu benchamrk
01:04 < spikebike> er writing
01:04 < spikebike> I'll soon know how many threads it has available ;-)
01:04 < g0xff> jordyd Answer: Yes
01:05 < spikebike> no evil global interpreter lock in go ;-)
01:06 < spikebike> heh
01:06 < spikebike> it targets arm as well, wonder how long till the android
port
01:06 < ericmoritz\0> spikebike, I used it to write something real quick on
my iphone at lunch the other day.
01:06 < westymatt_> What does go mean, by a runtime?
01:07 < jordyd> ericmoritz\0: How can you write something on your iPhone
without access to the SDK?
01:07 < westymatt_> ssh
01:07 < ericmoritz\0> "real quick" isn't very accurate given the keyboard
and lack of quick reference to golang.org
01:07 < ericmoritz\0> jordyd, nah, on http://gofmt.com/compile.html
01:07 <+iant> alexsuraci: yes, the plan to permit T.M, where T is a type and
M is a method name, to be a regular function with the type of M plus one
additional initial parameter, which is the receiver
01:08 * spikebike slowly checks out gccgo
01:09 < westymatt_> After I just StringToJson do i need to marshall it into
a map?
01:09 < westymatt_> or Array rather
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01:09 < uriel> ericmoritz\0: yes, seen that, but it is not very clear how
well sandboxed that is ;)
01:10 < uriel> iant: nice!
01:10 < uriel> (although I have not missed that much)
01:10 < uriel> I really *love* interfaces, they might be superficially
similar to Java's, but they are so much more beautifully designed and crafter and
much more useufl
01:10 < uriel> er useful
01:11 < spikebike> yeah, agreed
01:11 < spikebike> you'd think pike was smart or something ;-)
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01:11 < halfdan> uriel: i hope that if they integrate generics in go it
won't be that crappy as it is in java
01:12 < ehird> Is there any function string→time.Time?
01:12 < uriel> halfdan: I'm not sure generics are very necessary, certainly
not as much as people that don't seem to have learned anything about Go interfaces
claim them to be
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01:12 < ehird> ocaml has basically the same thing as go interfaces, they're
great
01:13 < uriel> sadly, the way the software industry works is by buzzwords
and ticking checkboxes and not by actual quality and usefulness
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01:14 < uriel> rob should have know to give interfaces a more hypable name,
like "dynamic generic polyphormic meta abstract interfaces" or something
01:14 < ehird> Seems there is indeed no way to parse a string to a Time.
01:14 < ehird> uriel: why bother?  Go isn't Java so it won't be generally
accepted anyway
01:14 < ehird> and look how far it's got on only the name of Google
01:14 < spikebike> heh, dunno
01:15 < uriel> ehird: yea, attracting people that want to learn Go as their
first programming language...  (which might not be necessarly a bad thing, but...)
01:15 < spikebike> it's gotten decent far for a few weeks
01:15 < alexsuraci> iant: cool.  don't think that would work in this case
though, since the method would be passed to HandlerFunc which expects a function
with just the two parameters.  I was thinking more along the lines of how Python
lets you pass an object instance's method as a value and be called as a regular
function on the receiving end
01:15 < ehird> uriel: Who cares?  /shrug
01:16 <+iant> alexsuraci: ah, for that you would have to use a closure
01:16 < ehird> uriel: btw, I have cat and mkdir done and am working on
touch.  Talk about low-hanging fruit!
01:16 < uriel> ehird: awesome :)
01:16 < uriel> by the way, I updated:
http://go-lang.cat-v.org/library-bindings
01:16 < uriel> and http://go-lang.cat-v.org/pure-go-libs
01:17 < uriel> quite a few new items added..
01:17 < ehird> my cat isn't all that fast but who cares
01:17 < ehird> (just reads in 8192-byte buffers like plan 9 cat)
01:17 < ehird> still happens in the blink of an eye on a ~1 gb file
01:18 < ehird> I would have uname, but it seems OS X, which I'm currently
on, doesn't have syscall.{Uname,Utsname}.
01:18 < jordyd> uriel: It's not just the software industry; everything is
run by buzzwords.
01:18 < uriel> ehird: really, I doubt gnu cat is any faster, wouldn't be the
first or hundreth time tons of 'optimization' code makes the whole thing slower
01:18 < uriel> ehird: plan9 has no uname ;)
01:18 < ehird> uriel: i was "benchmarking" against bsd (well, os x) cat, so
yeah
01:19 < ehird> uriel: indeed, but a bunch of stuff calls uname and it's just
a few lines
01:19 < alexsuraci> iant: not sure how that'd work, mind elaborating?
01:19 < uriel> jordyd: I guess you are right
01:19 < uriel> ehird: well, making it portable might be a bit more tricky,
but fine, hey, up to you, go wild!  ;)
01:19 <+iant> alexsuraci: I haven't looked at your code, but I mean
something like func(x int) int { return myobj.method(x) }
01:19 < ehird> uriel: uname()/struct utsname is in fact widely supported
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01:19 < ehird> well, on posix clones and the like that is
01:20 < ehird> linux and bsds all support it, and i would be incredibly
surprised if solaris didn't
01:20 < alexsuraci> iant: ah, ok.  I guess I could just use that here too,
or just put a Handler() method on the object that returns a closure.  thanks!
01:22 < ehird> uriel: do you have any idea why plan 9 mkdir has -m mode to
set the mode of the created dir?
01:22 < ehird> i see no reason to use it over `mkdir foo && chmod blah foo`
01:22 < uriel> ehird: perhaps for security reasons, in case the default
perms are to permissive
01:22 < ehird> seems kinda edge-case
01:22 < uriel> yes
01:23 <+iant> GNU/Linux mkdir has a -m option also
01:23 < uriel> maybe there is another reason I don't know
01:23 < uriel> feel free to not implement it
01:23 < ehird> iant: don't you mean --set-mode-of-new-directory?!  :P
01:23 < uriel> (actually I wouldn't)
01:23 < ehird> uriel: yeah, I omitted it
01:23 < uriel> good
01:23 < uriel> iant: yea, but Plan 9 doesn't implement every silly useless
flag imaginable ;)
01:23 <+iant> surprisingly, the synonym for -n is just --mode
01:23 <+iant> s/-n/-m/
01:25 < ehird> hmm, /doc/progs/cat.go does exit(1) on the first unreadable
file
01:26 < ehird> strange
01:26 < ehird> but also intuitive, heh
01:27 < XniX23> ericmoritz\0: Python i think is still a lot more high level
than Go
01:28 < ehird> uriel: opinion on things like cat/mkdir that take multiple
args and basically loop them — should they die on the first error or continue onto
the other files, the latter being more common?
01:28 < ehird> not sure what plan 9 does, actually
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01:28 < ehird> the latter, at least plan9port
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01:29 < XniX23> are the improvements when compiled with gccgo big?
01:29 < jordyd> Wait...
01:29 < jordyd> Whoops.  Hit enter too early.
01:29 < uriel> ehird: the later I think, specially something like cat
01:29 < spikebike> XniX23: I'm about to quantify that
01:29 < ehird> hmm, the example cat.go includedd with go also uses different
var names fort he error from reading and writing
01:30 < spikebike> if this svn checkout ever finishes
01:30 < ehird> I've just been wantonly overwriting err
01:30 < ehird> wonder if I should change
01:30 < uriel> ehird: btw, might make sense to take goblin-specific talk to
#cat-v it is a bit offtopic here
01:30 < ehird> uriel: yeah, ok
01:30 < jordyd> Anyways, what is Plan9 used for?
01:30 < westymatt_> how do you concat strings in go?
01:30 < XniX23> spikebike: post result when you get them
01:30 < ehird> jordyd: smugness
01:31 < ehird> in fact the original paper was titled "Enabling Smugness over
Internet Relay Chat Through a System Cleverly Disguised as a Research Operating
System"
01:31 < uriel> ehird: it is a secret, if we told you we would have to kill
you
01:31 < uriel> ehird: hahaha
01:31 < ehird> think you meant jordyd: there
01:31 < dddd> how do I delete a key from a map?
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01:32 < XniX23> does map act like a dict in py?  or am i wrong?  :)
01:32 < dddd> i thought..
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01:33 < jordyd> XniX23: Yes.
01:33 < jordyd> XniX23: But you would not operate on it the same way, of
course.
01:35 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@e181229131.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote closed
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01:35 < XniX23> dddd: timeZone["PDT"] = 0, false; To delete a map entry,
turn the multiple assignment around by placing an extra boolean on the right; if
the boolean is false, the entry is deleted.
01:35 < XniX23> jordyd: yes i know :D
01:35 < dddd> oh ok, thanks
01:36 < XniX23> dddd: i read that in effective go part
01:37 * spikebike builds gccgo
01:37 < dddd> ah now i see it, i don't know how i missed that =)
01:37 < jordyd> I'm just dying to find some use for channels...  Maybe I'll
make an IRC server or something.
01:37 < spikebike> heh
01:37 < clip9> if you make a pointer with var p5 *myStruct; you have to
allocte it with p5 = new(myStruct); right?
01:38 < spikebike> I'm playing with them for pthreads/sync type usages to
let me run a memory benchmark per core
01:38 < KirkMcDonald> clip9: Sure.  Or just say: p5 := new(myStruct);
01:38 < spikebike> I have to be careful without garbage collection I can't
use my normal allocate tons of arrays of different sizes for benchmarking
01:40 < jordyd> spikebike: Why not allocate tons of arrays and subsequently
free them for benchmarking?
01:40 < spikebike> is there a free?
01:40 < clip9> thanks.
01:40 < spikebike> I didn't expect a free in a language with garbage
collection
01:41 < jordyd> Well, how are you getting arrays that won't be garbage
collected?
01:41 < spikebike> gccgo doesn't have gc
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01:45 < jordyd> Why use gccgo if your programs are guaranteed to leak like
crazy?
01:46 < ehird> Is there anything in the stdlib to parse a string into a
Time?  It's strange that I can't find anything.
01:46 < spikebike> jordyd: umm I'll just work around it and not leak
01:47 < spikebike> I'm very curious if on 8-16 thread hardware if memory
bandwidth scales with gccgo
01:50 < spikebike> gcc takes awhile to build even with make -j4
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01:52 < sebastiandeutsch> noob question try to compile a more complex
example (http.server) but the compiler complains that he doesn't know Conn Request
Redirect and so on.
01:54 < jordyd> ehird: I don't see anything either...  but I guess you could
improvise with the regexp library.
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01:54 < ehird> jordyd: yeah
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01:56 < ehird> is there a way to make switch {} fallthrough?
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01:56 < ehird> continue; maybe?
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01:56 < ehird> wait, nm
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01:57 < sebastiandeutsch> ahh simply haven't imported http
01:58 < sebastiandeutsch> is there something like "use pkg" so that I dont
have to namespace all classes?
01:58 <+iant> sebastiandeutsch: import . pkg
01:59 < sebastiandeutsch> iant: thx
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02:01 < ericmoritz\0> iant, sebastiandeutsch I use that all the time with
fmt
02:06 < XniX23> import .pkg is for all Go packages?
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02:08 <+iant> XniX23: It's import . "name of package"; the . means to import
into the global scope
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02:10 < iankt> hi, im getting fatal error: can't find import: fmt, I know
the path is set in some ENVVAR, but not sure which (GOROOT is set to $HOME/go)
02:10 < KirkMcDonald> iankt: You also need GOARCH and GOOS set,
02:10 < iankt> k
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02:12 < iankt> perfect, that works on the command line, but not in TextMate
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02:12 < iankt> I probably need to set those in .bashrc ?
02:12 < KirkMcDonald> That's the usual place.
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02:13 < iankt> xfingers that it works in OSX
02:13 < iankt> :S
02:13 < iankt> ...  nope
02:14 < KirkMcDonald> iankt: You need to 'export' them.
02:14 < KirkMcDonald> iankt: export GOOS=darwin
02:14 < KirkMcDonald> Or whatever it is.
02:14 < iankt> yea, I did that
02:14 < iankt> but the TextMate bundle uses 6g
02:14 < iankt> for some reason ...
02:14 < KirkMcDonald> You're executing the compiler via the editor?
02:14 < iankt> ya, trying
02:15 < iankt> works in terminal
02:15 < KirkMcDonald> The editor may or may not execute the compile in the
same environment which the editor is being run in.
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02:15 < KirkMcDonald> You might have to instruct the editor as to which
environment variables to use.
02:15 < evilhackerdude> the texmate bundle is currently not working for that
02:15 * iankt looks
02:15 < iankt> oh ...
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02:16 < iankt> ok, I will use TM for editing and compile in terminal then
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02:18 < iankt> evilhackerdude: do you think Alan Quatermain plans to get
that working?
02:22 < ehird> Huh...  not only is there no string→Time, there's no
format,Time→string!
02:22 < ehird> (strftime)
02:22 < evilhackerdude> iankt: i hope so, but no clue
02:22 < iankt> I'm going to try setting the envvar in TM's preferences
02:23 < iankt> fail :(
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02:34 < sebastiandeutsch> If I want to use a C++ lib within my go program
what is place that I can look in the doko?  Googling Foreign Function Interface go
C++ did not help.
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02:36 < jordyd> I don't think you can.  I've only heard of being able to use
Go with C via cgo.
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02:40 < spikebike> I've got a tiny bit of go code
02:40 < spikebike> runs fine with 6g
02:40 < spikebike> seg faults with gccgo
02:40 < spikebike> any ideas?
02:41 < ehird> Is there a way to pass an array as the arguments to a vararg
function?
02:41 < XniX23> hmmm...  gopaste and show it to iant i guess
02:42 < spikebike> http://broadley.org/bill/hello.go
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02:44 < spikebike> export PATH=/opt/pkg/gcc-4.4-svn/bin:$PATH
02:44 < spikebike> export
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/pkg/gcc-4.4-svn/lib:/opt/pkg/gcc-4.4-svn/lib64
02:44 < uriel> spikebike: I would report an issue
02:44 < spikebike> is what I did post gccgo install
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02:44 < XniX23> off to bed, night
02:44 < uriel> spikebike: use gofmt, and use gopaste.org ;)
02:44 < ehird> maybe you have to use the reflect pkg to pass varargs
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02:45 < ehird> that would be annoying, though
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02:46 < ehird> reflect.NewValue(fmt.Printf).Call(args), yeck
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02:55 < jessicara> i remember 10 years ago my pc would lock up at 20 times
less the number of rejoins lol
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02:57 < ehird> what's the stdlib function to read a number in a certain
base?
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03:00 * spikebike ran gofmt
03:01 < spikebike> funky
03:01 < spikebike> if a compile static it runs and then crashes
03:01 < spikebike> if I compile dynamic it crashes
03:02 < spikebike> no warnings of any kind
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03:04 < jordyd> I'm aware that there are no C callbacks implemented for Go,
but is there an issue for it?
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03:05 < spikebike> anyone have what they think is a working gccgo?
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03:05 < jordyd> Mine says: gcc: gengtype-lex.c: No such file or directory
03:05 < jordyd> I was never really interested in it enough to look further.
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03:08 < spikebike> Is there a ^ or ** operator?
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03:08 < westymatt_> http request, req.Body is an io.Reader, how do i read it
all into a bytes[]
03:08 < westymatt_> ?
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03:08 < spikebike> i.e.  x*x = x^2
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03:09 * spikebike wonders wtf http://golang.org/pkg/exp/spacewar/ is
03:10 < spikebike> ah pow
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03:15 < westymatt_> Anyone know how to make a byte array with an unknown
size?
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03:16 < westymatt_> I just need to read in io.Reader from req.Body.Read()
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03:20 < westymatt_> cool just finished a project in go, it runs an http
server you hit it with a url and a POST saves data, hit the url with a GET and it
retrieves it
03:20 < westymatt_> man that was fun in go
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03:27 < spikebike> westymatt_: using 6g or gccgo?
03:27 < westymatt_> 8g
03:27 < anticw> spikebike: pdp-1 emulator w/ spacewar for native client
03:27 < spikebike> nice
03:27 < anticw> westymatt_: arrays can't have unknown sizes, usr a splice
03:27 < anticw> the size is part of the type
03:28 < spikebike> I need I'll have to see if I can get it going
03:28 < westymatt_> ohh right
03:28 < alexsuraci> hmm.  I'm ranging over a map, but I'd also like a
counter "i" being incremented in the loop.  can't find a way to work it into the
"for ...  {" bit.
03:28 < westymatt_> well actually i decided to use a map, but on the top
level i have "entries := make(map[string]string);" is there something wrong with
that?
03:28 < westymatt_> it's at the top level of the package
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03:29 < westymatt_> it says that's the syntax error
03:30 < alexsuraci> bah, I'll just axe this part, it's starting to get
unwieldly :P
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03:35 < westymatt_> anyone know of a good example using io.Reader, i just
need to read one in
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03:45 < westymatt_> can you not use make() at the package level?
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03:46 <+iant> you can use make() to initialize a global variable, if that is
what you mean
03:47 < westymatt_> yeah can you do that at the package level?
03:47 <+iant> I'm not sure what you are asking; I don't know how to answer
except to repeat what I just said
03:47 < westymatt_> "entries := make(map[string]string);" I want to do that
underneath my package delcaration
03:48 <+iant> You can only use := inside a function
03:48 < anticw> iant: don't you ever sleep?  :)
03:48 < westymatt_> but i get a syntax error
03:48 <+iant> anticw: it's not that late here, I doubt I'll be online
tomorrow, though
03:49 < anticw> iant: same TZ as here (im just north of you) ...  i was just
reflecting that you're often here
03:49 <+iant> true, it's been an unusually busy time
03:50 < anticw> iant: any idea what the reasoning is to have s[x:] ==
s[x:len(s)] ...  but not s[:x] for s[0:x] ???
03:50 <+iant> anticw: we didn't really discuss the latter, actually
03:50 <+iant> anticw: the former is a clear win, the latter less impressive
03:50 <+iant> anticw: but I agree that it makes sense
03:50 < anticw> iant: actually, it's good to see you and the others so
responsive, it's really useful when something is this new ...  my biggest fear is
lack of long time momentum and also the likely hood that some 'raw' aspects of
things will get set in stone as a standard
03:51 <+iant> yeah, I hope we can avoid the latter problem, the momentum
issue is not much under our control, we'll just have to see
03:51 < anticw> iant: if everything remained 'up for debate' for at least a
year or two that would be wonderful, things like a sane db api tends to take a
long time to get right (various people have suggested a variation of pep249 which
is a good idea, but some small changes would be nice)
03:52 <+iant> yeah, I'm glad so many people are interested in the DB API,
that is something I wanted to work on but never found time for
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03:52 < anticw> iant: oh, gccgo question for you ...  will/can that get
similar code level optimizatiosn in theory to gcc w/ c for heavy fpu inner loop
code?
03:52 <+iant> yes, it should get the same level of optimization
03:53 <+iant> all the language frontends feed into the same middle-end, and
loop optimization is done in the middle-end
03:53 < anticw> interesting, i should try that ....  6g vs gcc (apples,
oranges) i see quite some differences
03:53 < westymatt_> "entries := make(map[string] string, 100);" is this
illegal right under the package declaration?
03:54 < anticw> can't be global
03:54 < anticw> (though im not sure why)
03:54 < westymatt_> ahh got ya
03:54 <+iant> westymatt_: no, you can't use := outside of a function
03:54 < me___> anticw: what kind of differences?
03:54 < westymatt_> ahh i see weird
03:54 <+iant> westymatt_: var entries = make(map[string]string, 100)
03:54 <+iant> at top level all declarations start with a keyword
03:54 < anticw> me___: performance is well off, it could be something else
though
03:55 < westymatt_> iant: thank you worked like a charm
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03:58 < spikebike> fmt.Printf("%lf"); doesn't work for float64
03:58 < anticw> Lf?
03:58 < spikebike> whats the %f require for float64?
03:59 <+iant> just %f is fine
03:59 <+iant> you need to modify the % for the type of the argument
03:59 <+iant> gah, I mean you *don't* need to modify the %
03:59 < spikebike> var bandwidth float64;
04:00 < spikebike> fmt.Printf("bandwidth = %f\n", bandwidth);
04:00 < spikebike> bw.go:35: fatal error: bad width
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04:01 <+iant> I wonder where that error comes from
04:01 < hstimer> whois hstimer
04:03 < anticw> btw, what are people using for cross-arch makefile target
rules?  i have a hack that sets the suffix to use based on arch, but that seems
gross
04:03 < hstimer> question on alignment -- for external functions sometimes
you need a particular alignment -- is there a way to do that in go?
04:03 <+iant> hstimer: no, sorry
04:03 <+iant> spikebike: I can't find that error message, do you see that at
runtime?
04:03 < hstimer> iant: how about with the ffi?
04:04 <+iant> hstimer: you mean, write a C function?
04:04 < hstimer> iant: specifically I'm thinking with opencl -- to pass data
in, it is very particular about alignment
04:04 < spikebike> iant: it's the result when I run 6g
04:05 < spikebike> $ 6g bw.go
04:05 < spikebike> bw.go:35: fatal error: bad width
04:05 <+iant> spikebike: ah, well, 6g is certainly not complaining about the
string passed to fmt.Printf
04:05 <+iant> hstimer: I see, alignment of data; there isn't any way to
control that at present
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04:06 <+iant> spikebike: what is line 35 of your file?
04:06 < hstimer> iant: is it on the list for the future of is it considered
out of scope?
04:06 < spikebike> fmt.Printf("bandwidth = %f\n", bandwidth);
04:07 <+iant> hstimer: we have not discussed it; could you open an issue for
it if there isn't one open already?  Give an example of where it would be needed
04:07 < hstimer> iant: k
04:07 <+iant> spikebike: and bandwidth is really a float64 as you showed
earlier?
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04:08 < spikebike> ya
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04:08 <+iant> spikebike: that sounds like a compiler bug, can you open an
issue for it?  thanks
04:09 < spikebike> sure
04:09 < spikebike> hmm wonder if gccgo does different
04:09 <+iant> include the complete test case in the issue
04:09 < spikebike> will do, gccgo doesn't have the problem
04:10 < anticw> iant: the exception example/code checked in last night ...
i assume that's more for discussion and demonstration purposes than anything
medium to long term?
04:11 * spikebike works on a simpler case
04:11 <+iant> I didn't talk to gri about it, but I think it is more along
the lines of an interesting idea
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04:15 < spikebike> iant: funky, my simple case doesn't trigger it
04:16 < anticw> mine doesn't either, probably depends on the surrounding
code
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04:17 < ehird> What's the idiomatic way to sort by a function I provide?
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04:21 < spikebike> crap
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04:21 < spikebike> replicating all lines with bandwidth init isn't enough
04:25 < anticw> iant: btw, you're aware gnu strip hoses the 6l produced elf
binaries?
04:25 < anticw> nm, i see there is an issue for that ...  should have
searched first
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04:32 < diltsman_> I'm writing a recursive descent parser and I'm trying to
figure out what signature the parsing methods should use.  From what I can figure
out then need a []byte input and need to return the node generated by the method,
an error code, and the []byte of unprocessed input.  I'm getting something like:
func XXXX(input []byte) (ast *Node, remain []byte, err os.Error).  Is there some
other signature that would make sense?
04:32 <+iant> diltsman_: traditionally one would separate the lexer and the
parser; the lexer would take []byte and return tokens, and the parser would handle
the tokens
04:33 < diltsman_> Right, but the grammar I'm using just does it all in one
step.
04:33 < diltsman_> It could just as easily be arrays of tokens as arrays of
bytes.
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04:34 <+iant> I guess my inclination would be to have an interface which
returns the next token or byte sequence or whatever
04:34 <+iant> but I don't see anything wrong with your proposal
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04:35 < zerofluid> ok - related question: I see goyacc - what is the
equivalent of lex?  Or did I just repeat the question by coming in too late?
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04:35 <+iant> zerofluid: there is no golex yet
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04:37 < zerofluid> thank you
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04:56 < spikebike> gccgo
04:56 < spikebike> bandwidth = 1048.281744
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04:56 < spikebike> 6g: bandwidth = 542.901482
04:59 < Amaranth> spikebike: gccgo is expected to optimize better
04:59 < Amaranth> but 6g is a _lot_ faster
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05:02 < spikebike> 6g is a _lot_ faster than what?
05:04 < aho> 6g compiles a lot faster than gccgo
05:05 < spikebike> heh
05:05 < aho> but the binaries from gccgo run a lot faster :>
05:05 < spikebike> 0.157 seconds is fast enough to me
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05:10 < zerofluid> trying to wrap my head around the Chaining example in
Pike's talk - it appears a function without an explicit return will update its
input parameters.  Are all parameters IN/OUT parameters by default?
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05:10 < ehird> zerofluid: func foo(args) (returns)
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05:10 < ehird> func foo() (ret int) { ret = 42; return; }
05:10 < ehird> foo() → 42
05:11 < ehird> or am i misunderstanding yoou?
05:11 < ehird> *you
05:11 < zerofluid> func f(left, right chan int) { left <- 1 + <- right
}
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05:12 < zerofluid> two chan's in, left is updated - it appears at least left
is returned without being returned - unless I'm completely missing something
05:12 < ehird> ah.  don't know, sry
05:12 < engla> zerofluid: channels are reference types
05:13 < engla> zerofluid: otherwise it would not make much sense.  both left
and right are "modified" here
05:13 < engla> since you pull a value from right and send a value into left
05:13 < zerofluid> ok - makes sense
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06:04 < ehird> Hmm, is it totally impossible to assign a const to an array?
06:04 < ehird> No special make-immutable stuff?
06:06 < directrixx> ehird: why do you want to make an immutable array?  are
you trying to do some sort of enum?
06:06 < ehird> Just a lookup table.
06:06 < directrixx> ehird: but to answer your question, I don't think there
is
06:06 < ehird> What about a map, then?
06:07 < directrixx> you could do const( A = iota; B; C; D; ...  )
06:07 < ehird> no, that would not suffice.
06:07 < directrixx> I don't think const maps are allowed either
06:07 < ehird> Oh well, I'll do it the boring and verbose way.
06:07 < ehird> Thanks anyway.
06:07 < KirkMcDonald> The only things which can be const are numbers and
strings, I think.
06:07 < KirkMcDonald> And bools.
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06:07 < directrixx> const TRUE = true
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06:09 < alexsuraci> hmm, there seem to be memory leaks in gopaste
06:10 < alexsuraci> found out with running ab on my local one
06:10 < alexsuraci> memory usage climbs over time
06:10 < Null-A> golang.org is written in go though
06:10 < Null-A> maybe the src is somewhere?
06:13 < ehird> it's just godoc
06:13 < ehird> What's the simplest way to center a string according to a
given length?
06:13 < alexsuraci> seems to happen in a really simple server, though not
nearly as swiftly (which makes sense)
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06:14 < Null-A> well if that's the case, i'm sure they ran into it with
golang
06:14 < aho> ehird, obtain it's lenght in pixels...  then do the math
*shrug*
06:14 < ehird> Pixels?
06:14 < ehird> What are you talking about?
06:15 < ehird> I'm talking about on stdout.
06:15 < aho> right.  then take the number of characters...  then do the math
:>
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06:15 < aho> you usually don't know how wide the terminal is though
06:16 < ehird> That's irrelevant.
06:16 < ehird> It's according to a given width.
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06:16 < ehird> I believe I saw a function for this, which is why I asked.
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06:18 < aho> back then (turbo c 1.0 days) i used a small utility function i
wrote myself (well, it's really simple stuff)
06:18 < aho> centering usually doesn't make much sense though
06:18 < aho> everything is either right or left aligned...  and that's it
06:19 < ehird> It clearly does make sense.
06:20 < ehird> See, for instance, the output of cal(1).
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06:21 < aho> and that outputs what exactly?
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06:23 < gonick> GO env variables are not accessible in my mac?
http://golangtalk.com/index.php?/topic/10-how-do-i-set-environment-variables-for-go-in-mac-os-x/
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06:28 < vt3> gonick, type bash to enter the bash shell.  then run env | grep
'^GO'
06:29 < gonick> yes!!  thank u
06:30 < vt3> np
06:30 < gonick> do i need to install go in bash shell?
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06:30 < vt3> that is what i had done.
06:31 < gonick> ok thanks, i'm installing now
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06:33 < alexsuraci> interesting, fixed the memory leak.
06:33 < alexsuraci> not 100% sure what caused it but I narrowed it down to
one thing
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06:36 < alexsuraci> http://gopaste.org/view/QM696
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06:38 < Null-A> how do I convert from U32 to U64?
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#go-nuts
06:39 < spikebike> anyone know if the code.google.com issue tracker should
be used for gccgo issues?
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06:41 < anticw> i assume so
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06:43 < gman1> I'm a new programmer.  I want to learn Objective-C 2.0 to
make iPhone apps.  Is Objective-C easier to learn than Google Go?
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06:43 < aaront> gman1: it all depends
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06:43 < gman1> Not sure if my previous message went through:
06:43 < gman1> I'm a new programmer.  I want to learn Objective-C 2.0 to
make iPhone apps.  Is Objective-C easier to learn than Google Go?
06:43 < aaront> gman1: Go is closer to C than Objective-C is, syntactically
(i think)
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06:44 < gman1> Ok, thanks for the response aaront
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06:44 < aaront> gman1: if you want to build iPhone apps, Obj-C is the way to
go
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06:44 < aaront> or any kind of Mac GUI stuff
06:45 < gman1> But what about Droid apps?  Will Droid apps be using Go?
06:45 < aaront> Go is still in it's infancy
06:45 < aaront> Droid uses Java
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06:45 < aaront> not sure about Google's future plans
06:45 < gman1> Ok, thanks for the explanation.
06:45 < aaront> but once you learn one language in depth, it isn't too hard
to pick up another one
06:45 < aaront> the concepts are the same
06:46 < gman1> Is Java easier to learn than Obj-C?  I'm a n00b in
programming, but would rather want to start with Android apps because iPhone
market is too competitive.
06:46 < aaront> haha
06:46 < aaront> it all depends, man
06:46 < ziyu4huang> competitive means there is marketing there.
06:46 < aaront> There are tons of guides for either
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06:47 < gman1> Ok, I'll just Google it.  This is the Go chat anyway, thanks
a lot for your help.  ;)
06:47 < aaront> np
06:47 < anticw> gman1: Droid is java
06:47 < anticw> and will likely remain close to that for some time because
of the interfaces/libraries
06:47 < gman1> Yea, aaront told me
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06:48 < aaront> the only thing i really hate about java is the boilerplate
06:48 < aaront> just seems so long and formal
06:48 < aaront> Go is very nice
06:50 < ziyu4huang> java is over 10 yeas old, give it a break ;)
06:50 < ziyu4huang> it is still important if you want get a job , though :)
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06:51 < aaront> haha, true
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06:51 < aaront> i bitch and moan about it, but in the end, I do know it and
use it a lot for school
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06:52 < ehird> is there any reason to do ` for i := 0; i < flag.NArg();
i++ { arg := flag.Arg(i); ...  }` over `for _, arg := range flag.Args() { ...  }`?
06:52 < anticw> the latter seems cleaner
06:52 < ehird> indeed.
06:52 < anticw> im not sure if there is a guide to what is consider 'go
idiomatic' yet
06:53 < anticw> if there is one i expect the latter will be preferred
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06:53 < ehird> the former is used in the examples.
06:54 < anticw> probably a good question for the list, i'd be interested in
the answer myself
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06:56 < anticw> gah, issue#9 nearly at 1000 comments
06:57 < alexsuraci> pretty much one big circlejerk at this point
06:57 < anticw> i wish they would freeze/close that for now...  very few of
the comments have any value at all
06:57 < aaront> hey alexsuraci!
06:57 < aaront> remember me from #chyrp?
06:57 < alexsuraci> people saying "THE COMMUNITY DEMANDS IT" when the
language is, what, 12 days old?  (1 at the time) what community?
06:57 < alexsuraci> aaront: yeah, recognized you :)
06:57 < aaront> :P
06:58 < anticw> the community seems mostly happy with "go" as a name
06:58 < anticw> if you use something with very few letters, collisions will
occur
06:58 < anticw> look at the *fs namespace across various unix filesystems,
it's very crowded
06:58 < alexsuraci> yeah
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07:01 < aaront> it's really stupid
07:02 < aaront> i mean, there wasn't even a wikipedia page for this other go
until this popped up
07:02 < aaront> not sure if anyone actually uses it
07:02 < alexsuraci> don't think so, I think it's still mostly academia
07:02 < aaront> oh definitely
07:03 < aaront> there's a link to his .mac page with a download link
07:03 < aaront> but it's several years old
07:04 < aaront> and he has a book, but it's self-published with Lulu :P
07:04 < alexsuraci> indeed
07:04 < JBeshir> Because everyone knows that naming conflicts have never
arisen before, are entirely Google's fault, and that the position of Go! in search
results can't possibly be being altered by current events.
07:06 < ehird> I love how the bitchers alternate between "Google should
change it, Go is too common" and "SOMEBODY ALREADY CALLED A LANGUAGE GO".
07:06 < ehird> It's...  not terribly consistent.
07:07 < ziyu4huang> It's name is "Go!" not "Go"
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07:08 < ehird> that too
07:08 < ziyu4huang> and unless you register a trademark, or you have strong
community support.  Why should people respect it ?
07:09 < gonick> error while installing go:
07:09 < gonick> ./all.bash
07:09 < gonick> installed quietgcc as /Users/Mani/bin/quietgcc but 'which
quietgcc' fails
07:09 < gonick> double-check that /Users/Mani/bin is in your $PATH
07:10 < alexsuraci> gonick: is /Users/Mani/bin in your $PATH?
07:10 < ziyu4huang> gonick : you need rehash , at list I have to do so in
tcsh
07:10 < gonick> ya it was in my path
07:11 < gonick> what is rehash?  how do i do that?
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07:11 < alexsuraci> gonick: do "echo $PATH" just to be sure of what it's
seeing
07:12 < ziyu4huang> gonick: what shell are you using ?
07:12 < alexsuraci> and possibly . /path/to/wherever/you/defined/PATH
07:12 < alexsuraci> e.g.  . ~/.bash_profile
07:12 < gonick> ziyu4huang: bash
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07:13 < ziyu4huang> gonick: I think you still ned set GOBIN
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07:14 < ziyu4huang> you have to set GOBIN and make sure GOBIN in is your
$PATH
07:14 < gonick> echo $GOBIN
07:14 < gonick> gives nothing
07:14 < gonick> even it was there in .bashrc
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07:15 < alexsuraci> gonick: did you export it and did you re-load your
.bashrc?
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07:15 < gonick> how would i do that?
07:15 < alexsuraci> which?
07:15 < gonick> reloading?
07:16 < alexsuraci> . <file>
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07:16 < alexsuraci> only needed if you did the editing of that file in your
session
07:17 < gonick> when i reload it says permission denied
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07:19 < gonick> even i was in root user mode
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07:19 < ziyu4huang> gonick: can you do "export |grep "^GO" so other people
can help you
07:23 < gonick> no output :( , but it displays output when i downloaded GO
using hg command
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07:24 < gonick> i used "env | grep '^GO' no output
07:24 < gonick> yes now got it
07:24 < gonick> GOARCH=386
07:24 < gonick> GOROOT=/Users/Mani/go
07:24 < gonick> GOOS=linux
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07:26 < gonick> but no GOBIN in output
07:26 < gonick> it was there in .bashrc file
07:27 < ziyu4huang> how do you set it ? "export GOBIN=$GOROOT/bin " should
works
07:27 < directrixx> gonick: what linux distro are you using that has your
home as /Users/Mani?
07:28 < ziyu4huang> it's looks like OSX to me ;)
07:28 < gonick> ya
07:28 < directrixx> ziyu4huang: my thoughts exactly, change GOOS to 'darwin'
07:28 < gonick> ok
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07:31 < ehird> and GOARCH=amd64
07:31 < ehird> unless you're on a Core Duo, non-Core 2 Duo mac
07:31 < ehird> which is unlikely
07:32 < gonick> i'm on intel core 2 DUO mac
07:32 < gonick> do i need to work in bash shell for all these commands?
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07:34 < ehird> what else
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07:34 < ehird> (why are you capitalising random words?  Go, Duo...)
07:34 < gonick> well, i don't know
07:37 < gonick> my .bashrc contents:
07:37 < gonick> export GOROOT=$HOME/go
07:37 < gonick> export GOBIN=$HOME/bin
07:37 < gonick> export GOARCH=386
07:37 < gonick> export GOOS=darwin
07:38 < gonick> my "env | grep '^GO'" command output
07:38 < gonick> env | grep '^GO'
07:38 < gonick> GOARCH=386
07:38 < gonick> GOROOT=/Users/Mani/go
07:38 < gonick> GOOS=linux
07:38 < gonick> i was totally confused.
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07:41 < ziyu4huang> you should "source ~/.bashrc"
07:41 < ziyu4huang> editing .bashrc doesn't affect your current session
07:41 < ehird> do GOARCH=amd64
07:41 < ehird> on os x
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07:42 < gonick> ok trying
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07:46 < gonick> still giving me the same results
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07:47 < gonick> yes got it
07:47 < gonick> thank you
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07:53 < gonick> oh, i got the same error again
07:54 < gonick> ./all.bash
07:54 < gonick> installed quietgcc as /Users/Mani/bin/quietgcc but 'which
quietgcc' fails
07:54 < gonick> double-check that /Users/Mani/bin is in your $PATH
07:54 < gonick> echo $GOBIN gives
07:54 < gonick> /Users/Mani/bin
07:57 < ziyu4huang> gonick: I think you getter learn more about how to work
under unix shell
07:58 < ziyu4huang> your question are all unix shell basic
07:58 < gonick> ya i think so, but i want to install Go anyway
07:58 < ziyu4huang> try add export PATH=$GOBIN:%PATH: in your .bashrc
07:59 < ziyu4huang> sorry , export PATH=$GOBIN:$PATH
07:59 < gonick> trying
08:01 < gonick> yahooooo i got it
08:01 < gonick> sorry Googleeeee i got it
08:02 < gonick> thank you very much ziyu4huang
08:02 < ziyu4huang> ;)
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10:52 < tav> morning all
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11:09 < peter-k> why so many in this but do not say a word
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11:10 < peter-k> why so many people in this room but don't say a word
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11:11 < peter-k> hey
11:11 < jessta> hey
11:11 < peter-k> are all of you sleeping ?
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11:11 < peter-k> ;)
11:11 < jessta> I was riding my bike long distances
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11:12 < jessta> but now I am back
11:12 < peter-k> wow
11:12 < peter-k> it seems it's daytime there ?
11:12 < peter-k> it's morning ?
11:12 < peter-k> you have a exerse
11:13 < peter-k> am i right ?
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11:15 < peter-k> a joke ,i made a joke
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11:18 < peter-k> nuts nuts lets go nuts
11:20 < peter-k> deperessed
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11:40 < uriel> peter-k: perhaps people are busy writing code?
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12:45 < hector> hello, anybody here?
12:45 < sladegen> no
12:46 < XniX23> hello
12:46 < hector> my windows port can now print hello and write to files.
just though people might be interested to know
12:47 < XniX23> hector: nice one :D
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12:48 < Rob_Russell> hector: cool
12:48 < hector> thank you.  the technical challenge was great, but i managed
to pull through.
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12:49 < hector> i haven't asked google to look at it yet, i wonder what
they'll think of it
12:49 < tsuwabuki> hello
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12:51 < XniX23> hector: does that mean it will soon be fully portable?  :)
12:51 -!- dobre_zlo [i=unixwiza@k-lined.info] has quit ["Lost terminal"]
12:52 < hector> XniX23: i'm not sure some of the unix concepts will
translate, but i hope common operations will be doable on windows, and the work
remaining is higher level so other people can help to speed things along
12:54 < Rob_Russell> hector: this is running under cygwin?
12:55 < hector> no, the tools are compiled using mingw
12:55 < hector> and msys
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12:55 < Rob_Russell> very cool
12:55 < hector> the resulting exes don't depend on cygwin or msys
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12:56 < s_mosher> hector, are you rewriting the syscall package?
12:58 < tsuwabuki> this?  http://code.google.com/p/golang-mingw/
12:58 < hector> no, syscalls aren't available on windows, and their
functions don't really map onto windows cleanly.  instead i wrote an api package
allowing go code to call windows functions.  i ported some of os.File to use the
api
12:59 < s_mosher> ah, so you're replacing its role with the api package?
12:59 < hector> tsuwabuki: http://code.google.com/r/hectorchu-go-windows/
12:59 < hector> s_mosher: yes
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13:01 < s_mosher> I guess that makes sense.  The trouble is standardizing
the api package, but I guess winapi makes it obvious?  (I've never used it so I'm
pretty ignorant here)
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13:02 < hector> yeah, api is supposed to be windows only
13:02 < hector> it's really just an implementation detail
13:03 < randomiser> is there any syntax highlighting support around yet?
13:03 < s_mosher> randomiser, yeah what's your poison?
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13:03 < s_mosher> there's some stuff packaged with the go stuff and
http://go-lang.cat-v.org/text-editors/
13:06 < randomiser> i don't mind, vim, eclipse plugin etc..
13:07 < randomiser> or gedit
13:07 < exch> randomiser: http://go-lang.cat-v.org/text-editors/
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13:08 < randomiser> cool, thanks s_mosher, exch
13:08 < s_mosher> vim is bundled (go/misc/vim/) and gedit is on cat-v
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13:09 < ziyu4huang> vim autoindent is broke in Go. Hope some vim guru can
write one ;)
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13:14 * uriel *sighs*
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13:18 < uriel> 12:46 < hector> my windows port can now print hello and
write to files.  just though people might be interested to know
13:18 < uriel> hector: awesome!
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13:20 < uriel> hector: do you have goroutines going yet?
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13:20 < hector> uriel: i just tried the prime sieve example and it worked
13:21 < hector> dunno whether that's taxing enough on the implementation
13:21 < uriel> well, it is something, nice!
13:21 < ziyu4huang> hector: well done.  I am glad you don't depend on
cygwin.  I really hate cygwin and prefer mingw
13:21 < hector> ziyu4huang: yes i agree completely
13:22 < hector> btw is it normal for the prime sieve example to only be
using one thread?
13:23 < uriel> yes, I think so
13:23 < s_mosher> hector, unless you up the max procs or the threads start
blocking it should stay in one thread
13:23 < uriel> in any case you need to set GOMAXPROCS
13:24 < hector> i think i'll need to invent an example program that uses
more than one thread to test thread creation
13:24 < s_mosher> hector, time.Sleep in a goroutine
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13:24 < hector> hmm, i don't think i got round to porting that yet
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13:25 < s_mosher> oh right
13:25 < s_mosher> you have i/o?  try reading from stdin in a goroutine
13:26 < hector> i'll have a look at that, thanks
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13:48 < exch> xml.Unmarshal throws a hissyfit over some XML escape sequences
:p ö <- culprit
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13:49 < KiNgMaR> ö is not XML ;) unless you loaded the matching dtd
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13:50 < exch> there is no DTD in the xml sheet.  it's part of a name in one
of the sections.
13:50 < KiNgMaR> then it's invalid XML
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13:51 < exch> mm wonder why it's escaped then.  most other xml readers i've
tried this on work fine with it
13:51 < exch> they even unescape it to it's proper representation
13:51 < exch> which is one of those o with umlaut characters
13:52 < KiNgMaR> yeah but XML without a DTD (such as XHTML 1.0 transitional)
only knows < > and "
13:52 < KiNgMaR> no other entities
13:52 < exch> hmm that could be a problem then
13:54 < KiNgMaR> (the proper way would be to set <?xml
encoding="UTF-8"?> (e.g.) and directly use ö instead of ö
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13:54 < exch> righty.  this means the source of the xml is at fault and I
should probably report a bug
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13:54 < exch> it has utf-8 set, but still choses to escape the sequence
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13:57 < exch> ah looks like I'm not the first one to notice this :p
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13:59 < BleSS> is there any group about go on usenet?
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14:01 < sanooj> usenet's dead man.  let it go.
14:01 < exch> nice.  it seems last.fm hsa woken up and supplies it's
websiervice in JSON format now as well
14:01 * exch investigates
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14:03 < BleSS> sanooj: I prefer the free usenet that anything propietary as
google grouos where you need a google account (and where it's necessary that yoy
give them your email to register yourself)
14:03 < BleSS> s/grouos/groups
14:04 < BleSS> sorry, it's necessary that you give them your *cell number*
to register yourself
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14:05 < Ycros> BleSS: I never gave anyone my cell number
14:05 < BleSS> Ycros: try it today ;)
14:05 < Ycros> seems like an extreme anti-spam measure
14:06 < sanooj> BleSS: I feel your pain.
14:07 < BleSS> I'm not going to give my cell number to any service over
internet and never to a service where your email is read through bots
14:08 < Ycros> BleSS: doesn't say anything about a cell number
14:09 < BleSS> it is showed after of that you register in the first page
14:09 < BleSS> when you click down, and it's all data it's correct
14:10 < Ycros> I'm past the first page, waiting for confirmation email
14:11 < BleSS> in my case, I didn't write a secondary email (it was left on
blank)
14:12 < Ycros> eh?  in my case an email is required
14:12 < Ycros> are these two different signup forms?
14:12 < BleSS> yes, but it can be left on blank
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14:13 < Ycros> then that's probably why they asked you for your cell number
instead
14:13 < BleSS> I'm going to try it with a secondary email
14:15 < Ycros> though google already has my number, since I setup SMS
notifications for google calendar
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14:20 < BleSS> Ycros: ok, then it's when you don't enter the secondary email
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14:25 < jordyd> Can cgo handle C macros?
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14:41 < uriel> jordyd: macros?  the preprocessor does that
14:41 < jordyd> Oh, yes :) I forgot...
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14:45 < engla> my question is..  how do you use C defined values as go const
values with cgo
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14:46 < engla> because const VAR = C.VAR won't work, C.VAR is not regarded a
constant value I think
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14:50 < exch> argh.  last.fm offers their service in JSON format as well
XML.  But the json code is a direct translation of the XML output.  Causing some
object keys to get names like "#text", which are impossible to map using
json.Unmarshal()
14:51 < exch> It would help if json.Unmarshal supported the field mapping
with attributes that xml.Unmarshal does
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14:59 < sanooj> isn't "#text" a valid field name in json?
15:00 < sanooj> oh, I see what you mean now.  *shrug*
15:00 < exch> yes, but not for a struct field in go
15:02 < exch> the xml unmarshaler allows you to set an XmlName attribute on
go fields, which tells the unmarshaler to map an xml node name to another struct
name.  That would be nice to have for json as well
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15:04 < exch> This wuold not strictly make sense for the json unmarshaler
though, so I can see why it is omitted.  The problem i'm having exists solely
because the json is generated from an xml tree
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15:05 < exch> <node>foobar</node> <- the foobar bit is added
to a json field name "#text"
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15:06 < Rob_Russell> why wouldn't field mapping make sense for the json
unmarshaler?  sounds like a worthwhile feature
15:06 < exch> if these kind of cases occur more often, then yes
15:07 < exch> it is certainly true that JSON allows field names to contain
characters illegal for go fields
15:07 < Rob_Russell> yeah, i think there are probably lots of cases out
there
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15:09 < Rob_Russell> right, and the unmarshaler is also case-insensitive
right now.  Doing field-mapping would also cover the occasional case where you
have Go variables X and x but want to control which is mapped to the json field
named x
15:09 < exch> true
15:09 < exch> it uses the reflection package though, which can only assign
to Public fields
15:09 < exch> at least according to the docs
15:10 < Rob_Russell> forgot about that
15:10 < Rob_Russell> okay Xone and XOne then ;)
15:10 < exch> hehe
15:12 < uriel> exch: ie., your problem is that lastfm people could not
design a sane api even if their lives depended on it *sigh*
15:12 < huf> especially note their treatment of timezones.
15:12 < uriel> anyway, why not just run the whole json through a regexp that
does s/#/_/ or somesuch?
15:12 < exch> apparently not really.  if json had field mapping, it wouldn't
be a problem
15:13 < uriel> hacks for the win!
15:13 < exch> uriel: yea im considering that
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15:13 < jordyd> Does cgo invoke the preprocessor before or after it converts
all the "C.*"s?
15:13 < exch> the fact that json allows illegal go field tokens in it's
field names is not the fault of the last.fm team :p
15:14 < uriel> jordyd: before, I'd expect
15:14 < Rob_Russell> i'd do the replacement thing to get your app running
sooner
15:14 < uriel> exch: that they convert stupid xml into json it is their
fault
15:14 < exch> true.  I would have done that differently
15:15 < exch> probably just done to satisfy all the ppl whining for json
without having to do too much reqriting of the service :p
15:15 < exch> *rewriting
15:15 < jordyd> uriel: So how does it handle macros that expand into very
complex segments of code?  I was under the impression that it could only know if
something was C code if it was prepended with "C.".
15:16 < uriel> ?
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15:16 < jordyd> Did I not make much sense there?
15:16 < exch> the C. bit is just syntactical sugar.  cgo translates that to
_C_xxx, which is defined in the c glue code it generates from the c header files
15:16 < uriel> cpp does the preprocessing I would think
15:16 < exch> the parsing of the actual c code is done by gcc
15:16 < exch> then it goes through cgo
15:17 < jordyd> Oh, I see.
15:17 < engla> exch: do you know how to take the value of a C #defined value
and use as a Go constant
15:18 < engla> or can I use module variables for that?
15:18 < engla> in effect, just copy in a series of defines into the go
wrapper
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15:18 < engla> where the defines are just ints
15:18 < exch> so far i've just copied all the constant values define in
header files and translated them into go constants
15:19 < exch> like '#define LUA_VERSION_NUM 501' becomes 'const(...
LUA_VERSION_NUM = 501 ...)'
15:20 < exch> it's a bit of work, but I think you can write a simple
replacement script to do that automatically if it's a lot of #defines
15:22 < engla> ok.  I don't like repeating definitions
15:22 < engla> I realize I should try just var ..  instead of const
15:22 < exch> cgo does not throw any errors when you do this:
http://gopaste.org/view/m9IRx
15:23 < exch> havn't tested if that actually carries over the value though
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15:23 < exch> oh it does
15:23 < exch> nice
15:23 < exch> If the constants need to be available outside of your package
you should wrap them though
15:24 < engla> ah.  I'll never have my way :-( I wanted to make the
constants "type Category int"
15:24 < engla> yeah that's the point
15:24 < engla> consts will be available, but vars not?
15:24 < exch> vars will be if you give them a capital first letter.  at
least they should be
15:24 < exch> same as with everything else defined private or public
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15:26 < engla> great.  it compiles, but now symbol lookup error: ./testsort:
undefined symbol: LC_ALL
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15:26 < engla> it's "var LC_ALL Category = Category(C.LC_ALL);"
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15:32 < solggi> blist
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15:32 < exch> hmm.  it sems cgo converts any reference to a C #define to a
pointer
15:32 < exch> that kinda messes things up
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15:33 < exch> seems you are stuck with copying the defines and translating
them to go code
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15:39 * exch still doesn't get why there is no strings.Replace() function
15:40 < exch> http://gopaste.org/view/EvdA4 <- fixed :p
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16:05 < sladegen> long live ed!
16:05 < uriel> amen!
16:05 * uriel almost had a fit when reading that issue
16:05 < uriel> just was talking with a friend the other day about how much
it pisses me off to find linux systems without ed
16:06 < uriel> it is an outrage
16:06 < sladegen> still atm i don't see ed used in the top files of go/src
16:06 < Zaba> ed is bloody useful in scripts
16:07 < sladegen> only sed...  still it's a silly issue.  what next?  drop
grep?
16:07 < exch> sed is your friend
16:07 < Zaba> sed doesn't have an in-place edit option on all systems.
16:09 < uriel> sed is great, ed is great, this is unix, each tool has its
place
16:10 < Zaba> sed is what you put into your pipe, ed is what you use on
files
16:11 * sladegen wouldn't be surprised if ed was part of POSIX...
16:11 < Zaba> it is
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16:11 < sergio> I see ed being used only in src/cmd/6l/mkenam
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16:22 < pilt> What's the best way to convert [512]bytes to a string?  I'm
using "str := bytes.NewBuffer(&buf).String();" at the moment.
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16:24 < s_mosher> pilt, that *should* be the best way.  if not, something's
wrong
16:25 < s_mosher> i.e.  if .String() is not good, why have it?
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16:30 < tor7> pilt: string(buf)
16:34 < pilt> ty
16:35 < Nanoo> s_mosher, afaik it's there because it's called by the print
functions
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16:36 < s_mosher> Nanoo, hm.  that's true.
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16:38 < s_mosher> hopefully it should still be good for other uses
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16:44 < msbranco_> a few questions if i may...
16:44 < msbranco_> when u have a function: func blah() (a int64, b int64)
16:45 < soul9> build error: http://gopaste.org/view/r9AX7
16:45 < msbranco_> or func blah2() (int64, int 64)
16:45 < soul9> anyone an idea?
16:45 < msbranco_> what is the actual difference, if any, in terms of naming
or not the return types...
16:45 < msbranco_> any specific difference?
16:45 < msbranco_> throughout the libraries I tend to see both usages
16:45 < msbranco_> and still fail to understand whether it's a matter of
style or something else
16:46 < msbranco_> or func blah2() (int64, int 64) ---> should be or func
blah2() (int64, int64)
16:46 < tor7> soul9: bug int today's commits.  do "hg update release"
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16:46 < soul9> ah, thanks
16:47 < scandal> msbranco_: mostly a matter of style.  it can be useful when
some of your return values get set early in the func
16:47 < exch> it has limitations though.  You can't take an address of a
named return value.  like &ret will not work
16:48 < msbranco_> ok thanks...  i was guessing so...
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16:48 < msbranco_> 2nd question: (and i think that's also a matter of style)
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16:49 < msbranco_> if u have a package, which constructs an interface..
then you attach (public) methods to that.  all fine so far.  but those methods
need some auxiliary methods (private)
16:49 < msbranco_> for the auxiliary methods
16:49 < msbranco_> do you also 'attach' them (sorry, don't know the proper
terminology) to the interface like func (a *SomeType) auxMethod()
16:50 < msbranco_> or do you do func auxMethod (a *SomeType)
16:50 < msbranco_> ?
16:50 < msbranco_> i also see both in the libraries...
16:50 < msbranco_> any side effects I'm missing here?
16:50 < exch> you can define any method on a type..  public or private..
the private one just won't be directly accessible from outside the package
16:51 < msbranco_> sure..  or I can pass the pointer as the 1st argument
since it's anyway private to the package
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16:51 < msbranco_> it's exactly the same for the compiler?  guess that's
what i'm asking.
16:52 < exch> not sure I understand what you are asking..
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16:52 < msbranco_> if there is any difference in making a auxiliary function
a private method on a type: such as func (a *SomeType) auxMethod()
16:53 < msbranco_> or just making it a normal function with a pointer as the
1st argument: func auxMethod (a *SomeType)
16:53 < exch> ah righty..  technically no
16:53 < ziyu4huang> msbranco_: there is no really difference
16:53 < msbranco_> ok cool.  Again, a matter of style
16:53 < msbranco_> thanks all
16:53 < exch> although if you bind it to the type specifically, you can
define the same method multiple times for different times
16:54 < exch> *different types
16:54 < msbranco_> good point!
16:54 < exch> sort of a poor man's funciton overloading
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16:55 < exch> I added a ReplaceAll() method to the pcre lib for anyone using
it.
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17:29 < nickjohnson> Is there a Protocol Buffer library yet, or is that a
future feature?
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17:32 < uriel> nickjohnson: rob said there is one at google, that will be
released as part of the new PB release
17:32 < uriel> nickjohnson: apparently there were unspecified issues with
releasing it, you should be able to find out ;)
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17:33 < uriel> nickjohnson: I'm sure that if you email rob or russ, they
will help you get a copy (you lucky bastard ;P)
17:33 < nickjohnson> ah
17:33 < nickjohnson> heh
17:33 < nickjohnson> I might experiment with Gobs in the meantime
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17:34 < uriel> gobs are go!
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17:35 < uriel> rob said some stuff about how go made it easier to build PB
bindings, so it seems building PB based apps is osmething they had in mind for go
17:36 < uriel> (btw, the implementation might even be part already of
whatever inhouse tree of pb implementations you have, but you might have checked
this already..)
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17:48 < nickjohnson> uriel: Quite likely, but I want to use it in a blog
post :)
17:48 < thomastim> juego de boxeo online
http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html
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17:49 < nickjohnson> "Interfaces, functions, and channels cannot be sent in
a gob." <- does this mean that if I have a struct with a member that is
specified as an interface, I can't send that struct as a gob?
17:49 < nickjohnson> Eg, only static types are supported?
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18:27 < gigatropolis> is there an example of a simple client server for
tcp/////ip sockets in Go?
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18:48 < uriel> gigatropolis: there is no much to it, use net.Dial() or
net.Listen() and you get something to read/write from,
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18:51 < dho> gigatropolis: see pkg/net, pkg/http
18:52 < gigatropolis> sounds too easy
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18:53 < gigatropolis> thanks, I'll give it a try
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19:05 < JPascal> Hello all!
19:05 < gigatropolis> hi
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19:06 < JPascal> How serialize array in a file?  Go have any functions?
19:06 < uriel> drusepth: how did the presentation go?
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19:07 < drusepth> hrmmm?
19:07 < uriel> JPascal: depends, there is gob, or you can use json, or
probably a few other ways
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19:10 < JPascal> i want array to file and restore from file
19:10 < uriel> again, gob or json would probably be the way to go
19:11 < JPascal> hm...  ok.
19:12 < Amaranth> There is nothing automatic, if that's what you're looking
for
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19:14 < uriel> the gob and json packages are quite 'automatic' not sure what
else would you want
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19:14 < JPascal> Amaranth: thx ) I understood
19:14 < Amaranth> uriel: I meant like something built in to the language
19:14 < Amaranth> like myarray.Serialize("file.txt") or something
19:14 < JPascal> :)
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19:15 < uriel> Amaranth: I dont know, seems close enough to me
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19:16 < Amaranth> I actually don't see a way to turn an array into a json
string
19:16 < Amaranth> It looks like it only consumes json
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19:16 < JPascal> json not a variant
19:18 < Amaranth> ?
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19:24 < twhitbeck> anybody willing to help me understand multiple file
compilation in go?
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19:27 < s_mosher> twhitbeck, are you just trying to build a single program
in multiple files?
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19:29 < Amaranth> I just want to figure out how to make a build system that
detect 8c vs 6c vs 5c :)
19:29 < Amaranth> I guess just see which are installed
19:29 < Amaranth> except you can have multiple installed for cross building
19:29 < s_mosher> Amaranth, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in the
sense that "you're always cross-compiling"
19:30 < Amaranth> eh?
19:30 < s_mosher> well, I've got 5g installed for example
19:30 < exch> $GOARCH ?
19:30 < s_mosher> I might want to target an armlinux system
19:30 < scandal> Amaranth: you can just add: include
$(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH)
19:31 < Amaranth> You shouldn't depend on environment variables like that
19:31 < Amaranth> If it is set use it otherwise figure out a default
19:31 < scandal> well, tell the Go developers ;)
19:31 < Amaranth> I'm going to have to
19:31 < scandal> that's how their makesfiles work
19:31 < s_mosher> otoh, I'm not arguing that a command that targets the host
arch is a bad idea, it would be convenient
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19:31 < Amaranth> Go cannot be included in Debian/Ubuntu until it stops
using these variables
19:32 < s_mosher> actually I kind of like specifying architecture as a
switch rather than by compiler name
19:32 < JBeshir> Amaranth: Wrap them with shell scripts
19:32 < Amaranth> JBeshir: Right that'll help with getting Go itself
packaged but not with building things that use it
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19:33 < Amaranth> I could just make /usr/bin/goc be a symlink based on your
arch in the packaging but that makes my project only work on Debian/Ubuntu systems
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19:35 < Amaranth> Packaging Go is going to be tricky anyway because I need
to have packages for each build suite on every arch
19:36 < exch> packagaing any app for all distro's is a pain in the ass :p
19:36 < Amaranth> I suppose I could just check for x86_64 in uname for x86
32-bit vs 64-bit and forget about ARM :)
19:37 < Amaranth> and forget everything but Linux
19:37 < exch> make sure you check it for Darwin as well to satisfy the mac
people
19:38 < Amaranth> of course this would all be rather easy if they'd drop the
silly naming and use goc or whatever on every arch instead of these numbers
19:38 < nickjohnson> Is there an equivalent of Vector.Do for lists?
19:38 < Amaranth> nickjohnson: a for loop
19:38 < nickjohnson> Amaranth: bah
19:39 < s_mosher> Amaranth, I kind of think that you should package all
compilers
19:39 < Amaranth> s_mosher: Right, I plan to
19:39 < s_mosher> oh maybe I misunderstood
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19:40 < Amaranth> That's the only advantage the current system has, easy
cross compiling for other arch
19:40 < XniX23> how can i do something like this?  if (n:=5 && n > 3) {
blabla }
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19:40 < Amaranth> XniX23: That's always going to be true
19:41 < XniX23> Amaranth: yes, but it doesnt compile
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19:41 < scandal> XniX23: if n:=5; n >3 {}
19:41 < nbaum> XniX23: "blabla".  But in general, "if n := something; n >
3 { blablah }".
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19:43 < XniX23> hmmm scandal, nbaum: if (_,present := m["pi"]; present !=
false) { fmt.Printf("blabla"); } wont compile
19:43 < XniX23> nevermind...  i should've had those braces
19:44 < XniX23> shouldn't
19:45 < s_mosher> XniX23, yeah parens can only enclose single statements
iirc
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19:46 < szymon_g> hi
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19:46 < szymon_g> could someone suggest me a tutorial for Go for beginners
(= non-programmers)?
19:47 < Amaranth> szymon_g: Doesn't exist
19:47 < XniX23> szymon_g: start with C
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19:47 < XniX23> szymon_g: once you understand how arrays work & pointers try
Go tutorial on their website
19:47 < szymon_g> XniX23, thanx, but i'm not enough clever to do it (i.e.
C). python seems much easier for me ;p
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19:47 < dagle2> Start with C? People that start with C tend to write bad C.
19:48 < XniX23> szymon_g: you are, you just need to practice ;P
19:48 < vegai> you already know python?  Why do you call yourself a
non-programmer?
19:48 < s_mosher> dagle2, >:(
19:48 < szymon_g> hehe ;p
19:48 < XniX23> dagle2: why would that be?
19:48 < dagle2> szymon_g: Stackless python is a good choice.
19:48 < szymon_g> vegai, i can do 'hello world' in python, so it's rather
hard to call me 'programmer' ;p
19:48 < szymon_g> 'stackless python' o.O?
19:49 < dagle2> XniX23: Because they learn how to code but not how to
program.
19:49 < dagle2> szymon_g: Python with channels etc.
19:49 < XniX23> szymon_g: i think python is pretty good to begin with, coz
you can start thinking like a programmer fast
19:49 < jordyd> I agree.
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19:54 < szymon_g> ok, thanx guys
19:54 < szymon_g> bye
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19:54 < alexsuraci> uriel: I thought the last 3 paragraphs under the "Plan 9
from Google Labs" here was timely as per our discussion ;)
http://bitbucket.org/fusiongyro/dupfinder/wiki/notes_about_Go
19:55 < alexsuraci> (nice writeup overall for anyone interested)
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19:59 < kmc> i don't see why people who want to learn Go should learn C
first
19:59 < jordyd> Pointers & arrays.
20:00 <+danderson> they shouldn't have to.  C is just one of the closest
relatives of Go in the language space
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20:00 < kmc> two of the main distinguishing features of C are lack of safety
and manual memory management
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20:00 < nbaum> And surprise.
20:00 <+danderson> getting pointers is indeed a good idea, and traditionally
C has been the vehicle to do that
20:00 < s_mosher> kmc, I think it is because going from C to Go will feel
liberating
20:00 < kmc> also two of the reasons why beginners often write terrible C
20:00 <+danderson> but honestly, with Go you can mostly ignore pointers
20:01 <+danderson> java programmers do this successfully with the pass by
reference that occurs all over the place
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20:01 <+danderson> that's not hard to grasp.  What is hard to grasp for a
beginning programmer is pointer arithmetic
20:01 < kmc> i don't see how Go's pointers are like C's in any meaningful
way
20:01 <+danderson> and Go doesn't have any.
20:02 < kmc> it seems like Go's pointers are more like object references in
most high-level OO languages
20:02 < kmc> like, for example, Python
20:02 < s_mosher> danderson, I've noticed that I can ignore whether or not
I'm using a pointer almost always, and even when I do, I can subsequently forget
about it
20:02 < s_mosher> (in go)
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20:02 < kmc> and yeah, in Go you don't even have the syntactic difference
between x.f and x->f
20:02 <+danderson> yup
20:02 < jordyd> kmc: You don't realize they exist in Python, though.  In Go
you have to explicitly declare them as pointers.
20:03 < nickjohnson> If I define "type foo Bar", and I have a variable of
type foo, how can I cast it back so I can use methods of type Bar on it?
20:03 < kmc> jordyd, if you're programming in Python you'd better understand
that objects are passed and copied by reference
20:03 <+danderson> so in fact, they are closer to Java/Python references.
The hard bits (as well as security problems) are excised by the lack of pointer
arithmetic.
20:04 < jordyd> Perhaps then we should recommend newbies are familiar with
Python or Java first?
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20:04 <+danderson> I'm not sure I see why that should be a prerequisite
either.
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20:04 < alathon> I suppose the problem in that is that the crowd Go is
trying to appeal to doesn't seem to be the type that occupies itself with
Python/Java
20:04 <+danderson> Python doesn't suggest you learn Java first to understand
pass-by-reference
20:04 < kmc> it's silly to require some other specific language
20:05 < jordyd> danderson: The Go tutorials don't really explain things
clearly enough for non-programmers.
20:05 < alathon> But its a recommendation in any case, not a prerequisite.
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20:05 < kve> "22:00 < kmc> i don't see why people who want to learn Go
should learn C first" at the moment it's probably mostly because there aint a Go
tutorial that would teach anyone to program who has not done so already with some
language
20:05 < kmc> kve, sure, but C is a terrible beginner's language
20:05 < exch> there are countles articles out there to explain the
fundamentals of programming.  I don't think it's go's job to do that
20:05 < alathon> Well, writing beginning programmer tutorials is a whole
different beast than writing a tutorial to elaborate on syntax specification.
20:05 <+danderson> jordyd: I think that problem needs to be fixed with more
newbie-friendly documentation, not by adding prerequisites to the existing doc.
20:05 < exch> besides.  Those fundamentals are applicable to /all/ languages
20:05 < nickjohnson> exch: Not all languages.  Pure functiona
20:05 < s_mosher> jordyd, I think you're making the important point here:
there's no "guide to programming (using go)" in existence
20:06 < nickjohnson> er, functional languages don't have to worry about
pass-by-reference semantics
20:06 < jordyd> danderson: Yes, I agree.  It would make a great beginner's
language then.
20:06 <+danderson> The existing docs are excellent for anyone with good
knowledge of a couple of other languages (which is what you really should aspire
to in order to gain deeper understanding of things anyway)
20:06 <+danderson> I don't think it specifically matters which other
languages you know
20:06 < alathon> I think its an important point, but I'm pretty certain that
won't have to come from Google.
20:06 < kmc> nickjohnson, they have explicit types for references
20:06 <+danderson> as long as you're over the hump of learning your first
and second languages
20:06 < kmc> the reference is passed by value
20:06 < alathon> But will come by itself from publishers who dabble in
writing books of that sort.
20:06 <+danderson> picking up more is relatively easy
20:06 < jordyd> Perhaps we should throw together a "Beginning Programming
with Go"
20:06 <+danderson> jordyd: that would be great!
20:07 < jordyd> Or perhaps: "Go Start Programming"
20:07 < nickjohnson> kmc: eh?
20:07 <+danderson> more documentation for different skill levels would be
most welcome.
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20:07 < goplexian> is there a way to remove items from map?
20:07 < nickjohnson> In Erlang, at least, you don't pass references as I
recall.
20:07 < kmc> nickgibbon, "reference to cell holding values of type foo" is a
type in Haskell and ML
20:07 < kmc> err nickjohnson
20:07 < nickjohnson> Does anyone know how I cast between Foo and Bar if I
have "type Foo Bar"?
20:08 < kuroneko> mornign gang
20:08 < alathon> jordyd: I'm not sure its prominent to do that until
everything is finalized, although I suppose things are mostly in place.
20:08 < jordyd> I don't believe that Go will be widely used unless it picks
up support for C callbacks, though.  Without them we are missing a lot of
libraries.
20:08 < nickjohnson> kmc: It's not in Erlang
20:08 < kmc> okay
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20:08 < s_mosher> nickjohnson, baz.(Bar)
20:08 < jordyd> alathon: Yes, I'd have to agree with you on that.
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20:08 < kmc> (ML isn't "pure" functional, anyway)
20:08 < nickjohnson> s_mosher: Gives me "invalid type assertion foo.(*Bar)
(non-interface type *Foo on left)"
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20:08 < s_mosher> oh
20:09 < kmc> regardless of how you handle side effects, it's nice to have
references as first-class values, rather than passing other values invisibly "by
reference"
20:09 < s_mosher> I forget how you're supposed to dereference it
20:09 < s_mosher> in that case
20:09 < kmc> and that's what pointers give you too
20:09 < jordyd> alathon: Perhaps a wiki would do.  It would allow for
updates as the language changes.
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20:10 < alathon> jordyd: Aye, a wiki wouldn't be a bad idea.
20:10 < goplexian> I'm iterating through a map I'd like to remove a value
from the map.  Assigning that index value to nil doesn't work.  How should I do
that?  Docs say that values can be added or removed from maps, but doesn't say how
to remove.
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20:11 < jordyd> s_mosher: You dereference by prepending a *
20:11 < nickjohnson> jordyd: I'm asking how to convert between two struct
types Foo and Bar such that "type Foo Bar"
20:11 < nickjohnson> Not pointer dereferencing
20:11 < XniX23> goplexian: m["blabla"] = 0, false;
20:11 < jordyd> nickjohnson: Oh :).  I guess I should know better than to
jump into the middle of a conversation.
20:12 < nickjohnson> jordyd: No idea, then?
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20:12 < s_mosher> nickjohnson, wait, I thought your problem the result of
using a pointer to the type
20:12 < goplexian> XniX23, perfect thank you
20:13 < s_mosher> maybe paste the code somewhere?
20:13 < nickjohnson> s_mosher: I don't think so
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20:14 < nickjohnson> s_mosher: There's practically nothing to paste: Just
"type Foo Bar; a_bar = a_foo.(*Bar)"
20:14 < s_mosher> and you're trying to pass it to something that wants type
Bar then?
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20:14 < s_mosher> or just assign it...  I see.
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20:15 < nickjohnson> Trying to ssign it gives "routingtable.go:54: cannot
use bv (type *bucketVector) as type vector.Vector"
20:16 < s_mosher> I haven't even thought about doing cross type stuff
without interfaces
20:16 < s_mosher> longshot: does enclosing it like {a_foo} help?
20:16 < nickjohnson> The basic problem is this: I have a vector.Vector, and
I want to sort it by a custom sort function.  How do I do that?
20:16 < nickjohnson> s_mosher: What sort of syntax is that?  :/
20:16 < nickjohnson> s/sort function/comparison function/
20:17 < s_mosher> abused literal syntax
20:17 < s_mosher> not likely to work, obv
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20:25 < Ibw> GTK bindings yet?
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20:26 < nickjohnson> Ah, the solution is to define a new struct with a
single anonymous vector field and define methods on that
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20:27 < nbaum> Ibw: I don't think so.
20:27 < Ibw> Fantastic.  I was going to work on it, but I was away from my
comp for a while.  Was worried someone went in and did it already.
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20:28 < mxpxpod> Ibw: I attempted some bindings for gio and gobject...  it
gets tricky since go doesn't support OO inheritance
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20:28 < s_mosher> nickjohnson, ah, for some reason I was thinking that the
definition you had used would have all the effects of the struct with anonymous
field
20:28 < s_mosher> it seems a bit odd that the behaviour there is different
20:28 < nbaum> mxpxpod: Seems odd.  Neither does C.
20:29 < mxpxpod> nbaum: right, which is why you have gobject ;)
20:29 < nickjohnson> s_mosher: It does a bit, but oh well
20:29 < Ibw> mxpxpod: Ya. You have to, if you're going C++ to go, make C
wrappers in between
20:29 < Ibw> And that's hard without OOP
20:30 < spikebike> anyone know where bugs to gccobj should be posted?
20:30 < spikebike> google code tracker?
20:30 < spikebike> gcc website?
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20:31 < alexsuraci> hmm, the regexp package seems to have become broken
20:31 < XniX23> how can i update my Go?
20:31 < alexsuraci> `^/$` matches on "/css", yielding "s" now
20:32 < alexsuraci> perhaps it's the `/`.
20:32 < alexsuraci> nope, escaping it causes the match to fail even when it
should succeed.  hmm.
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20:34 < Ibw> XniX23: What do you mean?
20:34 < nickjohnson> What makes rules does gotest expect?
20:34 < Ibw> XniX23: Just check out a new copy from the repos and build it
again
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20:38 < ehird> argh, it annoys me how if I do "foo, err := ..." in some
scope to declare err there, foo declares too and doesn't propagate above
20:38 < ehird> so i have to do
20:38 < ehird> var err os.Error;
20:38 < ehird> foo, err = ...
20:38 < jordyd> Ibw: It's also tricky to implement GTK callbacks, as you
can't yet call into Go functions from C.
20:39 < XniX23> lbw: i hoped there is some faster way :D
20:39 < Ibw> jordyd: Yes, that's what I've been thinking about
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20:39 < jordyd> Ibw: Plus, it seems cgo chokes on complex macros.
20:40 < nickjohnson> Can _anyone_ tell me how to use gotest?
20:40 < Ibw> http://golang.org/cmd/gotest/
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20:41 < nickjohnson> Ibw: That page makes no mention of required make rules,
but gotest seems to expect them
20:42 < Ibw> Hmm, the os package source does something with gotest.  Maybe
you can look at its makefiles
20:42 < Ibw> *Makefile
20:43 < nickjohnson> Really hoping not to have to reverse engineer the whole
thing :(
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20:51 < Ibw> How well do goroutines work across cores on multicore
processors?
20:52 < Ibw> As in, is Go optimized for multicore processors?
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20:53 < Ibw> Hmm, much less activity here than there used to be
20:54 < Ibw> I guess that sort of makes sense.  This channel was crazy even
several days after Go's public release
20:55 < clip9> what replaces bytes.Copy?
20:55 < scandal> copy()
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20:55 < clip9> hm..  ok same syntax?
20:56 < scandal> dest slice goes first
20:56 < clip9> ok
20:56 < clip9> ty
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20:56 < mxpxpod> what would a void* in C translate to in go?
20:56 < scandal> mxpxpod: interface{}
20:56 < mxpxpod> scandal: oh, ok
20:57 < mxpxpod> scandal: even if I'm wrapping?
20:57 < scandal> not sure about that.  cgo docs are sketchy
20:57 < scandal> you probably want unsafe.Pointer, though
20:57 < mxpxpod> scandal: ok, thanks
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20:58 < boscop> does go scale well?
20:59 < scandal> the language is still experimental.  not much has been done
in terms of optimization.
21:01 * alexsuraci is an issue filing machine
21:01 < alexsuraci> 3 in the last 24 hours :P
21:01 < boscop> there are many people in this channel for such a young
language
21:01 < nbaum> How many would be appropriate?
21:01 < scandal> 3 :)
21:01 < jordyd> If I have s := "a b", does strings.Split(s, " ", 0) return
{"a","","","","","b"}, or {"a","b"}?
21:01 < nbaum> jordyd: Indeed.
21:02 < boscop> I don't know.  but in the #d channel are only 91 and it
exists some more years
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21:02 < jordyd> nbaum: Indeed what?
21:03 < XniX23> alexsuraci: good work.  ;)
21:03 < exch> > s := "a b"; fmt.Printf("%+v", strings.Split(s, " ", 0));
21:03 < rndbot> [a b]
21:03 < exch> > s := "a b"; fmt.Printf("%#v", strings.Split(s, " ", 0));
21:03 < rndbot> []string{"a", "", "", "", "", "b"}
21:03 < Ibw> boscop: I suspect the Go channel will eventually settle down to
something more reasonable as well.  It's so new, and created by Google, of course
many people are going to flock to the IRC to check things out
21:03 < exch> yup :p
21:03 < XniX23> true
21:04 < jordyd> Cool.
21:04 < spikebike> alexsuraci: on 6g or gccgo?
21:04 < XniX23> maybe after it gets gtk bindings things will get better
*looks at lbw* :)
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21:04 < alexsuraci> spikebike: i'm on 6g
21:05 < spikebike> ah, I'm trying to figure out where to file gccgo bugs
21:05 < alexsuraci> i think they're fine at the main tracker
21:05 < alexsuraci> dunno though
21:06 < spikebike> I started filling it out, but then it asks for the
mercurial version
21:06 < spikebike> and the contents of the environment variables that only
effect 6g
21:06 < Ibw> Don't forget 8g
21:06 < spikebike> when 4 of the questions don't apply I start to worry
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21:06 < spikebike> heh 8g as well
21:08 < alexsuraci> spikebike: true
21:08 < jordyd> How do I delete a value in a slice?
21:09 < jordyd> Is it like a map?
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timed out)]
21:11 < scandal> jordyd: no.  you have to shift elements to fill the gap.
alternatively, use container/vector
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21:13 < jordyd> scandal: Thanks.
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21:15 < jlouis> You probably want another kind of data structure than a
slice
21:16 < jlouis> if you value performance
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21:27 < nickjohnson> Why would I get "routingtable_test.go:16: cannot use
&contact (type *TestContact) as type *Contact" when TestContact implements the
Contact interface?
21:29 < nickjohnson> Ah, because interfaces are pointer types, of course
21:30 < timmcd> hehe
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21:34 < Ibw> Is there a way to recieve channels without blocking?
21:35 < scandal> use select, or ok = <-ch
21:36 < scandal> select when you need to use multiple channels, otherwise
use the second
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21:44 < Nick1> cgo tells me "unexpected type: ..." when I run cgo on
http://gist.github.com/240738
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21:53 < Ibw> Binding GTK to go is going to be hard than I thought
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21:54 < Ibw> (not related to the channel question)
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22:00 < Amaranth> lifeless: Did you ever get a build system sorted out for a
Go program?
22:02 < drhodes> Ibw: Gtk uses main event loop right?  Do you see any
problems with goroutines playing nicely with it?
22:03 < Ibw> drhodes: Hmm, not particularly.  The biggest problem I have is
getting cgo to play nicely with callback functions.  I think.
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22:04 < nickjohnson> Grah, I wish superfluous imports weren't an error
22:05 -!- Null-A [n=jason@65-119-47-100.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:05 < abbyz> how do i convert a byte array to string?
22:05 < timmcd> string([]bytes)
22:05 < alexsuraci> now gopaste parses/prettyprints pastes at /all in
parallel :D
22:06 -!- mkanat [n=mkanat@c-67-188-1-39.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:06 < Amaranth> I think GTK+ combined with goroutines is going to be
painful
22:07 < Null-A> man, javascript v8 is wayyy faster than python on the
benchmarks game.  That's crazy.
22:07 < Null-A> They're both dynamic languages..  is there any design reason
why this is so?
22:07 < Amaranth> Every goroutine is going to have to call
threads_enter/threads_leave on the off chance that the goroutine will end up on a
different kernel thread
22:07 < abbyz> timmcd: thanks!  i did just that, but it says- cannot convert
buf (type [2048]uint8) to type string in conversion
22:08 < Amaranth> Null-A: There are some stupid things you can do in Python
that make it really hard to go fast
22:08 < Null-A> lol, imagine that
22:08 < Null-A> Amaranth: what is it?
22:08 < Amaranth> like redefining everything
22:08 < timmcd> abbyz: Hmm, I believe thats how I did it...
22:08 < Amaranth> you can create a lambda then redefine stuff it uses before
you call it
22:09 < Null-A> well seems like a stupid design decision if this is so
22:09 < Amaranth> like the len function
22:09 < Null-A> hm
22:09 -!- timmcd [n=Adium@97-117-100-106.slkc.qwest.net] has left #go-nuts []
22:09 < Null-A> go is pretty awesome
22:10 < Null-A> It's helping wonders for my experiments with distributed
systems.
22:10 < Ibw> Do the members of a struct also need to be capitalized to be
exported?  Or is the cap/no-cap rule only for top level things?
22:10 < gl> yes
22:11 < Ibw> erm
22:11 < Ibw> me?
22:11 < gl> wrong window, sorry :)
22:11 < Ibw> oh
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22:15 < Amaranth> Ibw: Looks like yes
22:15 < Amaranth> Public structs in the default pkgs have capitals for their
fields, anyway
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22:18 < offby1> in changeset: 4186:2f32e74ab96e, the build breaks: 8l -o cgo
_go_.8 / exec·Run: undefined: runtime·arraytoslice / hash_remove_n: undefined:
mmov
22:18 < offby1> any workaround?
22:19 < offby1> I'm so ignorant of mercurial that I don't know how to find
the commit that broke things
22:19 < Null-A> offby1: I have an error message about mmov that was
introduced because I did an upgrade, but not a clean build
22:19 < clip9> run clean.bash
22:20 < offby1> Null-A, clip9: aha, thanks.  How do I do that?
22:20 < clip9> in src
22:20 < clip9> $ ./clean.bash
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22:21 < offby1> thanks
22:21 -!- Null-A [n=jason@65-119-47-100.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit []
22:21 < offby1> (actually, I thought ./all.bash -was- doing a clean build
all the time)
22:21 < Amaranth> It does a sort-of-clean
22:21 < Amaranth> It doesn't clean up generated files, iirc
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22:23 < offby1> got it
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22:25 < westymatt_> Ok i know what the interfaces are, but is there good
code that isn't too complex to see how they are practically used?
22:25 < offby1> the completely-clean build is so fast that it might as well
be the default
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22:28 < ehird> westymatt_: see "effective go".
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22:30 < Ibw> Is there an easy way to create atoms?
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22:31 < nightmouse> Can anyone explain why a semicolon is needed on line 20
of the echo example: http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html#tmp_44
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22:32 < Ibw> Because you need to separate that function call from the
following variable initialization.  Semicolons are "separators" and thus need to
be between any two calls to separate them
22:32 < Ibw> Newlines won't do it
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22:33 < Ibw> The reason it's not needed on line 29 is because there is
nothing after that call that needs separating from
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22:33 < Ibw> 31 doesn't really need one
22:33 < exch> you can really only omit them after the last expression of any
scope block.
22:33 < Ibw> nor does 16
22:33 -!- franklin_ [n=franklin@189-46-84-144.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Client
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22:33 < Ibw> right, what exch said
22:33 < nightmouse> oh ok, thank you
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22:33 < cylix> Has the naming issue been resolved regarding another language
called "GO!" yet or is that for the future?  Just curious myself.
22:33 < Ibw> And top level anythings don't need them
22:33 < ehird> cylix: it isn't going to be changed
22:34 < ehird> almost certainly
22:34 < westymatt_> ehird:how do i say this variable uninitialized will be a
[]SomeIntefaceOjbect, and how do i say that this function will return an array of
SomeInterfaceObject?
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22:34 < ehird> westymatt_: how do you think?
22:35 < cylix> ehird, Got you.  So Y don't they remove the issue or mark it
won't fix or something.  I really don't care.  I just started playing with go and
that was the first thing on the issue list.  :-)
22:35 < westymatt_> ehird: var x []MyInterface; ?
22:35 < ehird> cylix: Because it's just a bunch of people whining, and
explicitly saying "no, we're not changing the name; you can't own an english word"
will just make people whine more
22:35 < ehird> I imagine they have better things to do
22:35 < ehird> westymatt_: Yep.
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22:36 < cylix> ehird, right got you :-)
22:36 < westymatt_> ehird: func cheeseburger() []MyInterface {} ?
22:36 < ehird> cylix: I don't have any authority or anything, but I'm pretty
sure that's the case
22:36 < ehird> westymatt_: *nod*
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22:37 < Amaranth> Ibw: How do you plan on handling GTK+ subclasses in your
binding?
22:37 < cylix> ehird, I figured.  Thanks for your thoughts.  :-)
22:38 < westymatt_> ehird: ok i have a struct that implements methods that
satisfy the interface, but when i assign to the variable i previously wrote as var
x MyInterface; it gives me an error the i cannot use MyStruct as MyInterface
22:38 < Amaranth> I guess they're technically just doing composition in the
background but that's probably still doing to be painful to map to Go
22:38 < Ibw> Amaranth: GTK+ doens't have subclasses.  It's C
22:38 < Ibw> *doesn't
22:38 < Ibw> wait
22:38 < ehird> it does
22:38 < ehird> gtk+ is c with gobject
22:38 < Ibw> yup, I just realized that
22:38 < ehird> it implements objects and classes in c in the most horrible
way you could imagine
22:39 < Amaranth> heh
22:39 < Amaranth> It's composition wrapped in magic
22:39 < ehird> westymatt_: that's correct
22:39 < ehird> westymatt_: interfaces are just so you can have them as
parameters and return values
22:39 < westymatt_> oh how do i say function returns an array of things that
implement an interface?
22:39 < Ibw> Gtk is such a pain.  Anyway, I won't.  I'll just go through and
give every "class" its own set of functions by hand.
22:39 < ehird> westymatt_: []SomeInterface
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22:40 < westymatt_> got that part
22:40 < Amaranth> Ibw: That will make using GTK+ harder
22:40 < Ibw> Amaranth: Not for the end user, I don't think.  Go interfaces
make things really easy
22:40 < Amaranth> Ibw: How do I pass a GtkToggleButton to something that
wants a GtkButton?
22:40 < Ibw> Amaranth: Interfaces
22:40 < Amaranth> Ibw: In that case you can rely on Go composition as well
so you don't have to duplicate everything
22:41 < Amaranth> Go is basically doing the same thing as GObject just with
language support
22:41 < Amaranth> heck, the more I think about it the more that seems true
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22:42 < Amaranth> GObject doesn't do multiple inheritance, it does a class
implementing several interfaces
22:43 < Amaranth> Although I'm sure you'll run into some cases where it
doesn't map correct
22:43 < ehird> go's interfaces are only unique by being implicit.
22:43 < Amaranth> +ly
22:43 < Amaranth> ehird: The composition is automatic too
22:43 < ehird> no, go composition is explicit.
22:44 < General13372> hey
22:44 < General13372> I'm confused on how you use Time in Go
22:44 < Amaranth> With GObject C if you have a GtkToggleButton and want to
call a GtkButton method on it you have to call gtk_button_foo and cast the
GtkToggleButton to GtkButton (which just pulls the GtkButton out of the
GtkToggleButton struct)
22:44 < Amaranth> With Go you just call toggle_button.Foo()
22:44 < General13372> I want to retrieve the localtime in a way I can call
Day separately, The current time, the year, etc all separately.  It throws it at
me in a map, I have no idea how to call it though
22:49 < westymatt_> ok; var x = []SomeInterface; x =
make([]IntefaceImplementor, 0);
22:49 < westymatt_> that doesn't seem to work, it's an illegal assignment
22:49 < westymatt_> var x []SomeInterface; (whoops)
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23:02 < General13372> func (t *Time) String() string
23:02 < General13372> how do I call this?
23:03 < jordyd> some_time_object.String()
23:03 < General13372> gah im an idiot
23:03 < General13372> thank you
23:03 < jordyd> Welcome.
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23:21 < hector> hey i've compiled go for Windows would anyone be interested
in trying it out?
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23:23 < s_mosher> you don't happen to have linux cross compilers that target
windows do you?
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23:24 < hector> at the moment i have compilers that run on windows that
target windows, and maybe linux and darwin (not tested)
23:24 < hector> i think compilers can be built that run on linux too that
target windows
23:24 < Amaranth> hmm, I wonder how you'd handle GTK+ reference counting
23:25 < Amaranth> Hrm, if you build with GOOS=windows on Linux will you get
a linux binary that builds windows apps?
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23:26 < hector> not too sure, i'm not going to try but someone could clone
my repository and have a look
23:26 < jordyd> hector: Where?
23:27 < hector> http://code.google.com/r/hectorchu-go-windows/
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23:27 < Amaranth> hector: Can it do more than build and run an empty main
yet?
23:27 < lifeless> Amaranth: well, you'd want a thunk object tht takes a gtk+
ref, and drops it in its finalizer
23:27 < hector> yes, i added enough support today to be able to run most of
the sample programs in the go tutorial
23:27 < XniX23> does code.google give you free repository?
23:27 < lifeless> Amaranth: for the reverse it will be a little more
complex, but conceptually similar
23:28 < hector> XniX23: i think so
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23:28 < Amaranth> lifeless: object?  :)
23:28 < Amaranth> hector: networking?
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23:28 < hector> Amaranth: networking has not been implemented
23:29 < Amaranth> dang :)
23:29 < hector> should be easy to add for someone determined enough, i hope
this will happen over time once i'm able to get the code into the main repo
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23:31 < hector> are most people on here using linux?
23:32 < jordyd> hector: I think so (or darwin).  I doubt many would hang
around if they weren't using Go.
23:32 < dagle2> Think so.
23:32 < nbaum> Most of the ones using Go, I suspect.
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23:33 < s_mosher> probably.  I'm interested in windows support for go to the
extent that some of my friends want me to write code for them sometimes
23:33 < hector> i got a new lappy last month, was going to put karmic on it
but tried win7 for the hell of it and quite liked it
23:34 < hector> also karmic seems to have problems writing to my usb pen
drive
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23:35 < hector> i hope go doesn't turn out the same way plan 9 did
23:36 < poe> s_mosher get a shell on a unix machine :)
23:37 < jordyd> To make a package, is it just compile, link, gopack?
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23:37 < nickjohnson> Are there reader/writer implementations in the standard
library that read and write internal buffers?
23:38 < s_mosher> poe - ? I used to have literally thousands.  it's cross
compiling to windows from those unix machines that is the problem
23:38 < hector> jordyd: you just need a makefile with the right stuff in it.
see http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
23:39 < poe> s_mosher misunderstood
23:39 < jordyd> hector: Thanks.  I'm surprised they put it in the
"contributing" section, though.
23:39 < General13372> missing key in map literal - What does this error
mean?
23:39 < jamuraa> is there an easier way to catch os.EINVAL from strconv.Atoi
other than unpacking the NumError with a conversion operator?
23:39 < hector> jordyd: yeah i found it by accident a few minutes ago
23:39 < Amaranth> hector: It's hard for a programming language to end up
like an OS :)
23:39 < jordyd> Amaranth: lol
23:40 < Amaranth> an OS needs lots of marketshare and mindshare to get
anywhere, a programming language just needs enough users to keep it maintained
23:40 < jordyd> Amaranth: What happened to Java, then?
23:42 < XniX23> jordyd: java is known coz they teach it at universities :P
23:43 < hector> i think go should have promoted its goroutines over speed of
compilation more
23:43 < jordyd> XniX23: I was referring to how Java has practically become
its own OS.
23:43 < XniX23> jordyd: what do you mean its own OS?
23:44 < Amaranth> java has its own everything
23:44 < jordyd> XniX23: The JVM is Java's OS.
23:44 < Amaranth> Then again the Go developers were hoping Go would end up
the same way
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23:44 < Amaranth> They didn't expect everyone to use cgo to wrap C
libraries, they wanted people to write things from scratch in Go
23:45 < clip9> there are many pure go libs too
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23:45 < s_mosher> Amaranth, then they should have packaged graphical
toolkits and media libraries :P
23:46 < jordyd> Amaranth: How is Go supposed to have a GUI without wrapping?
I hope they're not going that far with the Java-ness.
23:46 < sanooj> Amaranth: where are you channeling this from?  you don't
think it's a little presumptious to speak of someone else's expectations?
23:46 < XniX23> jordyd: JVM as far as i known (i might be wrong) is just a
way to speed up java
23:46 < Amaranth> sanooj: From the golang-nuts mailing list
23:46 < sanooj> ok, fair enough I suppose.
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23:47 < jordyd> XniX23: The JVM is the Java Virtual Machine.  The JVM is all
that the Java language sees.  When you are programming Java, it doesn't matter
what operating system you're on, you're programming for the JVM, not the OS.
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23:47 < General13372> I'm trying to store a bunch of arrays in a map for
naming, however i'm getting an error with it
23:47 < Amaranth> Trying to find the exact message now
23:47 < General13372> this is how i'm assigning to the map
23:47 < General13372> "DAY": currentTime.String()[0],
23:48 < General13372> missing key in map literal - is the error I keep
getting
23:48 < Amaranth> I believe someone was complaining about cgo not working
well and they said it didn't have much effort put into it because they didn't
expect it to get a lot of use
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23:49 < XniX23> jordyd: ohhh i never thought of that, i love irc
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23:50 < jordyd> I hope Go get's it's own GUI, but I really hope that GUI
uses native calls, even if not C.
23:50 < jordyd> We don't need another Swing.
23:50 < Amaranth> jordyd: Except you can use Java without the JVM
23:50 < Amaranth> jordyd: Look at gcj, it compiles to native code
23:51 < Amaranth> jordyd: I think GTK+ would be a great toolkit for Go
23:51 < Amaranth> Since GObject and Go OO seem pretty similar and it works
everywhere Go does
23:51 < XniX23> yes it would...  but Qt is also nice
23:52 < s_mosher> I won't be happy until there are Qt bindings
23:52 < Amaranth> Qt is C++ and is not a GUI toolkit
23:52 < hector> i would prefer a generic Gui interface that just lets its
users create windows, add buttons to the windows and set up event handlers
23:52 < s_mosher> actually ncurses has me pretty happy already
23:52 < Amaranth> Qt is everything
23:52 < Amaranth> networking, xml, GUI toolkit, etc
23:52 < jordyd> Qt is like JVM for C++.  :) (without the compile-once thing,
of course)
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23:53 < XniX23> damn im confused :P
23:53 < jordyd> Actually, the Java standard library, or whatever they call
it.
23:53 < Amaranth> Right, it's possible to make a fully functional app
without using any native libraries directly, just using Qt
23:53 < Amaranth> Heck, you can make a fully functional _web browser_
without using any native libraries
23:54 < Amaranth> Then build and run it anywhere Qt is supported
23:54 < jordyd> You can make a fully functional web browser in 5 minutes.
23:54 < Amaranth> I don't like that kind of setup
23:54 < Amaranth> I'd rather pick the best library for each job and deal
with the pain of integrating them
23:54 < jordyd> It's not a /good/ web browser, but it does function
correctly.
23:55 < XniX23> ok, then you just bind GUI toolkit ;P
23:55 < Amaranth> also, webkitgtk+ is faster than QtWebKit :)
23:55 < jordyd> If GTK+ gets bindings for Go, I hope it's not like what
happened to PyGTK.
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23:56 < XniX23> im not really expert in any of the two..  i just remember
that i got pissed of a few times coz i couldnt find the redo in glade
23:56 < s_mosher> GTK+ is too damn gross though
23:57 < Amaranth> jordyd: What happened to PyGTK?  Are you upset because
it's a direct match to the C API instead of adding a pythonic layer on top?
23:57 < jordyd> Amaranth: Exactly.
23:57 < Amaranth> jordyd: How would a Pythonic GUI toolkit work, exactly?
The bindings for Qt are a direct API mapping as well
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23:59 < shoafb> howdy all, I don't suppose anyones had much luck integrating
the 6g / 8g compiler into an xcode build rule have they?
--- Log closed Mon Nov 23 00:00:29 2009