--- Log opened Thu Nov 26 00:00:29 2009 00:02 < nictuku> how do I convert []byte to string? looping through each byte and then concatenating that into a new string object doesn't seem like a good idea 00:02 < alexsuraci> nictuku: string(a) 00:02 < sladegen> there was recently some fix to it revolving around deps.bash... 00:02 < nictuku> alexsuraci: ah :-) 00:02 < sladegen> Rob_Russell: also when you encounter it search issues before submitting anything, it's old known bug. 00:03 < Ibw> nictuku: Have you tried just casting the []byte to a string? 00:03 -!- honeyhoney [n=francisp@72.14.229.81] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:03 < Ibw> *looks like alexsuraci beat me to it 00:03 < Rob_Russell> sladegen: i thought i remembered someone mentioning it here before 00:03 < sladegen> yeah, old tired bug at that. 00:05 < sladegen> and by fix i meant to rebuild failing in spite of clean.bash. 00:05 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:10 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@87.123.168.186] has quit ["http://raichoo.blogspot.com"] 00:15 -!- jabb [i=475e1fa6@gateway/web/freenode/x-rkabrklumihychvk] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 00:16 -!- Zeffrin [n=zeffrin@203.141.132.221.static.zoot.jp] has joined #go-nuts 00:18 < Ibw> Darn, this time cgo really did have a bug that stopped me making Gtk+ wrappers 00:18 < XniX23> lbw: is it fixed now? 00:19 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@174.32.154.79] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 00:19 -!- Popog [n=Adium@66.192.186.101] has left #go-nuts [] 00:19 -!- Popog [n=Adium@66.192.186.101] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 < Ibw> XniX23: No, I submitted an issue. (the bug I was having the other day was just because I wasn't synced to the newest tip) 00:21 -!- iaefai [n=iaefai@Glory.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:24 < Zeffrin> dang I hate full time work, thoroughly interested in exploring this language but no time to do it :( 00:24 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@71.188.133.67] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:25 < Zeffrin> on another topic, with the release of go to the public has Go become a fulltime project there? 00:26 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:27 <+danderson> "there" ? 00:27 < sladegen> Zeffrin: there=Google? judging by "hg log" i don't think so... 00:27 < Zeffrin> at google... before release it was something they refered to as a 20% project or something meaning dev could use up to 20% of their time to work on it if they chose to 00:28 < Ibw> GMail was the same way. 00:28 < iaefai> hmm, issue 9 is almost at 1000 comments 00:28 < alathon> are there any 'official' comments on issue 9? 00:29 <+danderson> it's been a full time project for much longer than the open source release 00:29 < sladegen> i think they are biding their time (think year or two, depending when and how chromeos pans out). 00:29 < Ibw> I wonder how Google could justify paying employees full time for Go though. Once they really do adopt Go as internal language for systems programming, perhaps they could. As of now though, there is no user data collecting capability or source of income 00:29 < Ibw> danderson: Oh, alright 00:29 <+danderson> Ibw: we also built a custom build system, and loads of other developer productivity tools. Why would a sane systems programming language be any different? 00:30 < jessta> Ibw: research is important 00:30 -!- hipe [n=hipe@c-24-11-83-170.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:30 < Ibw> danderson: Perhaps I was talking a bit of gibberish, but from what I understand, Google (you, I suppose), can't really use Go internally for much useful, because it isn't very mature. 00:30 <+danderson> and also what jessta said 00:31 < iaefai> I would be interested in something like cabal for go 00:31 -!- biosed [i=biosed@2001:770:188:0:7171:8f10:4d7a:4fc3] has quit ["Leaving"] 00:31 < Ibw> hah, sure. I'm not complaining. Google engineers full time on Go is fantastic 00:31 < Zeffrin> i suppose they need to invest time in it before it becomes mature enough to consider using it themselves but if they dont make that investment it'll never happen 00:31 <+danderson> Ibw: correct. However, a portion of our resources is always dedicated to "blue sky" research 00:31 <+danderson> (not talking about 20% here) 00:31 < Ibw> danderson: I think that's great. That sort of thing is what sets Google apart from other silicon valley companies 00:31 <+danderson> you never know what might turn up and be the Next Big Thing. 00:32 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:32 < jessta> danderson: "blue sky"? anything like sky-net? 00:32 < alathon> ^^ 00:32 < Amaranth> arg heisenbug 00:32 -!- mitchellh1 [n=mitchell@c-71-231-140-22.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:32 <+danderson> although, in Go's case, it's not purely blue sky, since if it fulfills its promises, there is a big ROI in developer productivity 00:32 < Zeffrin> i can tell you, i wish my employer would let me spend up to 20% working on tools that might be useful here 00:33 <+danderson> which means huge savings (or higher development velocity, if you look at it another way) 00:33 <+danderson> given that we program in C++, and, well, C++ being the way it is... 00:33 <+danderson> not dissing, it gets things done, but if you tickle it the wrong way, boy. 00:33 < iaefai> Does Go have any current or potential support for functionality such as a Maybe/Either monad where you have a full sequence of actions you can run through and if any one of the functions has an error the rest are ignored and you can deal with it at the end of the sequence? 00:34 < alathon> True, but it usually takes a long time for a language to be considered mature enough for corporate use. 00:34 <+danderson> alathon: delays are somewhat shorter when you employ the creators and main developers of the language 00:34 < KirkMcDonald> iaefai: This sounds vaguely like what the testing package does 00:34 < KirkMcDonald> . 00:34 <+danderson> having on staff the people who can fix problems as they crop up makes it easier to take risks :) 00:35 < alathon> danderson: Thats true ;) 00:35 < alathon> danderson: I suppose I also refer to how long it will take before others adopt it 00:35 <+danderson> iaefai: not to my (limited) knowledge, although it's something I found myself wanting in C++ just the other day as well. 00:35 < iaefai> Another thing that would be rather nice to see is a parser combinator library, but either way - is there any kind of parser support in Go? 00:35 < nictuku> ouch, the log API does not show errors. this is bad if I want to use a special logger (in this case, my syslog logger). 00:36 < sladegen> iaefai: goyacc 00:36 -!- Stericson [i=0ca6b485@gateway/web/freenode/x-huqxkdljhdbzdxhp] has quit ["Page closed"] 00:36 < sladegen> iaefai: go also has built in parser facilities for itself. 00:36 <+danderson> iaefai: to parse go itself, there is the go.parser package. For generic parsing, I don't recall anything in the stdlib. Contributions would be most welcome if you have the inclination. 00:37 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:37 < iaefai> I am thinking of some ideas, something I would really like is a package system that makes it easy to contribute things - something like cabal for haskell, CPAN for perl, etc. 00:38 < Amaranth> danderson: Well, C++ has exceptions. Assuming everything you using throws them instead of giving an error code. 00:38 <+danderson> yes indeed. Another thing that needs writing :) 00:38 < Amaranth> please no, not CPAN 00:38 < Amaranth> most of the crap on CPAN is, well, crap 00:38 < Ibw> > s := "hello"; for c := range s { fmt.Printf("%T ; %s", c, c) } 00:38 < rndbot> int ; %s(int=0)int ; %s(int=1)int ; %s(int=2)int ; %s(int=3)int ; %s(int=4) 00:38 < sladegen> iaefai: it's too early for now, base library is not even set in stone and core language semantics may change, too. 00:38 < Ibw> > s := "hello"; for c := range s { fmt.Printf("%T ; %d", c, c) } 00:38 < rndbot> int ; 0int ; 1int ; 2int ; 3int ; 4 00:39 < Ibw> > s := "hello"; for c := range s { fmt.Printf("%T , %d ; ", c, c) } 00:39 < rndbot> int , 0 ; int , 1 ; int , 2 ; int , 3 ; int , 4 ; 00:39 < iaefai> sladegen: Anything like that can evolve with the language, and might actually help with automatic testing of all submitted things 00:39 <+danderson> sladegen: doesn't hurt to get started, to have some unified way of distributing 3rd party stuff. 00:39 <+danderson> and I agree that controlling SNR on such a repository is a problem. I'm tempted to just throw The Social at it and see what happens 00:40 -!- cpr420 [n=cpr@67.165.199.143] has joined #go-nuts 00:40 <+danderson> (ie. let users provide feedback on package quality, let the good stuff bubble up) 00:40 < iaefai> danderson: If something like that were to be developed, is there a place that is possible to allow uploads for a central server to manage? (something akin to hackage) 00:40 < Amaranth> > s := "hello"; for ch, i := range s { fmt.Printf("%T , %d:%s ; ", i, ch) } 00:40 < rndbot> int , 0:%s(missing) ; int , 1:%s(missing) ; int , 2:%s(missing) ; int , 3:%s(missing) ; int , 4:%s(missing) ; 00:40 < Amaranth> hrm 00:40 < sladegen> danderson: sure, but perhaps first a way of installing go and it's packages could be codified somehow better ;) 00:40 -!- Egelmex [n=me92@myrtle.ukc.ac.uk] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 00:40 < iaefai> sladegen: pkg file would be nice for the mac, and shouldn't be hard to do 00:40 <+danderson> well, that's part of a cabal-like system 00:40 < Ibw> > s := "hello"; for _, c := range s { fmt.Printf("%T , %d ; ", c, c) } 00:40 < rndbot> int , 104 ; int , 101 ; int , 108 ; int , 108 ; int , 111 ; 00:40 < Amaranth> sladegen: Or made to be a little more sane... 00:41 < Ibw> ah 00:41 < Ibw> there we go 00:41 -!- mitchellh [n=mitchell@c-71-231-140-22.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41 < sladegen> iaefai: github or code.google... anywayz. 00:41 <+danderson> it includes packaging, distribution, and the mechanics of installing/managing local packages 00:41 -!- alathon [n=Martin@h59ec0ac9.dkkoyno.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has left #go-nuts [] 00:41 < Zeffrin> i must be the only person who hates exceptions... where I work the developrs don't spend enough time looking at the docs to see what exceptions can be thrown by any function they're using so 00:42 < Ibw> > var str [5]int = {104, 101, 108, 108, 111}; fmt.Printf("%s", string(str)); 00:42 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near int, empty top-level declaration> 00:42 < iaefai> Zeffrin: Haskell does it nicely 00:42 < Amaranth> I think I'm going to have to join the mailing list... 00:42 < Zeffrin> our internal software is throwing unhandled exceptions every day doing pretty much any task 00:42 <+danderson> iaefai: as a first step, I can contribute some server space and CPU. As a second step, I can possibly look into getting server space here, although that would be slightly longer term 00:42 <+danderson> (here == google) 00:42 < Zeffrin> at least with errors i dunno, you dont get these unsual error conditions 00:42 < Ibw> > var str [5]int; str[0] = 104; str[1] = 101; str[2] = 108 str[3] = 108; str[4] = 111; fmt.Printf("%s", string(str)); 00:42 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near str> 00:43 < Amaranth> I'm going to have to see about making Go not depend on env variables 00:43 < iaefai> danderson: If anything is done, I will converse with you. It would be nice to bounce ideas. 00:43 <+danderson> iaefai: there's also Google Code, although I'd have to consult with the other site admins to see if it's acceptable use of the service 00:43 < Ibw> Amaranth: The great thing about using Google Groups for the mailing list is that you can "join" without having your email flooded with messages 00:43 <+danderson> (since it would be hosting of mixed-license code, which is normally against our ToS... But I'm sure we can work something out for Go :) 00:45 < Ibw> > str := [...]int{104, 101, 108, 108, 111}; fmt.Printf("%s", string(str)); 00:45 < rndbot> <Error: cannot convert str (type [5]int) to type string in conversion> 00:45 < Ibw> hrm 00:45 < Amaranth> only []byte can be converted like that 00:45 < Ibw> > str := [...]int{104, 101, 108, 108, 111}; fmt.Printf("%s", string([]char(str))); 00:45 < rndbot> <Error: undefined: char> 00:45 < Ibw> > str := [...]int{104, 101, 108, 108, 111}; fmt.Printf("%s", string(&str)); 00:45 <+danderson> iaefai: oops, I take it back about parsers. The stdlib has an ebnf package 00:45 < rndbot> hello 00:45 < Ibw> thar 00:45 < Amaranth> or not... 00:45 < Ibw> very nice 00:46 < iaefai> danderson: lovely 00:46 < Amaranth> 493 files updated, 0 files merged, 1 files removed, 0 files unresolved 00:46 < Ibw> Amaranth: an int array slice can be converted, but not an actual int array 00:46 < Amaranth> that's what I get for not updating for a couple days... 00:46 < Amaranth> arg, stupid hg 00:47 < sladegen> > str := [...]int{104, 101, 108, 108, 111}; fmt.Printf("%s", str.String()); 00:47 < rndbot> <Error: str.String undefined (type [5]int has no field String)> 00:47 < Amaranth> I'm running a terminal, use my PAGER for log... 00:47 -!- mitchellh1 [n=mitchell@c-71-231-140-22.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 00:47 -!- ikke [n=1kk3@unaffiliated/ikkebr] has quit [] 00:48 < iaefai> danderson: Before I run, does Go easily talk with C? 00:48 < XniX23> whats the command to update go again? hg -u or smth 00:48 < Amaranth> XniX23: hg pull && hg update 00:48 < sladegen> hg pull -u 00:48 < Amaranth> or that 00:48 < Amaranth> iaefai: You can use cgo to wrap C libraries but you can't go the other direction 00:48 <+danderson> iaefai: there is an FFI, although it's still incomplete and underdocumented 00:48 < Ibw> sladegen: Did you really think that would work? 00:48 <+danderson> iirc, an example is in misc/cgo in the Go repository. 00:49 < Ibw> iaefai: And it's not easy. cgo is a pain right now, but it works 00:49 <+danderson> someone has already bound GTK to Go using it 00:49 < sladegen> Ibw: no, i was scratching my ass. 00:49 <+danderson> I think it may even be Ibw 00:49 < Ibw> danderson: I'm working on it. I ran into a bug with cgo though, so I have to wait for that to be resolved. You can see all the libraries that *have* been bound though at http://go-lang.cat-v.org/library-bindings 00:50 < Amaranth> nigeltao: I would think if you're going to expose any part of the X client protocol you would just do XRender and the bits needed to use it to draw into a window 00:50 < Amaranth> With that you can pretty much do everything you want drawing related 00:50 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:51 < Ibw> hum, now to fix that broken non-UTF8 compliant string manipulation code... 00:51 < Ibw> @eval len("hello漢字") 00:51 < iaefai> It looks like something that can be worked with 00:51 < rndbot> 11 00:52 < Ibw> ergh 00:52 < Ibw> annoying 00:52 < Amaranth> that's not right? 00:52 < iaefai> I am more interested in a basic cocoa interface that can work with opengl on a rather primitive level. 00:52 < Ibw> Amaranth: I was hoping it would return the number of characters rather than the number of bytes 00:52 < Amaranth> ah 00:53 < Amaranth> @eval utf8.RuneCountInString("hello漢字") 00:53 < rndbot> <Error: undefined: utf8> 00:53 < Amaranth> hrm 00:53 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.41.124] has quit [Connection timed out] 00:53 < Amaranth> Ibw: anyway, that's what you want 00:54 <+danderson> hehe, runes 00:54 < Ibw> Amaranth: ah, thank you 00:54 <+danderson> because codepoint is 5 characters too long 00:55 < Amaranth> > import utf8; fmt.Printf("%s", utf8.RuneCountInString("hello漢字")); 00:55 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near import> 00:55 < Amaranth> bleh, silly bot :) 00:55 < XniX23> how can call global variables in a function? 00:55 < Amaranth> oh, silly me 00:55 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@212.198.164.142] has joined #go-nuts 00:55 < Amaranth> > import "utf8"; fmt.Printf("%s", utf8.RuneCountInString("hello漢字")); 00:55 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near import> 00:55 < sladegen> > cap("ello") 00:55 < rndbot> <Error: invalid argument "ello" (type string) for cap> 00:55 < Amaranth> now silly bot 00:55 <+danderson> yeah, the expression you enter is encapsulated in main 00:55 <+danderson> where imports are disallowed 00:55 <+danderson> Gracenotes: could you add utf8 to the list of imported packages? 00:57 < XniX23> anyone? 00:57 < Ibw> > s := "hello漢字"; for _, c := range s { fmt.Printf("%T , %d ; ", c, c) } 00:57 < rndbot> int , 104 ; int , 101 ; int , 108 ; int , 108 ; int , 111 ; int , 28450 ; int , 23383 ; 00:58 -!- ergodicsum [n=ergudics@cpe-075-182-116-231.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:58 < sladegen> > a:=1; func() { print(a) }() 00:58 < rndbot> 1 00:58 -!- brunov [n=bruno@190.191.110.64] has joined #go-nuts 00:58 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has joined #go-nuts 00:59 < XniX23> sladegen: was that an answer? :p 00:59 < sladegen> yeah, just do it. 00:59 * sladegen zinks. 01:01 < sladegen> > package main ; a:=1 ; func main() { func(){ print(a) }() } 01:01 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near package, syntax error near main> 01:01 < sladegen> rndbot: help! 01:02 < sladegen> rndbot: i've segfaulted and i can't compile! 01:02 < XniX23> i have them in main, but i'd like to call them from another func 01:03 -!- gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-98-250-49-37.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:03 < sladegen> XniX23: and you tried running it through compiler and it doesn't work? 01:03 -!- directrixx [n=directri@ip68-231-189-247.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:04 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@212.198.164.142] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 01:04 < XniX23> sladegen: yes 01:04 < Ibw> sladegen: rndbot just sticks all the code you write into a main function, so that code won't work 01:05 < hnaz> rndbot: 1 + 1; 01:05 < drhodes> > 1+1 01:05 < rndbot> <Error: 2 not used, 2 not used> 01:06 < sladegen> Ibw: i know since danderson just said it but i recall whole programs working in rndbot before. 01:06 -!- nil [n=ni|@cpe-72-191-33-69.satx.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:06 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has joined #go-nuts 01:06 < Ibw> oh, ok 01:06 < Ibw> didn't see danderson's comment. Sorry for the redundancy 01:07 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has quit [Client Quit] 01:07 < Ibw> @eval 1+1 01:07 < rndbot> 2 01:08 < Ibw> >fmt.Printf("%d", 1+1); 01:08 < sladegen> XniX23: well... dunno, declare them at the top, is the only quick 'ack i can see. 01:08 < Ibw> > fmt.Printf("%d", 1+1); 01:08 < rndbot> 2 01:09 < XniX23> sladegen: thats bugging me, i cant coz i need to init something in main before i can assign them :) anyway im trying to transfer array as func param 01:09 < sladegen> XniX23: declare them only "var foo tbar"... 01:10 -!- pilt [n=pilt@h-60-10.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:10 < sladegen> you can assign them later in main. 01:10 -!- turutosiya [n=turutosi@219.106.251.65] has joined #go-nuts 01:11 < Ibw> XniX23: Take a look at how initialization works: http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#initialization. I think that should clear up some questions 01:12 < Ibw> (I don't really know what your question is though, I wasn't following chat) 01:13 < sladegen> XniX23: or construct your functions inside main with anonymous code blocks... 01:14 -!- scyth [n=scyth@213.198.241.212] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:14 -!- scyth [n=scyth@rots.in.rs] has joined #go-nuts 01:14 < XniX23> it worked with declaration on top and in main giving value... how could i have forgotten about that :\ 01:14 < XniX23> thanks lbw ill definitely read that 01:14 < sladegen> http://gopaste.org/view/KI820 01:15 -!- dbberg [n=dani@c-98-234-183-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:16 < XniX23> nice trick 01:17 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:17 < XniX23> finaly i got rid of that segfault.. 01:21 -!- cpr420 [n=cpr@67.165.199.143] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 01:22 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5adaeaa9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 01:22 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5adaeaa9.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:24 -!- Metaphis [n=cyanure@212-198-164-142.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 01:29 < Ibw> XniX23: What was causing the segfault? 01:29 < Ibw> was it too much memory? 01:29 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:29 -!- goplexian [n=goplexia@d154-20-0-9.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:29 < spikebike> msg nickserv identify altivec 01:29 < spikebike> heh oops 01:30 < goplexian> goodevening 01:30 < Ibw> oopsies 01:30 < KirkMcDonald> Time for a new password! Heh. 01:30 < Ibw> hey goplexian 01:30 < KirkMcDonald> (And this is why I always /msg nickserv from the status window.) 01:31 < Ibw> I just open a private msg session with nickserv 01:31 < spikebike> indeed 01:31 < goplexian> hmm actually this seems to be a problem with empathy I try /msg and it says unsupported command 01:32 < Ibw> hah, there's probably something else you can use 01:34 < goplexian> hmm 01:35 -!- goplexian [n=goplexia@d154-20-0-9.bchsia.telus.net] has left #go-nuts [] 01:36 -!- goplexian [n=goplexia@d154-20-0-9.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:38 < XniX23> lbw: i believe it was a binding when declaring a pointer var... so i just declared it once and used that memory location all over changing the value 01:38 < nictuku> danderson: still awake? 01:41 < XniX23> im going to sleep 01:41 < XniX23> gn8 guys 01:41 < Ibw> bye 01:41 -!- XniX23 [n=XniX23@89-212-10-29.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 01:44 <+danderson> nictuku: kinda 01:46 -!- 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General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:19 -!- kichik|work [n=kichik_w@84.108.238.52] has joined #go-nuts 02:24 < Gracenotes> danderson: sure, utf8 looks okay :) 02:24 -!- anticw [n=anticw@c-76-126-87-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:25 < Gracenotes> added to the 'modules' file, which the bot reads every time a command is executed. although I suppose I could do some last-modified check.. no big performance hit :) 02:25 <+danderson> meh 02:25 <+danderson> do the check if profiling reveals a performance impact 02:26 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-71-58-123-111.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:27 < Gracenotes> profiling for asynchronous things can be tricky... may as well cache in a list anyway 02:27 < Gracenotes> here is the current list of modules: http://gopaste.org/view/fP3Ai 02:27 < Gracenotes> technically, anything that doesn't directly require syscall should be fine. or hooked up to some internal nasty stuff (like 'unsafe') 02:27 < Gracenotes> so any suggestions appreciated 02:28 -!- Metaphis [n=cyanure@212-198-164-142.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:28 < Gracenotes> (io and os are imported because I removed most of the syscall-bound calls there) 02:28 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 02:30 -!- pace_t_zulu_ [n=pacetzul@unaffiliated/pacetzulu/x-585030] has joined #go-nuts 02:32 -!- Fraeon [n=kzer-za@e212-246-65-153.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 02:32 -!- Popog [n=Adium@66-192-186-101.static.twtelecom.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 02:33 -!- hooopy [i=hoopy@173.30.98.140] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:36 -!- Popog [n=Adium@66-192-186-101.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:37 -!- kichik|work2 [n=kichik_w@bzq-84-108-238-52.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:41 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: Ycros, mat_, bombuzal, ukai, mjburgess, ssb, alamar, u4ia, luca__, jiing, (+7 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 02:41 -!- erikd [n=aphistic@otome.novustorm.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:42 -!- dionysiac [n=dionysia@209.91.107.250] has joined #go-nuts 02:42 -!- elmarco [n=elmarco@83.245.167.151] has joined #go-nuts 02:44 -!- bombuzal [n=sbus@77.75.105.87] has joined #go-nuts 02:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: mjburgess 02:45 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:45 -!- sliceofpi [n=Adium@c-98-194-205-176.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:45 -!- sliceofpi [n=Adium@98.194.205.176] has joined #go-nuts 02:45 -!- dionysiac [n=dionysia@209.91.107.250] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47 -!- sepoy [n=sepoy@c-98-202-50-243.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:47 -!- sepoy [n=sepoy@98.202.50.243] has joined #go-nuts 02:49 -!- jordyd [n=user@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:52 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has joined #go-nuts 02:54 -!- ajstarks [n=ajstarks@98.109.198.180] has joined #go-nuts 02:57 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@71.188.133.67] has joined #go-nuts 03:00 -!- mxcl [n=mxcl@94.193.125.246] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:06 -!- ukai [n=ukai@220.109.219.244] has joined #go-nuts 03:07 -!- mxcl [n=mxcl@94-193-125-246.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 03:10 -!- [k2] [n=mark@69.162.91.23] has quit ["leaving"] 03:11 < spikebike> Hrm, what can be send over channels? Objects? *objects? 03:12 < alexsuraci> anything 03:14 -!- zum [n=jsykari@xdsl-83-150-88-4.nebulazone.fi] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- mat_ [n=mat@mx3.absolight.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- alamar [i=alamar@oops.kernel.de] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- u4ia [n=weechat@quepasa.solcon.nl] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- RooTer [i=rooter@87-205-66-223.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- hoodow [n=hoodow@2001:41d0:1:f5e5:0:0:0:666] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- uxp [n=uxp@uxp.dsl.xmission.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- luca__ [n=luca@host29.190-230-2.telecom.net.ar] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- Yappo_ [n=yappo@221x243x122x124.ap221.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- Ycros [n=ycros@211.30.206.246] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- jiing [n=jiing@59-120-12-62.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:14 -!- ssb [n=ssb@213.167.39.150] has joined #go-nuts 03:17 -!- BMeph [n=black_me@65.103.151.24] has joined #go-nuts 03:22 -!- [k2] [n=[k2]@69.162.91.23] has joined #go-nuts 03:24 -!- BMeph [n=black_me@65.103.151.24] has left #go-nuts [] 03:28 < spikebike> cool 03:28 -!- BMeph [n=black_me@65.103.151.24] has joined #go-nuts 03:28 -!- sergio [n=sergio@unaffiliated/sergio] has joined #go-nuts 03:30 -!- mitchellh [n=mitchell@12.130.118.1] has joined #go-nuts 03:32 < Gracenotes> > ch := make(chan interface{}); go func(){ fmt.Print(<-(<-ch).(chan interface{})); ch <- " done" }(); ch <- ch; ch <- 10; fmt.Print(<-ch); 03:32 < rndbot> 10 done 03:32 -!- gnibbler [n=duckman@124-168-35-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 03:32 < Gracenotes> yes, chans can send themselves over themselves. \o/ 03:32 -!- mitchellh [n=mitchell@12.130.118.1] has left #go-nuts [] 03:32 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.97.100] has joined #go-nuts 03:37 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mjard, toft, turutosiya, scarabx, cmatei, rullie, Hong_MinHee, dju, synx`, cworth, (+57 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 03:37 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: JoNaZ, nsz, redondos, westymatt, scandal, maacl, droid001, zhurai, dj_ryan, bjorn`, (+71 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 03:37 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: freespace, exDM69, Hertta, vegai, mitsuhiko, laprice, vsmatck, Jerub, kolmodin, Rint, (+34 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 03:37 -!- Netsplit orwell.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: akheron, existsec_, drhodes, rbancroft, emilh_, kfx, erikd, michaelh, gcopenhaver, murodese, (+56 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 03:38 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Zeffrin, msbranco_, drhodes, rndbot, Gracenotes, reppie, facemelter, Smergo, +danderson, mycroftiv (+246 more) 03:40 <+danderson> Ibw: http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html#copyright 03:40 <+danderson> see last paragraph (yes, ICLA/CCLA required, depending on your situation) 03:41 -!- alc [n=alc@222.128.131.226] has joined #go-nuts 03:41 <+danderson> the ICLA can be signed electronically, if your work is not covered by your employer's copyright 03:41 < Ibw> ah, thanks for the link 03:41 -!- dbberg_ [n=dani@c-98-234-183-59.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts ["Ex-Chat"] 03:41 <+danderson> (http://code.google.com/legal/individual-cla-v1.0.html) 03:44 -!- Null-A [n=jason@c-76-21-4-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:44 -!- gnibbler_ [n=duckman@124-168-4-29.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Network is unreachable] 03:44 -!- diltsman [n=diltsman@ip68-108-197-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:46 -!- werdan7 [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:48 -!- andresambrois [n=aa@r190-135-152-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #go-nuts 03:48 -!- stalled [n=411@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:51 -!- werdan7 [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 03:54 -!- Popog [n=Adium@66-192-186-101.static.twtelecom.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 03:54 < spikebike> hrm, somehow I lost track of the 3 go language PDFs (day1, day2, and day3) 03:54 -!- alexsuraci [n=alex@71.188.133.67] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 03:55 -!- jordyd [n=user@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:55 -!- smooge [n=smooge@int.smoogespace.com] has quit ["-ENOBRAIN"] 03:55 -!- stalled [n=411@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 03:56 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:57 < spikebike> ah, found em 03:57 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:57 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:57 < tanamo> any ideas on how to call go functions from C? i know it's not yet supported but maybe there's a workaround? 03:57 < anticw> cgo 03:58 < doublec> cgo doesn't allow calling go functions from C 03:58 < doublec> afaik 04:03 < spikebike> I was looking through the benchmarks at shootout 04:03 < spikebike> one of the java ones did impressively well so I looked at it close 04:03 < spikebike> it was basically a java wrapper for libgmp 04:03 -!- scyth [n=scyth@rots.in.rs] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:03 -!- scyth [n=scyth@rots.in.rs] has joined #go-nuts 04:04 < jordyd> Heh. Java is really fast when you use C libraries. 04:06 < Rob_Russell> > func (a mytype) Foo() (a mytype) { return; } 04:06 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near Foo, syntax error near return> 04:07 -!- wcr [n=wcr@unaffiliated/warcrime] has joined #go-nuts 04:07 < jessta> how long is a string? 04:07 < anticw> 32cm 04:07 < Rob_Russell> Seems like func (a mytype) Foo() (a) { return; } should be valid but it doesn't compile (even when you do define the types) 04:07 < jessta> anticw: how would I get that? 04:08 -!- Freeaqinf [n=Freeaqin@ns3.hostdelight.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:08 < Ibw> jessta: Do you realize that he was joking? 04:08 < anticw> jessta: it's was a joke; please rephrase the question 04:09 < anticw> len(s) is probably what you want 04:09 < Rob_Russell> jessta: string s has length len(s) 04:09 < anticw> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html ... search for "string len" 04:09 < wcr> You guys really should have played this out longer... "a tape measurer" would have sufficed. 04:09 < Ibw> Unless you want to know the number of characters in the string, then use utf8.RunesInString(str) 04:09 < Ibw> heh 04:09 < Rob_Russell> Ibw: i keep forgetting that one 04:09 < jordyd> wcr: I completely agree. 04:09 < Ibw> wcr: That would have been quite entertaining. I suspect jessta may have responded with: where do I get one of thsoe 04:10 < wcr> It is not often that someone misses sarcasm which is that obvious :D 04:10 -!- viirya [n=viirya@cml506-25.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has quit ["leaving"] 04:10 < Ibw> Rob_Russell: ya, that really bit me yesterday. I submitted some string manipulation code for review and realized the next morning that all of my code was uselles with any string using UTF8 characters more than one byte 04:11 < jessta> Ibw: yeah, that's what I was looking for 04:11 < Ibw> jessta: Cool, glad I could help. 04:11 < Ibw> jessta: What are you doing exactly? There are some caveats of working with strings in Go that you need to worry about 04:12 < Ibw> If you're doing anything character by character, you need to understand how strings are stored 04:12 -!- halfdan [n=halfdan@p57A94642.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:13 < Ibw> (or at least how to get them "unstored" so that you can work with them( 04:13 < Ibw> ) 04:14 -!- viirya [n=viirya@140.112.29.179] has joined #go-nuts 04:14 < anticw> Rob_Russell: you using a twice for Foo 04:15 < Rob_Russell> anticw: yeah, that's what i mean 04:15 < Rob_Russell> anticw: basically saying the function just returns the thing itself 04:18 -!- Freeaqingme [n=Freeaqin@ns3.hostdelight.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 04:21 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:24 -!- halfdan_ [n=halfdan@87.169.80.181] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:26 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 04:28 -!- rbohn [i=rsbohn@xmission.xmission.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:29 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 04:29 -!- sladegen [n=nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #go-nuts 04:35 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.97.100] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 04:40 -!- roo [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 04:41 -!- me____ [n=venkates@c-68-39-87-198.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:42 -!- werdan7 [n=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Client Quit] 04:42 -!- diltsman [n=diltsman@ip68-108-197-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 04:49 -!- loureiro [n=loureiro@201008204201.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit ["Quit"] 04:49 < zhurai> does go have any _native_ (?) way to make gui's 04:49 < zhurai> or do we have to wait for gtk/qt/wx/etc to make bindings for go 04:50 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has quit [] 04:53 < uriel> zhurai: kind of , there is exp/draw/ 04:53 < zhurai> ah o-o 04:53 < uriel> but that is probably much more low level than what you want 04:55 -!- pace_t_zulu_ [n=pacetzul@unaffiliated/pacetzulu/x-585030] has quit [] 04:55 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@174.32.154.79] has joined #go-nuts 04:57 -!- werdan7 [i=w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 04:59 -!- sdier [n=sdier@faraway.dier.name] has left #go-nuts [] 05:03 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has joined #go-nuts 05:04 < Amaranth> no event handling there though 05:04 < jordyd> zhurai: And exp/draw/ is... expreimental, I think is the word they used. 05:04 < Amaranth> You're probably just going to have to wait for gtk bindings 05:04 < jordyd> experimental* 05:04 -!- brrant [n=John@168-103-78-133.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:05 < Amaranth> The Xorg developers wouldn't be happy to hear about someone making a whole new toolkit 05:05 < spikebike> what do they care? 05:05 < Amaranth> their channel topic actually says "don't write a new window manager or toolkit. seriously." 05:05 < spikebike> heh 05:05 < spikebike> seems shortsited 05:05 < jordyd> But... what /do/ they care? 05:06 < Amaranth> well compiz is the ultimate window manager construction kit 05:06 < spikebike> competition is good, sure I was happy with fvwm years ago 05:06 < spikebike> yeah I'm quite fond of compiz these days 05:06 < Amaranth> jordyd: because they get questions about it and people used to blame gtk bugs on X 05:06 < Amaranth> spikebike: I'm glad to hear that :) 05:06 < snake_> when it works. Because not everybody have good 3d support 05:06 < spikebike> now that gnome and gtk can draw straight to a frame buffer I can see the x.org folks getting touchy 05:07 < spikebike> but to be honest many things don't work over X anyways, seems like few notice 05:07 < Amaranth> spikebike: what distro? 05:07 < spikebike> what distro what? 05:07 < jordyd> But doesn't X.org pretty much take care of detecting displays? Why would you want to lose that? 05:07 < Amaranth> spikebike: what distro do you use? 05:07 < spikebike> ubuntu 05:07 < Amaranth> spikebike: awesome, you're using my version of compiz then :) 05:08 < spikebike> cool 05:08 * zhurai is in arch + tiled wm >.> 05:08 < jordyd> Amaranth: Depends on whether he's using the same version of Ubuntu. 05:08 < spikebike> I have very very simple things that I expect of a window manager and SO MANY get it wrong 05:08 < spikebike> moving mouse/windows/etc should be the same within a display as across a display 05:09 < Amaranth> jordyd: Every version of Ubuntu with compiz in it is my version ;) 05:09 < jordyd> Amaranth: Oh, heh, you read nothing, then. 05:09 < spikebike> none of this click on the tiny minature desktop, no special key mappings... if I can move windows/mouse/cut/paste within a desktop that's all I should need to know 05:09 -!- Perberos [n=Perberos@190.49.21.28] has joined #go-nuts 05:10 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has joined #go-nuts 05:10 < jordyd> I like tiling window managers... but I never use them. :D 05:10 < Whtiger> http://pastebin.com/d604bcca4 what's going on? 05:11 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.39.240] has joined #go-nuts 05:11 < Amaranth> Whtiger: We'd have to see the code 05:12 < jordyd> Amaranth: It's at the bottom. 05:12 < Amaranth> arg 05:12 * Amaranth is tired 05:12 < nictuku> just installed Go in a Linux system, and gotest is segfaulting. Works fine on my mac. 05:13 < Whtiger> The net test on the install failed too. 05:14 < Whtiger> googledial or whatever 05:14 < jordyd> Whtiger: Try actually getting the error from net.Dial and print it. 05:14 < jordyd> So you can see if there is an error. 05:15 < uriel> Whtiger: ignore that 05:15 < Whtiger> jordyd: doesn't print anything, just the sigsegv 05:15 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #go-nuts 05:15 < uriel> Whtiger: it is a known issue with some firewalls/whatever 05:15 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@c-76-23-22-201.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:16 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@174.32.154.79] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:16 < Whtiger> uriel: how so 05:18 < Whtiger> I can't find anything in bug tracker 05:20 < nictuku> anybody willing to take an initial look at this changelist? thanks. http://codereview.appspot.com/157168/show 05:21 < Whtiger> uriel: any idea how to fix it even temporarily? 05:22 -!- super_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 05:22 -!- lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #go-nuts 05:25 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-71-58-123-111.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:28 -!- Null-A [n=jason@c-76-21-4-0.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts [] 05:29 < Ibw> nictuku: There are very few if any Go devs on this channel 05:29 < uriel> Whtiger: just ignore it 05:29 < Whtiger> uriel: just ignore what? 05:29 < Makavel> Hi... does anyone know if there are list of go examples out there? 05:29 < Whtiger> My code is exploding 05:30 < nictuku> Ibw: I see, thanks. Luckily I have other means of finding them :-) 05:30 < Ibw> nictuku: Did you make an entire new package? 05:30 < nictuku> yes 05:30 < Ibw> cooleo 05:31 < Ibw> You should add people to your "Reviewers" list 05:31 < uriel> Whtiger: the error: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=20 05:31 < Ibw> as of now, no one is getting notified to look at the code 05:31 < uriel> Makavel: http://go-lang.cat-v.org/go-code 05:31 < Makavel> uriel: Thanks 05:31 < Whtiger> uriel: I don't think that's the same error 05:31 < nictuku> Ibw: right, but who? 05:32 < uriel> Whtiger: well, then fill a bug 05:32 < Ibw> nictuku: I've got no idea how you're supposed to find people, but r and rsc are safe bets I think 05:32 < Ibw> They are the ones listed in the examples so... 05:32 < Ibw> They are also two people from the code dev team 05:32 < Ibw> Rob and Russ I think 05:33 < uriel> Whtiger: but I still think it is the same issue 05:33 < Ibw> (P.S. to everyone: paste your code on gopaste.org. It's so much cooler that way) 05:33 < uriel> Ibw: who to add to your reviewers list is supposedly in the contribution instructions 05:33 < Whtiger> uriel: how? It's crashing violently 05:34 < uriel> Whtiger: how what? 05:34 < Ibw> uriel: Yup, I know very much how to add reviewers. What isn't specified in the list is how to decide which reviewers to add. Whatever though, I've just been sending my code to r and rsc 05:34 < Ibw> *specified in the instructions 05:34 < uriel> Ibw: I thought that was fixed yesterday 05:34 < Whtiger> uriel: how is it the same issue? it's not like I can just ignore a crash. 05:34 < Ibw> lemme check 05:35 < Ibw> uriel: I don't see it. If you can prove me wrong, though, I would be greatful 05:37 < uriel> Ibw: http://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=5da00b238fa52906e7c8415934a3ab1a2758bd79 05:37 < uriel> seems that the update has not made it to the public site yet 05:38 < Ibw> Nope, thanks for that link though. 05:39 < Whtiger> grarg, nevermind! uriel, you're right. 05:39 < uriel> well, good that at least I'm not wrong all the time then :) 05:40 -!- aho [n=nya@78.51.22.76] has quit ["EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION"] 05:42 < Whtiger> no wait, I don't think this is the same bug, I don't know 05:43 -!- scarabx [n=scarabx@c-24-147-239-120.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 05:44 < Whtiger> it's something with DNS 05:44 < Whtiger> if I do IP then it works all the time 05:44 < Ibw> Do you think there would be any use for a tar package? 05:44 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.39.240] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:45 < nictuku> uriel: thanks for the link 05:49 -!- diltsman_ [n=diltsman@ip68-108-197-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:50 < Makavel> Hi... how can i convert int to string in Go 05:50 < nictuku> Makavel: strconv.itoa() 05:51 < Gracenotes> i -> I 05:54 < Makavel> nictuku: thanks but I found out that strconv.itoa() should be strconv.Itoa() 05:55 < nictuku> that's probably what Gracenotes tried to say above :-) 05:56 < Gracenotes> yes, I can only speak in one-letter words and punctuation :( 05:56 -!- scandal [n=nobody@unaffiliated/scandal] has quit ["Leaving."] 05:56 < Makavel> thanks guys 05:56 -!- rbohn [i=rsbohn@xmission.xmission.com] has quit ["changing universes"] 05:57 -!- droid001 [n=g1@79.220.226.70] has quit [Success] 05:57 < Zeffrin> i'd think wouldnt be long before someone found tar package useful 05:57 -!- diltsman_ [n=diltsman@ip68-108-197-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 05:57 < Gracenotes> oh, someone has? 05:58 < Zeffrin> Ibw was asking if there'd be any use for one, just sayin'.. :) 05:58 -!- droid001 [n=g1@79.220.226.102] has joined #go-nuts 05:58 < Gracenotes> there's no bzip2 support yet. because, honestly, bzip2 is *complicated* >_> 05:59 < Ibw> Zeffrin: woah, there's not, you're right. That would be a fun project 05:59 < Gracenotes> even the most impassioned code golfer might not be able to get it under 5KB of code. well, 2-3KB at most 06:00 < Gracenotes> nor would one want to 06:01 < Ibw> I think it would be very useful though, and appears to be quite a large gap in the standard library 06:02 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@c-76-23-22-201.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 06:02 -!- alexf [n=alexf@99.35.10.35] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:04 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-71-58-123-111.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:04 -!- andresambrois [n=aa@r190-135-138-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #go-nuts 06:04 -!- wcr [n=wcr@unaffiliated/warcrime] has quit [] 06:04 -!- aa [n=aa@r190-135-152-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 06:05 < Gracenotes> > zout, _ := zlib.NewDeflater(os.Stdout); io.WriteString(zout, "hello world") 06:05 < rndbot> xœ 06:06 < Gracenotes> -_- 06:06 -!- Rob_Russell [n=chatzill@206-248-157-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [No route to host] 06:06 < Gracenotes> there's no string writer yet 06:07 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has quit [] 06:07 < Gracenotes> what might be called a string builder 06:10 < Ibw> does an io.Reader not need to be passed by reference to get the same data? 06:11 < alc> > for i := 0; i < 10; i++ { func (x int) {println(x)}(i) } 06:11 < rndbot> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 06:12 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:12 < Ibw> function to get an io.Reader for a file? 06:14 < Ibw> ah, it appears that the tutorial sample code does that. 06:14 < Ibw> hmm 06:14 < spikebike> btw, not sure exactly who was around during the channel + goroutine discussion 06:14 < Ibw> that's really stupid. Is there any reason that the tutorial file io code isn't in the standard packages yet? 06:14 < spikebike> But I applied the result to the shootout for the mandelbrot set 06:15 < spikebike> turns out for 16k x 16k image using a goroutine per line was 3x slower than a goroutine per CPU 06:15 < antarus> are you that surprised? :) 06:16 < spikebike> nope, just nice to have an actual data point 06:16 < Ibw> Anyone know? Is there code to get an io.Reader for a file that's in the standard packages? 06:16 < spikebike> 16000 pixels is a fair bit of work, but apparently so is creating a goroutine 06:16 -!- westymatt [n=westymat@173-17-254-31.client.mchsi.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:16 < antarus> doing Thread per X, or fork per X, or go-routine per X is likely always more expensive than some kind of pool 06:17 < antarus> (when X is large and relatively short lived anyway ;p) 06:17 < spikebike> the competition switched to a goroutine per 100 lines of 16k and almost matched my performance 06:18 < nictuku> spikebike: how many CPUs? I'm surprised it was only 3 times slower for 16k goroutines 06:18 < spikebike> 4 06:18 < spikebike> well actually it was 87 seconds 06:18 < spikebike> my entry was 29 seconds 06:18 < Gracenotes> shootout tends to be heavily CPU-bound 06:18 -!- armence [n=armence@c-67-188-229-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 06:18 < spikebike> then some polishing got mine down to 19 06:19 < Gracenotes> Haskell, for instance, tends to target the 4-CPU entries, so its performance is not so great on less 06:19 < spikebike> I was all proud to go from 87 -> 27, turns out the good competitors were on the ubuntu 64 bit box 06:19 < Zeffrin> good to know, i'd been thinking last night for image processing it'd be interesting to do a goroutine per line and let the processors eat it up as many at a time as possible but obviously this is not the way 06:19 < spikebike> so instead of 3x the best I'm around 5-10% 8-( 06:19 < Gracenotes> if we can get four goroutines going at the same time, the runtime system doesn't have to worry about context switching so much. at least, I hope 06:19 < spikebike> yeah 06:20 < spikebike> it's really main + 4, but main doesn't have to do much 06:20 < Ibw> os pkg has file io 06:20 < Gracenotes> yeah. io doesn't actually do anything by itself 06:20 < spikebike> I assume something going between 2 goroutines via a channel doesn't req1uire a context switch 06:21 < Gracenotes> io has utility functions, really. plus defines the interfaces that are used elsewhere 06:21 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 06:21 < Gracenotes> os is the interface to syscall. (which itself is an interface to os-specific stuff) 06:21 < Gracenotes> lower-level-os-specific 06:24 < Gracenotes> just don't get too hacky for the shootout -- only as much as most other PLs 06:25 < JBeshir> Sounds like that's pretty hacky. :P 06:26 < Gracenotes> grr... I wish I had my notes with me about my STG simulator layout.. 06:26 * Gracenotes tries to draw from memory 06:29 -!- me____ [n=venkates@c-68-39-87-198.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:31 -!- turutosiya [n=turutosi@219.106.251.65] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:35 < Ibw> wow, the tar format is actually quite easy 06:35 < Ibw> all of the headers are in ascii format, and the files themselves are completely unchanged. Plus, everything is padded to nice round numbers 06:36 -!- crashR [n=crasher@codextreme.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:38 < spikebike> yeah 06:38 < spikebike> it's easy and straightforward 06:38 < spikebike> some drawbacks as a format, but easy to read/write 06:39 < Zeffrin> added 117 changesets with 579 changes to 438 files 06:39 < Zeffrin> 422 files updated, 0 files merged, 1 files removed, 0 files unresolved 06:39 < Zeffrin> wow, since yesterday morning or the day before not sure but wow 06:42 < Ibw> Anything in standard packages for converting to/from octals? 06:42 < Ibw> doesn't look like it 06:42 * Ibw sighs 06:43 < Ibw> Actually, it's kind of exciting. Another thing that can be commited 06:45 -!- zerofluid [n=zeroflui@72.208.216.68] has joined #go-nuts 06:45 < nictuku> Ibw: I see a few Int-to-Octal functions in fmt/format.go 06:46 < Ibw> what's that cool short word that stands for the number system that a number uses? like, 10 (decimal), 8(octal), 2(binary) 06:46 < Ibw> nictuku: Awesome, thanks 06:46 < KirkMcDonald> Ibw: There is stuff in the strconv package for both to and from arbitrary bases. 06:47 -!- slashus2 [n=slashus2@74-137-26-8.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 06:48 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@53.250.sfcn.org] has joined #go-nuts 06:52 < Ibw> KirkMcDonald: I'm not finding anything other than Itob, which doesn't really help going from something else into decimal 06:53 < Ibw> nvm 06:54 < Ibw> @eval int(strconv.Btoi64("64", 8) 06:54 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near 8> 06:54 < Ibw> @eval int(strconv.Btoi64("64", 8)) 06:54 < rndbot> <Error: multiple-value strconv.Btoi64() in single-value context> 06:55 < Ibw> > i, error := int(strconv.Btoi64("64", 8)); fmt.Printf("%v", i) 06:55 < rndbot> <Error: multiple-value strconv.Btoi64() in single-value context> 06:55 < Ibw> > i, error := strconv.Btoi64("64", 8); fmt.Printf("%v", i) 06:55 < rndbot> 52 06:55 < Gracenotes> hm 06:55 < Ibw> perfect 06:55 < Ibw> (you should still get those multiple returns working in @eval though 06:56 < Gracenotes> yeah, still working on that. trickier than it seems, other than actually scanning the compiler error messages 06:56 -!- knave [n=Knave@dsl-240-187-198.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #go-nuts 06:56 < Gracenotes> unless the reflect package can give me that information 06:57 < Gracenotes> but all I have is the string containing the code 06:57 < Gracenotes> > x := func(x string) (int, string) { return len(x), x }; fmt.Printf("%T", x) 06:57 < rndbot> func(string) (int, string) 06:57 < Gracenotes> hm. still, don't have runtime access to that :) 06:58 < Gracenotes> > fmt.Printf("%T", strconv.Btoi64("64", 8)) 06:58 < rndbot> <Error: multiple-value strconv.Btoi64() in single-value context> 06:59 < Ibw> What is the os.Error value for no error? 06:59 < Gracenotes> nil, probably 07:00 < nictuku> nil ? 07:00 -!- iaefai [n=iaefai@Glory.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 07:00 < Ibw> alrighty then 07:13 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@90.218.234.169] has joined #go-nuts 07:14 -!- |houkiom| [n=belkiss@78.235.168.105] has joined #go-nuts 07:15 -!- |houkiom| [n=belkiss@78.235.168.105] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has joined #go-nuts 07:18 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@88.84.156.71] has joined #go-nuts 07:20 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@53.250.sfcn.org] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 07:22 -!- triplez [n=triplez@cm52.sigma225.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 07:24 -!- path[l] [n=path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 07:25 < Zeffrin> ls 07:27 < Ibw> What's the best way to include my own packages in a build? 07:27 < Zeffrin> so sad, the concurrent prime sieve example is boggling my mind 07:27 < Ibw> import "./mypackage" or is there something on the command line I can do when building? 07:29 < jessta> Ibw: it's -I 07:29 < Ibw> capital I? 07:29 < Ibw> doesn't seem to be working 07:30 < Ibw> I just have to compile the package to mypackage.8, right? 07:32 < spikebike> heh/ me reads about go's built in tar support 07:32 < Ibw> ... 07:32 < Ibw> really? 07:33 < Ibw> spikebike: Are you saying that there *is* built in tar support? 07:33 < Zeffrin> oh heh, pkg archive/tar 07:33 < Zeffrin> funny, didnt see him there right at the top of the list hey 07:34 < spikebike> heh 07:34 < Ibw> ... 07:35 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@90.218.234.169] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:35 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5adaeaa9.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 07:36 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 07:37 -!- idm [n=i3dmaste@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 07:37 -!- rog [n=rog@89.240.136.210] has joined #go-nuts 07:38 < idm> hmm... what's wrong with this statement "a := os.Getenv("GOBIN") || "/some/custom/path";" 07:39 < emilh_> if it were in C a would be assign to 1? 07:40 < Zeffrin> guessing here but os.Getenv() returns a value... it may be an empty string but its a value 07:40 < idm> its not even compilable. compiler says its an invalid operation 07:40 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5adaeaa9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 07:41 < idm> I read the lang spec, it seems like this is supported 07:42 -!- turutosiya [n=turutosi@219.106.251.65] has joined #go-nuts 07:45 < Zeffrin> yeah true C would assign 1... i know Ive seen that syntax before somewhere though 07:46 < Zeffrin> well not the := but you know what i mean 07:46 < KirkMcDonald> idm: I suspect that || demands boolean operands. 07:47 < Zeffrin> @eval "bla" || "bleh" 07:47 < rndbot> <Error: invalid operation: "bla" || "bleh" (type string || string)> 07:47 < KirkMcDonald> "Logical operators apply to boolean values and yield a result of the same type as the operands." 07:48 < idm> ok make sense 07:48 < idm> though the spec sounds confusing 07:48 < KirkMcDonald> idm: Where? 07:48 < idm> xpression = UnaryExpr | Expression binary_op UnaryExpr 07:48 < idm> binary_op = log_op | com_op | rel_op | add_op | mul_op . 07:49 < KirkMcDonald> The grammar defines what is syntactically correct, and types don't exist until well after the syntax tree has been created. 07:50 < KirkMcDonald> That is, "1 || 2" is technically syntactically correct, but it is still an error. 07:51 < idm> sounds like I need a true/false table for what's true and what's false. Seems like non-nil values do not automatically evaluated as true 07:52 < KirkMcDonald> The expression in an if statement (or any other context which expects a conditional) *must* be a boolean. 07:53 < KirkMcDonald> Go doesn't do what C does, of permitting 0 to be false and other values to be true, or permitting a null pointer as being false, etc. 07:53 < idm> ok 07:53 < idm> I see.. 07:53 < Gracenotes> > stmts, e := parser.ParseStmtList("", `a := os.Getenv("GOBIN") || "/some/custom/path";`); fmt.Print(e) 07:53 < rndbot> <nil> 07:53 < KirkMcDonald> "if err {}" is invalid, you have to explicitly say "if err != nil {}". 07:54 < Zeffrin> > if a := os.Getenv("GOBIN"); a == "" { a = "/other" } fmt.Print(a); 07:54 < rndbot> <Error: undefined: a> 07:54 < Gracenotes> the problem with zero values, e.g. in JavaScript, is that there is always a conundrum that they are still valid values for a given type 07:55 < spikebike> anyone written a google wave bot in go yet? 07:55 < spikebike> anyone need an invite to try? 07:55 < KirkMcDonald> Gracenotes: In some contexts this is the desired behavior. 07:55 < Gracenotes> best to keep things explicit 07:55 < Gracenotes> some cases, but, see ^^ 07:55 < spikebike> somethings been bugging me 07:55 < spikebike> anyone have thoughts on using int vs int32 vs in64? 07:56 < spikebike> (or similar for floats)? 07:56 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: Depends on the context. 07:56 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: "int" is the most suitable type to use as e.g. an array index. 07:56 < Gracenotes> I just use int. keep it simple. and, well, architecture-dependent 07:56 -!- trickie [n=trickie@94.100.112.225] has joined #go-nuts 07:56 < spikebike> KirkMcDonald: on a 64 bit machine is a "int" 32 or 64? 07:57 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: 64 07:57 < spikebike> or is that dependent on the implementation? 07:57 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: If you're representing an IPv4 address, for instance, a uint32 might be suitable (since it is explicitly a 32-bit value). 07:57 < spikebike> is that decided at runtime or compile? 07:57 < KirkMcDonald> Compile-time. 07:57 < spikebike> do in64's work on 32 bit machines? Just more slowly? 07:58 < spikebike> int 07:58 < Zeffrin> so when I have if a:= "bla" { } does a only exist within the scope of the if block? 07:58 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Numeric_types 07:58 < Zeffrin> or not even or? 07:58 < Gracenotes> they're called "longs" in some other programming languages 07:58 < spikebike> long on ia32 = 32 bit 07:58 < KirkMcDonald> Zeffrin: Only within the scope of the if block, yes. 07:58 < Gracenotes> Zeffrin: yes. same with other programming languages and for declarations 07:58 < Zeffrin> kk cool, thanks 07:58 < spikebike> long long = 64 bit ;-) 07:58 < Gracenotes> long long here is 128 07:59 < spikebike> so if distributing source using int's gives you the best of both worlds 07:59 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: An int64 will still be 64-bits, and will still work, when building for a 32-bit target. 07:59 < alc> > if a:="bla"; {} print(a) 07:59 < rndbot> <Error: undefined: a> 07:59 -!- lotrpy [n=lotrpy@202.38.97.230] has quit [] 07:59 < Zeffrin> something about the syntax is still muddling up my brains 07:59 < Gracenotes> actually, not according to most compilers, it seems 07:59 < spikebike> compatibility, and better speed/handle larger numbers on 64 bit 07:59 * Zeffrin apparently not adapt well 07:59 < spikebike> but if distributing binaries you likely either need 2 versions or stick with a 32 bit version 07:59 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: "int" is generally correct, sure. 08:00 < General1337> > a := "bla"; if a == "bla" { print(a) } 08:00 < rndbot> bla 08:00 < General1337> alc ^ 08:00 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: A binary built for a 64-bit target won't work on a 32-bit target in any event. 08:00 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: And vice-versa. 08:00 < Gracenotes> the point of making a declaration in an if statement is to limit the scope 08:00 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: For starters, the pointers will be different sizes. And so on. 08:01 < idm> so looks like in the if statm, te temp var ends its life when the block ends. 08:01 < spikebike> $ ./a.out 08:01 < spikebike> long 4 int 4 long int 4 long long 8 08:01 -!- Zeffrin [n=zeffrin@203.141.132.221.static.zoot.jp] has quit ["time to go home"] 08:01 < spikebike> thats on an IA32 08:02 < Gracenotes> C has this nasty bit of specified-to-be-unspecified there 08:02 < spikebike> $ ./a.out 08:02 < spikebike> long 8 int 4 long int 8 long long 8 08:02 < spikebike> thats x86-64 08:02 < spikebike> (gcc-4.4) 08:02 < KirkMcDonald> spikebike: And the 64-bit case will give different values on Windows, too. 08:02 < spikebike> amusing 08:02 < General1337> who owns rndbot ? 08:02 -!- crashR [n=crasher@codextreme.pck.nerim.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:03 < Gracenotes> *wave* I run it and wrote it 08:03 < Gracenotes> it's on 32-bit machine, though lm-capable.. 08:03 < General1337> > import("http") http.Get("www.google.com \r\n"); 08:03 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near import> 08:03 < General1337> oo 08:04 < Gracenotes> it puts code in a main method. or, for @eval, in a print statement 08:04 < General1337> cool 08:04 < General1337> do you have the source somewhere like github or are u keeping it top secret? 08:04 < KirkMcDonald> Gracenotes: It should have three modes: expression, statement, and file. 08:05 < KirkMcDonald> (Or expression, statement, and declaration, if you like.) 08:05 < Gracenotes> has the format two. file is on the way, although the only thing you're missing is method declarations. that's all. (and imports, but I automatically import certain modules anyway) 08:05 < Gracenotes> *former 08:06 < KirkMcDonald> I am disappointed by the gc make stuff's support for third-party packages. 08:06 < KirkMcDonald> The only way to automatically have it find new packages is to cram them in alongside the standard library, or hack things up in other ways. 08:06 < Gracenotes> General1337: here is the compiling part.. the functionality, essentially. http://gopaste.org/view/C8l0w 08:07 < Gracenotes> planning to get it on Google Code, at the suggestion of.. someone 08:07 < KirkMcDonald> A more expansive package search path would be nice, along with some sort of environment variable for specifying more. 08:08 < General1337> wow Gracenotes, looks like you put a lot of time in this 08:08 -!- Popog [n=Adium@pool-71-121-200-233.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:09 < KirkMcDonald> Heck, even adding a $(GOFLAGS) thing to Make.pkg would do basically everything I want... 08:09 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09 < Gracenotes> I learned a fair amount of Go along the way :) 08:09 < reppie> :) 08:11 < idm> > if p := new([]string); {} println(p) 08:11 < rndbot> <Error: undefined: p> 08:11 < General1337> how does that work 08:11 < idm> even pointer is scoped 08:12 < idm> somehow the runtime knows how to clean that up... 08:12 < Gracenotes> it defines scoping rules in the specification 08:13 < General1337> > import("http"); http.Get("www.google.com \r\n"); 08:13 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near import> 08:14 < KirkMcDonald> idm: It is not a runtime operation. 08:14 < KirkMcDonald> idm: Variable scopes are inherent in the grammar. 08:14 < KirkMcDonald> (That is, Go is lexically scoped.) 08:14 < idm> the object should have been allocated, no? 08:15 < jessta> > http.Get("http://www.google.com \r\n"); 08:15 < rndbot> <Error: undefined: http> 08:15 < KirkMcDonald> idm: This is basically orthogonal to the scope of the variable. 08:16 -!- lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 08:16 -!- nomism [n=nomism@vpn-s-8d3a314a.campus.uni-stuttgart.de] has joined #go-nuts 08:16 -!- nomism [n=nomism@vpn-s-8d3a314a.campus.uni-stuttgart.de] has left #go-nuts ["Verlassend"] 08:16 < idm> right, but when the code execed, a object will be allocated in heap, and the runtime has to know how to clean that up 08:17 < KirkMcDonald> idm: The GC will collect it at some point after there cease to be references to it. 08:18 < idm> so you saying the compiler removes the pointer when the block ends? 08:19 < KirkMcDonald> idm: The variable ceases to exist when the block ends. 08:19 < KirkMcDonald> (It is popped off the stack.) 08:19 < JBeshir> idm: Scope and extant are different things. 08:20 < JBeshir> While the variable's data is GCed at some arbitrary point, the variable's name ceases to be in scope and recognised the moment the block it was declared in ends. 08:21 -!- drry_ [n=drry@unaffiliated/drry] has joined #go-nuts 08:21 < Gracenotes> currently 8g and ilk use mark-and-sweep, I think, the faq says 08:21 -!- drry [n=drry@unaffiliated/drry] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:21 < idm> ok I see. with the GC a runtime behavior and variable removal a compile time 08:22 < KirkMcDonald> idm: That is, the memory to which the variable refers ceases to be something the GC considers as a possible location for a reference to GC-controlled memory after the variable's scope ends. 08:22 < KirkMcDonald> ... if that made any sense. 08:22 * KirkMcDonald fears it did not. 08:23 < idm> I think it does.. :) 08:24 < idm> I had expression since in C, we already have to call free to get rid of the pointer and its not the case in Go because of the GC 08:24 < KirkMcDonald> Oh, yes, you don't have to worry about freeing your pointers in Go. 08:24 < JBeshir> But if you forgot to delete, the pointer still disappeared at the end of the block. :P 08:25 < idm> the scope is the same, the variable is gone, but since Go has GC, we don't have to free anymore where in C, we need to 08:25 < JBeshir> Scope worked the same, yeah. 08:26 < Gracenotes> the problem is that, for concurrent garbage collection, scope isn't enough: something in a separate goroutine may be in another call stack, let alone another scope 08:26 < Gracenotes> the sort of "unsweeping" you do by exiting a function and manually freeing your garbage.. not so clear-cut 08:27 < Gracenotes> so Go is reducing overhead, in that sense -- something you don't often see as a plus for garbage collection :) 08:27 < Gracenotes> (well, hopefully GC will get more efficient in future versions) 08:28 -!- Zeffrin [n=no@110-175-179-56.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 08:30 < idm> so does the GC work the same way as what Java or python do? What's the problem currently it has though? 08:30 < uriel> idm: the current GC is a toy, a completely new concurrent GC is in the works 08:30 < KirkMcDonald> The Python GC is primarily implemented using reference counting. 08:30 < idm> or is there a way say "sorry, turn it off and I will manage my memory myself"? 08:31 < KirkMcDonald> Which is, uh, sub-optimal when it comes to concurrency. 08:31 < Gracenotes> there's not a way to do it so that your code doesn't look like came out of a... uh... thing that produces really ugly things 08:32 < uriel> just have a bit of patience folks! ;) 08:32 < idm> guess so.. 08:32 * Gracenotes is talking about manual memory management 08:33 < Gracenotes> so perhaps they will invent a new compiler approach? bring on the research papers :? 08:33 < Gracenotes> s/compiler/GC/ 08:33 < idm> its trade off.. guess if performance hurts, then something has to be done. after all, Go targets on critical system lang. 08:33 < uriel> Gracenotes: I think the plan is to used something based on IBM's 'recycle' work, no clue about the details 08:34 < Gracenotes> uriel: recycle? is that sort of generational? 08:34 < sladegen> http://www.research.ibm.com/people/d/dfb/papers.html 08:35 < sladegen> this http://www.research.ibm.com/people/d/dfb/papers/Bacon01Concurrent.pdf to be precise... 08:35 < sladegen> oooold technology :/ 08:36 < Gracenotes> hm. Java ones are more optimized towards not-too-rapid heap allocation 08:36 < reppie> nothing is new 08:38 < Gracenotes> and I don't think many JVMs consider languages with the JVM as a specific target. only Java. 08:43 < sladegen> what? there is ruby, python and scheme on jvm at least... iirc. and i'm sure some Ph.D. though of compiling php to java, too. 08:45 -!- knave_ [n=Knave@dsl-240-187-198.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #go-nuts 08:46 < Gracenotes> sladegen: JVMs are written for Java 08:46 -!- Popog [n=Adium@pool-71-121-200-233.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 08:46 < Gracenotes> I don't know of any written for Java *and* other languages which might more efficiently run under other GC schemes, or dispatch schemes, or whathaveyou 08:47 < Gracenotes> one thing to consider when porting a language to it 08:47 -!- tokuhiro________ [i=tokuhiro@114.145.202.135] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:51 -!- kaigan|work [n=kaigan@85.226.144.130] has joined #go-nuts 08:51 -!- dschn [n=dschn@pool-70-19-202-109.bos.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 08:52 -!- p0g0_ [n=pogo@unaffiliated/p0g0] has joined #go-nuts 08:56 -!- p0g0 [n=pogo@unaffiliated/p0g0] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 09:02 -!- pilt [n=pilt@h-60-10.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #go-nuts 09:04 -!- JoLeClodo [n=JoLeClod@88.191.33.32] has joined #go-nuts 09:07 * uriel adds more libs to go-lang.cat-v.org ... 09:09 -!- knave [n=Knave@dsl-240-187-198.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 09:09 -!- turutosiya [n=turutosi@219.106.251.65] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:11 < exch> moar! :O 09:20 -!- rrr [i=rrr@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9230E18F] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:25 -!- peter-k [n=petergre@117.136.19.3] has joined #go-nuts 09:26 < peter-k> any nuts here? 09:26 < peter-k> 8-) 09:27 < jessta> yes 09:27 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has joined #go-nuts 09:27 < Gracenotes> the channel sponsor is Planters 09:30 < peter-k> how are you jessta 09:30 < jessta> caffinated 09:30 < jessta> I was thinking about having curry for dinner, but I think I might have eggs 09:31 < peter-k> eggs good 09:32 < peter-k> what are you gonna do fried eggs 09:32 < jessta> boiled eggs 09:32 < jessta> too lazy to fry them 09:32 -!- octoploid [n=octoploi@77-22-106-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 09:32 < jessta> the chickens in my backyard keep making eggs so someone has to eat them 09:33 < peter-k> people is only need one egg per day more is harmful 09:33 < jessta> I 09:33 < jessta> I'm pretty sure that's not true 09:33 < peter-k> you have a backyard ,great. 09:33 < peter-k> where are you ? 09:34 < peter-k> i just read from some book 09:34 < peter-k> maybe it's not true 09:34 < jessta> it's old information 09:34 < jessta> I'm in melborne,australia 09:35 < peter-k> i heard of that 09:35 < peter-k> nice place 09:35 < jessta> indeed 09:35 -!- rrr [i=rrr@gateway/gpg-tor/key-0x9230E18F] has joined #go-nuts 09:35 < peter-k> the room is full of people 09:36 < peter-k> but few people taiks 09:36 < peter-k> talks 09:38 < jessta> peter-k: do you go? 09:40 < peter-k> i am back now 09:40 < peter-k> hi 09:41 < peter-k> my father was back . 09:42 -!- octoploid [n=octoploi@77-22-106-65-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #go-nuts ["WeeChat 0.3.1-dev"] 09:43 < peter-k> are you cooking your eggs? 09:43 < peter-k> i want to eat 09:43 < jessta> peter-k: do you code in go? 09:43 < peter-k> ;) 09:43 < peter-k> what is code in go ? jessta 09:44 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has quit ["Leaving"] 09:44 < peter-k> i am not gonna leaving 09:44 < jessta> ah, I see. You just randomly came here? 09:44 < Peter-> Sometimes IRC really makes me loose faith in humanity 09:45 < peter-k> yes jessta 09:45 < jessta> Peter-: you should try going outside, it's far worse 09:45 < peter-k> i found the room is interesting 09:45 < TenOfTen> peter-k: read topic 09:46 < Peter-> jessta: I'm in Amsterdam most of the time, have to admit there's lots of weird things around 09:46 < peter-k> i don't get TenOfTen 09:46 < TenOfTen> peter-k: this channel is about http://golang.org 09:47 < peter-k> it's a room for computer tech? 09:48 -!- p4p4 [n=P4p4@82.113.121.24] has joined #go-nuts 09:48 < TenOfTen> peter-k: channel* but yes 09:49 < peter-k> then the only thing talked is computer ? 09:49 < peter-k> stuff 09:49 -!- simonz05 [n=simon@143.84-49-89.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 09:50 < peter-k> huh? 09:50 < peter-k> help me jessta 09:50 < peter-k> what is room exactly for ? 09:50 < Fatal_> normally to put furniture in 09:50 < peter-k> only computer stuff? 09:51 < Fatal_> most people would have their computer in a dedicated computer room, some keep them in the living room and some in the bed room 09:51 < Fatal_> where you put yours is entirely up to you and your family 09:51 < Ibw> peter-k: golang.org 09:51 < peter-k> :o 09:51 < Ibw> ah 09:51 < Ibw> someone already linked 09:52 < TenOfTen> /nick someone 09:52 < Ibw> heh 09:52 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@c-68-58-17-177.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 09:52 < Fatal_> Ibw: ITYM everyone already linked :) 09:53 -!- alc [n=alc@222.128.131.226] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 09:54 -!- Ibw [n=isaac@cpe-67-241-42-134.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:02 -!- triplez [n=triplez@124.155.195.7] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 -!- peter-k [n=petergre@117.136.19.3] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 10:05 -!- malkomalko [n=malkomal@69.113.89.202] has joined #go-nuts 10:06 -!- slashus2 [n=slashus2@74-137-26-8.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 10:09 -!- rup [i=Rupert@78.159.100.189] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:09 -!- rup [i=Rupert@78.159.100.189] has joined #go-nuts 10:15 -!- silv3r_m00n [n=enlighte@59.93.214.88] has joined #go-nuts 10:15 -!- dju [i=dju@ip-39.net-80-236-37.suresnes.rev.numericable.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 10:22 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@81.154.246.241] has joined #go-nuts 10:30 -!- minwi [n=minwi@195.34.70.90] has joined #go-nuts 10:36 -!- silv3r_m00n [n=enlighte@59.93.214.88] has left #go-nuts [] 10:37 < anticw> damnit, im seriously mentally defective right now 10:37 < anticw> the hg change/submit process is confusing the crap out of me if i change my email address 10:38 < exDM69> anticw: what has your e-mail address got to do with it? 10:38 < exDM69> you set your credentials in the hg user prefs 10:38 < exDM69> and use your repository username/password when pushing 10:38 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5adaeaa9.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 10:39 < anticw> .hgrc having my preferred email addy wants me in CONTRIBUTORS ... which seems silly for tiny whitespace stuff 10:39 < anticw> w/o that it does everything from my gmail account which i never use 10:40 < anticw> the last time i did this it was fine, not sure why im retarded right now 10:40 < anticw> i ended up sending 2-3 broken things to review which i closed/killed and realized it spammed the list 10:42 < anticw> hmm... now i have something there, and it's not clear what i did this time 10:42 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 10:44 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@200.160.16.18] has joined #go-nuts 10:46 -!- maacl [n=mac@87.53.38.200] has joined #go-nuts 10:54 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@81.154.246.241] has quit [] 10:56 -!- drry_ [n=drry@unaffiliated/drry] has quit ["Tiarra 0.1+svn-35634M: SIGTERM received; exit"] 10:58 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has joined #go-nuts 11:00 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5adaeaa9.bb.sky.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:06 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has joined #go-nuts 11:09 -!- odemia_ [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has joined #go-nuts 11:10 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 11:12 -!- SRabbelier [n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #go-nuts 11:13 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:13 < p4p4> hi folks, yesterday someone was talking about an sdl-package, can't find it... 11:14 < knave_> http://github.com/banthar/Go-SDL 11:14 -!- synx` [n=aaa@173-8-153-35-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:17 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@82.113.106.24] has joined #go-nuts 11:19 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:22 < TenOfTen> is that banthar guy here? 11:25 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:26 -!- Odemia [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:27 < p4p4_> TenOfTen: ahh, i just found it. thanks anyway. 11:28 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:28 -!- XniX23 [n=XniX23@89-212-10-29.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:31 -!- trez [n=trez@89.233.232.78] has joined #go-nuts 11:37 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@212-198-164-142.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 11:37 -!- trickie [n=trickie@94.100.112.225] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:37 -!- p4p4 [n=P4p4@82.113.121.24] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:38 -!- chid [n=ppwryktv@c122-106-95-175.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [] 11:38 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@129.70.166.52] has joined #go-nuts 11:40 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 11:42 -!- trickie [n=trickie@94.100.112.225] has joined #go-nuts 11:46 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@132.252.242.39] has joined #go-nuts 11:51 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@132.252.250.201] has joined #go-nuts 11:52 -!- dschn [n=dschn@pool-70-22-163-173.bos.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:52 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@132.252.250.201] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:53 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242039.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:58 < uriel> p4p4_: if you are looking for bindings, always check http://go-lang.cat-v.org/library-bindings 11:59 -!- Fraeon [n=kzer-za@212.246.65.153] has joined #go-nuts 11:59 < p4p4_> uriel: nice link! thanks 12:00 < uriel> no problem 12:00 -!- maacl [n=mac@87.53.38.200] has quit [] 12:02 -!- Rob_Russell [n=chatzill@206-248-157-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:03 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242039.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit ["Arr"] 12:03 < TenOfTen> good one 12:03 < TenOfTen> too bad it's so short :) but im expecting it to grow 12:05 < uriel> what is short? 12:05 < TenOfTen> heh, the list of libs 12:05 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #go-nuts 12:06 < TenOfTen> i have a long wish list 12:06 < uriel> are you serious? its been barely two weeks! its been more than one lib per day! 12:06 < TenOfTen> sorry, i didnt know 12:06 < uriel> and it is not like the libs included with Go are not qiute considerable on their own either.. 12:12 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@132.252.242.39] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:12 -!- snearch [n=olaf@e179133069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:13 < nickjohnson> uriel: So I think I know how to do Go's interfaces in .NET, with one exception 12:13 < nickjohnson> How do you handle the case when you have a library A, which has an interface X, a library B, which doesn't, and a library C, which attempts to pass something from B to A? 12:13 -!- freshup [n=adam@24.161.167.248] has quit [] 12:13 < nickjohnson> Eg, when library B was compiled, it didn't know about A's interface, even though a class in it (implicitly) implements it 12:14 -!- triplez [n=triplez@124.155.195.7] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:14 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@132.252.242.21] has joined #go-nuts 12:15 < uriel> nickjohnson: hah! awesome! 12:15 -!- jA_cOp [n=yakobu@ti0043a380-3093.bb.online.no] has joined #go-nuts 12:16 < nickjohnson> The only way I can think around it is having the library C construct a wrapper for B's class, which implements the interface - but that destroys object identity 12:16 < uriel> nickjohnson: I'm not sure I understand the question (my fault), but I think interfaces are only checked at compile time, so... 12:17 -!- crashR [n=crasher@78.250.176.9] has joined #go-nuts 12:17 < uriel> nickjohnson: isn't the whole point of interfaces in go that the writer of a type doesn't need to know about the interfaces it implements? 12:18 < uriel> as long as the interface signatures match, you are go 12:19 -!- triplez [n=triplez@124.155.195.7] has joined #go-nuts 12:24 -!- dat99rmo [n=dat99rmo@212.85.89.41] has joined #go-nuts 12:26 -!- lux` [n=lux@151.54.240.211] has joined #go-nuts 12:27 -!- AmirMohammad [n=amir@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has joined #go-nuts 12:31 < nickjohnson> uriel: Let me give a concrete example 12:31 < nickjohnson> Library 'fmt' defines an interface 'Stringer' and a method 'Printf(x Stringer)' 12:32 < nickjohnson> Library 'MyThing' defines a class that exports a 'String()' function, but has never heard of the 'Stringer' interface 12:32 < nickjohnson> In the .NET runtime, you have to declare the interfaces you implement at compile time, but the 'MyThing' library can't declare its class as implementing 'Stringer' 12:33 < jessta> I don' 12:33 < nickjohnson> So when I write a function that tries to pass MyThing's object instance to 'fmt's method, it fails 12:33 < jessta> t thin you can use interfaces from different packages 12:33 < nickjohnson> jessta: In Go? It would be a bit pointless if you couldn't. 12:35 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@132.252.242.21] has quit ["Arr"] 12:38 < Zeffrin> oh that clicking sound coming from my data drive is making me want to cry, sorry to veer off topic but I need to share my sadness and everyone else here went to bed :) 12:38 < murodese> i've had 3 go in the last week the same way :3 12:39 < Zeffrin> manage to get your data back? 12:39 < murodese> nope 12:39 < murodese> lost it all 12:39 -!- Sylvain_ [i=d4528311@gateway/web/freenode/x-cmpoecbfytyonpsq] has joined #go-nuts 12:39 < murodese> a 500gb, 320gb and 200gb 12:39 < Zeffrin> ow :( 12:40 < murodese> nothing i couldn't afford to lose though 12:40 < Zeffrin> im just going to turn this machine off until I get another drive, hopefully at the very least will get to keep my uni work 12:42 < jessta> nickjohnson: why couldn't you make MyThing implement the 'Stringer' interface? 12:43 < nickjohnson> jessta: Because when compiling library 'MyThing', I don't know about the existence of the 'Stringer' interface 12:43 < uriel> nickjohnson: ah, you are just explaining how .net's interfaces are different, well, is there no way to bypass that? 12:43 < nickjohnson> And when compiling something that uses both, it's too late. 12:43 < nickjohnson> uriel: The only way I can think of is to have the compiler construct a proxy object that implements 'Stringer' and wraps the 'MyThing' object 12:44 < nickjohnson> The same would be necessary, I think, when using Go's support for "type Foo Bar" and defining new methods on Foo 12:44 < uriel> nickjohnson: isn't there anything like the empty interface in .net which you can reduce all interfaces to? 12:44 < uriel> you would have to do all the type system on your own instead of relying on .net's 12:44 < nickjohnson> uriel: Yes, but then you've reduced Go to a dynamic language, and you'd have to use reflection at runtime and other nasty stuff to access methods on an interface 12:45 < nickjohnson> And you've thrown away all the performance of being statically typechecked 12:45 < uriel> well, you could just not check anything at runtime 12:45 < uriel> (not sure how technically feasible that would be) 12:45 < nickjohnson> .NET doesn't work that way - to encode a method call in the IL, you have to have a handle to its type 12:45 < uriel> oh well... 12:46 < nickjohnson> I think dynamically creating wrappers is the only way to go about it 12:46 < uriel> still, the question was how to make it run on .net, not how to make it fast ;) 12:46 < uriel> if you want it to be fast, why bother running it on .net ;P 12:46 < nickjohnson> Yeah, but it's not worth implementing if you're basically interpreting it. :P 12:46 < nickjohnson> uriel: Knock knock 12:46 < uriel> heh 12:46 < nickjohnson> You're supposed to reply with "who's there?" 12:47 < uriel> I have no clue what is that about :) 12:47 < nickjohnson> You've never heard a knock knock joke? 12:47 < uriel> nope 12:47 * uriel is culturally illiterate 12:47 < nickjohnson> heh, never mind, then 12:48 < Zeffrin> > fmt.Print("Who's there nickjohnson?"); 12:48 < rndbot> Who's there nickjohnson? 12:48 < nickjohnson> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock-knock_joke 12:48 < nickjohnson> <extremely long pause> 12:48 < nickjohnson> Java. 12:48 -!- knave_ [n=Knave@dsl-240-187-198.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:48 < nickjohnson> It kind of works better in person ;) 12:50 -!- knave [n=Knave@41.240.187.198] has joined #go-nuts 12:52 < Zeffrin> go is making me feel like i should rethink trying to be a programmer... this afternoon I saw the concurrent prime seive example in the spec 12:52 < Zeffrin> I can basically see how its working but I don't _really_ understand how it's working 12:52 < Zeffrin> some nifty voodoo tho, ill give it that 12:53 -!- keeto [n=keeto@121.54.92.149] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 12:55 -!- keeto [n=keeto@74.115.0.37] has joined #go-nuts 12:56 < XniX23> Zeffrin: as far as i know, there are no "good" tutorials for go yet 12:57 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 12:57 -!- gcopenhaver [n=greg@c-98-250-49-37.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:58 < mikedee_> Java who?! 12:58 < uriel> Zeffrin: it is *really* simple! think of it as a stack of sieves 12:59 < Zeffrin> aye nothing aimed at beginner enough for me yet though I have to admit, I need to finish reading through what is there so far *grumble work takin up my time* 13:00 < uriel> Go is really making me rethink my plans to quit my carrier as programmer, maybe there is hope after all 13:00 < uriel> the tutorial is not too bad 13:00 < Zeffrin> yah uriel but with the channel thing... do the channels created in sieve only live for on value or? 13:00 < uriel> and the 3-day-course slides are great 13:00 < XniX23> yes the slides are the best so far 13:00 < uriel> Zeffrin: no! the channels pass the values from one filter to the next 13:00 -!- keeto_ [n=keeto@121.54.92.149] has joined #go-nuts 13:01 < XniX23> why quit :o 13:01 < uriel> the slides are really great, wish there was video of the acompagnining talks... 13:01 < Zeffrin> slides, hrm, ok these i havent seen yet 13:01 < uriel> XniX23: because things have just been getting worse and worse for almost forty years in the software industry 13:02 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@129.70.166.52] has quit [] 13:03 < XniX23> i feel like a baby on this channel 13:03 < Zeffrin> same 13:03 < XniX23> Zeffrin: age? 13:03 < Zeffrin> 28 heh 13:03 < XniX23> i still feel that way :p 13:04 * uriel is only 27 13:04 < XniX23> uriel: oh, thought you were older, my bad 13:04 < oklokok> lol you're so old you could grow a beard. 13:05 * uriel used to have a rather long 'Unix guru beard', but it was a huge pain 13:05 < nickjohnson> It just occurred to me that the prime filter example is just as simple in Python: http://pastebin.com/m5948fc7f 13:06 < nickjohnson> Except for the bit where you explode the stack ;) 13:06 < oklokok> i just let all my body hair grow naturally, it's only a pain if you don't like to look like a bum 13:07 < Zeffrin> for me it's because Im inexperienced... funny though, i wrote my first program at age 8 and studied some C right out of highschool... I've always wanted to get into development and over the years have put together a few small tools in my employment but, pretty much I've just bounced around in support roles for the last 10 years 13:08 -!- snearch [n=olaf@e179133069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:08 -!- keeto [n=keeto@74.115.0.37] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:08 < Zeffrin> went back to uni 2 years ago and got high distinction for foundation programming and full marks + bonus in algorithms & data structures but no completed degree so never found my chance to go into professional software devel, just always been a hobby for me 13:08 < XniX23> i started 2 years ago on my college, and im 21 :\ wish i started way sooner tho 13:09 < Zeffrin> if you love it, and are fortunate to have time to throw at it you'll become good I think 13:10 < Zeffrin> I've heard starting young is very helpful but hasn't helped me none 13:10 -!- Nanoo [n=Nano@95-89-198-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 13:11 < Zeffrin> if you're still studying, finish your degree... for the first year or two I helped some of my friends digest some concepts of programming and after they graduated they started on double my salary 13:11 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@129.70.166.52] has joined #go-nuts 13:12 < melba> Zeffrin, you can probably find a job without the degree, show them some skillz 13:12 < XniX23> Zeffrin: i live in slovenia... we are the country that has the least difference in salaries... 13:12 < XniX23> yep, melba is right 13:12 -!- tomestla [n=tom@78.251.221.179] has joined #go-nuts 13:12 < Zeffrin> aye melba I hope so, im starting to put together an online resume with some projects I've thrown together at work recently 13:13 -!- BMeph [n=black_me@65.103.151.24] has quit [Connection timed out] 13:13 -!- knave [n=Knave@41.240.187.198] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:13 < Zeffrin> my current employer has an applications team developing some tools but mainly our POS system which currently is very buggy.. I know I could make a difference there, they only have one other full time programmer and he asks me for help but I only started a year ago 13:14 < Zeffrin> I'm desperately trying to prove it'd be worth their while to move me over into apps 13:14 < melba> can't you reapply for a new job position? 13:14 < melba> take the interview and everything 13:15 < melba> doesn't matter if it's the same employer 13:15 -!- knave [n=Knave@41.240.187.198] has joined #go-nuts 13:16 < Zeffrin> aye but they're not advertising, a lot of the team know I should be programming because they've seen some of the tools I did but we previously had a CIO who was a bit of a tool 13:16 < melba> aha 13:16 < Zeffrin> he got fired 2 weeks ago because "he didnt fit our value of integrity" so 13:16 < Zeffrin> things are looking up 13:17 < Zeffrin> wish me luck eh, if the executive team agree to start a new POS project I should be included, just a matter of whether they can be convinced our current one is losing us enough money to warrant the expense 13:18 < Zeffrin> silly though I dunno who coded it... it was done on .net 1.0 which is all fine except, the developer didn't bother handling any exceptions 13:18 < Zeffrin> any unexpected condition and the store teams have to log out of the system and log back in to get the boot script to reload it 13:19 < Zeffrin> costing us a fortune in time across all our stores averaging 2-3 reload of the POS system per register, per day 13:19 < Zeffrin> plus its pretty bad telling customers at the counter like "oh im sorry, this'll just be a moment our system crashed again" 13:19 < Zeffrin> "your eftpos went through but I'll just need a minute to reprocess the sale to get you a receipt, sorry" 13:20 < Zeffrin> and hmmm, my appologies for whining 13:20 < Zeffrin> hittin the bourbon tonight lol 13:20 -!- XniX23 [n=XniX23@89-212-10-29.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:24 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:24 -!- XniX23 [n=XniX23@89.212.10.29] has joined #go-nuts 13:25 < XniX23> ok... i find something really weird... 13:25 < Zeffrin> ? 13:26 < XniX23> i have 2 functions Rotate90 and Rotate90Inv... it ran ok but when i changed name so Rotate90 was Rotate90Inv and Rotate90Inv -> Rotate90... and ran the program, when it was supposed to use it, my pc freezed 13:26 -!- loureiro [n=loureiro@189.2.128.130] has joined #go-nuts 13:27 < XniX23> and thats not the first time that happened :\ 13:32 -!- barnex [n=quassel@gast057c.ugent.be] has joined #go-nuts 13:32 -!- triplez [n=triplez@124.155.195.7] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:33 -!- barnex [n=quassel@gast057c.ugent.be] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:34 < XniX23> Click: 175 393 13:34 < XniX23> mmap: errno=0xc 13:34 < XniX23> is that coz it eats too much ram? 13:35 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 13:36 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #go-nuts 13:36 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@24.30.132.50] has quit [] 13:37 < KragenSitaker> XniX23: least difference in salaries between what? 13:37 < KragenSitaker> grads and non-grads? 13:37 -!- path[l] [n=path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:39 -!- Gussi [n=gussi@gussi.is] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:39 -!- Gussi [n=gussi@85.197.213.11] has joined #go-nuts 13:40 < XniX23> KragenSitaker: Yes that too... after i graduate (programmer) i was told im going that have on average 200€ more than someone who graduated from geography etc. 13:40 < XniX23> that = to 13:45 -!- path[l] [n=path@122.182.0.38] has joined #go-nuts 13:46 -!- rakd [n=rakd@219.117.252.7.static.zoot.jp] has joined #go-nuts 13:48 -!- tomestla [n=tom@78.251.221.179] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 13:48 -!- knave [n=Knave@41.240.187.198] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)] 13:52 -!- knave [n=Knave@dsl-240-187-198.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #go-nuts 13:52 < nickjohnson> uriel: Hm, another barrier: Strings in .net are character strings, but in Go they're byte strings - sort of. 13:53 -!- hipe [n=hipe@c-24-11-83-170.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:54 -!- tor7 [n=tor@c-987a71d5.04-50-6c756e10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 13:54 -!- tokuhiro________ [i=tokuhiro@p4227-ipbf1808marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 13:56 -!- jdp [n=gu@75.97.120.11] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 -!- General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:09 -!- General1337 [n=support@71.84.247.187] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 14:10 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@88.84.156.71] has left #go-nuts [] 14:10 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@88.84.156.71] has joined #go-nuts 14:11 -!- knave [n=Knave@dsl-240-187-198.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16 < uriel> nickjohnson: well, there should be a way to have byte strings in .net, I hope 14:17 < nickjohnson> uriel: Byte arrays, yes. But Go strings are weird. 14:17 < nickjohnson> You don't really want all your arguments to be byte arrays, for example, and iterating over a string is... complicated to implement 14:18 < uriel> :/ 14:19 -!- malkomalko [n=malkomal@69.113.89.202] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 14:19 -!- malkomalko_ [n=malkomal@69.113.89.202] has joined #go-nuts 14:21 -!- e1f [n=user@141.117.1.154] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:23 -!- pdusen [n=pdusen@68-188-190-192.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:26 -!- chachan [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has joined #go-nuts 14:30 < nickjohnson> Do all strings in Go have to be valid utf-8? 14:33 < uriel> nickjohnson: deffine 'have to' 14:34 < uriel> I think they are *supposed* to be 14:34 < uriel> but invalid chars wont break anything 14:34 < nickjohnson> uriel: Will the compiler throw an error if a string literal isn't utf-8? Waht about if I try and construct one at runtime? 14:34 < nickjohnson> And what if I try to iterate over one 14:34 < uriel> I think the compiler will probably complain, I think you might be able to mess things up at runtime if you try hard enough 14:35 < uriel> well, utf-8 by its own nature can handle invalid chars fairly well 14:35 -!- Peter` [n=peter@92.254.21.251] has joined #go-nuts 14:35 < nickjohnson> uriel: It can? How so? 14:36 < uriel> it is easy to find where the next valid char starts 14:36 -!- aa [n=aa@r190-135-138-72.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:36 < nickjohnson> Sure, but it can still have invalid characters 14:37 < uriel> obviously, I didn't say it couldn't, just that it is not a disaster 14:37 < uriel> if an utf-32 (and much worse an utf-16) gets corrupted, you are FUBAR 14:37 < nickjohnson> Only if a byte gets inserted or deleted 14:38 < uriel> yea, but it is hard to know if that has happened or not 14:38 -!- Perberos [n=Perberos@190.49.21.28] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 14:38 < uriel> with utf-8, you don't have to worry, you 're-sync' naturally 14:38 < nickjohnson> That's why I think utf-8 is a good transfer encoding, but utf-32 makes much more sense as a memory representation 14:39 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@129.70.166.52] has quit [] 14:39 < uriel> well, that depends on the task, as some have pointed on the mailing list, unless you are writting a text editor, most things that can be done simply in utf-32 (or Runes), can be done on utf-8 14:39 < uriel> plus utf-8 uses less cache, so it could actually be more efficient 14:39 < uriel> (in the common case anyway) 14:40 < nickjohnson> Cache size of text strings is rarely a performance bottleneck, I think 14:40 < nickjohnson> And the main issue is that people expect ot be able to index characters in a string in O(1) 14:40 < uriel> maybe not, but you still can fit much more utf-8 text than utf-32 text 14:41 < nickjohnson> fmt.Printf("%s", "\xE2\x82\xAC"); 14:41 < nickjohnson> uriel: So? :) 14:41 < nickjohnson> > fmt.Printf("%s", "\xE2\x82\xAC"); 14:41 < rndbot> € 14:41 < uriel> anyway, I'm just saying that utf-8 does make sense for in-memory work too, just not for everything 14:41 < nickjohnson> > fmt.Printf("%s", "\xE2\x82!"); 14:41 < rndbot> â‚! 14:42 < nickjohnson> Okay, that's definitely not a valid unicode character 14:42 < nickjohnson> uriel: But you need your language to work "for everything", generally 14:42 < uriel> nickjohnson: that is why Go has runes 14:42 < uriel> for when you need them, which again is not very often 14:42 < nickjohnson> Personally, though, I think the language should specify character strings, and byte arrays, and how to convert between them, but the in-memory encoding should be irrelevant to the language spec 14:42 < nickjohnson> runes? I haven't seen that 14:43 < nickjohnson> 'rune' doesn't match in the language spec anywhere... 14:43 < nickjohnson> ... or in the standard library 14:43 < uriel> (and note that utf-8 *works* all the time, it just might be slow to index in *very* long strings, but that is a fairly rare case, and agian there are runes if you really need that, 14:44 < uriel> plus you can keep an array with indexes to points in the string if you want to speed up indexing in a very long string, so there are many options to deal with this problem) 14:44 < nickjohnson> Like I said, I'd prefer that a language have an explicit distinction between 'characters' and 'bytes', and leave the choice of in-memory encoding up to the implementation. 14:44 < nickjohnson> Programs shouldn't need to be aware of it 14:44 < nickjohnson> uriel: Again, where are these runes you speak of? 14:44 < uriel> nickjohnson: sure it does, http://golang.org/pkg/utf8/ 14:45 -!- Peter- [n=peter@92.254.21.251] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:45 < uriel> and read Rob and Ken's original UTF-8 paper: http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/utf 14:45 < uriel> it also covers runes 14:45 < nickjohnson> okay, so it's a library module 14:45 < uriel> (although runes originally were 16bit, and now they are 32bit in Go) 14:46 < nickjohnson> Still doesn't answer my criticism about the conflation of bytes and characters. :) 14:46 < uriel> what criticism? 14:46 < uriel> and what conflation? 14:46 -!- scandal [n=nobody@unaffiliated/scandal] has joined #go-nuts 14:46 < vsmatck> Does that need language support? Can it be done on the library level? 14:47 < nickjohnson> Strings are byte strings, when you're indexing them, and utf-8 strings when you're enumerating over them 14:47 < uriel> hey scandal 14:47 < nickjohnson> And the encoding the compiler uses matters to the library, when really it shouldn't 14:47 < uriel> nickjohnson: no, in Go they are unicode-codepoint-strings (ie., utf-8) 14:47 < nickjohnson> s/compiler/runtime/ 14:47 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@200.160.16.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:47 < nickjohnson> uriel: No, if they were that, indexing them would return a codepoint 14:47 < uriel> nickjohnson: are strings byte arrays when you index them? 14:47 < nickjohnson> yes. 14:48 < nickjohnson> immutable byte arrays, rather 14:48 < uriel> oh well, don't index them then ;P 14:48 < nickjohnson> Then why offer the option? 14:48 < uriel> (unless you know what you are doing) 14:48 < nickjohnson> > fmt.Printf("%d", len("\xE2\x82\xAC"")); 14:48 < rndbot> <Error: newline in string, syntax error near "<string>"> 14:48 < nickjohnson> oops 14:48 < nickjohnson> > fmt.Printf("%d", len("\xE2\x82\xAC")); 14:48 < rndbot> 3 14:49 < uriel> nickjohnson: it is the old Unix adage: UNIX was not designed to stop its users from doing stupid things, as that would also stop them from doing clever things. 14:49 < uriel> — Doug Gwyn 14:49 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@200.160.16.18] has joined #go-nuts 14:49 < nickjohnson> uriel: That doesn't mean you can't design your language better 14:49 < uriel> how would be better? 14:49 < nickjohnson> Indexing a string is either a) not supported or b) returns a codepoint 14:50 < uriel> nickjohnson: how not supporting indexing of a string would be 'better'?!? 14:50 < nickjohnson> Iteration likewise iterates over characters - and with indexing returning codepoints, there'd be no need to provide the byte offset, either - or for programs to care about the internal encoding 14:50 < nickjohnson> uriel: Because it eliminates this schitzophrenic view of strings as sometimes-bytes, sometimes-codepoints. I would far prefer option b, however. 14:50 < uriel> it is useful in many cases, as again has been pointe dout repetatedly, many algorithms that work on ascii strings work on utf-8 strings, and to index the bytes that made up that string is helpful to do that 14:51 < nickjohnson> What would you use string indexing, as it currently exists, for? 14:51 < uriel> nickjohnson: substring matching for example? 14:51 < uriel> all kinds of things really 14:51 < nickjohnson> uriel: Then you'll match partial unicode characters, potentially 14:51 < uriel> I'm sure a regexp lib would make considerable use of it 14:52 < p4p4_> hi, i'm playing around with some library bindings(sdl,cairo), and i always get the same cgo error: 'dwarf.Type TTF_Font reports unknown size'. (TTF_Font is : 'typedef struct _TTF_FONT TTF_Font;') 14:52 < uriel> nickjohnson: if the string you are matching against has partial unicode characters... 14:52 < uriel> nickjohnson: nothing wrong with that 14:52 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@68.58.17.177] has joined #go-nuts 14:52 < nickjohnson> It could do all that if it was indexing codepoints, too - and quite likely with fewer problems 14:53 < uriel> nickjohnson: except that indexing unicode codepoints == iterating over the string, that is why iteration works 14:53 < nickjohnson> uriel: But that's a separate issue - I'm asking about the usefulness of indexing the string, not iterating over it 14:53 < uriel> nickjohnson: if you want to play with bytes, use array indexing, if you want to play with codepoints, iterate, that is how it works, it is simple, efficient and clean 14:54 < tor7> you're arguing in favor of the way Java does strings... and we all know how broken that is. not to mention opening the big can of encoding worms. 14:54 < uriel> nickjohnson: it is useful as I said to implement all kinds of things, among them pretty much anything that worked for C ascii strings 14:54 < uriel> and now I need to have lunch ;P 14:54 < nickjohnson> uriel: Why would you want to 'play with bytes' in an immutable utf-8 string, though? 14:54 < uriel> tor7: exactly 14:54 < nickjohnson> tor7: No, how broken is it? 14:54 < tor7> I for one am perfectly pleased with utf-8 strings 14:54 < uriel> nickjohnson: again, for all kinds of stuff, write a regexp lib and find out 14:54 < nickjohnson> uriel: No, because if you do "anything that worked for c ascii strings", you'll break unicode support in your app 14:55 < nickjohnson> uriel: All of which could be accomplished better if indexing returned codepoints 14:55 < uriel> nickjohnson: no you wont 14:55 < tor7> and if I need codepoints, I will do "type Runestring []uint32" 14:55 < uriel> nickjohnson: to index by codepoints *you have to iterate!* 14:55 < nickjohnson> uriel: That's _not_indexing_ 14:55 < uriel> tor7: exactly! 14:56 < uriel> nickjohnson: that is how utf-8 strings work! if you don't like it, use an array of Runes as tor7 said! 14:56 < nickjohnson> uriel: And my point is that life would be easier all around if Go strings didn't behave as utf-8 bytestrings, but rather as character strings. 14:56 * uriel goes huntting 14:56 < nickjohnson> tor7: Really, how are Java strings broken? 14:56 < uriel> nickjohnson: *wrong*, I like utf-8 strings, and I don't want runes 95% of the time 14:57 < uriel> nickjohnson: Java Strings are broken in pretty much every imaginable way 14:57 < tor7> there's a bit of obnoxiousness involved in the design. unicode is here, it has won, let's all stop this encoding insanity and all agree to use utf-8 14:57 < nickjohnson> uriel: Then show me a case where returning a byte from indexing is _better_ than returning a character 14:57 < uriel> tor7: amen 14:57 < tor7> which is a sentiment I wholly stand behind 14:57 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 14:58 < nickjohnson> tor7: I agree entirely - but part of not caring about encoding is not having to deal with it at all. If everything is a character, you don't have to care about encoding at all. 14:59 < tor7> so that you can implement the utf-8 stuff in the runtime you need access to the underlying bytes. you also need to be able to deal with encoding errors and resync if you're getting data in chunks 14:59 -!- jdp [n=gu@75.97.120.11] has quit [] 14:59 < uriel> nickjohnson: you might not care, but some people do, why can't you just leave them alone? 14:59 < nickjohnson> You can get all that by using your runtime's string support to convert to/from byte arrays 14:59 < uriel> tor7: ah, that too, to implement the Go runtime in Go, you want that too 15:00 < nickjohnson> uriel: I don't want to have to care about encoding issues. That doesn't mean I don't care about how strings are represented in a language. I care very much. 15:00 < tor7> even if os.Read returned a buffer that was split in the middle of a utf-8 character? 15:00 < nickjohnson> tor7: Instantiate an 'encoding' object, feed it with bytes, and let it care about state 15:00 < uriel> nickjohnson: but you are not asking for the way strings are represented to be changed, you are asking for it to be impossible for people that care to access it directly 15:01 < tor7> *shudders* not the way I would do it, and that makes the language even more dependent on library design 15:01 < uriel> nickjohnson: I don't want to instantiate an encoding object every time I read a string, that is what makes python and java string handling such a fucking nightmare 15:01 < nickjohnson> uriel: No - if you care, you convert it to a byte array in whatever encoding you need. 15:01 < uriel> I just need utf-8, and I'm happy with that 15:01 < nickjohnson> uriel: You don't - you just need to call String(some_bytes) or somesuch 15:02 < nickjohnson> You'd only need an encoding object if you wanted to decode a stream of bytes progressively 15:02 < uriel> (unless the reare ocasion when I need Runes, in which case I convert to a rune array, and that is it) 15:02 < tor7> as it is, the actual language doesn't know about the meaning of strings. it's just an array of bytes until it hits the fmt library where convention dictates that it it utf-8 15:02 < nickjohnson> tor7: Or you iterate over them, which is a core part of the language. 15:02 < uriel> tor7: well, iterate knows... 15:03 < uriel> but that is a handy bit of sugar 15:03 -!- malkomalko [n=malkomal@69.113.89.202] has quit [] 15:03 < nbaum> func Encode (text string, encoding string) []byte 15:03 < nbaum> Seems reasonably obvious. No need for a song-and-dance about it. 15:03 < nickjohnson> indeed 15:04 < nickjohnson> uriel: A single plausible use case about why indexing a string by byte would be more useful than by character would go some of the way to convincing me... 15:05 < nbaum> It would be very useful if strings were arrays of characters. OTOH, I would want Ѡ̀ (capital omega, combining grave accent) to be a single character for most purposes. It doesn't exist as a single codepoint, though. 15:05 < uriel> nickjohnson: implementing the go runtime, as tor7 pointed out (unless you want the runtime to do lots of copying behind the scenes) 15:05 < nickjohnson> nbaum: I think you have to complain to the unicode committee about that one, alas 15:06 < uriel> the unicode committee is completely deranged, but then, so are most committees 15:06 < nickjohnson> uriel: I really don't see why that would be a problem. Just write a utf-8 encoder/decoder in Go that reads characters and converts them to byte sequences 15:06 < nbaum> nickjohnson: I'd solve it with a higher level abstraction above "runes". Or just not use indexing. 15:06 < tor7> Java also fell into the trap of char being 16-bit... that worked well when unicode extended past the BMP. 15:06 < tor7> but that's not really relevant to the discussion 15:06 < uriel> tor7: java and windows *YUCK* 15:06 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@71.58.123.111] has joined #go-nuts 15:06 < nickjohnson> nbaum: I'd be happier without indexing than with byte indexing - but I'd be happier again with character indexing. 15:07 < tor7> surrogate pairs wooo! 15:07 < uriel> tor7: ugh! 15:07 < tor7> surrogate pairs in utf-8, even more ugh... 15:07 < uriel> tor7: also know as "the worst strings of all possible worlds" 15:08 < uriel> surrogate pairs in utf-8? WTF? did somebody overdose on lsd? 15:08 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 < nickjohnson> Er, how do you find the number of characters in a string, anyway? 15:08 < nbaum> I would expect character indexing for a string. I am surprised by byte indexing of something that isn't a []byte. 15:08 < uriel> nickjohnson: you iterate with a counter, or use a function 15:08 < nickjohnson> uriel: So there's no standard library function for string length in characters? 15:09 < uriel> nbaum: life is full of surprises! 15:09 < uriel> nickjohnson: I'm absolutely certain there is one, but I can't remember it on an empty stomach 15:09 < nbaum> uriel: Hardly itself a sufficient justification. ;-) 15:09 < nickjohnson> It's not in the 'strings' module, at least 15:09 < tor7> nbaum did bring up another point against indexing by characters. combining characters are multiple code points but should be treated as a unit. similar to utf-8 15:09 < nbaum> unicode package, I would expect? 15:10 < nickjohnson> nope 15:10 < nbaum> tor7: Do if know if there's an official Unicode term for such a unit? 15:10 < tor7> yes, but I've forgotten :( 15:10 < nickjohnson> tor7: But that's not a point 'against' indexing by characters unless the alternative handles it any better, which to my knowledge it doesn't. 15:11 < nbaum> utf8.RuneCountInString 15:11 < uriel> nickjohnson: anyway, bring it up to ken and rob, they have forgotten more about strings and utf-8 than I will ever dream of knowing 15:11 -!- Kniht [n=kniht@68.58.17.177] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:11 < uriel> ;P 15:11 < tor7> working with utf-8 you're doing things in a similar way, going the extra mile won't be such a big break in the way you're thinking 15:11 * uriel now really goes hunt for food, flamewards on an empty stomach are not healthy :) 15:12 -!- triplez [n=triplez@124.155.195.7] has joined #go-nuts 15:15 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:17 -!- tokuhiro_______0 [i=tokuhiro@122.17.127.218] has joined #go-nuts 15:18 -!- scandal [n=nobody@unaffiliated/scandal] has quit ["Leaving."] 15:19 -!- brrant [n=John@168-103-78-133.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:21 -!- brrant [n=John@168.103.78.133] has joined #go-nuts 15:21 -!- taybin [n=taybin@24.42.93.107] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:21 -!- tokuhiro_______1 [i=tokuhiro@114.145.94.224] has joined #go-nuts 15:21 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@ti0032a380-dhcp0316.bb.online.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:23 -!- wilsonc [n=fabian@ip-92-50-76-126.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:23 < p4p4_> (hmm, might as well try again..) 15:23 < p4p4_> i'm playing around with some library bindings(sdl,cairo), and i always get the same cgo error: 'dwarf.Type TTF_Font reports unknown size'. (TTF_Font is : 'typedef struct _TTF_FONT TTF_Font;') 15:24 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@ti0032a380-dhcp0316.bb.online.no] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 < wilsonc> hi, just curious: is there really *no* subclassing in go ? 15:26 < nickjohnson> wilsonc: Go provides alternative mechanisms - interfaces and anonymous members 15:27 < wilsonc> nickjohnson: are they complicated ? what are the advantages compared to normal subclassing ? 15:27 -!- raichoo [n=raichoo@i577BB995.versanet.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:29 -!- malkomalko [n=malkomal@96.232.72.138] has joined #go-nuts 15:29 < nickjohnson> wilsonc: Reading the language design FAQ is probably the best answer to that. And no, they're not complicated. 15:29 -!- tokuhiro_______0 [i=tokuhiro@122.17.127.218] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:30 < wilsonc> nickjohnson: ok, the answer seems to be "speed" ;) 15:32 < tor7> wilsonc: they give you more flexibility than rigid inheritance architectures, without the madness of multiple inheritance. the code also reads more transparently with less implicit behind the scenes stuff going on. 15:32 < jordyd> wilsonc: http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html#inheritance 15:32 < jordyd> If you were not already looking there. 15:33 -!- andrewh [n=andrewh@89.193.212.36] has joined #go-nuts 15:33 -!- rajeshsr [n=rajeshsr@59.92.79.210] has joined #go-nuts 15:33 < rajeshsr> hi 15:34 < rajeshsr> it has been more than a week, since i was here! Any major change I missed? 15:34 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@88.84.156.71] has left #go-nuts [] 15:35 -!- tokuhiro________ [i=tokuhiro@p4227-ipbf1808marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:35 < nickjohnson> A nuclear reactor control system was written in Go. A test reactor had a criticality excursion due to an incorrectly buffered channel. Go now banned for use in critical systems. 15:35 < nickjohnson> Other than that, not much. 15:36 <+danderson> nah, not banned 15:36 < uriel> p4p4_: I think there is an issue aobut that in the issue tracker 15:36 <+danderson> the reactors are just required to carry a "beta" sticker 15:36 < nickjohnson> danderson: heh 15:36 < uriel> p4p4_: otherwise it might be a cgo issue that has been fixed recently, make sure you have the hg tip 15:36 * sladegen incants: it's the end of the world as it was going 15:36 < rajeshsr> haha! :) 15:36 < wilsonc> ok, makes sense - i am very interested in this project - i did a lot in php and python, but i missed the speed of compiler languages. everyone of my friends are enthusiastic about c#, but unfortunatly this is no (good) option for me as a linux user 15:37 < p4p4_> i'll look for it ! ( i just think, it compiled for the library authors, why not for me ? ) 15:37 < uriel> wilsonc: subclassing is a *really* stupid and evil way of sharing code 15:37 < uriel> p4p4_: oh, then it means you need to update 15:37 < KragenSitaker> uriel: heh, it has its places 15:38 < uriel> p4p4_: quite a few fixes have gone into cgo in the last few days 15:38 < uriel> KragenSitaker: no 15:38 < tor7> no. not really. (agrees with uriel, again, it seems) 15:38 < wilsonc> uriel: why ? 15:39 < p4p4_> funny world, where a 1 week old compiler isn't good any more .. :) 15:39 < p4p4_> but i'll do. 15:39 < uriel> wilsonc: many reasons, among them it confounds code sharing and the type system, it arbitrarily forzes a mix of data and behavior, etc.. 15:40 < KragenSitaker> subclassing comes from smalltalk, which doesn't have a type system 15:40 < uriel> wilsonc: even the most fervent object oriented zealots have been pointing out for years now that composition is much better than inheritance 15:40 < KragenSitaker> (unless it's from Simula? I don't know Simula well enough to be sure) 15:40 < KragenSitaker> uriel: they have been pointing out that composition is often much better than inheritance 15:41 < rajeshsr> I remember seeing an example about writing wrappers for C lib. Unable to see the link again. 15:41 < uriel> KragenSitaker: well, sub-classing might have been a good idea in smalltalk, but you know what the guy that created smalltalk said? "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind. -- Alan Kay 15:41 < rajeshsr> anyone could help me out? 15:42 < uriel> rajeshsr: http://go-lang.cat-v.org/library-bindings <-- quite a few examples 15:42 < rajeshsr> uriel, ha, ok! so, u own that site? cool! 15:43 < uriel> I try to keep it up to date, but I'm having trouble keeping up 15:44 < uriel> rajeshsr: there is one package in the distribution that uses cgo as an example, but I can't find it now 15:45 < wilsonc> i never had problems sharing objective code with subclassing, but ok - i will get used to the go standards :) 15:45 < rajeshsr> yeah, a new language where changes are published at the speed of light it is not humanly possible to keep that upto date! Your efforts to make that is appreciable! 15:46 -!- Odemia [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has joined #go-nuts 15:46 < uriel> rajeshsr: thanks, glad somebody finds it useful 15:47 < rajeshsr> BTW, did anyone notice that Google is moving into a spree of releasing products?! Go, wave, chrome OS, all quite landmark!! 15:47 < rajeshsr> am too thrilled to look it all up and keep track of it! 15:48 < rajeshsr> uriel, welcome! A central repo of information that is updated much is something I wanted to have. Am also looking to have some lib sharing site, like cpane in perl for Go. That can make it mature faster.. 15:48 * uriel wonders what is a lanmark of yet another linux distribution, and some bizarre web app that makes any computer crawl on its knees and which nobody has found any use for so far 15:48 < tor7> chrome os doesn't thrill me one bit, but the chrome browser is the best thing to happen to the web in a long long time 15:49 < uriel> (other than to write articles about how hyped it is) 15:49 < uriel> tor7: agreed 15:49 < rajeshsr> uriel, Wave is really good! Am not sure abt chrome OS, of corz! 15:49 < uriel> this is offtopic here anyway 15:49 < rajeshsr> ok :) 15:49 < rajeshsr> yeah, let us not digress and keep it on topic 15:49 < rajeshsr> :) 15:50 < uriel> (but I still have to find anyone that uses wave for anything other than just messing around and waiting for their browser to come back to life after every click) 15:50 -!- minwi [n=minwi@195.34.70.90] has left #go-nuts ["Abandonando"] 15:50 < tor7> it's not just "yet another linux dist" ... it's a crippled beast that you can't modify yourself because it needs its own firmware that it checks. it's something I'd expect of a telco, not google. </rant> 15:50 < uriel> tor7: heh 15:51 -!- tokuhiro_______2 [i=tokuhiro@p4222-ipbf2505marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 15:51 * uriel always wondered how Google managed to handle the culture clash between the Web 2.0 hipsters and the hardcore research/systems people... 15:51 < rajeshsr> uriel, ha, well. Wave needs a lot of optimization to make it work better and faster! But the idea is awesome. IMHO, It has a lot of prospects of becoming the future of communication. 15:51 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has joined #go-nuts 15:52 * uriel rolls eyes 15:53 < tor7> future of communication? I'll give up my ICQ over my cold dead body... 15:53 < Zaba> Wave is harder to understand than the superstring theory 15:53 < nbaum> tor7: You mean XMPP, of course! 15:53 < rajeshsr> Zaba, yeah! :) Too cryptic for a normal user! 15:54 < uriel> Zaba: hahaha... that goes into my quotes file 15:54 < rajeshsr> still, it can get better! I still think they should have delayed releasing that to public so soon! 15:54 < tor7> now don't get me started on the mere thought of implementing an IM protocol in ...drumroll... XML 15:54 < nbaum> Google specialise in releasing too soon. :-) 15:54 < rajeshsr> nbaum, and be beta for a loooooooooooong time! :) 15:54 < uriel> I think they should have killed the whole thing before it got beyond a silly idea somebody had, but I'm optimistic that it will fail miserably 15:55 < Zaba> xmpp is awfully horrid and yes, I know, that's an understatement, but honestly, I have better things to do than spend time making up words describing something so bad. 15:55 < uriel> Zaba: indeed :)) 15:55 < uriel> not enough negative words have been invented in the history of the english language to describe XMPP 15:55 < tor7> it's such a shame that AOL seem hellbent on destroying ICQ. leaving us with no choice but embrace XMPP 15:56 < rajeshsr> uriel, so what is better then?! :) 15:56 < uriel> tor7: irc still works fine last I checked... 15:56 < uriel> rajeshsr: better than what? and for what? 15:56 < rajeshsr> XMPP 15:56 < uriel> irc, for one 15:56 < Zaba> it depends on what purpose you use xmpp for 15:56 < tor7> I'm here, but many people don't have the luxury of IRC access at work :) 15:56 < uriel> after over ten years of creating thousands of specs and extensions, xmpp still can't handle multi-user chat as well as irc does! 15:57 < nbaum> They probably wouldn't have the luxury of XMPP access? 15:57 < rajeshsr> uriel, XMPP does, if am not wrong. Google group chat uses some other mechanism? Pardon my ignorance.. 15:57 < uriel> tor7: I know, wave^2 should be irc running on port 80 ;P 15:57 < nickjohnson> uriel: And HTTP isn't as good as IMAP at mailbox access!?!? 15:58 < uriel> rajeshsr: xmpp has supposedly been able to do group chat for many years, there are about a dozen different 'standards' or 'specs' or 'extension', or whatever they call them about it 15:58 -!- tokuhiro_______1 [i=tokuhiro@114.145.94.224] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 15:58 < uriel> rajeshsr: all implementations of it are broken in different ways 15:58 < Zaba> well, irc could be vastly improved, too, except now it's too late, with all those different ircds around 15:58 < tor7> uriel: that'll be the day 15:58 -!- inittab- [n=dlbeer@ip-118-90-62-32.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #go-nuts 15:58 < uriel> nickjohnson: both http and imap are awful, but I guess http is probalby slightly saner 15:58 -!- aa [n=aa@r200-40-114-26.ae-static.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #go-nuts 15:59 < nbaum> HTTP and IMAP aren't comparable. 15:59 < nickjohnson> uriel: My point is that XMPP and IRC aren't the same protocol, or even solving the same thing. Saying one is worse than the other because it can't do some particular thing is meaningless. 15:59 < nbaum> You'd need to be comparing a web-server over HTTP with IMAP. 15:59 < nbaum> Erm. Web-service. 15:59 < nickjohnson> nbaum: That's my point. 15:59 < rajeshsr> nbaum, nickjohnson says the same point between IRC and XMPP 15:59 < KragenSitaker> uriel: yes, I repeat that Kay quote often. But subclassing isn't an invention of C++. (Hmm, the fact that it's present in C++ makes me think that maybe it was present in Simula too) 15:59 < uriel> nbaum: true, ok, I guess imap is more broken (specially more implementations are incompatible, *cough* gmail *cough*) 16:00 < uriel> nickjohnson: xmpp certainly doesn't solve any problems, but it sure creates many (ok, it migh solve the same problem as c++: unemployment among masochistic programmers) 16:00 < nbaum> XMPP solves the problem of having a zero-conf federated chat network. 16:00 < nickjohnson> uriel: XMPP is a presence and chat protocol. It's also practically the only way to do that that isn't proprietary. 16:00 < nickjohnson> nbaum: Exactly. 16:00 < uriel> KragenSitaker: again, subclassing might make sense in smalltalk, but when people ask for it, smalltalk is rarely what they have in mind 16:01 < uriel> nickjohnson: irc provides chat and presence, and an infinitely simpler, more reliable, more sane, and more efficient way 16:01 -!- odemia_ [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:01 < Zaba> the problem is that people make things, then apply them as solutions to all problems, create massive hype around it, despite the fact it doesn't work. And in some rare cases, doesn't work well. Exhibit #1: XML. 16:01 < nickjohnson> uriel: IRC doesn't provide presence. You can sort of hack it on top of it, if you try. 16:01 < KragenSitaker> building something less reliable, less simple, or less sane than IRC is a tough job! 16:01 < tor7> nickjohnson: XMPP solves a real problem. It just does it in the most complicated way possible. 16:01 < Zaba> nickjohnson, there's that 'away' command 16:02 < nickjohnson> IRC also doesn't provide authentication, so the uriel I talk to today may not be the uriel I talk to tomorrow. 16:02 < uriel> and really, any three years old could design something better than xmpp, if only because only somebody that thinks he is super smart can have delusions as insane as xmpp 16:02 < Zaba> nickjohnson, which needn't be a part of a protocol, because services can enforce it very well 16:02 < nickjohnson> tor7: I don't much like the design of XMPP either, but I'm pragmatic: It's here, and it does the job. 16:02 < uriel> nickjohnson: irc channels do provide presence 16:02 < nbaum> uriel: But XMPP actually exists. 16:02 < Zaba> IRC doesn't exist! News to me. 16:03 < nickjohnson> uriel: So your point is that you can hack IM-like features onto IRC, therefore it's better than an IM protocol? 16:03 < uriel> it is here, and it is a nightmare that causes tons of pain and missery, my pragmatic take is: throw it into /dev/null where it always belonged 16:03 < KragenSitaker> Zaba: no, uriel is talking about a hypothetical protocol designed by a three-year-old 16:03 < tor7> nickjohnson: yup, but I gave up my plans on writing my own IM client for XMPP before I could even smell the protocol :( 16:03 < uriel> nickjohnson: better than abomination as xmpp? yes 16:03 < nickjohnson> uriel: Then why isn't there a single IM network based on IRC? 16:03 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@82.113.106.24] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:03 < uriel> nickjohnson: irc *is* an im network! 16:03 < nbaum> It doesn't cause _me_ any pain and misery. 16:03 < nickjohnson> uriel: No, IRC is a _chat_ protocol. 16:04 < Zaba> any irc network is, to some extent, an IM network, being able to transfer messages 'instantly' and all that. 16:04 < uriel> nbaum: that must be because you don't use and you have not had to admin any xmpp server (or worse, have to write any software that deals with xmpp) 16:04 * nbaum can't say he uses IRC for chatting to individuals. 16:04 < KragenSitaker> IRC and XMPP cause me about equal quantities of pain, because I use them both every day 16:04 < nickjohnson> Without per-person presence notifications, or authentication, or reliable names 16:04 < uriel> nickjohnson: you are spliting hairs 16:04 < KragenSitaker> those aren't hairs 16:04 < Zaba> nickjohnson, irc can have reliable names 16:04 < KragenSitaker> those are the core features of an IM system 16:04 < melba> the osi model should incorporate irc 16:04 < uriel> Zaba: and authentication 16:04 < Zaba> the beauty is that they aren't built into the protocol, but still live pretty well 16:04 < KragenSitaker> (plus sending messages) 16:04 < nickjohnson> uriel: I'm not, because those are essential features of an IM network - far more than the actual chatting, arguably - and the only way to use them in IRC is to hack on lots of convention and ad-hoc solutions like nameservers 16:05 < nbaum> uriel: I administer two, and have written software which runs on both servers and in a web browser to communicate on the networks. 16:05 < tor7> who needs presence notification if all your friends are other geeks who'ro also always on? ;) 16:05 < nickjohnson> Zaba: That's not a 'beauty' when you're trying to build a federated network that behaves consistently. 16:05 < nbaum> Obviously I don't use the horrible wire protocol directly, but I'm not a mentalist. 16:05 < Zaba> nickjohnson, that's a beauty when your ircd is already enough of a hell to maintain 16:05 < uriel> nickjohnson: and features that are quite broken in xmpp, just like many things are broken in irc, but irc is still infinitely simpler, more efficient and more reliable, and more universally implemented 16:06 < uriel> tor7: haha 16:06 < nickjohnson> uriel: Again, note the total lack of IRC-based IM clients 16:06 < uriel> nickjohnson: irc clients *are* im clients! 16:06 < nbaum> Actually, I have several IM clients with IRC support. 16:06 < KragenSitaker> nickjohnson: pidgin supports IRC. it just doesn't work very well 16:06 < tor7> Miranda for windows is a decent IM and IRC client 16:06 < rajeshsr> uriel, well, do you IM your friends with IRC?! 16:06 < uriel> I don't use 'IM', because I use irc, they serve compltely equivalent functions 16:06 < nickjohnson> And the fact that every single major IRC network, practically speaking, implements things like authentication differently 16:06 < nickjohnson> uriel: No, they're _chat_ clients. 16:06 < nbaum> My XMPP server also supports IRC. :-) 16:06 < uriel> rajeshsr: yes, thank god for bitlbee! 16:06 < KragenSitaker> I do IM my friends with IRC 16:06 < KragenSitaker> but more often I use it for group chat 16:07 < nickjohnson> Suppose I want to be notified when one of my friends comes online or offline. Either I have to persuade them all to join the same channel, or I have to poll. 16:07 < melba> i have the telephone nums of my friends 16:07 -!- inittab [n=dlbeer@118.90.0.154] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:07 < KragenSitaker> melba: do you send them SMSes? 16:07 < nickjohnson> Further, you can't federate IRC unless all the servers trust one another, because IRC wasn't designed for disjoint trust or authentication domains 16:07 < melba> no, i call them 16:07 < tor7> I IM my friends with ICQ and increasingly XMPP; group and work chat on IRC. 16:07 < uriel> melba: hehehe 16:07 < wm_eddie> I've stopped using IM about a week ago... but still use irc 16:07 < KragenSitaker> melba: you only talk to them when you're willing to interrupt whatever they're doing? 16:07 < melba> yes, i'm like that 16:07 < uriel> wm_eddie: I stopped using 'IM' a couple of years ago 16:08 < nickjohnson> KragenSitaker: That's more or less my point - you can implement it, but only poorly. Just like you could do, say, IMAP over HTTP. 16:08 < uriel> wm_eddie: been really happy ever since 16:08 < Zaba> well, all my friends use irc 16:08 < ni|> happy thanksgiving :) 16:08 < Whtiger> How would I combine 2 byte arrays? 16:08 < melba> plus they can always refuse to answer 16:08 < nbaum> KragenSitaker: Or when they've reached a natural break, presumably. 16:08 < nickjohnson> Whtiger: Combine in what manner? 16:08 < uriel> ni|! 16:08 < nbaum> What's this, a Go question? 16:08 < uriel> nbaum: hahaha 16:08 < rajeshsr> nbaum, :) 16:08 < Whtiger> nickjohnson: concatinate? 16:08 < tor7> Whtiger: bytes.Copy() 16:09 < uriel> A Go question? go fuck yourself! 16:09 < Zaba> and I most often don't care whether the someone I'm talking to is around, they have awaylogs and such 16:09 < uriel> tor7: now there is a copy() built in function 16:09 < rajeshsr> I would love to have a copy of this discussion, particularly what nbaum finally said! :) 16:09 < tor7> really? 16:09 < Zaba> and I have enough mental scrollback to interpret an out-of-context reply several days later... 16:09 < KragenSitaker> nbaum: you can't call someone when they've reached a natural break unless you have some other means of communication 16:09 < uriel> and I think bytes.Copy() is deprecated 16:09 < ni|> uriel: yes? 16:09 < uriel> tor7: yes, since, a few days ago 16:09 < nickjohnson> Whtiger: Allocate a new array and use bytes.Copy to copy the two arrays into it 16:09 < tor7> neat. I better update. 16:09 < ni|> uriel: are you terrorizing the go programmers now too!? 16:09 < nickjohnson> or rather, a new slice 16:09 < nbaum> KragenSitaker: Well, as melba says, they can choose not to answer. :-) 16:09 < rajeshsr> uriel, oh they started deprecating!! :) 16:10 < uriel> ni|: can't help it :( 16:10 < ni|> happy thanksgiving to you though uriel 16:10 < KragenSitaker> nbaum: that's true. but that works a lot better with SMS or IM than with the phone 16:10 < tor7> last time I did hg up got a broken state that didn't compile :( 16:10 < ni|> uriel: i had a feeling you couldn't 16:10 < nbaum> Though I consider phones to be really rude. 16:10 < ni|> :) 16:10 < uriel> ni|: I don't know what that is, but happy to you too ;P 16:10 < KragenSitaker> uriel: a US holiday for contemplating the things one has to be thankful for 16:10 < KragenSitaker> uriel: based on a harvest festival from the 1600s 16:11 * exch removed PCRE depdency from his lastfm package 16:11 < rajeshsr> KragenSitaker, Thankful to whom? 16:11 < KragenSitaker> rajeshsr: thankfulness doesn't necessarily involve an object 16:11 < nbaum> Providence. 16:11 < uriel> exch: yay! 16:11 < ni|> exch: you have a lastfm package in go? 16:11 < exch> :) 16:11 < uriel> exch: thanks and congratulations! ;) 16:11 < exch> ya 16:11 < ni|> exch: is the source public? 16:11 < ni|> would be curious to see 16:11 < exch> http://github.com/jteeuwen/go-pkg-lastfm 16:12 < rajeshsr> KragenSitaker, ok! 16:12 < uriel> KragenSitaker: ok, /me is thankful for Go :)) 16:12 -!- tokuhiro_______2 [i=tokuhiro@p4222-ipbf2505marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:12 < KragenSitaker> uriel: heh, me too :) 16:12 < KragenSitaker> uriel: where do you live? 16:12 < uriel> KragenSitaker: currently in Sweden 16:12 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:12 < tor7> is there a golang.org that serves the latest development? 16:13 < tor7> (for when I'm lazy and can't be bothered to run my own godoc) 16:13 < Whtiger> I don't have a bytes.Copy() 16:13 < chickamade> nickjohnson: off-topic, but did you see my Fractran code-golf entry? (84 fractions) 16:13 < uriel> tor7: not sure, maybe I should set that up somewhere.. 16:13 < nickjohnson> chickamade: Seriously? 16:14 < chickamade> yep! 16:14 < uriel> tor7: note that the docs are taken from the source, so... 16:14 < nickjohnson> chickamade: holy crap 16:14 < tor7> I could probably set one up on ghostscript.com, but I'm afraid the server doesn't really hold for much more pressure :( 16:15 < rajeshsr> uriel, may be he is too lazy to type "godoc"! :P 16:15 < nickjohnson> chickamade: I wish you'd submitted that before I awarded the bounty to the other fractran answer 16:15 < uriel> tor7: well, i was more thinging along the lines of: use a text editor and grep ;) 16:15 < chickamade> nickjohnson: yeah that was a bit late 16:15 < chickamade> nickjohnson: only 1 day though :( 16:15 < uriel> rajeshsr: hehe 16:15 < tor7> uriel: but...but.... that's so much work! :P 16:16 < tor7> and I'm a sucker for nice text layouts, like the godoc html 16:16 < uriel> tor7: complain to russ and co. to have a cron job to update the docs daily (but maybe they want to keep the docs in sync with the latest 'release'?) 16:16 < uriel> tor7: why not run it on your own local box? 16:16 < nickjohnson> chickamade: weird encoding, though. :) 16:17 < tor7> uriel: I am, but I'm not sure everyone who wants to read about go is ready to do that. 16:17 < nickjohnson> I would've thought interpreting a 'string' of decimal-coded-base11 would be substantially harder 16:17 < tor7> just to get up to date docs 16:17 < chickamade> nickjohnson: it makes so much sense though, and it's simple & easy to debug, (it's called prefix-free encoding I think) 16:17 < nickjohnson> That's prefix-free? How so? 16:18 < chickamade> nickjohnson: not at all, you just divide by 11 until you got remainder 10 which is the boundary 16:18 < chickamade> nickjohnson: because no base 10 number has the prefix "a" 16:18 -!- smooge [n=smooge@int.smoogespace.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:19 < Whtiger> yay bytes.Add 16:19 < nickjohnson> I think it's just delimited. 'prefix free' means no symbol is the prefix of another symbol 16:19 -!- andrewh [n=andrewh@89.193.212.36] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:20 -!- eno [n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #go-nuts 16:20 < tor7> Whtiger: if you want more efficient slice manipulations, alloc more data than you need with make([]byte, 0, 1000) and then you can use the len() and cap() builtins and extend the slice when you're adding more data 16:21 < nickjohnson> chickamade: Just trying it with my interpreter now. Got to convert your syntax first :P 16:22 -!- bennabi [n=bennabi@41.104.102.111] has joined #go-nuts 16:22 < Whtiger> tor7: yeah, I'm doing that. 16:22 < chickamade> nickjohnson: Wikipedia says unary encoding is prefix-free, and my encoding uses base 11 instead of base 2 16:22 < uriel> tor7: I think people are expected to use the latest 'release', although this week might have been a bit weird because the tip has many fixes, and there wont be a release until next week due to to holydays 16:22 < nickjohnson> chickamade: hm 16:22 < chickamade> nickjohnson: there are 11 symbols in base 11 16:24 -!- Makavel [n=eddw@hoasb-ff08dd00-36.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Success] 16:24 -!- eno__ [n=eno@70.137.166.236] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 16:24 < nickjohnson> chickamade: I realise this :) 16:25 -!- kaigan|work [n=kaigan@85.226.144.130] has quit [] 16:27 -!- drry [n=drry@unaffiliated/drry] has joined #go-nuts 16:27 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 16:27 < chickamade> nickjohnson: did the other fractran version finish computation? 16:28 < nickjohnson> chickamade: Nope. 16:28 < nickjohnson> Sent you a PM about yours 16:28 < nickjohnson> It doesn't seem to run as expected on my interpreter 16:29 < chickamade> nickjohnson: PM at S0? 16:30 < nickjohnson> No, a /msg here :) 16:30 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:32 -!- mico [n=mico@93-32-157-116.ip34.fastwebnet.it] has joined #go-nuts 16:33 < mico> how many lines of go exist today? 16:33 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@200.160.16.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:34 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@200.160.16.18] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- armence [n=armence@67.188.229.128] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 -!- dat99rmo [n=dat99rmo@212.85.89.41] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:35 -!- ponce [n=ponce@paradisia.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 -!- mico [n=mico@93-32-157-116.ip34.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38 -!- trickie [n=trickie@94.100.112.225] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:39 < exch> oh right 16:40 -!- Sylvain_ [i=d4528311@gateway/web/freenode/x-cmpoecbfytyonpsq] has quit ["Page closed"] 16:40 < exch> mt 16:40 -!- p4p4 [n=P4p4@24.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:42 -!- Zaba_ [n=zaba@195.131.148.102] has joined #go-nuts 16:44 -!- maxiepax [n=max@c-eb7be155.360-1-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 16:45 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@24.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:47 -!- ejb [n=ejb@unaffiliated/ejb] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:47 -!- Zaba [n=zaba@about/goats/billygoat/zaba] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:47 -!- e1f [n=user@141.117.1.155] has joined #go-nuts 16:50 -!- lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #go-nuts 16:51 -!- wilsonc [n=fabian@ip-92-50-76-126.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 16:51 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 16:51 -!- Ibw [n=isaac@cpe-67-241-42-134.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:52 -!- p4p4 [n=P4p4@24.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:53 < Whtiger> Hm, how do I convert a byte array to a string. 16:54 -!- ukl [n=ukl@f053123194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:54 -!- armence [n=armence@67.188.229.128] has quit [Connection timed out] 16:55 < exch> s := string(arr); 16:56 < Ibw> > str := "hello"; arr := strings.Bytes(str); fmt.Printf("%T: %v", arr, arr); str2 := string(arr); fmt.Printf("%T: %v", str2, str2); 16:56 < rndbot> []uint8: [104 101 108 108 111]string: hello 16:57 < Ibw> Whtiger: Be careful with that though. By using UTF8, Go does not gurantee that one character = one byte. 16:57 < Ibw> ie 16:57 -!- tokuhiro_______2 [n=tokuhiro@s230.GtokyoFL21.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 16:58 < Ibw> > str := "hello漢字"; arr := strings.Bytes(str); fmt.Printf("%T: %v", arr, arr); str2 := string(arr); fmt.Printf("%T: %v", str2, str2); 16:58 < rndbot> []uint8: [104 101 108 108 111 230 188 162 229 173 151]string: hello漢字 16:58 < Ibw> > str := "字"; arr := strings.Bytes(str); fmt.Printf("%T: %v", arr, arr); str2 := string(arr); fmt.Printf("%T: %v", str2, str2); 16:58 < rndbot> []uint8: [229 173 151]string: 字 16:58 < ukl> I'm a bit troubled with pointer/slice things... Could someone please have a look at the (working) code http://pastebin.com/d708908c7 and tell me if I'm doing something completely stupid regarding the types and pointers? (like, wasting memory by copying something every time, things like that) 16:58 < Ibw> see? three bytes, but only one character 16:59 < Ibw> ukl: German? 16:59 < Ibw> ukl: Which function has the questionably slices? 17:00 < ukl> Ibw: yes, german, there're no questionable slices, it's just the first time I messed with []int types and make and new... 17:00 < ukl> Ibw: If someone just told me if this looks sane... 17:00 < Ibw> right. Where exactly are you not sure if you're using them correctly? 17:01 < Ibw> (PS http://gopaste.org 17:01 < ukl> Ibw: the example I looked at (the "type File ..." example in efficient Go or the tutorial) used "func (file *File) Open (...) " where I use "func (r QueryRangeObject) query (..)" 17:02 < ukl> Ibw: But from what I understood, []int is kind of like a pointer, therefore I dismissed the extra * 17:02 < ukl> Ibw: gopaste seems to be down, unfortunately 17:02 < ukl> (internal server error, that is) 17:02 < Ibw> ukl: []int *is* sort of like a pointer (depending on what your doing). So usually, an extra * would be redundant 17:03 < ukl> Ibw: ok, so I got that, thanks 17:03 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:03 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:03 < exch> a slice is a reference to an underlying data structure, so no need really to make it a pointer 17:03 < Ibw> ukl: I'm still trying to figure out your code 17:04 < ukl> Ibw: it's just counting the occurances of the numbers in "zahlen" and then adds them up so anzahlen[i] contains the count of numbers in zahlen that are <= i 17:04 < Ibw> ya... 17:04 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@host81-154-246-241.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:05 < Ibw> well, as long as you understand slices.. 17:05 < ukl> Ibw: in the end making the querys for "how many numbers in [10,14] are in zahlen" as cheap as anzahlen[13]-anzahlen[9] 17:06 < Ibw> ah, and zahlen is an array of numbers 17:06 < Ibw> that makes sense 17:06 < Ibw> now let me check out what you did.... 17:07 < ukl> well, it pretty much seems to work (havent figured out proper unit tests yet tho)... just wasn't sure about the pointer/[]int issue, so you helped me a lot already 17:07 -!- Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 17:07 < ukl> so, thank you :) 17:07 < Ibw> Oh, ok then 17:07 < Ibw> cool 17:07 < Ibw> glad I could help 17:08 -!- ahiwasabi [n=mike@c-75-72-114-208.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:08 -!- rbohn [i=rsbohn@xmission.xmission.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- trickie [n=trickie@86.93.227.181] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- scandal [n=nobody@unaffiliated/scandal] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- trickie [n=trickie@86.93.227.181] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 17:11 -!- Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #go-nuts 17:12 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #go-nuts 17:12 -!- scandal [n=nobody@unaffiliated/scandal] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@212-198-164-142.rev.numericable.fr] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:13 -!- armence [n=armence@c-67-188-229-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 -!- armence [n=armence@c-67-188-229-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [SendQ exceeded] 17:14 -!- ahiwasabi [n=mike@c-75-72-114-208.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts [] 17:14 < mikedee_> are the built in functions documented anywhere? 17:14 < mikedee_> particularly the ones that deal with type casting 17:15 < mikedee_> i want to convert a string to a int64 17:17 < exch> s := strconv.Atoi64(123455678899645646); 17:17 < Ibw> ergh, was just about to post taht 17:17 < exch> err 17:17 < mikedee_> thanks :) 17:17 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@rrcs-97-77-53-108.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:17 < exch> the other way around :) 17:17 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@rrcs-97-77-53-108.sw.biz.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 17:17 < exch> num := strconv.Atoi64("31313131313"); 17:18 < Ibw> num, error := strconv.Atoi64(...) 17:18 < exch> ah yes. the err 17:19 < mikedee_> is it just me or does type casting seem to be the achilles heel of go? 17:19 -!- rbohn [i=rsbohn@xmission.xmission.com] has quit ["changing platforms"] 17:19 < exch> it can be a bit funky 17:19 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #go-nuts 17:19 -!- einsidan [n=einsidan@194-144-68-248.du.xdsl.is] has quit ["Leaving..."] 17:19 < uriel> mikedee_: uhu? 17:20 < mikedee_> sometimes theres a built in function, sometimes you can use a type as a cast, v.(*D) typecasts whereas v.(D) checks if the interface is implemented 17:20 -!- triplez_ [n=triplez@116.197.205.204] has joined #go-nuts 17:20 < mikedee_> int -> int64 = int64(i) 17:21 < mikedee_> interface -> D = v.(*D) 17:21 < uriel> they are different things... I don't see the issue 17:21 < Ibw> I dunno. Casting makes sense where it makes sense (i.e. same data types) and doesn't where it doesn't. If it doesn't, use a function in the standard packages 17:21 < mikedee_> go is supposed to reduce the complexity and time needed to code 17:21 < mikedee_> I must spend 60% of my debugging time working out conversions 17:22 < uriel> mikedee_: the v.(x) thing is used for interfaces the int(x) thin for casts, and when converting to something else you use a function/method, seems quite clear to me 17:22 < uriel> mikedee_: uhu? why do you spend 60% of your debuging time working out conversion?!?!? 17:22 < Ibw> But converting an int to a string with string(myInt), how is go supposed to know what you mean? Make a single character string with the unicode character that corresponds with the int, or make a string with that int as a string ("12") 17:23 < uriel> precisely because all conversions are explicit there are many less hard to track down bugs 17:23 < mikedee_> v.(*D) is very different to v.(D) 17:23 -!- gigatropolis [n=chatzill@c-24-6-103-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:23 < mikedee_> then there are the built in string, int etc 17:23 < Ibw> I think you're making it harder than you need to, mikedee_ 17:23 < mikedee_> then sometimes a type can be used as a function to ensure an interface 17:24 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit ["Arr"] 17:24 < Ibw> Are you coming from a high level language that actually lets you make casts like that? C, C++, Java... they most certainly don't 17:24 < mikedee_> I am comparing to php where you can cast anything to anything 17:24 < Ibw> ah 17:24 < Ibw> php 17:24 -!- hooopy [i=hoopy@173-30-98-140.client.mchsi.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:24 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:24 < mikedee_> even javascript is more consistent 17:24 < Ibw> I don't think you should hold on to things that php lets you do 17:24 < Ibw> "consistent 17:24 < mikedee_> like garbage collection? 17:24 -!- chachan [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:25 < Ibw> Go does 17:25 < mikedee_> or speed of development 17:25 < Ibw> go is 17:25 < Ibw> those are two things that Go is fantastic at 17:25 < Ibw> well 17:25 < Ibw> garbage collection not so much, but it does have that 17:25 < uriel> the only php thing does fast is drive anyone into total insanity 17:25 < Ibw> agreed 17:25 < mikedee_> thats just languagism ;) 17:26 < Ibw> heh 17:26 < uriel> mikedee_: no, that is just php 17:26 < mikedee_> I like C too but I wouldn't write a website in it 17:26 < mikedee_> nor would I use Go to write a OpenGL game 17:26 < Ibw> mikedee_: Did you see my point earlier? By allowing all that casting that you wanted, Go would have to make uneducated assumptions, and that against the Go ideal: everything is explicit 17:26 < mikedee_> or PHP 17:27 < Ibw> nor would you use Go to write a website 17:27 < TenOfTen> why not an opengl game in go? 17:27 < TenOfTen> cause of the gc? 17:28 < mikedee_> I would imagine that the string() function would work with anything but I understand thats not the case, but int64() should be able to work it out? 17:28 < mikedee_> or the lack of bindings 17:29 -!- slashus2 [n=slashus2@74-137-26-8.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:29 < TenOfTen> like i was told earlier today, bindings will come 17:29 < Ibw> mikedee_: Didn't I already say why it makes sense that it *doesn't* work for everything? Go can't read your mind 17:29 < mikedee_> but the syntax could be more consistent 17:29 -!- triplez [n=triplez@124.155.195.7] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:29 < Ibw> and string() isn't a function. It's just the syntax for casting to a string, like int(), or uint64() 17:29 < mikedee_> thats all... 17:29 < mikedee_> exactly my point 17:30 < Ibw> these are the only built in functions: http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Built-in_functions 17:30 < Ibw> and casting only makes sense where it makes sense, not where you would like it to make sense 17:30 < mikedee_> but if I want to cast a interface{} to a *Obj then the cast moves to the other end, ie v.(*Obj) NOT *Obj(v) 17:30 < mikedee_> but if I want an instance not the pointer, Obj(v) is fine 17:31 -!- lenst [n=user@81.237.244.185] has joined #go-nuts 17:31 < mikedee_> arrays seem to work too 17:31 < mikedee_> []byte(v) will cast to a byte array 17:31 < mikedee_> but I dont think v.(Obj) will cast 17:31 < Ibw> why would you cast an interface to anything? 17:32 < Ibw> Is it possible that your frustration stems from missuse of the language? 17:32 < mikedee_> I thought you had to cast null pointers before using them? 17:32 < mikedee_> it is possible ;) 17:33 < mikedee_> Maybe a slight misselling and lack of documentation 17:33 < mikedee_> (I still think its great though) 17:36 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 17:37 -!- path[l] [n=path@122.182.0.38] has quit [] 17:37 -!- tibshoot [n=tibshoot@linagora-230-146.pr0.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:37 -!- billy [n=billy@v32671.1blu.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:38 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@ti0032a380-dhcp0316.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:39 -!- cmatei [n=cmatei@95.76.26.166] has joined #go-nuts 17:40 < gigatropolis> anyone on go team working on kerberos support? 17:42 -!- shambler [i=kingrat@mm-47-194-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #go-nuts 17:42 < Ibw> Probably not. Ask on the mailing list. There are very few if any Go devs here 17:42 -!- tcpip4000 [n=tcpip400@190.84.233.18] has joined #go-nuts 17:43 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has quit ["Leaving"] 17:43 -!- tibshoot [n=tibshoot@linagora-230-146.pr0.nerim.net] has quit ["Quitte"] 17:44 -!- andguent [n=andguent@qcx.be] has quit ["ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net"] 17:46 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:47 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@132.252.252.126] has joined #go-nuts 17:47 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@132.252.252.126] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 17:47 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:51 -!- Meowtimer__ [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:52 -!- Meowtimer__ [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53 -!- djanderson [n=dja@hltncable.pioneerbroadband.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 17:55 -!- Meowtimer [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 17:56 -!- maacl [n=mac@0x573526c8.virnxx17.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [] 17:57 -!- pshahmumbai [n=prashant@59.164.24.169] has joined #go-nuts 17:58 -!- dat99rmo [n=dat99rmo@212.85.89.41] has joined #go-nuts 17:58 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:01 -!- K6HX [n=markv@c-76-126-161-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:01 < Ibw> It's amazing how a channel with 375 nicks can be so quiet... 18:02 <+danderson> gigatropolis: not to my knowledge. Feel free to announce intent on the list if you're planning to 18:02 <+danderson> Ibw: if there is nothing to say... 18:03 < gigatropolis> what level of developer would it take to make a kerberos lib? 18:03 <+danderson> I can't comment, I don't know Kerberos well enough 18:03 <+danderson> if you're lucky, most of the crypto stuff is implemented already 18:03 <+danderson> and there is nice networking as well 18:05 < gigatropolis> guess it might be possible 18:05 < Ibw> gigatropolis: It's worth a try 18:06 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has joined #go-nuts 18:06 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.59.166] has joined #go-nuts 18:07 -!- shuaib [n=shuaib@unaffiliated/shuaib] has joined #go-nuts 18:08 -!- zhurai [n=zhurai@c-24-7-50-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["\o/ irc.tennoko.org \o/"] 18:15 -!- chickamade [n=chickama@123.16.71.132] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:15 -!- Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 18:15 -!- Meowtimer_ [n=meowtime@vpn-ce242025.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 18:15 < kimelto> morning! 18:15 -!- BMeph [n=black_me@65.103.151.24] has joined #go-nuts 18:16 < jordyd> Good afternoon, kimelto. 18:18 < Ibw> Yes, it is very much afternoon 18:19 < kimelto> not in pacific time ;) 18:19 < Ibw> but just for you, kimelto, I'll say good morning 18:19 < Ibw> It's at least late morning, right? 18:19 < kimelto> yup, 10:21am 18:21 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:22 -!- Popog [n=Adium@71.121.200.233] has joined #go-nuts 18:23 -!- clearscreen [n=clearscr@e248070.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:23 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@71.58.123.111] has quit [] 18:27 -!- jA_cOp [n=yakobu@ti0043a380-3093.bb.online.no] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:27 < tav> http://tav.espians.com/twitter-golang-list-go-mirror-on-github.html 18:27 < tav> =) 18:28 -!- JPascal [n=jpascal@78-106-172-210.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #go-nuts 18:29 -!- sku [n=sk@93.190.179.144] has joined #go-nuts 18:30 < JPascal> Hello all! 18:30 < JPascal> Where I can find StrToInt(), IntToStr() functions? 18:30 < exch> strconv package 18:31 -!- Nanoo [n=Nano@95-89-198-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 18:31 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@host81-154-246-241.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 18:31 < JPascal> Good! Thx) 18:32 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:32 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:33 -!- sliceofpi [n=Adium@98.194.205.176] has quit ["Leaving."] 18:35 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has joined #go-nuts 18:35 -!- raphael [n=rgb@did75-11-82-231-40-223.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 18:35 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:40 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:43 -!- pshahmumbai [n=prashant@59.164.24.169] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 18:46 -!- Fl1pFl0p [n=FlipFlop@ip68-8-225-187.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:50 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit ["MICROSOFT WORD IS A FUN GAME"] 18:50 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 18:54 -!- leitaox [n=leitaox@189.20.94.66] has joined #go-nuts 18:55 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #go-nuts 19:01 -!- brrant [n=John@168.103.78.133] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:05 -!- path[l] [n=path@115.240.59.166] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:05 -!- Rob_Russell [n=chatzill@206-248-157-156.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]"] 19:11 -!- ukl [n=ukl@f053123194.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:17 -!- ukl [n=ukl@78.53.123.194] has joined #go-nuts 19:18 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:19 -!- JPascal [n=jpascal@78-106-172-210.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #go-nuts [] 19:19 -!- ukl [n=ukl@78.53.123.194] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22 -!- zhaozhou [n=zhaozhou@linfast76.bitnet.nu] has joined #go-nuts 19:22 -!- zhaozhou_ [n=zhaozhou@linfast76.bitnet.nu] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:24 -!- Smari [n=smari@130.208.143.11] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:24 -!- shambler [i=kingrat@mm-47-194-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["What you have been is not on boats."] 19:25 -!- alexsuraci` [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:33 -!- tcpip4000 [n=tcpip400@190.84.233.18] has left #go-nuts [] 19:34 -!- malkomalko [n=malkomal@96.232.72.138] has quit [] 19:34 -!- cpr420 [n=cpr420@67.165.199.143] has joined #go-nuts 19:37 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 19:37 -!- westymatt_ [n=westymat@173-17-254-31.client.mchsi.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:43 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 19:44 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has joined #go-nuts 19:49 -!- jobias [n=jobias@S01060024012ca838.ed.shawcable.net] has left #go-nuts [] 19:57 -!- leitaox [n=leitaox@189.20.94.66] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58 -!- slashus2 [n=slashus2@74-137-26-8.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [] 20:00 -!- dat99rmo [n=dat99rmo@212.85.89.41] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:02 -!- shambler [i=kingrat@mm-143-163-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 -!- StDan [n=danielb@124-197-59-227.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:04 -!- StDan [n=danielb@124-197-59-227.callplus.net.nz] has joined #go-nuts 20:08 -!- strick9 [n=safetytr@VDSL-151-118-128-29.DNVR.QWEST.NET] has joined #go-nuts 20:09 -!- sku_ [n=sk@93.190.179.144] has joined #go-nuts 20:10 -!- lux` [n=lux@151.54.240.211] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:11 -!- Guest1746 [n=d@68-189-47-12.dhcp.rdng.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:11 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit ["MICROSOFT WORD IS A FUN GAME"] 20:13 -!- banthar [n=banthar@chello087207235199.chello.pl] has joined #go-nuts 20:16 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #go-nuts 20:17 -!- aho [n=nya@g226146141.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 20:17 < XniX23> banthar: you still doing sdl? :) 20:18 < banthar> im focusing on opengl 20:19 < banthar> there's nothing interesting left in sdl 20:19 -!- aa [n=aa@r200-40-114-26.ae-static.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:19 < Ibw> heh 20:19 < Ibw> Did you do all the third party libraries? 20:19 < banthar> no, just base sdl 20:20 -!- sku [n=sk@93.190.179.144] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:20 -!- dogeen [n=d@68-189-47-12.dhcp.rdng.ca.charter.com] has quit [] 20:21 < Ibw> tav: can people still contribute code through code-review using your git mirror? 20:21 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@200.160.16.18] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:22 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:24 -!- StDan [n=danielb@124-197-59-227.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:26 -!- StDan [n=danielb@124-197-59-227.callplus.net.nz] has joined #go-nuts 20:27 < XniX23> banthar: keyboard keys support is not added is it? 20:31 < banthar> KeyboardEvent is done GetKeyState is not 20:33 -!- dat99rmo [n=dat99rmo@212.85.89.41] has joined #go-nuts 20:36 -!- Anders__ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #go-nuts 20:39 < XniX23> banthar: oh i see ^^ 20:40 -!- westymatt_ [n=westymat@173-17-254-31.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 20:41 -!- GeoBSD [n=geocalc@lns-bzn-22-82-249-100-251.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:42 -!- pagenoare [n=page@unaffiliated/pagenoare] has left #go-nuts [] 20:42 -!- railbait[blowme] [n=railbait@ip68-97-34-79.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:42 -!- gislan [n=gislan@host-81-190-16-19.torun.mm.pl] has joined #go-nuts 20:43 -!- Anders_ [n=Anders@c83-253-2-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:43 -!- geocalc [n=geocalc@lns-bzn-60-82-254-222-50.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:50 -!- decriptor [n=decripto@174-27-134-202.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:51 -!- rajeshsr [n=rajeshsr@59.92.79.210] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:52 < TenOfTen> banthar: hello! great to see youre working on opengl. have you looked into interfacing with glfw? http://www.glfw.org 20:53 -!- BleakGadfly [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:55 < banthar> TenOfTen, i use sdl for that stuff 20:57 -!- FatherDefiance [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:00 < TenOfTen> ah, ok 21:01 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 21:01 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:01 -!- DreamCodeR [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:02 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:02 -!- DreamCodeR [n=BleakGad@81.166.171.168] has joined #go-nuts 21:03 -!- armence [n=armence@c-67-188-229-128.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:04 -!- aaront [n=aaront@mc-125-71.IPReg.McMaster.CA] has joined #go-nuts 21:06 -!- odemia_ [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has joined #go-nuts 21:07 -!- nomism [n=nomism@85.180.118.23] has joined #go-nuts 21:07 -!- nomism [n=nomism@85.180.118.23] has left #go-nuts ["Verlassend"] 21:10 -!- Odemia [n=Odemia-D@207.47.143.154] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 21:12 -!- BleakGadfly [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:14 -!- simonz05 [n=simon@143.84-49-89.nextgentel.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 21:16 -!- BleakGadfly [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:17 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@88.89.66.63] has joined #go-nuts 21:18 -!- FatherDefiance [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:19 -!- aaront [n=aaront@unaffiliated/aaront] has quit ["And that's all he wrote..."] 21:23 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@cpe-72-181-155-75.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:24 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@cpe-72-181-155-75.tx.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 21:24 < Ibw> danderson: Is today a vacation day at Google? 21:25 -!- DreamCodeR [n=BleakGad@81.166.171.168] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 21:25 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@174.32.154.79] has joined #go-nuts 21:25 -!- drusepth [n=drusepth@174.32.154.79] has quit [Client Quit] 21:25 -!- FatherDefiance [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:26 < uriel> Ibw: apparently yes 21:26 <+danderson> Ibw: it's Thanksgiving in the USA. Googlers in the US have a 4-day weekend. 21:27 < XniX23> so no updates for 4 days? 21:27 < Ibw> Cool beans (I'm in the USA, by the way) 21:27 < Ibw> XniX23: That's what it sounds like 21:27 <+danderson> well, hmm 21:28 <+danderson> our calendar only lists today 21:28 <+danderson> so maybe tomorrow is a normal day, except everyone is taking it off :) 21:29 < Ycros> ha 21:29 < Ycros> danderson: so why are you still here? ;) 21:29 <+danderson> Ycros: because there is a world beyond the US? :) 21:29 * danderson lives in Switzerland 21:29 < Ycros> oh! 21:30 < XniX23> i didnt know you can work from home for google 21:30 < Ibw> danderson: Does that mean that you speak German? 21:30 < XniX23> or do you have a small office or smth 21:30 < Ycros> hurr durr 21:30 <+danderson> XniX23: yeah, small. 450 engineers or so :) 21:31 <+danderson> Zurich is the biggest engineering office in Europe 21:31 -!- crashR [n=crasher@78.250.176.9] has quit ["Leaving."] 21:31 <+danderson> Ibw: in theory, yes. In practice, no. 21:31 < XniX23> danderson: thats not small.. :o 21:31 <+danderson> fortunately, Zurich is sufficiently polyglot that I get by with French and English 21:31 -!- sgtarr [n=sgt@rasterburn.org] has quit ["leaving"] 21:31 -!- banthar [n=banthar@chello087207235199.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:32 <+danderson> XniX23: I was joking :) 21:32 -!- neenaoffline [i=neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 -!- banthar [n=banthar@chello087207235199.chello.pl] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 < XniX23> danderson: thank god, i thought my country is even worse in that business 21:33 -!- banthar [n=banthar@chello087207235199.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:34 -!- banthar [n=banthar@chello087207235199.chello.pl] has joined #go-nuts 21:34 -!- banthar [n=banthar@chello087207235199.chello.pl] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:34 < XniX23> anyone making a game? 21:36 -!- keeto [n=keeto@121.54.92.149] has quit [] 21:37 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has quit [] 21:39 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 21:39 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:40 -!- Killerkid [n=l1am9111@host86-132-22-153.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:40 < Killerkid> ls 21:41 -!- jordyd [n=jordyd@99-177-65-75.lightspeed.wepbfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:41 <+danderson> Password: 21:41 -!- BleakGadfly [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:42 < XniX23> talking nonsense? :P 21:42 -!- keeto [n=keeto@121.54.92.149] has joined #go-nuts 21:43 < exch> watching the muppets do Bohemian rhapsody :p 21:43 -!- bennabi [n=bennabi@41.104.102.111] has left #go-nuts [] 21:45 -!- chachan [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has joined #go-nuts 21:46 < XniX23> hah 21:46 < kimelto> it would be nice to have something like linq in go :p 21:48 < Ibw> kimelto: Make it 21:48 -!- sku_ [n=sk@93.190.179.144] has quit [" "] 21:49 -!- chachan [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 21:49 -!- chachan [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has joined #go-nuts 21:49 < kimelto> mmh its more complicated than creating a package, its part of the lang design 21:51 -!- sfuentes_ [n=sfuentes@cpe-98-154-70-216.socal.res.rr.com] has quit ["leaving"] 21:56 -!- |chachan| [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- chachan [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:57 -!- |chachan| [n=chachan@ccscliente156.ifxnetworks.net.ve] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00 -!- ikke [n=1kk3@unaffiliated/ikkebr] has joined #go-nuts 22:02 < olegfink> kimelto: a reasonable approach might be to implement a preprocessor based on go/parser and go/printer. 22:04 -!- dat99rmo [n=dat99rmo@212.85.89.41] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 22:05 -!- Popog [n=Adium@71.121.200.233] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:05 < sahazel> what does go use to build its parser? 22:06 < nbaum> yacc 22:06 < olegfink> there is a separate parser written in go. 22:09 -!- uxp [n=uxp@uxp.dsl.xmission.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:11 -!- teedex [n=teedex@204.14.155.161] has joined #go-nuts 22:12 -!- chid [n=stznkenj@c122-106-95-175.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 22:16 -!- ponce [n=ponce@paradisia.net] has left #go-nuts [] 22:20 -!- bjorn` [i=bjorn@archlinux.no] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:20 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@24.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:22 -!- jophish [n=jophish@hermi.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 22:22 -!- belkiss [n=belkiss@78.235.168.105] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 -!- drry [n=drry@unaffiliated/drry] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)] 22:25 -!- jordyd [n=irchon@166.137.7.163] has joined #go-nuts 22:26 -!- jordyd [n=irchon@166.137.7.163] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:26 -!- neenaoffline [i=neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:26 -!- rog [n=rog@89.240.136.210] has quit [] 22:34 -!- AndrewBC [n=Andrew@97.93.242.12] has joined #go-nuts 22:37 -!- neenaoffline [i=neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:38 -!- mejja [n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:38 < KirkMcDonald> Hmm, found a typo in Make.pkg. 22:40 < halfdan> Keep it ;) 22:43 -!- zerofluid [n=zeroflui@72.208.216.68] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 22:46 -!- triplez [n=triplez@116.197.205.204] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:46 -!- lolsuper_ [n=super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit ["Leaving"] 22:47 -!- ninja-joe [n=ninja-jo@87.102.6.57] has joined #go-nuts 22:47 -!- ninja-joe [n=ninja-jo@87.102.6.57] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"] 22:48 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@cpe-72-181-155-75.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:49 -!- gigatropolis [n=chatzill@c-24-6-103-242.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.4/2009101600]"] 22:50 < Ibw> KirkMcDonald: Where? 22:52 -!- sliceofpi [n=Adium@c-98-194-205-176.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- djanderson [n=dja@74.221.71.42] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- ronaldbe [n=ron@adsl-71-136-239-211.dsl.sndg02.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:53 < KirkMcDonald> Ibw: Line 125. 22:53 -!- bjorn` [i=bjorn@217.68.115.167] has joined #go-nuts 22:54 < KirkMcDonald> Ibw: An unclosed parenthesis. 22:54 < KirkMcDonald> (I'm working on a larger patch to the whole thing, however.) 22:54 < KirkMcDonald> (Well, not that large.) 22:54 < KirkMcDonald> (Introducing a couple of variables.) 22:54 < KirkMcDonald> (E.g. GOFLAGS.) 22:56 < Ibw> Any map implementation in the standard libs? 22:57 < KirkMcDonald> There is the built-in map type. 22:57 < Ibw> oh 22:57 < Ibw> ... 22:57 < Ibw> heh 22:57 < Ibw> thanks, KirkMcDonald 22:58 < XniX23> kinda quiet today here 22:58 < KirkMcDonald> Well, it *is* Thanksgiving. 22:58 < KirkMcDonald> (In this country, at least.) 22:59 -!- Null-A [n=jason@65-119-47-100.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:59 < XniX23> oh right 23:00 < XniX23> KirkMcDonald, lbw since you two seem like experienced programmers, any book recommendations? (its can be about anything from algorithms to theory) :$ 23:01 < KirkMcDonald> Knuth's "The Art of Computer Programming" 23:01 -!- Null-A [n=jason@65-119-47-100.dia.static.qwest.net] has left #go-nuts [] 23:01 < nbaum> The Mythical Man Month. 23:03 < XniX23> thanks both 23:05 -!- neenaoffline [i=neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07 -!- binaryjohn [n=binaryjo@cpe-24-30-132-50.san.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:07 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@88.89.66.63] has quit ["Leaving"] 23:07 -!- ritolatu [n=ritolatu@84.251.84.201] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:07 -!- Raziel2p [n=Raziel2p@ti0032a380-dhcp0316.bb.online.no] has joined #go-nuts 23:08 -!- alexsuraci` [n=alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:08 -!- shambler [i=kingrat@mm-143-163-84-93.dynamic.pppoe.mgts.by] has quit ["What you have been is not on boats."] 23:08 < Ibw> um 23:10 -!- billy [n=billy@v32671.1blu.de] has left #go-nuts [] 23:11 -!- alexsuraci [n=Alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:12 < gislan> is there any scanf-like function in go (like fmt.* for printf)? 23:12 -!- Zeffrin [n=no@110-175-179-56.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 23:13 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@cpe-72-181-155-75.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:14 -!- chid_pingedout [n=fdefwrhf@c122-106-95-175.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 23:14 -!- chid [n=stznkenj@c122-106-95-175.rivrw1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Success] 23:14 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@cpe-72-181-155-75.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:15 -!- ssmall [n=stuart@cpe-72-181-155-75.tx.res.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 23:18 -!- Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/Amaranth] has joined #go-nuts 23:22 -!- melba [n=blee@unaffiliated/lazz0] has quit ["MICROSOFT WORD IS A FUN GAME"] 23:26 -!- FatherDefiance [n=BleakGad@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 23:27 -!- belkiss [n=belkiss@78.235.168.105] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3498, sources date: 20090907, built on: 2009-09-15 20:07:23 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 23:27 < exch> not yet 23:28 < exch> I did fiddle together a nice multi-line string wrapping function with left/right/center/justified alignment and margin support :) http://github.com/jteeuwen/go-playground/blob/master/src/stringwrap.go 23:29 -!- skyyy [n=caw@cpe-24-58-178-87.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:29 -!- FatherDefiance [n=BleakGad@81.166.171.168] has joined #go-nuts 23:29 -!- Zeffrin [n=zeffrin@203.141.132.221.static.zoot.jp] has joined #go-nuts 23:30 < KirkMcDonald> Weird. '6l -Lfoo' doesn't work, but '6l -L foo' does. 23:30 < KirkMcDonald> But '6g -Ifoo' works. 23:30 -!- SRabbelier [n=SRabbeli@ip138-114-211-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit ["Leaving."] 23:30 < KirkMcDonald> Oh wait. 23:31 < KirkMcDonald> No it doesn't. 23:31 < KirkMcDonald> Blargh. 23:31 < dagle2> Never got why not have the space between the flag and the argument. 23:32 -!- GeoBSD [n=geocalc@lns-bzn-22-82-249-100-251.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32 -!- jophish [n=jophish@hermi.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:32 < XniX23> yes, its a lot more readable 23:33 < Ibw> hah 23:34 < ronaldbe> anybody know why this isn't working for compiling using make 23:34 < ronaldbe> .go.6 : 23:34 < ronaldbe> $(CC) $(CCFLAGS) -o $@ $< 23:34 < ronaldbe> keep getting an error on a rule not existing 23:35 -!- msbranco_ [n=msbranco@64-172.61-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:36 < ronaldbe> full Makefile if anybody can help: http://www.pastie.org/716607 23:38 < Ibw> ??? 23:38 < Ibw> Why are you making a makefile like that? 23:38 < Ibw> Look at the makefiles in the standark package source tree 23:38 < ronaldbe> cause i have know clue how to write proper makefiles 23:38 < Ibw> then you will see how to make them work with go 23:38 -!- hipe [n=hipe@c-24-11-83-170.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:38 < ronaldbe> k, i'll check them out then 23:38 < ronaldbe> thanks 23:38 < Ibw> http://golang.org/src/pkg/fmt/Makefile 23:39 < KirkMcDonald> I need to write a follow-up to my blog post about how to build Go packages to explain, like, how to actually use the make stuff. 23:40 < Ibw> mm, would be nice 23:40 < Ibw> What is the link to your blog? 23:40 < KirkMcDonald> http://kirkmcdonald.blogspot.com/2009/11/on-compilation-of-go-packages.html 23:40 < Ibw> exch: Are you going to send it in for inclusion in the strings package? 23:40 < KirkMcDonald> That post explains how to operate the compiler manually. 23:41 < KirkMcDonald> Which is honestly not that useful, since as a rule you'll be using the make stuff. 23:41 < exch> Ibw: dunno. It would be a nice addition.. as well as a simple Replace() function 23:41 < exch> which is in there as well :p 23:41 < XniX23> if im not mistaken, makefiles like that are very good for large projects, or am i wrong? 23:42 < TenOfTen> KirkMcDonald: check out waf if you havent already, it has no go support yet though, http://code.google.com/p/waf/ 23:42 < Ibw> exch: I actually made one as well, though I realized that it only works with ascii chars... doh. I did the same with an Insert() function, but I fixed that and sent it in for review 23:42 < yiyus> KirkMcDonald: does it have any advantage over using $(GOROOT)/src/Make.$(GOARCH) ? 23:43 -!- dju [n=dju@ip-39.net-80-236-37.suresnes.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 23:43 < exch> the Go guys know where my github is by now, so if they are inclined, it's all up for grabs :p 23:43 -!- michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has joined #go-nuts 23:43 < Ibw> @eval e *[]int; 23:43 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near int> 23:43 < Ibw> @eval e []*int; 23:43 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near e> 23:43 < exch> I'm hesitant to send stuff in for review as I usually believe other people can do a better job at what I write 23:43 < Ibw> exch: That's the point of review 23:44 < Ibw> If your code sucks, they tell you 23:44 < exch> yea I know :p 23:44 < XniX23> exch: whats your github? :p 23:44 < exch> :p 23:45 < exch> the one i've been pimping in here for the past week or so :) 23:45 < XniX23> havent seen it :p 23:45 < exch> http://github.com/jteeuwen :p 23:46 < XniX23> oh you're that guy :p 23:47 < exch> yar 23:47 < exch> you make it sound like that's a bad thing :) 23:47 < XniX23> noo 23:49 < Amaranth> @eval var e *[]int; 23:49 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near var> 23:50 < XniX23> @eval var e []*int 23:50 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near var> 23:50 -!- ritolatu [n=ritolatu@84.251.84.201] has joined #go-nuts 23:52 < XniX23> exch: im following you now :P 23:56 < Ibw> huh, how would I make a slice of pointers then? 23:57 < idm> slice alloc'ed using make 23:58 < Ibw> huh? 23:58 < Ibw> I know that 23:58 < Ibw> @eval e := make(*[]int, 10); 23:58 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near e> 23:58 < Ibw> same problem 23:58 < Ibw> @eval e := make([](*int), 10); 23:58 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near e> 23:58 < Ibw> @eval e := make([](*int), 10) 23:58 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near e> 23:59 < Ibw> @eval type blarg *int; e := make([]blarg, 10); 23:59 < rndbot> <Error: syntax error near type, syntax error near 10> 23:59 < Ibw> > type blarg *int; e := make([]blarg, 10); 23:59 < rndbot> <no output> 23:59 -!- michaeljaaka [n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl] has left #go-nuts [] 23:59 < Ibw> > type blarg *int; e := make([]blarg, 10); fmt.Printf("%T, %v", e, e); 23:59 < rndbot> []main.blarg·1, [<nil> <nil> <nil> <nil> <nil> <nil> <nil> <nil> <nil> <nil>] 23:59 < idm> hmm... donno --- Log closed Fri Nov 27 00:00:06 2009