--- Log opened Fri Jan 01 00:00:40 2010
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01:28 < goplexian> hmm
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01:38 < uman> Hi all
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01:39 < waht2> are the 2010s going to be dominated by go?
01:39 < uman> I'm getting "syntax error near else" with those code.
http://pastebin.com/d419007fc can anyone help determine what the problem is?
01:39 < uman> waht2: doubtful
01:39 < waht2> why not
01:39 < uman> waht2: the 2000s were dominated by cobol and C++.  It takes
time for languages to become popular :D
01:40 < uman> 2010s will be dominated by Java and C#
01:40 < uman> waht2: do you know how to fix my syntax error?
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01:42 < dagle> go func { world.dominate(programming.Go); }
01:42 < dagle> Meh.
01:42 < dagle> Syntax error...
01:44 < goplexian> uman, I could be wrong, but I think you need to put the
else on the same line as the closing bracket above it
01:45 < uman> goplexian: I still get a syntax error after doing so
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01:53 < usa> uman, if you are running a recent version then you are hitting
the recent change wrt semicolons.
01:53 < usa> You need to put the "}" and the following "else" on the same
line.
01:55 < uman> ah!  I was mistaken when I told goplexian I still got the
error after putting them on the same line.  You both are right
01:55 < uman> usa: If it's not too much trouble, could you briefly describe
what this change was?
01:57 < goplexian> uman, pretty much delete all colons now
01:58 < usa> Very roughly they reserected an idea from a language called
BCPL.  Semicolons are still statement terminators, but the compilier will insert a
semicolon at the end of every line if it thinks it makes sense to do so, and
therefore you don't have to.
01:59 < usa> The compiler will add a semicolon pretty much everywhere except
after an arithmetic operator.
01:59 < uman> usa: so is the compiler inserting a semicolon between the
statement block corresponding to "if" and the else?
01:59 < usa> Exactly
01:59 < goplexian> uman, an easy way to tell is just run `gofmt -oldparser
-w *.go` it will reformat your go files for you and then you can look at them and
see the standard go formatting
01:59 < uman> goplexian: ok
02:01 < goplexian> however gofmt wont turn non-compiling code into compiling
code, it just changes the format not the syntax
02:01 < uman> is there a way to persuade the compiler not to insert a
semicolon?
02:02 < usa> No
02:02 < uman> Then the Go team has taken a step back even from Visual Basic
02:02 < uman> which at least had a way to escape its
syntactically-significant newlines
02:04 < goplexian> there is still some discussion going on about it, however
being a step back in 1 certain area or not I still think Go has a lot to offer
02:04 < usa> Inserting the semicolons is now part of the definition of the
language.
02:04 < uman> goplexian: of course
02:04 < usa>
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/5ee32b588d10f2e9
02:05 < waht2> golang is glorious
02:05 < waht2> if you don't use golang you are obsolete
02:05 < waht2> golang is the future
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02:05 < uman> waht2: you are adding nothing to the discussion
02:06 < waht2> the discussion is about the power and glory of the golang
02:06 < waht2> therefor you adding nothing
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02:08 * goplexian sighs at waht2
02:09 < uman> waht2: the odds that Go is the "language of the future" are
very slim
02:09 < uman> simply based on the number of programming languages that are
coming out all the time
02:09 < waht2> but how many are backed by google
02:09 < waht2> if c# was developed some indian kid in new delhi no one would
use it
02:10 < waht2> but its backed by microsoft
02:11 < uman> Go is not backed by Google in even close to the same way that
C# is backed by Microsoft
02:11 < goplexian> waht2, I agree, but the difference is (I think) that
Google wont try to evily force Go down developers throats the way MS does.
02:11 < uman> goplexian++
02:11 < uman> waht2: also, Go isn't Enterprisey at all, whereas C# is
02:12 < uman> which is why C# had a much better chance for wide adoption
from the get-go
02:12 < goplexian> Go is to young to say what it isn't yet
02:12 < uman> It
02:12 < uman> 's pretty clear that Go has nothing comparable to the .net
framework
02:12 < goplexian> thank god
02:12 < uman> and probably never will
02:13 < uman> goplexian: I agree that .net is horribly broken, but
popularity and quality are often orthogonal
02:13 < goplexian> .Net is this giant conglomerate, of which c# is just a
small piece, compare c# to Go in 2-3 years and see how things look
02:15 < uman> goplexian: trying to separate c# from .net is like trying to
separate C from libc
02:15 < goplexian> I think Go will look attractive to certain projects, but
obviously its being built to fullfill specific purposes not to be a general
language for all tasks
02:15 < uman> goplexian: right, which is why it's not The Language of the
Future in the way Java and C# are
02:15 < uman> to make something that will become popular, you have to make
pretty drastic compromises.
02:16 < uman> or do you not think James Cameron could make better movies
than Avatar and Titanic if he cared nothing for revenue?  :)
02:17 < goplexian> yeah well I guess it comes down to having a specialized
tool, or a general one, for systems tasks Go will do well, and for less intensive
stuff scripting languages will probably do better
02:18 < uman> yes
02:18 < uman> Trying to make one language for everyone is stupid, and
claiming that Go is such a language is equally stupid
02:18 < uman> (also, realistically, the LANGUAGE OF THE FUTURE is probably
JavaScript, sad but true.)
02:19 < goplexian> probably, I guess it depends on your definition of future
02:21 < waht2> if goes not going to dominate the future why make it
02:21 < uman> waht2: you are an idiot
02:22 < waht2> rude
02:28 < uman> so?
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02:29 < carllerche> Does anybody know why line #14 would make the app crash?
https://gist.github.com/e1c8c3f80050f6f4e76b
02:30 < jackman> I thought Go's objective was to supplant C as a systems
language?
02:31 < jackman> Wasn't that what Pike said?
02:31 < goplexian> yes basically
02:32 < jackman> it had to happen eventually.
02:32 < jackman> I agree with pike.
02:32 < jackman> computing has changed, but programming hasn't
02:33 < jackman> the world has had need of a relatively low level, high
performance language for some time
02:33 < jackman> a new direction
02:33 < jackman> and i think that CSP among other features is a good start.
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02:33 < jackman> if not THE language, go will do some inspiring.
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02:35 < goplexian> I'm interested to see what the first real Go apps will
be, and what Go's first "killer" app will be
02:37 < jackman> just out of curiousity, what might some examples of core
languages and their killer apps?
02:37 < jackman> C -> Linux?
02:37 < jackman> C -> Unix.
02:38 < jackman> BASIC -> Windows.  :P
02:38 < goplexian> I think isn't Perl, and Java both written in C?
02:39 < waht2> windows is also written in c
02:39 < dagle> You could implement the kill command in go.
02:39 < jackman> lol
02:39 < dagle> That will be a killer app.  ;)
02:39 < jackman> the ultimate killer app.
02:39 < goplexian> hehe
02:40 < waht2> maybe someone will use go to program g# which will sort of
look like go but be way more bloated and slow
02:40 < waht2> could be awesome
02:40 < goplexian> -.-
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02:40 < jackman> maybe i'm just lost, but wasn't c# supposed to the MS
version of java?
02:41 < waht2> yeah
02:41 < waht2> they got sued for maing j++
02:41 < jackman> and java was supposed to be c++ (oo c) done right?
02:41 < waht2> not really
02:41 < waht2> java was supposed to be multiplatform
02:41 < waht2> "write once, run anywhere"
02:41 < jackman> well, that too.
02:41 < dagle> And less ugly then c++.
02:42 < waht2> but java is plenty ugly
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02:42 < uman> waht2: and useless
02:42 < jackman> but they intentionally used C-like syntax and objects
similar to those of C++ with garbage collecting and a lack of C++ annoyances.
02:42 < uman> waht2: sorry, hadn't read the whole scrollback, was saying g#
would be useless :)
02:42 < dagle> java is better in some ways then c++.
02:42 < waht2> languages always look ugly if 1) its not your best language
2) you're working on someone elses code
02:42 < uman> dagle: in many ways
02:43 < goplexian> uman, I think Java was a lot worse than C++ for a looong
time though, in my opinion it has only recently begun to surpass it
02:44 < waht2> yeah because you got better at it
02:44 < jackman> i like java now...
02:44 < jackman> java got a bad wrap a long time ago, but i didn't really
know it then.
02:44 < waht2> i used to think perl looked great until i went back like ten
years later and looked at some perl code
02:44 < jackman> i use java for user interfaces and stuff...
02:45 < jackman> i've been using c++ for database interfacing and backend
apps.
02:45 < jackman> c++ is faster and supports low level interfacing, something
that java just doesn't quite do...
02:46 < carllerche> I'm unsure why line #14 crashes.  I thought listen would
be captured by the closure: https://gist.github.com/e1c8c3f80050f6f4e76b
02:46 < jackman> carllerche: i looked at it.  i'm not intentionally ignoring
you.  :)
02:47 < jackman> i'm not sure.  :(
02:47 < carllerche> just unsure if i got lost in the noise :P I'm trying to
reproduce a similar case but am unsuccessful.
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02:52 < jackman> When languages are first developed, do the
compilers/interpreters remain in another language?
02:52 < jackman> I seem to remember reading that C was written in asm and
then re-written in C...
02:53 < waht2> what was assembly written in
02:53 < waht2> writing c in assembly must have been annoying
02:54 < waht2> how many years did that take
02:54 < waht2> 10000 hours
02:55 < mauke> did they even have text editors back then
02:55 < goplexian> wasn't there originally like 3 or 4 versions of C, each
one written by a different company?
02:55 < mauke> goplexian: that seems to contradict "originally"
02:55 < uman> jackman: I think lots of the .net framework is written in C++
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02:55 < goplexian> mauke, yes, but I mean originally in the sense of when C
first became popular
02:56 < uman> goplexian: how is that different from the case now?
02:56 < uman> you have visual studio compiler and gcc and whatever else
02:56 < waht2> there weren't proprietary languages back then like now
02:56 < waht2> like java or whatever
02:56 < goplexian> well if I recall correctly the different versions were
each slightly different since things had yet to be standardized
02:56 < uman> goplexian: they are still slightly different (although they
were more different before)
02:57 < goplexian> yeah I guess thats true
03:00 < carllerche> jackman: I'm submitting a ticket,
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=481
03:01 < waht2> how come guys who write languages are more cocky
03:01 < waht2> bjarne soustruop is so laid back
03:02 < waht2> i mean if someone from wall st.  did something even one
quarter as productive he'd be driving around in a bently with a 10,000 dollar suit
03:02 < waht2> suostruop just sits there in a shirt and jeans with a bad
haircut
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03:04 < waht2> the average hedge fund manager or venture capitalist thinks
hes the dopest thing since dope meanwhile the people who actuall create all the
tech are just chillen geek style
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03:31 < Guest71357> hello....
03:31 < Guest71357> anybody home???
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03:33 < goplexian> hmmm chicken wings
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03:34 < waht2> i don't know man
03:34 < waht2> is it productive to learn go
03:34 < waht2> or should i just stick to c++
03:34 < waht2> or learn ruby
03:35 < waht2> or how about c#
03:35 < waht2> or c++/cli
03:35 < waht2> whats the ultimate
03:35 < syd> whatever works for you
03:35 < goplexian> I think you're asking the wrong question man, you should
ask "What do I want to do?"
03:35 < waht2> sometimes choice wastes productivity because you waste time
choosing
03:35 < waht2> i want to program stuff and have it be awesome
03:35 < goplexian> once you figure out what you want to do then find a
language that suits it
03:36 < syd> try a pen and paper then
03:36 < goplexian> waht2, what type of awesome stuff though?
03:36 < waht2> super awesome if possible
03:37 < goplexian> then you need to forget all those other languages and
just learn go
03:37 < Boggy-B> lol
03:37 < waht2> someone should invent a language thats good at everything
03:37 < waht2> it would increase global productivity
03:37 < syd> or work on your trolling skills
03:37 < syd> they're average
03:37 < waht2> i find your lack of enthusiasm for go disturbing
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03:38 < Boggy-B> everyone knows good trolls start talking about their VB
experence
03:38 < waht2> imagine every school could teach the same language, the
bookstore would only need one shelf, libraries could save money, employers could
hire people more easily, global gdp would go sky high
03:38 < waht2> it would be glorious
03:38 < syd> meet you in utopia
03:39 < Boggy-B> he's convinced me, im gonna go back to ASM :p
03:39 < waht2> think of how much time programmers waste learning new
languages or using languages they arent used to
03:39 < goplexian> hey some people watch tv, others learn a language
03:40 < waht2> yeah but if you only had one language everyone could watch tv
03:40 < Boggy-B> imo, programming is a skillset that transfers between
languages pretty quickly
03:40 < waht2> perhaps
03:41 < Boggy-B> nearly 4am now, bed time o/
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03:56 < neon> hey guys...
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03:56 < goplexian> hey
03:57 < jackman> hey
03:57 < Guest8153> i installed the required packages but i didn't get the
GOROOT dir...
03:58 < waht2> go is amazing
03:58 < waht2> go will blow your mind man
03:58 < jackman> you didn't get it?
03:58 < jackman> you mean like you didn't understand it or it's just not
there?
03:59 < Guest8153> it's not there
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03:59 < jackman> what do you get when you type "echo $GOROOT" at the prompt?
03:59 < Guest8153> nothhing..
04:00 < Guest8153> just blank and the $
04:00 < waht2> go is like vision into the future of computing
04:00 < waht2> if you're not using go you should be
04:00 < waht2> go is outstanding
04:01 < jackman> you need to do something like "export GOROOT=$HOME/go" in
your .bashrc
04:01 < goplexian> waht2, Go doesn't need fanbois
04:01 < jackman> all of those shell variables need to be set for the
installation package to work properly.
04:01 < jackman> I had to set all of them, even the 'optional' variables.
04:01 < waht2> how can know go and not be a fanboi
04:02 < waht2> this is impossible
04:02 < jackman> http://golang.org/doc/install.html
04:02 < jackman> it's best to set the variables in your .bashrc because you
don't want to set them by hand every time you open a new shell.
04:06 < Guest8153> i'm sorry i'm a complete noob at this but do i have to
just copy paste these lines in .bashrc????
04:07 < goplexian> neon, , what operating system are you using?
04:07 < neon> ubuntu 9.10
04:07 < goplexian> then yes put them in your .bashrc
04:07 < waht2> is go in fedora yet
04:07 < waht2> if you get go in fedora it will help promote it
04:07 < waht2> amirite
04:07 < Guest31106> thanks
04:09 < goplexian> I pasted these lines at the bottom of my .bashrc
04:09 < goplexian> export GOROOT=$HOME/opt/go
04:09 < goplexian> export GOARCH=amd64
04:09 < goplexian> export GOOS=linux
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04:10 < waht2> does go have templates
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04:13 < goplexian> where would I look in the source to find how structs are
defined and used?
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04:14 < waht2> maybe structs are deprecated and they have a new futuristic
way even better than structs
04:16 < Guest77424> hey i'm back again.
04:16 < goplexian> hey
04:16 < waht2> awesome
04:17 < Guest77424> i added the variables but to no avail....
04:17 < Guest77424> cd $GOROOT/src
04:17 < Guest77424> when i write this it says
04:17 < Guest77424> no such file or directory
04:18 < goplexian> what happens when you type echo $GOROOT
04:18 < Guest77424> /home/me/go
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04:18 < goplexian> run this now `hg clone -r release
https://go.googlecode.com/hg/ $GOROOT`
04:21 < goplexian> actually, first type this `cd && pwd` it should say:
/home/me
04:22 < gnuvince> Has anyone tried Project Euler's problem 14 with Go? My
version in Java (Scala actually) takes 1.3s, and the Go version takes 8s.  My
code: http://pastebin.ca/1733716
04:22 < Guest77424> ya i'm in the home directory....
04:23 < Guest77424> @goplexian:if i want to use gccgo do i still need to
install these packages??
04:23 < goplexian> Guest55133, I use the plan9 compilers, I'm not sure
04:23 < goplexian> I've been meaning to get gccgo setup but havent got
around to it
04:25 < Guest77424> one more thing
04:25 < Guest77424> how do i change my chat name????
04:26 < goplexian> type `/nick neon`
04:26 < Guest77424> i'm using quassel
04:26 < goplexian> use xchat :P
04:26 < neon> ok
04:26 < neon> thanks
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04:30 < jackman> xchat?  pff!  everyone knows irssi is superior.
04:30 < goplexian> hah
04:31 < jessta> gnuvince: jvm is pretty good at optimising, probably
unrolling that loop a bit
04:31 < goplexian> jackman, erc eats irssi for lunch
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04:31 < jessta> jackman: true, except that irssi is still terrible
04:31 < anticw> mature JVMs optimize quite a bit, things like overflow
checking can be optimized with loops too often
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04:32 < jackman> lol
04:32 < Ycros> I'm using Quassel as well
04:32 < jackman> irssi supports scripting, i can screen it, and i can ignore
annoying people.
04:32 < jackman> that's about all i care about.  :)
04:32 < jessta> I have plans to use ii
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04:33 < jackman> gccgo must be a part of another package because it isn't
included with the plan9 go package.
04:33 < jessta> but requires a good interface
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04:33 < jessta> screen is such a nasty hack
04:33 < jackman> it does its job well.
04:33 < Ycros> ii is a silly concept
04:34 < goplexian> ii?
04:34 < quag> jessta: how about tmux?
04:34 < jessta> goplexian: http://tools.suckless.org/ii
04:35 < jessta> quag: yeah, I actually really dislike terminal applications
04:36 < quag> jessta: oh?
04:36 < gnuvince> jessta: it's kind of weird that for most problems, Go and
Scala are pretty much equivalent
04:36 < jackman> ehh...
04:36 < jackman> i'll stick with irssi.
04:37 < jessta> jackman: I've been using irssi+screen+ssh+colocation for the
past 7 years, but I still think it's silly
04:37 < goplexian> 4 buffers with a shell in 1, two Go files in the other,
and erc in the bottom corner, optimal screen space :P
04:37 < jessta> user interfaces running remotely is yucky
04:38 < jackman> jessta: what would you recommend?
04:38 < jackman> goplexian: i wish to hear more of this magic you speak of.
04:39 < goplexian> s/magic/emacs
04:39 < anticw> getting back to Go ...  there is room there to great a nice
IRC/IM proxy that people can access remotely
04:39 < jackman> i log in via ssh to my linux host at home.
04:39 < jackman> due to firewall restrictions, i have to run everything
through ssh anyway.
04:39 < anticw> either using IRC, http or whatever...  so those who which to
avoid screen can do so
04:40 < jackman> anticw: so just a custom interface?
04:40 < jessta> jackman: If I had a better setup I'd be using it.  Pretty
much an irc proxy running on a co-location and a local X11(dio or maybe acme)
program to access that
04:41 < jackman> jessta: eh...  I have yet to find an X11 server that plays
well with windows.  i am being paid by people that like windows.  :[
04:41 < jackman> goplexian: ...eeeemacsss?
04:42 < jackman> goplexian: :P emacs does irc?
04:43 < jackman> ummm...
04:43 < jackman> did i just get disconnected?
04:44 < goplexian> sorry, yes it does
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04:44 < goplexian> erc is a built in irc client in emacs
04:44 < jackman> I have merely become an apprentice with emacs.  i have
already found it to be superior to any editor i have ever used EVER.
04:45 < jackman> how do i active erc?
04:45 < goplexian> it is mighty
04:45 < goplexian> M+x erc
04:45 < jackman> s/active/activate
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04:46 < jackman-emacs> testing...
04:46 < jackman-emacs> is this thing on?
04:46 < jackman-emacs> I like the colors!
04:46 < goplexian> test fail
04:47 < jackman> does it support multiple rooms as does irssi?
04:47 < goplexian> yes
04:47 < goplexian> it will open a new buffer for each room
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04:48 < jackman-emacs> I like this.
04:48 < jackman-emacs> I will check out more of the documentation.
04:49 < goplexian> I always keep a shell open in a buffer as well `M+x
ansi-term`
04:50 < goplexian> then just maximize and split the windows a few times and
you got everything
04:50 < anticw> jackman: i'm suggesting an irc/im proxy that allows multiple
clients
04:50 < JBeshir> anticw: You mean Bitlbee?
04:50 < anticw> jackman: so people can have the 'always on' behaviour and
use a mixture of terminal, web, customer client (proxy to another protocol),
iphone app, whatever to talk
04:50 < JBeshir> Or Minbif?
04:50 < jackman-emacs> I will go nuts with this.
04:50 < anticw> JBeshir: much more involved
04:51 < anticw> JBeshir: bitlbee is pretty minimal and only talks IRC
04:51 < JBeshir> anticw: You mean something allowing proxying in all
directions?
04:51 < anticw> imagine something that talks oscar, jabber, irc, yim and
abstracts this out
04:51 < JBeshir> That'd be weird, and you couldn't run a public one for IRC.
04:51 < goplexian> jackman-emacs: M+x ercTAB to see a bunch of commands,
I've been meaning to try erc-add-fool on a certain someone for a while
04:51 < jackman-emacs> anticw: pidgin/finch is coming to mind.
04:51 < JBeshir> You'd be blocked from every IRC network in about five
minutes
04:51 < JBeshir> Potential for abuse is too high
04:52 < anticw> JBeshir: more than just a mux ...  you want something that
holds state and abstracts out some features, like file download, and maybe even
some media stuff
04:52 < anticw> JBeshir: i don't see why anyone would be blocked ...  it
would be like screen + irssi + bitlbee ...  but done cleanly
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05:32 < jackman> brb...  I'm gonna kill screen.  :)
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05:52 < goplexian> thoughts?
http://www.goplexian.com/2009/12/shorthand-initialization-of-structs-in.html
05:52 < waht2> some evil doer told me go makes huge binaries
05:52 < waht2> was he fibbing
05:53 < goplexian> no
05:54 < jackman> that's pretty groovy.
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05:54 < JBeshir> He wa telling dirty filthy lies, waht2
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05:54 < JBeshir> Go's binaries are larger than C binaries, because of the
runtime and the static build, btu they're not "huge".
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06:32 < jessta> so I thought I might try reading the go compiler etc, anyone
point me to the best place to start?
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06:48 < jackman> has anyone seen goplexian?
06:50 < jessta> not since they parted 40 mins ago
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06:51 < jackman> goplexian: hey!
06:51 < jackman> you're back!
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06:51 < jackman> you're gone!
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06:51 < jackman> you're back!
06:51 < goplexian> I am sir
06:51 < jackman> did you get it to work?
06:51 < goplexian> yes
06:52 < Guest68782> gah
06:52 < jackman> wtf?  you're a guest!
06:52 < jackman> you deceived me!
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07:03 < goplexian> hmm
07:03 < goplexian> ya it works!
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07:06 < jackman> that works.
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07:19 < goplexian> apologies for all the leaving/joining, just setting up
erc
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07:19 < goplexian> OK that should be about it.
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["There are two major products that come out of Berkeley: LSD and UNIX.  We don't
believe this to be a coincidence."]
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08:03 < goplexian> jackman: are you converted to emacs yet or what?
08:04 < jackman> lol
08:04 < jackman> ya
08:04 < jackman> unfortunately, some of the programs i use don't agree with
the key bindings.  :(
08:05 < goplexian> yeah there just aren't enough keys
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08:07 < jackman|emacs> the only conflict with screen i see is that screen
uses C-a, which is beginning of line...
08:08 < jackman|emacs> screen captures the C-a, no?
08:09 < jackman|emacs> happy new year, btw.
08:09 < goplexian> Im not a screener, but I think the usual key most use to
substitute when there is a conflict is either a win-logo key , or the Esc key
08:09 < jackman|emacs> It's already 1AM here.  :)
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08:10 < goplexian> hey!  yeah just hit it myself about 10min ago, didnt
notice :S
08:11 < jackman|emacs> lol
08:11 < goplexian> man, cant believe first 10 years of this century is
already over
08:11 < jackman|emacs> i get to spend it at work.  :)
08:11 < jackman|emacs> i'm here for a little while longer yet.
08:12 < goplexian> working at 1am?  what are you a bartender?  lol
08:12 < jackman|emacs> i'd probably get paid better if i were.  :)
08:12 < jackman|emacs> I'm a systems monitor at a data processing center.
08:13 < goplexian> cool
08:13 < jackman|emacs> it's a good job.
08:13 < jackman|emacs> i'd like to move back to oregon sometime in the near
future, tho.
08:13 < jackman|emacs> it's all a matter of money, tho.
08:14 < goplexian> must be some serious data to have an on-site watchman, i
take it this is a round the clock type thing
08:15 < jackman> ya
08:15 < jackman> i'm here during processing hours.
08:15 < jackman> there's another guy that comes in to do the
clean/maintenance.
08:15 < jackman> what do you do?
08:16 < goplexian> eat mostly
08:16 < goplexian> occasionally sleep
08:17 < jackman> that's a good life!
08:17 < jackman> do you get paid to do that?
08:17 < goplexian> I'm working on it!
08:21 < quag> anyone know a simple way to convert a []byte to a hex string?
08:26 < quag> answer: fmt.Sprintf("%x", bytes)
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08:28 < goplexian> the fmt package is very useful
08:37 < quag> goplexian: do you have some fmt tricks in mind?
08:38 < goplexian> not really, brb
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09:01 < jackman> hey, goplexian
09:01 < jackman> what's the deal with mysql?
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12:06 < jhh> hohoho
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14:29 < jessta> Guest42953: havin some kind of identity crisis?
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14:44 < taruti> What are the semantics of assigning a value to an interface
value with regards to concurrency?
14:44 < taruti> Is it atomic?
14:44 < taruti> (because the values are two words does overwriting a
interface value without lock expose a dirty state)
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14:49 < jessta> taruti: I don't understand the question
14:50 < jessta> you can cast a value to an interface that it's type satifies
14:52 < taruti> jessta: given a "a []FooInterface" and "a[0] = bar" is the
assignment atomic with regards to multiple go-routines
14:54 < taruti> jessta: since in the memory layout interfaces are two words
is there a window where an inconsistent read could occur?
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15:13 < jessta> taruti: yeah, probably not atomic
15:14 < jessta> it would be atomic between goroutiens but not between
threads
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15:37 < napsy> Hello.  Can I initialize a structure on declaration?
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15:50 < taruti> hmm, that makes lots of code unsafe :(
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15:51 < jessta> taruti: a pointer to an interface would be atomic I'd say
15:52 < jessta> but also, share by communicating, don't communicate by
sharing
15:52 < damjan> Just installed Go..  it put the compiler and linker to
~/bin/ ...  but where does it read the object files for the libraries from?  the
source directory?
15:52 < taruti> jessta: large datastructures?
15:52 < jessta> damjan: GOROOT
15:53 < damjan> hm, wait, GOROOT can be something different than the source
dir?
15:54 < jessta> GOROOT can be anything you want, but the compiler and linker
will look there for packages
15:55 < jessta> so it's best to leave it as the source directory
15:55 < ShadowIce> makefiles may use it as well...
15:55 < jessta> taruti: send pointers over channels
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15:57 < damjan> oh, no, it seems it must be the source directory
16:03 < taruti> jessta: yes, that is possible, just kind of slow (yet
another indirection)
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16:09 < napsy> Can I initialize a structure when declaring it?
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16:57 < sheb> is there a way to make . DOTALL with the regexp package ?
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17:05 < Null-A> what are google plan's for resource contribution to go in
the next few years?
17:05 < Null-A> are the original authors going to continue working on this
for a while?
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17:14 < skelterjohn> sheb: i don't follow what you mean
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17:19 < jhh> skelterjohn: could you maybe have a look at
http://pastebin.com/d1c131fb9 ?
17:20 < sheb> i got a panic when compiling this regexp : {% block ([a-z]+)
%}((?:[\n\r]+|.)+?){% endblock %}
17:20 < sheb> regexp: compiling " {% block ([a-z]+) %}((?:[
17:20 < sheb> ]+|.)+?){% endblock %} ": unmatched '('
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17:25 < jhh> what is "(?" doing?
17:25 < jhh> what is the ? making optional?
17:25 < napsy> what does type() do?
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17:36 < skelterjohn> looks cool, jhh.  for your lexer?
17:37 < jhh> skelterjohn: yeah.  it's probably something rather stupid.  i
get empty strings out of the channel
17:37 < skelterjohn> oh didn't realize there was a bug
17:37 < skelterjohn> sec
17:38 < skelterjohn> out of the line stream?
17:40 < jhh> yeah
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17:41 < jhh> i get one line printed in the streamLines function, but only an
empty one in the streamRunes function
17:43 < skelterjohn> one thing - you're not calling <- and closed() in
the right order
17:43 < skelterjohn> i don't know if that is the problem you're running into
though
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17:43 < skelterjohn> but the idiom is "v, ok := <-ch, closed(ch)"
17:44 < skelterjohn> ch will give you one (invalid) nil value before closed
returns true
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17:44 < jessta> taruti: well, you have three choices, use locks, not have a
shared data structure or get a CPU that can do larger compare and swaps
17:44 < skelterjohn> if you check closed first, the last thing you get out
of the channel will be bogus
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17:46 < jhh> i see, thanks, I'll try that
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17:58 < taruti> jessta: there is also the "use a more sensible language"
choice ;)
17:58 < JBeshir> taruti: Which does that internally.
17:59 < taruti> JBeshir: not really
17:59 < JBeshir> Yes really
17:59 < JBeshir> How do you think it technically works?
17:59 < JBeshir> Magic?
18:00 < taruti> JBeshir: no, just the way the words are arranged in the
memory.  the interface solution vs the more classic way of handling it.
18:01 < JBeshir> I don't see how that relates to multiword values having
atomic assignment.
18:01 < JBeshir> (Or, rather, not)
18:02 < taruti> JBeshir: classic way:
<pointer>->{<vtableptr>, <field1>, ...}, in the go way
<pointer>->{<vtableptr>,<pointer>->{field1, ...}} (given
interface pointers required by atomic assignment)
18:03 < JBeshir> I don't see how it's atomic in the classic way, either.
18:04 < JBeshir> I don't think assignment is automatically atomic in C, for
example.
18:04 < taruti> JBeshir: with a suitable compiler+platform assignment to a
pointer is atomic in C.
18:05 < skelterjohn> either it's part of the language or it isn't
18:05 < JBeshir> taruti: To a pointer, yes, because a pointer is small
enough to be.
18:06 < taruti> JBeshir: and thus the memory layout of go-interfaces is
suboptimal for this problem.
18:07 < JBeshir> taruti: Perhaps, but it doesn't make a difference if the
thing implementing a structure is multiword
18:07 < JBeshir> Er, a interface
18:07 < JBeshir> And it seems very wrong to assume it isn't
18:08 < taruti> JBeshir: interfaces are 2-word things in the current go.
18:08 < JBeshir> I know.
18:08 < taruti> in this instance it makes a difference.
18:09 < JBeshir> An incredibly specific instance.
18:09 < taruti> even the pointer assigment being atomic is not guaranteeded
by either C or Go.
18:09 < taruti> JBeshir: of course.
18:09 < skelterjohn> are we discussing the pitfalls of using shared memory
for communication?
18:10 < JBeshir> skelterjohn: Sort of.
18:10 < skelterjohn> the general idea is "don't", i think
18:10 < JBeshir> taruti: Then I guess there's no difference in terms of
safety.
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18:11 < taruti> skelterjohn: e.g.  data-flow languages share memory quite
elegantly as does STM.
18:12 < skelterjohn> what's STM?
18:12 < taruti> Software Transactional Memory
18:12 < skelterjohn> i meant the general idea in go programming.  not the
general idea in...general
18:13 < taruti> skelterjohn: of course there is no generic way to do a copy
of something in Go, so "send a copy" is not really possible with most code made up
from non-local components.
18:14 < skelterjohn> *shrug* this is the kind of thing that you can always
come up with an example for, and then have someone show you a different way to do
that example that works in the target paradigm
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18:35 < dagle> A go-fork with lojban as syntax lang?  :)
18:39 < jessta> sounds pretty easy
18:41 < jessta> taruti: go uses shared memory quite elegantly too, by
passing it around between goroutines
18:43 < dagle> jessta: My lojban sucks.  Think that would be the biggest
problem.
18:52 < jessta> yeah, but automatic translation of the keywords wouldn't be
hard
18:53 < jessta> only 25 keywords
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18:59 < dagle> Yeah.
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19:12 < waht> go: great language or greatest language?
19:14 < taruti> promising language that might become great
19:15 <+danderson> neat language.  There is no greatest language
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19:16 <+danderson> people who believe in silver bullets for programming
haven't seen enough different problems yet :)
19:16 -!- b00m_chef__ [n=watr@host-212-68-232-232.brutele.be] has joined #go-nuts
19:16 < damjan> it has great potentital to replace C/C++ so that's enough
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19:19 < anticw> except it won't
19:19 < waht> why not
19:19 < anticw> there is the assumption that c needs replacing, i'm sure
many will disagree
19:20 < waht> yeah but a lot of suits figure if some technology is ten years
old or more then it should be updated
19:20 < dho> so
19:20 < dho> I just got into someone else's comcast account
19:20 < waht> the forget that things that aren't for profit don't need to be
endlessly updated
19:21 < dho> Trying to pay my bill, couldn't remember my login info
19:21 < waht> cyber criminal hacker
19:21 < dho> i thought it was dodell@comcast.net, so i gave the online chat
rep my info
19:21 < dho> dodell is some lady in florida
19:21 < jessta> lol
19:21 < goplexian> I don't like the word replacing to me it seems to say
that old projects will get converted, and that rarely happens, Go just wants to be
an option for new projects who are considering C to them Go will look attractive
if it can deliver on its goals
19:21 < dho> by the time i realized it i had already changed her password
19:22 < dho> so i call comcast, and they're like `we cant do anything unless
she calls us'
19:22 < dho> so i'm like wtf
19:22 < jessta> dho: why did comcast give you access?
19:22 < dho> so i looked up her number from her comcast bill and called her
19:22 < dho> jessta: because i have the same first initial and last name
19:22 < goplexian> lol
19:22 < jessta> of course!
19:22 < waht> comcast is retarded
19:22 < waht> that's what happens when you outsource your call center
19:22 < dho> jessta: I live in a different state, have a different last-4 on
my social, different account number, and obviously very different address
19:22 < dho> i just thought my username was dodell and my name is Devon
O'Dell
19:22 < goplexian> that would be quit worrisome, some stranger calls you and
tells you they have your account info..
19:23 < jessta> dho: so knowing someone's name is all you need?
19:23 < dho> jessta: no, you probably also have to have a comcast account
19:23 < jessta> lol
19:23 < dho> goplexian: yeah, i go `hi is this dxxxx odell?'
19:23 < dho> she says `uh, may i ask who this is?'
19:24 < dho> i said, `well, this is going to be weird.  my name is devon
o'dell and i'm looking at your comcast bill right now'
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19:24 < goplexian> oh wow
19:24 < dho> unreal
19:24 < dho> and comcast wasn't even going to do anything about it
19:24 < dho> waht: the callcenter isn't outsourced, but i bet the online
chat is
19:25 < jessta> security IRL is surprisingly weak
19:25 < dho> though i was speaking with a `crystal'
19:25 < goplexian> company's really dont give a shit about consumer clients
19:25 < dho> goplexian: she's got business class
19:25 < goplexian> the more clients you have the less you care
19:25 < dho> with 2 ip phone numbers
19:25 < waht> that's true everyone complains about indian accents hard to
understand but on chat not a problem
19:25 < dho> her bill is like ~300/mo
19:25 < goplexian> jeeezz
19:25 < dho> yeah, so
19:25 < dho> unreal.
19:26 < dho> it's like
19:26 < dho> i'd just switch carriers if i had another option.
19:26 < goplexian> got straited out though I presume, kudos for fixing it
man
19:26 < waht> switch to fiber from the phone company
19:26 < dho> waht: I don't have fios.
19:26 < dho> access
19:26 < dho> like, i'm 2 blocks from the farthest extent
19:27 < dho> goplexian: yeah.  thanks.
19:27 < dho> she's like `yeah i cant read my email.'
19:27 < dho> i said `yeah, so i changed your password before i realized.'
19:27 < dho> so i reset her password to something and told her to call
comcast and change her password
19:27 < waht> you'll probably get sued by somebody
19:28 < dho> like, i know most of the hacking that goes on is due to social
engineering
19:28 < waht> doing the right thing usually results in lawyer attack
19:28 < dho> waht: requires malicious intent
19:28 < dho> waht: comcast is at fault
19:29 < waht> yeah but large buearacracies hate it if you cut around them
like that
19:29 < dho> i'd be happy for them to take me to court
19:29 < dho> maybe i can get some words in about how i have no other options
for internet
19:29 < dho> i can't even get dsl from verizon
19:30 < waht> in this glorious free market economy you don't have a choice?
unpossible, i for one am shocked
19:30 < dho> nope.
19:30 < dho> they offer phone, wireless, and directv through verizon
19:30 < dho> i guess i could get lolsatellite internet
19:31 < dho> because what i really want to do is add 2 seconds of latency
19:31 < waht> there is directv satellite internet but don't try to check
your email when its rainign
19:32 < dho> i should email bruce schneier
19:32 < dho> though it'd likely generate nothing other than `good story'
19:32 < waht> i used to have satellite tv it was retarded, on a rainy summer
afternoon i'm like a yes what better time to veg out on the tv, but oh no the tv
does not work!  very annoying
19:32 < dho> if anybody had suggestions, i'm sure he would.
19:33 < dho> waht: had it when i lived in the mountains in wnc, it had to be
*really* shit weather for it to totally cut out, but yea
19:33 < dho> anyway
19:33 < dho> i've gotta get some stuff done
19:33 < dho> happy new year everyone.
19:33 < waht> well it would work but it would look like a pre-youtube stream
wmv
19:33 < waht> off color choppy 5 seconds pauses etc.
19:33 < waht> yes i must be more productive in this new decade
19:35 < jessta> waht: that's what I said
19:35 < goplexian> we need to write a Go lib for this immediately: HTCPCP
(Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol)
19:35 < jessta> but instead I'm reading reddit
19:36 < jessta> and replying to silly posts on the mailing list
19:36 < jessta> goplexian: I don't know a cofee pot that speaks it
19:37 < jessta> but I do want a coffee
19:37 < goplexian> neither do I, but my new goal is to find one
19:39 < jessta> it's terrible, I only have instant
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19:40 < goplexian> blech!
19:40 < jessta> this isn't even my house
19:40 < jessta> my house has lovely coffee, but I'm lazy and it's a whole
9km away
19:41 < goplexian> I hate waking up in the wrong house
19:42 < jessta> nah, this house lacks coffee, but had a beautiful women to
wake up to
19:46 < skelterjohn> and a laptop, apparently
19:47 < jessta> was just reading the go compiler code, _yylex() is awesome,
500 lines
19:50 < jessta> yeah, the laptop goes with me everywhere
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20:12 < waht> what's a good newsreader on linux
20:14 < jhh> jessta: was that irony?
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20:17 < jessta> jhh: which what?
20:18 < jessta> waht: I've been looking for one for years
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20:42 < jhh> jessta: that about the 500 lines lexer
20:42 < skelterjohn> jessta: I think jhh was referring to your comments
about _yylex()
20:43 < skelterjohn> doh
20:43 < jhh> full hit :)
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20:46 < jessta> jhh: partly
20:47 -!- tar_ [n=tom@cpe-24-210-143-83.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts
20:47 < jhh> I was thinking about writing golex or something like that, but
then i notices, that all scanners are coded by hand.
20:48 < jhh> what are your thoughts on the _yylex()?
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21:32 < jhh> the error messages you can get out of goyacc are horrible.  I
mean the the error messages of the compiled parser.
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22:21 < uman> waht: I use nrss
22:21 < uman> waht: it's pretty shitty though
22:21 < uman> waht: oops, misinterpreted your question I think.  nrss is a
feed aggregator
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22:29 < uman> there seems to be no constructor for a vector
22:29 < uman> so I can just declare a new variable of type vector and
magically it'll be initialized properly?
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22:31 < tar_> "The zero value for Vector is an empty vector ready to use" so
it needs no initialization
22:31 < uman> tar_: I see
22:31 < uman> tar_: where did you find this?
22:31 < tar_> http://golang.org/pkg/container/vector/#Vector
22:31 < uman> tar_: right, thanks
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[]
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22:41 < uman> shouldn't I be able to use a slice of any type somewhere where
[]interface{} is called for?
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23:02 < dho> hm
23:04 < waht> oh god firefox so slow
23:05 < waht> the best part is it lags the whole desktop ,awesome!
23:06 < waht> linux is so snappy
23:06 < waht> clearly the year of the linux desktop is upon us
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23:22 < tar_> I think I'll fork Debian and finally make the perfect desktop
Linux.
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23:32 < sheb> i want to create a little template engine in go, what's the
most efficient method/algorithm for parsing the template ? regexp ? line by line ?
23:33 < jhh> sheb: probably scan the text yourself
23:35 < uman> tar_: that's never been done before
23:36 < tar_> uman: what can I say?  I innovate.
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23:38 < uman> where can I report an error in the Go documentation?
23:42 < anticw> golang.org -> issue tracker
23:43 < uman> anticw: thank you
23:48 < Ycros> tar_: pretty sure uman was being sarcastic there
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23:48 < uman> Ycros: so was tar_, I think :)
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23:49 * tar_ deletes his UsableLinux repo before anybody sees it
23:50 < uman> couldn't even be original enough to make one that doesn't
start with U ?
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23:51 < tar_> haha
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 02 00:00:08 2010