--- Log opened Fri Jan 08 00:00:44 2010
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00:07 < goplexian> I'm having trouble with file.WriteAt()
00:09 < goplexian> the docs says the arguments are (b []byte, off int64)
00:11 < goplexian> and I am trying to use a struct with a Write() method as
(b) and a bytes.Buffer.Len() as (off), but I get an error saying cannot use x
(type *X) as type []uint8 in fuction argument
00:11 < goplexian> so it doesn't like that I am giving a struct as argument
(b) but I dont see why not
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00:13 < dagle> goplexian: So you have an array pointer?
00:13 < dagle> Or a slize?
00:14 < goplexian> O
00:14 < goplexian> I'll show you some code one sec
00:15 < goplexian> dagle: this is an example of what I'm trying to do but it
gives me the exact same error http://pastebin.ca/1742080
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00:21 < goplexian> ah nevermind
00:22 < quag> found it
00:22 < quag> ?
00:23 < goplexian> not sure
00:23 < quag> oh, here is the error
00:23 < quag> os.File.WriteAt: func (file *File) WriteAt(b []byte, off
int64) (n int, err Error)
00:23 < quag> It takes a []byte, not a Writer
00:23 < goplexian> but I think file.WriteAt(x.xbb.Bytes(), int(b))
00:23 < dagle> goplexian: Chaning to x.xbb.Bytes() seems to work.
00:24 < dagle> :)
00:24 < quag> dagle: The pasted code had:
00:24 < quag> /*error*/ file.WriteAt(x, int64(b))
00:24 < goplexian> yeah, for some reason I thought having a writer gave the
function special magical powers
00:25 < quag> heh, I'm still trying to get my head around some of the type
stuff...
00:26 < dagle> goplexian: Nope.  A writer writes a number of bites to
something.
00:26 < quag> just got very confused with a type sha []byte, that didn't
work as I expected with a custom String()
00:26 < dagle> Can be a file, the internet, xml, whatever.
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00:27 < goplexian> dagle: yeah, not sure why that confused me, but I got it
now :)
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00:30 < dagle> goplexian: My I ask why you make type X a strukt and just not
a type?
00:31 < goplexian> no reason
00:31 < dagle> Oki.
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00:38 < quag> crazy...  not sure what I was doing wrong before, but the type
Sha byte[] is working now
00:38 < quag> yay
00:39 < goplexian> dagle: I guess I just find it more convienient,
bytes.Buffer has quite a few methods, and if I made X into a type of bytes.Buffer
instead of a struct with a byte.Buffer field then I'd have to manually redefine
them, its just easier to keep bytes.Buffer a field
00:41 < goplexian> like, `type X bytes.Buffer` then x.Len() would not work
unless I defined it, but x.xbb.Len() works without me having to do anything
00:41 < goplexian> I could be wrong, or maybe I'm just not doing it right
00:45 < goplexian> I love Go's newness, its a joy to try to figure these
things out
00:47 < dagle> Hmmm.  But x.Write([]bytes) works but not Len() ...  Hmmm.
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00:58 < goplexian> danit, bit by the stupid | bitwise again
00:58 < goplexian> to append you have to do this: `file, err :=
os.Open(location, os.O_WRONLY|os.O_APPEND, 0666)`
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00:59 < goplexian> os.O_APPEND by itself isn't enough
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01:02 < goplexian> I really wish that was a bug that would someday be fixed
but apparently it is working as intended
01:04 < skelterjohn> goplexian: just got in - what are you referring to?
01:06 < goplexian> skelterjohn: nothing significant, I was just trying to
append a file and discovered os.O_APPEND is not enough it must be
os.O_WRONLY|os.O_APPEND
01:07 < skelterjohn> that one caught me at first too
01:07 < rando> I have to say I'm with goplexian I would expect append to
include write...
01:07 < skelterjohn> i think O_WRITE rather than O_WRONLY might be more
appropriate
01:07 < goplexian> I understand the bitwise thing, I think wish it wasn't
01:07 < goplexian> s/think/wish/
01:08 < skelterjohn> const O_WRAPPEND = os.O_WRONLY|os.O_APPEND
01:08 < skelterjohn> :)
01:08 < goplexian> yea yea :P
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01:09 < goplexian> its not just intuitive I think, i've been bitten by it
twice now and I'm sure others who dont come from a heavy C backround will as well
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01:09 < goplexian> the reason it is this way is because apparently in C this
is a common idiom
01:10 < goplexian> so if you came from C you'd actually asume that it works
this way, but if you come from anywhere else you're likely to be baffled
01:10 < skelterjohn> seems like a reasonable issue to file
01:11 < skelterjohn> to maybe add the O_WRAPPEND constant to the os package
01:12 < goplexian> then they would need to add one for create, to create a
file you must do os.O_WRONLY|os.O_CREATE
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01:16 < skelterjohn> yes
01:16 < skelterjohn> there are a bunch of common combinations that could be
nicely combined into single constants
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01:17 < goplexian> every language has a wart or two
01:19 < goplexian> for new people though I think it would be a good idea to
get a combined const in there, but its not that big of a deal, at the very least
though they should add that info to the docs
01:19 < goplexian> a few examples of how to open a file for appending, or
creating
01:21 < skelterjohn> i think you're probably right about that.
01:21 < skelterjohn> documentation, rather than library kruft, should be
used to ease transitions
01:21 < goplexian> agreed
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01:22 < rando> That would work for me...  I'm relearning C after 20 years
(needed for the job), not so much fun after working in other langs...
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01:23 < rando> that's why I'm excited about go.  So making things easier for
anyone (don't assume a background) is the best way to go IMHO.
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01:30 < goplexian> and to create a file, but *only* if the file does not
exist os.O_CREATE|os.O_WRONLY|os.O_EXCL
01:31 < goplexian> this will also create a new file but overwrites the old
file if it exists os.O_CREATE|os.O_WRONLY
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01:33 < dagle> I kinda hate C in a way and at the same time love it.
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01:34 < goplexian> it strikes me as reasonable once you understand it, and I
dont pretend to understand it
01:34 < dagle> Much depending on the user.
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03:02 < jackman> is there a go equivalent to the c++ substr()?
03:02 < jackman> I have a string; I want to cut off the tail.
03:03 < jackman> or can i create a reader that excludes the delimiter?
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03:07 < Olathe> jackman: a := "hello"; b := a[0:3]; fmt.Printf("%s %s\n", a,
b) // "hello hel\n"
03:08 < jackman> Olathe: Thanks.  Is this behavior documented?
03:08 < Olathe> It should be documented somewhere as slices.
03:08 < Olathe> I'm not sure where, sorry.
03:09 < jackman> no problem.
03:09 < jackman> I'm just trying to satisfy the universal imperative: RTFM.
:)
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03:09 < Olathe> Ahh :)
03:12 < jackman> that works.  :)
03:12 < Olathe> Cool
03:13 < jackman> I'm assuming len(s string) string is a part of the string
library?
03:13 < jackman> I saw it somewhere...  I just don't know where.
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03:13 < jackman> nm
03:14 < jackman> it works.  that's all i care atm.
03:14 < jackman> :)
03:14 < Olathe> Oh, I'm too new to know that :)
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03:14 <+iant> len is a predeclared function in the language
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03:29 < jackman> iant: ah.
03:33 < goplexian> iant: so what do you think the compromise will be for
generics?  You didnt give you opinion in that article.
03:35 <+iant> goplexian: I don't know what it will be
03:35 <+iant> we're still talking about it
03:36 < goplexian> yeah thats kind of what I figured, but are you permitted
to discuss what your opinions are about it?
03:37 <+iant> my personal opinions?  I lean toward a C++ style approach, in
which instantiations are stored back with the package defining the generic, so
that on average specific instantiations only need to be compiled once
03:37 <+iant> that is, a C++ approach, plus storing instantiations with the
package
03:38 < goplexian> so I dont know much about generics, but that sounds like
it would slow compiling down a bit
03:38 <+iant> yes, it would
03:39 < goplexian> I think thats a pretty resonable place to put the burden
03:40 < goplexian> its an art of war approach, take the hit where you are
strongest
03:40 <+iant> ha ha
03:40 < goplexian> iant: thanks for being open, I look forward to how its
all going to work out
03:41 < jA_cOp> D does generics like that
03:41 < jA_cOp> it still has amazing compile times
03:41 < jA_cOp> I don't think it will be that much of a hit
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03:47 < rah_> no more golispian?  :)
03:47 < goplexian> hehe
03:47 < goplexian> I only have so many hours
03:47 < rah_> true, true
03:48 < goplexian> I'd love to devote more time to lisp though, I use Emacs
pretty exclusively for editing so the more elisp you know the more powerful it
becomes
03:48 < rah_> ditto, i keep meaning to learn lisp
03:49 < rah_> some day :)
03:50 < goplexian> its a bit of a mind bender
03:50 < skelterjohn> as learning curves go, lisp is pretty quick to pick up
imo
03:52 < rah_> i started into it..  i forget what threw me off
03:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TitT by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/time/ -- Add
a parser to the time package, the inverse of time.Format
03:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5Tiui by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/http/ --
http: most of a URL shouldn't use URL-escaping
03:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TiuN by [Russ Cox] in go/lib/codereview/ --
codereview: repeated hg mail sends "PTAL"
03:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5Tivc by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- add
doc/devel/index.html, linked from nav bar
03:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TivC by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/misc/dashboard/ -- Add builder scripts.
03:53 < rah_> what is that?
03:53 < goplexian> those are commits to the Go source
03:53 < rah_> aha
03:53 < rah_> thanks
03:53 < goplexian> plexdev echo's them to the channel
03:54 <+iant> he is very patient
03:54 <+iant> we have a dashboard running at http://godashboard.appspot.com
now
03:54 < rah_> neat
03:54 < goplexian> hmm interesting
03:55 < tav> ah, sorry guys, some commits got stuck in plexdev's queue
03:55 < rah_> oops, missed your comment, skelterjohn...  i will have to give
it another shot someday to learn
03:55 < rah_> i was thinking, man is that some fast coding going on
03:55 < tav> hehe
03:56 < skelterjohn> well, with hg, you can commit a number of changes and
then push them all at once
03:57 < goplexian> same for git
03:57 < rah_> that is interesting
03:57 < rah_> i'm still used to svn...  git's another thing i keep meaning
to learn
03:57 < rah_> and hg
03:57 < rah_> speaking of learning languages..  anyone mind if i pick their
brain on select vs switch?
03:57 < tav> rah_: here's an article for you
http://www.espians.com/getting-started-with-git.html ;p
03:58 < adiabatic> rah_: You really ought to try one of these newfangled
distributed jobbies.  They're a marked improvement, even if it's just one person
with a central repo
03:58 < rah_> tav: thanks :)
03:59 < rah_> adiabetic: yeah, i'm stuck in the past, i still feel like svn
is the new kid on the block, heh :) i will try to give it a shot
04:00 < rah_> tav: haha, just noticed you wrote this
04:00 < tav> <g>
04:00 < rah_> taking first steps into the future...  signing up for github
04:00 < tav> woo!!
04:01 < rah_> wow, that was easy to sign up
04:02 < tav> the real fun is how it makes collaboration super easy
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04:02 < rah_> is select just like a switch that evaluates askdddddlk
04:02 < rah_> argh
04:02 < rah_> cat on the keyboard
04:02 < rah_> sorry
04:02 < goplexian> haha sok
04:02 < rah_> ...that evaluates all its conditions?
04:03 < skelterjohn> no, not really
04:03 < skelterjohn> the first of its conditions that can be evaluated is
04:03 < skelterjohn> the others are not
04:04 < rah_> so it's like a switch that chooses the first responder?
04:04 < skelterjohn> sure
04:04 < rah_> ah, okay.
04:04 < rah_> thank you :)
04:04 < rah_> that finally makes sense now
04:12 < skelterjohn> glad i could help :)
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04:22 < runningwild> The latest release says that 6prof works on i386 now,
but I've been unable to get it to work on darwin.  I run '6prof -p 724 ./6.out',
for example, and get 'prof: can't find threads for pid 724'
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04:22 < runningwild> Am I doing something wrong, or does it just not work on
darwin yet?
04:25 < goplexian> darwin is MacOS right?  I didnt know macs ran on 32bit
cpu's
04:26 < skelterjohn> more relevant, 6.out is compiled for 64 bit
04:26 < rah_> they do 32 and 64 bit
04:26 < runningwild> oh, no, good point, i'm on a 64 bit machine :-P
04:26 < skelterjohn> so if you are on a 386 machine, you want 8prof
04:27 < runningwild> so i have goarch = amd64, should 6prof work?
04:28 < goplexian> 6prof is for amd64, but it may just not work yet
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05:00 < NickPresta> I've already searched the Issue List and Common Problems
page and I haven't seen any mention of this problem I'm having.  When I compile
with `make -j 4 all`, compilation fails at the hgpatch stage.  Without `-j 4`, it
works as expected.  Should I expect this to work?
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05:06 < NickPresta> And now it's working.  Hmm.  Disregard my previous
message.  :-)
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05:23 < skelterjohn> NickPresta: gremlins
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05:24 < NickPresta> skelterjohn: indeed.  I am building with Hudson so it
may have been a rare issue on that end.  *shrug*
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05:28 < goplexian> bbl
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06:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TFPs by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/template/ --
Rewrite tokenizer to clean up and fix a bug with spaces before delimited block.
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06:55 < trevor> I was looking into how the rpc package works and hit a snag.
I'm looking at this line http://golang.org/src/pkg/rpc/client.go#L57 and can't
figure out where Request is defined
06:55 < trevor> Err, I just figured it out, heh
06:56 < trevor> I forgot that a file can see other exports automatically if
it has the same package line
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06:59 < SoniaKeys> it's fun to learn a new language.  at the moment i'm
loving goto.
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07:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TJAd by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
bug241
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07:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TLB7 by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
bug219, bug239, bug240
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08:09 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5TPEK by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
bug238
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08:20 < jdp> is it now a requirement that else statements be on the same
line as the matching if's closing brace?
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08:34 < bortzmeyer> It seems so, otherwise I get a syntax error :-(
08:35 < jackman> afaik
08:35 < jackman> i fought the law
08:35 < jackman> but the law won.  :(
08:36 < jdp> that's strange, i think that's something gofmt should take care
of, and let the programmer use his own style
08:36 < jackman> i still like the language.  the syntax changes aren't
enough to make me look the other way.  :)
08:36 < jdp> i just updated go and ran a make on a project and got an
intimidating number of syntax errors
08:36 < jdp> at least they're all the same error :p
08:37 < jackman> ya
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08:37 < jackman> i don't think they've updated the emacs stuff yet
08:37 < jackman> i still run gofmt -oldprinter=true so that emacs can do its
job
08:38 < jackman> i just wrote it all into the makefiles
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08:41 < bortzmeyer> Yes, I was very surprised and shocked when gofmt
suddenly suppressed all my semicolons :-( Very bad idea.
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08:41 < bortzmeyer> And, yes, I confirm, the Emacs mode is now broken :-(
08:42 < jackman> it's forcing me to take advantage of makefiles
08:42 < jackman> now more than ever
08:42 < jackman> i like the additional advantage of emacs' automation
08:43 < rauli> emacs is fascism
08:43 < bortzmeyer> No, vi is Bad
08:43 < jackman> ya?  well you're fascim!
08:44 < jackman> :P
08:52 < madmoose> nano rules all woohoo!
08:55 < bortzmeyer> But we all agree that the sudden mandatory syntax change
was a bad idea!
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09:07 < jackman> here!  here!
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09:29 < ShadowIce> bortzmeyer: the latest tip has updated files for emacs...
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09:48 < zeroXten> anywhere i could find some good doc on creating a map of
splices?
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09:48 < zeroXten> -p
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09:49 < zeroXten> nevermind...  i think i can work it out
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10:14 < bortzmeyer> ShadowIce: thanks, the new emacs mode works
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10:24 < smartmobili> hi
10:25 < smartmobili> I wanted to know if there is some kind of runtime info
proposing same functionalities found in objective-C
10:25 < smartmobili> I am especially interested in delegates in Objective-C
because this is what is used in macos/iphone frameworks
10:25 < smartmobili> and I would like to keep the same architecture
10:26 < smartmobili> is it possible to instantiate an object for instance
implementing a specific interface ?
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10:32 < rog> interfaces are a lot of what go is about
10:33 < rog> it's nicer than objective C in that respect, IMHO
10:33 < rog> smartmobil: ^^
10:34 < rog> instead of delegates, in go it's often better to use a channel
10:35 < smartmobili> is there any sample code showing this ?
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10:47 < dagle> smartmobili: Hmmm.  Not to used Objective-C, could you give
an example?
10:48 < smartmobili> ok for instance, when developing an Iphone app the
second line is
10:48 < smartmobili> int retVal = UIApplicationMain(argc, argv, nil, nil);
10:49 < smartmobili> and UIApplicationMain will search at runtime among all
the object implementing an interface called UIApplicationDelegate
10:49 < smartmobili> and it will call some methods of this interface
10:50 < dagle> So you don't need to pass it an object of that type?
10:50 < smartmobili> yes it will be found at runtime
10:50 < dagle> Ok.
10:50 < dagle> Well go has no object or classes to start with.
10:50 < dagle> objects*
10:50 < smartmobili> ok
10:51 < smartmobili> from doc : Interfaces in Go provide a way to specify
the behavior of an object
10:51 < smartmobili> so it's talking about object, isn't it
10:52 < dagle> Well yeah but not and OO object.
10:52 < smartmobili> ok so go is just a refactored C
10:52 < dagle> Not really.
10:52 < smartmobili> why some syntaxic sugar to start some thread
10:53 < smartmobili> and with a garbage collector
10:53 < dagle> Go is more like binding functions to structs and add
interfaces so you get a more type safe system.
10:53 < dagle> You mean go routines?
10:53 < smartmobili> yes
10:55 < rog> smartmobili: there's no global object namespace in the same way
that you descibe for UIApplicationMain, but that's a good thing
10:56 < dagle> You would it to be a function instead?
10:56 < dagle> go(function) ?
10:56 < dagle> Instead of go function ?
10:56 < rog> smartmobili: but given an interface object, it's possible to
test if it satisfies a given interface, e.g.  UIApplicationDelegate
10:57 < rog> smartmobili: an object is defined to implement an interface
type if it implements all the methods of that type (with the correct types)
10:57 < smartmobili> ok
10:57 < rog> read the intro, and the specification; they're quite readable
10:57 < smartmobili> ok thanks
11:02 < zeroXten> my brain hurts
11:03 < zeroXten> i'm starting to miss perl
11:05 < rog> perl is a true brain-hurting language
11:06 < zeroXten> uhh.  the other way around :) i know what i want to do if
it was perl, but translating it into something low level in go is proving to be
beyond my hangovered mind
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11:07 < rog> what're you trying to do?
11:08 < zeroXten> well, i've got a HTTP server thing running nicely
11:09 < zeroXten> now, lets say I want to count the number of times a ip has
connected
11:09 < bortzmeyer> A global counter?
11:10 < bortzmeyer> Do you want it to survive restarts of the HTTP server?
11:11 < zeroXten> na
11:11 < zeroXten> just whilst running
11:11 < zeroXten> so i would use channels to update this global counter
11:12 < zeroXten> some interesting data could be collected like (perl)
$h_counter->{$ip}->{$url}++
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11:13 < zeroXten> actually, i think i would like a hash of arrays (the hash
key being the ip and array of strings containing urls seen for that ip)
11:15 < zeroXten> vectors best for this?
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11:27 < rog> a straightforward way to do this is to have a global channel
down which you send the ip addr and the url.  then start a goroutine that reads
from the channel and updates a data structure accordingly (e.g.
counter[ip][url]++)
11:27 < rog> where counter is defined as counter :=
make(map[string]map[string]int)
11:28 < zeroXten> hmmm
11:28 < rog> actually it would be marginally more complex than that as you'd
have to initialise the map for a given ip address the first time
11:28 < zeroXten> do i have to specify len and capacity?
11:28 < rog> nope
11:29 < rog> only arrays have a capacity
11:29 < rog> and with maps the len is optional
11:29 < zeroXten> hmm
11:29 < zeroXten> at the moment i have a basic program to just build an
example data structure
11:30 < zeroXten> let me give that a go :)
11:35 < zeroXten> rog: how do you mean initialize the map?  something like
counter[ip] := something(url)?
11:35 < rog> one mo, i'll post some sample code
11:35 < zeroXten> :)
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11:42 < rog> zeroXten: http://gopaste.org/view/06Bs5
11:43 < rog> (i haven't tested it at all)
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11:45 < zeroXten> cheers rog, taking a look now
11:46 < rog> alternatively you could just guard stats with a Mutex.Lock and
update the statistics with a straightforward function
11:46 < zeroXten> naa :)
11:54 < happy> Can someone explain the array slice capacity thing to me?
Will the language keep adding space until as I need more space?
11:55 < happy> and is slice[len(slice)+1] = x allowed?
11:56 < happy> then again...  I would not need the +1...
11:56 < happy> and is slice[len(slice)] = x allowed?
11:58 < jhh> you'd have to do slice=slice[0:len(slice)+1] first
11:58 < jhh> see the appendSlice example (in effective go i think)
11:59 < happy> ok
12:00 < zeroXten> rog: if the stats var is defined in main, is it global and
accessible from within registry?
12:01 < rog> in the main package do you mean?  or the main function?
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12:02 < zeroXten> ahh..  duhh...  nevermind ;)
12:15 < happy> jhh does [-1] work as an index for the last element of a
slice?
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12:30 < zeroXten> rog: interestingly, it seems to coredump at m[s.url] = 1
12:30 < zeroXten> ++
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12:32 < zeroXten> should i initialize that map in the same way?
12:45 < rog> sorry - you can't increment a value that doesn't already exist
12:45 < rog> this should work better: http://gopaste.org/view/6fCJy
12:54 < zeroXten> thanks.  looking now
12:55 < zeroXten> perfect :) thanks for all your help \o/
13:01 < rog> np
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13:27 < vegai> http://www.getwebgo.com/ seems nice
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13:32 < dho> hoisie works on it; he's here from time to time
13:32 < dagle> Looks really nice.  :)
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14:26 < rog> i hate it when turning on debug printing causes the error to go
away
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14:31 < rog> and when the error doesn't give a stack trace
14:31 < rog> bizarre behaviour
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14:44 < jhh> happy: I don't think so
14:45 < jhh> rog: that's called "Heisenbug"
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15:14 < zeroXten> heh jhh
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15:32 < rog> i want a way automatically building a package's dependencies
before building a package.  i think i'm getting bugs from forgetting to do things
in the right order
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15:33 < jhh> rog: I'm on that one.
15:33 < rog> at least that's the only thing i can think of currently
15:33 < zeroXten> hmmm, quick question about http package.  If the requested
url doesn't match the handle pattern string the server returns a 404..  is there
anyway of changing that and doing something else instead?
15:35 < rog> jhh: how are you going to do it?
15:35 < happy_> zeroXten: changing the code always works.  I do not know of
a better way?
15:35 < zeroXten> happy_: you mean changing http code itself?
15:36 < happy_> zeroXten: yeah, I do not know how else you would do it
15:36 < zeroXten> ohh...  so its not supported huh...  hmmm
15:36 < jhh> rog: Scanning for dependencies, building a dependency graph,
compile in the right order.  Works for small projects already.  But we're working
on getting that done for the go src tree.
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15:39 < rog> the important thing to me is that i should be able to type
"make" (or whatever) in one of the project's subdirectories, and it should build
only what it needs to for the local stuff
15:40 < jhh> that needs configuring then, but we want to do that
15:40 < jhh> i mean the tools needs to know where the 'root' is
15:42 < rog> that's fine.
15:42 < rog> BTW, is there any way of stopping a go program in an infinite
loop and finding out where it is?
15:43 < rog> also, does anyone know why i might be getting an error like
this:
15:44 < rog> SIGBUS: bus error
15:44 < rog> Faulting address: 0x0
15:44 < rog> pc: 0x328434
15:44 < usa> rog, there is a lot of stuff out there that might help.
sparkbuild.com has a closed source but free program that claims to be able to do
this.  (You do a full build once and it records what is needed).
15:44 < rog> 0x328434 unknown pc
15:45 < rog> it shouldn't be hard with go - currently the makefiles record
the dependencies, but if it was done in a more structured way, then it'd be easy
15:45 < rog> (i think!)
15:45 < rog> note with the error above, i got no stack trace
15:46 < rog> and adding some prints makes the program work ok
15:47 < usa> I like "nmake" (The AT&T program, not the Microsoft thing that
took the name but almost none of the ideas).  I am looking to see if the scanner
inside nmake can handle go code.
15:50 < jhh> rog: what do you mean with more structured dependencies?
15:50 < rog> just that the dependencies aren'
15:50 < rog> oops
15:51 < rog> aren't currently derivable automatically from the makefile
15:51 < rog> and the go source itself isn't sufficient
15:52 < fgb> isn't there no type check when linking?
15:53 < jhh> most of the cases go source would be sufficient, but there are
a lot of cases in the go src where you need buildfiles, but russ wants something
more sensible than makefiles
15:53 < fgb> I mean like 8c -T
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15:54 < usa> jhh, can you explain more?
15:54 < jhh> usa: about what?
15:55 < usa> About Russ wanting something more sensible than Makefiles
15:55 < rog> fgb: i don't know.  i'm not entirely sure.
15:56 < rog> makefiles generally only cover one directory.
15:57 < rog> fgb: actually, even type safe linking doesn't help here.
15:57 < jhh> makefiles cannot really use dependencies across different make
files, they have a bad way of specifying sources and a medicore way of specifying
how things should be done
15:58 < usa> rog, there is the very good auug paper "Recursive make
considered harmful" that is widely quoted.
15:58 < fgb> rog,..
15:59 < zeroXten> happy_: good call.  5 lines of hack and I can register a
placement default handler ;)
15:59 < rog> fgb: because if i change package A and then make a package C
that depends on B that depends on A, then i want C to be rebuilt even though
nothing it directly depends on has changed
15:59 < usa> jhh, nmake handles some of these issues, some directly and some
by asking users to stick to conventions.
16:00 < jhh> usa: how do i find the nmake you mean?
16:01 < usa> jhh, It is part of the AST software (open source) from
http://www.research.att.com/sw/download
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16:02 < usa> Glen Fowler wrote it and maintains it, This kit also includes
the "real" ksh from David Korn.
16:04 < usa> ls
16:06 < jhh> usa: is there a proper documentation?
16:11 < fgb> rog, but it shouldn't crash right, I mean, you'd just get the
old version of A
16:16 < usa> jhh, there is *lots* of documentation for a slightly older
version.  In the AT&T/Lucent split the documentation writter went to Lucent,
whilst the research people stayed with AT&T.
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16:18 < usa> http://www.bell-labs.com/project/nmake/release/11.html is the
latest "lucent" version with links to the user guide and reference manual
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16:24 < rog> fgb: true.  i don't know if the linking is currently typesafe
or not
16:26 < jhh> usa: thanks!
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16:28 < fgb> that sort of thing tend to happen when you modify the structs
adding or removing a field and not rebuilding can screw you
16:29 < fgb> s/tend/&s/
16:32 < rog> it checks first order type safety.  but i'm not sure what
happens if i've got this kind of thing: A: (B, C); B: D; C: D; and i change the
types in D and rebuild C, but don't rebuild B; then i rebuild A. which version of
D do i get?  or do i get an error?
16:34 < fgb> well, you changed the types, if the compiler doesn't catch is
going to crash
16:34 < fgb> s/compiler/loader/...
16:37 < rog> yup
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16:38 < rog> i hope it catches it, but it may not
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16:48 < zeroXten> whats the best way of reading all the data from an
io.ReadCloser into a []byte array?
16:48 < zeroXten> or slice, or whatever it is ;)
16:49 < jhh> zeroXten: http://golang.org/pkg/io/ioutil/#ReadAll
16:50 < zeroXten> aahh.  its in ioutil..  i've been looking at just io =(
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16:51 < zeroXten> thanks jhh
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16:56 < rog> hmm, must be a compiler bug....  but how to narrow it down?!
16:58 < skelterjohn> morning
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17:09 < rog> is there a way of finding out the pc address of a particular
line of code?
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17:19 * rog can never remember how to use gdb
17:21 < rog> in particular, can anyone remember how to get it to print the
current assembly instruction when stepping?
17:21 < zeroXten> rog, an ok gdb gui is Insight
17:22 < zeroXten> i quite like it, but the asm stepping key (S) doesn't seem
to work so you have to click the button ;)
17:23 < rog> it's ok, i found it: x/i $pc
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17:24 < rog> i'm fine with command line - it's just that gdb is wilfully
obscure, and it's very difficult to navigate the help...
17:24 < zeroXten> yeah
17:24 < zeroXten> but you have to run that inbetween steps dont you?
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17:27 < rog> yes - i can't remember how to change the default prompt
17:27 < rog> i'll just do it manually for now
17:28 < zeroXten> ah heh
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17:31 < rog> bugger.  it works when i run in under gdb.
17:32 < rog> wtf do i do now?
17:32 < kfx> always run it under gdb.  problem solved forever!
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17:32 < rog> yeah, or call a null function in the right place.  that also
fixes it.
17:34 < rog> it's most frustrating though - i can reproduce it perfectly...
but can't inspect it.  the perfect heisenbug.
17:35 < rog> and i'm not using any concurrency either.
17:36 < skelterjohn> this kind of thing happened in C a lot, and would vary
with the OS. something to do with the way memory is aligned
17:36 < skelterjohn> ideally, this would never happen with go
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17:36 < skelterjohn> it's worth digging deeper or making an issue
17:37 < rog> i agree
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17:37 < rog> the problem that i'm rather diverged from the main tree
currently, and it's difficult to cut down the code
17:47 < rog> would anyone here be willing to run my binary and see whether
it crashes for them (it's a macos binary).  it doesn't do anything dodgy, honest!
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17:50 < sobersabre> hi.
17:50 < sobersabre> is there any IDE support planned and implemented now for
Go ?
17:50 < skelterjohn> there is some xcode support
17:51 < skelterjohn> someone wrote up stuff about how to use gedit
17:51 < sobersabre> anything else, like eclipse/netbeans ?
17:51 < skelterjohn> in general, i don't think IDE stuff will come from the
core team
17:51 < skelterjohn> eclipse and netbeans are not the right solution for go,
in my opinion
17:51 < sobersabre> why so ?
17:52 < skelterjohn> big, bloated, slow
17:52 < kfx> also: aimed at java
17:52 < skelterjohn> they provide infrastructure for the massive amount of
boilerplating that java requires
17:52 < skelterjohn> go doesn't have the same issues
17:53 < sobersabre> I don't understand some of this term - "boilerplating"
17:53 < sobersabre> bloating is when one wants to develop for many languages
in 1 IDE.
17:53 < skelterjohn> boilerplating refers to the need to put lots of syntax
"structure" to do some simple things
17:54 < skelterjohn> setters, getters, constructors from fields, etc
17:54 < sobersabre> are you talking about "preparsing" of the code as you
type ?
17:54 < skelterjohn> no
17:54 < sobersabre> oh, that one...
17:54 < sobersabre> ok.  I start understanding.
17:54 < skelterjohn> i'm talking about the "generate code" section of
eclipse's menus
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17:55 < sobersabre> so, why wouldn't such standard constructs be helpful for
a go-coder ?
17:55 < skelterjohn> because go doesn't require that code :)
17:56 < sobersabre> C++/Java doesn't require it either, AFAIK.  simply some
things are common, so they're added to the IDE.
17:56 < skelterjohn> in go, for instance, a := TheType{field1, field2,
field3}
17:56 < skelterjohn> constructors from fields are implicit
17:58 < skelterjohn> also, every language has its own aesthetic
17:58 < skelterjohn> go's involves being streamlined and lightweight
17:59 < skelterjohn> java has different needs and purposes, and it's
reflected in the IDEs
17:59 < sobersabre> skelterjohn: I don't believe there are no repeating
"paragraphs" that one may want to auto-generate.
18:00 < skelterjohn> sure, but it's much less
18:00 < skelterjohn> the only thing that comes to mind is casting of
numerical variables
18:00 < sobersabre> this means when go module would be loaded less resources
would be used by the IDE.
18:00 < skelterjohn> but if every IDE has these auto-code features, then it
seems more straightforward to just make that part of the language, no?
18:01 < skelterjohn> for instance, objective C has synthesized variables
instead of getters and setters
18:02 < skelterjohn> i'm sure someone will make a go plugin for eclipse at
some point
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18:45 < rog> i love gdb
18:45 < rog> (gdb) stepi 1000
18:45 < rog> warning: Got an error handling event: "assertion failure on
line 186 of "/SourceCache/gdb/gdb-962/src/gdb/macosx/macosx-nat-inferior-util.c"
in function "macosx_inferior_check_stopped": (s->stopped_in_ptrace == 1) ||
(s->stopped_in_softexc == 1) || (s->suspend_count > 0)
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19:46 < rog> definitely memory corruption somewhere
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20:26 < uriel> sobersabre: see http://go-lang.cat-v.org/text-editors/
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20:32 < jhh> those textmate grammars suck by the way
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20:45 < happy_> does go have gettext?
20:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5VwJX by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- fix typo
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20:58 < skelterjohn> happy_: the only gettext I see turning up in man pages
is something about automatic translation.  Doesn't seem like something that would
go in a core library
20:58 < skelterjohn> maybe you mean something to read a line from a file?
(bufio package)
20:58 < happy_> skelterjohn: that sounds right
20:59 < happy_> automatic translation?
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21:00 < skelterjohn> for looking up versions of certain messages in other
languages
21:00 < skelterjohn> "File not found" in 30 different languages, etc
21:00 < happy_> where are you looking?
21:00 < skelterjohn> i ran "man gettext"
21:00 < skelterjohn> on a linux machine
21:00 < happy_> lol
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21:01 < happy_> I guess I need to look at how to use C libraries
21:02 < skelterjohn> what do you want to do?
21:02 < happy_> I am just playing
21:03 < skelterjohn> what causes you to need C libraries, is what i meant
21:03 < happy_> oh
21:03 < happy_> gettext allows you to translate into many languages
21:04 < skelterjohn> oh you really did want the translation function.  from
what you said i thought you wanted something else that happened to have the same
name
21:04 < happy_> oh, sorry
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21:14 < ni|> can matlab be installed on amd64 9.0/
21:15 < ni|> sorry wrong channel
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21:22 < rog> is there any documentation on go's calling conventions
anywhere?
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21:47 <+iant> rog: I don't think there is any docs yet, but for 6g/8g it is
very simple: all arguments are pushed on the stack
21:47 <+iant> gccgo just uses the usual calling convention for the system
21:49 < KirkMcDonald> And the receiver just acts as the first argument?
21:49 <+iant> yes
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22:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5VIhS by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: special cases for Atan, Asin and Acos
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 09 00:00:45 2010