--- Log opened Sun Jan 10 00:00:05 2010
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01:46 < goplexian> goodevening
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01:49 < CodeBlock> hi
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02:24 < trevor> I don't understand the Makefile language, so could someone
explain to me how to build a package
02:24 < trevor> I tried 6a file.s but I get errors
02:25 < trevor> game.6:2 syntax error, last name: amd64
02:26 < trevor> Thats from 6g game.go; 6a game.6
02:31 < KirkMcDonald> make is easy.
02:32 < trevor> looks rather cryptic to me
02:32 < KirkMcDonald> target: dependencies
02:32 < KirkMcDonald> Followed by commands.
02:32 < KirkMcDonald> Then there's all the macro/variable stuff.
02:32 < crimson_penguin> there's so many different ways to do things with
make
02:33 < crimson_penguin> anyway, it's not actually related to Go itself -
just search for a make tutorial
02:33 < KirkMcDonald> But once you get the basic target/dependency thing,
the rest follows fairly naturally.
02:33 < trevor> I'm not actually interested in make, I just want to know how
to build and link to a custom pkg
02:34 < KirkMcDonald> Well.  The easiest way is to write a Makefile.  :-)
02:34 < trevor> Not if I don't know the commands to begin with
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02:35 < KirkMcDonald> Actually, if you use the Make.pkg stuff, you don't
even need to know the specific commands.  (Though it is still good to know the
commands.)
02:35 < trevor> Say I have a pkg src, pkg.go and a program src main.go
02:35 < trevor> main.go imports "./pkg"
02:35 < trevor> How can I build and link these?
02:35 < KirkMcDonald> 6g -o pkg.6 pkg.go; 6g -I.  -o main.6 main.go; 6l -L .
-o main main.6
02:35 < KirkMcDonald> Something...  like that.
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02:39 < KirkMcDonald> trevor: Or just write a Makefile using Make.cmd.  See
src/cmd/cgo/Makefile for an example.
02:39 < trevor> I guess I'll try that because what you gave me isn't working
:)
02:40 < KirkMcDonald> trevor: What is the error message?
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02:40 < trevor> Well I am trying to import "./game" from main.go
02:41 < KirkMcDonald> The ./ should not be necessary.
02:42 < trevor> Cool, that seems to work now
02:42 < KirkMcDonald> You would actually need two Makefiles, I am thinking.
02:42 < KirkMcDonald> One for the package, one for the binary.
02:43 < trevor> I could have sworn I read somewhere that ./ was necessary to
import packages in a relative directory
02:43 < KirkMcDonald> trevor: This is what the -I.  in that one command is
for.
02:43 < KirkMcDonald> Adding the current directory to the package search
path.
02:43 < trevor> Sure, I understand now
02:43 < trevor> Thanks
02:45 < trevor> I'm just taking in too many things at once.  At first Go
only seems a little different, but once you start using it you releaize it is a
/lot/ different
02:45 < trevor> Different from traditional OO languages, that is
02:46 < KirkMcDonald> The interface mechanic lies somewhere in a weird
region between C++ or Java-style inheritance-based polymorphism and Python-style
duck-typing.
02:46 < KirkMcDonald> I like it.
02:47 < trevor> I've been coming up with designs for simple game engines
where each entity has its own goroutine and the main controller communicates with
each entity via channels
02:47 < KirkMcDonald> So the controller just keeps a big ol' collection of
channels...
02:48 < trevor> Basically, yeah
02:48 < trevor> I'm not sure how feasible it all is yet.  All those
goroutines sort of scares me right now
02:48 < trevor> But I'm going to try
02:49 < trevor> The fun part is that I'm using websockets to talk to safari
to do all the drawing in a canvas
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04:51 < trevor> So I set this http://paste.lisp.org/display/93193 makefile
up to build my program
04:51 < trevor> But I have custom packages in a pkg directory
04:51 < KirkMcDonald> Yes, you will need two makefiles.
04:51 < trevor> Is there an easy way to tell that makefile to include my
pkgs?
04:51 < KirkMcDonald> One for the package, one for the binary.
04:52 < trevor> I have a makefile for my packages
04:52 < KirkMcDonald> I see.
04:52 < trevor> The build just fine and put a *.a in _obj folder in each pkg
04:52 < trevor> they*
04:52 < trevor> Now how to tell my binary makefile to look for these?
04:52 < KirkMcDonald> One option is to 'make install' each of the packages.
04:53 < KirkMcDonald> This has the slight downside of cramming the packages
next to the standard library.
04:53 < trevor> Yeah, I'd rather not do that
04:53 < KirkMcDonald> Then (unfortunately) you need to get more creative.
04:54 * KirkMcDonald thinks about the best way to get more creative.
04:54 < trevor> Would be nice if the Makefile.cmd checked for a user
definable list of pkgs to include
04:55 < KirkMcDonald> I once submitted a ticket on a related subject:
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=347
04:55 < trevor> PKGS=pkg/game/_obj/game.a
04:55 < KirkMcDonald> This was before I discovered that Make.cmd existed, so
the BIN variable I suggest is not actually needed.
04:55 < KirkMcDonald> But the other ones are still useful.
04:56 < trevor> Yes, I see
04:56 < trevor> It seems the LD options would need to be on Make.cmd, right?
04:57 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.
04:57 < KirkMcDonald> I should update that patch, in fact.  Not least
because Make.pkg has changed since I submitted it...
04:58 < trevor> Well if your patch solves my problem I will definitely leave
a positive comment
04:59 < trevor> Looking inside Make.cmd give me a headache
04:59 < KirkMcDonald> heh
04:59 < trevor> Way too many symbols
04:59 < trevor> Very dense
04:59 < KirkMcDonald> Syntax highlighting helps.
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05:00 < KirkMcDonald> vim Make.cmd -c ":set ft=make"
05:00 < trevor> I did download gnu make's pdf manual, I plan on reading it
sometime
05:00 < trevor> It wasn't too long
05:00 < trevor> textmate user here
05:01 < KirkMcDonald> Make's basic mechanism is very simple.
05:01 < KirkMcDonald> target: dependencies
05:01 < trevor> Yeah, I read the intro chapter
05:02 < trevor> Simple enough, seems to get confusing in real world usage
05:02 < KirkMcDonald> The trick is that you can have variables/macros.
05:02 < KirkMcDonald> All that $(FOO) stuff.
05:04 < KirkMcDonald> And Make.pkg is much more complicated than Make.cmd.
05:04 < KirkMcDonald> Since there's all that cgo stuff in there.
05:05 < trevor> Yeah, I more or less understood Make.cmd
05:05 < trevor> Well doing make install for my pkgs work
05:05 < trevor> Just have to be careful not to use the same name as a
standard pkg
05:06 < KirkMcDonald> Indeed.
05:06 < Ycros> yeah, I've been doing make install for my own stuff
05:07 < KirkMcDonald> My plan is to do something creative with epkg.
05:07 < CodeBlock> How would I go about doing multi-dimensional arrays?  For
example, func test(a []string) string { ...  }, but I want a to be an array of
arrays instead of an array of strings.
05:07 < Ycros> epkg?
05:07 < KirkMcDonald> CodeBlock: You mean like [][]string ?
05:07 < trevor> I suppose the Makefile's aren't more sophisticated because
the Go guys want to build their own build/packaging tools
05:08 < trevor> Thats the implication I get from the Makefile section of
http://golang.org/doc/code.html anyways
05:08 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: alright, that's what I thought ;)
05:08 < Ycros> trevor: yeah, they're fine for now
05:08 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: thanks :)
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05:09 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: epkg is a lightweight packaging tool.
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05:10 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: For cramming lots of different things into a
common prefix, without having them step on each other too badly, and with the
ability to remove them.
05:10 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: never heard of it
05:10 < KirkMcDonald> It is very useful.
05:10 < KirkMcDonald> Mostly because it is almost totally brain-dead.
05:11 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: it's kind of like stow then?
05:11 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: Yes, I have heard this, but I've never used
stow.
05:11 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: doesn't look very maintained
05:11 < KirkMcDonald> Doesn't need to be, really.
05:12 < KirkMcDonald> It does one very simple thing, and it works.
05:13 < Ycros> mmk
05:13 < Ycros> so you want to use epkg for go libs/apps?
05:13 < Ycros> and go itself?
05:13 < KirkMcDonald> My thinking was, rather than installing third-party
packages directly next to the standard library, I could do so via epkg.
05:14 < Ycros> aye.  And then just rely on epkg to manage the link farm
05:14 < KirkMcDonald> Indeed.
05:16 < Ycros> an alternative would be messing with search paths during
compilation time
05:16 < KirkMcDonald> Both solutions are permitted with my patch.
05:17 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: gah, could you throw me a quick example of
putting two arrays in that (multidimensional) array?  Can't seem to figure the
syntax out (this is my second day in Go, so go easy :P)
05:17 < KirkMcDonald> The point being that Makefiles are permitted to be
totally ignorant of any such chicanery, but the user/sysadmin/whatever can play
these games to their heart's content.
05:18 < Ycros> to be useful we'd need an ability to register installed
dependencies, and to be able to specify required dependencies per project
05:18 < Ycros> ie.  pkg-config, ruby gems, python eggs, etc.
05:18 < KirkMcDonald> CodeBlock: var foo [][]string = [][]string{ []string{
"foo", "bar" }, []string{ "baz", "blah" } };
05:18 < CodeBlock> KirkMcDonald: you rock, thanks :)
05:19 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: Maybe.
05:19 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: I would not go this far.
05:20 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: Another way of doing it, which also has merit,
would be something analogous to Python's site-packages.
05:20 < KirkMcDonald> Just a flat directory into which third-party packages
may be shoved.
05:21 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: The key fact of both gems and eggs is that they
suck.
05:22 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: you should be able to say, "this project
requires this version of this project"
05:23 < KirkMcDonald> Ycros: And this is what rpms and debs and so forth are
for.
05:23 < KirkMcDonald> There are already waaaay too many packaging tools.
05:24 < KirkMcDonald> Less is really more, here.
05:24 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: not for development, or for many cases when I
need to rely on different versions of things that are in a particular
distribution's repositories
05:25 < Ycros> and it should be easy to package this stuff up by a distro,
because then they can base their dependencies off these dependencies
05:26 < Ycros> ie.  my python projects are generally deployable anywhere you
have a python interpreter.  They'll pull down and locally install any dependencies
that are missing, or the wrong version on the system.
05:26 < Ycros> at the same time, nothing's going to stop someone rolling
some debs/rpms for it, if they want to do that for their distro
05:26 < Ycros> but if they want cutting edge stuff, well then.
05:27 < KirkMcDonald> I am not a fan of the lowest-common-denominator build
solution attempting to be intelligent with regards to dependencies.
05:28 < KirkMcDonald> This is the primary reason I despise setuptools and
its ilk.
05:28 < Ycros> I do agree that things shouldn't be installed randomly across
the system though
05:29 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.  Or, even, all installed into once place.  :-)
05:29 < KirkMcDonald> s/once/one/
05:29 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: okay, but it's very nice for development, and
deployment (especially for internal apps)
05:29 < Ycros> that's why I like setuptools
05:29 < Ycros> I'm not going to sit there, and package up my dependencies
into debs so I can deploy them (though, one person I know does exactly this)
05:29 < Ycros> especially when some are specific revisions pulled out of
various repos, or cutting edge stuff
05:29 < KirkMcDonald> Heh.  My favorite deployment strategy is rsync + epkg.
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05:30 < Ycros> or sometimes old versions
05:30 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: right, and I can practically do that with my
projects, they're all self-contained to one directory
05:31 < Ycros> the ruby community has been drifting towards this too (at
least in the web space), merb has had gem freezing, and now it's going all into
rails too
05:32 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: note that I pretty much never do an
"easy_install" or "gem install" anything, I merely specify the dependencies for my
projects
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05:32 < Ycros> oh, and Haskell uses a similar system with hackage/cabal
05:33 < KirkMcDonald> Setuptools pet peeve: It doesn't like installing
packages to directories which are not on the Python module search path.
05:33 < KirkMcDonald> "Gee, Python won't be able to import it if you install
it there!" ERROR, DIE
05:33 < KirkMcDonald> No, dangit, I actually wanted to do that.
05:34 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: take a look at zc.buildout
05:34 < Ycros> and/or virtualenvs (everyone seems to be raving on about
virtualenvs, but honestly, zc.buildout is better)
05:37 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: seriously, how do you deal with dependencies at
the moment?
05:38 < KirkMcDonald> Depends.
05:38 < KirkMcDonald> But I am not above doing so manually.
05:40 < Ycros> yes, go on.  I mean, say you're developing on a project, and
new version X of project Y just came out, which turns out to implement a feature Z
that you need for your project - and obviously it's not packaged by your distro
05:40 < Ycros> what do you do?
05:40 < KirkMcDonald> I built it and jam it in /usr/local via epkg.
05:40 < KirkMcDonald> build*
05:41 < Ycros> fantastic, and how do you deploy/release that?  I bet you
write the dependencies needed in a README
05:41 < Ycros> what if
05:41 < KirkMcDonald> Depends on what kind of thing it is.
05:41 < Ycros> so, when you have two different versions of the same software
you need for different projects?
05:41 < Ycros> you use epkg to switch between each time you want to work on
the other project?
05:41 < KirkMcDonald> That would be insane.
05:42 < Ycros> I have been in that situation a few times
05:42 < Ycros> it's a non issue with python projects using zc.buildout
because all deps are managed locally per project, it's a non-issue with my haskell
projects, because they pull in the right version of deps at compile time
05:43 < KirkMcDonald> The more "interesting" case is C.
05:43 < Ycros> it also means I can throw the project on another machine, and
get it running quickly and easily
05:44 < KirkMcDonald> Go's lack of dynamic libraries eliminates that entire
class of, ah, interesting situation.
05:44 < Ycros> but yeah, it does break down at the language barrier
05:44 < Ycros> like, C deps for python modules
05:44 < Ycros> but thankfully C deps tend to be way more stable
05:44 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.
05:44 < KirkMcDonald> And backwards-compatible...  usually.
05:44 < Ycros> KirkMcDonald: yeah, but i think Go will get dynamic libraries
05:45 < Ycros> at some point
05:45 < KirkMcDonald> Perhaps.
05:45 < Ycros> it probably doesn't have them at the moment simply because
it's an experimental language and not finished yet
05:45 < Ycros> I'd like to be able to dynamically load/reload code at some
point
05:45 < KirkMcDonald> There is a lot to like about static everything.
05:45 < KirkMcDonald> Build binary -> deploy binary
05:46 < KirkMcDonald> Bang, done.
05:46 < Ycros> yes, but I'm not talking about taking away that choice
05:46 < Ycros> you can compile C/C++ code as static if you wish
05:46 < KirkMcDonald> True.
05:46 < KirkMcDonald> Well.
05:47 < KirkMcDonald> I am not sure how practical that is in practice.
05:47 < Ycros> both Python's and Haskell's package system integrate at the
system level too, if I have a dependency that's installed via apt, and it
satisfies my project's deps, it won't get pulled in
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06:54 < anticw> dho: stop feeding trolls :-)
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09:05 < trevor> Say g.Es is a vector holding things which comply with the
Entity interface
09:05 < trevor> I want to go through and call Step on each one (Step is a
func in the Entity interface)
09:05 < trevor> http://paste.lisp.org/display/93196
09:06 < trevor> That doesn't work, but I'm looking for the "Go" way to do
this
09:07 < Kashia> any error messages?
09:07 < trevor> game.go:37: invalid type assertion: e.(Entity)
(non-interface type int on left)
09:07 < Kashia> i, e := range
09:07 < Kashia> first is the index I think
09:07 < trevor> OH, duh
09:08 < trevor> Forgot, that int on left should have given me a clue
09:08 < trevor> It just confused me :)
09:08 < Kashia> *nod*
09:08 < trevor> thanks
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09:12 < Kashia> hm.  really counter intuitive.
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09:12 < Kashia> I doubt one really wants only the index usually
09:12 < Kashia> but it is analogous to the x.(Type) case
09:13 < Kashia> y, ok := x.(Type) where one can leave the second return
value off too
09:14 < trevor> I don't have much experience with Go, but when I range over
a container, I usually just want the items
09:15 < Kashia> I agree.
09:16 < Kashia> The ordering of index first is quite like in C, where one
only iterates over indices
09:19 < trevor> Having the element the first return value and index the
optional second would probably save a lot of "_, x := range a"
09:19 < trevor> But its not that big of a deal really
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09:56 < alexis_> is there anyone here?
09:58 < dagle> Yes.
09:59 < alexis_> I am interested in writing an exact rounding maths lib,
would this be useful
09:59 < dagle> rounding?
10:00 < alexis_> floating point rounding.
10:00 < trevor> alexis_: There has been discussion on the mailing list
recently about such a pkg
10:00 < alexis_> that was me
10:02 < dagle> I kinda feel that a round function would be that different on
each usage that a general function is pretty hard.
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10:03 < alexis_> I have found in my reading an interesting approach
10:03 < alexis_> It is based upon two things.
10:04 < dagle> round(x float, dec, close int) is pretty general.
10:04 < alexis_> One is a set of tight bounds on the required precision,
10:04 < alexis_> that is not what I ment
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10:05 < alexis_> I meant a library of maths functions with exact rounding,
eg.  ln() exp() sin() etc.
10:06 < dagle> Aha.
10:06 < dagle> Just woke up.  :)
10:07 < alexis_> as the current lib is accurate only to \pm one \epsilon
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10:09 < alexis_> I will do something and come back.
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10:18 < moraes> guys, http://paste.pocoo.org/ now supports go!
10:18 < moraes> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/163927/
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10:19 < moraes> thanks to KirkMcDonald for the grammar.  :)
10:20 < sebastiandeutsch> I want to create a composite struct that uses
Time.  So I imported time and used it, but the compiler say that he doesnt know
Time.  http://pastebin.com/m5c5a6abe
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10:29 < cc_br> hi all!
10:29 < cc_br> just a simple question..  does go have constructors?
10:31 < jessta> cc_br: nope
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10:31 < cc_br> ty
10:31 < jessta> cc_br: but the convention is just to make a function called
NewSomething()
10:34 < sebastiandeutsch> Getting nuts - when I import time, I assume I can
use the Time struct but I get errors: imported and not used: time / undefined:
Time
10:35 < cc_br> yeh, i was doing that already =)
10:35 < cc_br> @sebastiandeutsch don't you have to use time.Time ?
10:37 < sebastiandeutsch> cc_br: yes that was it.  thx.
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11:22 < sebastiandeutsch> was io.ReadFile abandoned?
11:25 < Kashia> ioutil I think
11:25 < Kashia> io/ioutil
11:25 < sebastiandeutsch> Kashia: Ah it was moved
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12:00 < sebastiandeutsch> Is there something like ReadLine if I don't want
to read the whole file?
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12:03 < jessta> sebastiandeutsch: yes
12:04 < sebastiandeutsch> jessta: When I search the help for ReadLine I
yield no results.  I can haz pointer?
12:04 < jessta> sebastiandeutsch: bufio.ReadString('\n')
12:04 < sebastiandeutsch> jessta: thx
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12:33 < sebastiandeutsch> does go have something like default parameters in
functions?
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12:36 < jessta> sebastiandeutsch: nope
12:36 < jessta> you can just use wrapper functions
12:39 < sebastiandeutsch> k
12:41 * dagle tried to debug som php code.
12:41 < dagle> But suiced was the better option.
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12:49 < jessta> rewriting in go is better than suicide
12:50 < dagle> The functions sucks more then the language.
12:54 < dagle> I really like this: If(!function_exists('somefunc')) {
function somefunc ...  }
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12:54 < dagle> So if there is a function named the same that does something
totaly different then use that instead and don't give an error!  That seams to be
a good idea!
12:57 < jessta> yeah, I'm a big fan of static typing and non-meta
programming
13:06 < dagle> :)
13:07 < Kashia> yay for system wide replacement of classes at runtime like
objc ;)
13:12 < moraes> or python
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13:26 < taruti> or perl
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13:46 < jessta> or lisp
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15:51 < taruti> would other people like a single-vtable-interface-struct
possiblity in Go in addition to the current model?
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15:51 * taruti is thinking on what level to hack support for it
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15:55 < taruti> basically a variant of new that would create:
pointer->{iface-vtable, struct-field1, ..., struct-fieldN}.
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16:24 < rog_> taruti: what do you mean by that?
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16:39 < taruti> rog_: just a memory layout optimization for the case that
uses a "classic" class approach.
16:40 < rog_> how is it an optimisation?
16:42 < taruti> rog_: because I end up needing pointer to interfaces rather
than interfaces which results in more overhead with the current system.
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16:49 < rog_> why do you want to recreate java in go?
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16:50 < jessta> taruti: why?
16:51 < taruti> jessta: shared memory concurrency things.
16:51 < taruti> but I'll benchmark things first
16:52 < rog_> "don't communicate by sharing memory, share memory by
communicating" :-)
16:52 < me__> that is a remarkably catchy statement
16:53 < taruti> rog_: of course if the data is ~500mb it might make sense to
share it ;)
16:53 < taruti> database like thing.
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16:58 < peppers> is it reasonable to code a p2p client in go?  or is the
networking lib not mature enough yet?
16:59 < jessta> peppers: yep, it's reasonable
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17:00 < peppers> jessta: thanks, very good news :)
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17:16 < rog_> taruti: which data?
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17:53 < ptrb> hey I don't suppose there's some cookbook code floating around
somewhere that parses typical HTML, is there?
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18:49 < tor7> ptrb: the xml package can parse HTML (somewhat)
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19:10 < abiosoft> hello
19:10 < ptrb> tor7: yeah I looked at that, but was hoping there was some
example code floating around somewhere.  all i've been able to find is someone
parsing twitter atom results :\
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19:19 < taruti> Has anyone got flymake working with go?
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19:31 < taruti> Slice assignment is probably non-atomical?
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19:33 < taruti> I am thinking of translating C code like "T *entries =
malloc(sizeof(T) * N); ...  ; entries = malloc(sizeof(T) * N2);" where the Ts have
mutexes to protect them and they are concurrently accessed by multiple
go-routines.  What is a good way to do this in Go?
19:34 < taruti> The issue is the reassigning to entries is atomical in C,
but if it is a slice in Go then probably not atomical.
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19:43 < KirkMcDonald> "Atomic" is the adjective.
19:52 < tor7> taruti: a good way is to redesign the program to use
goroutines and channels ;)
19:53 < bortzmeyer> taruti: You can do a slice assignment?  My compiler does
not let me put t[1:2] on the left side of a =
19:55 < taruti> bortzmeyer: see the vector package for an example.
19:55 < taruti> tor7: not everything is modellable naturally with
go-channels.
19:59 < tor7> taruti: look at the sync package for mutexes then
20:00 < taruti> tor7: I am using them.
20:01 < tor7> then, what was your question again?
20:03 < taruti> tor7: looking for a way to get variable sized arrays through
a pointer to get atomic update on that pointer if needed.  (yes it can be solved
with adding a global mutex but that would be quite bad)
20:05 < tor7> like "p = p + 1" or "p = q" where the allocated memory is
disjunct?
20:06 < taruti> p = q
20:07 < tor7> I doubt you can do that without some form of synchronization
20:07 < taruti> which should on the platforms that go support iff p and q
are word-sized.
20:08 < tor7> if you used pointers to arrays (as opposed to slices) it would
be possible
20:08 < tor7> but you said variable sized array
20:08 < taruti> yes, except go does not support variable sized arrays.
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20:09 < taruti> a pointer to a slice would be possible, but I don't know
whether avoiding that indirection is possible
20:09 < tor7> exactly.  so now the bigger question, which involves the Go
way of doing things, is why would you want to do it that way?
20:09 < tor7> why are two uncommunicating threads writing to the same data
20:10 < happy> does go prevent if else statements?
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20:10 < tor7> happy: say what?
20:10 < happy> oops
20:10 < taruti> tor7: it is shared data and there are multiple clients
accessing it.  and some operations need to access multiple items (and thus there
needs to be locking order to avoid deadlocks)
20:10 < happy> I mean else if
20:11 < happy> I am getting a weird error "syntax error near else"
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20:11 < Olathe> happy: You're wondering how to do else if in Go ?
20:11 < tor7> happy: not without an extra pair of braces "if exp { } else {
if ...  }
20:11 < taruti> also things need to have an identity and be serialized, thus
channels are a quite poor solution to this.
20:12 < tor7> happy: you're better off using an empty switch statement
20:12 < happy> tor7: It is just two options and it is a quick test
20:12 < happy> I will pastebin it
20:12 < pure_x01> does anyone have a good explination of packages v.s object
files ..and compilation (how to reference packages on compilation)
20:13 < tor7> pure_x01: all sources of a package have to be compiled in one
step, resulting in one object file
20:13 < taruti> pure_x01: use the Makefile-stubs provided.
20:13 < happy> anyone know why this won't compile?
http://pastebin.com/d258d7359
20:14 < tor7> happy: switch { case a < 0: ...; case a == 0: ...; case a
> 0: ...; }
20:14 < tor7> happy: it fails because the else statement has to be a block.
there are no "lone" one-line statements in Go
20:15 < happy> tor7: nope.  That did not work
20:15 < happy> same error
20:16 < tor7> happy: http://gopaste.org/view/ePE37
20:17 < pure_x01> tor7: thanx
20:17 < pure_x01> taruti, thahx
20:18 < Olathe> happy: You can try this, too: http://pastebin.com/d3c39d140
20:18 < tor7> Olathe: you pasted it 5 seconds before I got around to it :)
20:18 < Olathe> OK :)
20:18 < tor7> http://gopaste.org/view/Ev311
20:19 < Olathe> Oh, mine is not so nice.
20:19 < happy> tor7 I tried that
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20:19 < pure_x01> tor7, taruti: i have this Makefile..  is there anything
apperantly wrong with it http://pastebin.com/m2e5fbefd
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20:19 < happy> Olathe, I guess I will try your way
20:19 < Olathe> happy: http://pastebin.com/d1174d3db
20:20 < Olathe> Try that, since it is a bit better than my previous
20:20 < tor7> pure_x01: are main.go and netsnail.go in the same package?
20:20 < happy> Olathe: why did you do the assignment?
20:21 < happy> file := files[i]?
20:21 < pure_x01> tor7; no ..  main.go is in main package and netsnail.go is
in the netsnail package
20:21 < Olathe> happy: Yes, it keeps you from having to look it up at that
index each time, plus it makes the code a bit nicer to read (I think).
20:21 < tor7> pure_x01: then it looks okay to my eyes :)
20:21 < happy> ok
20:22 < Olathe> There's probably some nicer way to do that (iterating
through array).
20:22 < pure_x01> tor7: thanx..  :-)
20:22 < tor7> pure_x01: though I'd make "main.$O: main.go netsnail.$O" to
get the dependencies right
20:23 < pure_x01> tor7: thanx il do that
20:23 < Olathe> happy: Maybe this: for _, file := range files {
20:23 < tor7> note how main.go depends on the object for the packages it
uses
20:24 < Olathe> happy: Like in http://pastebin.com/d118859a
20:26 < usa> pure_x01, I would use more Make variables.  like $@ and $^.  I
may have updated your pastebin.
20:27 < pure_x01> usa: how does those work?
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20:27 < happy> Olathe, now I have a new problem :-(.  My function definition
for isOlderThan is not working.  Can you tell me how I can make it work?
20:28 < tor7> pure_x01: not very well with Go, they're handier for languages
where you can do piecemeal compilation like C
20:28 < tor7> $@ and $^ are shortcuts for the target and dependencies of a
rule
20:29 < pure_x01> how come compilation with go and multiple packages is so
complicated..  why not just 6g -o mybin src/*.go
20:29 < taruti> Has anyone used cpp with Go? (yes, I realise it is evil, but
lacking proper generics is also evil)
20:29 < taruti> pure_x01: just have one directory per-package and it will
become much easier.
20:30 < usa> $@ is the "target", the thing to the left of the colon
20:30 < tor7> pure_x01: it's only complicated if you do things in a
different way from the standard go packages :)
20:30 < usa> $^ are the prerequsites, the things to the right of the colon.
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20:38 < trevor> Anyone know of a book/talk that goes over good design of
concurrent programs written in a language like go?
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20:39 < trevor> I read Pike's article about his window system in newsqueak,
which was interesting, but I didn't pull a lot of generalizations from it
20:39 < me__> trevor: for the theory behind it and some reasonable examples,
'Communicating Sequential Processes' by Hoare
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20:39 < trevor> me__: I tried that, but it seemed more focused of theory
20:40 < taruti> also Erlang stuff might be usefull for concurrent solutions
(but they have slightly different ways of doing things with messaging tied to
process identity)
20:40 < me__> yea.  the later part of the book (after he talks about the
angelic stuff) is more non-theory.
20:41 < trevor> me__: I'll try browsing it again to see if I can find the
non theory stuff
20:41 < trevor> I guess what I am looking for is Pike's The Practice of
Programming turned into The Practice of Concurrent Programming
20:41 < trevor> Hopefully he writes that book for Go :)
20:44 < damjan> isn't anything written on the "Actor model" applieable to go
directly
20:45 < trevor> Possibly, know of any good books on designing practical
programs with the actor model?
20:46 < damjan> no :)
20:46 < damjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actor_model#See_also
20:46 < damjan> :)
20:47 < trevor> And they all look so relevant to writing programs :)
20:48 < trevor>
http://www.amazon.com/Actor-Model-Frederic-P-Miller/dp/6130094280/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1263156563&sr=1-3
was published recently
20:48 < trevor> The product description only describes the history of the
actor model, and not the actual book itself
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20:56 < ptrb> So xml.Unmarshal shits itself when there's any XML Syntax
error...  what's the commonly accepted practice to be a bit more permissive with
input?
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20:59 < taruti> praying
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21:00 < tor7> ptrb: p.AutoClose = xml.HTMLAutoClose
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21:04 < pure_x01> tor7, taruti: its working now
http://pastebin.com/d7471d1e3 wasnt so complicated after all ..  but thanx for the
help :-)
21:05 < peppers_> I code in kate for linux and have its load/save profile
set to iso-8859-1.  will this be a problem when coding in Go?
21:07 < tor7> only if you use any non-ascii characters
21:08 < pure_x01> is go the first "low level" (maybe lower than c#,Java)
language with default support for unicode?
21:08 < tor7> but, please, get with the times and make the switch to UTF-8
already!  ;)
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21:25 < happy> how do you caste from one type to another?
21:26 < happy> nm
21:35 < happy> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=512
21:35 < taruti> hmm, is time.Ticker broken if the system clock is moved
backwards?
21:39 < ptrb> autoclose!  okay
21:39 < ptrb> thanks!
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21:47 < sebastiandeutsch> I want to read a text file that is iso-8859-1 is
there something to convert the strings to utf-8?
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21:53 < KirkMcDonald> I can do it in one line of Python.  :-)
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21:57 < sebastiandeutsch> I can do it in several lines in C++ aswell, I just
wonder if I have to port iconv to #go
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22:03 < tor7> if it's latin-1 just upcast the bytes to ints and be happy
that latin-1 is a subset of unicode
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22:04 < tor7> then use string([]int) to convert to a string and off you go
22:05 < sebastiandeutsch> tor7: thx
22:05 < sebastiandeutsch> that's a good quickfix, but maybe i try to wrap
iconv
22:07 < pure_x01> whats your thoughts on having error's from unused stuff..
sometimes i like to comment out code just to try without it and then the imports
get unused..  i think it would be good with just a warning
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22:08 < rog_> pure_x01: i think on balance it's good.  particularly for
unused modules
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22:10 < pure_x01> rog_: but in what sense is it an error?
22:11 < happy_> pure_x01: I agree completely.  A warning would be more
appropriate.  However, it appears go does not understand warnings.  I have never
seen them
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22:13 < pure_x01> it feels like it is negative to productivity that when i
just temporarily comment out something i also have to go up to the top of the file
to comment out the import and then compile..  normally this is done to revert to
the last known working state ..
22:14 < damjan> tor7: any charset is a subset of unicode, what you ment is
latin-1 bytes expanded to 4bytes is also valid UCS-4
22:14 < happy_> pure_x01: I have had the same issue many times
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22:14 < pure_x01> happy_: hopefully it is something that they will change..
do you know if there is an issue submitted on this?
22:15 < tor7> damjan: correct.  latin 1 codes are the same as the equivalent
unicode codes is what I meant.
22:15 < happy_> I don't know
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22:21 < rog_> pure_x01: it means you can look at any go module that compiles
and know that all the dependencies are real
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22:25 < pure_x01> rog_: In other languages there are tools that do that for
you.  But you got a point but is this feature really worth the price of reducing
productivity.  I would be possible to just have a warning and then trust the
programmers to do the right thing.
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22:29 < sebastiandeutsch> rog_: at least it makes it difficult to learn the
language, because you have to play lego with your code blocks.
22:30 < rog_> i think there should probably be a compiler option to turn off
the error
22:31 < rog_> but if it's just modules declarations you have a problem with,
it's easy enough to put in a dummy function with a reference to the module.  then
you've got no further problems.
22:31 < pure_x01> i do not know of any well known language that treat unused
stuff as errors
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22:31 < pure_x01> s/language/compiler
22:33 < taruti> making the spurious import a warning would be nice
22:33 < Kashia> well, it does force you to have clean code...
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22:34 < taruti> Kashia: well clean code emits no warnings, but when
commenting things out when developing that is very annoying
22:35 < trevor> I agree with taruti, I've hit this several times
22:35 < Kashia> otoh, you see at one glance if you are in debugging mode
(log module not uncommented)
22:36 < trevor> More often with variables.  Say I comment out the a line
that uses a variable just to test something
22:36 < trevor> Then I try to build and I get an unused error
22:36 < peppers> maybe the compilers could have a no-force-clean flag?
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22:37 < sebastiandeutsch> If you are very secure using the language, you
probably appreciate this feature.  But as a go-noob it is really annoying.  In the
beginning you need to be a little messy.
22:38 < trevor> I am a go noob and in the process of writing my first few
programs I hit the unused error several times
22:38 < Kashia> the package seperation annoyed me a little.  makes for clear
separation, but it sure prevents one from being messy ;)
22:38 < trevor> Just from temporarily commenting a line
22:38 < pure_x01> anyone knows what the max linelenth of gofmt is..  it does
not obey the magic 80 column ..
22:40 < trevor> "Go has no line length limit.  Don't worry about overflowing
a punched card.  If a line feels too long, wrap it and indent with an extra tab."
22:40 < trevor> http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html
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22:42 < pure_x01> trevor: thanx
22:42 < pure_x01> i have this code http://gopaste.org/view/QqUom that gofmt
insist on turing to one single row that is longer than 80 chars :-(
22:43 < cc_br> hi all
22:43 < cc_br> is it possible to call a Go function from C code ? That way I
would be able to use a Go function as a callback ...
22:44 < taruti> cc_br: you *can* do that, but not easily at the moment.
22:44 < cc_br> hmm..  ok, thx :)
22:46 < taruti> cc_br: pipes are one way to do it
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23:17 < ehird> Should I be using -r release or the latest hg commit?
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23:22 < trevor> ehird: I use the latest and it works fine
23:22 < trevor> The website recomends -r release
23:22 < ehird> Good enough for me.
23:22 < ehird> When was the last release, anyway?
23:23 < trevor> r=release.2010-01-05
23:23 < trevor> Thats the latest
23:24 < ehird> Eh. Quite recent, but if the latest works, no reason not to.
23:24 < trevor> It doesn't seem that release is the same as
release.2010-01-05
23:24 < trevor> I'm not sure when the release tag was made
23:25 < ehird> Query the revision with hg?
23:25 < trevor> release is from Nov 10
23:31 < cc_br> taruti: i managed to implement the callback using goroutines
and shared memory.  Dirty hack but it works well =) thx
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23:31 < taruti> cc_br: you *are* using some kind of mutex there hopefully :)
23:33 < cc_br> taruti
23:33 < cc_br> oops
23:33 < cc_br> taruti: yep
23:39 < ehird> Huh, semicolons are inserted automatically after every
statement now.  That's new, right?
23:39 < ehird> It didn't use to be like that.
23:40 < trevor> Yeah, the compiler automatically does that
23:41 < adiabatic> compiler, or gofmt?
23:41 < ehird> trevor: yes, but the last time I used Go it wasn't true
23:41 < trevor> You almost never need to type a semicolon, unless you are in
a for or something
23:42 < ehird> trevor: Yes.  I know that.
23:42 < ehird> But I used Go right after it came out.
23:42 < ehird> Back then, you could just omit the last semicolon in a block.
23:42 < ehird> Am I mistaken?
23:43 < trevor> No, you can indeed leave out semicolons now
23:44 < ehird> Thanks.
23:47 < plexdev> http://is.gd/627bR by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: Sqrt using 386 FPU.
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23:52 < CodeBlock> is it possible to get the Go compiler to run on netbsd?
Is gccgo an option, if not?
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23:54 < ehird> CodeBlock: I think someone was working on that.
23:54 < CodeBlock> hm.
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--- Log closed Mon Jan 11 00:00:07 2010