--- Log opened Tue Jan 12 00:00:26 2010
--- Day changed Tue Jan 12 2010
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00:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/65YWw by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: special cases for Fmod
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00:37 < gnuvince> is there an easy way to read an int (I don't need error
checking) from the keyboard?
00:40 < tyr42> I'm looking for the same thing, actually.
00:40 < vhold> For a console application?  my $fresh_int = <STDIN>;
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00:41 < vhold> perldoc -f int # if you want to force it to an int
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00:45 < dagle> Hmmmm.  Intressting blogentry about generics and go.
00:46 < jessta> vhold: huh?  this isn't #perl
00:48 < tyr42> ya, I thought that looked too simple
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00:50 < dagle> Reading from /dev/stdin should work.
00:51 < tyr42> Do you have to use a buffer slice?
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00:52 < plexdev> http://is.gd/663DR by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/prof/ -- add
pprof output format to prof.
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00:54 < dagle> tyr42: Buffer slice?  Read wants a byte slice.
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00:55 < tyr42> as the buffer.  Opps
00:55 < sebastiandeutsch> how do I replace a substring within a string?
regex or LastIndex and slicing?
00:55 < tyr42> oops
00:55 < dagle> os.Stdin.Read(buffer)
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00:56 < dagle> sebastiandeutsch: RepcaceAllString ?
00:56 < dagle> In regex.
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00:56 < sebastiandeutsch> dagle: so regex will be my choice.  thx.
00:56 < tyr42> do I have to catch the error with it
00:57 < tyr42> like nr, er := f.Read(&buf);
00:57 < dagle> yes.
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00:58 < dagle> if nr = 0 then eof or er = EOF
00:59 < dagle> so you could do nr, _ := f.Read(&buf);
01:00 < dagle> if you don't care about other errors.
01:00 < tyr42> for now at least
01:02 < reggna> Okej, just a quick question: Is there a good way to convert
a []byte to a string?
01:02 < dagle> reggna: string([]byte)
01:03 < reggna> dagle: :D
01:03 < reggna> Why didn't I test that?...
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01:04 < ashaw> I am in need of treating a double float as an integer.
01:05 < ashaw> I need only needed to access the high int32.
01:06 < skelterjohn> package unsafe might have what you need
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01:07 < tyr42> How about turning a string into a float.  Whenever I try
atof, I get a segfault
01:09 < tyr42> All I'm trying is
01:09 < tyr42> str := "6.345";
01:09 < tyr42> num, _ := strconv.Atof(str);
01:09 < tyr42> fmt.Fprintf(os.Stdout, "The number is: %d", num)
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01:11 < skelterjohn> %d isn't a float
01:11 < skelterjohn> use %f for floar
01:11 < skelterjohn> the segfault probably happens on the type assertion
01:13 < tyr42> oh
01:13 < ashaw> is there no more elegant way?
01:13 < ashaw> I am looking at the following C code, and am trying to
convert it to go.
01:14 < ashaw> #define Mul12Cond(rh, rl, a, b) \
01:14 < ashaw> {\
01:14 < ashaw> const double two_em53 = 1.1102230246251565404e-16; /*
0x3CA00000, 0x00000000 */\
01:14 < ashaw> const double two_e53 = 9007199254740992.; /* 0x43400000,
0x00000000 */\
01:14 < ashaw> double u, v; \
01:14 < ashaw> db_number _a=a, _b=b; \
01:14 < ashaw> \
01:14 < ashaw> if (_a.i[HI]>0x7C900000) u = _a*two_em53; \
01:14 < ashaw> else u = _a; \
01:14 < ashaw> if (_b.i[HI]>0x7C900000) v = _b*two_em53; \
01:14 < ashaw> else v = _b; \
01:14 < ashaw> \
01:14 < ashaw> Mul12(rh, rl, u, v); \
01:14 < ashaw> \
01:14 < ashaw> if (_a.i[HI]>0x7C900000) {*rh *= two_e53; *rl *= two_e53;}
\
01:14 < ashaw> if (_b.i[HI]>0x7C900000) {*rh *= two_e53; *rl *= two_e53;}
\
01:14 < ashaw> }
01:14 < ashaw> I know that the operation is only checking if the double is
larger than a set number.
01:16 < ashaw> Can anyone help me
01:16 < dagle> ashaw: Please you a pastebin next time.
01:17 < ashaw> oh i 'm sorry, which one should i use.
01:17 < dagle> ashaw: http://gopaste.org/
01:18 < KirkMcDonald> Oh yeah, that reminds me.
01:18 < KirkMcDonald> Go support was enabled on paste.pocoo.org, too.
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01:19 < ashaw> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/164523/
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01:19 < ashaw> can anyone help me?
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01:20 < dagle> ashaw: I have no idea what the variables are in that macro.
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01:23 < ashaw> in the if statement we are checking if the exponent is
greater than 970, if it is the variables a and b are scaled such that they are not
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01:39 < plexdev> http://is.gd/66aV0 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/prof/ --
delete debugging prints
01:39 < plexdev> http://is.gd/66aV7 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/prof/ --
delete debugging prints
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01:45 < ashaw> nobody?
01:45 < fgb> "Go has interfaces, but not inheritance.  Does anyone know of
UI
01:45 < fgb> toolkits designed around composition, rather than inheritance?"
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01:48 < fgb> #go-nuts is fun to read
01:49 < fgb> damn, I meant the mailing list.  hah
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02:00 < nf> it is fun
02:01 < nf> it can be a bit challenging at times
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02:09 < fgb> and I still don't get why they call callback listeners
02:09 < fgb> *callbacks
02:15 < nf> fgb: who does?
02:17 < fgb> most gui toolkits
02:17 < fgb> widget.addListener("button1", "onclick", listener);
02:17 < fgb> that's what someone posted in the mailing list
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02:32 < nf> it's just nomenclature
02:32 < nf> it "listens" for an "event"
02:33 < happy_> will it be impossible for QT to ever work with go because it
is written in C++?
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02:51 < absurdhero> happy_: no.  bindings could be written
02:54 < happy_> absurdhero: ok, just wondering :-)
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02:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/66nfp by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/asn1/ --
asn1: fix parsing of elements after a string in a structure.
02:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/66nfB by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/asn1/ --
asn1: fix marshaling of structures with >1 elements.
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04:28 < broo> hi all
04:30 < broo> anyone have an idea as to what was broken in the networking
stuff?  every tcp dial attempt now just results in network is unreachable, even
the net and http tests have that error
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05:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/66JEm by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: special cases for Ceil, Exp, Floor, Log, Log10
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05:45 < drastic> When I try to install Go, I get a bunch of "make[1]:
execvp: pwd: Too many levels of symbolic links" messages during compilation and
then eventually get an error like: "gcc: /_exits.c: No such file or directory"
when it starts making lib9.  Anyone seen this before?
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07:02 < trevor> Is there a function that is called on an object when the
garbage collector collects it?
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07:21 < path[l]> why would you need that?  out of curiosity
07:22 < trevor> I'm wrapping a C library using cgo
07:23 < trevor> NewX allocates memory
07:23 < trevor> func (x *X) finalize() would free that memory
07:23 < trevor> Finalize being the function the garbage collector calls
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14:39 < LuitvD> hello!
14:40 < LuitvD> I'm having the weirdest trouble compiling Go, so I hoped
someone here could help me fix it
14:41 < dho> can't help if you don't ask
14:41 < LuitvD> when I try to `make all` it fails while testing the Go
packages, though at a different package every time I run it
14:41 < LuitvD> (was still typing/thinking :P took a while)
14:41 < dho> ah
14:41 < dho> how does it fail
14:42 < LuitvD> with a "Trace/breakpoint trap", it says
14:42 < LuitvD> after which Make calls it Error 133
14:44 < LuitvD> I'll pastebin it
14:45 < dho> that doesn't sound good.  What OS/arch
14:45 < LuitvD> http://pastebin.com/d7a6e142d
14:45 < LuitvD> GOOS=linux GOARCH=386
14:45 < LuitvD> it's on a VPS
14:45 < dho> ah
14:45 < dho> Is it using Xen?
14:46 < LuitvD> (with only 265MB RAM, though it's swap is sufficient)
14:46 < LuitvD> I think it is...
14:46 < LuitvD> let me check
14:46 < LuitvD> yes, xen
14:46 < dho> Is there any chance you'd like to provide me or any of the
people at Google to access to this machine?  There are a couple bugs with Go under
Xen and we're not sure if they're Go bugs or Xen bugs\
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14:47 < LuitvD> geez...  err
14:47 < dho> Not a big deal if not
14:48 < dho> But in that case it's something you can just mark down as a
`known issue'
14:49 < dho> Alternatively I can provide you with a patch
14:49 < dho> (maybe)
14:50 < LuitvD> hmmm...
14:51 < LuitvD> dunno if I'd want someone else 'messing' with my VPS
14:51 < LuitvD> I could try some stuff for you
14:52 < dho> yep, understood.  like i said, i can try to provide you with a
patch to fix the issue, but it's difficult to test
14:52 < LuitvD> try me :)
14:52 < LuitvD> why would that be difficult to test?
14:52 < LuitvD> difficult for you?  :P
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14:53 < dho> because my low-level experience is FreeBSD and reading manpages
online is a bit of a pain
14:53 < LuitvD> XD
14:53 < dho> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=386 is the issue
anyway
14:53 < dho> I'll see if I can craft up something for you to use
set_thread_area instead.
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14:54 < LuitvD> my system seems comparable to the issuer's
14:54 < dho> yep
14:55 < dho> your issue looks the same to me.
14:55 < LuitvD> 64-bit hardware, 32-bit Debian Lenny
14:55 < LuitvD> does it?
14:55 < dho> to me, yes
14:55 < LuitvD> to me it doesn't, but that's because I don't know where the
hell I should start reading
14:56 < dho> heh
14:56 < LuitvD> oh, wait, now I see it
14:57 < LuitvD> http://pastebin.com/d3b56477
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14:57 < LuitvD> that's another run of ./all.bash
14:57 < dho> yep, it's random
14:58 < LuitvD> how is that even possible?  :P
14:58 < dho> I'm going to try to get the runtime to use set_thread_area for
you
14:58 < dho> xen must have some bug or dislike it when you set the ldt in
some ways
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14:58 < LuitvD> (seems even less likely than the problems my Motorola
Milestone has...)
14:58 < dho> it's necessary for thread local storage
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15:01 < dho> hm, maybe it is this simple
15:01 < skelterjohn> almost certainly.
15:02 < dho> LuitvD: http://www.gopaste.org/view/4Ymkl
15:02 < dho> try that
15:03 < dho> hm, no that probably won't
15:03 < dho> hold on
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15:07 < dho> Well it helps if he stays in here.
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15:10 < LuitvD> whoops
15:10 < LuitvD> network trouble
15:11 < dho> heh.
15:11 < LuitvD> it there a logger bot so I could read back?  :P
15:11 < dho> LuitvD: http://www.gopaste.org/view/YdS1d
15:11 < dho> try that
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15:11 < dho> I'm sure it doesn't work.
15:13 < LuitvD> it'll take a while
15:14 < dho> shouldn't.
15:14 < dho> just run gotest a bunch of times
15:14 < LuitvD> reconnecting to my server does take a moment
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15:14 < LuitvD> (when running Windows 7, that is)
15:15 < dho> all you need to recompile is src/pkg/runtime (just run make
install there) and src/cmd/gotest (run make install there) and then take any
random package (like src/pkg/asn1 for instance) and run make test there :)
15:15 * LuitvD hates his efficiency when running Win7
15:18 * LuitvD didn't use patch for a while
15:18 < LuitvD> help me out: is 'patch -p1 < YdS1d' correct while in
$GOROOT?
15:19 < dho> yes that should do it.
15:19 < LuitvD> hm, 2 out of 2 hunks FAILED
15:19 < dho> hg identify
15:20 < LuitvD> f467eb7716c4 tip
15:20 < dho> weird.
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15:20 < dho> it's a small patch, you could just hand-aptch it
15:20 < dho> but we're at the same revision
15:20 < dho> so that's odd.
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15:22 < LuitvD> p1 is the right patch level, isn't it?
15:22 < dho> yep
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15:33 < LuitvD> hand-patched it
15:33 < dho> ok
15:33 < LuitvD> now what?
15:33 < LuitvD> full make?
15:33 < dho> i'll be surprised if this works
15:33 < dho> 10:18 < dho> all you need to recompile is src/pkg/runtime
(just run make install there) and src/cmd/gotest (run make install there) and then
take any random package (like src/pkg/asn1 for instance) and run make test there
:)
15:34 < LuitvD> Segmentation fault this time
15:35 < dho> gdb gotest
15:35 < dho> run
15:35 < LuitvD> instead of the Trace/breakpoint trap
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15:35 < dho> yeah that's because my patch doesn't work
15:36 < LuitvD> oh my, no gdb :O
15:36 < dho> that's going to make things difficult
15:36 < LuitvD> just a sec
15:36 < LuitvD> there it is
15:36 < LuitvD> "/home/luitvd/bin/gotest": not in executable format: File
format not recognized
15:36 < LuitvD> ?
15:37 < LuitvD> does that mean trouble?
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15:37 < dho> means the wrong gdb, most likely
15:37 < dho> or
15:37 < LuitvD> how is that even possible
15:37 < LuitvD> seems to be true though...
15:37 < dho> i forgot that gotest is a shell script
15:38 < LuitvD> uname -a shows a 2.6.26-2-xen-686 kernel and GDB is
configured as i486-linux-gnu
15:38 < LuitvD> is that bad?
15:38 < dho> no
15:38 < LuitvD> kay :)
15:38 < LuitvD> then what?  gdb sh gotest?
15:38 < dho> no
15:38 < dho> change the last line of gotestfrom $E ./$O.out "$@" to echo $E
./$O.out "$@"
15:39 < dho> figure out what it's running
15:40 < LuitvD> ./8.out
15:40 < LuitvD> that perhaps?
15:40 < dho> ok
15:41 < LuitvD> oh :)
15:41 < dho> so gdb ./8.out and run it
15:41 < LuitvD> didn't think I had the right line there
15:41 < LuitvD> no debugging symbols
15:41 < dho> right
15:41 < dho> that's why this is fun
15:41 < LuitvD> :)
15:41 < dho> run
15:41 < LuitvD> tho one warning there
15:42 < LuitvD> warning: Loadable segment ".interp" outside of ELF segments
15:42 < LuitvD> useful?
15:42 < dho> i'd ignore it
15:42 < dho> did it segfault?
15:43 < dho> (you need to type run as a command to gdb)
15:43 < LuitvD> XD
15:43 < LuitvD> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
15:43 < LuitvD> so yes
15:43 < LuitvD> 0x0808091c in ??  ()
15:43 < dho> there should be more info about where it segfaulted.
15:43 < dho> ok
15:43 < LuitvD> :)
15:44 < dho> get out of gdb
15:44 < dho> (quit or ^D)
15:44 < LuitvD> and exit anyway?
15:44 < dho> yes
15:44 < LuitvD> kay, done
15:44 < dho> run objdump -d ./8.out | grep 808091c
15:45 < LuitvD> 8080918: 76 02 jbe 0x808091c
15:45 < LuitvD> 808091c: 8b 08 mov (%eax),%ecx
15:45 < LuitvD> guess the last one is what you're looking for...
15:45 < dho> oh good
15:45 < dho> at least the call to set_thread_area worked
15:45 < LuitvD> XD
15:46 < dho> oh
15:46 < dho> wow that's retarded
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15:46 < LuitvD> what is?
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15:46 < dho> change the MOVL 0(AX), CX to MOVL 0(BX), CX
15:46 * LuitvD is doing that now, hold on
15:46 < dho> syscall returns in AX
15:47 < dho> even so this isn't likely to work :)
15:48 < LuitvD> still a segfault, I guess
15:48 < dho> you redid the make install in runtime and re-ran make test?
15:48 < LuitvD> yeah
15:49 < dho> same process, I'm guessing BX isn't right either
15:49 < dho> i'll be back in a bit; meeting
15:49 < LuitvD> 8080924: 8e e8 mov %eax,%gs
15:49 < LuitvD> that's what it fails to do
15:50 < LuitvD> I'm gone for food and more
15:50 < LuitvD> bbl
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15:59 < dho> oh
15:59 < dho> right
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15:59 < dho> i think that should just set up gs for you maybe
15:59 < dho> try commenting out the last 4 lines before the RET
15:59 < dho> when you're back
15:59 * dho meeting
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16:04 < LuitvD> another segfault
16:04 < LuitvD> 807fdae: 89 05 00 00 00 00 mov %eax,0x0
16:04 < LuitvD> right there
16:04 * LuitvD still wasn't gone yet
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16:08 < dho> can you run 6nm ./8.out | grep 807fd | sort
16:08 < dho> and find the one closest to 807fdae
16:08 < LuitvD> no output
16:09 < LuitvD> oh, my bad
16:10 < LuitvD> 807fd02 T _rt0_386
16:10 < LuitvD> 807fdb9 T mainstart
16:10 < LuitvD> 807fdd3 T breakpoint
16:10 < LuitvD> 807fdd6 T gosave
16:10 < LuitvD> 807fdf3 T gogo
16:11 < dho> something in _rt0_386
16:11 < dho> hold
16:15 < dho> yeah this is wrong
16:16 < dho> i don't have time to continue with it at the moment :( sorry
16:16 < LuitvD> when should I come back for this?
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16:21 < dho> LuitvD: what timezone are you
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16:55 < Vova> how can i make asyn sockets?
16:56 < vegai> with select, supposedly
16:56 < Vova> o:
16:57 < dho> what do you mean by `async sockets'
16:57 < vegai> did I grossly misunderstand your question?
16:57 < Vova> asyn recv,accept
16:58 < dho> dial a connection, spawn a goroutine that reads and a goroutine
that writes and have them listen on channel on what to write or send on a channel
for what to read?
16:59 < Vova> goroutine for each connection?
16:59 < LuitvD> why not?
17:00 < JBeshir> Vova: That's typical, yeah.
17:00 * LuitvD can spawn 100.000 goroutines on his laptop without trouble
17:00 < Vova> :o
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17:01 < Vova> i wanted something like 4 goroutines for all the accepted
clients,packets
17:01 < vegai> is golang.org down or just my net...
17:01 < nickjohnson> Vova: why?
17:01 < Vova> golang.org is online
17:01 < LuitvD> vegai: http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/golang.org
17:02 < vegai> LuitvD: touche
17:02 < LuitvD> :)
17:02 * LuitvD loves that site
17:02 * LuitvD is really gone now
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17:03 < Vova> nickjohnson: a go routine for each client isnt too expensive?
17:04 < JBeshir> Vova: They shouldn't be, I believe.
17:04 < LuitvD> Vova: like I said: 100.000 goroutines is still manageable
17:05 < LuitvD> so 20 isn't especially heavvy
17:05 < Vova> ok thanks, i guess i need to do some reading about goroutines
:x
17:06 < JBeshir> I love writing multiple synchronous "threads", and having
them communicate, instead of writing polling or asynchronous code.
17:06 < LuitvD> Vova: the site has plenty of info
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17:06 < LuitvD> the tech talk is especially interesting
17:07 < dho> goroutines are cheap
17:07 < dho> they have tiny stacks
17:07 < LuitvD> (it explains the way I built 100.000 goroutines too)
17:07 < dho> and minimal state
17:07 < dho> goroutines are not threads
17:07 < JBeshir> What's the base stack now?
17:07 < LuitvD> (had to try it after Rob set such an example)
17:07 < LuitvD> anyway, bye
17:07 < LuitvD> bbl
17:07 < dho> 4k i believe
17:07 < dho> lemme look
17:07 < LuitvD> 4k, yeah
17:08 < JBeshir> 4KB was the last one I heard, yeah.
17:08 < dho> 32k
17:08 < JBeshir> 32?
17:08 < JBeshir> Huh.
17:08 < dho> hm
17:08 < dho> no that's the signal stack.
17:08 < vegai> Vova: did you check
http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html#tmp_396
17:09 < dho> 4k + boundaries
17:09 < Vova> vegai: yea
17:09 < JBeshir> Any overall decrease in efficiency of the scheduler from
having lots, or similar?
17:10 < dho> other than the scheduler not being horribly efficient
17:10 * JBeshir is wondering what the processing overhead is, if significant at
all.
17:10 < dho> not much
17:10 < dho> it's a loop
17:10 < dho> and it's not called very often
17:10 < dho> (whenever you can yield)
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17:11 < JBeshir> Okay.
17:11 < skelterjohn> the OS scheduler knows nothing about goroutines, and if
the go runtime scheduler just picks the next goroutine from a pool then that is
very efficient
17:11 < dho> i think it's just like a circle queue of runnables
17:11 < dho> it's not very smart.
17:11 < dho> but it isn't heavyweight
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17:12 < skelterjohn> well, when a goroutine yields, there are a limited
number of goroutines that can take control
17:12 < skelterjohn> if it was just created, or if it's waiting on a channel
that has been read/written
17:13 < skelterjohn> i think that this problem can be done very efficiently
17:13 < skelterjohn> without too much clever thinking required
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17:14 < dho> right, they're `runnables'
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17:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/68HBH by [Roger Peppe] in go/src/cmd/gofmt/ --
Fix bug that prevented the gofmt test script being run on more
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17:54 < ehird> So if I'm doing some concurrency and doing message-passing
instead of shared memory would essentially lead to a memory- and CPU-inefficient
emulation of shared memory with message passing, should I just use shared memory?
17:54 < ehird> (The shared memory is inherent to the problem.)
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17:59 < cthom06> ehird: sounds like youre approaching it in a non-idiomatic
way
18:00 <+iant> ehird: there is nothing wrong with using shared memory, just
make sure that only goroutine owns the memory at a time, and pass ownership of the
shared memory using channels
18:00 < ehird> cthom06: It is not my fault that the problem is
non-idiomatic.  I think I have a solution, though:
18:00 < ehird> both goroutines talk to a central goroutine to do things
like:
18:00 < ehird> get memory location N/set memory location N
18:00 < ehird> and it maintains a central copy of the memory
18:00 < ehird> That way there's no wastefulness.
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18:03 < cthom06> ehird: iant said the better solution, pass the memory
between the goroutines.
18:03 < ehird> wouldn't work, they'd be passing it every handful of ms
18:04 < ehird> it's *very* shared memory
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18:05 < cthom06> ehird: well the way you described you'd have no way of
controlling get/set order, if i understand correctly
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18:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/68LcO by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ --
runtime: fix bug in preemption checks; was causing "lock count" panics
18:07 < ehird> cthom06: that's ok, I need to do a lot of synchronisation
between them manually anyway
18:07 < ehird> (The problem is very unorthodox)
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18:28 < ehird> it's kind of annoying that I have to put all of my program
into a package named "main" even if it's quite big
18:28 < ehird> if it doesn't make sense as a library
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18:30 <+iant> I routinely put self-contained modules in different packages
even if they don't make sense as standalone libraries
18:30 < dho> ehird: that doesn't mean you can't organize it.
18:30 < dho> and that
18:30 < ehird> dho: I know, it's more the name "main" that irritates me :P
18:30 < skelterjohn> ehird: 1) what iant said and 2) what dho said
18:30 < skelterjohn> you guys type faster than i do
18:30 < dho> heh
18:30 < ehird> iant: that means I have to copy the src/pkg makefiles and
tweak them, though
18:30 < ehird> and that's irritating for a relatively small project
18:30 < dho> it's relatively small, but quite big?
18:31 <+iant> true....
18:31 < skelterjohn> ehird: that's a different issue :) some people (dho)
are working on a go builder to streamline that process
18:31 < ehird> dho: ok, let's put it this way: it's about three files big
18:31 * dho <_<
18:31 < ehird> one with the core of the program, and two with different
interfaces
18:32 < dho> weird.  i don't consider that big
18:32 < skelterjohn> time to get out the ruler
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18:33 < ehird> dho: it's too big for one file
18:33 < ehird> and it feels wrong having them all in "main"
18:33 < ehird> is my point
18:33 < Eridius> there's no way at runtime to extract info about constants
provided by a package, is there?
18:33 < skelterjohn> when you use a new language, you have to get used to
new "feelings"
18:33 < Eridius> my goal here is in a test program to be able to print out
the names of constants used in my tests, without building a mapping by hand of
name-to-value
18:34 < dho> skelterjohn: it would be nice to have an arbitrarily named
package containing main
18:34 <+iant> Eridius: If I understand what you are asking, then you are
correct that there is no way to do that
18:34 < Eridius> ok, thanks
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18:35 < skelterjohn> iant: is that something on the horizon?  the names of
those constants are available in the binaries aren't they?
18:35 * Eridius is working on porting his fnmatch gospecs to gotest
18:35 < skelterjohn> dho: why?  *shrug*
18:35 <+iant> actually, no, the names of constants are not currently
available in the binary
18:36 < dho> skelterjohn: for the same reason that java packages can have a
main function inside an arbitrarily named class
18:36 < skelterjohn> well, when I reference os.O_RDONLY, is 6g taking a look
at os's source?
18:36 * Eridius briefly considered trying to parse the .go source file at runtime
to extract the constants, but then realized he wouldn't have a way to actually get
the _value_ of the constants
18:36 < dho> skelterjohn: `main' isn't really the name of the package you're
making when you're writing a program, even if you can organize it or break
standalone pieces out into little mini-packages
18:37 <+iant> skelterjohn: os.O_RDONLY is stored in the os.a package export
data, but that information is not copied into the linked executable
18:37 < skelterjohn> i see.  thanks.
18:37 < dho> it seems like that would be difficult to do though
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18:38 < ehird> skelterjohn: don't talk like that to me boy, I'er been here
e'er since day 3 I'ave
18:38 < ehird> :P
18:38 < skelterjohn> uh, ok
18:39 < ehird> kidding
18:39 < Eridius> damn, you can't convert an integer to a bool with bool(1)
18:39 < ehird> (re "when you use a new language, you have to get used to new
"feelings"")
18:40 < skelterjohn> i know.  but my secret pleasure is making people feel
awkward.
18:40 < skelterjohn> :)
18:40 < skelterjohn> it's hard to do online
18:40 < skelterjohn> in person i have a deadpan stare that i like to break
out a lot
18:40 < dho> iant: do you know if that would be well received?  have gc
define two symbol where it finds the theoretical equivilant of main·init and
main·main and then call those?
18:41 < skelterjohn> dho: I don't think that's a good idea - how would you
invoke one or the other from the command line?
18:41 <+iant> dho: you mean, some option to set the startup package to be
something other than main?
18:41 < skelterjohn> right now, you create a single executable
18:41 < ehird> couldn't you just have some sort of annotation
18:41 < dho> iant: essentially
18:41 < ehird> like
18:41 < skelterjohn> oh, i see
18:41 < ehird> func ismain main() {...}
18:41 < skelterjohn> so still exactly 1 main function, but a different
package
18:41 < dho> right
18:41 < ehird> or if package, yeah
18:42 < ehird> like
18:42 < ehird> package foo hasMain
18:42 <+iant> I think that could be helpful for some sorts of testing; I
think it would be OK but I don't know what Ken would think
18:43 < dho> it would probably be at least slightly gross, since your symbol
would have to be called _i_dont_clash_with_your_namespace_main·main
18:43 < dho> heh
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18:45 < dho> ehird: seems unnecessary, since main and init are special names
in general
18:45 < dho> also init is a special name in any package.
18:45 < ehird> dho: yeah true
18:46 < Eridius> I have to use an explicit "return" in a func with return
values, even if the values are named, right?
18:46 < dho> it would change things a lot in gc too
18:46 <+iant> Eridius: right
18:46 < dho> Eridius: yes
18:47 < Eridius> now that StringVector is really just a []string, I can
avoid using v.Data(), right?  Or am I encouraged to do that anyhow?
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18:48 < ehird> Eridius: and what if it changes again?
18:51 < dho> i think it's useful but i don't really grok the compiler
18:51 < Eridius> ehird: true
18:52 < Eridius> hrm, I'm using tests patterned after path_test.go (e.g.
declaring a bunch of structs that encode my test data).  There's no way to
preserve line information here, right?
18:52 * Eridius wishes for hygenic macros..  .or at least macros of some sort
18:52 < ehird> bearded mcaros
18:52 < ehird> *macros
18:52 < Eridius> hehe
18:57 < Eridius> whoa, I just got an error that said "expected '}', found
';'" except I don't have any semicolons in my cde.  I wasn't aware the ;-insertion
could propogate to errors
18:57 -!- JPascal1 [n=jpascal@93-80-27-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined
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18:57 < JPascal1> Hello all!
18:57 < JPascal1> How I can lookup MAC address by IP address?
18:57 -!- Luit [n=luitvd@82-170-227-44.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #go-nuts
18:57 < dho> JPascal1: implement ARP
18:57 -!- LuitvD [n=luitvd@82-170-227-44.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Nick collision
from services.]
18:58 < LuitvD> there, finally back
18:59 < JPascal1> hm...  ARP?
18:59 < dho> address resolution protocol.  it's a layer-2 protocol.
18:59 < dho> your OS probably exposes its arp cache somewhere.
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18:59 < JPascal1> The Go have any functions&
19:00 < dho> usually easiest to just look through that.
19:00 < JPascal1> ?
19:00 < dho> Go has many functions, but one of them is not
GetMACForIPAddress.  That would require some OS-specific knowledge
19:00 < dho> or, alternatively, and ARP client
19:00 < dho> either of which you'd have to write
19:01 < JPascal1> thx
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19:04 < Eridius> whoa, crazy error message
19:05 < Eridius> import ( "fmt", "os" )
19:05 < Eridius> gives me: syntax error near uint8
19:05 * LuitvD applauds
19:05 < Eridius> the issue is the use of , instead of ; (in the real code,
it's the use of , instead of a bare newline)
19:05 < Eridius> but that's not a very nice error message
19:07 < LuitvD> though why not just use newlines?
19:07 < Eridius> I'm not very familiar with Mercurial, and the codereview
plugin changes it even more.  Is it valid for me to make intermediate local
commits, and then somehow submit those commits for review?  Because last time I
submitted something, I didn't make a local commit, it just submitted my dirty tree
19:07 < skelterjohn> that's not the point LuitvD :)
19:07 < Eridius> LuitvD: I do use newlines.  I just had a , after an import
19:07 < ehird> channels are cheap right?
19:07 < Eridius> yes
19:07 < LuitvD> ehird: right
19:07 < ehird> like if I want { foo chan bool; bar chan bool } I can do that
instead of { foo chan anEnumWithFooAndBar }
19:08 < Eridius> well, the two embody different concepts
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19:08 < dho> ehird: they're more expensive than mutexes, but they're not
particularly heavyweight either.
19:08 < Eridius> the first one is two separate channels for two distinct
values, the second would be for a channel where your Foo and Bar values are pairs
19:08 < Eridius> hrm, I wonder if goroutines could somehow leverage Grand
Central Dispatch on darwin
19:08 < ehird> they're both used for synchronisation; one is "ok, you can X
now" and the other one, coming after the first, is "ok, you can Y now"
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19:09 < ehird> Eridius: *OS X; I don't think Darwin includes GCD.
19:09 < ehird> You might offend all three people who use Darwin/X11 systems.
19:09 < Macpunk> Last night I discovered how the object orientation of Go
works.  I shat bricks.  It looks awesome.  :D
19:09 < dho> ehird: they do objc.
19:09 < dho> not go.
19:09 < Eridius> ehird: ah true, darwin is technically distributed by
itself, but AFAIK it's not really supported to run it by itself
19:09 < dho> :P
19:09 < Eridius> opendarwin is dead
19:09 < Macpunk> actually, there's puredarwin
19:10 < ehird> Eridius: You can manually assemble your own distro.
19:10 < Eridius> huh, someone resurrected opendarwin?
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[]
19:10 < Macpunk> I dunno if it was a resurrection, but I know it exists and
is alive :P
19:10 < Macpunk> http://puredarwin.org
19:10 < Macpunk> and Freenode/#puredarwin
19:11 < ehird> i like how a lot of those screenshots are just "the exact
same screen — on a different VM host!"
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19:12 < ehird> [19:12] <ehird> they're both used for synchronisation;
one is "ok, you can X now" and the other one, coming after the first, is "ok, you
can Y now" ← so should this be one or two channels?
19:12 < Macpunk> I know right.  I thought the same thing.  :P
19:13 < dho> ehird: can two Xs arrive before a Y?
19:13 < ehird> dho: it's always x,y,x,y,x,y,x,y
19:13 < dho> then why do you need two channels?m
19:14 < ehird> I could just use a chan bool, yes, but just saying
"<-sync" both times would require a comment
19:14 < ehird> and non-self-documenting code is lame
19:14 < dho> maintain state in the worker
19:14 < ehird> I wish there was a unit type
19:14 < ehird> "chan bool" wastes *a whole bit* :-)
19:14 < ehird> (erased at compile-time obviously)
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19:15 < ehird> Can a function and a data type have the same name?
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19:19 < Macpunk> Actually, I had a similar question.  Can a struct and an
interface have the same name?
19:19 <+iant> ehird: yes, in a sense, but, e.g., if you define a function
with that name, then within the function the name will always refer to the
function
19:19 < ehird> pretty sure the answer is no
19:19 < ehird> they're both in the type namespace
19:19 <+iant> there is only namespace (except for labels)
19:19 < ehird> alright
19:19 < ehird> iant: yeah, I stopped when I realised my declaration would be
19:19 < ehird> func foo(foo foo) {
19:20 <+iant> so you can only have two objects with the same name if one is
nested
19:20 < ehird> (literally; well, if you replace foo with the actual name)
19:20 < ehird> why are labels a different namespace?
19:20 < ehird> lame :P
19:20 <+iant> because labels don't follow scope nesting; you can define a
label in an inner scope and use a goto statement to reach it from an outer scope
19:20 <+iant> you can't do that with a variable
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19:21 < ehird> just make every label declaration bubble up :P
19:21 < ehird> (the scopes)
19:21 < ehird> and hey, you get computed goto for free
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19:21 < ehird> you may decide for yourself if this is a plus or a minus
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19:27 < ehird> iant: so in a structure is "Foo Foo" not valid?
19:27 -!- michael| [n=maikeru@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has quit [Read
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19:27 < ehird> example "Port Port", public field Port that is a Port
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19:28 < Eridius> hey guys, I have 2 open codereviews from 2 months ago.
152115 and 152092.  Is there any chance someone could look at them?
19:28 <+iant> ehird: I think that is valid; fields are nested in the scope
of the struct
19:28 <+iant> ehird: I would have to look it up, though
19:29 < ehird> iant: but presumably bad practise?
19:29 < ehird> a shame; I cannot think of a better name
19:29 <+iant> I dunno, I think it's OK as long as it's clear
19:29 < ehird> It should be.
19:31 <+iant> Eridius: you should send a ping message to
golang-dev@googlegroups.com
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19:32 < ehird> hmm
19:32 < Eridius> iant: ok
19:32 < ehird> is it common practice to do const ( _ = iota; ...  )
19:32 < ehird> even if the values don't matter
19:32 < ehird> (if making a meaningless enum)
19:33 < dho> Eridius: make sure they still apply cleanly.
19:34 < Eridius> dho: one is on the go-mode.el file, I don't think that's
been changed.  The other is a typo fix in the docs, and that typo still exists on
golang.org
19:34 * Eridius isn't really sure how to pull down those changes onto this
computer for testing
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reset by peer)]
19:35 * Eridius doesn't really like the codereview extension...  really wish it
worked by using local commits layered on top of the remote history
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19:36 * Eridius really wants to make a local commit before making some changes, so
he can easily revert if he doesn't like them, but doesn't see any way to do that
19:36 < Eridius> iant: when I submit changes, how do I know who to mark as
reviewer?
19:36 < ehird> when defining a constant
19:37 < ehird> should the const ( be on the next line after the type
19:37 < ehird> ?
19:37 <+iant> Eridius: golang-dev@googlegroups.com is always a good default
19:37 < ehird> gofmt inserts a newline in-between
19:37 < Eridius> you can set the mailing list as reviewer?  huh
19:37 <+iant> when it gets approved it will be given a specific reviewer
19:38 < Eridius> ok
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19:41 < Eridius> hrm, the docs for testing/quick include ; in the code
examples
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19:41 < dho> Eridius: it helps if there's an issue associated with the
ticket.
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19:51 < Eridius> d'oh, a panic in quick.QuickCheck() doesn't tell me what
the inputs were >_<
19:51 < ehird> you're porting QuickCheck to Go?
19:51 < Eridius> ehird: testing/quick
19:51 < Eridius> err I meant quick.CheckEqual()
19:52 < Eridius> but yeah, it's the same thing
19:53 < ehird> Is there shorthand for "foo := make a channel; go f(foo)"?
19:53 < ehird> Like "foo := go f(make a channel)" or something.
19:53 < ehird> It would be convenient.
19:54 < skelterjohn> "foo := go f(make(chan X))"?
19:54 < skelterjohn> not sure what you mean
19:54 < Eridius> func gof() chan interface{} { foo := make(chan
interface{}); go f(foo); return foo }
19:54 < Eridius> foo := gof()
19:54 < skelterjohn> oh and get the channel back
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19:55 < ehird> Eridius: That isn't very idiomatic, though.  :P
19:55 < ehird> (Is it?)
19:55 < ehird> Actually, I don't need it.  Yay.
19:55 * Eridius seems to recall seeing sample code that defined functions that
returned channels used for talking to the goroutine they spawned
19:56 * ehird realises that his two synchronisation channels actually are
different
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20:00 < Eridius> if a function has multiple return values, and I try to use
it in an expression, what happens?
20:03 < ehird> *boom*
20:04 < ehird> hmm, should I use a request and response channel if I have a
send request, receive response from other goroutine model?
20:04 < ehird> or one channel with both requests and responses
20:04 < skelterjohn> ehird: if you know that it will always be tit-for-tat
you can use a single channel
20:05 < skelterjohn> but if, for instance, multiple sites field requests,
etc, you'll need different request and response channels
20:05 < ehird> hmm wait i need two channels, one per goroutine talking to it
20:05 < ehird> ugh, this is turning into a maze of channels
20:05 < ehird> damn shared memory
20:05 < skelterjohn> what are you trying to do?
20:06 < ehird> Implement a program.  What it does inherently involves shared
memory
20:06 < ehird> and this is making my program ugly, and thus I am sad.
Specific enough for you?  :P
20:08 < Eridius> hrm, testing/quick has no good way to specify the size of
inputs
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20:13 < Eridius> hrm, testing/quick just uses a random number 0-50 for
string length.  curious.
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20:14 < Eridius> oh, 0-49 actually
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20:28 < Eridius> if I want to get a reflect.Type representing a string, do I
really have to do something like reflect.Typeof("")?  There's no public value that
is a reflect.StringType?
20:28 < Eridius> or can I say new(type.StringType)?
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20:28 < Eridius> well no, I don't need a *reflect.Type.  hmm
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20:35 < Eridius> if I have a reflect.Value, how do I get the particular
concrete value type back (e.g.  reflect.StringValue)?
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20:36 < KirkMcDonald> Eridius: A type assertion: foo.(*reflect.StringValue)
20:37 < Eridius> oh hey, Value is an interface.  How'd I miss that?
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20:48 < Eridius> to answer my earlier question: it looks like I can say
new(reflect.StringType) to get a reflect.Type that works just fine
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20:53 < Eridius> hrm, strings.Map() can remove characters, but it can't map
one char -> multiple chars
20:54 < dho> a map isn't a one-to-many relationship
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20:54 < Eridius> dho: it's also not a one-to-none relationship
20:54 < Eridius> I just thought it was odd that it can remove chars but not
add them
20:54 < KirkMcDonald> You can make a thing to a slice of things.
20:54 < KirkMcDonald> s/make/map/
20:54 < Eridius> strings.Map maps runes in the string
20:55 < skelterjohn> map[char]map[char]bool
20:55 < skelterjohn> map a char to a set of chars
20:55 < Eridius> not that type of map
20:57 < Eridius> d'oh, regexp.ReplaceAllString doesn't provide
backreferences.  That's annoying
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21:23 < Eridius> whoa, I'm getting a wacky error
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21:24 < Eridius> bogus syntax errors
21:24 < Eridius> but if I extract my func() literal and assign it to a
variable, and put that variable in place of the func() literal, it works
21:25 < dho> context?
21:26 * Eridius is writing some unit tests
21:26 * Eridius is trying to extract this into a snippet
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21:51 < Eridius> dho: http://gopaste.org/view/hY7yW
21:52 < skelterjohn> that compiles for me
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21:53 < Eridius> I get syntax error on else
21:53 < Eridius> and if I delete the else, I get syntax error on for
21:53 < Eridius> this is on the latest release
21:53 < skelterjohn> else doesn't appear in that snippet
21:53 < Eridius> oh I had deleted it
21:53 < Eridius> ok, I get syntax error on for
21:53 < Eridius> and if you add else {} in there, I get syntax error on else
insetad
21:53 < Eridius> *instead
21:53 < skelterjohn> i updated two days ago
21:53 < Eridius> what happens if I update while I have dirty files?
21:54 < skelterjohn> i put an else in and it still works fine
21:54 < skelterjohn> well, compiles fine, anyway
21:54 * Eridius updates to tip
21:55 < Eridius> d'oh, it compiles now
21:55 * Eridius just wasted a bunch of effort reducing something that's already
been fixed >_<
21:56 < skelterjohn> <3
21:56 * Eridius wonders what the issue was?
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22:05 < pure_x01> hi there i get a segmentation fault on TCPConn.Close
http://pastebin.com/m7fb74fad ..  any recomendations?
22:09 < jhh> looks like you're trying to dereference a nil pointer
22:10 < pure_x01> jhh: how can you tell
22:10 < jhh> by "SIGSEGV: segmentation violation - Faulting address: 0x0"
22:11 < pure_x01> jhh: thanx alot ..  good to know cause it is probably
going to happen again :-)
22:12 < pure_x01> jhh: when looking at the code i can now see that it is the
case
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22:12 < pure_x01> jhh: are there any plans to be able to detect a nullptr
error since that is probably one of the most common programming mistakes ?
22:13 < Eridius> when I create a change and assign
golang-dev@googlegroups.com as the reviewer, an email is automatically sent,
right?  Or do I have to explicitly tell it to send mail?
22:13 < pure_x01> jhh: i mean with an easier to understand error text.
Would probably simplify for users
22:13 < Eridius> if anybody is interested, here's fnmatch:
http://codereview.appspot.com/186111
22:13 <+iant> Eridius: you have to use hg mail to send the mail, I think
22:14 < Eridius> is that the same thing as "Public+Mail Comments" in the web
interface?
22:14 < jhh> pure_x01: I don't have the slightest idea.  Maybe ask somebody
more involved, like iant.
22:14 <+iant> I think that "Publish+Mail Comments" is more for reviewers,
but in truth I'm not sure; it may be the same
22:15 * Eridius really hates how it keeps the change in the local working tree as
dirty changes
22:15 < jhh> Eridius: I tried it, I think it worked.
22:15 < jhh> at least the mail was sent.  :)
22:15 < pure_x01> iant: are there any plans to give a more userfriendly
output when you get a null pointer error since that is a very common programming
mistake and it would help newbies?
22:15 <+iant> pure_x01: if you write a patch to change the error text we
would certainly look at it; I don't know that anybody is planning on changing it
22:16 < Eridius> jhh: mail was sent when you submitted a changelist, or am I
misinterpreting what you're saying?
22:16 < pure_x01> iant: sure i can probably take a look at doing that.
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22:18 < jhh> Eridius: I uploaded code, replied to comments and then hit the
"Public+Mail Comments" link and everything was send to the specified recipients.
22:18 < Eridius> ah ok
22:18 * Eridius just ran `hg mail 186111`
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22:19 < jhh> Eridius: tell me if it does publish your replies also
22:19 < Eridius> ok
22:20 < jhh> i find it all a bit confusing, too
22:20 * Eridius really wishes it was just handled the way git.git handles
submissions - create local commits, send patches to an email list.
22:22 < pure_x01> i have read alot about go the past month(s) but this is
the first time i start programming in it and i must say that i really enjoy it.
Coming from a Java background it is refreshing to have such good compile and
startup times
22:22 < skelterjohn> compile times were never an issue for me with java,
since eclipse compiles in the background ;)
22:23 < skelterjohn> and my programs take so long to run that the startup
time doesn't matter so much
22:23 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has joined #go-nuts
22:23 < skelterjohn> but java's type system is driving me INSANE right now
22:25 < KirkMcDonald> That's a feature.
22:25 < jhh> heh
22:25 < skelterjohn> i really think that it's just wrong about me not being
able to cast one of these types to the other
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22:26 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: ever worked with maven?
22:26 < skelterjohn> is she the one who teaches typing?
22:26 < Eridius> no that's mavis beacon
22:26 < Eridius> alternately: mario
22:26 < skelterjohn> ah, not that one either, then.
22:27 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: no its her fried
22:27 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: that teaches english
22:27 < skelterjohn> is this a really roundabout zinger?
22:28 < skelterjohn> perhaps my english needs work: i don't get it
22:28 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: no my english..  i dont spell so good..  and
typing fast does not help
22:29 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: maven is a build tool that is extremly
advanced compared to anything on the market on any platform but build times are
terrible
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22:30 < skelterjohn> depending on how you define "advanced", ok.  but no,
never heard of it
22:31 < jhh> skelterjohn: "Convention over Configuration" you should like it
;)
22:31 < KirkMcDonald> (Personally I would expect build times to be a factor
taken into consideration by any "advanced" build tool...)
22:31 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: advanced as in advanced dependency management
and very good extensibillity.
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22:32 < pure_x01> KirkMcDonald: but git is an advanced cm system but still
extremly fast
22:32 < KirkMcDonald> ...  okay?
22:33 < skelterjohn> pure_x01: saying "but" implies you disagree, though
your statement supported his opinion
22:34 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: I failed
22:34 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: to read the entire sentence before replying
22:34 < pure_x01> KirkMcDonald: so ignore what i replied.  I agree with you
22:37 * jhh concludes advanced building tools should be programmed in C. ;)
22:38 < pure_x01> jhh: or in go?
22:38 < skelterjohn> ?
22:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/69B6Q by [Evan Shaw] in go/misc/kate/ -- kate:
Highlighting improvements
22:39 < jhh> Linus would probably call you full of bullshit.  ;)
22:39 < pure_x01> the important thing is to do as much as possible in
paralell
22:39 < pure_x01> :-)
22:41 < pure_x01> java is very fast the problem is that it is easy to get
lazy and loose a little bit of performance here and there and then you get a slow
system.  It will be nice when go can reach java's performance one day
22:41 * skelterjohn thinks that "go foo()" should have a return type of "chan X"
when foo() has a return type of "X"
22:41 < jhh> was trying to refer to Linus Torvalds trolling about git
22:42 < skelterjohn> or maybe type "func() X"
22:42 < jhh> skelterjohn: that's a nice idea, but "foo := go bar()" looks a
bit weird.
22:42 < skelterjohn> make it easy to join goroutines
22:43 < skelterjohn> jhh: sure, but so does setting up a mini-infrastructure
ot get bar's return
22:43 < jhh> but at least it rounds up the ugly thing of just forgetting
about the return type
22:44 < skelterjohn> so, "x = go bar()()" would be the same as "x = bar()"
:)
22:44 < jhh> oO
22:44 < skelterjohn> if the return type for go becomes the func, the 2nd
idea
22:44 < skelterjohn> rather than the chan
22:45 * LuitvD is playing with the image package
22:45 < LuitvD> can an Image be initialized to anything other than
completely transparent?
22:45 < jhh> you mean you run it with "x = go bar()" and wait for it and get
the return value by "x()"?
22:46 < damjan> skelterjohn: can't you make your own wrapper for that?
22:46 < skelterjohn> yes
22:46 < skelterjohn> damjan: sure, but it takes typing
22:46 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit []
22:46 < damjan> what's the difference with x = bar(); then?
22:46 < skelterjohn> damjan: and different typing depending on what bar's
parameters are
22:47 < skelterjohn> what's the same about it?
22:47 < damjan> [23:50] <jhh> you mean you run it with "x = go bar()"
and wait for it and get the return value by "x()"?
22:47 < skelterjohn> caveat: this suggestion will never happen.  just
thinking out loud
22:47 < skelterjohn> x = bar() waits for bar to complete
22:47 < damjan> this seems to me exactly the same as calling the function
22:47 < skelterjohn> with x = go bar() and then later x(), you can do things
in between
22:48 < damjan> ah so x() waits
22:48 < skelterjohn> like, the rest of the program and call x() at the end
22:48 < skelterjohn> or defer it
22:48 < damjan> there was a name for that
22:48 < LuitvD> that's what channels are for, isn't it?
22:48 < skelterjohn> you could do it with a channel, too
22:48 < skelterjohn> i think that sometimes a thunk's syntax is a bit nicer
22:51 < skelterjohn> though in this case it's just my aesthetics...  using
chans wherever possible is clearly the go way so that would be it
22:53 < damjan> skelterjohn: it's something like lazy evaluation
22:53 < damjan> haskell has it, it seems D has it too
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22:53 < skelterjohn> i call them "Future"s in
http://code.google.com/p/goconc/
22:54 < skelterjohn> what would be sweet is if you could say "foo(go a(), go
b())"
22:54 < skelterjohn> and have a and b execute in parallel, but the call to
foo wait for both of them
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22:55 < skelterjohn> but that is asking a bit much, i think
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22:58 < jessta> skelterjohn: you could do that by wrapping it up in a
function the takes a function pointer
22:58 < skelterjohn> as i did in goconc
22:59 < skelterjohn> i understand that i am not suggesting new functionality
22:59 < skelterjohn> just new sugar
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23:00 < jessta> but how often would you do such a thing?
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23:03 < cc_br> hi all
23:03 < cc_br> is there some type of "using" directive in go so I dont need
to re-type the package name every time I want to use a function of it?
23:04 < jessta> nope
23:04 < skelterjohn> jessta: don't know - haven't written anything serious
in go yet :)
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23:04 < skelterjohn> well, i made gomatrix, but that doesn't have serious
concurrency
23:04 < Eridius> cc_br: you could alias the package to a 1-char name
23:04 < jessta> cc_br: namespaces are a honky great idea
23:04 < Eridius> import P "path"
23:04 < skelterjohn> cc_br: import . "path"
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23:05 < skelterjohn> naming it '.' means you don't have to identify the
package
23:06 < Ycros> if you use shortcuts like that, and I ever have to read your
code, I will be angry
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23:06 < cc_br> ok, so I will not use them =)
23:06 < cc_br> but thanks for the answers
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23:08 < LuitvD> whoops, split
23:08 < cc_br> I will use the shortcut skelterjohn suggested me to code, and
do a s/shortcut/actual_package_name/ after that
23:08 < cc_br> will ease coding a lot.  thx :-D
23:08 -!- Fraeon [n=kzer-za@e212-246-65-153.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote
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23:08 < LuitvD> does anyone know how to make a vector of, for example,
floats?
23:09 < skelterjohn> you won't be able to find/replace a blank
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23:09 < skelterjohn> LuitvD: you can use containers/Vector, but it won't be
as fast as it could be until there are generics
23:09 < cc_br> I will use an uncommon character like
23:09 < cc_br> import $ "package"
23:10 < Eridius> cc_br: and how is that going to solve anything?
23:10 < cc_br> Eridius: just to reduce my typin'
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23:10 < skelterjohn> can you use $ as an identifier?
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23:11 < cc_br> didn't test, if not will find another char
23:11 < cc_br> will do a quick test here, hang on
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23:16 < cc_br> Funny, i've tried $, #, %, a theta θ, and ohf***, none of
them worked
23:16 < cc_br> but import P "path" worked.
23:16 < pure_x01> In Go is SIGSEGV: segmentation violation allways
considered a null pointer error ?
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23:17 < jessta> cc_br: learn to copy paste
23:17 <+iant> pure_x01: a null pointer is certainly the most common cause of
a SIGSEGV, but it's not the only cause; you should be able to check whether the
memory address is 0
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23:18 < skelterjohn> I'm surprised that θ didn't work
23:18 < cc_br> skelterjohn: I've tested with a capital theta now ϴ and it
worked :)
23:19 < pure_x01> iant: i did a simple test and i got the address: Faulting
address: 0x20 http://pastebin.com/m64143ea2
23:19 < jhh> do you have a greek keyboard layout or how does that reduce
your typing?
23:19 < cc_br> skelterjohn: it seems that the first letter of the identifier
needs to be capitalized
23:19 <+iant> pure_x01: hmmm, that's true, the address need not be zero
23:20 <+iant> maybe the message could say something like "probably a null
pointer dereference"
23:20 < skelterjohn> lower case θ works fine for me
23:20 < cc_br> jhh: the theta was just a test
23:20 < skelterjohn> jhh: I have ctrl-option-space switch me to a greek
keyboard :)
23:20 < pure_x01> iant: sounds like a good idea..
23:21 < cc_br> skelterjohn: hmm, maybe I should do an update of my go source
code, I've compiled mine 4 days ago.
23:21 < jhh> skelterjohn: you're using greek letters in code on a regular
basis?
23:21 < skelterjohn> for some statistics stuff, yeah
23:21 < jhh> skelterjohn: I suppose you're half american, half greek ;)
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23:22 < skelterjohn> no, half computer scientist, half statistician (=
machine learning ist)
23:22 < pure_x01> iant: the error text is emmitted from signal.c and there
is version for each supported os and platform and i have only access to Linux x86
and amd64 ..  so i guess only submit patches for the platforms that i can verify
on ?
23:23 < jhh> skelterjohn: me too.  always used the english transcription
23:23 < skelterjohn> now that go accepts unicode, it was nice to label the
mean μ :)
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23:24 <+iant> pure_x01: change all the targets if you can; you should be
able to build them to make sure that they compile, even if you can't test the
results; thanks
23:25 < jhh> pure_x01: I can try darwin
23:25 < pure_x01> iant: sure i will do that
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23:26 < pure_x01> bed time now..  thanx everybody
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23:27 < cc_br> i am going to sleep too, got to work tomorrow.  thk for all
the help
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23:30 < Eridius> ugh codereview fail.  I cannot download a changelist I
created on another computer to this one, and make it a local change
23:30 < jhh> The curse of CET...
23:30 < Eridius> which means I cannot hg sync and re-upload
23:31 <+iant> Eridius: hg clpatch
23:31 <+iant> should download the CL to your computer
23:31 < Eridius> iant: the changelist is 2 months old.  The file in question
has been modified, and clpatch rejects it
23:31 <+iant> ugh
23:31 <+iant> I guess you could update back to the old date, apply clpatch,
and update to tip
23:31 * Eridius reiterates his annoyance at codereview.  Why can't it generate
commits and trade those around?
23:31 <+iant> maybe
23:32 < Eridius> hrm
23:32 < Eridius> well no, I can't
23:32 < Eridius> because I have local changes
23:32 < Eridius> due to pending changelists
23:32 <+iant> well, you could do it in a different working tree
23:32 < Eridius> and since those aren't stored as a commit, I can't revert
my history
23:32 * Eridius hates on codereview
23:32 < Eridius> why doesn't it keep local commits for the changelists?
23:32 <+iant> I don't know; could we get the same workflow if it worked that
way?
23:32 < Eridius> I don't see why not
23:33 <+iant> it's not my area of expertise
23:33 < Eridius> keep changelists as a series of patches layered on top of
history, the way quilt works in git
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23:33 * Eridius wishes it was at least using git, then he'd have the knowledge to
fix this stuff
23:33 <+iant> that one wasn't our choice
23:34 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@p578ED871.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit []
23:34 < skelterjohn> everyone should just use RCS and diff and quit whining
so much
23:34 <+iant> hey, when I started working on gcc, it used numbered emacs
backup files
23:34 <+iant> switching to RCS was a big step
23:34 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-10-131.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit
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23:34 < Ycros> lol
23:35 < Ycros> iant: and is your preferred tool now git?
23:35 <+iant> I actually haven't used git much at all
23:35 < Ycros> okay.  I don't like it much
23:35 <+iant> I'm not happy with any of the tools at present, but I'm not
enough of an expert to complain well
23:35 * Eridius prefers git over all other DVCSs
23:36 < Ycros> iant: just vaguely curious what you would have chosen if it
had been up to you
23:36 < damjan> git is great
23:36 < Ycros> Eridius: I prefer bzr
23:36 <+iant> This is what I want: http://www.airs.com/blog/archives/222
23:36 -!- mward [n=mward@chml01.drwholdings.com] has quit [Read error: 110
(Connection timed out)]
23:36 <+iant> I would probably have picked git for Go, since it seems to be
the most popular these days
23:37 -!- plexdev [n=plexdev@arthur.espians.com] has quit [Remote closed the
connection]
23:38 < Ycros> iant: sounds like you want a lot of cherrypicking
23:38 < Ycros> darcs is _awesome_ for that
23:38 <+iant> I haven't looked at darcs at all
23:38 < Eridius> darcs is interesting, but not terribly practical
23:38 < Ycros> iant: it makes me sad that people pick git because it's the
popular choice, because I don't think it's that great
23:38 < Eridius> Ycros: why don't you like it?
23:39 < Ycros> Eridius: in my previous job darcs was the primary dvcs used,
it was practical
23:39 < damjan> ...  or better what do you like more
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23:39 < adiabatic> Ycros: What do you like more than git, and why?
23:39 < damjan> i used darcs 1 ..  it wasn't better than git and the
community vanished then
23:40 -!- Cyanure [n=cyanure@81-65-198-68.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote
closed the connection]
23:40 < Ycros> bzr.  It has a nicer user interface (ie.  I find it a lot
simpler and straightforeward to use, I dived right into bzr - git took me a while
to wrap my head around)
23:40 < Ycros> plus bzr has a neat plugin system, and a whole ton of useful
plugins
23:41 < Ycros> damjan: the haskell community still mostly uses darcs
23:41 < Eridius> git is confusing if you try and think about it like other
VCSs, but once you stop trying to cram it into the shape left behind by other VCSs
you'll handle it much better
23:41 < damjan> the 2.0 branch should be better, but it lost momentum
23:41 < Eridius> Ycros: yes, the fact that the haskell community still
mostly uses darcs is rather annoying any time I have to deal with one of those
repos
23:42 < Ycros> Eridius: "git is confusing if you try and think about it like
other VCSs" this is exactly why I don't like it
23:42 < Eridius> ack, iant, I cloned my repo, backdated to a known good
revision, clpatch'd the changelist, and hit `hg sync`...  and I get a python
exception
23:43 <+iant> sigh, sorry about all this
23:43 < Ycros> but the fact is, bzr can do everything git can - but I don't
have to wrap my head around it
23:43 < Eridius> Ycros: once you learn how to treat git like git instead of
like other VCSs, you'll learn to love it.  Git is the most powerful and flexible
of any VCS I've ever used
23:43 < Ycros> so why is git so different/hard?
23:43 < Ycros> there's no reason for it
23:43 < Eridius> it's not different because it was made to be different,
it's different because it was built without any regard for trying to ape other
systems
23:44 < Ycros> once again, "bzr can do everything git can - but I don't have
to wrap my head around it"
23:44 < Eridius> iant: ok, I just tweaked my hgrc to point to the original
go's codereview.py, and now it works
23:44 < Ycros> bzr has more intuitive commands
23:44 < Eridius> Ycros: bzr is the one DVCS I have the least familiarity
with, but my impression is that it's not as flexible as git
23:44 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@24.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Client Quit]
23:46 < Ycros> I mean, I don't mind too much, since I can work with git
repos using bzr-git
23:46 < skelterjohn> i know how to use CVS and subversion, and now with go I
can use mercurial
23:46 < skelterjohn> I am slow :(
23:47 < damjan> I don't buy the "git is hard" ethos...  for me it was easier
than cvs, svn or hg
23:48 < damjan> and darcs 1
23:48 < Eridius> ok, when I do `hg sync` and get a merge conflict, and I fix
it, how do I mark it as fixed?
23:48 < Ycros> damjan: I picked up bzr and darcs easily, git was hard
23:49 < Ycros> plus i know a bunch of other people (whom I consider to be
much better programmers than me) that also had the same experience
23:49 < Ycros> I'm not very familiar with hg though, I haven't really tried
learning it
23:49 < skelterjohn> Eridius: I think "hg merge" but that aspect of hg
always threw me off a bit - had to figure it out each time it came up
23:50 < damjan> well Iam a bad programmer, and with little experience at
that..  and git just came easy
23:50 < Eridius> hrm I just did `hg upload ###` to modify the changelist
23:50 < damjan> :)
23:50 < skelterjohn> so the moral of the story is: git is different, so if
you are used to the status quo, it will be tough to pick up
23:50 -!- mward_ [n=mward@136.sub-75-207-168.myvzw.com] has joined #go-nuts
23:51 < Eridius> how do I abandon an issue?
23:51 < Ycros> but once again, when it comes to hg, I have bzr-hg to work
with hg repos
23:51 -!- mward [n=mward@136.sub-75-207-168.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 104
(Connection reset by peer)]
23:51 < Ycros> I think the only repos I can't work with easily in bzr is
darcs or monotone
23:51 < Ycros> but then I haven't looked
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23:51 <+iant> Eridius: hg change --delete
23:52 * Eridius just clicked the (X) button in the web interface.  Is that
appropriate, or should I actually delete it?
23:52 <+iant> I have no idea what that does
23:52 < Eridius> it closes it
23:56 < Eridius> ugh, just got another python exception when trying to
submit a new change
23:56 < Eridius> apparently if it has an error parsing the change list, it
fucks up because it gave the wrong number of arguments to the prompt() function
23:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/69O1L by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/ -- Add 'bench' target to makefiles.
23:56 < LuitvD> does anyone know how to make a vector of, for example,
floats?  or my own type?
23:57 < Eridius> LuitvD: you can use the vector.Vector class, as long as
you're ok with treating everythign as interface{}
23:57 < LuitvD> I don't understand interface{} I guess
23:57 < skelterjohn> container/Vector
23:57 < Ycros> Eridius: are these bugs in the extension that's bundled with
go, or hg itself?
23:58 -!- Venom_X_ [n=pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts
23:58 < Eridius> Ycros: codereview.py
23:58 < skelterjohn> LuitvD: an interface contains a pointer to a struct or
other base type
23:58 < Ycros> mmm
23:58 < skelterjohn> to get a float out of an interface{}, you can say
theInterface.(float)
23:58 < skelterjohn> called a type assertion
23:58 < Ycros> Eridius: what line was that on?
23:58 < Eridius> Ycros: sadly I already cleared my history.  But it was a
call to prompt() about error parsing change list
23:59 < Eridius> 591
23:59 < LuitvD> how do I convert a interface {} object back to what I put
into it?
23:59 < Eridius> LuitvD: see what skelterjohn just said
23:59 < skelterjohn> just told you,, LuitvD
--- Log closed Wed Jan 13 00:00:12 2010