--- Log opened Fri Jan 15 00:00:46 2010
00:03 * araujo liking the type system of Go
00:04 < araujo> though still figuring out a bit the go routines, any more
resources about it around?
00:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6hx9x by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/time/ -- fix
+0000 time zones.
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01:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6hG1T by [Nigel Tao] in go/src/pkg/exp/draw/
-- Fix s/Width/Height/ typo in draw.go.
01:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6hG28 by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- be more
explicit about initialization of embedded fields.
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02:06 < trevor_> Is the go talk given at stanford available online?
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02:19 < skelterjohn> the slides are
http://golang.org/doc/talks/go_talk-20100112.html
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02:38 < trevor> skelterjohn: I saw those, thats how I came to know of the
talk
02:39 < trevor> I'd like to see the talk itself
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03:05 < trevor> Anyone think it would be useful to have a channel that sends
one type but receives a different one?
03:05 < trevor> Its a use case I've been hitting
03:06 < trevor> I commonly pass a chan to a function to send data to the
function and I need a different kind of data back
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03:07 < trevor> Say the function runs a computation on a set of numbers and
all I need back is a bool
03:08 < trevor> bool <-chan <-[]int
03:08 < trevor> Chan receives []int and sends bool
03:08 < trevor> Ugly syntax, but maybe theres something better
03:09 < damjan> trevor: ? one go routine sends on the channel, the other has
to read the same thing
03:09 < damjan> trevor: you would need another channel for the bool
03:09 < trevor> I know
03:10 < trevor> Thats what I'm doing now
03:10 < trevor> The computation function is the sender.  It knows it can
only send bools
03:11 < trevor> The caller function can only send []int
03:11 < trevor> Just a thought, now that I think of it I realize it doesn't
make much sense
03:13 < trevor> On a related note, do you think it is "cleaner" for an api
to take a struct containing two chan (data feeder chan and response chan) or just
the two chans themselves?
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09:46 < dagle> Hmmm.
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09:46 < dagle> Is really ArrayCopy needed when we have copy?
09:46 < dagle> Don't they do the same?
09:46 < dagle> (in reflect)
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10:02 < buidangchung> hi all
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10:07 < dagle> hi chungbd
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10:41 < vegai> http://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=ffbf0900a2
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10:44 < jhh> vegai: what's hw?
10:46 < jhh> raw hardware?
10:50 < vegai> that's what it claims
10:51 < vegai> 386, I guess
10:52 < vegai> perhaps they'll about to write a kernel on it :P
10:52 < vegai> oh, oh.  I guess they did already :P
10:57 < jhh> they did?
10:58 < jhh> that's getting interesting
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11:01 < vegai> jhh: that thing's already a sort of a kernel, no?
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11:02 < jhh> yeah probably, I wouldn't know how you could run a go program
without.
11:02 < jhh> But I guess a kernel needs more...
11:05 < jhh> did you already try it?
11:05 < vegai> oh dear no
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11:06 < jhh> why is that such a horrible thought?
11:08 < vegai> well, no reason I suppose.
11:09 < vegai> just that I couldn't be arsed, I guess :)
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11:15 < jhh> what's bochs?
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11:16 < jhh> some IA 32 emulator
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11:23 < LuitvD> hi
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14:41 < LuitvD> it's silent...
14:42 < LuitvD> too silent
14:43 < reggna> Its a trap!  :O
14:43 < reggna> *'
14:45 < LuitvD> is it?
14:46 < LuitvD> it's a Trace/breakpoint trap, what I'm getting with Go on my
VPS
14:50 < LuitvD> anyone else having trouble with the net package?
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14:59 < jhh> net.Dial?  There seems to be discussion on the ML
15:00 < jhh> there's work going on:
http://codereview.appspot.com/183111/show
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15:01 < LuitvD> my desktop does that
15:02 < LuitvD> but my VPS has issues with TLS
15:02 < LuitvD> the asn1 package, for instance, won't gotest
15:02 < LuitvD> make test fails 50% of the time in the packages asn1,
archive/tar, big and many others
15:03 < LuitvD> and my own properly working application from my laptop does
the same on my VPS
15:04 < LuitvD> dho: are you there?
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15:11 < LuitvD> dho: any news from russ?
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15:37 < randomiser> Hey, looking at the revision logs it seems commit
ffbf0900a2 has added (preliminary) support for execution of Go code on in a
bare-metal envrionment
15:37 < randomiser> Is this true?
15:38 < randomiser> It looks like its just a demo, however if so, this could
be *really* cool
15:42 < jhh> yeah
15:42 < jhh> just working on an emulator yet
15:46 < randomiser> thats awesome
15:47 < randomiser> I was hoping that this would happen
15:48 < randomiser> how are goroutines handles at the moment?
15:48 < LuitvD> bare-metal?  what's the definition of that in this use?
15:48 < randomiser> aka there's no operating system or virtual machine.  The
processor starts up, and starts executing your program
15:48 < LuitvD> nice :)
15:49 < LuitvD> for kernel-writing and such
15:49 < randomiser> Normally in an embedded setup, small
microcontrollers/processors which don't need a full operating system
15:49 < randomiser> no kernel, just your program.  Aka the kernel is 'just a
program' which happens to be able to do complicated stuff
15:50 * LuitvD only has experience with embedded C and ARM assembly language
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15:51 < randomiser> embedded C -> embedded Go
15:51 < LuitvD> :)
15:51 < LuitvD> would be awesome
15:51 < randomiser> s/would/will be awesome hopefully
15:52 < LuitvD> goroutines in ARMv5
15:53 < LuitvD> v4 even
15:53 < LuitvD> (that's the ARM core I can program on in Assembly Language)
15:53 < LuitvD> ARM7TDMI (ARMv4T core)
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15:55 < randomiser> aah the good times.  I like the arm achitecture a lot
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15:55 < randomiser> also Atmel's AVR (please someone make a Go compiler for
these, once bare-metal execution has improved)
16:00 < LuitvD> http://code.google.com/p/luitvd/wiki/LPC214x
16:00 < LuitvD> made a start with a hardware library
16:01 < LuitvD> made that quite a while ago
16:01 < dho> LuitvD: I don't think we're going to be able to figure it out
:\
16:01 < dho> the patch that I have *should* work, but it doesn't
16:01 < dho> I think it'sa Xen bug
16:01 < LuitvD> the patch you made me use already?
16:02 < dho> yeah
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16:03 < LuitvD> it's weird that software that works properly on my laptop
doesn't want to run on my VPS about 50% of the time
16:04 < LuitvD> russ couldn't figure it out either?
16:04 < dho> It's difficult
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17:15 < Vova> hm
17:16 < Vova> how do i allocate [][]byte with make?
17:17 < Vova> i need to loop over the array?
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17:17 < Vova> nvm x:
17:21 < jhh> how did you do it?  [x][y]byte?
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18:42 < skelterjohn> morning
18:44 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6kt1O by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/test/ --
Test evaluation of range variables.
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19:31 < dho> quiet day.
19:32 <+iant> they'll hear you.....
19:33 < dho> heh.
19:33 < dho> so hot in the office.
19:33 < dho> iant: you don't happen to have experience with so-called ergo
keyboards do you?
19:33 <+iant> I do not; for the last 11 years I've only used a laptop
19:34 * dho is trying to find people using the kinesis ergo keyboard
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19:34 < dho> i liked the microsoft ergo pro 4000 quite a bit, but i have
really bad luck with those
19:34 < dho> (= i spill things on them)
19:35 <+iant> see, if you used a laptop you would be really careful not to
spill anything on your keyboard
19:36 < dagle> dho: 5 of my friends use them.
19:37 < dagle> kinesis ergo that is.
19:37 < dho> dagle: the one with the depressed keys?
19:37 < dho> heh
19:38 * dho imagine keys committing suicide
19:38 * dho imagines being able to spell properly, too
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19:38 < dagle> If you mean the advantage keyboards then yes.
19:39 < ash_> what is the 'proper' way to update go?  I had it working, then
ran hg pull and hg update release which gave conflicts for some reason, then it
failed to build, i never did figure out how to resolve conflicts in hg...
19:39 < dho> dagle: i guess that's a testament to them -- how resilient are
they to people like me who have messy desks that get soda|water spilled
periodically?
19:39 < dho> :\
19:39 < dho> ash_: sounds like you had local changes
19:39 <+iant> ash_: I think that when you have conflicts you have to edit
the files yourself; there will be markers like <<< around the conflicting
parts
19:40 < ash_> a clean checkout resolved the issue, but just curious
19:40 < ash_> i don't remember messing with any of the core go files...
19:40 < ash_> okay, i'll read the man on hg if it happens again
19:40 < dho> you can also hg revert --all if you haven't made changes
19:40 < dho> hg doesn't keep track of conflicts like subversion
19:42 < ash_> k, thanks
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19:46 < dagle> dho: Question sent, most of them are drinking beer atm.
19:49 < dho> hehe, thanks
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19:50 < dho> considering i've spent probably $150 on the microsoft keyboards
(having had bad luck with 3), i figure if i'm dropping over twice that on a
keyboard, it should not be easy to follow that fate.
19:51 < skelterjohn> $150 over your lifetime?
19:51 < skelterjohn> or in the past two weeks
19:52 < skelterjohn> I always try to get the simplest, lowest featured
keyboard i can
19:52 < dho> over my lifetime
19:52 < dho> skelterjohn: those hurt my hands
19:52 < skelterjohn> try raising or lowering your chair
19:52 < dho> doesn't matter
19:52 < skelterjohn> i find if i have the keyboard at a bad height relative
to my posture, i'll get carpal tunnel pain
19:52 < skelterjohn> i also like arms on the chair
19:53 < dho> also it's really easy to change my keyboard, it's really hard
to change my typing style
19:53 < dagle> kinesis are really nice to write on.
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19:54 < dagle> We even have keyboard/svorak nerdgroup in my town.  :)
19:55 < skelterjohn> some things i just feel like, you shouldn't have a club
for
19:55 < skelterjohn> what are the meetings like?
19:55 < dagle> Hehe.
19:55 < dagle> Beer?
19:55 < skelterjohn> well i guess that works
19:55 < dagle> Thats about it.
19:55 < skelterjohn> and comparing WPM
19:55 < dho> i wish i had the time to switch to dvorak
19:56 < skelterjohn> i tried to in college for a bit
19:56 < skelterjohn> then the magic marker wore off the keys and i couldn't
remember where things were :)
19:56 < dagle> There is a homepage about configs and setups and a
irc-channel.
19:56 < dho> yeah
19:56 < dho> i can't learn over a weekend though
19:56 < dho> and i already type >100wpm in qwerty
19:57 < dagle> I used an image of svorak as a wallpaper.
19:57 < dagle> That helped me.
19:58 < dagle> Should be more painful to not rember than to look at the
picture also.
19:58 < dagle> So looking shouldn't be easy.
19:58 < skelterjohn> is svorak different than dvorak?  i thought you made a
typo at first
19:58 < dagle> svorak = swedish dvorak.
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19:58 < skelterjohn> heh
19:59 < dagle> We have åäö.
19:59 < dagle> Need to fit them too.
19:59 < dho> deadkeys don't work?
19:59 < dagle> We want to put them right.
20:00 < dagle> They should be on the left hand.
20:00 * dho has a standalone pchw kernel building that says hello world.
20:00 < dagle> Nice.
20:00 < dho> considering making it so that syscalls and ipc all happens over
channels
20:00 < dho> you'd do e.g.  foo := NewSyschan()
20:01 < dho> foo becomes a channel that you write to for performing a
syscall, read from to get value
20:01 < Vova> how can i remove a value from map?
20:02 < dho> Vova: explained in effective go
20:02 < dho> take a look
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20:03 < dagle> But it's not querky to speak directly with the hardware in
go?
20:03 < dho> Not doing that yet.
20:03 < dagle> Ok.
20:03 < dho> It's still just a standalone pchw
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20:04 < dho> so basically I have the xv6 bootloader code and pkg/runtime
with just pchw
20:04 < dagle> Yeah.  But It could be really cool.
20:04 < skelterjohn> what is a pchw
20:04 < dho> skelterjohn: go on raw hardware
20:04 < dagle> skelterjohn: pc hardware.
20:04 < skelterjohn> i meant, what does it stand for
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20:04 < skelterjohn> i inferred what you said from context
20:05 < dho> dagle: once we get memory set up, i'm planning on starting APs
and seeing if I can get it to schedule across them
20:05 < dagle> Nice.
20:05 < dho> also going to get long mode in there somewhere
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20:05 < dagle> Would be nice to see something at least.
20:06 < dho> what do you mean?
20:06 < dho> it can already print; pchw has a text display driver
20:06 < dho> though that's one of the easiest parts to write
20:07 < dho> just write to 0xb80000 i believe
20:07 < dho> give or take a 0
20:07 * skelterjohn just realized that dagle answered the question: "pc hardware"
20:07 < skelterjohn> heh
20:07 < dho> lol
20:07 < dho> was wondering when you'd catch that
20:07 * skelterjohn was getting annoyed at being ignored
20:08 < dagle> dho: It's one 0 less.
20:08 < dho> yep
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20:08 < dho> www.bitbucket.org/dhobsd/goos/
20:09 < dagle> But I mean: processes, filesystem...  just a small kernel
that could be used.  Not good and no drivers maybe but still.
20:09 < dho> I'm fairly confident that we can get vmware working
20:10 < dho> venkatesh has experience with VM and scheduling
20:10 < dho> i have experience with drivers
20:10 < dho> so
20:11 < dagle> I have built some toy kernels in C so I have som experiance
but not real experiance.
20:12 < dho> runtime will need a few changes
20:12 < dagle> Yeah.
20:12 < dho> like not being able to call into the scheduler in interrupt
handlers
20:13 < dho> shouldn't be too difficult thought
20:13 < dho> though*
20:15 < Vova> dho: thanks :]
20:15 < dho> np
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20:38 < Vova> AStar path finder - http://gopaste.org/view/F7zpb , maze
example&solved - http://gopaste.org/view/P3bXH
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20:43 < Vova> with little cleanup http://gopaste.org/view/2tuqx , if anyone
finds a mistake or way to make it faster please tell me cause iam not sure its
perfect
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20:48 < pure_x01> hi ..  how is it possible to wrap a TCPConn in a
bufio.Reader ..  i can see anywhere that TCPConn includes the Reader interface ?
20:49 <+iant> pure_x01: you mean io.Reader, I assume; that only requires a
Read method, and TCPConn has one
20:49 < dho> pure_x01: What does the Reader interface require for something
to be considered a Reader?
20:49 * dho shakes fist at iant
20:49 <+iant> ha ha sorry
20:49 < dho> :)
20:50 < pure_x01> i thought that it had to include the interface in the type
delcaration to be a valid Reader
20:50 < dho> no
20:50 < pure_x01> oh i see..  is that so for all interfaces?
20:50 <+iant> give a man a match and he will be warm for a night, light a
man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
20:50 < dho> an interface only lists a set of methods that must be attached
to a type for that type to be considered that interface
20:50 < dho> iant: indeed :)
20:50 < pure_x01> oh nice
20:55 < pure_x01> when using gofmt it sometimes ignore that i have wrapped
some lines that are long even if they are indented with one tab ..  but other
lines that are wrapped are still that way . is this a feature or a bug?  ..
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21:08 < pure_x01> why does not this code fail.  i accidentially forgot to
hold a reference to each object allocated in a loop but they seem to live on.
http://gopaste.org/view/3AFoc#LC11 ..
21:08 < skelterjohn> why would you think something wouldn't live on?
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21:12 < skelterjohn> I don't know much about the library you are using, but
I imagine that Start() method will spawn a goroutine down in there somewhere
21:12 < skelterjohn> and that goroutine will have a reference to the
datastructure
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21:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l1Sx by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: 386 FPU functions
21:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l1SP by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: special cases for Hypot
21:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l1TG by [Jan H. Hosang] in
go/src/pkg/container/list/ -- Implemented ExtendFront/Back functions to insert a
list of elements into a list.
21:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l1UC by [Robert Griesemer] in 9 subdirs of
go/src/ -- Steps towards tracking scopes for identifiers.
21:37 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: yes i have internal go routines and they are
member functions of the proxy and they live for a while ..
21:38 -!- jdp [n=justin@75.97.120.11.res-cmts.senj.ptd.net] has quit [Remote
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21:38 < skelterjohn> ok - so a goroutine has a reference to those objects,
and those goroutines are active, so the objects can't be cleaned up
21:39 < skelterjohn> there is no such thing as a "destructor" in go
21:39 < skelterjohn> if you want a particular object and its goroutines to
die, you'll have to send it/them a message
21:42 -!- nomemory [n=nm@94.62.140.2] has joined #go-nuts
21:42 < nomemory> hello, does go lang supports 'goto' functionality ?
21:42 < happy> If I have a function that accepts ...  parameters and I do
not want it to recieve certain types, should I just throw a runtime exception?  Or
is there a better way.
21:42 < happy> nomemory: yep
21:43 < nomemory> thank you
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21:46 < skelterjohn> happy: have the return type include an error
21:47 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: thanx
21:47 < happy> skelterjohn: I can not have more than one thing return.  It
needs to work so that you can use it inline
21:48 < skelterjohn> then you want to wait until exceptions are part of the
language
21:48 < skelterjohn> but i think the "inline" requirement is a bad one
21:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l5hI by [Yves Junqueira] in go/src/pkg/net/
-- Use /etc/hosts when resolving names.
21:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l5i1 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/template/ --
template: look inside interface values
21:48 < happy> skelterjohn: for example fmt.Println(f("something", "else",
"a"))
21:48 < skelterjohn> may i ask what context?
21:48 < skelterjohn> if there was an error in f, how could it be caught?
21:48 < skelterjohn> just make it into two lines
21:49 < skelterjohn> makes it easier to read, imo
21:49 < happy> skelterjohn: I am rewriting path.Join because I want it to
support slices and an infinite amount of directories.
21:50 < dho> well it still needs to be able to return an error, no?
21:50 < happy> skelterjohn: so path.Join([string]{"somethign", "else"},
"two", "three")
21:51 < happy> dho: yeah...  I wish there was a way to give a compiler
error...
21:51 < dho> compiler error?
21:51 < happy> dho: like specify that only certain types could be sent via
...
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21:53 < happy> dho: I am not sure if this would be hard to add to the spec.
But it says in the general roadmap that they want to rewrite how ...  works.  I
would want to be able to specify what can be sent.
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21:54 < happy> dho: What kills me is that it is something that could be
checked at compile time :-\
21:54 < dho> i guess, it would require some sort of annotation
21:55 < happy> yeah
21:58 < happy> dho: if I were to request it be changed, what would be the
chance that it would be?  It is way beyond me to do something like that.  I am
rewriting path.Join because it bugged me, and I thought that it would be within my
skill range.
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22:03 < dho> i don't know.
22:03 <+iant> it's fairly like that we will change ...  to take a type, as
in func Join(...  string) string
22:04 < skelterjohn> what about a set of types?
22:04 <+iant> that is less likely since you can do that using ...
interface{}
22:04 < skelterjohn> (...  string | int)
22:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l8x5 by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- Don't check array bounds if we have been told not to.
22:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/6l8xh by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 2 subdirs of
go/test/ -- Test order of evaluation in tuple assignments.
22:04 <+iant> if the function uses ...  string, then instead of the struct
it gets now, it will get a slice of that type
22:04 < skelterjohn> that would certainly be more convenient
22:05 <+iant> yes, and also faster
22:05 <+iant> this isn't for sure, but it looks likely
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22:06 < happy> iant: what if I want someone to be able to send only strings
and ints?  or only strings and []ints?
22:06 <+iant> you'll have to fall back on ...  interface{}
22:06 <+iant> unless we get union types into the language, but that is
farther off
22:06 < skelterjohn> which would still be much easier to deal with than the
reflect struct
22:07 < skelterjohn> union types would solve happy's problem entirely
22:07 < happy> iant: that is ok, but what I really want is a way to control
at compile time what types can be sent as interfaces
22:07 < happy> I do not even know what that is...
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22:07 < skelterjohn> in C, a union type is a type that you can treat as any
number of specific structs
22:08 < KirkMcDonald> Not just structs.
22:08 < skelterjohn> so if you unioned an int and a char[4] together, you
could treat it as an int or a char[4]
22:08 < dho> s/structs/types/
22:08 < skelterjohn> i don't think C had a way to remember what the assigned
type was, maybe go will
22:08 < happy> ok...
22:08 < dho> you usually use them in conjunction with a struct so that you
can have some annotation of what the type is.
22:08 < dho> e.g.
22:08 < KirkMcDonald> One pattern used in C code is to have a struct with an
enum field and a union field.
22:08 < skelterjohn> dho and KirkMcDonald should make out
22:09 < KirkMcDonald> Where the enum has one value for each field in the
union.
22:09 < dho> struct foo { union { int i; char c; } u; int t; }
22:09 < happy> ok
22:09 < dho> enum { T_INT, T_CHAR };
22:09 <+iant> in some languages that is called a tagged union
22:09 < skelterjohn> i'd bet that a go version of union would remember type
and have type assertions similar to an interface
22:09 < dho> struct foo bar; bar.u.i = 42; bar.t = T_INT;
22:11 < happy> thanks for the help.  I just have two more questions.  1.
can I overload functions (probably yes).  2.  What should I do if someone sends a
var to my Join function that is not a string?
22:11 < KirkMcDonald> happy: 1.  No. 2.  A compilation error.
22:11 < KirkMcDonald> Er, assuming your Join function wants a string.
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22:12 < happy> KirkMcDonald: how do I make it give a compilation error?
22:12 < KirkMcDonald> Oh, I see.
22:12 < KirkMcDonald> You're writing a variadic function.
22:13 < happy> yes.  exactly.  I want to send it any number of strings.  Or
even better strings and string slices
22:13 < KirkMcDonald> It is because of cases like this that I liked D's
type-safe variadics.
22:13 < happy> but an int is not very useful...
22:13 < happy> I have never used D
22:13 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: how does D do it?
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22:14 < KirkMcDonald> The D syntax looks something like: void f(int[] i...)
{}
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22:14 < KirkMcDonald> So 'i' is a variable of type int[] (a dynamic array,
very much like an []int in Go).
22:14 < pure_x01> I get a "throw: all goroutines are asleep - deadlock!"
http://gopaste.org/view/Vhc9C when running a simple sleep test program ..  when
invoking the sleep function as a go routine (as intended) it does not fail
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22:14 < KirkMcDonald> The function can be called like this: f(1, 2, 3, 4)
22:15 < KirkMcDonald> That is, with a variable number of int arguments.
22:15 < KirkMcDonald> Or it can be called with an explicit int[] argument.
22:15 <+iant> KirkMcDonald: thanks; so that sounds similar to the proposed
change to ...  int
22:15 <+iant> ah, but that part is different
22:15 < KirkMcDonald> iant: There are some other, more complicated aspects
to the feature.
22:16 < KirkMcDonald> Say you have a struct (using D syntax here): struct S
{ int a; string b; }
22:16 < KirkMcDonald> You might have void f(S s...) {}
22:16 < KirkMcDonald> You can call the function as: f(1, "foo", S(2, "bar"))
22:17 <+iant> huh
22:17 < KirkMcDonald> Er, that should have been f(S[] s...) {}
22:17 < KirkMcDonald> Anyway.  This would give you an array with two S
structs in it.
22:17 < KirkMcDonald> It would try very hard to construct the S items from
the arguments passed to it.
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22:17 < KirkMcDonald> S(2, "bar") is just D's "struct literal" syntax.
22:17 <+iant> right
22:18 < dho> pure_x01: that looks like a bug to me.
22:18 < KirkMcDonald> iant: This could lead to some rather compliex
possibilities when you throw classes and overloaded constructors into the mix...
22:18 < pure_x01> dho: i will submit it
22:19 < dho> maybe.
22:19 < pure_x01> ok
22:19 < KirkMcDonald> iant: But!  The simple, sane case of int[] and so
forth was very useful.
22:19 < happy> iant: another question, why is there no overloading?
22:20 < pure_x01> dho: it finishes after 5s with that error so it sleeps
first then dies
22:20 < dho> that doesn't make sense
22:20 <+iant> happy: http://golang.org/doc/go_lang_faq.html#overloading
22:21 < dho> it's like gosched gets called after sched.msyscall is decreased
and before sched.msyscall is increased.
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22:21 < dho> oh
22:22 < dho> pure_x01: no
22:22 < dho> you have a bug
22:22 < dho> pure_x01: you meant to do `go sleep(finChan)'
22:22 < pure_x01> dho: yes that was my intention but i missed the go
22:22 < pure_x01> dho: when running with go it works
22:22 < dho> you don't understand why it doesn't otherwise?
22:23 < pure_x01> dho: exactly
22:23 < dho> pure_x01: in your `broken' code, who is listening on the
channel?
22:24 < pure_x01> dho: the main "thread" ? not sure
22:24 < dho> why?
22:24 < pure_x01> <-finChan ?
22:24 < dho> when does that get executed?
22:25 < pure_x01> after the sleep
22:25 < dho> ok, and what's the last line of sleep()?
22:26 < pure_x01> to send 1 to the channel and then hopfully that would be
read in the main method
22:26 < pure_x01> if im thinking correctly
22:26 < pure_x01> wich im probably not
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22:26 < dho> it can't be read in func main, because <-finChan hasn't
executed yet.
22:26 < dho> let me draw you a simple set of diagrams for your program flow,
maybe it will make more sense.
22:26 < pure_x01> thanx
22:26 < dho> this is for a simpler program that doesn't even call sleep
22:30 < dho> http://gopaste.org/view/h7F1d
22:31 < dho> does that make more sense?
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22:32 < pure_x01> thanx..  im trying to understand it ..  i narrowed my code
down a bit http://gopaste.org/view/k69Ut
22:35 < dho> ok.
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22:38 < dho> Why would <-finChan ever execute in that case?
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22:38 < pure_x01> ok so you have to have a go routine listening on a channel
before sending to it?
22:38 < pure_x01> or wait i think im slowly starting to understand the
problem
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22:38 < pure_x01> i thought that it you put a value on a channel it would be
on the channel but maybe that only works with buffered channels?
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22:39 < dho> pure_x01: yes; channels are a synchronization mechanism
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22:39 < dho> with an unbuffered channel, a write to the channel must be read
before the write returns
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22:39 < pure_x01> channels is a new concept for me the closest thing i have
been working on before are with blocking queues between threads
22:40 < pure_x01> thanx now i understand :-)
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22:48 < dho> no problem :)
22:48 < dho> on buffered channels, read is like lock and write is like
unlock
22:48 < dho> on unbuffered channels, write is like lock and read is like
unlock
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22:51 < skelterjohn> sorta
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22:51 < pure_x01> dho: so it seems to be ok to write to a channel that noone
is listening to as long as you do it from a goroutine
http://gopaste.org/view/8p5pU
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22:53 < pure_x01> like this http://gopaste.org/view/54Bhy
22:53 < dho> pure_x01: sure, as long as at least 1 goroutine may make
progress
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22:54 < dho> right
22:54 < pure_x01> dho: amen
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22:58 < pure_x01> in java the main method is executing in the main thread.
would it be possible to have the main go func to be executing in its own goroutine
so all funcs would be equal
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22:58 < skelterjohn> not sure what you mean....
22:58 < skelterjohn> main() is executing in its own goroutine...
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23:02 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: it is?  i thought this showed that it didnt
http://gopaste.org/view/54Bhy ..  that writing to a unbuffered channel that no one
is listening to is only ok from a goroutine ,,
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23:36 < skelterjohn> define "fail"
23:36 < skelterjohn> go sleep() is a no-op
23:37 < pure_x01> absolutly ..  when any goroutine go's in to blocking mode
the scheduler will try to continue executing another goroutine ..  if there is
only one goroutine "the main goroutine" it will fail
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23:37 < skelterjohn> oh an infinite loop
23:37 < skelterjohn> ok the reason for this is a bit more delicate
23:37 < skelterjohn> has to do with schedulers
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23:38 < skelterjohn> if you set GOMAXPROCS to 2, it will behave the same
whether or not you comment out that line
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23:38 < skelterjohn> if you have GOMAXPROCS set to 1 (the default) that
means that you can only have one goroutine running at a time
23:38 < skelterjohn> if that "go sleep()" routine starts, it will run
forever
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23:38 < skelterjohn> because nothing in it will ever yield control
23:38 < skelterjohn> something like a channel access, a system call or file
io etc will cause that goroutine to yield
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23:38 < skelterjohn> yeah...not gonna look in the c code :)
23:38 < skelterjohn> so if you call "go sleep()", and that goroutine starts
up, main will never get to finish
23:38 < skelterjohn> because it will never be given back control
23:38 < skelterjohn> if you have GOMAXPROCS set to 2, main will get to
finish (in another process) and main() will return (killing the other goroutine)
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23:38 < skelterjohn> oh but it won't return, because it writes to a channel
that no one can read from
23:38 < skelterjohn> causing threadlock
23:38 < skelterjohn> which will dump some nasty stuff onto your terminal
23:38 < skelterjohn> s/writes to/reads from/
23:39 < pure_x01> seems like the IRC server is not making it easy to have a
conversation :-)
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23:40 < pure_x01> skelterjohn: i have to Go! to sleep() ,, thanx for an
interesting conversation and i learned some new stuff.
23:40 < skelterjohn> right
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23:41 < skelterjohn> frustrating :)
23:41 < skelterjohn> i think we need a completely new mass chat medium to
replace IRC
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23:42 < skelterjohn> the days when things needed to be usable in text-only
mode are over
23:43 < skelterjohn> glad to help
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23:43 < dagle> Oh that was a bad joke.  I will snatch that!  :)
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--- Log closed Sat Jan 16 00:00:11 2010