--- Log opened Tue Jan 26 00:00:01 2010
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01:13 < ashaw> how do I access FMA instructions in go?
01:14 <+iant> ashaw: there is no way to access them directly at present
(assuming you mean multiply-and-add)
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01:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72DmC by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/go/parser/ -- steps towards a simplified parser interface
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01:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72JKR by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ -- 5l,
6l, 8l: accept only one object file
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02:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72PWF by [Russ Cox] in 6 subdirs of go/ --
runtime, type switch: eliminate package global name space assumption
02:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72PWY by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- eliminate package global name space
02:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72PXC by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/cc/ -- cc:
correct handling of leading ·
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02:42 < ashaw> how do I access FMA instructions in go?
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02:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72T7y by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/ld/ -- ld:
typo
02:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72T7N by [Petar Maymounkov] in
go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: make Request.Body an io.ReadCloser, matching
Response.Body.
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03:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72WlJ by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: add Stephen
Weinberg (individual CLA)
03:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72WlX by [Stephen Weinberg] in go/src/pkg/xml/
-- xml: add Escape, copied from template.HTMLEscape.
03:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/72WmD by [Russ Cox] in 22 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- in C and asm, replace pkg·name with ·name
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05:05 < res> nsf: about go-hg, PATH added on sunday
05:07 < res> in spite not wanting to, since i dont like adding to path
automagically ;)
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05:07 < res> besides, it's the only pkg with full functionality
05:07 <+kaib> evening everyone
05:09 < anticw> kaib: you have a sheeva plug or similar?
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05:10 <+kaib> anticw: just a simple at91sam7s breakout board plus some
hardware attached to it
05:10 < anticw> v5 arm then?
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05:21 < anticw> dho: awake still?
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05:35 < anticw> kaib: i was curious, how large is the runtime you use on
that?  how much 'free memory' do you have to play with?
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05:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/73sAP by [Kai Backman] in go/src/cmd/5l/ --
salvaging 183105 from dead client
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06:16 <+kaib> anticw: sorry, was debugging some build errors after a sync
06:16 <+kaib> anticw: yep, arm5.
06:17 <+kaib> anticw: 256kB flash, 32 kB SRAM.
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06:19 < anticw> kaib: np, i saw the commits and figured as much
06:19 < anticw> kaib: 32kB SRAM ...  that's very very tight, can you do
anything useful with that?
06:20 <+kaib> anticw: i hope so.  i've been running a CNC system on
something with 4kB of SRAM, so 32kB seems like a largish upgrade.
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06:20 <+kaib> anticw: the trick is to use secondary memories (like SD cards)
and ethernet.
06:21 <+kaib> anticw: the core can pump data through at 600Mbit/s, you just
can't stop and store anything
06:22 < anticw> kaib: sd and ethernet seem clumsy as secondary memories,
esp.  the later and you tend to have to reserve packet buffers to make that robust
and it's going to have unpredictale latencies
06:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/73yAF by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/test/ -- channel types parsed not according to spec by 6g
06:24 <+kaib> anticw: true, eth is just for getting data in, SD cards are
good as extended memory.
06:24 <+kaib> anticw: they are relatively easy to hook up in terms of
software and you can get them very cheaply.
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07:18 < anticw> any mac people awake here?
07:19 < anticw> i'm wondering why 'hg sync' fails on my mcapple test machine
...  the hg extension isn't loading but nothing is obvious to me as to why
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07:38 <+kaib> anticw: hg sync was working a few moments ago
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07:44 < anticw> kaib: the issue is resolved...  for some reason hg clone on
linux DTRT and setup hgrc but the mac vesion didn't
07:44 < anticw> manually tweaking things and it's fine now, not sure why the
difference ...  might be a mercurial quirk
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07:46 < anticw> when does the runtime invoke GC?
07:47 < anticw> oh wow...  GC is very very slow when i invoke malloc.GC
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07:59 < nsf> res: nice :)
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16:24 < bortzmeyer> /msg NickServ IDENTIFY bortzmeyer
16:24 < bortzmeyer> I do not find the way to have varying types (structs
with a part which depends on some fields, like CASE in Ada or unions in C)
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16:27 < dho> Apparently also doesn't find it important to wait for more than
2 minutes for an answer.
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16:29 < LuitvD> clearly
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16:30 < LuitvD> or he has found that he said something stupid...
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17:24 < anticw> iant: are you planning on using the same gc as 6g in the
short term or waiting to see what happens on that front?
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17:27 < anticw> hmm...  33s to sort ~3M elements in vector.Vector ...  that
seems quite slow
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17:40 <+iant> anticw: I'm planning to use mostly the same GC code, although
it will require compiler support which will of course be different
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18:23 < jalmeida> is possible install go on win ?
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18:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7634X by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/ -- spec: allow
func() func().
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18:38 <+iant> jalmeida: see http://code.google.com/p/go-windows/
18:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/767kw by [Russ Cox] in 5 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
fix chan <- chan precedence.
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18:48 < anticw> iant: compiler support in which way?
18:49 <+iant> anticw: the compiler has to note when a pointer is copied or
discarded
18:49 <+iant> in order to do efficient reference counting
18:50 < anticw> iant: the long-term plan is reference counts vs something
like mark and sweep?
18:50 <+iant> yes, that is what we currently plan
18:56 < anticw> iant: how large are the counters?  it seems i could overflow
a 32-bit one w/o much effort
18:58 <+iant> anticw: actually it would take a fair amount of effort because
you would have to make that many copies of the pointer
18:58 <+iant> anticw: I think if you did that we would just never collect
the pointer
18:59 < anticw> iant: it might be contrived ...  but not hard
18:59 < anticw> array/slice indicies being ints already bite in some cases
18:59 < anticw> i dont know of a clean way to deal with that
19:00 <+iant> anticw: your program would have to run for a while
19:00 <+iant> anticw: yeah, I'm not sure I agree with using 32-bit indices
for slices, but it does make the 99% case faster
19:01 < anticw> iant: i dont want 64-bit though ...  not by default
19:01 < anticw> because i almost never need it ...  but 4GB is really small
now days
19:01 < anticw> even for cellphones ...  many have 16GB of flash for example
19:02 <+iant> I think the question is how often you accidentally have a
single slice more than 4G
19:02 <+iant> if you know the slice can be that large, you can partition
19:02 <+iant> which I agree is inconvenient
19:02 < anticw> segments
19:02 < anticw> again
19:02 < anticw> that was a failure
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19:03 <+iant> well, I won't try to defend it too strongly; an issue to raise
on the mailing list
19:06 < anticw> iant: would something like [[]]int (ugly) be potentially a
way to indicate something like 64-bit index requirements?
19:06 < anticw> but only in declaration?  it feels really really ugly
19:07 < anticw> and it would mean for i:=0; ...  ; ...  { // cast needed to
access ary from i }
19:07 <+iant> I would just write a separate type with methods for large data
sets
19:07 <+iant> like container/vector
19:07 <+iant> but using int64
19:07 < anticw> container/vector right now is horrible slow
19:08 < anticw> a sort of ~3M elements takes 33s now
19:08 <+iant> I wonder how much of that is due to useless bounds checking
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19:10 < anticw> well, some of that i think can be optimized away, i think
that's probably why jvm/jit is MUCH faster than go right now
19:15 <+iant> Yes, I expect that some can be optimized away eventually
19:20 * LuitvD might be moving
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19:47 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76kYl by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/go/parser/ -- Bug in go/parser when coverting identifier lists.
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20:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76pa0 by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/ -- Allow func() func().
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20:44 < hstimer> what is the byte overhead per channel -- including all
bookkeeping structures etc..
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20:46 <+iant> hstimer: about 6 32-bit words plus 10 pointers plus the buffer
for a buffered channel
20:47 <+iant> make that 8 pointers
20:47 < hstimer> iant: any meaningful context switch cost?  i.e.  cycles
20:47 <+iant> the cost of switching between goroutines is fairly low, just
some register saves and loads; I'm not sure how many cycles it is, though
20:48 < hstimer> so under 10 or 20 cycles probably
20:48 < hstimer> how is the current implementation of go with respect to
multiple cpu/cores?
20:49 < hstimer> can it keep them busy?
20:49 <+iant> the current implementation multiplexes go routines onto
underlying OS threads
20:49 <+iant> yes, it can keep them busy
20:49 < hstimer> iant: thanks
20:49 <+iant> there is probably some scheduling overhead, 10 or 20 cycles
may be too low
20:49 <+iant> I mean, finding the next goroutine to run
20:49 <+iant> though that is simple for a synchronous channel send
20:50 < hstimer> oh...  what is the algorithm?
20:50 <+iant> I'm not sure exactly
20:50 < hstimer> I assumed something simple like a ring
20:50 <+iant> yes, it's something simple for sure
20:50 <+iant> see src/pkg/runtime/proc.c
20:50 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76zgX by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: 386 FPU hypot
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21:00 < hstimer> iant: a lot more than 10 or 20; just eyeballing I would say
it is definitely over 100 -- probably between 200 and 500 unless it has to loop
over the entire queue trying to find available (not blocked) work
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21:01 <+iant> put a send on a synchronous channel is a bit of a special
case, but still I'm expect it's at least 100 cycles
21:02 <+iant> s/put/but/
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21:03 < hstimer> iant: I thought someone did a test with like a million go
routines and twice as many channels....  but I can't remember where I read that
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21:04 <+iant> it's in Rob's video, I can't remember whether it was 100,000
or 1,000,000
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21:04 <+iant> the code is in test/chan/goroutines.go, though there it is
scaled back to 10,000 goroutines for testing
21:05 < dho> should be able to figure that stuff out with hwpmc on freebsd
21:06 < skelterjohn> 100k
21:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76CJ5 by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/misc/dashboard/ -- dashboard: add benchmarking support.
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21:23 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76GgW by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: add Icarus
Sparry (individual CLA)
21:23 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76Gi0 by [Icarus Sparry] in go/src/cmd/gotest/
-- gotest still assumes that gopack is in your PATH
21:23 < plexdev> http://is.gd/76Gil by [Icarus Sparry] in go/src/pkg/os/ --
os: in test, allow Hostname to return FQDN even if /bin/hostname does not
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21:43 < LuitvD> looks like the trouble I have with the `net` (and therefore
the `http` package too) is Debian-related
21:43 < LuitvD> as NetBeans (and java in general) is failing to use sockets
too
21:47 < dho> Hm
21:48 < dho> I should try wrapping our high-perf net / smtp library and
playing with it in go
21:48 < dho> it uses closures quite heavily though
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23:24 < nsf> codereview.appspot.com is so user unfriendly :(
23:25 <+iant> I just use the hg extensions
23:25 < nsf> I've spent an hour figuring out how to send a new issue using
git
23:25 < nsf> I don't like hg :D
23:25 <+iant> well, then....
23:25 < nsf> yep, I'm on my own )
23:26 < nsf> damn, and I forgot 1 file :(
23:28 < happy> does anyone know what is going on with the http lib?
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23:30 < nsf> what I really like in git is its "staging" concept, where you
can add changes before commit even line by line :D
23:31 < nsf> as far as I remember hg doesn't have such thing
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23:41 < mrd`> nsf: Really?  I find the staging idea unintuitive.
23:42 < mrd`> nsf: I always run "$vc diff" before "$vc commit" to double
check what I'm about to commit.
23:43 < nsf> it's unintuitive when you're making a mess in commits..  but
when you want "nice and sweet" commits where each change makes sense..  it really
helps
23:43 < nsf> basicly you're doing mess in sources as usual and the using git
diff and git diff --cached make nice commits :D
23:43 < nsf> then*
23:43 < mrd`> "diff --cached" is a lot longer to type than "commit -a".
23:44 < nsf> sometimes it's hard to do just right changes in a source tree
23:44 < nsf> for example while working on a big feature X you've noticed
some silly debug print statement
23:45 < nsf> it's bad to include it in the commit with big feature X, but
you really don't want to leave it there
23:45 < mrd`> Hm.
23:45 < nsf> so, you simply remove and then make a separate commit for it :D
23:45 < nsf> "staging" helps managing things
23:46 < mrd`> I guess.
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23:53 < usausa> If you want to do this kind of thing, then the "record"
extension does this for you.  You use it instead of "commit".  It only works to
the patch "hunk" level so if your silly debug print statement is in the middle of
the stuff you are altering you are out of luck.
23:55 < usausa> http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/RecordExtension
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--- Log closed Wed Jan 27 00:00:50 2010