--- Log opened Wed Jan 27 00:00:50 2010 00:03 -!- Xera^ [n=brit@87-194-208-246.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 00:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/77eXt by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc: do not treat .6 different from .a anymore 00:12 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 00:20 -!- hevalbaranov [n=hevalbar@88.252.167.164] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 00:21 -!- hevalbaranov [n=hevalbar@88.252.167.164] has joined #go-nuts 00:23 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has joined #go-nuts 00:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/77hGM by [Michael Hoisie] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: fix segfault if /etc/hosts fails to open or doesn't exist 00:31 -!- Tuller [n=Tuller@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:31 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has left #go-nuts [] 00:31 -!- ShadowIce [n=pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit ["Verlassend"] 00:38 -!- iant [n=iant@nat/google/x-hmfdofmjqxicnuxz] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:41 -!- kanru [n=kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 00:42 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [] 00:45 -!- bl3u [n=me@24-107-152-12.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:46 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-38-71.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 00:47 -!- scarabx [n=scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:50 -!- iant [n=iant@67.218.104.197] has joined #go-nuts 00:50 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 00:51 -!- murodese [n=James@124-169-186-155.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 00:56 -!- kota1111 [n=kota1111@gw2.kbmj.jp] has joined #go-nuts 01:12 -!- mssm [n=mssm@ip-95-221-65-207.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:13 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@lawn-net168-in.rutgers.edu] has quit [] 01:14 -!- murodes1 [n=James@124-169-46-4.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 01:31 -!- nighty__ [n=nighty@210.188.173.245] has joined #go-nuts 01:34 -!- gnuvince_ [n=vince@70.35.165.199] has joined #go-nuts 01:35 -!- gnuvince [n=vince@220.227-ppp.3menatwork.com] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 01:39 -!- lambo4jos [n=chatzill@c-76-126-250-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:40 -!- tanamo [n=tanamo@125.252.70.230] has joined #go-nuts 01:49 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has joined #go-nuts 01:50 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-76-116-179-93.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:55 -!- carllerche [n=carllerc@enginey-9.border1.sfo002.pnap.net] has quit [] 01:57 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@d64-180-45-230.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 01:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/77xRQ by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/patch/ -- patch: handle text diffs from git 02:00 -!- itrekkie [n=itrekkie@ip72-211-128-139.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [] 02:00 -!- hstimer [n=hans@70.90.170.37] has quit ["Leaving..."] 02:03 -!- gnuvince_ [n=vince@70.35.165.199] has quit ["What the fruit is goin' on here!?"] 02:08 -!- rares_ [n=rares@c-98-231-186-250.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:08 -!- rares_ [n=rares@c-98-231-186-250.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:11 -!- gnuvince [n=vince@70.35.165.199] has joined #go-nuts 02:11 -!- amorpisseur [n=analogue@toulouse.jfg-networks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:12 -!- mi1ena [i=opera@95-52-188-104.dynamic.komi.dslavangard.ru] has joined #go-nuts 02:14 -!- iant [n=iant@67.218.104.197] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:19 -!- itrekkie [n=itrekkie@ip72-211-128-139.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:24 < happy> anyone know why this would happen when I try to compile? http://pastebin.com/d7d742e65 02:29 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:29 -!- kfx [n=kfx@unaffiliated/kfx] has quit ["brb fbi"] 02:30 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has joined #go-nuts 02:30 < plexdev> http://is.gd/77DpJ by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/cgo/ -- cgo: update for package global name space 02:43 -!- mi1ena [i=opera@95-52-188-104.dynamic.komi.dslavangard.ru] has left #go-nuts [] 02:49 -!- triplez [n=triplez@bb116-14-34-85.singnet.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts 02:50 -!- carllerche [n=carllerc@c-69-181-129-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:54 * tav waves 03:01 -!- res [n=res@unaffiliated/res] has quit [Connection timed out] 03:12 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5ad1d7d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 03:15 -!- res [n=res@unaffiliated/res] has joined #go-nuts 03:15 -!- Tuller [n=Tuller@pool-72-84-246-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["to the batcave?"] 03:26 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@128.189.89.108] has joined #go-nuts 03:36 -!- carllerche [n=carllerc@c-69-181-129-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:37 -!- KB1JWQ_ [i=KB1JWQ@freenode/staff/kb1jwq] has joined #go-nuts 03:43 -!- Will_D [n=Will@c-24-17-243-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:01 -!- hstimer [n=hans@c-98-234-25-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:01 -!- Venom_X [n=pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [] 04:01 -!- amacleod [n=amacleod@c-75-69-45-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Bye Bye"] 04:12 -!- skelterjohn [n=jasmuth@c-76-116-179-93.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:17 -!- kaib [n=kaib@c-76-102-52-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:17 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v kaib] by ChanServ 04:18 <+kaib> evening! 04:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/77XPE by [Kai Backman] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/runtime/embedded/ -- small embedded target for arm. 04:39 -!- Cyprien__ [i=Cyprien@102-43.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #go-nuts 04:46 < anticw> kaib: is that arm5 work done on real hw or an emulator at this stage? 04:46 <+kaib> anticw: real hardware. i gave up on qemu a few months back. 04:47 < anticw> kaib: the atmel thang or something else? 04:47 <+kaib> anticw: the atmel device. i have a few other devices around but that's the one i'm most familiar with at this point 04:48 < anticw> kaib: so back to a question from last night ... what is the practical footprint you're using then? 04:49 <+kaib> anticw: did we have a go pastebin? 04:50 -!- jdpo [n=joe@66-169-176-49.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 04:50 < anticw> kaib: nothing i've seen 04:50 <+kaib> anticw: nm, here is the elf output http://pastebin.com/m6a7eede4 04:51 <+kaib> anticw: almost all of it is reflection type information 04:51 <+kaib> anticw: i have a plan for adding a flag to 5g to enable turning reflection off, to save space. but there are a few more bugs before i get there. 04:52 < anticw> oh, speaking of such things ... i wondered about a flag for *g to disable generation of bounds-checking insns 04:56 < anticw> kaib: you did the bulk of the 5g work? 04:56 <+kaib> anticw: yeah. ken and rsc did the common parts in gc but most of the stuff in 5g is my work 04:57 < anticw> right, i'm wondering as the 5g parts might be a starting point for a mips32 port 04:57 < anticw> i'm wondered what level of effort that would be at this point, not for embedded but for linux 04:57 -!- Cyprien_ [i=Cyprien@38-14.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 04:58 < anticw> (lots of small access points and routers are mips32be for example) 04:59 <+kaib> it took me about 8 months of wall time to do it, but there are still bits and pieces missing. 05:00 < anticw> yeah, i was worried it would be something really large like that 05:00 <+kaib> i was doing it mostly on 20% time, but i spent a lot of evenings on it as well. hard to say total number of hours. 05:00 < anticw> yeah, i have like 5% time :) 05:00 <+kaib> :-) 05:00 <+kaib> i also benefited of having rsc close by and to a lesser extent from having ken around. 05:01 < anticw> i wondered if i could basically take 5g and replace the insn generated with similar equivs 05:01 < anticw> and have the plan9 assembler for mips deal with delay slots 05:01 <+kaib> rsc has coded some mips and he was able to grok a lot of arm based on that. 05:01 < anticw> (im assuming there is such a beast already and it deals with that already) 05:01 <+kaib> you have the plan9 linker, which is probably the hardest part. 05:02 < anticw> in which way? 05:02 -!- scarabx [n=scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["This computer has gone to sleep"] 05:02 < anticw> i mean, whta's there should be close enough 05:02 <+kaib> so, 5g produces an intermediate format that 5l then turns into real machine code. 05:03 <+kaib> i'm guessing that the mips linker hides delay slots from the intermediate, that's what 5l does for thumb (you supposedly just turn it on) 05:03 <+kaib> haven't tried thumb however. 05:03 <+kaib> it's a significant amount of work. i entertained writing an avr backend after the arm one, but have given up that plan for now. 05:03 <+kaib> definitely doable, but significant. 05:04 -!- droid001 [n=g1@p4FDCB4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:04 <+kaib> if you are interested take a look at the changelists that went into 5g in the repository. 05:04 <+kaib> and just browse the code for feel. 05:05 < anticw> i had a look over some of it already ... conditional logic would be different 05:05 < anticw> and im not sure what ABI quirks there could be 05:05 < anticw> (i guess the ABI for this isn't really defined other than stuff goes on the stack) 05:11 <+kaib> the go ABI is standard across platforms. 05:11 <+kaib> and you are right, everything goes on the stack. 05:12 <+kaib> input first, output then. 05:12 < anticw> yeah, i dont like that actually 05:12 <+kaib> why? 05:12 < anticw> it seems a bit wasteful for modern CPUs ... though stack accesses aren't that expensive 05:13 -!- triplez [n=triplez@bb116-14-34-85.singnet.com.sg] has quit [] 05:13 < anticw> for i386 i can see why people would do that ... for x86-64, arm, etc. you can use a couple of registers ... and most other ABIs on those platforms do 05:15 <+kaib> so, the compilers use a caller save policy for registers. 05:16 <+kaib> to be more precise, after every statement all the registers are saved and no registers are live 05:16 <+kaib> this means the register allocation is dead simple, if not without some subtleties however. 05:16 -!- zpmorgan_ [n=zach@74.60.163.195] has joined #go-nuts 05:17 <+kaib> there is an additional optimization step (which isn't turned on for 5g currently) where we do a pass through the code and eliminate redundant saves and restores. 05:17 -!- zpmorgan [n=zach@74.60.163.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:17 <+kaib> if you look up register allocation for compilers you'll note that this is a huge area for research, and there are very complex ways of doing them. 05:17 < anticw> my impression is that there was more because of how gc was implemented and is potentially something that could change with good reason 05:18 <+kaib> gc as in the compiler or gc as in the garbage collector? 05:18 < anticw> the compiler 05:18 < anticw> src/cmd/gc 05:18 <+kaib> right. so this is ken's original design for the c compilers that then moved over when the go compilers were written. 05:19 <+kaib> i don't think anyone wants to change it. 05:19 <+kaib> it's very simple and produces good enough code. 05:19 -!- droid0011 [n=g1@p4FDCA76F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 05:19 < anticw> good enough ... maybe, im not saying it is worth changing but it's something that i think people should be open to long term 05:20 <+kaib> :-) 05:20 < anticw> go's performance right now in some cases is pretty decent, and in others fals behind java and python 05:20 <+kaib> i'm pretty certain that isn't because of the register optimization .. :-) 05:20 < anticw> of it's pre-alpha vs something fairly mature ... so that's somewhat reasonable 05:20 < ni|> evening all :) 05:20 < anticw> sure, but to close the gap i would argue there is no reason it should be off the table 05:20 < ni|> can anyone speak to a good image processing book? I want to start writing a package for that in go 05:21 < anticw> push/pop on x86 are really cheap on modern CPUs, they have complex dedicated hw for it 05:21 <+kaib> anticw: sure, but you have to remember that some of this code is very old and battle tested. the register allocator has been around significantly longer than go has been. 05:22 < anticw> kaib: im not *that* concerned about the register allocation at this point, i think there are likely bigger issues 05:22 < anticw> it seems bounds checking in nest loops isn't always necessary for example 05:23 < anticw> and i tried with 6g to see if there is CSE and it didn't look like it 05:23 <+kaib> anticw: to be honest, i'm currently still concerned with just correctness for 5g. 05:24 < anticw> arm is the only non-x86 platform i would consider worth any effort, so that's laudable 05:25 -!- pshahmumbai [n=prashant@59.164.25.94] has joined #go-nuts 05:26 <+kaib> anticw: and in terms of performance there are a lot of lower hanging fruit. like just getting the optimizer enabled for starters. or getting thumb to work. 05:33 -!- b00m_chef [n=watr@128.189.89.108] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:47 < anticw> kaib: for 5g sure, but mostly i'm worried about 6g 05:47 < anticw> 5g is interested for portable/embedded 05:48 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:48 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 05:51 -!- Will_D [n=Will@c-24-17-243-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 05:51 -!- ashaw [n=ashaw@ppp121-45-171-61.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 05:59 -!- idea_squirrel [n=ct2rips@77-21-31-189-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 06:02 -!- bl3u [n=me@24-107-152-12.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:07 -!- zpmorgan_ [n=zach@74.60.163.195] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 06:08 -!- zpmorgan_ [n=zach@74.60.163.195] has joined 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has joined #go-nuts 06:54 -!- ThreeSix [n=Vova@87.68.255.87.adsl.012.net.il] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 06:57 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-101-46.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 07:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/78mA5 by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/ -- gc: improved syntax errors 07:27 -!- bortzmeyer [n=bortzmey@batilda.nic.fr] has joined #go-nuts 07:29 -!- Spaghettini [n=Spaghett@vaxjo8.44.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:34 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-101-46.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 07:37 -!- murodese [n=James@124-169-186-155.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 07:37 -!- murodese [n=James@124-169-186-155.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 07:48 -!- itrekkie [n=itrekkie@ip72-211-128-139.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 07:48 -!- itrekkie [n=itrekkie@ip72-211-128-139.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:50 -!- kaib [n=kaib@c-76-102-52-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:50 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v kaib] by ChanServ 07:51 -!- trickie [n=trickie@94.100.112.225] has joined #go-nuts 07:52 -!- sea-gull [n=sea-gull@95-28-94-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #go-nuts 07:58 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@vpn-ce242012.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 07:58 -!- scm_ [i=justme@c162075.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 07:59 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@vpn-ce242012.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:01 < uriel> anticw: there are tons of low hanging fruit optimizations for 6g too (and for the runtime and libraries) 08:01 -!- kaib [n=kaib@c-76-102-52-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 08:03 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has quit [] 08:07 -!- chachan [n=chachan@201.208.206.105] has joined #go-nuts 08:08 -!- Xera` [n=brit@87-194-208-246.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09 -!- shasbot 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-!- path[l] [n=path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 12:30 -!- path[l] [n=path@59.162.86.164] has quit [] 12:33 -!- hcatlin [n=hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit ["peace in teh middle east"] 12:39 -!- path[l] [n=path@122.182.0.38] has joined #go-nuts 12:41 -!- nanoo [n=nano@95-89-197-218-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:44 -!- path[l] [n=path@122.182.0.38] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:45 -!- path[l] [n=path@122.182.0.38] has joined #go-nuts 12:54 -!- ioricloud [n=mkvogh@189.84.122.14] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08 -!- analogue [n=analogue@toulouse.jfg-networks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@vpn-ce242009.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 13:09 -!- analogue [n=analogue@toulouse.jfg-networks.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:14 < bortzmeyer> [I posted the question already yesterday but missed the answers. Sorry] 13:14 < bortzmeyer> I'm loooking for a way to have varying types, structs where the presence of some fields depend on the value of another field (CASE in Ada, unions in C). I find nothing in the spec' 13:24 < jhh> maybe you could use interface{} as type? 13:29 < bortzmeyer> jhh: hmmmm, not sure how you could do it. Have an example somewhere? 13:30 < wrtp> there are no discriminated union types in go, although they're on the authors' "to think about" list 13:31 < bortzmeyer> wrtp: and is there an idiomatic way to "emulate" them? 13:31 < wrtp> look at go/ast for an example of a package that uses interfaces in place of discriminated unions 13:31 < wrtp> for fields that are common to all variants, use a common interface 13:32 -!- ayo [n=nya@g228026008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33 -!- jophish [n=jophish@hermi.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- Netsplit niven.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mrd`, djm, Tigge_, tabo, [k2], atsampson, chrome, [Pete_27], homa_rano, Rint_, (+5 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 13:34 -!- Tigge [n=tigge@c-5ba372d5.015-28-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- [k2]_ [n=DrKeeto@69.162.91.23] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- Rint__ [i=john@static-71-244-60-125.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- Pistahhh [n=szekeres@mzilikazi.debian.hu] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- atsampso1 [n=ats@94-193-50-45.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: fluffle 13:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: borisc 13:34 -!- homa_rano [n=erice@18.238.0.87] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- [Pete_27] [n=noname@115.64.1.61] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- dho [n=dho@8.8.38.2] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- mrd` [n=matthew@70.85.31.66] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: djm 13:34 -!- tabo [n=tabot@209.160.72.27] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- Netsplit over, joins: jontore 13:35 -!- triplez [n=triplez@bb220-255-227-218.singnet.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts 13:35 -!- Netsplit over, joins: chrome 13:35 < bortzmeyer> wrtp: thanks 13:36 < wrtp> bortzmeyer: np 13:40 < jhh> bortzmeyer: http://pastebin.com/m7e1614dd 13:40 < jhh> heh that's cool 13:42 < bortzmeyer> jhh: thanks a lot! 13:42 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@vpn-ce242009.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43 < jhh> you can do t.v.(string) or t.v.(int) to "cast" it back from interface{} (I'm sure casting is not the right word) 13:46 -!- sudi [n=chatzill@dslb-084-056-015-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:49 -!- mssm [n=mssm@ip-95-221-65-207.bb.netbynet.ru] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 13:54 -!- kanru [n=kanru@61-228-164-106.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:59 -!- pdusen [n=pdusen@crob4-55.flint.umich.edu] has joined #go-nuts 14:01 -!- path[l] [n=path@122.182.0.38] has quit [] 14:08 -!- mike [n=quassel@91.104.214.167] has joined #go-nuts 14:08 -!- geekcloud [n=geekclou@e176162104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit ["Verlassend"] 14:09 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@24.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:12 -!- oal [n=olav@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:13 -!- amacleod [n=amacleod@c-75-69-45-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:16 -!- Guest13112 [n=quassel@91.104.214.167] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:24 -!- Demp [n=Demp@bzq-79-183-23-1.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:29 -!- araujo [n=araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 14:31 -!- p4p4 [n=P4p4@24.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 14:31 -!- Kibiz0r [n=Adium@wndsnyhed01-pool1-a130.wndsny.tds.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:40 -!- bl3u [n=me@24-107-152-12.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:46 -!- ericvh [n=ericvh@32.97.110.63] has joined #go-nuts 14:50 -!- iant [n=iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 14:55 -!- sudi [n=chatzill@dslb-084-056-015-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:55 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@vpn-ce242044.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:55 -!- mertimor [n=mertimor@vpn-ce242044.extern.uni-duisburg-essen.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 14:56 -!- mssm [n=mssm@ip-95-221-65-207.bb.netbynet.ru] has joined #go-nuts 14:56 -!- robot12 [n=root@robot12.kgts.ru] has quit ["Ухожу я от вас (xchat 2.4.5 или старше)"] 14:59 -!- triplez [n=triplez@bb220-255-227-218.singnet.com.sg] has quit [] 15:00 -!- iant [n=iant@67.218.110.17] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 15:00 -!- chachan [n=chachan@200.44.157.246] has joined #go-nuts 15:11 -!- nanoo [n=nano@95-89-197-218-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 15:23 -!- Pistahhh [n=szekeres@mzilikazi.debian.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23 -!- Pistahh [n=szekeres@mzilikazi.debian.hu] has joined #go-nuts 15:23 -!- Pistahh [n=szekeres@mzilikazi.debian.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28 -!- jophish [n=jophish@hermi.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 15:34 -!- Cyprien__ [i=Cyprien@102-43.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 15:39 -!- imsplitbit [n=imsplitb@64.39.4.132] has joined #go-nuts 15:42 -!- Xera^ [n=brit@87-194-208-246.bethere.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 15:49 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-108-125.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 15:57 -!- hstimer [n=hans@c-98-234-25-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving..."] 15:57 -!- Adys [n=Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 16:00 -!- BleSS [n=quassel@87.223.168.195] has joined #go-nuts 16:00 < BleSS> is possible to get more control over memory management (i.e. no garbage collection) ? 16:00 < bortzmeyer> Go in gcc: http://lwn.net/Articles/371466/rss 16:00 <+danderson> nope 16:02 < BleSS> danderson: I think that there was an undocumented option to unable the GC 16:03 <+danderson> that is not "control" over memory management. 16:03 -!- kanru [n=kanru@61-228-164-106.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit ["WeeChat 0.3.1"] 16:03 <+danderson> Even if you can disable the GC, you can't manually reclaim memory 16:05 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@v32671.1blu.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:05 < BleSS> and is there any interoperability with another langues? 16:08 -!- Will_D [n=Will@c-24-17-243-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:09 <+danderson> go doesn't yet have an FFI, but it's planned. 16:13 -!- triplez [n=triplez@cm107.sigma224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #go-nuts 16:15 -!- iant [n=iant@67.218.110.17] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:15 < dho> There's Cgo. 16:15 < dho> And there are wrappers for Lua as well. 16:18 < dho> There is malloc.Alloc and malloc.Free too, which Russ claims probably won't last. There's also malloc.GC, which forces a garbage collect. 16:18 -!- kaigan|work [n=kaigan@c-8290e255.1411-10-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:18 < dho> You can also control the percentage threshold for garbage collection by setting the GOGC environment variable. 16:19 < dho> GOGC=off turns off GC; GOGC=[integer] controls the percentage of new memory usage that will force a garbage collection 16:19 < dho> e.g. GOGC=150 16:19 < dho> If 10MB are allocated, and then another 15MB are allocated, the GC will run. 16:19 -!- bortzmeyer [n=bortzmey@batilda.nic.fr] has quit ["Leaving."] 16:19 < BleSS> cool! thanks 16:19 < dho> np. 16:20 < dho> Note that even with cgo you can't have C call into Go. 16:20 < dho> There's an interesting workaround for this in the lua bindings that illustrates how you might have C call back into go 16:22 -!- iant [n=iant@nat/google/x-piezlsdlnuoyicuw] has joined #go-nuts 16:22 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 16:25 -!- johan-s [n=johan@106.80-203-21.nextgentel.com] has quit ["awaaaay"] 16:30 -!- GeoBSD [n=geobsd@lns-bzn-33-82-252-59-100.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:31 -!- Havelock [n=John@168-103-71-2.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 16:31 -!- brrant [n=John@168-103-71-2.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:32 -!- brrant [n=John@168-103-71-2.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 16:33 -!- brrant [n=John@168-103-71-2.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- codedread [i=180dd699@gateway/web/freenode/x-xlhlvdloseeefclr] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- codedread [i=180dd699@gateway/web/freenode/x-xlhlvdloseeefclr] has left #go-nuts [] 16:34 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-108-125.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 16:42 -!- Venom_X [n=pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 16:43 -!- hevalbaranov [n=hevalbar@88.252.167.164] has joined #go-nuts 16:47 -!- Will_D [n=Will@c-24-17-243-6.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:49 -!- rsaarelm [n=rsaarelm@cs181128175.pp.htv.fi] has joined #go-nuts 16:52 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@24.106.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 16:53 -!- BleSS [n=quassel@87.223.168.195] has left #go-nuts ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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18:45 -!- encolpe [n=encolpe@gai69-3-82-235-15-3.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:49 -!- droid0011 [n=g1@p4FDCB4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:49 < LuitvD> emet: what do you mean? 18:50 -!- droid001 [n=g1@p4FDCB4CC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [No route to host] 18:58 < dho> emet: yes. 18:58 < dho> see michael hoisie's web.go package. 19:01 < skelterjohn> golang.org is run by go code, so there is at least that 19:03 -!- omicron23 [n=quassel@dslb-088-067-041-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:05 < LuitvD> and there's gopaste 19:05 < LuitvD> at least there /was/ gopaste 19:05 -!- analogue [n=analogue@toulouse.jfg-networks.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06 -!- MissPiggy [n=quantum@unaffiliated/fax] has joined #go-nuts 19:06 < MissPiggy> woah how come there's so many folks here 19:07 < dho> why not 19:07 < LuitvD> :P 19:08 < MissPiggy> yeah but why? 19:08 < LuitvD> because we like it here 19:08 < dho> because people are interested in the topic 19:08 < MissPiggy> why? :p 19:08 < LuitvD> XD 19:08 < LuitvD> aren't you? 19:08 -!- imsplitbit [n=imsplitb@64.39.4.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:08 < MissPiggy> not really 19:08 * dho stops feeding deliberate troll 19:09 * MissPiggy puts dho on ignore for being a elusive twat and then calling names 19:09 < dho> That's funny given that I'm probably the most helpful person here. 19:09 < reggna> :) 19:09 -!- omicron23 [n=quassel@dslb-088-067-041-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #go-nuts ["http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere."] 19:09 < MissPiggy> yeah that's true, you really helped me by avoiding my questions and calling me names 19:09 < LuitvD> I'd believe that in a second 19:09 < dho> other than iant, maybe 19:10 <+iant> I'd vote for dho 19:10 <+iant> MissPiggy: do you actually have a question? 19:10 < reggna> dho is my "go"-to-guy 19:10 < reggna> ^^ 19:10 < LuitvD> me too, but that's because I haven't ... 'used' iant yet 19:10 < MissPiggy> iant, yes 19:10 < dho> instantrimshot 19:11 < MissPiggy> iant, that was an actual question earlier; How come there are SO MANY people in here 19:12 <+iant> MissPiggy: well, why not? I assume that the people here are interested in Go 19:12 < MissPiggy> haha okay 19:12 < dho> iant: Clearly it works better if you say it. 19:12 < MissPiggy> you're just going to do the 'why not?' then call me a troll thing 19:12 < dho> or not. 19:12 <+iant> MissPiggy: I simply don't understand your question 19:12 < dho> MissPiggy: Why are there so many people in ##linux? 19:13 < MissPiggy> iant, I'm surprised so many people are interested in this 19:13 <+iant> MissPiggy: why are you surprised? 19:13 < LuitvD> there's a lot of nerds in the world 19:13 < MissPiggy> because ?? my expectation was smashed 19:13 < MissPiggy> dho, No clue what you are getting at, this isn't ##linux so the answer wont transfer 19:14 < MissPiggy> s/so/and/ 19:14 < LuitvD> mind you this is of the whole population of internet-connected people still just a small group 19:14 < dho> MissPiggy: It's a philosophical question. Lots of people are in there because there are lots of interested parties and lots of people with questions. 19:14 < dho> It transfers perfectly. 19:14 < MissPiggy> non-answer 19:14 < skelterjohn> not if you're being deliberately obtuse 19:15 < dho> skelterjohn: Watch it, you'll get on the faux-ignore list 19:15 < skelterjohn> i was worried about that 19:15 <+iant> MissPiggy: what do you think this channel is about? 19:15 < MissPiggy> iant, go programming language 19:15 < kerozen> 200 ppl is a lot for you ? 19:15 <+iant> MissPiggy: what are you surprised that people are interested in the Go programming language? 19:15 < skelterjohn> back when i played quake 3 we'd get 200 people a channel for a single team. 200 is not a lot for an irc channel. 19:15 < MissPiggy> I know lots of people that make algol-clones and they don't get 200 people 19:16 < LuitvD> #ubuntu has 1461 at the moment 19:16 < LuitvD> gentoo 807 19:16 <+iant> MissPiggy: Really? You know lots of people that make Algol-clones? I don't know any. 19:16 < LuitvD> #python 792 19:16 < reggna> MissPiggy: I can tell you why I'm here.. I'm here to keep in touch with the latest developments of Go, and to ask questions and get guide lines to my own developments projects (that are coded in Go). 19:16 < reggna> *-s 19:17 < kerozen> aggreed with skelterjohn ... when you saw pointless chan with +500 ppl in there ... 200 for a new programing language is just ... few 19:17 < LuitvD> compared to python Go isn't much 19:17 < dho> Also, I really don't see Go as being an Algol `clone'. 19:17 < kerozen> LuitvD: tcl got 70 :x 19:17 < LuitvD> hah! 19:17 < dho> Or really resembling it in any fashion 19:18 < MissPiggy> reggna, sure but that does not answer the general question - which is about a population rather than just one person 19:18 < LuitvD> yuck, #ruby-lang has 325 19:18 < dho> MissPiggy: Your question has been answered repeatedly by multiple parties. 19:18 < MissPiggy> dho no it's not 19:18 < reggna> MissPiggy: No, but I can't talk for "the whole population".. 19:18 < LuitvD> #clojure also has more users 19:18 < LuitvD> but only just 19:18 <+iant> MissPiggy: what form of answer would you find satisfactory? 19:18 < dho> iant: the right one, clearly 19:19 <+iant> I should have thought of that 19:19 < MissPiggy> iant, I guess nobody knows the answer 19:19 <+iant> MissPiggy: that does not answer my question 19:19 <+iant> unless you mean to say that your question has no answer 19:20 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: do you even want an answer? 19:20 < MissPiggy> LuitvD of course, that's why I asked 19:20 <+iant> (if your question has no answer you can hardly blame us for not answering it) 19:20 < dho> 42. 19:20 < dho> There's the answer. 19:20 <+iant> MissPiggy: please give an example of an answer which you would accept 19:21 < skelterjohn> iant: you are wasting your time 19:21 < MissPiggy> compare all the different hobby-language-design projects on freenode 19:21 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: if someone asks you 'sup? does he require an answer? 19:21 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn stfu 19:21 <+iant> skelterjohn: I'm just amusing myself 19:21 <+iant> I expect you're right 19:21 < MissPiggy> this particular one has abnormally large population 19:21 < skelterjohn> it's frustrating to see someone talk to a black hole, that's all 19:21 <+iant> granted 19:21 < LuitvD> iant: compiling? 19:21 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn: just stfu 19:21 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn: you're making this a black hole by calling it that 19:22 < dho> Oh for fuck's sake. 19:22 < skelterjohn> are you 13? 19:22 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn: your friend turned me into a troll by calling me that 19:22 < kerozen> MissPiggy: what is a normaly large pop for this chan? 19:22 < MissPiggy> kerozen, I mean compared to the other hobby language design channels, this one has the largest 19:22 < skelterjohn> anyway, i guess i can update my faux-ignore list too 19:22 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn, if you'd just stfu nobody would have to listen to you whinge 19:22 < MissPiggy> (except a couple like python, which has more users for obvious reasons) 19:22 < kerozen> MissPiggy: wich other ones ? 19:23 < MissPiggy> kerozen, like io and ooc and falcon and whatever 19:23 <+iant> Python is not a hobby language 19:23 <+iant> and the goal of the Go project is also not to be a hobby language 19:23 <+iant> though obviously we have yet to see whether it will succeed 19:23 < LuitvD> iant: Python is a perfect hobby language 19:23 < LuitvD> iant: it just isn't exclusively that 19:23 <+iant> right 19:23 < MissPiggy> iant, this large number of people here seems like an indication of success 19:23 <+iant> not yet 19:23 <+iant> just interest 19:24 < MissPiggy> iant, and this is something I am curious abuot (but apparently im a black hole troll for asking such philosophical questions) 19:24 < LuitvD> for me every programming language is still a hobby language 19:24 < LuitvD> and Python will become my work in 2 weeks 19:24 < LuitvD> for 9 weeks or so 19:24 < kerozen> MissPiggy: this number of ppl is perhaps cause of google link with go ? 19:24 < MissPiggy> What's the google link? 19:24 < skelterjohn> i think of a hobby language as something that can *only* be used for toy programs 19:24 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: geez, check your facts 19:24 < skelterjohn> python is certainly not that 19:25 < dho> MissPiggy: Google started and maintains the Go project. 19:25 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: who do you think created this language? Microsoft? 19:25 < MissPiggy> I thought it was just some hobbyist 19:25 < LuitvD> (apple?) 19:25 < MissPiggy> like Guido or Mats or whoever 19:25 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has joined #go-nuts 19:25 < dho> MissPiggy: I suggest reading http://golang.org. 19:25 < MissPiggy> dho I suggest not calling people trolls 19:25 < MissPiggy> dho just tell them in PM what they are doing wrong 19:25 < skelterjohn> I hear it was McCabe who created go ;) 19:25 < dho> Your volatility certainly isn't helping your cause. 19:26 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has quit [Client Quit] 19:26 -!- path[l] [i=UPP@120.138.102.34] has joined #go-nuts 19:26 < MissPiggy> Is a large percent of this channel people who work at google? 19:26 < MissPiggy> because that would answer it I guess 19:26 <+iant> As far as I know only a couple of people here work at Google 19:26 < skelterjohn> the original question? 19:27 < MissPiggy> so it's not really populated by googlians 19:27 < skelterjohn> heh 19:27 <+iant> no, not really 19:27 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn "woah how come there's so many folks here" -- maybe not the best phrased question 19:27 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn since it made it immediately obvious to people like you and dho that I don't want an answer and I just want to just light in from you 19:27 < skelterjohn> as phrased, the answer "because so many folks are interested in the language" seemed appropriate 19:28 < MissPiggy> that's not an answer 19:28 < skelterjohn> not the answer you are looking for, anyway 19:28 < MissPiggy> why does stuff fall "because they want to be on the floor" 19:28 <+iant> we're back to that again; what is an answer? 19:28 < skelterjohn> so, you are asking "why are people interested in go?"? 19:28 < MissPiggy> I suppose one reasonable guess would be "lots of google-loving people made this language more popular than if it wasn't affiliated" 19:29 < MissPiggy> but I don't really want to believe that, and I don't see how to test it anyway 19:29 <+iant> good, let's go with that one and move on 19:29 < kerozen> MissPiggy: may i suggest you, when you join a chan, to read the topic and follow links provided ? 19:29 <+iant> aw, snap 19:29 < MissPiggy> kerozen: thanks for the hint, which I did do btw 19:29 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5ad1d7d2.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:29 < MissPiggy> I don't care about the bug tracker or common problems though, since I'm not having any difficulty programming in Go 19:30 < MissPiggy> so not sure why you are goading me with this advice but thanks 19:30 < dho> This is really starting to lose novelty quickly. 19:30 < skelterjohn> well, i guess this beats the silence that occupies this channel a lot of the time 19:30 < dho> I disagree. 19:30 < MissPiggy> dho, read what I said a moment ago 19:30 < skelterjohn> but i'd prefer the discussion center around more interesting things 19:31 < kerozen> MissPiggy: but if you did so, as you say, you'll know how to install go and compile your hello world! ... 19:31 -!- hevalbaranov [n=hevalbar@88.252.167.164] has joined #go-nuts 19:31 * dho adds the troll to the ignore list and goes elsewhere. 19:36 < LuitvD> Guido has his language 19:36 < LuitvD> but he didn't just appear out of the blue 19:37 < dho> We're still talking to it? really? 19:37 < LuitvD> to what? 19:37 < MissPiggy> LuitvD, I've been demoted to 'it' for being such a terrible troll 19:38 < MissPiggy> just a game me and dho play, where he pretends to hate me and I pretend not to care 19:38 < happy> MissPiggy: I just got here. And if I had +o, I would be one of the people who would ban you in an instant. You are a troll. 19:38 < MissPiggy> happy fuck you then 19:38 * LuitvD puts another treat on his hand, waiting for MissPiggy to snag it off again 19:39 < happy> MissPiggy: I have a new question 19:39 < happy> why are YOU here 19:39 < MissPiggy> happy want a chatlog so you have some context? 19:39 < happy> I have the entire chatlog 19:40 * LuitvD was just typing "I think he has one" 19:40 < happy> I read through just about all of it 19:40 < LuitvD> fast reader then 19:40 < happy> :-) 19:40 < LuitvD> (lots of bullshit, so easy speed-reading I guess) 19:40 < happy> yep 19:41 < LuitvD> reading it fixed-width or variable-width font? 19:41 < skelterjohn> lol 19:41 < happy> variable 19:41 < happy> easier on the eyes 19:41 < LuitvD> :-D 19:41 < LuitvD> expected that 19:41 < LuitvD> faster to read condensed 19:44 -!- murodese [n=James@124-169-186-155.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:44 * LuitvD has a way too flaky connection to really be using IRC properly 19:44 < anticw> iant: if the gc in the future is reference count based, will that mean finalizers are called promptly? 19:44 < skelterjohn> if your connection is too flakey to handle irc... you are in trouble 19:45 < LuitvD> I know 19:45 < LuitvD> I'm quite pissy about it 19:45 < skelterjohn> anticw: what's a finalizer? nothing turned up in the lang faq 19:45 < LuitvD> the ADSL-connection I'm using is also used by about 20 others... 19:45 < jhh> i guess he means a destructor. are there any? 19:46 < LuitvD> do we need any? 19:46 < skelterjohn> not in the language...maybe a particular aspect of the gc? 19:46 <+iant> anticw: yes, I think so 19:46 < LuitvD> you'll have to make your own constructors, so destructors are the same jazz, right? 19:47 < skelterjohn> well, a destructor in the sense of "the runtime calls this function right before the obj is deleted" .... i don't think that will exist 19:47 < skelterjohn> but if you have a function that cleans stuff up when you're done with it, sure you can write that :) 19:47 < LuitvD> for special types like file handlers there is, right? 19:47 < skelterjohn> but you'd have to call it manually 19:48 < skelterjohn> you mean like close() functions? 19:48 < LuitvD> hm, ... 19:48 * LuitvD begins to doubt that 19:49 < dho> refcounted GC will be nice. 19:49 < dho> will also make FFIs more sane. 19:50 < anticw> iant: surely reference counting means locked cycles on x86 ... and cache line ping-pong ... i wonder how much that would hurt in normal use? 19:50 < reppie> anticw only one way to find out 19:51 < dho> oh noes it's teh googreppje 19:51 < reppie> hi 19:51 < LuitvD> reppje? 19:52 < LuitvD> :-O 19:52 < skelterjohn> still curious about what a finalizer is 19:52 * LuitvD still doesn't know who he's facing 19:53 -!- jhh [i=seth@schatten.darksystem.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 19:54 < LuitvD> skelterjohn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finalizer 19:54 -!- jdpo [n=joe@66-169-176-49.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:54 -!- jhh [n=jhh@g227203106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:55 < happy> skelterjohn: looks like a destructor 19:55 < LuitvD> skelterjohn: I guess it's a special destructor... 19:55 < LuitvD> to make sure the garbage-collector can do it's work efficiently 19:55 < LuitvD> I guess... 19:55 < skelterjohn> thanks 19:56 < LuitvD> destroying child objects (pointed to by the destructor) quick and painlessly so it doen't take any new ref-counting trouble to find those 19:56 < LuitvD> possibly 19:57 -!- jalmeida [n=jalmeida@c9340a2e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 19:57 < LuitvD> (completely hypothetically speaking here, I have no knowledge of language design whatsoever) 19:58 < LuitvD> (being a first-year student Applied Computer Science nobody distantly expects this from me) 19:59 < MissPiggy> what sort of stuff do you do in Applied Computer Science? 19:59 -!- res [n=res@unaffiliated/res] has quit ["rage quit"] 19:59 -!- KillerX [n=anant@145-116-234-40.uilenstede.casema.nl] has joined #go-nuts 20:00 < LuitvD> up until now just learning to use some programming languages 20:00 < LuitvD> (my fellow students started learning to use Java) 20:00 < LuitvD> (not me, I'm too good for that junk) 20:00 * happy hates java 20:00 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_science#Applied_Computer_Science 20:00 * happy was forced to use it in APCS 20:01 * LuitvD likes how many smart people (people who I think of as awesome people) hate Java too 20:01 < LuitvD> APCS? 20:01 < LuitvD> Applied Practical? 20:01 < LuitvD> XD 20:01 < happy> Advanced Placement Computer Science. I am in high school :-P 20:01 < MissPiggy> LuitvD, this doesn't make sense 'The following areas are often studied from a more theoretical, computer science viewpoint, as well as from a more practical, engineering perspective.' 20:02 < LuitvD> happy: oh dear, you learnt that god-aweful language in high school already? 20:02 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: look at the pictures and name tags below them that are gathered in the box after that line 20:02 < happy> LuitvD: yep. Good thing it was not my first language (or anywhere near 4th) 20:03 < happy> MissPiggy: that sentence makes sense. 20:03 * LuitvD learnt about 10 languages before being forced into learning (some) java 20:03 < happy> lol 20:03 -!- moraes_ [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has joined #go-nuts 20:03 < happy> I "know" quite a few 20:03 < LuitvD> (which was about half a year ago 20:04 < LuitvD> when I started my ACS study here) 20:04 < jhh_> I could imagine more useful occupations than learning 10 programming languages or bashing java ;) 20:04 < happy> APCS was the 2nd most boring class ever (math beats it) 20:04 < MissPiggy> heh jhh_ 20:05 < happy> jhh_: but it is so much fun :-P 20:05 < LuitvD> :P 20:05 < LuitvD> wasn't Math also fun? 20:06 < anticw> reppje: i actually have code somewhere that tests locked cycle increments across many threads/cores, it's not devastatingly slow 20:06 < reppje> anticw it depends on the cpu 20:06 < anticw> reppje: i explicitly talked about x86 20:07 < reppje> there are a lot of different x86 cpus 20:07 < LuitvD> is it possible to have the GC work concurrently? 20:07 < LuitvD> having your program running uninterrupted in one thread, and the GC in another? 20:07 < LuitvD> (would be awesome for real-time software) 20:08 -!- afurlan [n=afurlan@scorpion.mps.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 20:11 < skelterjohn> in highschool, i just took the AP CS exam without the burden of taking the class 20:11 < skelterjohn> saved a lot of time 20:12 < happy> skelterjohn: They would not let me do that :-\ 20:12 < skelterjohn> pfft 20:12 < happy> I envy you 20:12 < skelterjohn> you don't have to ask "them" 20:12 < skelterjohn> you can take an AP exam without going through your highschool 20:12 < happy> skelterjohn: I wish I had thought of that :-) 20:13 < LuitvD> with the half-semester where I should've learnt Java the first thing I did was let the main teacher let me do the final test 20:13 < skelterjohn> the teacher was nice enough to lend me the text for a week so i could look at the case study (which i did for all of 5 minutes) 20:13 < LuitvD> which I passed with only half a day's worth of Java learning 20:13 < happy> lol 20:14 < LuitvD> (easy, if you can do C++) 20:14 < happy> I could have had a free the whole year... 20:14 < happy> LuitvD: I knew C and python. 20:14 < LuitvD> I could've passed this year with about 10 hours of class-time 20:14 < happy> put them together. Taking only the worse from both and you have java 20:14 -!- Xera^ [n=brit@87-194-208-246.bethere.co.uk] has quit ["( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.21 :: www.esnation.com )"] 20:14 < skelterjohn> you know, you people are too down on java 20:15 < skelterjohn> it's a perfectly good language with a great standard library 20:15 < LuitvD> *ahem* 20:15 < skelterjohn> i find it easy to write java code to do what i want, and it runs pretty fast 20:15 < happy> skelterjohn: maybe it is the fact it was forced on me... 20:15 < LuitvD> I hate many things about Java 20:15 < LuitvD> it's a perfectly good language, true 20:15 < skelterjohn> "hating" a programming language is silly, imo 20:15 < LuitvD> but it's an ugly one 20:15 < skelterjohn> and aesthetics are a personal thing 20:16 < LuitvD> so I intended on not using it 20:16 < skelterjohn> i think it looks fine 20:16 < happy> LuitvD: if it is ugly... what is Go? 20:16 < LuitvD> Go is ... different 20:16 < skelterjohn> i think go is very slick looking 20:16 < skelterjohn> i like go code 20:16 < LuitvD> Go is special :) 20:16 < LuitvD> and I'm beginning to see more nice bits 20:16 < LuitvD> I like it 20:17 < LuitvD> and I like any language of which I could "learn it's ways" 20:17 < LuitvD> and I could never EVER learn Java's ways 20:17 < dho> I recently had to do a fair amount of work in Java 20:17 < LuitvD> not even if you removed my frontal lobe 20:17 < dho> it wasn't so bad 20:18 < skelterjohn> i suppose i shouldn't fault you for having an irrational desire to never use a particular language... i'm like that with matlab 20:18 < LuitvD> ugh, don't get me started on matlab 20:19 < LuitvD> had to use that for signal-processing in my second year of Electronic Engineering & Design 20:19 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn: me too 20:19 < MissPiggy> skelterjohn: although it's because the implementation is closed, and I think that is slightly rational 20:20 < reppje> skelterjohn just because you don't understand the reason doesn't mean it's irrational 20:20 -!- idea_squirrel [n=ct2rips@77-21-31-189-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:20 < skelterjohn> i think it's a perfectly serviceable prototyping language, but it's not appropriate for big systems 20:20 < LuitvD> it's never appropriate 20:20 < dho> what, java? 20:20 < dho> sorry, but that's false. 20:20 < skelterjohn> matlab, now 20:20 < dho> oh 20:20 < dho> never used it 20:20 < skelterjohn> and matlab is most definitely appropriate for some situations 20:21 < skelterjohn> it has the most concise syntax for complex LA stuff that i am aware of 20:21 < skelterjohn> and it does LA operations very well 20:21 < skelterjohn> people in machine learning use it a lot 20:21 -!- moraes [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:22 < LuitvD> maybe I'm not seeing it's potential 20:22 < LuitvD> (possibly because of the way I had it taught) 20:23 < LuitvD> (they made me build extremely simple filtering stuff) 20:24 < LuitvD> (and everyone told me I was good at it, even though I repeatedly told them it was nothing close to impressive) 20:26 < LuitvD> seems like I always have that problem 20:26 < LuitvD> ... 20:26 < happy> Java is the only language I did not teach myself... 20:27 -!- moraes_ [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28 < LuitvD> I start learning some stuff, look for more knowledge by enrolling in a course on that subject, follow the course and realize it's just what I learned already, asking for more to learn and getting nothing and finally finishing the course having learnt nothing 20:29 -!- wrtp [n=rog@78.150.174.161] has quit [] 20:29 < skelterjohn> at rutgers, the intro courses are taught in java 20:29 < LuitvD> in the mean time I've started learning some new stuff that'll be taught in some future course and the story repeats all over again 20:29 < skelterjohn> the first one is essentially "this is how to write java code" 20:29 < skelterjohn> and the second one is datastructres in java 20:29 < happy> LuitvD: yep. That is what happens 20:29 < skelterjohn> that's when you get to take naps at 2 in the afternoon 20:29 < LuitvD> sofar there's little I've learnt in any school 20:30 < skelterjohn> in my undergrad, the take-away i got was the mathematical aspects to CS 20:30 < happy> LuitvD: that is what happens. 20:30 < skelterjohn> i learned little about programming as an undergrad 20:30 < LuitvD> luckily I can now start with a second-year intern-ship 20:31 * skelterjohn pictures a ship full of interns setting sail 20:31 < happy> I need to look for an internship 20:31 < happy> but I have no ideas where 20:31 * LuitvD hates his spellchecker 20:32 < LuitvD> (additionally, it was very hard to decide on `internship` or `intern-ship` because of my native language) 20:32 < skelterjohn> :) 20:33 < LuitvD> my native language tends to stick everything imaginable together as a single word 20:34 -!- andhul [n=andhul@zreahese.hus.sgsnet.se] has joined #go-nuts 20:34 < happy> LuitvD: what language? 20:34 < happy> go? 20:34 < LuitvD> I wish 20:34 < happy> lol 20:34 -!- moraes [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has joined #go-nuts 20:34 < happy> that was a serious question though. what is your native language? 20:35 < MissPiggy> finnish 20:35 < LuitvD> guess :) 20:35 < MissPiggy> romanian? 20:35 < happy> LuitvD: C++? 20:35 < happy> LuitvD: I am not guessing 20:35 < LuitvD> lol 20:36 < MissPiggy> turkish? 20:36 < LuitvD> a language which can have eight consonants in a row 20:36 < LuitvD> nope 20:36 < MissPiggy> hungarian? 20:36 < LuitvD> nope, not even close 20:36 < happy> what?! 20:36 < MissPiggy> hmmm 20:36 < happy> 8 consonats? 20:37 < happy> no human language has that :-P 20:37 < LuitvD> mine has :) 20:37 < happy> german? 20:37 < LuitvD> these letters: ngstschr 20:37 < happy> german? 20:37 < skelterjohn> polish 20:37 < MissPiggy> dutch! 20:37 < LuitvD> yeah 20:37 < LuitvD> dutch 20:38 < reppje> ik hou van jou 20:38 < skelterjohn> i still think it's polish 20:38 < happy> LuitvD: I was about to google your name 20:38 < LuitvD> ngstschr is in the word "angstschreeuw" 20:38 < happy> Drongelen, a country would need to come up 20:38 < LuitvD> (meaning scream of fear) 20:38 < skelterjohn> oh - that's just two words pushed together 20:38 < LuitvD> :P 20:38 < LuitvD> compound word :) true 20:38 < LuitvD> but it's pronounced as one 20:38 < LuitvD> and written as one 20:39 < LuitvD> that's the trouble I'm having with English 20:40 < LuitvD> reppje: is that all the dutch you know? 20:40 < dho> skelterjohn: we have compound w ords :P 20:40 * LuitvD lold 20:40 < dho> LuitvD: dutch isn't as bad as german with that 20:40 < LuitvD> darkroom is a compound word 20:40 -!- nanoo [n=nano@95-89-197-218-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit ["Leaving"] 20:41 * LuitvD hates being Dutch when using English 20:41 < dho> why 20:41 < LuitvD> it's so easy to pick out Dutch people speaking English 20:42 < LuitvD> (when you're Dutch yourself and know enough English) 20:42 < dho> like actually speaking? 20:42 < reppje> LuitvD yes 20:42 -!- Venom_X [n=pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [] 20:42 < LuitvD> dho: yeah, speaking 20:42 < LuitvD> dho: but sometimes even in writing 20:42 < dho> yeah you guys have a pretty distinctive accent 20:42 -!- ashaw [n=ashaw@58.108.161.163] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 20:42 < LuitvD> certain constructions 20:42 < dho> writing too 20:42 < dho> yeah 20:43 < LuitvD> I even have that with some dialects of Dutch compared to common dutch 20:43 < dho> translating idioms that do actually work in english but are used all the time in dutch 20:43 < dho> heh 20:43 < dho> i remember one time margriet was talking about ABN and instead of saying ABN, she said ABC 20:43 < LuitvD> :| 20:44 -!- plainhao [n=plainhao@mail.xbiotica.com] has quit [] 20:44 < dho> but some of your words are just begging to be mis-used 20:44 < dho> like, no dutch person every says `pull off' in english 20:45 < LuitvD> :P 20:45 < LuitvD> some do 20:45 < dho> but if you're not a native dutch speaker it's really easy to accidentally say `aftrekken' to mean something completely different. 20:45 < LuitvD> there's some awesome booklets about common dutch-english mis-uses 20:45 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5ad1d7d2.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:46 < dho> i have a book called `dubbel dutch' which is out of print now 20:46 < dho> but it has some interesting stuff in it 20:46 < LuitvD> dho: aftrekken isn't always odd to use 20:46 < LuitvD> dho: just like klaar komen 20:46 < dho> yeah well 20:47 < dho> pro-tip: don't use it when talking about pulling a plug from an electrical outlet :P 20:47 < LuitvD> (because that naughty word is compound, klaarkomen) 20:47 < LuitvD> :P 20:47 < dho> for instance the book has a section on `toch', `toch maar', `toch maar eens' and `toch maar eens even' 20:47 < LuitvD> like: Trek die stekker eens af 20:48 < LuitvD> the book I meant was "I always get my sin" :P 20:48 < LuitvD> with constructions like "I thank you from the bottom of my hart" 20:48 < dho> i like that section because it's really funny to see how you can add a bunch of words that really have no meaning to actually add meaning. 20:49 < LuitvD> and also from my wife's bottom 20:49 < LuitvD> or... "I do not want to fall with the door in house" 20:49 < dho> how about unfortunately peanut butter 20:49 * dho loves that one 20:50 < LuitvD> yeah 20:50 -!- u4ia [n=weechat@quepasa.solcon.nl] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 20:50 < LuitvD> that's typically dutch 20:50 < LuitvD> this one: How do you do and how do you do your wife? 20:50 < dho> there's a dutch construction 20:50 < dho> right there 20:50 < LuitvD> Hoe gaat het, en hoe gaat het met je vrouw 20:50 < LuitvD> way to literally translated 20:50 < dho> how goes it and how goes it with your wife? 20:51 < dho> a literal translation would work fine 20:51 < dho> how do you do is a figurative (and outdated) translation 20:51 < LuitvD> the "I always get my sin" is filled with those unfortunate mistranslations 20:52 -!- u4ia [n=weechat@quepasa.solcon.nl] has joined #go-nuts 20:53 < LuitvD> this one's bad: What do you? 20:53 < dho> hahahaha 20:53 < LuitvD> that's "Wat doe je?" translated word by word 20:53 -!- wrtp [n=rog@78.150.174.161] has joined #go-nuts 20:53 < dho> what do you actually, too :) 20:53 < LuitvD> ? 20:53 < LuitvD> oh, yeah 20:54 < LuitvD> http://static.bol.com/imgbase0/BOOKCOVER/FC/9/0/4/5/3/9045302802_E3.gif 20:55 < LuitvD> should be "first female state-secretary" I guess 20:55 < dho> secretary of state 20:55 -!- wrtp [n=rog@78.150.174.161] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55 < LuitvD> and "I'm in my first term" or something like that 20:55 < dho> heh 20:55 < dho> yeah 20:55 < LuitvD> ah, good :) 20:55 < skelterjohn> "first woman secretary of state" is fine 20:55 < LuitvD> really? 20:55 < skelterjohn> yes 20:55 < LuitvD> sounds way too dutch :P 20:55 < skelterjohn> actually, probably "first woman secretary of the interior" 20:56 < skelterjohn> rather than of the inside :) 20:56 < LuitvD> possibly 20:56 < LuitvD> in any way, this is the worst construction to use 20:56 < LuitvD> the worst mistranslation of that sentence humanly possible 20:57 < dho> if you want to see some good mistranslations, watch `Godforsaken' 20:57 < LuitvD> "I could not find the head entrance" :P 20:57 < dho> (The english title for Van God Los) 20:57 < skelterjohn> head = bathroom? 20:57 < skelterjohn> or main entrance 20:57 < LuitvD> head = main 20:57 -!- wrtp [n=rog@78.150.174.161] has joined #go-nuts 20:57 < LuitvD> main is "hoofd" in dutch 20:57 < LuitvD> same word for head 20:57 < dho> the title's already an awful mistranslation 20:57 < LuitvD> yeah 20:57 < skelterjohn> what does "van god los" mean 20:58 < dho> essentially `disconnected from god' 20:58 < LuitvD> what's the right translation of "Ik krijg altijd mijn zin"? 20:58 < dho> LuitvD: I always get my way 20:58 < skelterjohn> dho: that is what godforsaken means 20:58 * LuitvD guessed right then 20:58 < dho> skelterjohn: not really 20:58 < skelterjohn> if god has forsaken you, you are disconnected from god 20:58 < LuitvD> hahaha 20:59 < skelterjohn> though i suppose as a computer scientist i should realize that the converse is not the inverse 20:59 < dho> yes, but that requires god to forsake you 20:59 < LuitvD> and "van god los" is the person's decision 20:59 < dho> right 20:59 < dho> they are very clearly distancing themselves from god, even in the face of ways out 20:59 < dho> in their actions in the movie 21:00 < dho> it would probably make more sense if you saw it / knew what it was about 21:00 < LuitvD> heheh 21:00 < LuitvD> it's hard to explain movies through writing 21:00 < LuitvD> oh dear: "This is wet finger work" 21:00 < dho> i do wonder what happened to the `anna' 21:00 * LuitvD hides 21:01 < dho> heh 21:01 < LuitvD> nattevingerwerk means something quite different 21:01 < dho> LuitvD: some day i want to stand up in the office and scream `PAUSE' 21:01 < LuitvD> :) 21:01 -!- xat_ [n=xavier@189.27.126.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 21:02 < LuitvD> dho: I have another one like unfortunately peanut butter 21:02 < LuitvD> "All madness on a small stick" 21:02 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5ad1d7d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:03 < dho> unfamiliar with that one 21:03 < LuitvD> alle gekheid op een stokje 21:04 -!- ericvh_ [n=ericvh@32.97.110.65] has joined #go-nuts 21:04 < dho> yeah, never heard that 21:06 * LuitvD is thinking hard to get the english equivalent 21:06 < dho> LuitvD: feel free to give me contextual use 21:06 < dho> i don't need an explination if you show me when you'd say it 21:06 < dho> idioms are good like that :) 21:07 * dho is convinced that americans acronymized lol 21:07 < LuitvD> "Do me a lol" 21:08 < dho> hahaha 21:08 < dho> do me a funny. 21:10 -!- JSharpe [n=jamie@5ad1d7d2.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:11 -!- JSharpe2 [n=jamie@5ad1d7d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Connection timed out] 21:11 < dho> i'd like to see literal translations with `toch maar eens even' 21:11 < dho> i don't even know how you'd do it for toch and eens 21:11 < LuitvD> :) 21:11 < LuitvD> that's quite hard 21:12 < dho> that should i definitely but once even do if i you was 21:12 < LuitvD> especially because I know enough English to know the correct translation 21:12 < dho> maybe 21:13 < LuitvD> hm, no, that's not humanly possible 21:14 < LuitvD> if someone knows the word definitely it won't use it there 21:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7b265 by [Russ Cox] in go/misc/dashboard/godashboard/ -- godashboard: fiddling 21:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7b26r by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- add definition of new parameter style 21:16 < LuitvD> meanwhile, Cox and Pike are hard at work :P 21:16 < LuitvD> eh, working hard 21:17 < happy> LuitvD: I still have not fugured out who in the irc works for google 21:17 < happy> I know cox works for google (email is a dead give away) 21:17 < happy> but if he is in the irc, it is not obvious 21:18 < LuitvD> haven't seen him here yet... 21:18 < happy> how long have you been in the chan? 21:19 < skelterjohn> i hate writing papers 21:19 < happy> skelterjohn: and I hate english regents (did 4 bs essays in two days) 21:19 * skelterjohn hopes to have a decent http://www.icml2010.org/ submission by 2/1 21:20 < LuitvD> 2/ 1? 21:20 < skelterjohn> february first 21:20 < happy> feb first 21:20 * LuitvD headdesks 21:20 < skelterjohn> you might call it 1/2/2010 21:20 * LuitvD hates the imperial notation 21:20 < LuitvD> 2010-02-01 21:20 * happy hides at the use of big words 21:20 < LuitvD> or 01-02-2010 21:21 < LuitvD> that's convenient 21:21 < LuitvD> ordered by significance 21:21 < skelterjohn> happy: i'm lucky in that i no longer have to deal with literature critiquing anymore 21:21 < happy> good for you 21:21 < happy> I am in lit hell 21:21 -!- oal [n=olav@5.79-160-122.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 21:21 < skelterjohn> but it's not like i haven't paid my dues 21:21 < happy> lol 21:22 -!- ericvh [n=ericvh@32.97.110.63] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:22 < happy> skelterjohn: what would be a good name for a path.Join that takes []string? 21:22 < happy> path.JoinAll? 21:22 < skelterjohn> i dunno 21:22 < skelterjohn> what's it do 21:22 < LuitvD> join all strings to a path I guess 21:22 < skelterjohn> what does the original path.Join do 21:23 < skelterjohn> LuitvD: underspecified 21:23 -!- adamparcher [n=adamparc@99-6-45-15.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:23 < happy> turns JoinAll([]string{"1", "2", "3"}) -> "1/2/3" 21:23 -!- chachan [n=chachan@200.44.157.246] has quit ["KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3763, sources date: 20091222, built on: 2010-01-08 08:47:55 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/"] 21:24 < skelterjohn> path.Concat 21:24 < skelterjohn> or path.Cat 21:24 < happy> skelterjohn: the original is already called Join 21:24 < skelterjohn> which is why i suggested Concat or Cat 21:24 < happy> It should probably include Join in the name 21:25 < happy> JoinAll, JoinSlice... 21:25 < skelterjohn> do you just call path.Join a bunch of times? 21:25 < happy> no 21:25 < skelterjohn> you should :) 21:25 < happy> skelterjohn: I think my way is more efficient with less calls. Not that something this small matters 21:25 < skelterjohn> reduce({"1","2","3"}, path.Join) 21:26 < happy> what is this reduce?! 21:26 < skelterjohn> the point being, ifyou just call Join then changes to Join work in your function as well 21:26 < skelterjohn> reduce is a list operation 21:26 < skelterjohn> it's not part of the go standard library 21:26 < happy> cool 21:26 < LuitvD> reduce is a common operation with lists 21:27 < LuitvD> zips through the list passing two (or sometimes more) items of the list to a function and putting the function's return value back in it 21:27 < happy> ok 21:28 < skelterjohn> well, reduce might not be the right one here 21:28 < happy> good to know :-) 21:28 < skelterjohn> since the order of arguments in Join is important 21:28 < happy> I would have to make a whole loop for that 21:28 < happy> ok 21:28 < happy> I am going to leave my function how it is and submit it. After testing of course :-) 21:28 < skelterjohn> i definitely think you should use path.Join 21:29 < skelterjohn> if you think path.Join is efficient, also submit a new version of it 21:29 < happy> skelterjohn: hm... 21:30 < happy> I am not sure if it matters, but I did not want to call join a bunch of times 21:30 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 21:30 < happy> my func just calls strings.join once 21:30 < LuitvD> is it path safe? 21:30 < happy> define safe... 21:31 < LuitvD> working properly on all operating systems? 21:31 < LuitvD> with all possible input? 21:31 < happy> I think it works on all the unix operating systems. Which is all go supports now 21:31 < skelterjohn> this is why you call path.Join as a subroutine 21:32 < happy> fine :-P 21:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7b5ky by [Russ Cox] in go/misc/dashboard/ -- dashboard: look for key in $GOROOT before $HOME 21:32 < LuitvD> when Windows will be added to the supported platforms, you'll be happy you used path.Join 21:32 < LuitvD> oh wait, you're already happy ... o.O 21:33 * LuitvD hides 21:33 < happy> LuitvD: did I tell you how I got my name? 21:33 < skelterjohn> correctness is more important than efficiency for somethin glike join 21:33 < LuitvD> happy: nope 21:33 * LuitvD can imagine some ways 21:33 < happy> if I did, you would know happy is against my personality 21:33 < skelterjohn> that's sad 21:34 < happy> LuitvD: I needed a freenode name and I was tired 21:34 < happy> I tried sleepy 21:34 < happy> it was taken 21:34 < LuitvD> XD 21:34 < skelterjohn> should have chosen grumpy 21:34 < happy> I then thought of dwarfs 21:34 < happy> grumpy was my second try 21:34 < skelterjohn> well 21:34 * LuitvD lols 21:34 < skelterjohn> ok 21:34 < happy> it is also taken 21:34 < happy> you can test it 21:34 < happy> happy was the first one not taken 21:35 < happy> maybe I should have tried dopey... 21:35 < LuitvD> registered 14 weeks and 1 day ago, last used 13 weeks en 6 days ago 21:35 < happy> what is that? dopey? 21:35 < happy> grumpy? 21:35 < LuitvD> grumpy 21:35 < happy> ok 21:35 < happy> well... I tried to get grumpy :-P 21:36 < happy> I need a new name. If you can think of one. Let me know 21:36 < smw> what? it is not taken? 21:36 * LuitvD used his nick since ... gmail 21:36 < smw> ... 21:37 < smw> should I use this? 21:37 < LuitvD> smw? 21:37 < smw> initials 21:37 < LuitvD> ah 21:37 * LuitvD needs a double acetaminophen 21:37 < soul9> HA 21:37 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@248.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:38 < smw> I am going to register this. 21:38 -!- adamparcher [n=adamparc@99-6-45-15.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38 -!- p4p4_ [n=P4p4@248.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 21:38 < soul9> anyone see http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.gcc.devel/111603 ? 21:39 < MissPiggy> someone from google must be sleeping with someone from gcc.. 21:39 < LuitvD> huh, I can't register a nick when identified? 21:39 < smw> LuitvD: you need to group it 21:39 -!- amacleod [n=amacleod@c-75-69-45-62.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit ["Bye Bye"] 21:39 < MissPiggy> congrats 21:39 < smw> /ns group NormalName 21:39 < soul9> heh 21:40 < skelterjohn> iant has been involved in the gcc project for a long time 21:40 <+iant> yes, that was mostly sorting through the licensing issues 21:40 < LuitvD> and since iant always sleeps with himself, what MissPiggy said is true 21:41 <+iant> that was one of the impetuses for adding the explicit patent grant to the license 21:41 <+iant> the FSF wanted to see it 21:41 <+iant> (and so did some other people) 21:41 < skelterjohn> iant: does this mean next time i install the latest version of gcc, that gccgo will be built in? 21:41 < MissPiggy> suddenly go seems like a much more realistic language for the future than the rest of the ones I was lumping it in with earlier 21:42 < skelterjohn> rofl 21:42 <+iant> skelterjohn: not yet; I expect that gccgo will be included in gcc 4.6, but the next release will be 4.5 21:42 <+iant> we are close to making the release branch for 4.5 21:42 < smw> wow 21:43 < soul9> so in gentoo ~x86 it will be soon(ish) :P 21:43 < smw> why do we have two compilers for go? 21:43 < skelterjohn> I am glad to see progress with getting go to be mainline. 21:43 < skelterjohn> smw: because gcc makes really fast code 21:43 < skelterjohn> and iant volunteered to do it 21:43 < soul9> but doesn't build static executables 21:44 <+iant> gcc *can* build static executables 21:44 < LuitvD> smw: one for speed, one for interoperability? 21:44 <+iant> oh, I see what you mean, sorry 21:44 < smw> skelterjohn: so it is fast compiles vs fast code. How can I ever chose between them :-) 21:44 < LuitvD> smw: simple: fast compile = testing, fast code = release 21:44 < smw> I choose fast code :-P 21:45 < smw> LuitvD: I like that idea :-) 21:45 < skelterjohn> I'm not sure that gccgo compiles slowly... 21:45 <+iant> gccgo isn't too bad but it's a lot slower than 6g 21:45 < skelterjohn> the language's grammar lends itself to fast compilation 21:45 < LuitvD> not as fast as 6g 21:45 < LuitvD> (beaten) 21:45 * LuitvD is the slow one 21:45 < dho> skelterjohn: a lot of the time isn't parsing, but optimizing. 21:45 < soul9> static executable = interoperable through the same arch 21:45 < LuitvD> I bet gccgo is faster than I am 21:46 < skelterjohn> then we may see 6g slow down, as it gets smarter about optimizing 21:46 < LuitvD> who knows 21:47 < smw> if go makes it into the offical gcc (and on most distros) I will be happy :-) 21:47 < LuitvD> the way Go handles dependencies makes it fast 21:47 < LuitvD> s/fast/compile fast/ 21:48 < MissPiggy> can you interact with C libraries very easily using Go? 21:48 < MissPiggy> like you don't have to make 'bindings' and all that rubbish 21:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7b8Or by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- note that ...T is not yet implemented. 21:48 -!- ericvh_ [n=ericvh@32.97.110.65] has quit [Client Quit] 21:51 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: everything that's not C need C bindings for libraries with no native library access 21:52 < dho> should i stop ignoring it now? 21:53 < smw> dho: it seems to be talking like a human. I do not see any reason not to treat it like a person 21:53 < MissPiggy> LuitvD, I don't argee 21:53 < dho> ok 21:53 < LuitvD> MissPiggy: why? 21:54 < MissPiggy> LuitvD, well there are some lisp systems where you don't have to write bindings because you can just use the C functions directly 21:54 < LuitvD> err... yeah 21:55 < dho> MissPiggy: With the 6g and 6c compilers, you can call C code and C code can call Go code. 21:55 < LuitvD> with cgo you can do something like that 21:55 < MissPiggy> dho fuck off 21:55 < dho> No. 21:55 < MissPiggy> sounds cool LuitvD 21:55 < LuitvD> though bindings are not just to use the libs 21:55 -!- p4p4 [n=P4p4@248.121.113.82.net.de.o2.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 21:55 < MissPiggy> dho just piss off, it was fine when you weren't here causing a fuss calling people names 21:55 < LuitvD> it's to translate the native interface to a Go-ified interface 21:55 < dho> Grow up, kid. 21:56 < dho> LuitvD: not exactly 21:56 < LuitvD> mostly 21:56 < smw> MissPiggy: you need to treat him kindly. Before you were acting like a troll. He is now talking to you like a human. Don't prove his point 21:56 -!- Wiz126 [i=Wiz126@72.20.219.199] has joined #go-nuts 21:57 < LuitvD> dho: with cairo, nearly all functions were called with the cairo_t* as the first argument 21:57 < LuitvD> in an OO-ish language that'd become a method for that type 21:57 < dho> Right, but it's less of a translation than a shim layer 21:57 < LuitvD> and type translation almost always needs to be done 21:59 < soul9> is there a cgi interface for go? web framework? CMS? :P 21:59 < dho> soul9: yes, yes, no. 21:59 < smw> web.go 21:59 < soul9> cool 21:59 < soul9> ooh 21:59 < soul9> thanks 21:59 * soul9 digs 22:00 < dho> I believe it's getwebgo.com 22:00 -!- andhul [n=andhul@zreahese.hus.sgsnet.se] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00 < dho> or .org or something 22:00 < LuitvD> .com 22:01 < soul9> getwebgo.com yep 22:03 < dho> LuitvD: it is also worth noting that if you do compile C code with 6c, cgo is unnecessary 22:04 < LuitvD> ah, yes 22:06 < dho> Would be interesting to have a posix libc implementation that is compilable with 6c. 22:07 < dho> iant: Once there is a Go compiler in Go, 6c won't die will it? 22:08 <+iant> dho: I think a bigger issue would be whether all the C code will ever be removed from the runtime 22:08 < dho> I think there's a good case for not removing the asm at least 22:08 <+iant> yes, for sure 22:08 < dho> well that's good. 22:16 < LuitvD> I need to get some rest 22:16 < dho> truste 22:16 < LuitvD> my head is nearly exploding 22:16 < LuitvD> I feel aweful 22:16 -!- e4f6217c2e [n=vk@adsl-18-65-187.sdf.bellsouth.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:16 < LuitvD> s/awe/aw/ 22:16 -!- LuitvD [n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd] has quit ["bleh"] 22:17 < smw> skelterjohn: http://codereview.appspot.com/195077/show happy? I did it your way :-P. 22:23 < skelterjohn> hooray 22:23 -!- carllerche [n=carllerc@enginey-9.border1.sfo002.pnap.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 -!- Venom_X [n=pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 < e4f6217c2e> Hello. Congratulations to Ian Taylor on getting the gccgo frontend into gcc! What is the state of garbage collection in the frontend? 22:29 -!- d3xter [i=5d5278c4@gateway/web/freenode/x-efbazmmvaiikvwwi] has joined #go-nuts 22:39 -!- xat_ [n=xavier@189.27.126.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 22:40 -!- ShadowIce [n=pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit ["Verlassend"] 22:45 <+iant> e4f6217c2e: thanks; there is still no real garbage collection, though I'm working on it 22:48 -!- e4f6217c2e [n=vk@adsl-18-65-187.sdf.bellsouth.net] has left #go-nuts [] 22:55 < droid0011> iant: how should I cross-compile 5* for arm, with GOARCH=arm all-arm.bash or all.bash ? 22:56 -!- fgb [n=fgb@190.246.85.45] has joined #go-nuts 22:56 <+iant> droid0011: I think all-arm.bash is right; basically it omits some things which don't build for the ARM yet 22:57 -!- bl3u [n=me@24-107-152-12.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58 -!- deso [n=deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 22:59 -!- wrtp [n=rog@78.150.174.161] has quit [Client Quit] 23:04 -!- moraes [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:05 -!- r2p2 [n=billy@v32671.1blu.de] has left #go-nuts [] 23:05 -!- Associat0r [n=Associat@h163153.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [] 23:05 -!- moraes [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has joined #go-nuts 23:14 -!- gnuvince_ [n=vince@ip-117.43.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:15 -!- xat_ [n=xavier@189.27.126.122.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 23:15 -!- General13372 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:15 -!- moraes [n=moraes@187.39.158.51] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has joined #go-nuts 23:18 < droid0011> iant: thanks, but I must be doing something wrong. I tried to compile simple print("hello word") but the arm binary is not working: qemu-arm -cpu cortex-a8 ./5.out gives me "mmap: Invalid argument" and on an android device the process just get killed :( 23:18 <+iant> droid0011: sorry, no idea; send a note to the list and/or kaib 23:18 <+iant> I haven't used the ARM port 23:18 < dho> I think the ARM port generates ARM-5 code. 23:19 -!- nigwil [n=chatzill@berkner.ccamlr.org] has left #go-nuts [] 23:19 < uriel> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/auhvk/go_frontend_to_gcc_accepted_for_inclusion/ 23:19 < uriel> iant: congrats! 23:20 <+iant> thanks 23:21 < mpl> dho: afaik at some point it wasn't and kai was thinking of doing so given the number of platforms which were arm5. 23:22 < dho> ah 23:22 < fgb> qemu-arm -cpu cortex-a8 ./5.out .. doesn't qemu need a kernel as argument.. 23:22 < fgb> I'm I completely missed the point? 23:23 < fgb> *am 23:23 < dho> GOARM=x will apparently specify what arm arch to generate for 23:23 < mpl> yes 23:23 < dho> not sure what the default is 23:23 < mpl> you need to set goarm and rerun make-arm 23:24 < dho> ah, it defaults to 6 i guess 23:24 < dho> but 23:24 < dho> I don't think that's pertinent anymore 23:25 < dho> only reference I see to it is in pkg/runtime/Makefile 23:25 -!- gnuvince [n=vince@70.35.165.199] has quit [Connection timed out] 23:30 < fgb> droid0011, you still there? 23:30 < droid0011> yes 23:31 < fgb> so, you tried 5.out as if it was a kernel, is that supposed to work? 23:31 < fgb> and there also the matter of what libraries were linked to that 5.out and if those libs where compatible with android 23:32 < fgb> *there's 23:32 < droid0011> oh 23:32 -!- General1337 [n=support@71-84-247-187.dhcp.gldl.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:33 < fgb> damn, my english is worst than ever today 23:33 < fgb> anyways, that should give you some pointers 23:34 -!- tomestla [n=tom@AToulouse-151-1-43-103.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 23:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7btY5 by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/ -- gc: implement defer print/println/panic/panicln 23:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7btYg by [Ken Thompson] in 7 subdirs of go/src/cmd/ -- change print print buffer size 23:36 < droid0011> fgb: thanks, I found this in test/run-arm: export E="qemu-arm -cpu cortex-a8 so I think it actually should work ... 23:44 -!- jophish [n=jophish@hermi.gotadsl.co.uk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 23:45 -!- jhh_ [n=jhh@g227203106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [] 23:47 -!- grizzlysmit [n=grizzlys@123-243-91-241.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 23:47 -!- grizzlysmit [n=grizzlys@123-243-91-241.tpgi.com.au] has left #go-nuts [] 23:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7bwU1 by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/misc/dashboard/ -- dashboard: builder tweaks 23:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7bwUb by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/talks/ -- ucsd cns talk, focused on networking 23:53 -!- chachan [n=chachan@201.208.206.105] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Thu Jan 28 00:00:50 2010