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13:21 < phao> I've read that GO is an OOP.  I've also read it was made to be
a systems language.  Isn't being OOP causes the language's implementation generate
slow code (which isn't much good for systems apps)?
13:22 < phao> s/an OOP/OOP
13:22 < dagle> phao: It's not oop.
13:26 < rsaarelm> Though it does have polymorphic dispatch, which does slow
the code a bit due to an extra level of indirection.
13:26 < rsaarelm> Same as in more properly OO languages.
13:27 < rsaarelm> But if you call methods on non-interface values, I think
the compiler should be able to make the call just as fast as a regular function
call.
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13:31 < phao> Ok.
13:31 < JBeshir> phao: Object Orientated Programming is a method of
"thinking about" or "modeling" programming rather than anything precise enough to
automatically have an impact on speed.
13:32 < phao> JBeshir: I used to think just like that
13:32 < phao> but very few people I know do the same
13:32 < phao> and there are just too many definitions of OOP out there
13:32 < phao> to say that one is the right one.
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13:33 < zimbatm> http://gist.github.com/304025
13:33 < JBeshir> There's a few things typical of OOP languages or done to
implement various parts of it, like polymorphic dispatch, which have overhead, but
the inherent overhead in that isn't particularly large, I think.
13:33 < zimbatm> ^ why does map panic on unknown key ?
13:34 < zimbatm> or..  how do you detect if a key exist in a map ?
13:35 < rsaarelm> zimbatm: Read into value, bool instead of value from the
map: if val, ok := myMap[key]; ok { /* key found */ } else { /* key not found */ }
13:37 < zimbatm> ok
13:37 < zimbatm> it would be useful to have a specialized hash with default
return values :)
13:38 < zimbatm> in websocket.ServeHTTP, they check things like
req.Header["Upgrade"] != "WebSocket"
13:38 < JBeshir> Put a map inside your own object.
13:38 < zimbatm> so if the Upgrade header is not present, the server will
crash I believe ?
13:39 < JBeshir> zimbatm: Unless it's given a default value elsewhere.
13:41 < zimbatm> yes, you could prepare the http.Request for that
13:43 < zimbatm> thanks for you help :)
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16:37 < uriel> dagle: 'OOP' can mean pretty much anything, as rob pointed
out, in the original sense of OOP, Go is more Object Oriented than C++ or Java
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16:38 < uriel> but the original sense has mostly been lost due to all the
java-tards and c++-morons the world has produced
16:43 * sladegen has an urge to shout: go-dweebs, go!
16:44 < dagle> uriel: Yeah.  I would still like to use another word of what
go does, just to distinguish it.  OOP means java for to many people.
16:44 < yuuki> Does go have a garbage collector now?
16:44 < uriel> dagle: yea, I agree that the meaning of OO has been corrupted
beyond all hope of recoverty
16:45 < uriel> yuuki: go always had a garbage collector
16:45 < uriel> but the current one is being rewritten
16:45 * sladegen thinks yuuki is using gccgo...
16:45 < uriel> gccgo lacks a garbage collector, but will probably get the
new one
16:45 < yuuki> I've always sort of wondered how a garbage collector could be
involved in a systems language
16:46 < sladegen> you build gc into the system...
16:46 < yuuki> unless java counts as a systems language as well
16:46 < uriel> yuuki: er, uh?  no
16:47 < uriel> of course, the meaning of 'systems language' is not
completely clear either
16:47 < uriel> but there is no reason one could not writte a kernel in Go,
there is already a way to run Go on bare hardware
16:47 < sladegen> there is embedded java...  or some such.
16:48 < uriel> sladegen: embeded java AFAIK is quite different, you still
need a way to run/jit/whatever the bytecode
16:48 < yuuki> yeah, there are java on bare metal projects, jvm's written in
java, etc.
16:48 < yuuki> But I think it's quite a bit more difficult than running go
on bare metal
16:48 < uriel> ugh, a jvm in java sounds quite...  *scary*
16:48 < dagle> :)
16:48 < uriel> (but then, I find any jvm scary enough)
16:48 < dagle> Java does scary things indeed.
16:48 * sladegen mumbles "javaos..."
16:49 < sladegen> really google it...
16:49 < uriel> Inferno does all that, *right*
16:49 < dagle> The jvm sometimes create bytecode from compiled bitcode.  :)
16:50 < uriel> there is an ancient story about how a couple of guys at Bell
Labs ported Inferno to the Java Station and was running so much faster than JavaOS
that Lucent forbade them from releasing it to not embarrass Sun
16:50 < dagle> :)
16:51 < uriel> (oh, and II they did the port in a couple of weeks in the run
up to JavaOne or whatever the fuck it was called where they were planning to show
it...  yay for retarded management fucking it all up!)
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16:51 < dagle> Well java have gotten a few 100mbits of optimisations these
days.  ;)
16:52 < uriel> yay for 'optimizations'
16:55 < dagle> Well.  It have gotten a little bit less "I want to stab my
self"-programming in it.
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17:04 < uriel> I'm not sure, Java seems to be trying to catch up with c++'s
insanity
17:06 < rsaarelm> It's not catching up very fast though.
17:07 < rsaarelm> There isn't anything like the witchcraft you can do in C++
with template metaprogramming and preprocessor abuse in Java.
17:07 < uriel> true, but I'm sure they will think of something...
17:07 < uriel> generics are quite fucked up in java
17:08 < uriel> c++ doesn't have to deal with the autoboxing bullcrap, but
you are right that c++ templates are in a whole different level of fuckedupness
17:11 < rsaarelm> The unfortunate thing is that Java doesn't really have
that much that's nicer than C++, expressibility wise.  Thanks to the garbage
collection, you get fire and forget heap-allocated values, and idiomatic coding
conventions are established better, but otherwise it just isn't very expressive.
17:11 < rsaarelm> And then you're thinking, all of this can be done with
C++, plus all the template and macro and stack object and operator overloading
fuckery.
17:11 < uriel> didn't somebody call java: c++--?
17:12 < rsaarelm> Don't know.  Wouldn't be surprised.
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17:39 < zimbatm> hem..  is it possible to redefine the meaning of the []
operator ?
17:40 < zimbatm> it would be nice for custom hashmap implementations
17:42 < rsaarelm> There's no operator overloading.
17:42 < uriel> there has been discussion about writting your own hash
functions though in the golang-dev list
17:43 < uriel> but really, how often does one need to write a custom hasmap
implementation?
17:44 < zimbatm> uriel: when the current-one panics on unknown keys
17:44 < zimbatm> (I know, I can lookup each key if it has an error)
17:44 < zimbatm> I would much prefer a default value in some cases
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17:46 < rsaarelm> Why not use a lookup function instead of the hash syntax
then?
17:49 < zimbatm> rsaarelm: you mean use Get/Set ?
17:49 < zimbatm> (sorry, I'm new)
17:49 < zimbatm> rsaarelm: oh, maybe I am doing things to complicated,
you're right :-)
17:49 < rsaarelm> Something like that yeah.
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18:50 * dagle misses the Niether type from haskell in go.  :)
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19:10 * cbeck misses 2d arrays that were easy to work with
19:11 < cbeck> were, are, one of those existential tenses
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20:02 < cbeck> Is name := [...][2]int{{0,0},{1,1}} correct syntax?  I'm only
finding hints as to how to make 2d arrays
20:20 < KirkMcDonald> cbeck: [...][2]int{[2]int{0, 0}, [2]int{1, 1}}
20:21 < KirkMcDonald> It may be that the array literal syntax could have
sugar added for this specific case.  But as it is, each thing needs to be a
complete literal.
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20:26 < DerGraf> hi all
20:27 < cbeck> KirkMcDonald: I'll try that, thank you
20:27 < DerGraf> Ive a problem installing gc-tools (I tried it a few days
ago on another system it had the same error): dial udp 192.168.4.1:53: network is
unreachable
20:27 < DerGraf> where 192.168.4.1 is my router...  can't i install gc-utils
in this network?
20:28 < DerGraf> its http.TestClient and http.TestRedirect which isnt
working
20:29 < cbeck> KirkMcDonald: That did it, thanks
20:29 < cbeck> If there was ever a need for sugar...
20:30 < DerGraf> ok..  i think i got the hint on the CommonProblems page xD
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20:31 < DerGraf> yes..  it works :) thanks for the attention xD
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22:52 < uriel> iant: you guys should tighten things up on the spam in the
lists...  it is getting annoying
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23:21 < zimbatm> is there a way to list the keys in a map ?
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23:23 < dagle> zimbatm: range
23:23 < zimbatm> thx
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--- Log closed Mon Feb 15 00:00:06 2010