--- Log opened Sun Mar 21 00:00:24 2010
--- Day changed Sun Mar 21 2010
00:00 < megaboz> i see, thanks for the clarification
00:00 < megaboz> sleep would work
00:00 < KirkMcDonald> Aren't there concerns when doing signal handling in a
multithreaded program?
00:02 < anticw> yeah
00:02 < anticw> but rough edges aside you can make it work
00:14 < megaboz> there seems to be an issue with cgo and GOARCH=amd64 in
regard to signal handling
00:15 < megaboz> if i use 386, curses handles the signals just fine,
otherwise i'm getting segmentation faults
00:16 < anticw> amd64 works for me here
00:16 < anticw> can you share some more details
00:17 < megaboz> i'm trying to use http://github.com/jabb/gocurse/
00:17 < uriel> KirkMcDonald: really, signals and threading (which Go uses to
implement goroutines) don't mix well, it can be done, but it is always asking for
pain and missery
00:18 < megaboz> if i compile with GOARCH=amd64 and resize the screen, i get
a segfault, instead of curses handling the SIGWINCH
00:19 < anticw> do you get any details on the segfault?
00:19 < megaboz> nothing, no stack trace at all
00:19 < uriel> "Threads [and] signals [are] a platform-dependant trail of
misery, despair, horror and madness.
00:19 < uriel> — Anthony Baxter
00:19 < uriel> (I knew I had this quote somewhere:
http://quotes.cat-v.org/programming/ )
00:20 < KirkMcDonald> Yes, this sounds accurate.
00:21 < anticw> for linux, threads + signals mostly work
00:21 < anticw> as much as threads suck, they are _necessary_ sometimes
00:21 < anticw> consider SIGWINCH
00:21 < megaboz> not using signals is not an option, since curses abuses
them extensively
00:21 < uriel> anticw: ugh!
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00:22 < uriel> that signals are used for something like SIGWINCH is...
well, stomach turning
00:22 < anticw> there are actually ways to avoid signals for some of this,
linux specific anyhow
00:22 < anticw> probably freebsd has something as well
00:23 < uriel> it is all about desining sane interfaces
00:23 < uriel> notifications can be sent via pipes, files, whatever
00:23 < uriel> I think there is another quote by Dennis Ritchie that says
basically: "Signals are only to signal you want to kill a process"
00:24 < uriel> or something to that effect
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00:25 < megaboz> anyway, i was just pointing out that there might be
something broken when you mix cgo on 64bit systems and libraries using signals
00:25 < anticw>
http://www.kernel.org/doc/man-pages/online/pages/man2/signalfd.2.html
00:25 < megaboz> i'll just use another backend and forget this curses
bullshit
00:25 < anticw> megaboz: it might be a problem, ive not tried w/ cgo
00:26 < anticw> i *might* tweak os/signal to use signalfs if available,
something else to put on the bottom of the list
00:27 < uriel> anticw: nice, I didn't know about that, it doesn't get rid of
signals, but certainly is a step in the right direction
00:29 < uriel> anticw: any clue if other systems implement signalfd?
00:29 < anticw> my guess is freebsd probably does or will
00:29 < anticw> they're really good about that sort of stuff
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01:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aQT42 by [Ken Thompson] in 4 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- issue 682
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05:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aR5Qu by [Russ Cox] in go/src/libmach/ --
libmach: more info when memory reads fail on Darwin
05:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aR5Qw by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: add Kyle
Consalus (individual CLA)
05:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aR5QC by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/goinstall/
-- goinstall: let git/hg/svn create the final directory element
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05:53 < megaboz> any way to get around named enums in cgo?
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06:12 < anticw> megaboz: get around?
06:12 < anticw> oh, you mean they're not working?
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06:39 < anticw> akrill: fwiw, the first public protobuf implementation
supporting Go got committed
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07:41 < megaboz> doh!  i'm using cgo on a library that has a bool typedef.
07:41 < megaboz> C.bool() gets overriden right?
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07:54 < anticw> it might not
07:54 < anticw> you'd have to check
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13:35 < nocturnal> is there a package with a function to convert between
[]byte and string?
13:35 < Kashia_> just cast
13:35 < Kashia_> []byte("somestring")
13:36 < nocturnal> oh that's how you do it, thanks
13:36 < Kashia_> you're welcome
13:38 < kmeyer> the opposite works too, yes?
13:38 < kmeyer> string([]byte{1,2,3})
13:39 < kmeyer> (and IIRC anything that isn't a valid utf8 glyph becomes the
unicode glyph 'invalid')
13:40 < KnightMage> is there a way to do dynamically linked libraries using
the 6g compiler?  I mean, all done in Go, so a Go library that is a .so file that
another go program can link to?
13:41 < kmeyer> not with the gc compilers yet, I don't think
13:41 < KnightMage> Will that be added at some point?
13:42 < kmeyer> Presumably
13:44 < KnightMage> cool.  can't wait for that feature.  :)
13:44 < kmeyer> me either ;)
13:45 < KnightMage> glad I'm not the only one.  :P
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13:53 < KnightMage> Currently, the Go tool chain is written in C. Will it be
converted to a pure Go code in the future?
13:55 < dagle> KnightMage: It might happen.
13:56 < KnightMage> That would be cool if it did, then there would be no
outside dependencies.  :)
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14:07 < dagle> KnightMage: Go doesn't depend on it's own C toolchain atm.
:)
14:07 < dagle> KnightMage: Go depend on it's own C toolchain atm.  :)
14:07 < dagle> *
14:08 < KnightMage> ah
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15:47 < Surma> hey guys.  is there a particular reason why channels can't be
receivers?
15:48 < Kashia_> could you explain in more detail?
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16:00 < guutlee> \q
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16:12 < Surma> Kashia_: Well, the compiler complains about me defining a
function func (c *char byte) ...  or func (c char byte)...  it says "invalid
receiver type"
16:13 < Kashia_> char?  or chan
16:13 < Surma> chan
16:13 < Surma> sorry
16:17 < Kashia_> could you paste the code?
16:17 < Kashia_> as a simple `func f(c chan byte) {}` in itself does not
produce that error
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16:19 < Kashia_> http://pastie.org/879752 as a reference on what I
understood that you did
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16:24 < Surma> Kashia_: I mean chan int as a receiver type:
http://pastie.org/879760
16:25 < Kashia_> you mean a pointer to a channel?
16:25 < Surma> for example - yeah.  I thought receiver-declaration have to
be pointers
16:26 < Kashia_> then you have to go all the way http://pastie.org/879762
16:26 < Surma> Kashia_: Would you mind looking at my paste?  I wanted to
somehow define c.do() not do(c)
16:27 < Kashia_> ah sorry, it confused me :)
16:29 < Kashia_> http://pastie.org/879766
16:29 < Kashia_> as you can't add methods to core types, only your own
16:29 < Surma> oh really?  I didn't know that.  thanks :)
16:30 < Kashia_> you're welcome
16:30 < Surma> Is there a particular reason for that?  I mean, what's the
point in forcing you to typedef a channel with your own in order to make it
implement io.Reader or whatever
16:31 < Kashia_> type safety is a reason
16:31 < Kashia_> if you know Ruby (especially Ruby on Rails) you will know
why
16:32 < Kashia_> extending the core with functionality will confuse users
16:32 < Surma> hm...  makes sense.  one line typedef is probably a fair
tradeoff for clean design
16:32 < Surma> thanks :)
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17:22 < reiddraper> anyone played around with net.TCPConn or net.netFD?
17:26 < anticw> tangentially
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17:28 < reiddraper> i'm trying to use epoll via fd_linux.go, and i need to
actual int fd called sysfd in the net.netFD struct
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17:28 < reiddraper> but, unless i'm missing something (entirely possible),
it's not exposed in any way in the TCPConn or netFD struct
17:29 < anticw> nope, i have a similar issue in general with net/*
17:31 < reiddraper> alright, thanks
17:32 < anticw> i dont entirely like the way net works right now, a lot of
the complexity seems to be for timeouts
17:32 < anticw> which most modern IP stacks can do on a per-socket basis
anyhow
17:32 < reiddraper> right
17:33 < reiddraper> perhaps this is just a good excuse now for me to get my
hands dirtier with go / lower-level socket stuff
17:33 < reiddraper> there's relatively little source in fd.go anywa
17:35 < anticw> low-level socket stuff ends up ugly, there does need to be a
layer over that
17:36 < reiddraper> can you think of any particular reason it would be bad
to have a getter for netFD.sysfd?
17:36 < anticw> but im not sure i like what there is now
17:36 < reiddraper> for me now, that's all i really think i need
17:36 < anticw> there are no idomatic uses for touching the low-level fd
17:37 < reiddraper> well, registering events with epoll
17:38 < reiddraper> that is, unless you changed fd_linux to take in a netFD
struct instead of just a fd
17:38 < anticw> i dont disagree with you at all, i have had similar needs
17:39 < reiddraper> you working on anything particular?
17:40 < anticw> random things, the first time this bit me was doing a STOMP
broker
17:41 < anticw> last night i added raw ip socket & icmp/ping support
17:41 < anticw> i
17:41 < anticw> ill submit that later after some cleanups
17:42 < anticw> (ipv6 isn't work as-is, need to fix)
17:44 < reiddraper> great
17:47 < anticw> anyhow, the frustration there was i couldn't do a ping
module w/o adding raw support to net, w/ basic socket access i could have
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17:49 < anticw> anyhow, kids birthday, bbl
17:49 < reiddraper> thanks for the help
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17:56 < Surma> Hey.  I just saw this in the source code of the fmt package:
p, ok := <-ppFree, where ppFree is a chan *pp.  Is this a way to use channel
"non-blocking"?
17:57 < Surma> And if yes, isn't this worth putting into the Lang Spec?
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17:58 < reiddraper> how was ppFree defined?  as a buffered or synchronous
channel?
17:59 < Surma> I guess buffered: ppFree := make(chan *pp, 100)
17:59 < Surma> I didn't even know there were two types of channels
17:59 < Surma> is this in the docs somewhere?
18:00 < Surma> oh just found it
18:00 < Surma> thanks
18:00 < reiddraper> http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#channels
18:00 < reiddraper> no prob
18:01 < Surma> May I suggest to somewhat update the lang spec?  it's really
confusing that some stuff is only in "effective go" and not in the specs (i'd
assume to find *everything* in there)
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18:07 < reiddraper> what extra information is in effective go that isn't
here?  http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Channel_types
18:07 < reiddraper> though i agree that effective go does a much better job
explaining the difference between a buffered and a synchronous channel
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18:18 < Surma> reiddraper: well, you are right.  It seems like everything is
there, the buffered channels are also there, but a little easy to oversee (in my
opinion).  What seems to be missing in both, is how you check whether a buffered
channel is empty.  It might be logical to assume that comma-ok is the way to go.
But I would much rather see it explicitly documented
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18:20 < reiddraper> can you ask for the length of a channel?
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18:21 < Surma> i guess, I don't really know cap()?
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18:22 < KirkMcDonald> reiddraper: No. In fact, it may not even have one.
18:23 < reiddraper> just out of curiosity, what is the use case for wanting
to know the whether a buffered channel is empty or not?
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seconds]
18:25 < Surma> reiddraper: buffered channels are non-blocking, so it's
rather crucial to know whether you just got useful data or still got the one from
the last iteration (or whatever)
18:26 < reiddraper> Surma: sorry, I'm not quite following, can you
distinguish between "useful data" and "one from the last iteration"?
18:27 < Surma> if you call " for { i <- someChannel; doSomethingWithi()
}", and someChannel is buffered, the read from the channel will be non-blocking
18:28 < Surma> so if the channel is empty, i won't be changed (i assume)
18:28 < reiddraper> right, it will block until someone puts something into
someChannel
18:28 < Surma> so you really do need a way to check wether i just received a
new (not necessarily distinguishable) value
18:29 < Surma> reiddraper: as far as I understood the documentation, they
don't block - that's what's the difference between buffered and unbuffered
channe;s
18:30 < reiddraper> perhaps my understanding of "blocking" is different
18:30 < skelterjohn> buffered channels will block if there is nothing in the
buffer
18:30 < reiddraper> i understand blocking to mean, if the channel is
unbuffered, you can put one thing into the channel, and you will wait until that
one thing is received on the other end
18:31 < skelterjohn> oh sorry
18:31 < skelterjohn> they will block on read if there is nothing in the
channel
18:31 < reiddraper> correct
18:31 < skelterjohn> they will block on write if the buffer is full
18:31 < reiddraper> yep
18:32 < reiddraper> when you say that an unbuffered (or synchronous) channel
is "blocking", it just means that you must wait till the other end receives what
you just put in
18:32 < Surma> skelterjohn: oh really?  than what *IS* the point of the
comma-ok in the fmt package?  see http://golang.org/src/pkg/fmt/print.go#L155
18:32 < reiddraper> buffered or not, you always have to wait for a value to
come out
18:33 < reiddraper> ppFree returns two values
18:33 < skelterjohn> val, ok <- chan will never block
18:34 < skelterjohn> if it would have blocked with just "val <- chan"
18:34 < skelterjohn> it will not block, val will be zero, and ok will be
false
18:34 < Surma> ah okay, so my first assumption was correct.  thanks for the
clarification
18:34 < Surma> and I think *THATS* something that belongs somewhere in the
specs, doesn't it?
18:34 < skelterjohn> it's in there
18:35 < Surma> it is?!  i couldn't find it under channels.  neither in
effective go nor in the lang specs
18:35 < skelterjohn>
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Communication_operators
18:36 < skelterjohn> "If a receive expression is used in an assignment or
initialization of the form <snip> the receive operation becomes
non-blocking."
18:36 < skelterjohn> where <snip> shows an example of val, ok <- ch
18:36 < Surma> oh okay, well shame on me then :-/
18:37 < skelterjohn> might be easier to search if everything having to do
with chans were in a single place, instead of having one sections be their
declarations, and another being their uses
18:37 < reiddraper> yeah, i had missed that too
18:38 < reiddraper> Surma: I now see your frustration
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18:38 < Surma> haha, thanks ^^ but I guess it's a rather difficult and
tedious task to get a nicely organized documentation for a language
18:39 < Surma> And now for something completely different: Is there a way to
check whether a net.Conn is still open?  I have the problem that when I start to
write to a net.Conn (which the client has already closed) my program just exits.
No error, no nothing.  Am I missing something?
18:39 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.146] has quit [Quit: carllerche]
18:41 < Surma> (a net.TCPConn to be specific)
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18:43 < reiddraper> i haven't seen anything, i've run into a few stopgaps
with the net package
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18:45 < Surma> damn
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18:46 < reiddraper> seems to be no way of getting at int file descriptors
either
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19:48 < ni|> is there a conversion library?
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19:53 < exch> if by conversion you mean convert fron int to string and such,
try the strconv package
19:53 < ni|> i'm looking for binary to ascii like stuff
19:53 < ni|> just a project to play with
19:54 < digi9> Hello, I have a question regarding arrays.  If I have, say, a
function "f" and an array of functions "funcs", is there a simple/built-in way to
get an array of functions that is basically "funcs" with "f" as the first element?
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19:58 < ni|> digi9: arrays or slices
19:58 < ni|> often people mean slices for go
19:58 < digi9> well
19:59 < digi9> sure
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19:59 < Surma> ni|: Use a simple string-cast on a byte-slice
20:00 < ni|> Surma: i finished it already
20:00 < Surma> oh k
20:00 < ni|> thx, i did something like that
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20:01 < smw> digi9: you could easily make a function to do that.  Most
languages call it unshift.
20:02 < digi9> ok, I think it should be pretty straightforward
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20:02 < smw> digi9: just move every element over one starting at the end.
(no there is not a more efficent way)
20:02 < smw> yeah
20:03 < smw> and if anyone knows if go has unshift, let me know :-)
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20:17 < exch> is there a reason why the strings package still has no
Replace() function?  Or is it hidden elsewhere?
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20:31 < ni|> Surma: ping
20:31 < Surma> ni|: pong
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20:34 < Surma> Guys, what's the more idiomatic way?  I create a bufio.Reader
with bufio.NewReader and get a pointer.  Should I pass the pointer around to my
functions or "dereference" the pointer and pass "the value"?
20:34 < ni|> Surma: sorry i gg do this stupid thing
20:34 < ni|> i'll be back later
20:34 < ni|> meetings
20:35 < exch> I pass pointers around as much as I can
20:36 < exch> not sure if it's 'idiomatic', it's just a habit I suppose
20:38 < Surma> I was just wondering :)
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20:44 < alexbobp> oh, hey tcoppi
20:45 < tcoppi> hi
20:45 < alexbobp> so does this language use type inferrence?
20:45 < alexbobp> it looked like it from the code examples
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20:47 < tcoppi> when declaring variables you get inference, but it won't
automatically convert between types
20:49 < alexbobp> good, because a language *shouldn't* do that :P
20:49 * alexbobp mumbles some obscenities about dynamic typing
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21:01 < Surma> Who does one debug a go program nowadays?  My program keeps
panicking and throws an unreadable string - I have no idea anymore where it might
come from
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21:02 < Surma> Who=How*
21:03 < exch> Not sure what the status is of the Go debugger (Ogle), but
last I checked, it wasn't really very useful yet
21:03 < exch> I just go by the panic message it throws.  There's usually
something in there that helps
21:03 < exch> If not, I just start commenting out the things I added most
recently
21:04 < Surma> as I said, mines unreadable, seems like random characters (a
memery region?)
21:04 < Surma> and it's not really reproducable
21:04 < Surma> i just start it over and over, and from time to time it
crashed.  race conditions are hard to comment out :-/
21:05 < exch> hmm that's a problem
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21:10 < Surma> How do I get ogle?  It's not in my go source tree and I have
no clue when it comes to hg
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21:11 < Surma> sorry
21:11 < Surma> I take that back
21:11 < Surma> grep is not what it used to be :-/
21:11 < ThunderChicken> wouldn't "find" be more useful?
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21:19 < Surma> ThunderChicken: Yeah, but grep's parameters are so much
easier to write...  look how that worked out :-/
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21:21 < dagle> Surma: find $GOROOT -name ogle
21:21 < dagle> Not that hard.  :P
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21:23 < ThunderChicken> Surma, I have to look up grep's treewalking
capabilities every time I want to use 'em.  I don't find 'find' all that
difficult.
21:23 < Surma> well, I just remember "rhino" vor grep ;) ``grep -RHino
<term> .''
21:24 < Surma> Okay, Task #2: "Understanding how ogle works"
21:24 < ThunderChicken> Heh.
21:25 < ThunderChicken> I should spin up the laptop and see if ogle can help
me debug the OS X network problem.
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21:25 < Surma> is there any (useful) documentation for ogle?
21:25 < Surma> I can't seem to figure out anything execpt executing standard
go-commands.  No --help, -h or anything
21:28 < dagle> Surma: Read cmd.go
21:28 < Surma> k thx
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21:44 < anticw> exch: you could make Replace from Split + Join
21:45 < exch> I already have my own.  Was just wondering why it's not in the
package.  Seems like a fairly trivial, but often used function
21:46 < anticw> well, I proposed SplitLast and some others, but it was
deemed not useful for now
21:47 < anticw> keeping things minimal isn't that bad for now
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21:48 < Surma> anticw: I sure is not.  I have never had the courage to look
into main-APIs code.  But with go it's really not that bad mainly because of the
minimality
21:49 < anticw> was it somewhere here who wanted a ping implemantion?
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21:49 < anticw> Surma: i don't understand what you're saying sorry
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21:50 < Surma> anticw: well, I'm just saying, because the stdlib is that
small (still very usable tho) I don't feel afraid of looking at the code
21:51 < Surma> (which I still haven't done in C, C++ or anything for that
matter)
21:51 < Surma> and I consider that a good thing.  I believe I never had a
understanding that deep for a language
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21:53 < KirkMcDonald> The source of any given implementation of the C++ STL
is...  not a happy read.
21:53 < anticw> oh, the code (esp.  outside of the runtime) is pretty nice,
frequently i smile at some of the things the main authors spit out and smile in
admiration
21:54 < anticw> STL started out much better than what you get to read now
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21:54 < KirkMcDonald> I can believe this.
21:54 < KirkMcDonald> But the point remains.  :-)
21:54 < anticw> i agree what most people have to debug/eyeball at this stage
though isn't pretty
21:54 < anticw> that's also true for glibc internals
21:54 < anticw> klibc is a nice clean read, glibc much less so ...  but
apples & oranges you can argue
21:57 < Surma> I was thinking about taking a look at dietlibc or something,
maybe *that* can cheer me up ;)
21:57 < anticw> look at klibc, hpa has done a wonderful job of that IMO
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22:26 < l00t> hi peoples
22:26 < Kashia> anticw, I would be very happy if you could up that icmp
implementation somewhere public
22:26 < reiddraper> hi l00t
22:27 < anticw> Kashia: ones the tests are all clean for ipv4/ipv6 and some
other weirdness is sorted ill push it out
22:27 < Kashia> aight, fair enough :)
22:28 < Kashia> just so you know, there is 'demand' :P
22:28 < l00t> first, my english is not very good, so sorry some errors
22:28 < anticw> ipv4 works fine, ipv6 seems to work but the headers i get
back from the kernel aren't what i expected
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22:28 < l00t> i'm a brazilian students and i'm doing a research about go
22:29 < anticw> welcome
22:29 < Kashia> anticw, I had a look at implementing that too, but after
looking at the involved systems calls and considering the evil go network
implementation, I left that for another time :P
22:30 < anticw> Kashia: oh, it's not that bad ...  i just had to add raw
socket support, with that you can craft the ICMP packets as needed
22:30 < anticw> i've done this more than once before, it was just a little
annoying to have to get into the middle of net/* rather than sit on top of it
22:31 < l00t> if someone can help me with somethings i have doubt, i thank
22:31 < reiddraper> l00t: please ask,
22:31 < Kashia> well, I'm glad someone did the work for me :P
22:32 < Kashia> l00t, just ask, don't ask if you can ask :P
22:32 < l00t> :D
22:32 < l00t> ok
22:34 < l00t> how is done the binding of the an address the a variable?
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22:36 < Kashia> could you rephrase that?
22:36 < l00t> irsrsrsrs
22:37 < l00t> ohh...  my english is terrible
22:38 < Kashia> just try again?  :)
22:38 < reiddraper> l00t: maybe you are asking about pointers?
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22:38 < l00t> reiddraper, not
22:39 < l00t> again
22:39 < l00t> how is the binding of a memory address to a variable?
22:39 < KirkMcDonald> l00t: Can you be more specific?
22:39 < KirkMcDonald> l00t: Give an example?
22:40 < Kashia> is that question about the implementation of go?  or is it
about the usage of go?
22:40 < l00t> about implementation
22:41 < KirkMcDonald> l00t: Are you asking how Go decides where local
variables live?
22:41 < l00t> KirkMcDonald, yes
22:41 -!- nettok__ [~netto@200.119.154.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22:41 < KirkMcDonald> l00t: On the call stack, same as in C.
22:41 < anticw> local variables are stack allocated until you take the
address of them
22:41 < anticw> in which case they are heap allocated
22:41 < KirkMcDonald> Unless they're part of a closure.
22:41 < KirkMcDonald> Yes, that, too.
22:42 < anticw> a closure is a specific case of taking the address of a
variable (though that's arguably an implementation detail)
22:43 < KirkMcDonald> The point being that it doesn't *look* like taking the
address of the variable.  :-)
22:43 < l00t> e for scope, how works?
22:43 < l00t> same C too?
22:44 < KirkMcDonald> I believe that any statement with a block defines a
new scope.
22:44 < KirkMcDonald>
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Declarations_and_scope
22:45 < l00t> great
22:45 < reiddraper> anticw: would you recommend creating sockets from
net/sock.go or net/ipsock.go?
22:47 < l00t> i'll continue to reading the docs
22:47 < l00t> thanks
22:48 < anticw> reiddraper: to do what?
22:48 < reiddraper> anticw: creating a simple http server using epoll
22:48 < anticw> you *have* to use epoll?
22:49 < reiddraper> well, i want to make it an asynchronous server, so that
seems like the best option to me.  i'm open to suggestions though
22:50 < reiddraper> so, simple but asynch
22:50 < taruti> why not use the builtin tcp sockets?
22:50 < taruti> (is there nonblocking io on them?)
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22:51 < reiddraper> not that i'm aware of, and either way, i've had to hack
net.netFD to expose its int fd
22:51 < reiddraper> because all of the socket stuff seems to contain a netFD
struct
22:55 < anticw> internally go uses epoll
22:55 < anticw> idiomatic you just spawn goroutines for all this, 1000s of
them if need be
22:55 < anticw> if you really want the fd internally, you'll have to tweak
the net/* code to expose it
22:57 < reiddraper> anticw: what do you mean, internally go uses epoll?
22:57 < anticw> if you use blocking io + channels, internally go will use
epoll
22:57 < anticw> so 1000s of goroutines and 1000s of channels scales pretty
well
22:58 < reiddraper> anticw: ah, interesting, so that has been my plan, just
didnt realize that go was using epoll for io anyway...
23:01 < reiddraper> anticw: do you know an example in the source i can look
at, I haven't seen any Write or Read calls that return on a channel, or do you
just wrap that call with a closure that responds on a channel you pass it?
23:02 < anticw> reiddraper: what is the purpose here?  a simple web server?
23:03 < anticw> there is one in the distribution you can look at
23:03 < anticw> wrapping socket io and poking intpo goroutines doesn't seem
useful, you might as well actually do some work there
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23:04 < reiddraper> anticw: the purpose is to write an asynchronous web
server, something like tornado or twisted in python.  here is a basic python
implementation of what i want http://scotdoyle.com/python-epoll-howto.html
23:05 < anticw> you can do an event based framework though
23:05 < taruti> reiddraper: why?
23:05 < taruti> why not use go-routines + channels?
23:05 < anticw> take you socket IO and wrap/unwrap the protocol data you
care about, then hand off partially processed data to 'event' channels
23:06 < anticw> but really im not sure it makes that much sense
23:06 < reiddraper> anticw: yes, i want to make an event based framework,
and i like go for it because i can use the channels for signalling events
23:07 < anticw> or just dont bother
23:07 < anticw> write everything to use blocking goroutines ...  and see how
well the runtime does the muxing/demuxing for you
23:07 < reiddraper> and i hope that as the go scheduler gets smarter (if its
not already), won't switch contexts to a go routine that is blocking on a channel,
unless the scheduler knows that go routine can read from the channel
23:07 < anticw> reiddraper: if can't switch to something that's blocked, try
it ...  you'll get a panic
23:08 < anticw> s/if/it/
23:08 < taruti> reiddraper: why do you want to block on channel receives
instead of network reads?
23:08 < reiddraper> taruti: i don't want to block ever :)
23:08 < anticw> reiddraper: block, it's fine, really
23:09 < anticw> reiddraper: you can have 100,000 goroutines and channels
blocking and not break a sweat
23:09 < taruti> reiddraper: actually you want to block, e.g.  when there are
no clients
23:10 < reiddraper> taruti: ok, point taken
23:10 < anticw> reiddraper: consider this, i have some code i did, in fact
the first thing i did in go that does dns lookups
23:10 < anticw> 1000s of them ...  you can just spawn lots of goroutines and
block, and stick the results back into a channel
23:11 < anticw> and it works very well
23:11 < reiddraper> and, under the hood, go is using epoll for the io?
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23:12 < anticw> yes
23:13 < anticw> well ...  it's more subtle
23:13 < anticw> and of course could change and depends on platform, etc ...
you shouldn't really have to worry about too many internal details for most things
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23:17 < reiddraper> hmm, perhaps i need to start digging into the go C src,
and not just the pkg source for go
23:18 < reiddraper> nothing i've seen in net or http seems to imply that
it's doing any kind of asynch stuff
23:18 < reiddraper> certainly possible i've missed something though
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23:21 < anticw> reiddraper: go c.serve()
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23:31 < reiddraper> anticw: right, i saw that.  i guess i just need to go
read through some more of the source.  I've been able to successfully make a
simple server in go, I just want to have a firm understanding of the asynchronous
bits
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--- Log closed Mon Mar 22 00:00:02 2010