--- Log opened Tue Apr 27 00:00:30 2010
--- Day changed Tue Apr 27 2010
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00:29 < nsheretic> can anyone explain the difference between new() and
make() ? If I understand correctly new() merely returns a pointer to allocated but
not instantiated memory?
00:33 < Ginto8> nsheretic: new is used for normal types (builtin like
int,float or user-defined), while make is really just for maps and channels
00:33 < Ginto8> maps/channels uninitialized with make will be nil by default
00:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJ7LI by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ --
doc/root.html: remove key from jsapi src
00:33 < nsheretic> thanks
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00:49 < kmeyer> I wish maps were initialized to the empty map by default :S
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00:57 < smw> kmeyer: so do I
00:58 < Ginto8> that would be useful
00:58 < kmeyer> it's one of those things that still feels "stutter"-ey to me
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02:10 < defectiv> does this make sense?
02:10 < defectiv> oops.  nm.
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02:17 < allengeorge> does the statement "var my_array int[10]" create a new
array?  Seems like "yes"
02:18 < kmeyer> yep
02:19 < allengeorge> Great.  So if I had a struct, like "type T struct {int
a, b}"
02:20 < allengeorge> And "var myStruct T"
02:20 < kmeyer> you mean, "...  {a, b int}"
02:20 < kmeyer> but go on :)
02:20 < allengeorge> Right :)
02:20 < allengeorge> Sorry - I code in C++ all day
02:21 < kmeyer> No worries, I trip on that frequently as well
02:21 < allengeorge> Does "var myStruct T" also create an empty struct?
02:21 < kmeyer> A struct with all values set to their "zero value"
02:22 < kmeyer> This stuff is all explained in the "go tutorial" and
"effective go" documents in a lot of depth with great examples -- I'd really
suggest reading that
02:22 < allengeorge> Ok. So basically any var statement without an
initializer (except maps and channels) will result in a type that's initialized to
0
02:22 < kmeyer> but in this case, you get a struct value, with the members
'a' and 'b' as 0
02:22 < allengeorge> I mean to their "zero value"
02:22 < kmeyer> Right.
02:22 < kmeyer> right, right
02:23 < allengeorge> Ok. The reason I ask is that I rarely see a var
statement without an initializer
02:23 < allengeorge> So I wondered if I was missing something
02:23 < kmeyer> by initializer you mean some sort of constant value?
02:23 < kmeyer> or a function or something?
02:23 < kmeyer> er, s/constant/literal/
02:24 < allengeorge> Yes.  A rvalue (i.e.  something to the right of =)
02:24 < kmeyer> mhm
02:24 < kmeyer> (I'm familiar with C terminology, mostly)
02:25 < allengeorge> [nods]
02:25 < allengeorge> I was reading through the tutorial, but it seemed like
every variable usually had a make/new/literal initializer
02:26 < allengeorge> I think that's because usually the short form is used,
i.e.  "<var_name> := ...."
02:26 < allengeorge> Which requires an initializer
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02:30 < kmeyer> ah, yep
02:30 < sladegen> no, it doesn't require type declaration...  it is
initialization...
02:31 < allengeorge> I'm confused - what doesn't require type declaration?
02:31 < sladegen> perhaps you mean you don't seem much unitialized
declarations using var...
02:32 < sladegen> "<var_name> := ...."
02:32 < allengeorge> sladegen: that's correct (re: I don't see much
uninitialized decla....)
02:32 < sladegen> you don't have to type var or its type when you use :=
02:32 < allengeorge> Yes, that I realize
02:32 < sladegen> var keyword...
02:33 < allengeorge> For example, in Java having int myarray[] and using it
directly is a bad idea
02:34 < kmeyer> Why?
02:34 < allengeorge> You _have_ to use new
02:34 < kmeyer> Oh, right
02:34 < allengeorge> int myarray[] = new int[10]
02:34 < kmeyer> right, I forget java doesn't have non-pointer objects
02:34 < allengeorge> So I just wanted to get things string wrt.  Go
02:35 < allengeorge> kmeyer: yeah
02:35 < allengeorge> string/straight
02:36 < allengeorge> Great, thanks kmeyer, sladegen; appreciate the help!
02:36 < sladegen> well if you have some value for the variable you don't
need explicit declaration of type and when you don't have value you need to
declare type...  /me falls down breathless.
02:37 < allengeorge> sladegen: [nods]
02:37 < sladegen> ...  ande when you have type you can set "default"
value...
02:37 < allengeorge> which is what's most-often done
02:38 < sladegen> etc...  etc...
02:38 < allengeorge> as opposed to letting it being set to the "zero value"
02:38 < kmeyer> allengeorge: glad to help out
02:39 < kmeyer> someone asking intelligent questions is very much
appreciated!
02:39 < sladegen> well, by "default" value i meant "zero value".
02:39 < sladegen> it's way better than undefined or random value.
02:40 < allengeorge> Wait, what?
02:40 < allengeorge> Why would it be random?
02:41 < sladegen> because you are reusing memory which stored something
there before...
02:43 < allengeorge> [puzzled] My understanding was that in Go variables are
initialized to their "zero value"
02:44 < sladegen> and is "" the same as 0...  for the most basic type of
"zero values".
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02:44 < allengeorge> I'm not sure what you mean.  An empty string is the
zero value for a string
02:45 < allengeorge> nil would be the zero value for a pointer
02:45 < sladegen> anyway...  i'm not exavtly expertly in those matters.
better read offcial docs lest i give you wrong impressions.
02:45 < allengeorge> and 0 would be the zero value for int, float, etc.
02:46 < allengeorge> Will do.
02:46 < sladegen> yes, go has an idea of "zero values", saying random i was
reffering to C world.
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02:47 < kmeyer> allengeorge: I think sladegen is trying to say Go is better
than C in this regard
02:47 < kmeyer> Ah, I guess I fail at catching up on backlog before replying
:P
02:48 < allengeorge> Oh - I agree with him then.  Yes, Go _is_ friendlier
than C in this regard :)
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03:53 < cbeck> A question about stack traces: Is the goroutine trace at the
top the one in which the error occurred?
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04:43 < jesusaurus> do i need to do something special for complex numbers?
04:44 < jesusaurus> i keep getting the error: expected ';', found 'IDENT' i
04:49 < cbeck> jesusaurus:
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Complex_numbers
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05:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJmeT by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- net: introduce net.Error interface
05:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJmeZ by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/crypto/tls/
-- crypto/tls: simpler implementation of record layer
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05:34 < jesusaurus> now im getting undefined reference to complex
05:35 < jesusaurus> is there package i need to import for complex numbers to
work?
05:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJmYo by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ --
godoc: add codewalk support
05:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJmYt by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
more specific error for statements at top level
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05:50 < jessta> jesusaurus: nope, they are built-in
05:51 < jessta> pastebin your code
05:51 < jessta> also, what version of the compiler are you using?
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05:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJnI1 by [Charles L. Dorian] in
go/src/pkg/math/ -- math: more special cases for signed zero
05:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJnI5 by [Kyle Consalus] in go/test/bench/ --
Added fannkuch-parallel.go
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05:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJnIh by [Alex Brainman] in go/ -- rename
cgo2c to goc2c in ignored list
05:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJnIt by [Evan Shaw] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os:
Fix build for MinGW
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06:11 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJouf by [Giles Lean] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os:
create sys_bsd.go
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06:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJpeC by [Alex Brainman] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- os, syscall: more mingw
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06:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJqH7 by [Alex Brainman] in
go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: fix mingw build
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07:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJrI1 by [Micah Stetson] in go/src/pkg/time/
-- time: remove incorrect time.ISO8601 and add time.RFC3339
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09:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bJzbj by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ --
homepage: removed animation, use custom js instead of gdynamicfeeds
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10:42 < Ideal> hi, i'd quite interested to know impressions after using Go
compared to previous python experience.  is it okay to ask here such things ?
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10:44 < sladegen> no, puthon users are explicitly forbidden from entering
this holy grounds...
10:46 < Ideal> okay..  seems like no such things in google yet, so maybe
here anyone ?
10:46 < sladegen> you may try mailing list, though, for more conversational,
less random chance of an answer...
10:47 < Ideal> okay, thanks..  i'm not hurrying, so if not here i maybe try
ml then..
10:48 < sladegen> and if there are ML archives searching them for "python"
may yield something better than general google search.
10:49 < Ideal> oh, nice tips, thanks, something there
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10:59 < taruti> Got flymake working with Go :)
10:59 < jessta> Ideal: I've been a python user
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11:01 < Ideal> taruti: flymake (i'm not a native speaker..)
11:01 < Ideal> ?
11:02 < taruti> Ideal: an emacs thing that shows errors in an interactive
fashion
11:02 < Ideal> ah..
11:02 < Ideal> jessta: i see..  would you share and your impressions ?
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11:05 < kmeyer> taruti: nice
11:05 < jessta> I've never been a fan of the whole OOP style and dynamic
typing has always worried me, so I prefer Go
11:06 < jessta> Go has most of the python features I care about, including
the required style
11:07 < taruti> is package C only available when using cgo?
11:07 * taruti wants memmove/memcpy whatever and there is C.memmove
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11:10 < Ideal> jessta: i see, thank you..
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11:17 < taruti> Just want a basic "poke structure X into the memory pointed
to this location"
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11:19 < jessta> taruti: what are you trying to do?
11:20 < taruti> jessta: writing results back to fuse.
11:20 < taruti> jessta: thus I have two structures that I want to get into
one buffer and write that out with a single write-call
11:20 < jessta> copy()?
11:23 < taruti> jessta: so how do I get from *Foo to a []byte pointing to
the struct?
11:25 < jessta> taruti: maybe http://golang.org/pkg/encoding/binary/
11:26 < taruti> jessta: which doesn't support "I don't care about endianess"
11:27 < taruti> since these things are always native-endian
11:27 < taruti> yes, it could detect which endian the running platform is,
and then use reflection in encoding/binary to copy on a per-field basis, but that
would be quite dumb.
11:29 < jessta> why per field?
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11:31 < taruti> jessta: that is how encoding/binary operates.
11:31 < taruti> jessta: just a plain memcpy would do the trick for me
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11:43 < jessta> taruti: then use unsafe
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12:24 < b0gg1e> Is there a pastebin with go syntax highlighting?
12:27 < b0gg1e> Maybe somebody should write some package for putting
SeekableWriteReader on unsafe.Pointer's + maybe even io.Closer as alias to Free
12:27 < b0gg1e> unsafe.LimitedBuffer of sorts
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12:39 < jessta> b0gg1e: pastie.org
12:39 < b0gg1e> thx!
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13:00 < jashkenas> 'morning #go-nuts.  We've been considering adding named
result parameters to a little language (CoffeeScript), and I was wondering how
y'all are liking using them...
13:00 < jessta> they are really nice
13:00 < jashkenas> Do you tend to favor them over traditional returns?
Would you still use them in a dynamic language where you don't have to have the
type annotation in the first place?
13:07 < jessta> yeah, they often save a bit of messing around
13:09 < jashkenas> jessta: thanks.  Got any public examples (say, on Github)
I should be looking at?
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13:27 < b0gg1e> when adding a uint64 offset (Seek interface) to an uintptr,
how do I check that there was no overflow?
13:28 * b0gg1e would like named parameter syntax for go..  Or at least update
syntax, i.e.  not only Foo{a: 1, b: 2} but alo foo{b: 1}
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13:31 < jessta> b0gg1e: makes things messy
13:32 < jessta> to check for overflow just check that it won't overflow
13:32 < b0gg1e> For value types that's really useful!  You get an updated
copy, almost functional programming...
13:32 < b0gg1e> Maybe even restrict it to value types, cause there it's nice
13:32 < jessta> nah, I mean the compiler etc.
13:32 < b0gg1e> ah that part :-)
13:33 < b0gg1e> well the problem is the Seeker interface which expects a
uint64 offset
13:33 < b0gg1e> so somehow I have to test wether addind start to some base
uintptr is valid
13:33 < b0gg1e> "adding that"
13:34 < jessta> won't you just get an error back?
13:34 < b0gg1e> no, ist defined to wrap around for all uint types.
13:34 < b0gg1e> mod 2^n
13:35 < b0gg1e> think about using sizeof to put the right "offset adder"
function in a var during package init
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13:59 * uriel hates named params
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14:03 < taruti> b0gg1e: to test for over/underflow:
14:04 < taruti> new = old + offset; if (offset >= 0 && new < old) ||
(offset < 0 && new >= old) { panic("Over/underflow") }
14:05 < taruti> b0gg1e: btw is yout current code somewhere?
14:05 < b0gg1e> not yet going on github after sorting out some pw messup
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14:06 < b0gg1e> think i can cheat away without testing for ptr size
14:07 < b0gg1e> keep min and max uintptr, do offset computation in int64()
space and check if result is still within range
14:07 < taruti> yes
14:07 < taruti> just wondering how you get the Writer
14:13 < b0gg1e> Get?  I'm implementing writer interface..
14:13 < b0gg1e> will put this on git hub as soon as it compiles
14:13 < b0gg1e> nearly there
14:13 < taruti> ok :)
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16:05 < dho_plan9> kimelto: did you ever figure out more about that?
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16:06 < dho_plan9> aha, io
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16:10 < dho_plan9> that doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
16:10 < dho_plan9> I wonder what it's doing that causes that.
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16:50 < taruti> I am growing to hate := with the current shadowing semantics
16:50 < taruti> it seems to create bugs very easily
16:50 < taruti> var foo T; func F() { for { foo, err := myFunc() } } <-
like that
16:51 < sladegen> perhaps it's time for ;=
16:51 < taruti> a simple "shadowing variables with := will emit an warning"
would be plenty enough
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16:52 <+iant> we've discussed an error if a variable is defined but not
used, but I don't think it was ever quite pinned down enough
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16:52 < taruti> iant: that isn't enough
16:52 < taruti> consider
16:53 <+iant> shadowing variables with := is certainly useful in some cases,
though
16:53 < taruti> var foo T; func F() { for { foo, err := myFunc();
SomethingWith(foo) } } func G() { Bar(foo) }
16:53 < sladegen> get rid of global scope and make everything immutable,
ftw...  ;)
16:54 <+iant> shadowing a global variable is exactly the kind of case which
people reasonably want to do
16:55 < taruti> iant: but the global variables will be specific for the
package in question - and thus there is not much need for shadowing
16:56 <+iant> well, you could try to make the argument on the mailing list,
but I wouldn't hold out much hope for it
16:56 < taruti> I'll write something if I get frustrated enough
16:57 < taruti> b0gg1e: did you get the code to compile?
16:58 < b0gg1e> just now pusing
16:59 < b0gg1e> git clone http://github.com/boggle/coffer.git
16:59 < b0gg1e> havent tested, will use this in the zmq bindings i am
writing and test it there
17:00 < taruti> thanks :)
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17:05 < b0gg1e> What really would be kicking is a way to give go ptrs to C
with some refcounting..
17:07 < cbeck> A question about stack traces: Is the goroutine trace at the
top the one in which the error occurred?
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17:08 < b0gg1e> taruti: tell me if it works for you, might not come around
to actually testing it for a while
17:10 <+iant> cbeck: yes
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17:18 < taruti> b0gg1e: that seems to produce dynamically linked things :(
17:19 * taruti hoped to find a memmove without cgo dependency
17:19 < b0gg1e> yeah sure it uses cgo
17:19 < b0gg1e> just nicely wraps it in a safe and sane way
17:19 < b0gg1e> nah no magic in here :-)
17:20 < b0gg1e> why dont you want to use cgo?  memmove is faster than any go
loop you could write
17:21 < b0gg1e> what are you after?  if you dont use cgo, how come you want
to copy a c ptr?
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17:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bK7Go by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/io/ -- pipe:
implementation #3; this time for sure!
17:26 < b0gg1e> copying between two *byte shoudl be straight foward...  cast
to unsafe.Pointer, write, increment, repeat.
17:27 < b0gg1e> get *byte from []byte: &byteArray[index]
17:28 < b0gg1e> other way around: you have to copy, cant cast a *byte into
an []byte
17:29 < taruti> b0gg1e: only that go doesn't allow for that "increment"
17:30 < b0gg1e> sure?  what about
unsafe.Pointer(uintptr(unsafe.Pointer(*byte)) + uintptr(1))
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17:32 < b0gg1e> still dont see why you would have this problem if you do not
deal with C
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17:37 < taruti> b0gg1e: solved it with C without cgo :)
17:37 < taruti> b0gg1e: I am interfacing fuse
17:38 < b0gg1e> without cgo?
17:38 < b0gg1e> how are you doing that?  writing prototypes manually?
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17:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bK9gz by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/json/ --
json: preserve field name case by default
17:39 < b0gg1e> but I like that you write a C interface for fuse.  how are
you linking that?  havent figured how to pass and -lfoobar to 6l
17:39 < b0gg1e> all this is so badly documented
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17:42 < taruti> b0gg1e: just avoid the C library crap altogether :)
17:43 < taruti> b0gg1e: talking on the wire to fuse kernel module.
17:43 < b0gg1e> ah ok this possible but you pay with serialization
17:44 < kimelto> morning!
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17:44 < b0gg1e> im wrapping libzmq, no going over the wire for me unless i
want to reimplent it in go
17:44 < b0gg1e> hello, kimelto
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17:45 < taruti> b0gg1e: yes.  I have already such serialization code in an
another language and thus it is quite trivial (although somewhat tedious) to wrap
it up with Go.
17:45 < kimelto> dho_plan9: I gess I now have to read what does the io
module
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17:45 < b0gg1e> how bad is the perf penalty for this?
17:46 < taruti> b0gg1e: at least in Haskell it was much faster than going
through the C library
17:46 < b0gg1e> i kinda could handover *byte to libzmq directly BUT then I
need to ensure that Go doesnt GC it while zmq is still busy
17:47 < b0gg1e> while its possible to do so i ve decided to wait for the new
GC in hope of a more tractable solution and copy for noe
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17:53 < dho_plan9> kimelto: I think it must be a kernel bug.
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17:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKaGm by [Christopher Wedgwood] in
go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: use int64 for timestamps
17:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKaGv by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/json/ --
json: streaming
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17:56 < Davidian1024> whowas john
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17:58 < kimelto> dho_plan9: oh yeah my first kernel bug :)
17:58 < kimelto> I must find it and write a fix ;p
18:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKc41 by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/go/printer/ -- gofmt: don't strip mandatory ()'s around composite
literals in control clauses
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18:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKftn by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/go/parser/ -- go/parser: don't require parens around composite literals
inside a composite literal
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19:00 < kimelto> dho_plan9: diving into devstat :/
19:02 < dho_plan9> it may be a goose chase.  I don't know.  It seems really
weird -- definitely bad if running a process like that will affect memory in other
processes.
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19:17 < taruti> Is there a clever way of handling C structures with a
variable length char[] at the end in Go?
19:24 < b0gg1e> dont think so
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19:26 < dignan> taruti: char[] can vary in length in C?
19:27 < taruti> dignan: there are several ways to do that in C.
19:27 < dignan> taruti: you can use [] on a char*, but that doesn't make it
a "variable length array"
19:27 < dignan> taruti: it is just syntactic sugar for *(x + n)
19:27 < ptrb> do you mean the struct hack?
19:27 < dignan> why is it that you need a special way to handle this
19:28 < taruti> ptrb: yes
19:28 < taruti> meh.  unsafe to the win again :)
19:29 < dignan> is this because Go omits pointer arithmetic?
19:31 < ptrb> heh, yeah, have fun with that :)
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19:31 < taruti> it seems one can do pointer arithmetic just fine :)
19:32 < dignan> It said in the lecture I watched that Go deliberately omits
it..  There is a hack that lets you do it, the struct hack?
19:33 < dignan> oh god, it's a C trick
19:33 < kimelto> dho_plan9: I think im goin to commit suicide :)
19:33 < dignan> I have never written code like that, i am a do-good.
19:34 < kimelto> dho_plan9: doesnt work now and symon's not running
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19:44 < dho_plan9> huh.
19:46 < kimelto> ok so I have two apps which cause the bug :)
19:46 < kimelto> same line, same step of the build
19:46 < kimelto> strange
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20:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKl6U by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/test/ -- 6g bug: no need for parens around array index expression
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20:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKmfM by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/go/printer/ -- gofmt: fine-tune stripping of parentheses
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20:39 < taruti> Is "func FuseOpen(*Open) Error" (which mutates the Open
structure) or "func FuseOpen(*Open) (Flags,FH,Error)" more intuitive in Go?
20:40 < uriel> what is FH?
20:41 < uriel> and why does one version need to return Flags and the other
doesn't?  does FuseOpen just modify the Flags?
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20:44 < taruti> uriel: FH is just a fancy name for a uintptr, in the first
case the function just mutates those values inside the structure
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20:59 < uriel> taruti: I really think it will depend how the whole api is
intended to be used
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21:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKouJ by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/rpc/ -- rpc:
abstract client and server encodings
21:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKouS by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/json/ --
json: delete obsolete code
21:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKov9 by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- rpc/jsonrpc: support for jsonrpc wire encoding
21:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKovv by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc:
fix islocalname on windows
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21:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKpBv by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/go/printer/testdata/ -- fix build
21:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bKpBA by [Robert Griesemer] in go/test/bench/
-- pidigits: ~10% performance win by using adds instead of shifts
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22:03 < addos> is there anyway to write go code that can execute on the gpu?
22:04 < kmeyer> No.
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22:11 < jpic> hi, does gobuild build on x86 with current release for you?
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