--- Log opened Tue May 11 00:00:56 2010
00:01 < Soultaker> why does this panic?
http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=y7AFp8ME
00:02 < Soultaker> library bug?
00:02 < Soultaker> or did I use the API wrong?
00:18 < Soultaker> By the way, why can I take the address of a literal
struct but not a literal int?
00:18 < Soultaker> e.g.  type Foo struct {int x}; return &Foo{} is fine
00:18 < Soultaker> but type Foo int; return &Foo(0) is not.
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00:36 < divoxx> There is a C lib that expects a pointer to a function as
argument.  I'm trying to call this function from Go using cgo but doesn't seem to
work
00:37 < divoxx> is it possible or I'm probably doing something wrong?
00:38 <+iant> Soultaker: &Foo{} allocates a new instance of Foo; it's a
special case of composite literal
00:38 <+iant> divoxx: to pass a function pointer from Go to C you need to
write some wrapper functions yourself
00:38 <+iant> cgo could probably do this for you but it currently doesn't
00:38 <+iant> there was a post on the mailing list giving an example of how
to do this
00:39 < divoxx> I've searched the mailing list but didn't find anything
related...  will look again
00:39 < divoxx> thanks
00:41 < Soultaker> iant: as I understand it, return &Foo{} is more or less
equivalent to var x Foo = {}; return &x
00:41 <+iant> Soultaker: yes
00:41 < Soultaker> the latter works for ints too
00:41 < Soultaker> but the shorthand doesn't
00:41 < Soultaker> what's the idea behind that?
00:41 <+iant> divoxx: look at the message from Ostsol in
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/d1824928719244c6/100b92392a42b7af?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=cgo+function+pointer#100b92392a42b7af
00:42 <+iant> Soultaker: it's a special case for composite literals; the
mailing list has had some discussion about opening it up to other types, but no
action has been taken
00:42 < divoxx> thanks iant
00:43 < Soultaker> ah ok.  i wondered about that.
00:52 < Soultaker> for what it's worth, the big integer bug goes away if I
initialize the result with new(big.Int) instead of big.NewInt(0)
00:52 < Soultaker> not sure why though.
00:52 < Soultaker> and the problem occurs with QuoRem and DivMod too btw.
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01:05 < Soultaker> apparently the problem is that big.Int creates an empty
but non-nil array to represent zero
01:05 < Soultaker> and then in divLarge defined in big/nat.go
01:05 < Soultaker> there is a check: z2 == nil || &z2[0] == &uIn[0]
01:06 < Soultaker> which triggers an index out of range error
01:08 < Soultaker> it seems to me like it should be len(z2) == 0 instead of
z2 == nil
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01:11 < Soultaker> but actually that whole line makes no sense to me
01:11 < Soultaker> because if z2 is nil or empty, then it can never be an
alias of uIn which (according to the preconditions) is at least 2 long
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01:13 < Soultaker> so I'd say it should actually be "if len(z2) > 0 &&
&z2[0] == &uin[0] { .."
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01:16 < Soultaker> although I guess z2 could alias a slice of uIn even if it
has len(0)
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01:16 < Soultaker> not sure if that's actually possible in practice though.
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01:30 < Soultaker> ok, since no developers seem to be present, I've created
a bug report for this instead.
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03:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/c3DSG by [Nigel Tao] in go/src/pkg/exp/draw/
-- drawGlyphOver optimization.
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07:44 < jlouis> How does 6cov work?  I get breakpoint errors here
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16:57 < kimelto> morning!
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16:59 < jessta> morning
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18:43 < artefon> hi guys, does GO already has a graph lib?
18:44 < jessta> artefon: what kind of graph?
18:44 < artefon> like travelling salesman problem graph
18:44 < artefon> with nodes and edges
18:45 < artefon> is there an effort already being done in this way?
18:45 < jlouis> artefon: those are fairly easy to make
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18:46 < exch> if there is, it'll likely be on here
http://go-lang.cat-v.org/pure-go-libs or http://go-lang.cat-v.org/library-bindings
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18:48 < artefon> jlouis, yes they are
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18:49 < artefon> jlouis, but efficient distributed sparse ones are not
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18:49 < artefon> exch, thanks
18:49 < artefon> :)
18:49 < jessta> artefon: there has been reluctance to write lots of
containers because of the current indecision around generics
18:50 < jlouis> artefon: graph is overloaded, we are talking about G = (V,
E) with src : E -> V and trgt : E -> V being functions right?
18:50 < jlouis> V, E sets
18:50 < jlouis> oh, we are I see
18:51 < artefon> jessta, ooo i get it
18:51 < artefon> jlouis, yep
18:52 < jlouis> generics are going to be fun to add to that language
18:52 < braddunbar> jessta: What's the indecision about?  From reading the
docs I got the impression that they were already in the works
18:52 < Ginto8> braddunbar: probly implementation
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18:53 < taruti> braddunbar: about the proper way to do generics.
18:53 < taruti> implementation is not that hard.
18:53 < Ginto8> generics add an entirely new level of complexity to
compilers and the language in general
18:53 < taruti> having a sound design for generics is hard.
18:53 < Ginto8> what taruti said
18:53 < Ginto8> by implementation I meant how they work
18:53 < Ginto8> and the general design structure
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18:54 < taruti> exactly.
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18:54 < braddunbar> they're certainly needed though - one of the first
things I wanted to do was write a generic Sum func
18:54 < Ginto8> braddunbar
18:54 < braddunbar> Ginto8: yes?
18:55 < Ginto8> type Adder interface { Add(other Adder) Adder }
18:55 < taruti> I was annoyed at the lack of generics before writing Go
code.
18:55 < Ginto8> you could use somethin like that
18:55 < Ginto8> taruti: same
18:55 < taruti> After writing more Go code I don't seem to miss them very
much.
18:55 < Ginto8> but then I saw interfaces and I was like
18:55 < Ginto8> =O
18:55 < taruti> For some things they would be convenient (containers) but
most code is very elegant without them.
18:56 < exch> interfaces don't solve everything
18:56 < braddunbar> Ginto8: huh, that sums up my feelings exactly
18:56 < exch> there is still a mountain of time assertion needed
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18:56 < exch> *type
18:56 < jlouis> you need it for container types, yes
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18:56 < jlouis> unless you like doing downwards casts from interface{}
18:56 < Ginto8> exch: yes, but interfaces can still be extremely useful
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18:56 < exch> no argument there, but they don't replace proper generics
18:57 < Ginto8> yep
18:57 < Ginto8> btw can interfaces have unexported functions?
18:58 <+iant> yes
18:58 < Ginto8> ok cool
19:03 < jlouis> I have a hunch interfaces are going to be the hard part if
you want to add interfaces.  You could probably take java-style generics with
little effort
19:03 < jlouis> but perhaps that is not the semantics you want from your
generics
19:05 < jlouis> The (essentially bounded quantification) of that language is
rather hard to track for most programmers
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19:28 < MizardX> Why do i get the error "ns = <-i.ticker.C used as
value", when I do "switch { case ns := <-i.ticker.C: ...  }"?  I thought that
is the syntax for channel multiplexing.  (i.ticker is a timer.Ticker; i.ticker.C
is a <-chan int64)
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19:29 < jessta> MizardX: you're looking for "select"
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19:30 < MizardX> Oh. Never noticed there where two.  :S
19:30 < MizardX> switch/select
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19:30 < MizardX> Thanks
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20:54 < anschelsc> I'm not understanding something obvious again...
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20:54 < anschelsc> if I've made a new type with "type foo []int"
20:55 < anschelsc> how do I make a new foo with length greater than 0?
20:55 < anschelsc> what's the equivalent of "[]int{1,2,3}"?
20:55 < Soultaker> foo([]int{1,2,3}) should work I think?
20:55 < exch> foo{1,2,3}?
20:56 * sladegen votes for []foo{1,2,3}...
20:56 < exch> foo is already a []
20:56 < ni|> *nod* :)
20:57 < Soultaker> turns out foo{1,2,3} and foo([]int{1,2,3}) both work.
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20:57 < Soultaker> so the first seems the way to go :)
20:58 < anschelsc> thanks humans
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21:40 < plexdev> http://is.gd/c4NW3 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/json/ --
json: fix array -> non-array decoding
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21:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/c4P3E by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/netchan/ --
netchan: be less chatty during gotest
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22:15 < exch> oh christ on a stick.  I'm having a debate with an objective-C
nut about the merits of insanely verbose code vs short syntax
22:15 < exch> No surprise that he abhores Go :p
22:16 < jlouis> code is to be read more than written :)
22:16 < exch> He has this peculiar notion that objective-c is easier to
read/maintain because of it's extreme verbosity
22:17 < taruti> arguing over syntax differences sounds stupid
22:17 < jlouis> Some people can not be saved
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22:18 < jlouis> I don't have an opinion on Go yet.  With less than a 1000
lines of code written, you are not entitled to an opinion
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22:20 < kmeyer> jlouis: refreshing :P
22:20 < exch> the argument started because of this
http://gist.github.com/397937 An example of why Go interfaces are awesome
22:21 < taruti> exch: I think that Go code is ugly.
22:21 < kmeyer> exch: usually such interfaces are called Getter and Len(n)er
22:21 < kmeyer> taruti: look at the second box
22:22 < taruti> kmeyer: that is ugly too.
22:22 < kmeyer> taruti: ot
22:22 < kmeyer> oh
22:22 < kmeyer> huh, ok
22:22 < exch> I love it
22:22 < kmeyer> *shrug*, looks fine to me
22:22 < jlouis> The language which has a construct most resembling Go's
interfaces are Ocamls objects.
22:23 < taruti> the whole ptrvalue-thing is ugly
22:23 < kmeyer> that's reflection for you
22:23 < jlouis> they also form a structural subsumption/subtyping relation
implicitly
22:23 < uriel> 22:16 < jlouis> code is to be read more than written :)
22:24 < uriel> jlouis: and concise and uncluttered code is easier to read
than verbose code
22:24 < kmeyer> uriel: +1
22:24 < kmeyer> I like the short essay on variable-name-lengths you've got
on your site somewhere :)
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22:24 < jlouis> uriel: indeed.  That was exactly the reason for my statement
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22:25 < uriel> rob's essay on C programming style perhaps?
http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle
22:26 < jlouis> Also, the larger the code base the less overview you have.
Yet another reason to prefer succinctness
22:26 < uriel> jlouis: oh, I have seen so many people that think verbose
code is more readable..  ugh
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22:26 < kmeyer> uriel: ah, yes.  oops, it talks about other things too
22:26 < kmeyer> the bit I agree with most strongly is probably the part I
remember; )
22:26 < taruti> both extremes suck
22:27 < taruti> e.g.  some perl code is a good example that shorter !=
better.
22:27 < exch> this guy compared Go to perl.  where perl is obviously ane
xample where brevity causes failure
22:27 < jlouis> taruti: APL, J or K are better
22:28 < Soultaker> golfscript is best!
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22:28 < jlouis> I must admit I find Go somewhat on the verbose side of
languages
22:28 < jlouis> It is not C++, C or Java, but it is close
22:28 < taruti> not having ?: makes for that
22:28 < Soultaker> more verbose than scripting languages to be sure
22:28 < jlouis> Soultaker: and Haskell
22:28 < Soultaker> yes, a conditional operator would be nice
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22:29 < jlouis> The MLs and Erlang is less verbose as well
22:29 < jlouis> although the Erlang is somewhat like cheating
22:30 < taruti> :D
22:30 * taruti thinks Erlang is ethical and thus not cheating
22:30 < jlouis> as the idiom in Erlang is not to handle the error case but
let the process crash :)
22:31 * taruti thinks of Go as quite similar to that
22:31 < taruti> panic+defer
22:32 < taruti> if there would be a partial assignment that could panic it
could be quite similar
22:34 < jlouis> I don't think so as there is no concept of linked goroutines
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23:39 < Soultaker> I'm a little confused by how interface types work
23:40 < Soultaker> if a function takes a variable of type interface{} as an
argument, then I can pass a struct or a pointer to struct
23:40 < Soultaker> if I pass a struct, does this mean the struct is passed
by value?
23:40 < Soultaker> or are interfaces alwayes references to some object?
23:40 < kmeyer> either way it's pass by value
23:40 < kmeyer> one way you're passing the value of a pointer, the other
you're passing the full struct
23:42 < Soultaker> hmm ok, does that mean that if I add elements to a Vector
the values are actually stored in the vector (like in C++) and not references to
objects (like in Java)?
23:42 < kmeyer> probably
23:44 < Soultaker> I have a hard time imagining how that's implemented, but
that's actually kind of nice.
23:47 * sladegen points to the obvious and states sagely: "use the force, luke.
read the source."
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23:49 < Soultaker> yeah, because the best way to learn a new programming
language is to check out the source code of the leading implementation and read
through it from top to bottom :/
23:49 < Ginto8> it's the source of the PACKAGE
23:49 < Ginto8> vector.Vector stores interface{}'s
23:49 < Ginto8> which means if you pass it a value, it stores that value
23:50 < Ginto8> you then have to type-cast (or w/e it's called) back to the
type you wanted it to be
23:50 < Soultaker> oh, I've looked at that long before, but that does very
little to explain how conversion to interface{} actually works
23:50 < Ginto8> interface{} is any struct
23:50 < Ginto8> or data type
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23:51 < Soultaker> yes, I understand that now.
23:51 < Ginto8> and an interface{} stores the value
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23:55 < Soultaker> so suppose I have type MyType struct {x int}
23:56 < Soultaker> and a := MyType{1}
23:56 < Soultaker> and var b interface{} = a
23:56 < Soultaker> why can't I do b.(MyType).x = 123?
23:56 < Ginto8> you can't?
23:56 < Soultaker> maybe because (b.(MyType)) is not an lvalue (if that term
applies at all to Go)?
23:57 < Soultaker> (compiler says "cannot assign to (b.(MyType)).x")
23:58 <+iant> yes, that is the problem
23:59 < Ginto8> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Type_assertions
23:59 < Ginto8> If the type assertion holds, the value of the expression is
the value stored in x and its type is T.
23:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/c4VMP by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: prevent crash if remote server is not responding with
"HTTP/"
23:59 < Ginto8> ^ for expression x.(T)
23:59 <+iant> the left hand side operand of an assignment statement must be
addressable
--- Log closed Wed May 12 00:00:03 2010