--- Log opened Sat May 29 00:00:00 2010
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00:33 < Eko> Why does the testing documentation show the var()s from regexp?
00:33 < Eko> !gopkg testing
00:33 < GoBIR> Eko: Package testing - http://golang.org/pkg/testing
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00:34 < Eko> does testing actually duplicate the regexp functionality?
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02:48 < Eko> If I have a package that I wrote that I think might be a good
addition to the core packages, what would the protocol for submitting something
like that be?
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02:49 < kmeyer> create a change set and send it for review
02:49 < kmeyer> the process is described somewhere on the site...
02:49 < kmeyer> http://golang.org/doc/contribute.html
02:51 < Eko> kmeyer: thanks!
02:51 < kmeyer> np :)
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05:44 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ctYYW by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/netchan/ --
netchan: improve closing and shutdown.  there's still more to do.
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13:52 < jnj> I'm playing with the Go-OpenGL package.  Any ideas how to
convert a *uint8 result from glGetString to a string?
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13:53 < jnj> (it's an array of chars, zero-terminated, ie.  classic string)
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14:14 < jessta> jnj: have you tried string(thearray)
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14:20 < jnj> jessta: yeah, doesn't work.  I ended up changing the Go-OpenGL
getString to return a string.
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14:31 < jessta> jnj: makes sense
14:31 < jessta> I think string() only works on a slice
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14:34 < jnj> jessta: Yeah, think you're right.
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16:02 < Eko> jnj: not sure what it does in cases like yours, but I have used
the bytes package (specifically NewBuffer and .String()) in similar cases.  I
don't think they were zero-terminated though.
16:02 < Eko> !gopkg bytes
16:02 < GoBIR> Eko: Package bytes - http://golang.org/pkg/bytes
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18:55 < jnj> I'm trying to locate a problem with regards to OpenGL usage..
Is it possible to get some unique id for the current goroutine?
18:55 < jnj> (or the underlying thread)
18:57 < Eko> jnj: you can get what essentially amounts to a stack trace with
runtime.Callers or runtime.Caller
18:58 < jnj> Eko: Thank you, I'll check that out.
18:59 < Eko> jnj: however, the "current goroutine" is the innermost function
that you've started with go, so I'm not sure if that is really what you're looking
for, as it should be discernable by reading the code, yes?
18:59 < Eko> actually, I guess if you're calling a function from multiple
goroutines it might not be.
19:01 < pmyshkin> what's the best way to read a file full of space separated
floats and output an array of floats?
19:02 < pmyshkin> right now the only way I can see is bufio.ReadBytes ->
[]byte -> string -> Atof -> []float
19:02 < Kashia> maybe fmt.Scan ?
19:03 < jnj> Eko: I agree my concern is: OpenGL calls needs to be issued
from the same thread (for most implementations).  My program crashes when I do:
initOpenGL(); doOpenGLStuff();
19:04 < jnj> If I move all of doOpenGLStuff() into initOpenGL it does not
19:04 < jnj> My only guess right now is that the two functions somehow are
called in different threads..  if that is even possible.
19:05 < Eko> pmyshkin: you could also go with vector.Vector.Push and
fmt.Scan() and then use a make([]float, floatVec.Len()) and a for loop
19:05 < Eko> jnj: chances are your entire program is in the same OS thread
unless you changed GOMAXPROCS
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19:06 < Eko> !goprog multi CPU
19:06 < GoBIR> Eko: Q. Why no multi CPU -
http://golang.org/doc/go_programming_faq.html#Why_no_multi_CPU
19:06 < jnj> Eko: Yeah, I changed that to 1 quite a while ago.  The reason
I'm thinking about threads is that the program does not crash with
runtime.LockOSThread
19:07 < jnj> Eko: and seperate calls to init- and do-OpenGL stuff
19:07 < Eko> hmm.
19:07 < Eko> jnj: I would recommend making an OpenGLServer that does
LockOSThread and then sits in a loop waiting for RPCs on a channel
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19:08 < jnj> Eko: I agree, i'm just curious, to say the least, about what's
happening.  Is it possible the scheduler changes current-thread at some point, but
otherwise continues the program as normal.  If that makes sense (my english is not
that good)
19:08 < Eko> so you can then do whatever you will from the rest of the
program in whatever threads or goroutines
19:10 < Eko> I haven't used the opengl library enough to be able to
postulate what might be happening
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19:19 < pmyshkin> I guess Fscan would work better, thanks guys
19:23 < pmyshkin> Fscanln is still a little awkward as I'd have to know the
number of fields per line ahead of time
19:24 < pmyshkin> so I have to create a byte buffer for each line and then
Fscan over that
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19:35 < pmyshkin> is this idiomatic?
19:35 < pmyshkin> for n, err := fmt.Fscan(linebuf, &f); n != 0; n, err =
fmt.Fscan(linebuf, &f)
19:36 < pmyshkin> it seems less elegant than the C idiom of performing the
assignment in a while condition
19:36 < pmyshkin> while (n = fmt.Fscan(linebuf, &f))
19:39 < jnj> for n,err:=fmt.Fscan(linebuf, &f);n!=0 {..}
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19:40 < pmyshkin> jnj, but won't I have to include n,err =
fmt.Fscan(linebuf, &f) in the body of the loop then?
19:42 < jnj> Actually, my example is not even valid ..
19:43 < jnj> My bad
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19:48 < jnj> pmyshkin: i guess you could do for n:=0; n!=0; n,err=fmt.Fscan
but it's not that much prettier
19:49 < jnj> eh, n:=1
19:49 < jnj> or whatever, !=0.
19:49 < pmyshkin> but then f won't have the correct value in the first
iteration
19:49 < jnj> pmyshkin: ah, sorry I thought the body was empty..
19:50 < pmyshkin> the essential problem here is that there's no way to unify
the initialization and increment statements
19:50 < jnj> pmyshkin: for { if n,err:=fmt.Fscan;n==0 { break } ...  } ?
19:50 < pmyshkin> jnj, my bad, I just didn't feel like typing the body
19:50 < pmyshkin> ah, that'll work
19:50 < pmyshkin> thanks
19:50 < jnj> pmyshkin: which is a "hack" of course, but it's what I do
19:50 < jnj> pmyshkin: it's not as nice as the C version
19:51 < pmyshkin> doesn't look too bad
19:51 < Eko> jnj: you could do for n,str := strings.Split(filecontents, " ",
0) { flt := strconv.Atof(str); … }
19:52 < pmyshkin> is there supposed to be a range in there?
19:52 < Eko> though you would probably want the Split before that so you can
floatSlice := make([]float, len(pieces))
19:52 < Eko> yeah, lol
19:53 < Eko> I'm so used to ruby et al that the compiler continually reminds
me to put "range" ;D
19:53 < pmyshkin> luckily range is also used in python
19:54 < pmyshkin> but I constantly make mistakes between := and =
19:54 < Eko> heh.
19:54 < Eko> am I missing an easy case insensitive string comparison
somewhere?
19:57 < pmyshkin> what's the easiest way to convert from []byte to a string?
19:58 < Namegduf> string(foo)
19:58 < Namegduf> A cast will do it.
19:59 < pmyshkin> thanks Namegduf
19:59 < Namegduf> No problem.
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20:01 < pmyshkin> Namegduf, so the cast will work regardless of whether foo
is a slice or an actual array?
20:02 < Namegduf> I believe it works on a slice, not sure about array.
20:03 < Eko> I was having trouble yesterday converting from a uint8[] to a
string even though the function said that it returned a byte[].  It was quite
annoying.  I had to use bytes.NewBuffer([]byte).String()
20:07 < pmyshkin> Namegduf, it apparently doesn't work for an array
20:08 < pmyshkin> this doesn't make any sense
20:09 < Namegduf> pmyshkin: You can always slice the array.
20:09 < pmyshkin> I know, but I would have thought it would be the other way
around
20:09 < Namegduf> Getting an array from a slice requires a copy.
20:10 < Namegduf> Taking a slice is the more generic way.
20:10 < pmyshkin> but it says in the language def "Strings behave like
arrays of bytes but are immutable"
20:13 < Eko> pmyshkin: use bytes.NewBuffer([]byte).String if you must
20:13 < Namegduf> He doesn't need to.
20:13 < Namegduf> He can just slice the array.
20:13 < Namegduf> And pass that to string()
20:14 < pmyshkin> I'm just trying to get what the cast is doing
20:14 < Namegduf> pmyshkin: It's doing a copy.
20:14 < Namegduf> pmyshkin: That's the only way to get something immutable
from something mutable.
20:14 < Eko> Namegduf: should that work for []uint8 too?
20:15 < Namegduf> Eko: Not sure, I've not tried and don't remember.  Might
be worth a shot.
20:15 < pmyshkin> Namegduf, oh, I didn't realize casts actually execute code
20:15 < Eko> Namegduf: because I fought with this for like an hour yesterday
and couldn't get a cast to work.
20:18 < Namegduf> pmyshkin: They can where they need to; casts in Go always
result in a valid thing of the target type.
20:18 < Namegduf> So if a int == int32, converting one with int32() probably
does very little, but int64() will do the instructions needed to make a valid
int64
20:19 < Namegduf> (Exception: unsafe package)
20:20 < pmyshkin> strangely, there's nothing in the language def about casts
20:20 < Namegduf> They might be called conversions or something
20:20 < pmyshkin> oh, thanks
20:22 < pmyshkin> it still seems a little strange that conversions are so
smart
20:22 < Namegduf> They are in C, too, and most high level languages
20:22 < Namegduf> C just kinda mixes smart and stupid
20:23 < Namegduf> A char cast to int will do what is needed, as will a
floating point cast to int
20:23 < pmyshkin> I guess I never really understood how they worked
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20:25 < Namegduf> I would assume pointer casts would do the same if the
pointers had different formats, but have no intelligence as regards what the
pointer points at.
20:25 < Namegduf> I don't know.
20:29 < pmyshkin> I just did a simple test and as expected the string
conversion is taking time linear to the length of the slice
20:29 < Namegduf> Yeah, unfortunately.
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20:30 < pmyshkin> anyway, thanks for clearing all this up for me Namegduf
20:30 < Namegduf> No problem.
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20:55 < pmyshkin> if a function returns an error value, what's the idiomatic
way to check that no error occurred?
20:55 < pmyshkin> would it just be len(err.String()) == 0 ?
20:56 < Namegduf> pmyshkin: err == nil
20:56 < Namegduf> Or just if err
20:56 < Namegduf> Well, !err
20:57 < pmyshkin> oh, so it's always going to be a pointer, that makes sense
20:57 < Namegduf> It's an interface.
20:57 < Namegduf> Interfaces are nullable.
20:57 < Namegduf> (Because they're basically pointers with benefits)
20:57 < pmyshkin> haha
20:57 < pmyshkin> thanks
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21:02 < Eko> pmyshkin: I usually do something like if val, err :=
funcWithErrorReturn; err != nil {} where val has been predeclared (so that err
doesn't float around in my namespace)
21:03 < Soultaker> Eko: that doesn't actually work, I think?
21:03 < Eko> in the default makefile, is there a target that formats all of
the source files
21:03 < Eko> Soultaker: sure it does.
21:03 < Soultaker> not if val is declared outside the scope I mean.
21:04 < Soultaker> it's one of the little 'problems' that I haven't seen a
good solution for yet
21:04 < Eko> hmm.  Now I must check.  I hope that hasn't introduced any bugs
>_>
21:05 < pmyshkin> Eko, also, wouldn't val not be in any scope except the if
?
21:05 < Soultaker> I think your code introduces 'val' as a variable local
the scope of the if-statement.  that works if you also have an else-block, but
that introduces a lot of nesting which isn't always nice.
21:06 < Eko> yep, you're right.
21:06 < Eko> luckily, it looks like most of the time I change away from that
anyway.
21:08 < Eko> in the same scope when it's already been declared you can still
do val, err := if err hasn't been declared
21:08 < Eko> which is what I was thinking.
21:08 * Eko is going to go grep his code for that now, lol
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21:15 < Soultaker> you can certainly do it.  Go allows variables to be
shadowed, which is actually nice for the if err := ..  idiom
21:15 < Soultaker> I'm not 100% sold on the idea that this is an adequate
substitute for exceptions though.
21:17 < Namegduf> It isn't a substitute for exceptions, it's a substitute
for error returns, which exceptions are often abused to replace.  :P
21:18 < Namegduf> panic() is the handler for true exceptional conditions.
21:18 < Soultaker> that comes across as a bit of a hack to me
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21:20 < Soultaker> I understand the use of panic() for unrecoverable
operations, but it's pretty ugly to use it for conditions that normal code should
be able to handle
21:20 < Namegduf> "conditions that normal code should be able to handle" are
pretty much the definition of "not exceptional conditions"
21:21 < Soultaker> yes, ok, so in that case go requires you to manually
check all error conditions, which detracts from normal program flow immensely.
21:22 < Soultaker> for example, if I want to read a bunch of parameters, I'd
want to do something like:
21:22 < Soultaker> a := ReadInt(); b := ReadFloat(); c := ReadString()
21:22 < Soultaker> however, there's no error checking here.
21:22 < Soultaker> in Java, I could write something like:
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21:23 < Soultaker> try { a := ReadInt(); b := ReadFloat(); c := ReadString()
} catch (SomeException e) { /* handle error */ }
21:23 < Soultaker> which at least separates normal code flow from error
handling and only forces me to handle errors at one place.
21:23 < Soultaker> in C++ the std::iostream collects the first error and
let's subsequent operations fail, which is also really nice:
21:23 < Soultaker> if (!std::cin >> a >> b >> c) { /*
error handling here */ }
21:24 < Namegduf> Your weirdass ReadInt() stuff could do similar if you
like.
21:24 < Soultaker> it seems that in Go the only way to do this is to (1)
predeclare all variables because I cannot use undeclared and declared variables in
one multiple assignment statement
21:24 < Namegduf> Also fun in Java is when you're doing that with IO
functions, and you need to close the FD in your catch
21:25 < Namegduf> You can't?
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21:25 < Soultaker> (2) check for errors for every read even if I'm only
interested in whether the whole group succeeded or not (which is 99% of I/O
scenarios in my experience)
21:25 < Soultaker> so you end up with something nasty like:
21:25 < Soultaker> var a int
21:25 < Soultaker> var b float
21:25 < Soultaker> var c string
21:25 < Soultaker> var e io.Error
21:25 < Soultaker> if a,e = ReadInt; e != nil { /* handle error */ }
21:25 < Soultaker> if b,e = ReadInt; e != nil { /* handle error AGAIN */ }
21:25 < Namegduf> Er
21:25 < Soultaker> if c,e = ReadInt; e != nil { /* handle error YET AGAIN */
}
21:25 < Namegduf> No.
21:26 < Soultaker> erm, s/ReadInt/ReadInt()/ etc.
21:26 < Namegduf> That's code you'd get *if you were interested in
individual errors*
21:26 < Soultaker> so how are you supposed to collect them then?
21:26 < Namegduf> If you just wanted the whole group, you could quite
happily just check e at the end.
21:26 < Namegduf> You're also supposed to use defer() to handle cleanup
21:26 < Soultaker> no I can't, because ReadInt() might fail, but
ReadString() might succeed.
21:26 < Namegduf> So if you have a lot of stuff in your error handling
21:27 < Namegduf> Soultaker: That totally depends on your I/O functions.
21:27 < Soultaker> well true, which is why the Scanner code I wrote to use
with the GCJ was modeled after C++'s iostreams, which I think are most convenient.
21:27 < Namegduf> Soultaker: In the case of the C++ ones you're comparing it
to, that's false.  If you're making the Go ones behave different/less weirdly just
because, then it'ss not a fair comparison.
21:28 < Namegduf> The Go way is to use defers to not need massive amount of
crap in error handling.
21:28 < Namegduf> So you're not duplicating anything significant.
21:28 < Namegduf> This also makes other early return conditions clean.
21:28 < Soultaker> how does defer() solve this problem?
21:28 < Soultaker> now you're just handwaving ;)
21:28 < Namegduf> You clearly don't know that, *given that you just asked
what I meant*.
21:29 < Soultaker> and I certainly can use C++ idioms when writing Go code
(and I have indeed done so), the point I was making that the recommended way to do
error handling in Go is not ideal.
21:29 < Namegduf> defer() removes the need for much cleanup code beyond the
return itself
21:29 < Namegduf> Because you defer cleanup of something at the point it
becomes necessary
21:29 < Soultaker> Namegduf: could you be a little less belittling?
21:30 < Soultaker> I know what defer does.  I just don't see how it solves
the problem I posed.
21:30 < Namegduf> The problem you were whining about was duplication of
error handling.
21:30 < Namegduf> The bulk of error handling is cleanup.
21:31 < Namegduf> Go does not require cleanup to be duplicated, and thus
makes the problem massively less bad than your example with significant parts
commented out would suggest.
21:31 < Namegduf> (It also gets cases where you'd just be using try...
finally...  for "free")
21:31 < Soultaker> not just the duplicatio nof error handling.  the fact
that I have to manually sequence operations with if/then/else operations if I have
a sequence of operations, each of which could fail, and I want to terminate the
whole sequence when one does.
21:32 < Soultaker> I've given code snippets in three languages to support my
point; please show me how it's done rather than handwaving about defer() ;)
21:32 < pmyshkin> Soultaker, concerning the issue with :=, I just found this
in the language def: "Unlike regular variable declarations, a short variable
declaration may redeclare variables provided they were originally declared in the
same block with the same type, and at least one of the non-blank variables is
new."
21:32 < Namegduf> Ah, I thought that was the case, yes.
21:33 < Namegduf> Soultaker: You are correct in that it introduces
boilerplate to bubble up the errors.
21:33 < Soultaker> well, that was mainly my point ;)
21:33 < Soultaker> and that's tedious sometimes.
21:34 < Namegduf> "sometimes", yes, but not in the majority of code.
21:34 < Soultaker> although it's appropriate when you want detailed info
about when and where the first failure occured
21:34 < Namegduf> And making it explicit provides guarantees that errors are
handled properly; checked exceptions do this too.
21:34 < Soultaker> it depends a bit on the type of code you write.  in my
opinion C++'s iostreams are very well-designed in that the designers recognized
tha in the majory of cases you do not need this amount of detail
21:34 < Soultaker> making the common case easiest
21:35 < Soultaker> while still allowing you to get precise information when
required.
21:35 < Soultaker> I feel that Go forces you to do a lot of work every time.
21:35 < Soultaker> I don't believe checked exceptions force anything in a
strict sense.
21:35 < Namegduf> I'm not using a "strict" sense.
21:36 < Soultaker> I've see too much Java code of the form try { /* code */
} except { }
21:36 < Namegduf> I've written quite a bit, usually while trying to close
FDs in an except block
21:36 < Soultaker> and in Go, I write a, _ := ReadInt() and be done with it
too
21:36 < Namegduf> I'm looking at it in a maintainability sense.
21:36 < Namegduf> They force you to either address errors or very very
explicitly ignore them.
21:37 -!- dju_ [dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts
21:37 < Namegduf> You'll never have your program die due to an unhandled
exception with checked exceptions or Go.
21:37 < jnj> While I'm definitely getting what you are saying Soultaker,
I've never been a fan of try { f1();f2();f3(); } If fN fails and I only aim to
continue if all succeds, why do fN+1,fN+2, etc.  It just seems..  wrong I guess.
If you care about which one fails (say you want to retry N and continue with
N+1,N+2), try won't work anyway
21:38 < Soultaker> pmyshkin: Re the := thing: I just verified and in that
case you ARE creating a new variable which shadows the previous declaration.
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21:38 < Namegduf> Soultaker: It's valid for your "I have to predeclare a, b,
and c" thing
21:38 < pmyshkin> Soultaker, really?  that seems to go against the language
def
21:38 < Soultaker> I think my build is a week or two old though
21:38 < pmyshkin> "Redeclaration does not introduce a new variable; it just
assigns a new value to the original."
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21:39 < Soultaker> maybe I did something wrong
21:39 < jnj> var a int; a,err:=Bla() updates value of a.  if a,err:=Bla()
creates new 'a' with if-scope.
21:39 < Soultaker> http://pastie.org/983690
21:39 < Soultaker> ah, I'm trying with an if-statement
21:39 < pmyshkin> so it's the if that is creating the new scope, not the
redeclaration
21:39 < Soultaker> because in the scenario 'b' is an error which I want to
handle.
21:40 -!- plavcik [~plavcik@bilbo.navratil.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
seconds]
21:40 < Soultaker> (the code snippet I pasted prints '1' because the
assignment to a in the if-statement is to a separate variable)
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21:40 < Soultaker> that makes sense I guess, but still doesn't solve the
problem of assigning a value to an existant variable while still checking the
resultant error
21:41 < Soultaker> I also think this makes some things a lot uglier.  Did I
understand correctly that this is valid go:
21:41 < Soultaker> var a, b int
21:41 < Soultaker> a, err := f()
21:41 < Soultaker> if err != nil { /* someting */ }
21:41 < Soultaker> a, err = g()
21:42 < Soultaker> if err != nil { /* something */ }
21:42 < Soultaker> err, I meant b the second time
21:42 < Soultaker> with the point being that the first time I must use :=
because err has not been declared, but the second time I must NOT use := because
it would not introduce new variables?
21:43 < pmyshkin> I think it'll be fine if you use := the second time
21:43 < Eko> pmyshkin: nope
21:43 < jnj> using := with no new variables causes an error
21:43 < Eko> but if you do b, err := g() it'll be happy
21:43 < Soultaker> no, that's not allowed, because I cannot declare a new
variable with the same in the same scope.
21:43 < pmyshkin> oh, I see
21:44 < Soultaker> hmm, I guess that works in many cases..
21:44 < jnj> Soultaker: so yes, := first, = afterwards.  Your example is how
I currently do error-checking..
21:44 < Eko> Soultaker: you can only NOT use := if you are "redeclaring" ALL
variables in the same scope
21:45 < Soultaker> yes, that's clear now.
21:45 < Eko> and, as a user/sysadmin, I really appreciate it when I am told
exactly what input failed if I'm feeding something into an application
21:45 < Soultaker> I wonder if it would have been better if Go did not allow
shadowing at all
21:45 < jnj> Soultaker: While it's more code, it generally means more
specific error messages.
21:45 < Eko> so maybe the answer to your issue is that Go is forcing you to
be nicer to your users.
21:45 < Soultaker> because then I could have written if a, err := foo() {
/*..*/ } and Go could unambigously assign to an existant variable a.
21:46 < Eko> you also need the ; err != nil
21:46 < Soultaker> yes, that was just a typo.
21:46 < Eko> but the {}s wrap onto two or more new lines anyway
21:46 < Soultaker> or rather I forgot it =)
21:46 < Eko> so you're already looking at at least 3 lines of code
21:46 < Eko> what's a 4th to keep a in scope?
21:47 < Eko> you should probably have a comment or something too describing
what's going on for readability
21:47 < Soultaker> well, the way I see it there are two ways to fix the
problem:
21:47 < Soultaker> 1.  predeclare err even though it's only used in the
if-body (so you have to declare it in a higher scope than you use it)
21:48 < Soultaker> (so then you can use a,err = foo())
21:48 < Soultaker> or put the code that uses a in an else-block
21:48 < Soultaker> which is less nice i.m.o.  because it can create quite
deep nesting
21:48 < Eko> what problem?
21:48 < Soultaker> instead of having the 'main code' on a single nesting
level, you get a staircase of fragments
21:49 < Soultaker> the 'problem' of wanting to refer to 'a' outside the
if-statement
21:49 < Eko> see what I said above.
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21:50 < Eko> If you need a elsewhere, you just move the if by itself.
21:50 < Soultaker> maybe I misunderstood.  what did you propose exactly?
21:50 < Eko> which is a single line of extra code to prevent your staircase
issue
21:50 < Soultaker> ah ok, but then aren't you still introducing err in a
different scope then you actually need it?
21:51 < Soultaker> the whole point of allowing a declaration in an if
statement seemed to me to avoid having to declare variables in a greater scope
than where you need them.
21:51 < Eko> if you're worried about lots of error conditions, and it seems
you are, you might as well just reuse err anyway.  That way, any errors that are
discovered can be looked at by your defer closure.
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21:51 < Soultaker> (and by the way, I do what you suggest in several places,
because it seems one of the cleanest ways around the problem, but I felt it could
be nicer)
21:52 < Eko> they are there so that when they are convenient, you can use
them, and so that when they are inconvenient, you can NOT use them.
21:52 < pmyshkin> as a metacomment, this whole conversation kind of shows
that := is not as easily grasped as it may appear to a new user
21:52 < Soultaker> (so it's not a bad suggestion, but it's not completely
satisfactory imho.)
21:53 < Eko> pmyshkin: yeah, it actually confused me a lot when I first read
the description of them, and I've forgotten more programming languages than most
people I work with have ever learned.
21:54 < Eko> however, I don't know if reworking := so that it only declares
a variable if it is not in scope at all would be too drastic a change or not.
21:54 < Eko> it could concievably break a LOT of people's code
21:54 < kmeyer> I'd be a fan of pascal-stype ":=" and "=" or C-style "=" and
"==", but the ":="/"=" distinction kind of bugs me
21:54 < kmeyer> Eko: that's totally ok at this point
21:55 < Soultaker> I could imagine an explicit syntax to introduce new
variables
21:55 < Soultaker> e.g.  for a, var err := foo(); err != nil { }
21:55 < Eko> Soultaker: that's what var is ;)
21:55 < Eko> ah.
21:55 < Soultaker> though that's more verbose.
21:55 < Soultaker> I know, but currently var doesn't allow multiple
assignment, does it?
21:55 < pmyshkin> not too bad
21:56 < Soultaker> I'm not sure how that would work out if you want to
declare a and not b, or want to declare both.
21:56 < Soultaker> s/for/if/ btw
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21:56 < Eko> var a, var b, var c := func() actually looks fairly nice
21:56 < Soultaker> if var a, var b := foo() { } // is a lot more verbose
than now.
21:57 < pmyshkin> but it makes what is being declared very explicit, which
is good
21:57 < Eko> but if we're doing that, then what's to stop us from removing
:= entirely?
21:57 < Eko> you would always be able to say var x = f()
21:58 < Eko> eh, actually, I like := for telling the compiler to "infer
types for me"
21:58 < Eko> which I suppose would be the distinction.
21:58 < pmyshkin> var does that too
21:59 < Eko> orly?
21:59 < pmyshkin> doesn't it?
21:59 < pmyshkin> like you said, var x = f()
21:59 < Eko> I thought you had to say "var x type"
21:59 < pmyshkin> that infers the type of x from the return type of f()
21:59 < Eko> oh, maybe it does… because that's legit in a var ( x = f() )
21:59 < Eko> so it's probably fine not in the distribution.
22:00 < pmyshkin> for err variables you probably don't care whether they're
declared or redeclared, so maybe it's annoying to keep track?
22:00 < Eko> maybe we should introduce a ? variable alongside _ that is the
generic error variable?
22:00 < pmyshkin> Eko, your suggestion of allowing multi-assignments with no
new declarations also works
22:01 < pmyshkin> but it seems like they have a good reason for having that
condition
22:01 < Soultaker> on an unrelated note, is there a way to assign multiple
results in a normal var declaration?
22:01 < Soultaker> I can do: var i int = f()
22:02 < Eko> Soultaker: I occasionally will do a,b,c := true, false, false
22:02 < Soultaker> but I can't do: var i,j int = g() right?
22:03 < Eko> I'm not sure if there is a var syntax for doing something
similar with function returns.
22:03 < Soultaker> although I guess in that case the := syntax makes more
sense generally.
22:03 < Eko> indeed.
22:03 < Eko> and if you want an interface variable instead of one of the
return types, you predeclare it
22:03 < Eko> there may well be a var syntax for that though.
22:04 < Eko> !gospec variable declarations
22:05 < Eko> sigh.  The spec say you can only have one type in a variable
declaration statement.
22:06 < Eko> oh.
22:06 < Eko> !golang variable declarations
22:06 < GoBIR> Eko: Spec Section Variable declarations -
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Variable_declarations
22:06 < GoBIR> Eko: Spec Section Short variable declarations -
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Short_variable_declarations
22:07 < pmyshkin> aside: is there a generic MakeError("msg") function?
22:07 < Soultaker> I think there is something like os.NewError()?
22:07 < Eko> os.NewError(errortext string) os.Error
22:07 < pmyshkin> thanks
22:07 < Eko> np.
22:08 < pmyshkin> a related question, why doesn't string type have a
String() method?
22:08 < Eko> string is a basic, non-interface type
22:08 < Eko> and as such has no methods associated with it
22:08 < pmyshkin> right
22:09 < pmyshkin> I was hoping I could just return a literal string as an
error
22:09 < Eko> ah.  well, the convention is to use os.Error *shrug*
22:09 < Eko> or a boolean.
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22:23 < uriel> so many dumb/misinformed comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c93iy/
22:24 < uriel> so many dumb/misinformed comments:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/c93iy/
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22:24 < uriel> *sigh*
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22:27 < kmeyer> you expected better from reddit?  hah :P
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22:35 < pmyshkin> what's the difference between a cast and a type assertion?
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22:59 < hstimer> has anyone built go to something not ~/bin ?
23:00 < hstimer> I set GOBIN but it is still being built to ~/bin
23:00 < kmeyer> yeah, I've definitely installed it other places
23:01 < hstimer> kmeyer: you set $GOBIN where you wanted it build right?
23:02 < hstimer> kmeyer: what OS are you on?
23:02 < kmeyer> linux
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23:11 < hstimer> ah...  when you sudo it doen't pickup your environment
variables....  duh
23:13 < hstimer> I needed a sudo -E
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23:54 < Eko> pmyshkin: a cast actually changes the type of a value and will
error out in the compiler if it is improper.  A type assertion makes an interface
value into an interface or type value if it is already that type or a compatible
type.  If it isn't, it is a runtime panic (unless you use the special two-value
context, which gives you a boolean indicating success or failure)
23:54 < Eko> !gospec type assertion
23:54 < Eko> !golang type assertion
23:55 < GoBIR> Eko: Spec Section Type assertions -
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Type_assertions
--- Log closed Sun May 30 00:00:00 2010