--- Log opened Fri Jun 04 00:00:02 2010
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00:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cBF7l by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ --
fmt.Scan: %c
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00:30 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cBFWI by [Nigel Tao] in go/src/pkg/image/ --
Add Opaque method to the image types.
00:30 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cBFWN by [Nigel Tao] in go/src/pkg/exp/draw/
-- draw.Draw fast paths for the Over operator.
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04:02 <+iant> I think the SWIG patch is finally ready
04:03 < exch> \o/
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06:34 < jessta> could anyone explain how syscall.Syscall works?
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06:38 < Soultaker> I think it maps directly to the native syscall function
06:38 < jessta> oh, I see
06:38 < Soultaker> (so see man syscall/syscalls etc.  for details)
06:39 < jessta> ok, thanks
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07:50 < emiel_> hm, why are ShortVarDecls not allowed outside function
definitions, so in the TopLevelDecl?
07:56 < Soultaker> I guess it's a matter of style.  (for that matter, why
are function declarations only allowed at the top level?)
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08:01 < jessta> emiel_: it's about the parsing
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08:01 < emiel_> aha
08:02 < jessta> all top level decls start with a keyword, var,func,type etc.
08:03 < jessta> there are a number of things like that make the parser
simpler
08:03 < emiel_> ahyes, i see, okay
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08:03 < Soultaker> is that really necessary?  why isn't it necessary within
function scope?
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08:04 < Soultaker> it seems that a lot more complicated stuff can go inside
a function body than in the top-level scope, so if the parser can correctly
recognize short variable declarations in a function, then it certainly should be
able to do so at the top level.
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08:05 < Soultaker> although I can understand the desire to have all
top-level declarations be preceded by a keyword for consistency.
08:07 < EthanG> major goal in the design of Go: VERY fast compilation,
including parsing
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08:52 < Soultaker> EthanG: apart from that being the stupidest goal, I'm not
convinced that restriction improves parse speed by much
08:53 < EthanG> eh ok
08:53 < EthanG> wait
08:53 < EthanG> compile times are getting ridiculous
08:53 < Soultaker> you can probably get real statistics from actual Go
source, but I'd guess that 90% of tokens appear not in the top-level scope.
08:53 < EthanG> which doesn't answer your 2nd point, I'll admit
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08:55 < emiel_> Soultaker: thinking of it, there may be some awkward type
'guessing' required when allowing short decls on the top level, having myVar :=
myFunc(), where myFunc is defined at the end of the file
08:56 < Soultaker> I think the only thing that really makes parsing slow is
backtracking.  but any parser generator worth it's salt avoids that.
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08:56 < Soultaker> emiel_: you can still write "var x = foo()" can't you?
08:57 < Soultaker> doesn't that involve the same type guessing?
08:57 < Soultaker> (AFAIK "x := y" is equivalent to "var x = y" except you
don't have to write the var part, but I haven't consulted the language reference)
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08:58 < bortzmeyer> But can you put "var x = y" anywhere in the code?  I
thought it was only at the beginning of a routine
08:58 < Soultaker> I think you can do that on the top-level too.
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09:01 * emiel_ fighting with nickserv, wtf :)
09:02 < emiel_> Soultaker: anyhow, i didn't know the long var decls could be
without types?
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09:03 < emiel_> i see, apparently they can
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09:05 < Soultaker> I don't usually write them like that either (because they
you might as well use the short syntax).
09:05 < Soultaker> maybe the whole := syntax is superfluous.  I personally
wouldn't mind typing var to introduce new variables.
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09:23 < mpl> what I don't like about := is that when you realize you want to
introduce the var a bit earlier in the code, you have to change that := into an =.
and then you realize it was a mistake so you have to change it back, etc...
09:26 < jessta> seems about the same as any other kind of declaration
09:26 < bortzmeyer> mpl: true, it's annoying but having variables silently
being declared (and type-inferred) at the first use seems worse
09:27 < mpl> jessta: well, not in language like C, when I just declare my
var at the beginning and forget about it.  but I agree this practice has more
inconveniencies than the go way.
09:27 < mpl> bortzmeyer: yes.
09:27 < jessta> mpl: you can do the same thing in Go
09:27 < mpl> yep
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09:28 < mpl> the go way is a compromise and I think it's a good one as this
is pretty much the only thing that is annoying.
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09:29 < jessta> the shadowing of variables can be a bit weird too
09:29 < jessta> it's easy to miss the := and think it's a =
09:29 < mpl> yep
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09:30 < mpl> also it's not obvious with multiple returns what you're allowed
to do.  do both the vars have to be new ones, etc...  it takes me a bit of
thinking everytime.
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09:30 < mpl> which might be a good thing if it makes me stop and avoid a
mistake anyway.
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09:31 < Soultaker> ah right, that's probably the one thing in which :=
differs from var.
09:31 < mpl> jessta: btw, goplan9 indeed had everything I needed for my
little tool, thx.
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09:34 < jessta> mpl: what's the tool?
09:35 < mpl> jessta: I've posted to go-nuts, it should come up soon.  but
here it is http://bitbucket.org/mpl/xplor
09:36 < mpl> off for lunch now, ttyl.
09:36 < Ina> How can I rebind Stdin to a file?
09:43 < emiel_> dup2 ;)?
09:44 < emiel_> ah
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09:44 < emiel_> Syscall.Dup2 in go
09:44 < emiel_> *syscall
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09:51 < Soultaker> I suppose you can also assign to os.Stdin
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11:53 < emiel_> a scanner that supports .NextLine() and .HasNextLine() is
currently not part of the default go pkg, right?
11:56 < jessta> emiel_: what do you want your lines as?
11:56 < emiel_> i have input from a <-chan []byte, put this in a
bytes.Buffer, and then want to read a newline, if available only
11:56 < emiel_> *reat till
11:56 < emiel_> *read till
11:56 < emiel_> as string
11:57 < jessta> io.Reader.ReadString('\n')
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11:58 < jessta> io.Reader being an interface that bytes.Buffer implements
11:58 < emiel_> don't see this in the docs ;)?
11:58 < jessta> *satisfies
11:58 < jessta> emiel_: http://golang.org/pkg/bufio/#Reader.ReadString
11:59 < emiel_> yes, but this seems to block until the newline is available?
11:59 < emiel_> *new line
11:59 < jessta> oops, that was bufio.Reader not io.Reader
11:59 < jessta> anyway, yes it blocks
12:00 < jessta> what else is it supposed to do?
12:00 < emiel_> i want to check whether the next token is available first
12:00 < emiel_> a block will break my select
12:01 < jessta> what are you trying to achieve?
12:03 < emiel_> jessta: http://gist.github.com/425327
12:03 < jessta> if something blocks a lot of the time you can just put it in
a different goroutine
12:03 < jessta> but that dpends on what's you're tryin to do
12:03 < emiel_> hmm
12:05 < mpl> does go have ioprocs?
12:05 < mpl> if yes, I believe it could be your solution
12:06 < mpl> http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man3/ioproc.html
12:07 < jessta> emiel_: you want to read from stdout, in to a buffer and get
lines from that?
12:07 < emiel_> from my child process's stdout yes
12:08 < jessta> so make a goroutine that does that
12:09 < emiel_> but when and how will that goroutine end?
12:09 < jessta> when the channel is closed
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13:06 < dahankzter>
http://blog.golang.org/2010/04/json-rpc-tale-of-interfaces.html
13:06 < dahankzter> this kind of posts has to spread at least to peeps in
the java world :)
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13:55 < exch> rob's talk at stanford uni is enlightening.  Finally someone
who agrees with my views on how utterly ridiculous design patterns are
13:58 < vrtical> exch: link to a video?
13:58 < exch>
http://stanford-online.stanford.edu/courses/ee380/100428-ee380-300.asx direct link
to the stream
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13:59 < vrtical> thanks.
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14:33 < emiel_> "throw: all goroutines are asleep - deadlock!" < one of
my goroutines is actually time.Sleep'ing, is this a bug?
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15:29 < emiel_> noone?
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15:51 < exch> http://theoatmeal.com/comics/angler
15:51 < exch> eep
15:51 < exch> wrong chan :p
15:52 < mpl> emiel_: well I dunno if they are supposed to be all asleep.
but if you have only one thread, I'd say sending a coroutine to sleep effectively
blocks all the other coroutines of the same group since they wait for the sleeping
wait to release control.
15:52 < mpl> *the sleeping one
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18:06 < i__> maybe somebody else has already watched it but the google io
talk is online at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgVhBThJdXc
18:06 < exch> thanks
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18:13 < kmeyer> i__: thanks also :)
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18:47 < andrei1089> hi, there's no way to declare a static variable in go
right ?
18:48 < Ginto8> you could consider any exported var as static
18:48 < Ginto8> and any file in a package can access every var/func in that
package, regardless of the file it's in
18:50 < andrei1089> Ginto8, so if I declare a variable in a function with an
upper case name then it's static?
18:50 < Ginto8> what I mean it define "static"
18:52 < andrei1089> Ginto8, I want something similar to static in C, to
define a static variable in a function that it's not allocated on the stack
18:52 < Ginto8> a static var in a function?
18:52 < Ginto8> hmm just use a global package var?
18:52 < Ginto8> not exported obviously
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18:56 < andrei1089> Ginto8, I don't want to export it
18:56 < andrei1089> Ginto8, look at this example
http://www.java2s.com/Tutorial/C/0020__Language/Staticvariable.htm
18:56 < andrei1089> how could I write a similar f1 function in go ?
18:57 < Ginto8> one sec I'll get back to you
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18:58 < rsaarelm> You can't write such in-function static var in Go, but you
can use a global variable.
18:58 < Ginto8> yeah
18:58 < andrei1089> thanks rsaarelm
18:58 < Ginto8> what rsaarelm said
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18:59 < andrei1089> thanks Ginto8, I know a could use a global variable, but
it would be visible in the whole package then
18:59 < rsaarelm> As long as it's not visible outside the package it
shouldn't be a problem, just give it a distinctive name.
19:00 < Ginto8> well global vars are only considered bad in C/++ because
anyone including the header file can modify it
19:00 < Ginto8> but in Go not everything in a package is exported, so the
problem is nullified
19:00 < rsaarelm> They are also considered generally bad because they mess
up referential transparency.
19:00 < Ginto8> yeah
19:01 < Ginto8> but I don't think go allows variable hiding via scope
19:02 < rsaarelm> I was thinking more about packages becoming harder to unit
test and generally reason about if they have hidden state.
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19:03 <+iant> they have state whether the variable is static or global
19:03 < andrei1089> Ginto8, I've tried to hide a global var with a local one
in a function and it works
19:04 < andrei1089> so is there any resolution operator like :: in c++?
19:04 < Ginto8> orly?  interesting
19:04 < Ginto8> no just don't hide it
19:04 <+iant> andrei1089: no
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19:12 < Soultaker> you can hide locals with other locals too if you want (in
different scopes)
19:13 < exch> Google should fire the person doing the subtitles for IO
talks.
19:17 <+iant> I think it's a program
19:17 < exch> that explains things
19:20 < Soultaker> seriously?
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19:53 < cw> iant: i've seen subtitles added in near real-time
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20:26 < exch> Am I going blind?  There is some really peculiar compiler
error I can't seem to place.  Beginning to think it's a bug of some kind.
http://pastie.org/992346
20:28 < Soultaker> is Person also defined in the contacts package?
20:28 < exch> yup
20:28 < exch> main2() would not work if it wasn't
20:28 < Soultaker> no clue then :/
20:29 < Soultaker> I guess that's true..
20:34 <+iant> exch: note that every import statement that refers to a
specific package must use exactly the same name to refer to it
20:34 <+iant> that is, if you import "../lib/contacts" in one package, you
need to use that name in every other package that imports contacts
20:34 <+iant> otherwise you can get this kind of error
20:35 < exch> i'm not using it in any other package/file
20:35 <+iant> hmm
20:35 < exch> main.go you see there is the only file
20:35 < exch> http://pastie.org/992362 this is contacts.pb.go.  it's the
output of protoc as-is
20:36 <+iant> that seems like a bug
20:36 < exch> yea.  i'm just not sure where the bug is
20:36 < exch> the . alias works fine in main2()
20:36 <+iant> that is a different, and simpler, case
20:37 <+iant> struct literals with keys are tricky because the compiler
doesn't know the type when it is parsing the literal
20:38 < exch> hmm.  think I should file an issue for this?
20:38 <+iant> yes, please
20:39 < exch> alright
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21:06 < wsfulton> hi, I've just run all.bash and go has been installed in my
home directory, which is not what I intended.  How do I uninstall it, ie the
equivalent of the normal 'make uninstall'.
21:07 <+iant> I don't think there is a "make uninstall"
21:07 <+iant> you will want to remove the pkg directory
21:08 <+iant> also [68]{a,c,cov,g,l,nm,prof} and gopack, gopprof, goyacc,
quietgcc
21:09 <+iant> hmmm, also cgo, ebnflint, godefs, godoc, gofmt, goinstall,
gomake, gotest, hgpatch
21:09 <+iant> that is assuming all the files which usually go in bin wound
up in your home dir
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21:09 <+iant> finally, a few files will be installed in $GOROOT/lib
21:09 <+iant> I think that might be everything
21:10 < wsfulton> okay, thanks, I can see a bunch of stuff in bin, but can't
find pkg, should that be ~/pkg ?
21:10 <+iant> it will be $GOROOT/pkg
21:10 <+iant> whatever $GOROOT was
21:10 <+iant> by default it will be whereever you unpacked the sources, I
think
21:10 < wsfulton> yup, got it, tks
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21:11 < wsfulton> so the only stuff installed outside of $GOROOT is ~/bin ?
21:11 <+iant> yes
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21:12 < wsfulton> Would be nice if it had a ./configure --prefix approach
with a make install/uninstall like everything else.  But never mind, not hard to
sort out.
21:13 <+iant> yeah
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21:15 < exch> great timing for a power outage -.-
21:15 < Tonnerre> How so?
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21:16 < exch> I was just about to submit a go bugreport when our kitchen
exploded and half the electrical wiring in the house with it :p
21:16 < exch> no doubt a sign from the heavens
21:16 <+iant> yikes
21:17 < Tonnerre> That must have been one hell of a bug
21:18 < exch> heh yes it's a nasty one
21:18 < Tonnerre> «When I use library function X with arguments Y, the
kitchen explodes and the electrical wiring in the house melts down»
21:18 < Tonnerre> That would make for a seriously funny bug report
21:19 < exch> that's what you get for messing with systems programming
languages ;) I guess putting the go runtime in the doorbell wasn't such a good
idea afterall
21:20 < exch> anyhow.  Bug reported.  Nobody can stop me!
21:21 < Tonnerre> I think I'll report a Python bug.  «Every time I use the
Python crypto API, God kills a kitten»
21:21 < exch> some might see that as a feature :p
21:22 < Tonnerre> Until the Universe runs out of kittens and all Python
crypto code starts throwing OutOfKittenExceptions
21:22 < exch> :P
21:22 < exch> I should make a note of adding such an error to one of my
programs.  Just cos I can
21:22 < Tonnerre> Then the Java people will hack up a KittenFactory and hook
it up to Jython
21:24 < Tonnerre> exch, like
http://developer.android.com/reference/android/app/ActivityManager.html#isUserAMonkey()
?
21:25 < exch> hehe
21:25 < Tonnerre> Also,
http://developer.android.com/reference/android/util/Log.html#wtf(java.lang.String,
java.lang.String)
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21:27 < exch> nice :D
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21:33 < mpl> is it allowed to nest switch statements in Go?
21:33 < exch> why not?
21:34 < Ginto8> There shouldn't be any reason you can't
21:34 < jesusaurus> should be, give it a shot
21:34 < Ginto8> Switches act like if/else if/else blocks with optional
fallthrough
21:34 < mpl> dunno.  I seem to recall some other language gave me trouble
with that.  can't recall which one...
21:34 < Ginto8> so it should be fine
21:35 < Tonnerre> Reminds me of the break/continue/next mess with nested
loops…
21:35 < Ginto8> Tonnerre, that's eliminated in Go
21:35 < Ginto8> just label the loops
21:36 < Tonnerre> Ginto8, I know, thanks fro reminding me ;)
21:36 < Tonnerre> for
21:36 < Ginto8> and use break <loopname> or continue <loopname>
21:36 < Ginto8> np
21:37 < vrtical> What about Duff's Device?  :-)
21:38 < Ginto8> ?
21:38 < vrtical> You know, the interleaved loop and switch in C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duff%27s_device
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22:06 < mpl> yep, seems to be working.
22:06 < mpl> (nested switches that is)
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 05 00:00:01 2010