--- Log opened Thu Jun 10 00:00:10 2010
00:04 -!- grncdr [~stephen@sdo.csc.UVic.CA] has joined #go-nuts
00:06 < grncdr> this has undoubtedly been asked, but can somebody point me
at a simple "open a file and read it line by line" example for go?
00:11 < grncdr> also, what a reasonable number of goroutines on an 8-core
machine with 32GB of ram?  (more or less than a billion?)
00:15 < Ginto8> as for the number of goroutines, a lot.
00:15 < Ginto8> for open file and read line by line
00:15 < Ginto8> I'll get to you on that
00:15 < Ginto8> one minute
00:17 < uriel> in most cases more than a billion goroutines is not very
reasonable
00:17 < grncdr> I kind of expected so, but one can dream ;)
00:18 < uriel> goroutines are very cheap, but still you have to do some work
to make it worth spawning them if you want parallelization, and obviously on a
8-core machine no more than 8 goroutines will run at once
00:18 < uriel> really, you probably could start a billion goroutines, but
that wouldn't be very useful
00:18 < uriel> (note that there are other reasons to use goroutines other
than parallelization)
00:19 < Ginto8> ok grncdr there aren' any examples I can find, but look into
os.File, io.ReadFull, and bytes.Split
00:19 < grncdr> well let me give a bit of info on what I am doing and where
I thought a billion goroutines might help
00:19 < grncdr> thx Ginto8
00:19 < Ginto8> uriel: what reasons are there, out of curiosity?
00:22 < grncdr> I'm taking a terabyte-ish data set, stored in flat files
with unique id's beginning each line, and partitioning the identifiers into
approx.  1 billion smaller files that contain Identifier|Sourcefile combos per
line
00:23 < grncdr> it's kind of retarded, I think, but we currently don't have
a reliable way to find a source file for a particular identifier
00:23 < Ginto8> well the billion goroutines wouldn't last very long
00:24 < Ginto8> am I right in thinking that you'll take the file(s) and
split them, then start goroutines to create the small files?
00:24 < grncdr> yes
00:24 < grncdr> currently there's an implementation in perl, but it's too
slow and mem hungry
00:24 < Ginto8> in that case, it might be a little slow, but since every
goroutine will only last a short while, it won't be a major issue
00:24 < grncdr> that's another issue
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00:25 < grncdr> the biggest bottleneck right now is actually opening the
file handles for the small files
00:26 < grncdr> so ideally it would only be doing that once per file
00:26 < grncdr> realistically, a billion file handles is going to break
other stuff first :P
00:27 < Ginto8> yeah
00:27 < Ginto8> well you could do it in chunks of 100
00:27 < Ginto8> like set up a dispatcher tree
00:28 < Ginto8> a goroutine dispatches each set of goroutines that send a
confirmation back
00:28 < Ginto8> then it does the next one
00:28 < Ginto8> and so on
00:28 < Ginto8> so it minimizes system load at any given point
00:28 < Ginto8> while still making good use of parallelism
00:30 < grncdr> ok, now I'm still thinking fully in 'threads' so be
patient...  but chunks of 100 what?  identifiers?
00:30 < exch> a separate goroutine that traverses all files and pushes the
paths into a buffered channel with a maxium size of about 100 or so.  If it's full
it will simply block and wait until items are taken out..  Another goroutine polls
this channel and processes each filename it gets
00:30 < Ginto8> 100 goroutines
00:30 < exch> this way you will never have more than 100 files being handled
at the same time
00:30 < Ginto8> hmmm
00:30 < Ginto8> a buffered channel hangs if the buffer is full?
00:31 < exch> as far as I know
00:31 < grncdr> that's similar to what I've been doing with perl (one
scanner thread, 8 bucketer/partitioners)
00:32 < skelterjohn> yes - buffered channels block when full.
00:32 < grncdr> except the single scanner is reading the files and pushing
identifier/sourcefile combos to a queue for the bucketers to then pull out and
figure out where to write
00:33 < grncdr> exch: in your suggestion, is it possible/simple to have the
second goroutine (the processer) spawn a set number of goroutines underneath it?
00:34 < Ginto8> grncdr, yes
00:34 < exch> you can have it spawn as many/few as you need it to spawn
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00:36 < grncdr> ok, so if I can maintain references to each goroutine from
the processer (dispatcher), I could potentially send data to a goroutine with the
correct file already open
00:36 < Ginto8> no need
00:36 < Ginto8> use channels
00:36 < grncdr> Ginto8: big need
00:36 < Ginto8> no need for individual references
00:36 < Ginto8> anyway you can't really have a reference to a goroutine
00:36 < Ginto8> just have a count as to how many are running
00:37 < grncdr> ok, rephrase that, I need specific channels to get
identifiers that are suited to the goroutine listening at the other end
00:37 < Ginto8> have each send data on a channel back to the dispatcher,
causing the dispatcher to decrement the amount
00:37 < grncdr> it's vital that I don't close and re-open files for every
line I write
00:38 < exch> pass the goroutine a channel you write stuff to.  ch :=
make(chan T); go myFunc(ch); ch <- new(T);
00:38 < Ginto8> hmm?
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00:39 < grncdr> Ginto8: file opening is the slowest operation in this whole
mess (and it's outside of my control), so I want a goroutine to keep an open file
handle for as long as possible
00:39 < Ginto8> ok then
00:39 < Ginto8> have a goroutine for the big files
00:40 < Ginto8> which splits and sends a []byte over a channel
00:40 < Ginto8> to the dispatcher which either delegates it to another
goroutine, or waits for a free goroutine
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00:41 < exch> why would it have to close the file after each line being
read?
00:41 < grncdr> written
00:41 < grncdr> not read
00:41 < grncdr> the reading isn't the bottleneck
00:41 < exch> ah right.  the file depends on the identifier
00:41 < grncdr> yes
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00:42 < exch> Caching the open filehandlers isn't really an option then if
there are millions of files
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00:42 < grncdr> exch: I know, I'm just trying to minimize losses
00:43 < grncdr> to compare, the perl solution is writing to /dev/shm and
tarring the output when memory runs low
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00:43 < grncdr> tarring + moving that is
00:43 < Ginto8> oh god
00:43 < grncdr> yeah
00:43 < grncdr> it's that fucked
00:43 < Ginto8> that must be super slow
00:44 < grncdr> surprisingly
00:44 < grncdr> writing to RAM makes up for it
00:44 < grncdr> in spades
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00:45 < grncdr> because writing a million little files directly to the
destination (networked) filesystem is like pulling teeth
00:45 < grncdr> with safety scissors
00:46 < grncdr> so having the job occasionally say "time to make room" is
much faster
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00:47 < grncdr> exch: what I was aiming for is keeping a (rather high)
number of filehandles open
00:48 < grncdr> because I write to the same 100,000 files or so over the
course of a given minute
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00:48 < exch> You can at least minimize the open filehandlers by trimming
the filehandler cache periodically.  Close those files that haven't been written
to for 'a while'.  This will hardly be a great solution if there is no predictable
structure to the input data though.
00:49 < grncdr> when you say 'the' filehandler cache, is this some piece of
machinery under the hood?
00:49 < exch> nope.  You would have to write this yourself
00:50 < grncdr> heh, that would've been too nice
00:50 < exch> hehe
00:50 < grncdr> tbph the perl solution would've been fine if it didn't leak
memory so badly
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00:51 < grncdr> which brings me to my next question: anectdotally, how is
the GC in go?
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00:53 < grncdr> especially in regards to long running processes obviously
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00:54 < exch> the GC is a very simple one atm.  I'm not particularly aware
of it's internals, but don't expect any miracles from it
00:55 < exch> a new one is supposedly in the works
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00:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cJtNF by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/asn1/ --
asn1: allow '*' in PrintableString.
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01:02 < grncdr> exch: I'm not looking for miracles so much as "it works, I
never leak memory"
01:02 < Ginto8> it works
01:02 < Ginto8> and I don't believe it leaks memory
01:02 < exch> i haven't run any go programs long enough to make any
judgement on that unfortunately
01:02 < Ginto8> but don't forget defer File.Close()
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03:01 < exch> grncdr: Interesting little exercise.  I wrote my own little
implementation of what you are trying to achieve.  http://pastie.org/998795
03:01 < exch> That should basically be the idea
03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cJAix by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/path/ -- add
path.Base, analogous to Unix basename
03:02 < exch> I think the bottleneck here is the recursive call to recurse()
at line 91.  Should be able to remove the need for that somehow.  This is prolly
what causes the RAM usage to climb to ~100MB
03:05 < exch> a little under 1 million lines from 592 input files processed
in jiust under 70 seconds.  This program does not do any writing though.  Which is
prolly what you are most concerned about.  I'll see if I can some test stuff for
that to
03:06 < exch> There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of difference in speed
when playing with the channel buffer sizes
03:07 < exch> actually..  increasing the linebuffer to 1000 shaves 20
seconds off the time
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03:35 < grncdr> exch: sorry was afk, I'm reading over it now
03:35 < grncdr> or would be if pastie hadn't just died...
03:37 < grncdr> ah there we go
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03:45 < grncdr> exch: when you have a minute, I'm curious about the nested
'if err != os.EOF' on line 147, it doesn't make sense to me
03:45 < grncdr> also, thanks a ton
03:46 < grncdr> this is possibly the best introduction to a language yet
03:47 < exch> grncdr: that err != os.EOF makes sure we only log an error if
there really is one worth mentioning.  That function returns an EOF error simply
if the end of the list is reached
03:47 < exch> We don't have to report that as an error, but simply continue
processing
03:48 < exch> in this case it's the end of the data in the reader
03:49 < grncdr> yeah I meant more that you return inside the if, but the
only thing that prevents is the return immediately below it
03:49 < exch> There's another one of those on line 76 when reading a list of
FileInfo's.  It returns os.EOF if all files have been read
03:49 < grncdr> so I don't see what that buys you?
03:49 < exch> ah right, I see what you mean.  You are right :p
03:50 < grncdr> I was starting to think there was some implicit return value
magic happening
03:50 < exch> the return below that if statement should go, so any remaining
data in 'line' is still passed into the channel
03:51 < grncdr> ah, makes sense
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04:34 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cJE67 by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: James
Whitehead and Paolo Giarrusso (both individual CLA)
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04:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cJEOg by [Paolo Giarrusso] in
go/lib/codereview/ -- codereview: avoid exception in match
04:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cJEOl by [Paolo Giarrusso] in go/ --
.hgignore: ignore doc/htmlgen
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17:42 < iskren> hi there!
17:44 < iskren> when I have started a http server with (go http.Serve()) the
proper way to stop it is calling close on the net.Listener right?
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20:44 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cKzKA by [Russ Cox] in go/test/ -- test: check
that surrogate pair runes and huge rune values are rejected
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21:23 < MizardX> Woot!  Go routines working properly on windows :)
21:24 < Tonnerre> I want them to work properly on NetBSD
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22:10 < grncdr> ok, I'm stuck on reading gzipped files...
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22:12 < grncdr> if I open a file using os.Open, I should be able to just
gzip.NewReader(thatfile) right?
22:12 < grncdr> I keep getting invalid header errors
22:13 < exch> i've only used the gzip writer so far.  No clue if the reader
has issues
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22:31 < grncdr> ok, it's not gzip specific
22:32 < grncdr> can you look at this and tell me what noob mistake I'm
making?  http://pastie.org/1000149
22:32 < grncdr> (or anybody)
22:32 < grncdr> I get zero bytes read and an empty string, whereas the input
file contains a line of text
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22:34 < MizardX> grncdr: data is nil.  You have to initialize it first.
22:34 < MizardX> It is used as a buffer in fd.Read(data)
22:34 < grncdr> MizardX: with make() etc.  ?
22:35 < MizardX> Either that, or by defining an array with [128]byte{}
22:35 < MizardX> (128 being the size)
22:36 < MizardX> var data [128]byte
22:37 < MizardX> But it's probably easier working with slices
22:37 < grncdr> ok, I think slices are what I was trying for...
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22:37 < grncdr> because 6g is telling me that type [128]uint8 cannot be used
at type []uint8
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22:38 <+iant> you can use a slice or just write a[0:]
22:38 < grncdr> but I do need to initialize the underlying array beforehand
right?
22:38 < Soultaker> or &a right?
22:39 <+iant> Soultaker: actually I think &a is going away with the tweaks
to the assignment compatibility rules
22:39 <+iant> it does work at the moment, though
22:39 < Soultaker> ah ok
22:40 < Soultaker> it looks quite natural to me as a C programmer.  but that
doesn't necessarily mean it's a good feature of course.
22:47 < Soultaker> (although it's nice that it's short.  maybe something
like a[] would be a nice shorthand for a[0:len(a)])
22:48 <+iant> the len(a) is implied, so right now it's a[0:]
22:49 < kmeyer> a[:] for implicit 0 as well makes a lot of sense (given how
similar the slice notation is to Python)
22:49 <+iant> if Python does that that would be a reasonable argument for
doing it in Go
22:49 <+iant> I know it was proposed but I think there were concerns about
readability
22:50 < kmeyer> it's a very very common construct in Python code
22:54 < grncdr> I like it, I also miss negative indices
22:54 < grncdr> but there's probably a good reason they aren't there
22:57 < Soultaker> (i find the [:] idiom in Python a bit ugly tbh)
22:57 < Soultaker> also, the semantics would be very different.
22:59 < Soultaker> but yeah, a[:] to get a slice referencing an array looks
nice.
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23:13 < kmeyer> grncdr: I can't think of a good reason not to include
negative indexes :P
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23:23 < jesusaurus> has anyone been able to install go on bsd?
23:24 < jesusaurus> im getting an error about unknown reference to utimes
23:26 < grncdr> for a channel buffering lots of lines, is a string less
efficient than a byte slice?
23:26 < grncdr> and how about a struct of the above?
23:26 < grncdr> *memory efficient* that is
23:28 < Soultaker> IIRC a string is effectively a slice, so that's about
equally efficient.
23:29 < grncdr> they would be passed by reference and not value?
23:29 < Soultaker> yes.
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23:29 < grncdr> ok, kind of thought so (being immutable etc.)
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23:35 < exch> gotta love reinstalls of linux.  I think my archlinux install
messed up the partition table on one of my drives :s "Partition 1 does not end on
cylinder boundary." consequently, both partition 1 and 2 are considered
'corrupted'
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23:47 < uriel> jesusaurus: there is a FreeBSD port, I don't think the ports
to other bsds are in working state yet
23:47 < uriel> exch: more reason to use plan9 ;)
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23:50 < exch> I do enjoy playing around with OS installs.  Might give it a
try sometime
23:50 < exch> Fixed the partition issue though.  Gotta live CDs
23:51 < exch> *love
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--- Log closed Fri Jun 11 00:00:10 2010