--- Log opened Sat Jun 12 00:00:10 2010
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00:17 < steven_t> what advantages does go have over, say, python?
00:17 < steven_t> all the ones i know of is speed and concurrency
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00:18 < smw> steven_t, that is all I can think of
00:18 < smw> it gives static binaries
00:19 < smw> a user can not read the source
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00:20 < steven_t> they can read the assembly ;)
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00:22 < photron> go is compiled, so you get stuff like type safety checked
at compile time
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00:25 < steven_t> im not sure i see that as an advantage.
00:26 < steven_t> i like to play my types fast and loose.
00:26 < smw> steven_t, there are advantages to both
00:26 < steven_t> whats the advantage to compile-time type safety?
00:27 < smw> um, lack of random panics due to type errors not good enough?
00:30 < steven_t> ive programmed in objc and python.  i much prefer pythons
runtime-complaining than objcs compile-time warning
00:31 < photron> steven_t: a type error is a type error.  with go the
compiler will tell you, with python a user of a program will tell you, because
your test suite doesn't have 100% coverage and the user manages to hit some
branches you never exectuted
00:31 < photron> just as an example
00:31 < photron> s/user of a program/user of your program/
00:31 < smw> photron, that is a great way of explaining it.
00:32 < photron> thats why you should do serious programming in python with
a test driven approach
00:33 < photron> on the other hand proper test driven programming has more
advantages than compile-time type safety
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00:34 < Namegduf> You speak as if they're somehow conflicting
00:35 < photron> they aren't
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00:38 < photron> all i want to say is that compile-time type safety is nice
to have
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00:39 < photron> and that its more work to achieve the same thing in python
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00:59 < steven_t> well,
00:59 < steven_t> ok i guess i like that.
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01:01 < steven_t> does go have a c-like argument passing style for
functions?
01:01 < steven_t> i really dig python's style
01:01 < steven_t> especially the ability to pass in arrays and dicts to act
as natural args
01:02 < pizza_> oh, so you love python?  great.
01:04 < steven_t> im just curious if go has this feature
01:04 < steven_t> no need to be sarcastic :(
01:04 <+iant> no
01:09 < steven_t> thanks
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03:12 < ekontsevoy> Can I use Go to build extensions for Python or Ruby?
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03:23 < rsaarelm> ekontsevoy: I don't think so.
03:23 < rsaarelm> You'd probably need to call Go from C for that to work,
and call Go from C isn't working yet.
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03:41 < exch> rsaarelm: it does actually..  sort of.
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/c98b4c63ba739240?pli=1
03:42 < rsaarelm> Ah.
03:43 < rsaarelm> Doesn't look very straightforward though.
03:43 < exch> very true
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04:13 < ekontsevoy> rsaarelm: thanks
04:14 < ekontsevoy> that's a huge issue though...  that reduces the set of
applicable tasks to simple scripting, it seems :-(
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04:43 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cMiW5 by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- spec:
clarify that result parameters are always zeroed before the function executes.
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10:00 < BrowserUk> Is it possible to restart a go build from where it dies
rather than over again?
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10:48 < BrowserUk> No? Any thoughts about this error?: %%%% making cc %%%%
10:48 < BrowserUk> bison -y -d cc.y
10:48 < BrowserUk> C:\msys\bin\bison.exe: bison.simple: No such file or
directory
10:48 < BrowserUk> make: *** [y.tab.h] Error 2
10:48 < BrowserUk> cc.y is there
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11:09 < Jimmio> Hey all!  I have three files..  two are of package
"brainfuck", one needs to be of main.  How do I compile and link these?
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11:17 < waterwalker> 6g -o brainfuck.6 b1.go b2.go && 6g main.go && 6l
main.6
11:18 < Jimmio> Main will complain that it can't find the stuff in
"brainfuck"
11:18 < Jimmio> What's the point of packages..?
11:19 < taruti> -I.  probably
11:19 < Jimmio> Tried that too :/
11:27 < MizardX> It can't find "brainfuck", or it can't find the stuff
inside "brainfuck"?
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11:31 < Jimmio> Huh..  this is interesting..
11:31 < Jimmio> importing a package imports the whole thing into the
object..  so the linker only links that one object.  Huh.
11:31 < Jimmio> So it's my error.
11:33 < Jimmio> but now, I removed an if statement checking whether this is
okay or not, and it worked, then barked.  "throw: all goroutines are asleep -
deadlock!"
11:34 < Jimmio> (the if originally prevented it from working; it being
http://www.anarchyinthetubes.com/hg/hgwebdir.cgi/go/brainfuck/file/ddcf4bca3fd6
modified to work again (strings.Bytes doesn't exist anymore))
11:37 < Jimmio> I'm just calling the TestHelloWorld (and passing in nil, as
I don't know what that variable is for)
11:39 < BrowserUk> One step forward.  But now: < bison -y -d cc.y /
conflicts: 3 shift/reduce >?  Thoughts?  Curses?  Anything?
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12:28 < Jimmio> What does 8g search for for packages?  Can I use any file
extension?
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12:40 < BrowserUk> Hm. Seems my build problems are routed in that GNU bison
creates output file called y_tab.h & y_tab.c instead of y.tab.h y.tab.c (under
some mistaken impression that the OS cannot handle two '.' in a filename).  The
fix is to rename these file.  But there are many Makefiles where this needs to be
done.  Does anyone here understand the build process sufficiently to suggest a
short-cut to modifying them all manually?
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13:30 < Jimmio> How do you use os.Read?  Is there an easy way to read a line
from a file, and not have to check for \n and/or \r\n?
13:32 < skelterjohn> take a look at the io/ioutil package
13:32 < MizardX> Why does this cause the error "undefined: e"?  switch e :=
stack.Pop().(type) {...}
13:32 < skelterjohn> oh, that is not good advice
13:33 < MizardX> Jimmio: bufio.Reader.ReadBytes(delim byte) (line []bytes,
err os.Error)
13:33 < skelterjohn> take a look at bufio
13:33 < skelterjohn> yeah there we go
13:33 < skelterjohn> i knew io was in the package name somewhere
13:36 < Jimmio> I wish the docs had examples :/ How do I open a file for
reading using that?
13:38 * Jimmio is very tempted to type "ifstream file("MyFile.txt");"
13:42 < MizardX> f := bufio.Reader(os.Open("MyFile.txt", O_RDONLY, 0666));
line, err := f.ReadBytes('\n')
13:45 < Jimmio> and what should I use for the file permissions if..  say..
I'm on Windows?  xP
13:45 < Jimmio> The same thing?
13:45 < Jimmio> And thanks :D
13:47 < MizardX> I don't really know what the permissions are for.  It seems
to work if you put 0666 or 0444.
13:48 < photron> the persmission is probably only used when you open a
non-existing file for writing, in that case the files needs to be created
13:48 < MizardX> ok
13:49 < photron> that's a guess, i don't know for sure
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13:53 < Jimmio> Question.  func (what, are, these, for int) MyFunc(in, put,
arguments int) (out, put int) { } What are the first items in the parentheses for?
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14:03 < waterwalker> Jimmio: you should read the tutorial
14:04 < waterwalker> but in short: func (f *Foo) Bar() {} defines a method
Bar or objects of type Foo
14:04 < waterwalker> s/or/for/
14:04 < Jimmio> for objects of type?  Ah.
14:04 < Jimmio> Okay, that makes sense.
14:05 < waterwalker> in this case, f is the receiver
14:05 < Jimmio> So it's like C++ classes, in that it's a member function,
but they're not defined in the struct.
14:05 < waterwalker> yes, Go just doesn't use "this"
14:06 < waterwalker> instead, you name it yourself
14:06 < waterwalker> "f" in my example
14:06 < Jimmio> Hmm, neato!
14:06 < Jimmio> I'm liking Go more and more :D
14:07 < waterwalker> that's the spirit!
14:08 < Jimmio> It's a mix of the good in Javascript, the ease of use of
Python/Java, and the speed of (almost) C++
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14:09 < Jimmio> Though I would sacrifice "no semicolon needed" if I could
put my curly brace on the next line :<
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14:19 < rsaarelm> I always use "self" like in Python for the object
reference parameter, even though this is different from the style in the
libraries.
14:20 < rsaarelm> Just one less inessential decision to make when writing
code.
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14:23 < Namegduf> Why stop there?  I always call my variables x, y, and z to
avoid having to make decisions about their naming.
14:25 < waterwalker> for the receiver I ususally pick the first letter of
the type
14:25 < waterwalker> "self" and "this" have too many letters :)
14:25 < rsaarelm> Hm. "me" would be shorter.
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14:26 < Ina> "I"
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14:28 < rsaarelm> Yeah, looks like local variables starting with a capital
letter are valid.
14:28 < rsaarelm> Of course there's the problem that it looks like l and 1.
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14:29 < waterwalker> you should choose a better font :)
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14:37 < Jimmio> Is there a resizable array type?  Something like an
std::vector in C++?
14:37 < taruti> container/vector ?
14:37 < Jimmio> Oh o.O
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14:48 < BrowserUk> Thoughts on why <%error-verbose> would give error:
<src/cmd/gc/"go.y", line 117: junk after `%%' in definition section>?
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15:39 < wayneeseguin> I am confused as to the 8l / 6g commands, where can I
read what each mean and what the differences are?
15:39 < wayneeseguin> I've looked here http://golang.org/cmd/
15:39 < Tonnerre> 8l is the linker on i386
15:39 < Tonnerre> 6g is the go compiler on amd64
15:39 < Tonnerre> i386 → 8, amd64 → 6, arm5 → 5
15:40 < Tonnerre> linker → l, C compiler → c, Go compiler → g
15:40 < wayneeseguin> ahhhhh
15:40 < wayneeseguin> ok so there is some method to the madness
15:40 < Tonnerre> Found the method, still looking for the madness
15:40 < wayneeseguin> hehe
15:41 < wayneeseguin> For me it was an overwhelming # of commands where I
wasn't sure which I should be using
15:41 < wayneeseguin> Interesting, so roots in Plan 9 ?
15:42 < Tonnerre> Sure
15:42 < wayneeseguin> Is there a concept of 'C extensions' in Go ?
15:42 < wayneeseguin> eg.  take advantage of system libraries / tools
15:43 < Ina> There is such a thing as cgo]
15:43 < Ina> cgo *
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15:48 < BrowserUk> Can some chec which version of bison they are succesfully
building go with?
15:49 < taruti> 2.4.2 worked at least in the past
15:49 < Ina> 2.4.1 worked for my version of go
15:51 < BrowserUk> Hm: I (now) have bison (GNU Bison) 2.4.1.  How about m4?
15:52 < taruti> 1.4.14 (probably not needed?)
15:53 < BrowserUk> I'm getting <NONE:0: /bin/m4: ERROR: EOF in string /
bison: subsidiary program `/bin/m4' failed (exit status 1)> from <LANG=C
LANGUAGE="en_US.UTF8" bison -v -y -d go.y>
15:53 < BrowserUk> Is GNU m4 1.4 likely close enough?
16:00 < BrowserUk> taruti: Did you mean that particular version is not
needed; or m4 is not needed?
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17:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cMSZs by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- gopack: add S flag to force marking a package as safe
17:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cMSZy by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/runtime/ -- runtime: fix 386 signal handler bug
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17:56 < napsy> if my method implements an interface.  Why can't a cast that
type to the interface the calling function expects?
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18:08 < exch> could you rephrase that question napsy?  I don't think I quite
understand what you mean
18:08 < napsy> wait a sec, I'll upload the code
18:09 < exch> unless you mean your type implements an interface and you want
to cast it to said interface.  The answer would be that you dont have to cast it.
Just pas sit into the function as-is
18:09 < exch> the compiler will figure out if said type implements the
expected interface
18:10 < napsy> http://gist.github.com/435955
18:10 < napsy> it doesn't work
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18:11 < exch> ah.  a slice of a type is a type in it's own right.  casting
[]person to []sortable makes no sense
18:12 < exch> define p as []Sortable from the start.  You can fill it with
person instances because they each implement Dortable
18:13 < napsy> oh cool it compiles
18:13 < napsy> thanks
18:16 < napsy> it seems it needs some tuning, I get a panic
18:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cMUAI by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
less aggressive name binding, for better line numbers in errors
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18:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cMViM by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/ -- spec: remove
...  (keeping ...T)
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19:45 < napsy> Is there another way to concatenate two array without using
copy and custom array bounds?
19:48 < Namegduf> An array is a continuous block in memory.
19:48 < Namegduf> By definition, I don't think so.
19:49 < napsy> what about slices?
19:50 < Namegduf> Also continuous blocks in memory.
19:50 < exch> a slice is limited by the size of the underlying data
structure.  it's just a 'window' into that data structure.  You can't resize it
beyond it's underlying capacity
19:51 < napsy> what if I have enough capacity for a slice bit just want to
append data
19:52 < exch> then using copy to transfer that data into the slice should
work
19:52 < Namegduf> Then you can resize the slice up to the capacity, yes
19:52 < napsy> ok
19:53 < napsy> http://gist.github.com/436019 I have this naive quicksort
implementation and thought the slice concatenation could be prettier
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19:57 < arogantpenguin> how do I find the port for the ARM architecture?  I
wanna do some testing on my Android 2.1 - HTC Incredible
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21:10 < TenOfTen> anyone using protobuf?  c++ and python understand each
other, but Go pukes on the same data
21:10 < kmeyer> hm, i've been using C++ / Go protobuf with no trouble
21:10 < kmeyer> what sort of puke?
21:11 < TenOfTen> it won't unmarshal the file i have generated from c++ or
python
21:12 < TenOfTen> im noob at go, but it seemed quite straightforward, using
ioutil.ReadFile, create a new message, then proto.Unmarshal
21:13 < TenOfTen> any more examples than the README file?
21:13 < kmeyer> hrm
21:13 < kmeyer> let me look at my code
21:13 < kmeyer> it's been a bit
21:14 < TenOfTen> careful tho, latest goprotobuf doesnt compile, but the
checking from may 11th works
21:14 < kmeyer> ah, mine is older than that
21:15 < TenOfTen> f, _ := ioutil.ReadFile(fname) p :=
packet_test.NewThepacket() err := proto.Unmarshal(f, p)
21:15 < TenOfTen> thats supposed to be enough, right?
21:15 < kmeyer> ahhhh
21:15 < kmeyer> hrm
21:15 < kmeyer> does ReadFile return a buffer which is only as long as it
needs to be?
21:15 < TenOfTen> no idea, sorry
21:16 < kmeyer> one thing I noticed is that Go protobuf chokes if you hand
it more bytes than it needs
21:16 < TenOfTen> this is about as much go i've ever done
21:16 < kmeyer> e.g.  you have a 2k buffer, read in a 1k message, and hand
the 2k buffer to Unmarshal
21:16 < kmeyer> but you're not doing anything obviously wrong that I can
see.
21:17 < TenOfTen> i dont see why ReadFile would allocate more memory than
needed, doesnt seem very go-ish
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21:21 < kmeyer> welll, if I remember correctly it allocates based on stat()
(so it ought to be correct)
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23:11 < TenOfTen> kmeyer: did you have a working full code example for go
and c++ understanding the same protobuf data?
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by peer]
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timeout: 245 seconds]
--- Log closed Sun Jun 13 00:00:10 2010