--- Log opened Mon Jun 21 00:00:12 2010
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Verlassend]
05:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cXbLC by [James Whitehead] in go/misc/vim/ --
misc/vim: clarifies syntax highlighting installation instructions
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16:04 < wrtp> is anyone here up for testing a little demo program before i
post to golang-nuts?
16:04 < Ginto8> sure whats the program for?
16:05 < wrtp> it's a mandelbrot/julia browser
16:05 < wrtp> i.e.  playing with zooming into fractals etc
16:06 < wrtp> you'll need to be running X
16:06 < Ginto8> oh ok cool
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16:06 < Ginto8> yeah
16:06 < Ginto8> post it
16:06 < wrtp> there are a few goinstalls to get it:
16:06 < nsf> cool, give it to us
16:06 < Ginto8> ok
16:06 < wrtp> goinstall rog-go.googlecode.com/hg/canvas
16:06 < nsf> Ginto8: btw, I've sort of finished it:
http://github.com/nsf/gotris
16:07 < wrtp> goinstall rog-go.googlecode.com/hg/x11
16:07 < wrtp> gointall rog-go.googlecode.com/hg/cmd/mandel
16:07 < wrtp> s/gointall/goinstall/
16:07 < Ginto8> hmm aren't canvas and x11 part of the exp folder?
16:07 < wrtp> canvas isn't
16:07 < jnwhiteh> > goinstall rog-go.googlecode.com/hg/cmd/mandel
16:07 < jnwhiteh> goinstall: rog-go.googlecode.com/hg/cmd/mandel: package
has no files
16:07 < wrtp> x11 is, but this is a version with some changes that haven't
made it through yet
16:08 < Ginto8> oh ok
16:08 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: oh
16:08 < wrtp> one mo
16:09 < wrtp> oh yeah, you can't goinstall mandel 'cos it's a command
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16:09 < wrtp> cd $GOROOT/src/pkg/rog-go*/hg/cmd/mandel; make
16:09 < wrtp> GOMAXPROCS=2 mandel
16:10 < wrtp> where 2 is the number of processors on your machine
16:10 < Ginto8> wait do we put GOMAXPROCS=n after make?
16:10 < jnwhiteh> how do I zoom in?
16:10 < jnwhiteh> Ginto8: its a runtime thing so you use it when you run it
16:10 < wrtp> you zoom in with double-click-drag
16:10 < jnwhiteh> doesn't matter if its set with amke
16:11 < wrtp> you get a julia set at a point with the middle button
16:11 < Ginto8> jnwhiteh, so as a runtime parameter?
16:11 < wrtp> (sorry you need a three button mouse)
16:11 < nsf> app is very slow
16:11 < jnwhiteh> its just an environment variable
16:11 < nsf> too slow
16:11 < wrtp> GOMAXPROCS is a parameter for running mandel.
16:11 < nsf> you should use opengl or something to draw dots
16:11 < jnwhiteh> yeah it does seem very very sluggish.
16:11 < nsf> it will be much faster
16:12 < wrtp> it's fairly slow, yes, but it's doing quite a lot of
calculation
16:12 < nsf> I think it could work much faster
16:12 < Ginto8> slow as hell
16:12 < jnwhiteh> it runs much better with more runtime threads
16:12 < jnwhiteh> I have a dual core CPU, and its much faster with 6
processes
16:12 < wrtp> is it slow even when all the tiles have been drawn?
16:13 < Ginto8> and how exactly do I set the number of runtime threads cuz
I've never bothered with that
16:13 < jnwhiteh> panning is fine (ish)
16:13 < jnwhiteh> Ginto8: ...  GOMAXPROCS
16:13 < jnwhiteh> that's what that line is doing
16:13 < wrtp> ok, well panning is where you see the drawing overhead
16:13 < wrtp> the rest is calculating the set in real time
16:14 < Ginto8> oh oops lol
16:14 < wrtp> oh yes, it could be 4 times as fast, at the outer level.
16:14 < Ginto8> I added spaces before & after the =
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16:16 < jnwhiteh> It'll be really interesting to see all the code that puts
it together, even if its a bit sluggish =)
16:19 < wrtp> if you drag with the middle button, it shows you the julia
sets as you go around
16:20 < wrtp> i like that bit - you can see how the whole "mandelbrot set is
the set of connected julia sets" thing actually works
16:20 < wrtp> anyway, i'm glad it seems to work
16:20 < wrtp> i could probably make it faster by optimising the inner loop
16:21 < wrtp> it might be interesting to try a 64-bit fixed-point version.
16:21 < wrtp> given that machines are 64 bit these days
16:21 < Ginto8> well a lot ar
16:21 < Ginto8> are*
16:21 < Ginto8> mine isn't
16:21 < Ginto8> =/
16:22 < wrtp> oh well, i'll see whether it makes a difference here
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16:23 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: i've tried to build it out of reusable parts.
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16:31 < wrtp> oops, embarassing bug, it doesn't zoom in correctly if you've
panned
16:31 < wrtp> fixed now
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16:35 < nsf> wrtp: btw, setting your "iterations" number to something like
64 makes it MUCH faster
16:35 < nsf> and still beautiful
16:35 < nsf> 1024 is way too much
16:35 < wrtp> nsf: yes, but it needs to be more when you zoom in,
particularly close to the edges of the set
16:35 < nsf> probably
16:36 < wrtp> really you need to be able to change the number of iterations
interactively
16:36 < wrtp> but i haven't done that yet (it's not hard)
16:36 < wrtp> only slight difficulty is exp/x11 doesn't provide keyboard
input yet
16:36 < nsf> and the x11 interface experience is super sluggish, I think it
can be done really smooth using opengl
16:37 < wrtp> probably.  but the underlying calculation is pretty hefty
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16:37 < wrtp> so i think it's always going to be fairly slow
16:38 < nsf> well it doesn't matter how slow it is :) we still have our fun
watching google earth for example, and it downloads images via network!
16:38 < wrtp> anyway it's an experiment in what can be done with the go
native libraries
16:38 < nsf> anyway, nice app :)
16:41 < wrtp> it's doing on the order of 70e9 floating point ops for each
screen, so it's not surprising it's not too quick...
16:41 < wrtp> cheers
16:42 < wrtp> i'm sure i could do some of the graphics with opengl, but this
way you see how the go runtime works.  you're interacting directly with the
scheduler; each tile is being calculated with a separate goroutine.
16:43 < nsf> well, I've played a bit more and I think good results can be
done that way:
16:43 < nsf> iterations = 256
16:43 < wrtp> that's the number i started with
16:43 < nsf> TileSize = 20
16:43 < nsf> for some reason small tiles works better
16:43 < nsf> work*
16:44 < wrtp> are you running with GOMAXPROCS > 1 ?
16:44 < nsf> 4
16:44 < nsf> on 2 core cpu
16:45 < wrtp> i'll make both iterations and tilesize interactively
adjustable...
16:45 < nsf> yep, that would be nice
16:46 < wrtp> (at the cost of covering up a little of the fractal with a
couple of unsightly slider-bars...)
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16:46 < skelterjohn> dare i try to get this working on OS X?
16:46 < skelterjohn> i like attractive things
16:46 < skelterjohn> and don't like being left out :)
16:46 < nsf> install linux :)
16:47 < skelterjohn> i've got plenty of linux, just not on my macbook
16:47 < skelterjohn> i can run X11 stuff here...  i haven't done anything
from the dev side but some ported apps get launched in an X11 app
16:47 < wrtp> skelterjohn: i've developed it under OS X
16:48 < skelterjohn> cool, i'll give it a shot
16:48 < skelterjohn> i asked because i've tried to get the rog-go stuff
working before without success
16:48 < skelterjohn> but maybe i can try harder this time
16:48 < wrtp> ok - let me know what errors you get...
16:51 < skelterjohn> well, the goinstalls and "make" in the mandel directory
worked fine this time
16:51 < skelterjohn> i don't htink i got this far before
16:51 < skelterjohn> but running ./mandel: 2010/06/21 12:54:08 no window:
unsupported Xauth
16:51 < skelterjohn> and i don't know enough about X11 on the mac to debug
this
16:51 < skelterjohn> or X11 anywhere else, for that matter
16:52 < wrtp> are you running it within an X11 window?
16:52 < wrtp> e.g xterm
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16:52 < skelterjohn> i ran it from terminal
16:53 < skelterjohn> i'll see if i can find out how to run an xterm
16:53 < wrtp> you need to start X
16:53 < skelterjohn> aha, i type "xterm" and i run an xterm
16:53 < skelterjohn> ok, from an xterm, with X11 running, i get the same
error
16:53 < wrtp> ok, wait a mo
16:54 < Ginto8> xterm is pretty much tthe same as a terminal
16:54 < Ginto8> except that it's in x
16:54 < Ginto8> =P so there shouldn't really be a difference
16:54 < Ginto8> if the error happens before the window opens
16:55 < wrtp> Ginto8: yeah, i thought he meant the mac os Terminal app
16:55 < skelterjohn> before it didn't work from xterm either, i would have
said "maybe that's because no xserver was listening"
16:55 < wrtp> skelterjohn: what does echo $DISPLAY give you?
16:55 < Ginto8> even the mac osx terminal app should be about the same as
xterm
16:55 < skelterjohn> /tmp/launch-gXga4h/:0
16:56 < wrtp> that's the same form as mine
16:56 < wrtp> are you running with a recently updated version of go?
16:56 < skelterjohn> i updated last week
16:56 < skelterjohn> i can do it again
16:57 < wrtp> ...  and ran all.bash?
16:57 < skelterjohn> yes :)
16:57 < skelterjohn> i'm updating again, though
16:57 < skelterjohn> i'll get back to you in a few minutes
16:57 < wrtp> hmm.
16:57 < nsf> I think I'll do this mandelbrot thing in opengl
16:57 < nsf> I really like the app :)
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16:58 < skelterjohn> opengl seems unnecessary for mandelbrot...
16:58 < skelterjohn> or do you do shape rendering to find it?
16:59 < nsf> skelterjohn: well if you want to zoom and pan it is
16:59 < nsf> because opengl gives you a tight control of gpu memory and
there is also texture filtering
16:59 < skelterjohn> but you aren't doing any 3D->2D transformations
16:59 < nsf> for example I could make it render low res versions first and
the higher and higher
17:00 < nsf> it will be much better user experience
17:00 < nsf> I bet
17:00 < nsf> skelterjohn: opengl isn't just for 3d
17:00 < nsf> it works for 2d very well too
17:00 < Ginto8> skelterjohn, even for 2D if you need really good performance
when it comes to graphics opengl is what you want to use
17:00 < nsf> well of course these days I will probably make a mandelbrot
program using shaders
17:01 < nsf> but that would be interesting
17:01 < Ginto8> yeah
17:01 < nsf> wouldn't
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17:01 < nsf> *
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17:01 < nsf> the idea is to test Go's goroutines
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17:01 < wrtp> nsf: yes
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17:03 < nsf> Ginto8: can I ask you to check out my tetris game?
http://github.com/nsf/gotris
17:03 < nsf> some people say that it segfaults
17:03 < skelterjohn> wrtp: now i get a whole slew of error when i try to
build mandel: http://pastebin.com/fdfAk9Ch
17:03 < Ginto8> ok
17:03 < nsf> but works on my machine fine
17:03 < nsf> also note it requires 'master' branch of Go-SDL
17:03 < nsf> it uses GL_SetAttribute for setting vsync
17:04 < wrtp> skelterjohn: try goinstall -u
17:04 < nsf> other than that it's fine to run it on a release branch
17:04 < wrtp> skelterjohn: you need to make clean in goinstalled packages
after updating
17:04 < wrtp> it's a pain
17:04 < skelterjohn> alright
17:04 < wrtp> goinstall -u should do it though
17:05 < wrtp> i wish that all.bash rebuilt goinstalled packages too
17:05 < Ginto8> nsf, how do you use GL_SetAttribute for setting vsync?
17:05 < skelterjohn> back to the error from before
17:05 < wrtp> thought so
17:05 < nsf> Ginto8: sdl.GL_SetAttribute(sdl.GL_SWAP_CONTROL, 1)
17:05 < wrtp> it comes down to the contents of your .Xauthority file
17:06 < nsf> it enables vsync if it's possible
17:06 < wrtp> what do you get from od -xc $HOME/.Xauthority?
17:06 < Ginto8> that's deprecated
17:07 < nsf> is it?
17:07 < skelterjohn> weird stuff...  http://pastebin.com/xkMVjKJy
17:07 < Ginto8> anyway if you have a good framerate (~60 or more fps), which
any simple thing should easily get, it's not really noticable
17:07 < skelterjohn> i did an xhost + just in case
17:07 < nsf> Ginto8: that's not the point
17:07 < Ginto8> nsf: according to http://sdl.beuc.net/sdl.wiki/SDL_GLattr
it's been deprecated since 1.3.0
17:07 < Ginto8> ok w/e I'll get it
17:07 < nsf> if your game is super simple you need to constrain the main
loop to somewhat 60 hz
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17:08 < nsf> using vsync is the one way to do that :)
17:08 < skelterjohn> nsf: why?
17:08 < wrtp> skelterjohn: strange, that looks just fine
17:08 < Ginto8> nsf: or timers
17:08 < nsf> skelterjohn: hammering CPU on a simple game is just a waste of
power :)
17:08 < nsf> you don't need tetris running on 9000 fps
17:08 < nsf> :D
17:09 < jer> you don't?
17:09 < jer> =]
17:09 < Ginto8> nsf: you could have a goroutine doing the actual graphics at
a much higher speed with the actual game logic running at 60 fps
17:09 < wrtp> skelterjohn: could you edit
$GOROOT/src/pkg/rog-go*/hg/x11/auth.go
17:09 < skelterjohn> sure
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17:09 < nsf> well, maybe, but I don't need that
17:09 < nsf> it's just tetris )
17:09 < skelterjohn> got it open
17:10 < wrtp> search for "MAGIC" and change os.NewError("unsupported Xauth"
) to os.NewError(fmt.Sprintf("unsupported Xauth %#v %#v", key, value))
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17:10 < wrtp> you'll need to add "fmt" to the imports at the start too
17:10 < skelterjohn> no MAGIC
17:11 < nsf> Ginto8: so, does tetris work?
17:11 < wrtp> sorry, wrong file!  i meant
$GOROOT/src/pkg/rog-go*/hg/x11/conn.go
17:11 < Ginto8> sorry I'm a bit too tired to figure out git right now
17:11 < nsf> I can give you the right commands if you want
17:11 < Ginto8> I'll test it another time though, definitely
17:12 < nsf> :)
17:12 < Ginto8> sure that would be helpful
17:12 < skelterjohn> wrtp: if i run "goinstall stuff/x11" will it compile
the edited source without downloading new?
17:13 < skelterjohn> wrtp: unsupported Xauth `` ``
17:13 < skelterjohn> heh
17:13 < skelterjohn> helpful, eh?
17:13 < skelterjohn> (brb)
17:14 < wrtp> skelterjohn: you're better just running make install in the
directory
17:14 < wrtp> hmm.
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17:21 < skelterjohn> (back)
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17:25 < wrtp> geeze, i can't see how it works even with my own xauthority
file
17:25 < wrtp> binary formats suck
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17:26 < skelterjohn> agreed.
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17:30 < wrtp> skelterjohn: could you paste the results of od -t x1 -c
$h/.Xauthority
17:30 < wrtp> just to save my little/big-endian confusion!
17:31 < wrtp> by $h i meant $HOME
17:31 < Ginto8> lol
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17:31 < skelterjohn> wrtp: http://pastebin.com/AfEReW6b
17:31 < Ginto8> little/big endian is really crazy
17:31 < skelterjohn> this computer is little endian
17:32 < Ginto8> tho if he has an x86 machine I'm pretty sure theyre little
endian
17:32 < skelterjohn> i am absolutely sure - i have dealt with big/little
endianness in go fairly recently
17:32 < wrtp> the file format is big endian
17:32 < wrtp> that's not the issue here
17:32 < wrtp> the issue is me counting bytes :-)
17:33 < skelterjohn> whose idea was it to say "hey, these guys are doing X
endian...let's do Y endian!"
17:33 < skelterjohn> whoever was the first person to do that should be shot
17:33 < wrtp> it doesn't matter too much
17:33 < wrtp> although it'd be great if everyone always used the same
endianness...
17:33 < skelterjohn> exactly
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17:36 < wrtp> bugger, your .Xauthority file looks just fine
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17:38 < wrtp> ah, i start to see the problem
17:41 < wrtp> skelterjohn: try replacing the whole readAuth function in
conn.go with this version: http://pastebin.com/rBKG9jy4
17:42 < wrtp> that at least causes the correct error to be returned
17:43 < skelterjohn> error is EOF
17:44 < wrtp> ah, that's a bit better :-)
17:45 < wrtp> skelterjohn: i think you should create an issue, and attach a
copy of your .Xauthority file
17:45 < wrtp> i've got to go now
17:45 < skelterjohn> sure, no prob
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18:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cXWlD by [Roger Peppe] in
go/src/cmd/goinstall/ -- goinstall: process dependencies for package main
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18:41 < drhodes> does anyone know a way to programmatically get a list of
identifiers in the global namespace?  If not, something like python's __file__
variable would be handy for people willing to parse the executable.
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18:49 < skelterjohn> drhodes: if there is a way, and i doubt there is (but i
don't know), then it will be in the reflect package
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19:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cY2WO by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/ -- spec: struct
tags must be identical for types to be identical
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20:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cY43x by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- pkg/Makefile: allow DISABLE_NET_TESTS=1 to disable network tests
20:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cY43C by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gc/ -- gc:
include struct field tags in type equality
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20:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cY574 by [Russ Cox] in 5 subdirs of go/ --
reflect: add Type.Bits method, add tags to prohibit conversions
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20:33 < drhodes> skelterjohn: I found that there is such a package:
"debug/gosym": "implements access to the Go symbol and line number tables embedded
in Go binaries generated by the gc compilers."
20:33 < skelterjohn> cool
20:33 < nsf> drhodes: and it's not portable by definition
20:33 < drhodes> portable shmortable
20:34 < nsf> :D
20:34 < nsf> well in python __file__ is a part of spec
20:34 < nsf> in Go it isn't
20:34 < nsf> but you can use whatever you want if it suits your needs
20:34 < Soultaker> any particular reason why Go can't just use (e.g.) dwarf
or stabs sections for debug data?
20:36 < nsf> you can even generate that kind of data by yourself, Go is easy
to parse (and there is a parser in a standard library)
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20:52 < Ginto8> bool assignments/reads are atomic right?
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20:53 < napsy> there's no such information in the specs
20:53 < napsy> I suppose no
20:54 < Ginto8> well it doesn't mention anything about atomic operations in
general
20:54 < jessta> Ginto8: it's all in the memory model
20:55 < jessta> ...which seems to have disappeared from the site
20:55 < Ginto8> yeah I was about to mention that
20:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cY7e1 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syslog/ --
syslog: use local network for tests
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20:55 < Ginto8> ok found it sorta
20:55 < Ginto8> http://golang.org/doc/go_mem.html
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21:01 < jessta> Ginto8: it would be atomic for one CPU, but I doubt they'd
use a CAS for all bool assignments
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21:40 < mpl> damn, I still get bitten, using := where I shouldn't because I
cp pasted :/
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22:12 < skelterjohn> mpl: bitten by what - a compile error?
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22:20 < jessta> skelterjohn: I think mpl is refering to the variable
shaddowing issue
22:21 < skelterjohn> yeah, i figured.  i think it shouldn't be allowed
either
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22:24 < skelterjohn> or rather, i think it's something that is worth a
warning, and the go team makes a good case for not allowing warnings
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22:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cYd3q by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/
-- release.2010-06-21
22:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cYd3w by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ --
release.2010-06-21 tag
22:28 < napsy> cool a new release
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23:07 < mpl> skelterjohn: sorry was busy.  yeah bitten I used it in a place
where it was totally legal, but because of the same var name in another scope it
didn't do at all what I wanted to do.
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23:09 < mpl> otoh, I don't see any way how the language could protect us
from that kind of mistake, except by removing :=
23:09 < mpl> I guess I could simply not use it anymore, I have the choice
after all.
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23:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cYhHr by [Russ Cox] in go/test/fixedbugs/ --
test: another listen on ":0" -> "127.0.0.1:0"
23:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cYhHx by [Christopher Wedgwood] in
go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: Fix ICMP test.
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--- Log closed Tue Jun 22 00:00:12 2010