--- Log opened Fri Jul 02 00:00:12 2010
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00:40 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dc0PH by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/
-- release.2010-07-01
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00:51 < nsf> 2010-07-01 release rocks..  includes fixed scheduler and cgo
generating relative paths for shared objects ('cgo_termbox.so =>
/home/nsf/go/pkg/linux_386/cgo_termbox.so (0xb7769000)')
00:51 < nsf> :P
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00:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dc1Mu by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ --
release.2010-07-01 tag
00:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dc1MH by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- implications of len spec change
00:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dc1N2 by [Russ Cox] in go/doc/ -- spec:
restrict when len(x) is constant
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01:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dc38k by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc:
implement new len spec, range bug fix, optimization
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02:53 < nf> nsf: ;)
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03:52 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dcbxq by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ -- Add
various items to the Go Resources page.
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04:50 < Project_2501> goooooooooooooooooooooooooodmorning!
04:53 < jer> not yet, call back in 8 hours =]
04:54 < Project_2501> 6:58am here
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04:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dceMC by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/ld/ -- ld:
fix handling of "".  names in #pragma dynimport/dynexport
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04:58 < jessta> jer: not that again
04:58 < jer> jessta, ?
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05:00 < jessta> jer: http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
05:01 < Project_2501> lol
05:01 * jer rejects your reality
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05:01 < Project_2501> jer, so....  you don't use that slice of reality?
05:01 < Project_2501> o.o
05:02 < jessta> I found $7.20 in my washing machine
05:02 * Project_2501 sells the slice of reality rejected by jer
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05:56 < nsf> jessta: lol, ugt actually makes sense
05:57 < nsf> you often turn on your PC when you wake up, and turn off when
you go to bed..  so it's kind of symmetrical to a morning and evening indeed :D
05:57 < nsf> never though about it this way :D
05:58 < jer> yeah true
05:58 < jer> 2:01AM up 32 days, 18:56, 2 users, load averages: 0.00, 0.02,
0.00
05:58 < jer> i should sleep soon
05:58 < jer> =D
05:58 < nsf> unless of course you sleep all day long and work at night
05:58 < nsf> like I do :D
05:58 * jer was referring to the 32 day uptime on my laptop
05:59 < nsf> ah..
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06:04 < nsf> this timezones thing confuses actually a lot
06:04 < nsf> I recently added time from different timezones to my conky
06:04 < nsf> it helps..
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08:19 < mlip> hej, quick question: is there any chance that a go interface
to disable the GC (something like DisableGC()) will get accepted if I submit a
changeset?
08:29 < jessta> mlip: you can disable the GC at compile time, or do you plan
to EnableGC() at a later time in the program?
08:31 < mlip> jessta: at compile time you mean?  I just found
runtime.mstats.enablegc (which is not exported for obvious reasons)
08:34 < mlip> Is there a flag for 6g/6l that enables disables GC linking ?
08:34 < jessta> oh oops, I thought there was
08:35 < mlip> I am trying to disable the GC to test some other memory
management approaches (which i think Go is good for); currently i have altered the
runtime package
08:36 < mlip> and with new releases coming up every few days ...  in short:
merging sucks
08:36 < jer> regions?
08:36 < mlip> jer: can't tell so far ;/
08:36 < jer> ah
08:37 < jessta> I'm sure I saw something about disabling the GC
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08:38 < mlip> nothing on the ml, despite my previous (2 days ago) post about
the memmgr
08:40 < mlip> i was just wondering if additions to runtime (which obviously
is a core package) have any chance to get accepted
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10:50 < mduft> hey :)
10:51 < mduft> i just found out about go a few days ago.  today i had time
to take a closer look at it, and it looks very promosing.
10:51 < mduft> now i have a question:
10:52 < mduft> i'm writing (one or more :)) hobby-kernels for ia32 and ia32e
(amd64).  how much work would it be, to make get go code to run on "bare metal"?
10:53 < mduft> i know i'd have to put _some_ things into place for this to
happen (malloc, threads, ...), but what exactly are the system dependencies of the
runtime?
10:53 < mduft> (i'll stay around, just answer, i'll read it later ;))
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11:10 < jessta> mduft: there is such a thing
11:11 < mduft> jessta, really?
11:11 < mduft> where can i find more information on it?
11:11 < mduft> that would be extremely cool
11:11 < jessta> I think it's the "tiny" target
11:12 < mduft> oh, cool, thanks for the hint
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11:13 < jessta> mduft: http://golang.org/pkg/runtime/tiny/
11:15 < mduft> thanks
11:17 < mduft> wow - not much to do i'd say.  and most of it can be
implemented in go itself, if i see it correctly...
11:18 < jessta> mduft: http://golang.org/src/pkg/runtime/tiny/
11:18 < jessta> that's probably better
11:18 < mduft> yeah, tanks - reading there already ;)
11:18 < jessta> wonderful
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11:19 < mduft> uh - this looks like it could be fun :)
11:22 < jessta> go is so much fun
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11:29 < mduft> jessta, just need to get things into my head - right now i'm
using writing all of shell scripts, makefiles, c/c++, java, python, etc.  go is
pretty much different than all of those :)
11:31 < jessta> it's very C
11:31 < mduft> yeah, just upside down..  at least at a first glance...
11:31 < jessta> it's the C I always tried to make using macros
11:31 < mduft> hehe
11:31 < jessta> upside down?
11:32 < mduft> it's hard to read, but one is getting used to it very fast.
11:32 < jessta> oh, the syntax yeah
11:32 < jessta> the types etc.?
11:32 < mduft> yeah
11:32 < jessta> I like it much more
11:32 < jessta> it reads better
11:32 < mduft> i'm a little confused about when to use pointers and when not
in method declarations....
11:33 < jessta> imagine them as a function
11:33 < jessta> with the object as the first parameter
11:33 < mduft> in that techtalk from oct 09 i saw some examples.  one of
then declared it with a pointer, the other without.  does that mean that the
method only applies if i have a pointer (or a plain object respectively)?
11:33 < mduft> ok
11:34 < taruti> Having a richer strong type system would be nice from time
to time
11:34 < mduft> so if i do func (obj *MyObj) Blah() i can call it only on a
*MyObj, but not on a MyObj?
11:34 < jessta> yep
11:34 < mduft> ok
11:34 < mduft> fine
11:35 < mduft> at least consistent ;)
11:35 < jessta> but if you have (obj MyObj)Blash() you can call it on a
MyOBj or a *myObj
11:35 < mduft> uh :)
11:35 < mduft> do i need to do &myObj.Blah()?
11:36 < mduft> err..
11:36 < mduft> *myObj.Blah()
11:36 < mduft> (sorry, still a little confused - first contact was -1:30)
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11:36 < jessta> yeah
11:36 < jessta> it will do the reference for you
11:37 < mduft> ok
11:37 < jessta> just a bit of sugar
11:37 < jessta> if you want to be able to modify the object use a pointer
11:39 < vrtical> There's one quibble with pointer methods, which I'm not
sure I can explain clearly.  Pointer-taking and non-pointer-taking methods seem
very interchangeable, but they don't seem to satisfy the same interfaces.
11:40 < vrtical> In fact...  methods named as part of an interface _have to_
receive a pointer???  Can someone help me out here?
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11:41 < jessta> vrtical: I don't think they do
11:42 < jessta> they just need to be all defined on the same type.
11:43 < vrtical> so type foo interface { Bar() } << either every Bar()
has to receive a pointer, or every Bar has to not receive a pointer?
11:44 < jessta> nah, the type just has to implement Bar()
11:45 < jessta> so func (T)Bar(){} and func (*T)Bar(){}
11:45 < jessta> both T and *T statisfy foo
11:48 < vrtical> ok, the error message I'm thinking of must have been some
other error.  Sorry for the noise.
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11:54 < jessta> vrtical: infact as long as there is a func (T)Bar(), then
both T and *T statisfy foo
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12:46 < mduft> err...
12:46 < mduft> question
12:46 < mduft> im trying to build the compilers/libraries, and i get this:
12:46 < mduft> make[2]: Leaving directory
`/big/Privat/go/go-repo/src/pkg/http'
12:46 < mduft> --- FAIL: http.TestClient
12:46 < mduft> Get http://www.google.com/robots.txt: dial tcp
74.125.39.106:80: connection refused
12:46 < mduft> (i'm behind a proxy)
12:46 < mduft> (and at home there will be no connection at all for the
moment)
12:47 < mduft> any hints?
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12:57 < chressie> mduft: running ./make.bash instead of ./all.bash should
work
12:59 < chressie> this skips the test suite
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13:02 < mduft> ok
13:02 < mduft> thanks
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13:03 < chressie> np
13:03 < mduft> any chance to get all the docs offline?
13:03 < mduft> i need them at home...
13:04 < mduft> i tried mirroring the golang.org site using wget, but the
result is only garbage...?
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13:06 < chressie> if you installed go correctly, you can use 'godoc
-http=:6060' to serve 'a copy' of golang.org on localhost:6060
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13:07 < chressie> see http://golang.org/cmd/godoc/
13:07 < mduft> owh...  cool :)
13:07 < chressie> for things you can do with godoc
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13:09 < mduft> heh - i really like how this project minimizes dependencies
to the "outside world": there are nearly none.
13:09 < mduft> this is ideal for trying to write a kernel using go.
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13:35 < vrtical> By the way guys, does anyone know why the plan 9 C compiler
is bundled with go?  I don't object, I'm just curious what if anything uses it.
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13:36 < nimmen> maybe they are building something in plan 9 =]
13:37 < quintile> ken thompson wrote the plan9 c compilers (I am a plan9 guy
and just looking at go again).
13:37 < nsf> vrtical: because the go compiler is written in plan9 C?
13:38 < quintile> it has the advantage in being small, clean, and very fast
(to compile code).
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13:38 < vrtical> nsf: I thought Go builds with gcc.
13:39 < nsf> I don't think so
13:39 < quintile> there is also a front end to gcc that produces go
executables and (I think, correct me if I am wrong) produces more optimised and
faster running ones than 6c/6l.
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13:40 < nimmen> i dont know about faster
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13:42 < vrtical> nsf: here on linux-amd64 at least, go is being compiled
with gcc
13:42 < quintile> gcc compiles more slowly but produces faster executables
(I thought), and also gcc is the basis for the windows port as 6c has no back end
for win32.  (please don't quote me I am very much a go newbie, but this is my
understanding).
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13:43 < quintile> [reading robs stanford presentation - he says 6c is ~5
times faster than gcc...]
13:44 < nsf> vrtical: yes, the compiler itself builds using gcc, but the
runtime (which contains C code) is being built using 8c
13:44 < nsf> or 6c
13:44 < nimmen> quintile: you might be right about windows port
13:44 < nsf> because it needs to be linked together with Go code
13:45 < nsf> using 8l/6l linker
13:45 < vrtical> nsf: I see, thank you.
13:45 < nsf> and gcc can't produce code for that linker
13:46 < nsf> so, you can actually write libraries for Go using plan9 C
compiler and avoid using cgo :)
13:48 < vrtical> That's what got me wondering about this in the first place!
When I saw that there was a 6c, which compiled C code to .6 files (albeit seeming
not to have access to standard headers), I thought it likely that 6l could link
together C and go code.
13:48 < nsf> cgo tool uses 6c too
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13:53 < vrtical> So what exactly does cgo do?  The official documentation
appears to be non-existent, can someone point me to some documentation or talk me
through it a little?
13:54 < nsf> it does magic :)
13:55 < vrtical> Seriously, it looks at a go program that has a pretend
'import "C"' statement, and it generates a bunch of files, apparently.
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13:55 < vrtical> Though what it seems to do in practice is say "gcc produced
no output" :-)
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13:58 < vrtical> The example files in go/misc/cgo seem to use magic in the
distribution makefiles to abstract out what cgo does - they don't say import "C",
they say things like import "stdio"
13:58 < nsf> vrtical: well, it glues C code with Go
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14:06 < jessta> vrtical: the hello programm in go/misc/cgo imports the stdio
package.  which is made up of the other .go files in that directory
14:08 < vrtical> doh.
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14:31 < vrtical> woo, I have compiled a trivial cgo program!  (wrapping
putchar).  The stuff in the docs directory makes more sense now, though I still
think some documentation would be nice.  Thanks guys.
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17:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dcT4V by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- crypto/tls, http: Make HTTPS servers easier.
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19:24 < Eko> Okay, I have a really fun question for the group
19:25 < Eko> I am working on a sudoku solver in Go, and each cell in the
sudoku has a pair of goroutines, one managing the data one managing the algorithm
19:25 < ender2070> Any killer apps in Go yet?
19:25 < Eko> When it completes the last square, there is a channel send/recv
pair that have the same channel ID, but don't complete
19:26 < Eko> 1 DEBUG - 7,2 sudoku.CellCommand{typ:"elim", arg:2, ret:(chan
bool)(0xb75fc980), res:(chan int)(nil)} A
19:26 < Eko> 1 DEBUG - 7,2 sudoku.CellCommand{typ:"elim", arg:2, ret:(chan
bool)(0xb75fc980), res:(chan int)(nil)} B
19:27 < Eko> just notice that the ret channels are identical
19:27 < Eko> the first one is printed right before the channel send attempt,
the second is printed right before the channel receive attempt
19:27 < Eko> what would make it not complete?
19:28 < ender2070> Eko - show someone the code in a pastebin
19:31 < Eko> http://gist.github.com/461811
19:32 < Eko> the two lines I pasted above are the only ones that don't have
a pair (e.g.  the send command receive result didn't complete)
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20:11 < Eko> !gopkg flag
20:11 < GoBIR> Eko: Package flag - http://golang.org/pkg/flag
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20:16 < Eko> okay, I made a test case for this that doesn't have all of the
other crap
20:16 < Eko> http://gist.github.com/461811
20:16 < Eko> Is there something wrong with that code?
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20:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dd6De by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- http, crypto/tls: followup fixes from 1684051.
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--- Log closed Sat Jul 03 00:00:12 2010