--- Log opened Mon Jul 26 00:00:05 2010 00:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dIkfI by [Alex Brainman] in go/src/ -- fix windows Make.cmd: 00:09 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@wsip-70-167-73-39.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:25 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 00:29 < tensorpudding> ...the hell 00:30 < tensorpudding> is rand's random number generator seeded with the same value every time? 00:32 < KirkMcDonald> tensorpudding: Source suggests as such. 00:32 < tensorpudding> is that normal? 00:33 < exch> the global rand instance is initialized with 1 00:33 -!- Wiz126 [~Wiz126@24.229.245.72.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33 < exch> You can create your own instance with any seed you need 00:33 < tensorpudding> I want a seed which is different every time. 00:33 < KirkMcDonald> Or just pass something to Seed(). 00:34 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@wsip-70-167-73-39.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:34 < KirkMcDonald> tensorpudding: rand.Seed(time.Nanoseconds()0 00:34 < KirkMcDonald> s/0/)/ 00:34 < tensorpudding> I think it's rather odd that it doesn't harvest any entropy from /dev/random 00:35 < tensorpudding> That was my impression of what other random-number generators did. 00:35 < KirkMcDonald> It would not be difficult to pull some bytes out of there and use them as a seed. 00:36 < tensorpudding> But why does the default implementation of rand not use a true random seed? 00:36 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dIojj by [Alex Brainman] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- syscall: improve windows errno handling 00:37 < exch> That's best answered by whomever wrote it 00:40 -!- marsu [~marsu@192.101.202-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40 -!- Wiz126 [~Wiz126@24.229.245.72.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:42 < vrtical> classic rand is deterministic (if you give it the same seed each time), which might be handy for debugging/testing purposes. 00:46 < vrtical> (the irony of determinism being a selling point for randomness isn't lost on me, but you get the point) 00:48 < KirkMcDonald> It can also be useful for games. 00:48 < KirkMcDonald> The ability to save a game, and have the random number seed continue from where it left off... 00:48 < exch> Or replaying captured demos 00:50 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 00:51 -!- allengeorge [~allengeor@74.12.150.7] has quit [Quit: allengeorge] 00:58 -!- allengeorge [~allengeor@74.12.150.7] has joined #go-nuts 00:59 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@58.61.207.249] has joined #go-nuts 01:00 -!- samferry [sam@atheme/member/samferry] has joined #go-nuts 01:01 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.107.200.13] has joined #go-nuts 01:02 -!- Xenith [~xenith@xenith-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:04 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.107.128.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.107.178.3] has joined #go-nuts 01:06 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.107.200.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 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02:54 -!- ClarkG [~clark@dsl-173-248-210-214.acanac.net] has left #go-nuts [] 02:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dIFYz by [Alex Brainman] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: fix crashing Read/Write when passed empty slice on windows 03:04 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:09 -!- allengeorge [~allengeor@74.12.150.7] has quit [Quit: allengeorge] 03:16 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:16 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #go-nuts 03:20 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.247.41.202] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 03:20 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 03:23 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.247.41.202] has joined #go-nuts 03:25 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.247.41.202] has left #go-nuts [] 03:26 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:49 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:53 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts 03:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dINJb by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- A+C: Wei Guangjing 04:20 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has quit [Quit: tumdum] 04:23 -!- dabuckle [~david.buc@c-24-62-111-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:24 -!- dabuckle [~david.buc@c-24-62-111-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts [] 04:24 -!- mafs [~maikeru@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:25 -!- mafs [~maikeru@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has joined #go-nuts 04:25 -!- htoothrot [~mux@71-8-117-228.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:28 -!- htoothrot [~mux@71-8-117-228.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:35 -!- wobsite [~wobsite@68-112-244-225.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:45 -!- cmarcelo [~cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has joined #go-nuts 04:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dIUT8 by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/cmd/prof/ -- prof: fix typo in usage string 04:59 -!- ender2070 [~ender2070@bas22-toronto12-2925103372.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #go-nuts 05:02 -!- jdp [~gu@24.238.32.162.res-cmts.segr.ptd.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:03 -!- ender2070 [~ender2070@bas22-toronto12-2925103372.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:03 -!- scm [justme@d070253.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05 -!- scm [justme@d019242.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 05:21 -!- Sacho [~sacho@79-100-169-151.btc-net.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22 -!- gNostic [~gNostic@ZYMYCDXCV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has left #go-nuts ["Lähdössä"] 05:49 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 06:00 -!- rsaarelm [~rsaarelm@cs181128175.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dJ1j9 by [Wei Guangjing] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: add windows version of Pipe() 06:06 -!- tvw 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07:32 -!- sahid [~sahid@LNeuilly-152-21-22-10.w193-253.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 07:33 -!- Xenith [~xenith@xenith-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:37 -!- mikespook1 [~mikespook@219.137.75.31] has joined #go-nuts 07:37 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@58.61.207.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:43 -!- Xenith [~xenith@xenith-2-pt.tunnel.tserv3.fmt2.ipv6.he.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:45 < nsf> two things on a todo list! 07:45 < nsf> local packages and honest package cache 07:45 < nsf> and I'm done 07:53 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@89-160-159-69.du.xdsl.is] has joined #go-nuts 07:53 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@89-160-159-69.du.xdsl.is] has quit [Changing host] 07:53 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 07:53 -!- path[l] [UPP@120.138.102.50] has quit [Quit: path[l]] 07:56 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.154.117] has joined #go-nuts 08:00 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has quit [Remote host closed the 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Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:59 < DavidJones> I think there's a couple of really awesome discussions going on in the ml 11:59 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@2001:41b8:9bf:fe75:223:14ff:fe24:4fa8] has joined #go-nuts 12:00 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@2001:41b8:9bf:fe75:223:14ff:fe24:4fa8] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02 -!- astrojp [~echoprint@unaffiliated/astrojp] has joined #go-nuts 12:03 -!- dbs [~dbs@pdpc/supporter/active/dbs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04 < jessta> DavidJones: which ones? 12:04 < jessta> the one about turning Go in to lisp? 12:04 < DavidJones> nah 12:04 < DavidJones> not that one lol 12:05 < jessta> it's both horrifying and kind of funny 12:05 < DavidJones> for lisp, we have lisp/XL; for go, we have go :D 12:08 < DavidJones> well it's kind of interesting, but the discussion is rather pointless 12:10 < jessta> meta-programming bothers me, the times when you need it are rare but people abuse it because it's 'cool' 12:11 < exch> what bothers me about that whole thread is the guy's apparent view that go is fundamentally flawed and he'll come to save us all. 12:11 < exch> It's arrogant and shortsighted 12:13 < DavidJones> jessta, meta programming is awesome, but it doesn't feel good for go. 12:16 < DavidJones> exch, dunno. I just think he really wants to use these features, and he really wants to use go, but doesn't see that adding the features will turn go into something different. 12:17 < exch> There's nothing stopping him from turning his thing into a scripting language and embedding it in go :p Then he can have both 12:17 < exch> worked for me and my postscript fetish 12:18 < jessta> after a lovely few months writing go, I now have to find employment. so I 12:18 < jessta> I'm relearning php 12:19 < exch> employment is vastly overrated ;) 12:19 -!- MizardX [~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19 -!- MizardX [~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx] has joined #go-nuts 12:20 < jessta> yeah, but I studied for 3 years and now the government has stopped giving me free money 12:20 < exch> ah bummer 12:21 -!- Sbioko [~sbioko@62.182.81.168] has left #go-nuts [] 12:23 < DavidJones> I was thinking of the UI conversations though 12:23 < DavidJones> as well as dynamically linking 12:25 < DavidJones> I think I'm longing for a very good IPC instead of linking, though 12:26 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:27 -!- dbs [~dbs@pdpc/supporter/active/dbs] has joined #go-nuts 12:28 < wrtp> DavidJones: it's difficult to have very good IPC without copying everything, unless you share memory, and if you share memory you have to agree on what shape (i.e. type) the contents of that memory are, which implies some kind of linking, i think 12:29 < DavidJones> T_T 12:29 < wrtp> ? 12:29 * DavidJones cries 12:30 * wrtp doesn't think the problem is *that* hard 12:31 < DavidJones> I'm wondering, is it a good idea to have the data only once? 12:31 < DavidJones> I think it's not actually a good idea 12:32 < DavidJones> because it might result in ugly racing conditions, and I might not know what is modifying the data 12:33 < DavidJones> the only way to ensure something like "shared" memory would work, is by having an intelligent database 12:34 < wrtp> http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/893314cde7a76e4f 12:34 < wrtp> there's no more problem than there is now, with shared memory between goroutines 12:34 < DavidJones> on the other hand, copying everything creates a huge overhead 12:35 < wrtp> even using virtual memory to map pages between processes creates a big overhead 12:35 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@94.171.244.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36 < DavidJones> you're right 12:41 < TheSeeker> Is it feasible to try and port a client/server written in Java to Go? or should it just be re-written from the ground-up? 12:42 < DavidJones> usually you'd want to rewrite, because you can't really port Java to go 12:42 < bartbes> porting usually results in bad code anyway 12:42 -!- XenoPhoenix [~Xeno@94.171.244.40] has joined #go-nuts 12:44 -!- Sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has joined #go-nuts 12:44 < DavidJones> wrtp, that is about dynamically loading go modules 12:45 < DavidJones> but what I'm thinking of is also communicating with Java, ruby, C, Cpp, etc processes 12:49 -!- roop [~roop@122.167.235.133] has joined #go-nuts 12:52 -!- crashR [~crasher@codextreme.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:53 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts 12:54 < nsf> we need a Go compiler written in Go :) 12:55 < nsf> that way it will be possible to compile on the fly dynamically loaded modules in the form of the source code 12:55 < nsf> but I guess that's a lot of work 12:57 < DavidJones> you think it would work because go compiles fast enough? 12:57 < nsf> it compiles very fast 12:57 < DavidJones> hehe I'm thinking of a C compile "on the fly" 12:58 < DavidJones> Please stand by... 12:58 < nsf> have you seen tiny c compiler? :) 12:58 < DavidJones> not yet : ) 12:58 < nsf> it actually has a library that can compile code on the fly and execute it 12:59 < nsf> and it compiles extremely fast 12:59 < DavidJones> hmh... I assume that it is a minimalistic compiler similar to the go compiler. 12:59 < nsf> but in go it will be harder 12:59 < nsf> because there is a runtime 12:59 < nsf> and you need to manage integration to that runtime 12:59 < nsf> someho 12:59 < nsf> somehow* 13:00 < DavidJones> anyhow, I really don't want dynamical loading of code right now, I want to be able to talk to other processes in other languages 13:00 < nsf> tiny c compiler, yes.. it is minimalistic 13:00 < nsf> written by one person :) 13:00 < nsf> DavidJones: protobuf? 13:01 < nsf> well, protobuf is not exactly and IPC protocol, but more like RPC protocol 13:01 < nsf> but it will work 13:02 < nsf> s/and/an/g 13:02 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:03 < DavidJones> currently looking at it 13:03 < jessta> DavidJones: plenty of ways to communicate to other processes; sockets, pipes, etc. 13:05 < nsf> DavidJones: or you can try to implement gob protocol in C 13:06 < DavidJones> nsf well, I cannot 13:06 < DavidJones> ; ) 13:09 < nsf> it is relatively easy task 13:09 < nsf> and boring 13:10 < DavidJones> I never learned C. I'll do that when I have the time though. 13:14 < DavidJones> yeah, the gob protocol looks interesting. 13:18 -!- cmarcelo [~cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has quit [Quit: tumdum] 13:20 < DavidJones> jessta, I know, but it there is no common protocol to talk about complex structures 13:21 < nsf> also there are slow things 13:21 < nsf> like json 13:21 < nsf> and xml 13:21 < Tonnerre> And even slower things, like XML over JSON 13:21 < nsf> :D 13:21 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:21 -!- cmarcelo [~cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has joined #go-nuts 13:22 < Tonnerre> I once had to simply put name -> hashtable with values pairs into a BerkeleyDB 13:22 < DavidJones> pipes are one way only, named pipes are interesting but still lack those abilities, not to talk about what these nice pals said : D 13:22 < Tonnerre> I asked the Python fans for a nice way to serialize their hashes 13:22 < Tonnerre> They suggested JSON 13:22 < Tonnerre> That was when I went ahead and built something quickly with XDR 13:22 < nsf> I think python's pickle is faster than json by many times 13:23 < nsf> especially cPickle 13:23 < Tonnerre> My XDR solution worked too 13:25 < nsf> also xml is not necessary slow, I don't know about json parser implementation, but I know about one XML implementation: http://code.google.com/p/pugixml/ 13:25 < nsf> and it is very fast 13:25 < Tonnerre> Not as fast as XDR 13:25 < nsf> Tonnerre: XDR is a binary format isn't it? 13:26 < Tonnerre> Sure 13:30 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 13:32 < wrtp> nsf: i'm not sure how an on-the-fly compiler helps with dynamic loading, apart from, perhaps verifiability 13:34 -!- cmarcelo [~cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:34 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.155.4] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- saulhoward [~saulhowar@ppp-115-87-203-7.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:37 -!- melter [~Melter@2001:4930:116:0:21c:c0ff:feef:eaf5] has joined #go-nuts 13:40 < DavidJones> too late wrtp 13:41 -!- cmarcelo [~cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has joined #go-nuts 13:42 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.107.178.3] has joined #go-nuts 13:44 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 13:44 < wrtp> oh yeah 13:45 < wrtp> i'm off and on here today... 13:45 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.107.178.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:48 -!- saulhoward [~saulhowar@ppp-58-8-162-37.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #go-nuts 14:00 -!- kanru1 [~kanru@118-160-160-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:01 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08 -!- roop [~roop@122.167.235.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:17 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has joined #go-nuts 14:17 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has quit [Changing host] 14:17 -!- b0r3d [~m@unaffiliated/b0r3d] has joined #go-nuts 14:19 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@atx118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #go-nuts 14:19 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@atx118.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Changing host] 14:19 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts 14:21 -!- kanru1 [~kanru@118-160-160-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:21 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:24 -!- b0r3d [~m@unaffiliated/b0r3d] has quit [] 14:25 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@adsl-75-61-119-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Quit: path[l]] 14:32 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has joined #go-nuts 14:33 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 14:35 -!- dbs [~dbs@pdpc/supporter/active/dbs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:36 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@1x-193-157-193-186.uio.no] has joined #go-nuts 14:41 -!- psusi [hidden-use@iriserv.iradimed.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:42 < psusi> I have a question about the leaky buffer example shown in effective go. why does this line not block: b, ok := <-freeList 14:43 < psusi> for that matter, how is it able to read two values from a channel that only has one? 14:43 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@x1-6-00-0e-2e-a3-e0-23.k377.webspeed.dk] has joined #go-nuts 14:47 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.107.178.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:48 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50 < bjarneh> psusi: see the comment field, this is how you do a non-blocking read from a channel i think.. 14:50 < vrtical> psusi: that is the syntax for a non-blocking read. The compiler reads it and emits code that does it. 14:50 < psusi> comment field? 14:50 < vrtical> (the 'ok' isn't coming from the channel) 14:51 < psusi> ohh... so the <- operator has two overloads, one that returns the channel value, and one that returns the channel value, and a bool indicating whether it actually read from the channel or not? 14:51 < bjarneh> psusi: after the // in the code.. 14:51 < bjarneh> psusi: yes 14:51 < psusi> interesting... 14:53 < psusi> and this line: _ = freeList <- b... the <- operator has two overloads as well? and the void overload is used when the result is not assigned, and it blocks... but this assignment causes the non blocking overload to be used? 14:54 -!- saulhoward [~saulhowar@ppp-58-8-162-37.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57 -!- dbs [~dbs@pdpc/supporter/active/dbs] has joined #go-nuts 14:58 -!- gastal [~jgastal@187.75.148.141] has joined #go-nuts 15:01 < psusi> also what are the empty parens doing on the highlighted line after the function body in this example: http://pastebin.com/aDvASb0y 15:02 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@adsl-75-61-119-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:03 < vrtical> psusi: calling the function. 15:03 -!- nomo [~nomo@mobile-166-137-137-172.mycingular.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:03 < wrtp> psusi: the argument to defer is always a function call, not a function value 15:03 < vrtical> if the function was defined elsewhere as foo, you'd write defere foo() wouldn't you. 15:04 < psusi> ohh... I suppose that makes sense... just looked odd 15:07 -!- napsy_ [~napsy@193.2.66.101] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:08 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Quit: .] 15:09 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 15:10 -!- saulhoward [~saulhowar@ppp-58-8-128-128.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #go-nuts 15:14 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d7b3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-160-160-73.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:18 -!- cmarcelo [~cmarcelo@enlightenment/developer/cmarcelo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26 -!- iant [~iant@62-20-124-50.customer.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:30 -!- g0bl1n [~pr0kter@188.140.66.226] has joined #go-nuts 15:31 -!- g0bl1n_ [~pr0kter@188.140.66.226] has joined #go-nuts 15:31 -!- g0bl1n_ [~pr0kter@188.140.66.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32 -!- nomo [~nomo@mobile-166-137-137-172.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33 -!- wrtp_ [~rog@92.17.51.177] has joined #go-nuts 15:33 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DC28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34 -!- ShadowIce [pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 15:36 < psusi> wait a second... so the built in -> and <- operators are overloaded, but you can't make your own overloaded functions? that seems a little screwy 15:37 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.51.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.155.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42 -!- roop [~roop@122.167.121.231] has joined #go-nuts 15:43 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.51.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:45 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 15:46 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-3-159-249.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:47 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@adsl-75-61-119-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 15:49 -!- angasulino [c80571ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.5.113.234] has joined #go-nuts 15:50 -!- joyer [~user@113.109.220.99] has joined #go-nuts 15:50 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 15:50 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.51.177] has joined #go-nuts 15:50 -!- angasulino [c80571ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.5.113.234] has left #go-nuts [] 15:51 -!- angasule [c80571ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.5.113.234] has joined #go-nuts 15:51 < angasule> I just realised another reason to love Go, if I include "fmt" in package foo, then bar imports foo, bar cannot use fmt unless it also imports fmt 15:52 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:54 -!- g0bl1n [~pr0kter@188.140.66.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:54 < MaybeSo> yeah, one of the designers of Go (Pike) has a rant about how to properly use include files, and that is reflected in how imports are handled in Go 15:54 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Quit: path[l]] 15:54 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.51.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:56 < angasule> well, I haven't heard that rant (got a link?), but I know I wholeheartedly agree... #includes in C++ can be so easily misused it's not funny 15:59 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has quit [Quit: tumdum] 16:05 < angasule> also, anyone who uses strings where an enum should go should be set on fire 16:06 < MaybeSo> angasule: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle 16:09 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.51.177] has joined #go-nuts 16:10 < angasule> very nice, thank you! See you after lunch :-) 16:17 -!- GeoBSD [~geobsd@lns-bzn-61-82-250-122-146.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:17 -!- GeoBSD [~geobsd@lns-bzn-61-82-250-122-146.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18 -!- astrojp [~echoprint@unaffiliated/astrojp] has left #go-nuts [] 16:24 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 16:28 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:30 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:32 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 -!- jA_cOp [~yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:40 -!- lagagnon [~larry@207.200.142.55] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:43 -!- joyer` [~user@113.109.220.99] has joined #go-nuts 16:45 -!- joyer [~user@113.109.220.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:45 -!- joyer`` [~user@65.182.161.95] has joined #go-nuts 16:47 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.51.177] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 16:48 -!- joyer` [~user@113.109.220.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:49 -!- mafs [~maikeru@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:49 -!- DavidJones [~DavidJone@dslb-084-057-107-197.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49 -!- mafs [~maikeru@unaffiliated/maikeru/x-7708887] has joined #go-nuts 16:52 -!- DavidJones [~DavidJone@dslb-084-056-065-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:53 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54 -!- macroron [~ron@c-98-242-168-49.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:06 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:07 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-228-93.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- path[l] [UPP@120.138.102.50] has joined #go-nuts 17:11 -!- hstimer [~hstimer@c-76-103-155-13.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:11 -!- hstimer [~hstimer@c-76-103-155-13.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DC28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:15 < angasule> having read Pike's comments on #includes, I will say he's an optimist :-) What I really loathe about #include within #includes, is that they make stuff available down the line... making it too easy to break unrelated code when cleaning up a header, which often means leaving junk in the header "just in case" 17:19 < nsf> trying to use C preprocessor right is a waste of time 17:19 -!- roop [~roop@122.167.121.231] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20 -!- gastal [~jgastal@187.75.148.141] has left #go-nuts [] 17:24 < MaybeSo> leaving junk in may be one reason the Go compiler rejects imports of unused libraries 17:25 < Namegduf> Hrm. If I am trying to write a server which needs to 1) Have dynamically reloadable code for message handling, due to uptime requirements and need for live upgrading. 2) Pass thousands of messages per second. 17:25 < Namegduf> Am I screwed? 17:26 -!- tvw [~tv@e176001232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:26 < Namegduf> Well, I say it needs dynamic loading and reloading, but being restartable would be okay too- but I don't think Go exposes an API for that. 17:26 < Namegduf> And as I understand it, the GC won't permit me to exec() myself and pretend nothing changed, because I'd need its cooperationn. 17:27 < Namegduf> Serialising doesn't work, because you can't serialise FDs. 17:27 < Namegduf> You can't pass open files between processes. 17:28 < Namegduf> How would someone else here solve this? 17:28 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:29 < nsf> you can pass FDs between processes in linux 17:29 -!- welterde [~welterde@not.welterde.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:29 < angasule> nsf: you are quite right (re: C pp) 17:30 < Namegduf> Hmm. 17:30 < Namegduf> Does Go expose an API for that? 17:31 < nsf> that I don't know 17:31 -!- Damn3d [damn3d@unaffiliated/morpheus/x-0931003] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:32 -!- Sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32 -!- evilhackerdude [~stephan@evilhackerdu.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33 -!- evilhackerdude [~stephan@evilhackerdu.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:33 -!- __20h___ [~some_one@r-36.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:34 -!- __20h__ [~some_one@r-36.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:34 -!- Damn3d [damn3d@bimbrownia.org] has joined #go-nuts 17:35 < Namegduf> It'd be nice to have some kind of idiom for writing code so it could be upgraded on the fly via restart or otherwise, if we can't use dynamic loading to achieve the same goal. An API for that would be helpful in trying to build one, possibly. 17:41 < MaybeSo> I guess if I were writing such a system I'd think about it in terms of having a load balancer or buffering proxy sitting in between the client and the server, allowing one to tell the intermediacy process to point to a different server process or to buffer calls for a few seconds while the server was reloaded 17:42 < Namegduf> The problem is that it isn't a web server. 17:42 < MaybeSo> I wasn't thinking that it was one 17:43 < Namegduf> That idea only works if you're not stateful. 17:44 < Namegduf> What I've been writing to try out Go is an IRC server, and the bulk of such a server's time is taken in message passing between clients; it doesn't serve requests. It's also very stateful and needs to preserve this if it restarts, and has a fixed protocol to speak. 17:44 < MaybeSo> I don't think that's necessarily true, but yes I agree that the amount of work it takes to migrate state information might make the idea unpaltable 17:46 < Namegduf> Yeah; it has a lot of state updates and queries for things such as permission checks. 17:48 -!- derferman [~derferman@dsl092-048-218.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:48 < angasule> why the requirement to have dynamically reloadable code for message handling? 17:49 < Namegduf> It doesn't require that persay, but it does need the ability to perform code upgrades without dropping client connections or losing state. 17:50 < bartbes> well, going down for updates isn't anything too special in IRC 17:50 < Namegduf> ...yes, it is. 17:50 < Namegduf> Every existing C server of significance has dynamically reloadable modules. 17:50 < Namegduf> Restarts are generally reserved for major version changes. 17:50 < bartbes> hmm 17:51 < exch> Namegduf: how about passing existing connections to a new instance of the process? 17:51 < bartbes> so, are you requesting dynamic libs? 17:51 < Namegduf> Not persay. 17:51 < bartbes> or just hot code swapping :P 17:51 < Namegduf> exch: Is there an API exposed for that? 17:52 < exch> Not as such, but it's very easy to prevent fd's from being closed upon process exit 17:52 < exch> You can then use whatever mechanism you see fit to pass it around 17:53 < exch> http://gist.github.com/476631 <- this forks itself and passes the FD to an open file to it's child processes. Updates a counter inside that file on each cycle and ends with reading said counter to display it. 17:54 < exch> the 'magic' happens in openForkSafe(). In go, any kind of sockety thing is opened with CLOEXEC. This one explicitely removes it. 17:55 < exch> Youd have to do the same to reimplement the function that opens your network connections. 17:55 < Namegduf> Hrm. How would I listen for connections without CLOEXEC being set on all the results? 17:55 * MaybeSo shakes fist at *CLOEXEC* 17:56 < MaybeSo> O_CLOEXEC that bit me the other day on an older linux machine 17:56 < exch> I'm not sure how much of the network code you'd have to rewrite to get a proper callchain going, but it should be doable 17:56 < MaybeSo> (http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/8c59132467f027ce) 17:56 < Namegduf> Hmm, ew. 17:57 < exch> I think you can get away with simply copy/pasting most of it as-is. And only reimplement the actual syscall bit. 17:57 < Namegduf> So I'd need to rewrite a bunch of stuff to listen for connections without CLOEXEC being set, spawn another copy of the server, serialise the entire state of the server over, pass the FDs over, shut down the first process, and start everything going again. 17:58 < exch> basically :p 17:58 < exch> The whole state thing is something you'd have to do in any solution I think. 17:59 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@c-24-6-37-113.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07 -!- hagna [~hagna@74-92-245-181-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:08 -!- tvw [~tv@e176001232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: hcatlin] 18:12 < psusi> can't you just use fcntl to clear the O_CLOEXEC flag? 18:14 < exch> No idea. Would certainly be worth a try though 18:16 -!- saulhoward [~saulhowar@ppp-58-8-128-128.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:16 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:16 < psusi> so go doesn't support shared libs? 18:16 < MaybeSo> correct 18:17 < psusi> outch 18:17 < MaybeSo> not everyone thinks that is a bad thing. :) 18:17 < exch> You can still work with shared libs through cgo, but I don't miss them 18:17 < MaybeSo> there's a long thread going on right now on golang-nuts about it 18:17 < psusi> wait, does not support shared libs, or does not support dynamically linking to shared libs? 18:18 < Namegduf> Shared libs are a separate issue 18:18 < Namegduf> But no, it doesn't. 18:18 < psusi> i.e. can you write a library in a .so, but can't dlopen() one at runtime you don't know about at compile time? 18:19 < Namegduf> You cannot write shared libraries in Go at all. 18:19 < psusi> yikes 18:19 < Namegduf> You can use existing C libraries through cgo. 18:19 < exch> dynamic linking is out of the question. That doesn't prevent you from doing dynamic code loading through other means though. 18:19 < psusi> why is it out of the question? 18:19 < Namegduf> I'm still hoping for dynamic (re)loading of code in at least one of the compilers. I have no real care about dynamic linking 18:19 < exch> psusi: for a whole host of reasons. You should check out the relevant thred in the mailinglist 18:20 < exch> it has an interesting discussion 18:20 < Namegduf> I came after the invention of these cool things called "package managers" and distain the use of operating systems without them, so I've never had the hell they discuss. But I don't think it matters. 18:20 < psusi> also I was wondering about interaction with C libraries... it seems the go thread model is not compatible with C libs 18:20 < Namegduf> Dynamic linking isn't particularly useful, functionality-wise. 18:20 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts 18:20 < psusi> since a C lib can allocate thread local storage... which doesn't map well to goroutines 18:20 < Namegduf> Dynamic loading is. 18:21 < Namegduf> psusi: You can bind a goroutine to a thread 18:21 < exch> psusi: You can interact with c libs, but you do need to be aware of the fact that go does garbage collection when you are dealing with data from a c lib 18:21 < Namegduf> So that goroutine and only that goroutine runs on that thread, and on no other. 18:21 < Namegduf> And then you can safely rely on TLS storage in C working okay. 18:22 < Namegduf> C APIs will (and must) document when further calls into a library must be from the same thread. 18:22 < Namegduf> It isn't that common. 18:22 < psusi> ahh, so you have to do some special work to configure a 1:1 relationship between goroutines and threads before calling C libs? 18:22 < Namegduf> No. 18:22 < Namegduf> Only when calling /those/ C libraries. 18:22 < Namegduf> Ones using TLS. 18:23 < Namegduf> "Further calls must be from the same thread." is something that will be documented for a library function. 18:23 < psusi> I don't think I've ever seen that really documented 18:23 < exch> psusi: 2 page discussion on pros/cons of dynamic linking: http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/26f3738b149510a9/df8f9e647545f842 18:23 < Namegduf> psusi: That's probably because it's unusual to require it. 18:23 < Namegduf> psusi: C has threads, too, and requiring further calls be from the same thread is a significant restriction there, too. 18:23 < psusi> just because it uses tls doesn't mean all calls ahve to be in the same thread 18:23 < Namegduf> If they don't have to be, then Go making calls from random threads won't be an issue. 18:24 < Namegduf> All goroutines do is make it so that C function calls can come from any thread the goroutine happens to be scheduled on. 18:24 < psusi> hrm.... I was more worried about reentrancy, but I suppose once the thread calls into the c lib, it can't execute another goroutine in that same thread that could make the same call until the first returns... 18:25 < Namegduf> Right. 18:25 < Namegduf> If the C functions don't allow this, they will document it, and then you need to bind the goroutine to a specific thread. 18:25 -!- Fish [~Fish@AVelizy-152-1-16-116.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 18:25 < Namegduf> Yeah, reentrancy within the same thread won't be an issue. 18:25 < Namegduf> A thread can only do the one thing at once. 18:25 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26 -!- Sacho [~sacho@79-100-169-151.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 -!- iant [~iant@81-233-149-58-no82.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 18:32 -!- elendal [~no@nat/ibm/x-sjlubgrrbnyzmgff] has joined #go-nuts 18:34 * psusi also never did buy the dll hell argument... never even experienced it on windows, let alone a proper linux distro. more common on windows to see applications that ship their own dll in their directory and use that instead of the shared one, which kind of defeats the purpose... 18:34 < Namegduf> That's kinda a workaround that shows the problem is there 18:35 < MaybeSo> psusi: I experienced when glibc went into a constant state of flux some years ago 18:35 < MaybeSo> linux packages were breaking left and right 18:35 < Namegduf> What distro? 18:35 < MaybeSo> I was probably on debian back then 18:36 * Namegduf didn't notice, because he was on Gentoo or GoboLinux at the time, and broken was the default state 18:36 < psusi> Namegduf: the problem seems to stem from the fact that windows does not have proper package management, and a few assholes decided to modify a library, break ABI, then replace the existing one on people's systems with their broken version 18:36 < Namegduf> psusi: I think the people who complain about the problem are UNIX people 18:36 < Namegduf> Or people with experience of UNIX-like OSes, more precisely 18:36 -!- marsu [~marsu@93.15.203.133] has joined #go-nuts 18:37 < psusi> funny, seems to me that they identified the problem in windows before ld was ever written, and made sure to deal with it correctly 18:37 < psusi> err, dl 18:37 -!- elendal [~no@nat/ibm/x-sjlubgrrbnyzmgff] has left #go-nuts [] 18:37 < exch> having to redownliad/build all packages when dealing with static linking is really the only point for dyn linking I can agree with. It's a massive undertaking if you have a lot of statically linked binaries. The modern dya package managers will present all updates as needed anyways though. 18:37 < MaybeSo> at the time I started to seriously think the BSD style 'ports' directory, where an admin would maintain an enormous tree of *everything* for a system, was a good idea! :) 18:38 < Namegduf> exch: I think dynamic linking is a great idea for distribution packages, and static linking good for things distributed outside of the main repositories. 18:38 < psusi> exch: yea, but you still have to build/download all of the dependent packages 18:38 < Namegduf> That said, I don't have the experience to give that opinion any weight, so I focus on trying to solve my actual problem somehow 18:38 < exch> true, but that only becomes a problem for stuff right down at the bottom of the tree 18:39 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 < psusi> true, if you want to distribute a binary without a proper package manager then you probably want to statically link 18:41 < exch> When it comes down to it though, both sides of the fence state either one is 'much' faster/slower, more/less secure than the other. but nobody ever provides proof to that effect. i'd be interested in seeing some facts 18:42 < Namegduf> "secure" is a mess to measure. 18:42 -!- nomo [~nomo@mobile-166-137-137-172.mycingular.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:42 < psusi> huh? I've never heard a speed or security argument, just system configuration difficulties vs storage 18:43 < Namegduf> psusi: Dynamic linking requires doing the linking at startup 18:43 < Namegduf> Finding all the relevant libraries and loading them into memory, or at least mapping them into the process. 18:43 < psusi> sure... slight overhead to fix up pointers at startup... of course, it means you don't have to read more data from the very slow disk since the shared lib is already in ram 18:44 < psusi> so depending on your exact environment and process lifetime, one or the other could be faster 18:45 < psusi> plus you can prelink to avoid the need for the fixups being done at process startup 18:45 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@1x-193-157-193-186.uio.no] has left #go-nuts [] 18:45 < psusi> which iirc, is always done on 64bit 18:45 < psusi> or rather, is not needed to get the same result 18:46 -!- rutkowski [~adrian@078088207115.walbrzych.vectranet.pl] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@wsip-70-167-73-39.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48 * psusi worked on the process startup and dynamic linking code in ReactOS years ago... starting to come back now... 18:49 -!- iant [~iant@81-233-149-58-no82.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:50 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: hcatlin] 18:51 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 18:54 -!- iant [~iant@81-233-149-58-no82.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:54 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 18:55 < tumdum> where can i find information how should Makefile look like for gotest? 18:56 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 18:56 < psusi> oh dear... "As somebody else pointed out: almost all those programs are examples of how *not* to design and build software. " when refering to some of the most wildly successful software in the world is absurd... 18:56 < Namegduf> Sadly not. 18:57 < Namegduf> A lot of large, popular software is quite poor in terms of quality. 18:57 < MaybeSo> psusi: sendmail was wildly successful but I wouldn't call it great software. :) 18:57 < Namegduf> Firefox, for example. :P 18:57 < Namegduf> OpenOffice is one I'd love to mention but it isn't even widely used 18:57 < psusi> apache? 18:57 < Namegduf> Apache is huge and bloaty compared to pretty much all the other webservers 18:57 < psusi> hell, one that isn't in that list but should be: the linux kernel 18:58 < psusi> that's a bit like saying the space shuttle is huge and bloated compared to all other rockets 18:58 < exch> tumdum: a normal package makefile will do. it defines the rules for gotest. You should just make sure you have a file called 'foo_test.go' in the same location as the makefile. gotest will look for that file and biuld the tests from it. 19:00 < Namegduf> psusi: No, not really. 19:00 < exch> tumdum: The key is to add 'include $(GOROOT)/src/Make.pkg' to end end of your makefile 19:00 < Namegduf> psusi: There are other webservers that have similar functionality such as rewriting, FastCGI, SSI, etc, and are much more reasonable in terms of resource usage. 19:01 -!- iant1 [~iant@81-233-149-58-no82.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:01 < Namegduf> Doesn't Apache still need to be run in multiprocess mode with a process per connection for mod_php, even? That's not precisely the model of efficiency. 19:01 < Namegduf> Just because its code isn't properly threadsafe. 19:01 < psusi> I've seen quite a few that can do basic page serving quite quick and lightly, but not with the power and flexibility of apache, which I would think is why it is so successful 19:02 < Namegduf> Yes, but you're incorrect to assume that it's JUST Apache that can do things other than basic page serving. 19:02 -!- iant [~iant@81-233-149-58-no82.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02 < Namegduf> Lighttpd and Cherokee are two fairly popular competitors, both of which are much lighter on resource usage. 19:02 < Namegduf> Cherokee at least can do rewriting. 19:02 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cfd32.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02 < Namegduf> (Both, of course, can do FastCGI or similar) 19:03 < psusi> and also significantly less feature rich afaik 19:03 < Namegduf> I'm not actually aware of any other features Apache has which I would care about 19:03 < Namegduf> FastCGI and URL rewriting is about it 19:03 < Namegduf> Paying a massive performance premium for other things is far from worth it. 19:03 < derferman> If all you want is fastcgi and url writing, you should be using nginx 19:05 -!- nomo [~nomo@mobile-166-137-137-172.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05 < tumdum> exch: thx :) 19:05 < Namegduf> The common fallacy that all other webservers are missing important functionality is, at the least, false, nor that Apache needs to be so heavy on resources to implement what it does. 19:05 < Namegduf> So yeah, it's popular, but it's also a poor example of software design. 19:05 < psusi> this is getting a bit afield from the initial discussion of dynamic linking ;) 19:07 < psusi> also pointing out the inefficiencies in apache seems to be counter to the initial argument that it is an example of why dynamic linking is bad, when if it put everything in its own process and uses pipes, would be far worse 19:08 < bartbes> heh 19:09 -!- wobsite [~wobsite@68-112-244-225.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:11 < wobsite> Hey all, quick question: I'm looking at the ReadFrom method of the ReaderFrom type in the io package, it isn't clear to me what the return value 'n' is supposed to be. same thing for the WriterTo type. does anyone know off hand? 19:14 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:14 < exch> it yields the amount of data read/written 19:14 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has joined #go-nuts 19:15 -!- melter [~Melter@2001:4930:116:0:21c:c0ff:feef:eaf5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15 -!- mjrentz [~mjrentz@adsl-99-183-242-115.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:17 < wobsite> ok. that's what I would have guessed. the docs don't actually say though, wanted to double check. 19:23 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:24 -!- mbarkhau [~koloss@dslb-088-068-251-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:24 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:24 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has joined #go-nuts 19:24 -!- mbarkhau [~koloss@dslb-088-068-251-010.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:35 -!- cw [~cw@parsec.stupidest.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: I ♥ Unicode] 19:37 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:39 -!- sioraiocht [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 19:42 -!- welterde [~welterde@not.welterde.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:44 -!- lulinha [~dummy@189.115.10.86] has joined #go-nuts 19:44 -!- lulinha [~dummy@189.115.10.86] has left #go-nuts [] 19:48 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:51 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:51 -!- iant1 [~iant@81-233-149-58-no82.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-3-159-249.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 19:54 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.107.178.3] has joined #go-nuts 19:55 -!- Shyde [~shyde@HSI-KBW-078-043-070-132.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:56 -!- tvw [~tv@e176001232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 20:04 -!- b0r3d [~m@unaffiliated/b0r3d] has joined #go-nuts 20:06 -!- Shyde [~shyde@HSI-KBW-078-043-070-132.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Shyde] 20:08 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:08 -!- b0r3d [~m@unaffiliated/b0r3d] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09 < tensorpudding> I'm trying to benchmark a function, but go won't let me assign a value without doing something with it. What do I do to tell Go that I don't care about the output of this function? 20:09 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@wsip-70-167-73-39.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:09 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d7b3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 20:09 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has joined #go-nuts 20:10 < exch> use _ as the 'variable 20:10 < exch> a, _, c := foo() 20:10 < exch> it serves as a sort of 'black hole' for data you don't need 20:10 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11 < tensorpudding> it complains when I do _ := foo() 20:11 < tensorpudding> but I got it to work by just not assigning it at all 20:12 < exch> you don't need the : when just using _ 20:12 < exch> _ = foo() should work.. But for this one value you could indeed just ignor it entirely 20:12 < exch> *ignore 20:14 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14 < tensorpudding> huh, that's sad 20:14 < tensorpudding> the goroutines version is about 100x slower 20:16 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has joined #go-nuts 20:18 -!- wobsite [~wobsite@68-112-244-225.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:21 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has quit [Quit: tumdum] 20:21 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@c-71-231-146-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:22 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@c-71-231-146-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #go-nuts [] 20:23 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@c-71-231-146-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:26 -!- Fish [~Fish@AVelizy-152-1-16-116.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has quit [Changing host] 20:26 -!- b0r3d [~m@unaffiliated/b0r3d] has joined #go-nuts 20:26 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 20:27 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@wsip-70-167-73-39.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 20:28 -!- rutkowski [~adrian@078088207115.walbrzych.vectranet.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 20:29 -!- cw [~cw@parsec.stupidest.org] has joined #go-nuts 20:29 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-3-159-249.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:31 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39 -!- b0r3d [~m@unaffiliated/b0r3d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has joined #go-nuts 20:42 -!- angasule [c80571ea@gateway/web/freenode/ip.200.5.113.234] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:45 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:45 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has joined #go-nuts 20:50 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53 -!- b0r3d [~m@194.146.155.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:59 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:03 -!- dbs [~dbs@pdpc/supporter/active/dbs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11 -!- psusi [hidden-use@iriserv.iradimed.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 21:12 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@c-71-231-146-235.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 21:15 -!- tsykoduk [~tsykoduk@c-71-231-146-235.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:17 -!- GeoBSD [~geobsd@lns-bzn-38-82-253-117-120.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:19 -!- tvw [~tv@e176001232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25 -!- bjarneh [~bjarneh@135.80-203-19.nextgentel.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dKIZk by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc: import dot shadowing bug 21:33 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 21:48 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DC28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55 -!- ender2070 [~ender2070@bas22-toronto12-2925103372.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56 -!- ender2070 [~ender2070@bas22-toronto12-2925103372.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- Damn3d [damn3d@bimbrownia.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:56 -!- Damn3d [damn3d@unaffiliated/morpheus/x-0931003] has joined #go-nuts 22:13 -!- DavidJones [~DavidJone@dslb-084-056-065-039.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:20 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:22 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@x1-6-00-0e-2e-a3-e0-23.k377.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 22:22 -!- mertimor_ [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:22 -!- mertimor [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23 -!- mertimor_ [~mertimor@p5DC1CA5C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27 -!- ptrb [~peter@archimedes.bourgon.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dKPhy by [Russ Cox] in 5 subdirs of go/ -- gc: fix smaller-than-pointer-sized receivers in interfaces 22:29 -!- marsu [~marsu@93.15.203.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 22:31 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:34 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 22:40 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@ip72-222-128-78.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:40 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-3-159-249.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 22:45 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.32.59.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dKQXv by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: display synopses for all packages that have some kind of documentation. 22:47 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.32.59.169] has joined #go-nuts 22:50 -!- hagna [~hagna@74-92-245-181-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:57 -!- franksalim [~frank@adsl-75-61-93-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00 -!- g0bl1n [~pr0kter@89.214.17.52] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 -!- g0bl1n [~pr0kter@89.214.17.52] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:03 -!- g0bl1n [~pr0kter@89.214.17.52] has joined #go-nuts 23:05 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: I ♥ Unicode] 23:05 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@wsip-70-167-73-39.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:06 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:06 -!- Wiz126 [~Wiz126@24.229.245.72.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:18 -!- g0bl1n [~pr0kter@89.214.17.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dKVLR by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: TCPConn.SetNoDelay, back by popular demand 23:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dKVM2 by [Peter Mundy] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ -- runtime: fix goc2c for rename to goc2c and *.goc 23:40 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:40 -!- xuwen [~xuwen@173-164-169-69-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dKXmt by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt.Scanf: handle trailing spaces. --- Log closed Tue Jul 27 00:00:05 2010