--- Log opened Thu Aug 12 00:00:02 2010 --- Day changed Thu Aug 12 2010 00:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/edFf0 by [Kyle Consalus] in go/src/pkg/html/ -- Small performance improvements to the HTML tokenizer based on your 'TODO's. 00:00 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Quit: steveno] 00:01 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:04 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:06 -!- tvw [~tv@e176017187.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 00:14 < uriel> iant: hey! tried to contact you last week, but I guess you already were on your way back home, hope good flight and a great time in Sweden ;) 00:19 <+iant> hi, yeah, we left Sweden a week ago 00:20 <+iant> I just got back to California 00:22 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-217-165.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.107.155.106] has joined #go-nuts 00:29 -!- KinOfCain [~KinOfCain@rrcs-64-183-61-2.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 00:40 -!- leimy [~dave@pool-71-164-13-100.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:41 < leimy> anyone implementing REST servers with Go? 00:42 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@g225199087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:47 -!- dho [~devon@onager.omniti.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:48 < dho> hi, i'm bored tonight. 00:48 < dho> what's been going on in goville 00:48 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-233-195.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:51 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.107.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56 < leimy> Considering writing a new service to a management product we ship in Go 00:58 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:04 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@219.137.72.2] has joined #go-nuts 01:06 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 01:10 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Client Quit] 01:12 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:23 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #go-nuts 01:23 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.153.115] has joined #go-nuts 01:28 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:38 -!- preflex [~preflex@95-89-140-172-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 01:38 -!- preflex [~preflex@95-89-140-172-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Changing host] 01:38 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 01:38 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has joined #go-nuts 01:41 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:41 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 01:42 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.107.155.106] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:54 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:07 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:09 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 02:13 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:13 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:13 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 02:17 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Quit: steveno] 02:27 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 02:32 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:32 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:32 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 02:32 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47 -!- nf [~nf@124-171-30-29.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47 -!- nf [~nf@124.149.182.112] has joined #go-nuts 02:50 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Quit: steveno] 02:51 -!- RobertLJ [~quassel@c-68-44-163-191.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:53 -!- jramnani [~jramnani@adsl-75-3-116-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/edQNy by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/sync/ -- sync.once: document that Do cannot be invoked recursively. 03:06 < leimy> ReDo! 03:12 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:12 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 03:16 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:19 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 03:20 -!- JoeyA [~joeyadams@208.96.182.115] has joined #go-nuts 03:21 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has quit [Quit: carllerche] 03:21 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 03:21 -!- JoeyA [~joeyadams@208.96.182.115] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"] 03:23 -!- mikespook1 [~mikespook@58.61.204.129] has joined #go-nuts 03:23 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@219.137.72.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:26 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has joined #go-nuts 03:34 -!- derferman [~derferman@dsl092-048-218.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Quit: derferman] 03:35 -!- smw [~smw@65-78-17-196.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 03:37 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:39 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.92] has joined #go-nuts 03:42 -!- DerHorst_ [~Horst@e176100217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:42 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:42 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 03:45 -!- Maxdamantus [~m@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Quit: steveno] 03:58 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.153.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:01 -!- jramnani [~jramnani@adsl-75-3-116-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: jramnani] 04:02 -!- slashus2_ [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:03 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:04 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has joined #go-nuts 04:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-57-33.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:06 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts 04:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.92] has joined #go-nuts 04:13 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d465.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 04:15 -!- DJCapelis [~djc@blender/coder/DJCapelis] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:15 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.247.41.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:16 -!- DJCapelis [~djc@capelis.dj] has joined #go-nuts 04:16 -!- DJCapelis [~djc@capelis.dj] has quit [Changing host] 04:16 -!- DJCapelis [~djc@blender/coder/DJCapelis] has joined #go-nuts 04:19 -!- jramnani [~jramnani@adsl-75-3-116-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:22 -!- viirya [~viirya@cml506-25.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #go-nuts 04:25 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has quit [Quit: tumdum] 04:31 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:32 -!- derferman [~derferman@c-98-207-60-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/edWOZ by [Robert Griesemer] in 3 subdirs of go/src/ -- gofmt: if a semicolon is found unexpectedly, report detailed cause 04:38 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts 04:41 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:41 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:42 < poet> how do you extract documentation with godoc from new commands? I can't seem to get it to generate from my doc.go file. 04:42 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has joined #go-nuts 04:43 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 04:45 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.135.172] has joined #go-nuts 04:49 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 04:52 < plexdev> http://is.gd/edXNC by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/regexp/ -- regexp: new regularized methods for matching. 04:55 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:56 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:57 < MizardX> An update to the regexp package. A large one at that. 05:02 -!- scm [justme@d019197.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/edYRE by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/src/cmd/ -- 5g, 8g: dead code (already removed from 6g) 05:10 -!- scm [justme@d071253.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 05:11 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@auh221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #go-nuts 05:11 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@auh221.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Changing host] 05:11 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has joined #go-nuts 05:12 -!- scoeri [~jdekoste@soft.vub.ac.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15 -!- scoeri [~jdekoste@ecoop98.vub.ac.be] has joined #go-nuts 05:20 -!- tumdum [~tumdum@unaffiliated/tumdum] has quit [Quit: tumdum] 05:24 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee0ig by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ -- gopack: handle long lines in export data 05:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee0in by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: Mikio Hara (individual CLA) 05:32 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:35 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.102.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36 -!- jramnani [~jramnani@adsl-75-3-116-234.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has left #go-nuts [] 05:40 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 05:40 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055000146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 05:42 -!- derferman [~derferman@c-98-207-60-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: derferman] 05:42 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee1mm by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ -- 6g, 8g: handle slice by sub-word-sized index (uint8, int8, uint16, int16) 05:51 -!- allengeorge [~allengeor@74.12.150.7] has joined #go-nuts 05:52 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58 -!- slashus2_ [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 05:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee2jX by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- release.2010-08-11 05:58 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee2k7 by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- tag release.2010-08-11 06:04 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has quit [Quit: carllerche] 06:07 -!- Maxdamantus [~m@203-97-238-106.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:09 < taruti> Is there a DeepCopy(interface{}) ? 06:13 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:14 -!- allengeorge [~allengeor@74.12.150.7] has quit [Quit: allengeorge] 06:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee3pc by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- re-tag release.2010-08-11 06:20 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:23 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 06:24 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has joined #go-nuts 06:28 -!- jcao2191 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 06:30 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:41 -!- jdp [~gu@24.238.32.162.res-cmts.segr.ptd.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:47 -!- jA_cOp [~yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:54 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 06:54 -!- cco3 [~conley@c-69-181-138-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:59 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055000146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee6w9 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/testing/ -- testing: delete the less useful methods in the testing regexp package 07:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee6wh by [Rob Pike] in 5 subdirs of go/ -- update the tree to use the new regexp methods 07:07 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002182.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 07:18 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee7EA by [Mikio Hara] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: make IPv6 String method standards compliant 07:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee7EG by [Ivan Krasin] in go/lib/codereview/ -- codereview.py: Fix issues with leading tabulation in the Files: section of CL description. 07:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ee7F2 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/regexp/ -- regexp: delete the deprecated methods and tests. 07:19 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #go-nuts 07:27 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@dslb-188-097-079-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:28 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.214] has joined #go-nuts 07:29 -!- General1337 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34 -!- General1337 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 07:40 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has joined #go-nuts 07:54 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seconds] 11:42 -!- py3k [~Py3k@219.134.63.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43 -!- py3k [~Py3k@219.134.63.121] has joined #go-nuts 11:47 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.25.158] has joined #go-nuts 11:53 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp44.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has joined #go-nuts 12:06 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.69.211] has joined #go-nuts 12:13 -!- Bombe [~droden@freenet/developer/Bombe] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:14 -!- Bombe [~droden@weltgehirnmaschine.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:14 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 12:15 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-7-251.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:26 * nsf thinks that interface{} should always box value in a form of a pointer to a value 12:26 < nsf> :( 12:32 < Namegduf> nsf: Any reason why? 12:33 < nsf> I don't like inconsistency 12:33 < nsf> if your struct is small enough it is copied 12:33 < nsf> if not it's not 12:33 < Namegduf> That's about the best behaviour for performance, though. 12:34 < Namegduf> Actually, if the struct, not the struct pointer, meets the interface, it is always copied 12:34 < nsf> I don't think that when we're talking about interface{} we should think about performance in the first place 12:34 < Namegduf> I disagree. Strongly. 12:34 < nsf> are you sure? 12:34 < Namegduf> Yes. 12:34 < nsf> uhm.. so it is copied to a newly allocated memory if it's big enough? 12:34 < Namegduf> I believe so, yes. 12:34 < nsf> and a pointer stored in the interface 12:34 < nsf> hm.. 12:35 < nsf> that makes sense then 12:35 < Namegduf> It doesn't actually make much difference, because if the struct meets the interface 12:35 < Namegduf> None of the methods on the interface are able to change the struct 12:35 < Namegduf> Because they all take the struct as a parameter, not a pointer to it. 12:35 < nsf> well, I mostly talk about interface{} 12:35 < nsf> for using together with reflection 12:36 < nsf> but if it's really copied then it's ok 12:36 < Namegduf> That will show the difference, then, yeah. 12:36 < nsf> because it maintains semantics of a value 12:36 < Namegduf> Might want to check, but that is my understanding of how it works. 12:36 < Namegduf> Yeah. 12:37 < Namegduf> Which makes sense, because it's a value you're assigning to the interface. 12:37 < Namegduf> While if you're assigning a pointer, it behaves by reference. 12:38 < nsf> yep, I don't care optimizations, but I do care about consistent semantics.. and if it works that way, it's ok then 12:38 < nsf> so I'll check that :) 12:38 < nsf> thanks 12:39 < Namegduf> No problem. 12:39 < Namegduf> Reflection makes performance not an issue, because it should be avoided in code that cares 12:39 < Namegduf> But abstraction is something you don't want to have to avoid 12:40 < nsf> I'm writing my config thing 12:40 < Namegduf> Ah. 12:40 < nsf> and I want it to take an arbitrary struct value 12:40 < nsf> and figure out all fields for writing/reading the actual config 12:40 < nsf> :) 12:40 < Namegduf> Interesting. 12:40 < Namegduf> Tricky for modular software, but interesting. 12:41 < Namegduf> (Either it runs in init(), and everything gets access to the config during init, but can't influence it, or it runs after init(), and things can influence the config entries loaded during init, but can't use it) 12:41 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-7-251.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-7-251.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 12:45 -!- emmanueloga [~emmanuelo@190.244.214.122] has joined #go-nuts 12:45 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-7-251.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:48 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has left #go-nuts [] 12:53 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.25.158] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 12:54 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: peace in teh middle east] 12:55 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 12:55 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.144.177] has joined #go-nuts 12:58 < nsf> also I have an idea for "anonymous struct literals", consider this: http://pastie.org/1088206 12:59 < nsf> it might be useful for reflection-based APIs 12:59 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 13:00 -!- aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has joined #go-nuts 13:00 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has left #go-nuts [] 13:00 < aiju> how does one convert an integer to a string, like CHR$ in basic? 13:00 < nsf> see strconv package 13:00 < nsf> http://golang.org/pkg/strconv/ 13:02 < leimy> wow CHR$ 13:02 < leimy> that's a blast from the past :-) 13:03 < aiju> heh there is no need for such a thing in C 13:03 < leimy> strtol :-) 13:04 < aiju> no, that's something different 13:04 < aiju> CHR$(65) is "A" 13:04 < leimy> and that's the other way around :-) 13:04 < leimy> right in C 65 is 'A' 13:04 < nsf> in go you can convert integer to a string too 13:04 < nsf> using standard type cast form 13:04 < nsf> string(65) 13:04 < nsf> should give you the same 13:04 -!- smw [~smw@12.198.177.3] has joined #go-nuts 13:05 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 13:05 < leimy> In Erlang strings are lists of integers 13:05 < leimy> integers of the word size of the machine actually 13:05 < aiju> oh hf on 64-bit machines 13:05 < leimy> so "hello" is 5 32 bit ints on a 32 bit platform with a 32bit pointer between them :-) 13:06 < leimy> Yeah it's terribly inefficient, but convenient for some things. 13:06 < leimy> there's a bitstring syntax to pack it into an array of 8 bit bytes. 13:06 < taruti> then again for performance sensitive things erlang has binaries 13:06 < leimy> right 13:07 < leimy> I've written a lot of Erlang in the last 3 years at work, and have had to deal with this stuff. 13:07 < leimy> I've been overall quite impressed with the language, but wish it had stronger typing. 13:08 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 13:11 < leimy> new go release while I was sleeping. :-) 13:11 < aiju> lol 13:11 < leimy> have to update at work :-) 13:11 < leimy> ttyl! 13:11 -!- leimy [~dave@pool-71-164-13-100.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net] has left #go-nuts [] 13:14 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:14 < aiju> all that "unused" messages annoy me to hell 13:24 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.25.158] has joined #go-nuts 13:28 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:28 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 13:36 < jcao219> the missing newline messages are annoying 13:36 < jcao219> but easy to fix 13:36 < jcao219> for me 13:47 -!- MizardX [~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import skynet] 13:47 -!- MizardX [~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx] has joined #go-nuts 13:47 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-36-174.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 13:48 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DCAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:50 < nickaugust> so wait does P = NP or not? 13:50 < aiju> P != NP, if that proof is right 13:50 < jcao219> no one knows for sure 13:50 < jcao219> but that proof 13:50 < jcao219> yea 13:50 -!- sacho [~sacho@213.91.244.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50 < nickaugust> honestly how the hell could P = NP 13:56 < rsaarelm> Why do you think it's implausible? 13:56 -!- path[l] [~path@122.182.0.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56 -!- path[l] [~path@122.182.0.38] has joined #go-nuts 13:57 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has joined #go-nuts 13:59 < jcao219> i mean 13:59 < jcao219> you only need to find one instance where P = NP 13:59 < jcao219> well 13:59 < jcao219> i can't remember how it gos 13:59 < jcao219> goes* 14:01 -!- Xiaobo [~Xiaobo@61.48.208.40] has joined #go-nuts 14:01 < rsaarelm> Yeah, one instance would do, since you can reduce all NP-complete problems to each other. 14:01 < Namegduf> Yep. 14:02 < nickaugust> yesterday was the first time ive heard of this so im by no means an expert... but it only takes one computation to find P and takes a multitude to find NP.. i cant imagine a situation where it wouldnt... thats the basic thinking right? 14:02 < Namegduf> One instance, and most of cryptography falls apart. 14:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.197.241] has joined #go-nuts 14:04 < rsaarelm> nickaugust: I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to describe. 14:04 -!- smw [~smw@12.198.177.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04 < rsaarelm> NP computations are ones that are doable in polynomial time if you have a magical nondeterministic Turing machine that can explore all computation paths at once. 14:05 < nickaugust> rsaarelm: can you explain to me what polynomial time is 14:05 < nickaugust> ? 14:05 < impl> I had one of those once, but then OPEC found out about it and raided my house and stole it and the plans and wiped my backups 14:06 < rsaarelm> nickaugust: Yeah. Your algorithms are quantified by the number of things they get as input, n. Polynomial time algorithms are ones that only take n to the power of some constant number time to run. Like n^3, times some constant. 14:07 < Namegduf> NP computations are computations whose result is checkable quickly 14:07 < Namegduf> But which are slow to calculate 14:07 < Namegduf> And they include most backdoor functions used in cryptography 14:07 < impl> nickaugust: polynomial time means that the execution time of the algorithm is related by a polynomial expression to the size of the input 14:07 < Namegduf> P computations are computations which are both doable and checkable quickly. 14:07 < Namegduf> P = NP, in English, "If you can check it quickly, you can calculate it quickly" 14:07 < rsaarelm> If the algorithm takes 2^n time, it's no longer polynomial, it's exponential. Then you're basically hosed if you need to run it with any nontrivially smal n. 14:08 < nickaugust> ah gotcha thanks 14:09 < aiju> but "quickly" in the weird computer scientist definition 14:09 < nickaugust> so we just need a computer that can run enough concurrent threads? 14:11 < Namegduf> Not "really" 14:11 < rsaarelm> You're trying the get the nondeterministic Turing machine that way? 14:11 < Namegduf> You're doing the same, exponential amount of work 14:11 < Namegduf> You're just doing it in the same time by parallelisation. 14:11 < aiju> parallelisation can't reduce complexity 14:12 < rsaarelm> Yes, the nondeterminism thing really blows up if you start simulating it naively. 14:12 * nickaugust googles nondeterministic Turing machine 14:12 < aiju> nondetermistic stuff *sigh* 14:12 < aiju> dd if=/dev/urandom is a non-deterministic prime number generator 14:13 < rsaarelm> nickaugust: Expect to get some brain-hurt unless you've done some introductionary CS theory with Turing machines etc before. 14:14 < rsaarelm> At least the Wikipedia page looks pretty unfriendly to anyone who doesn't already know how CS people talk about the computation formalisms. 14:14 < aiju> that's Wikipedia 14:16 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17 -!- Xiaobo [~Xiaobo@61.48.208.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:18 < nickaugust> so basicly a deterministic Turing machine can only have one rule for a given state/input and a nondeterministic machine can have multiple rules for each state/input combination 14:18 < nickaugust> which sounds a bit nonsensical :) 14:18 < aiju> a nondeterministic is basically a deterministic one which had a few beers 14:19 * str1ngs hic 14:20 < rsaarelm> And the nondeterministic one is assumed to always magically pick the best possible choice out of several possible so it'll home in on the problem's solution for the case of P ?= NP. 14:21 < aiju> probably just the same way OOP is believed to make all code nice and proper 14:21 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 14:24 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:24 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp44.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:26 < str1ngs> how do I get the value of a channel ie. c := make(chan string) c <- "foo" 14:27 < exch> 'val := <- c' for blocking behaviour. Or 'val, ok := <- c' for non-blocking. 14:27 < exch> Or a select{} statement if you want to poll multiple channels at the same time 14:27 < str1ngs> thank you was non-blocking I needed. 14:29 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 14:29 < str1ngs> hmm good to know about the select part. 14:31 < aiju> how would one implement a dynamic array in go? 14:31 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32 -!- path[l]_ [~path@122.182.0.38] has joined #go-nuts 14:34 < str1ngs> aiju: I think you might want a slice 14:34 < jcao219> yep slices are the way to go 14:35 < aiju> *scratcheshead* how? 14:35 -!- path[l] [~path@122.182.0.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:35 < jcao219> hmm 14:35 < str1ngs> aiju: http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#slices 14:35 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36 < aiju> so there's no library function to do that? 14:37 < str1ngs> aiju: there are containers. something like a string vector 14:38 < jcao219> library function to do what.. 14:38 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38 < aiju> dynamic arrays 14:39 < taruti> or use container/vector 14:39 < nickaugust> the arrays dont grow dynamicly.. you have to allocate a certain amount of memory when they are defined 14:40 < nickaugust> you can use slices to just look at part of an array 14:40 -!- path[l] [~path@122.182.0.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40 -!- path[l] [~path@122.182.0.38] has joined #go-nuts 14:40 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@62.176.237.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:40 < nickaugust> if you need to grow an array larger than its capacity you actually copy it to a new array. thats what the vector package does behind the scenes. 14:41 < nickaugust> right guys? thats my understanding of it 14:41 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 14:41 < str1ngs> slices are dynamic 14:41 < jcao219> yea 14:41 < jcao219> slices are basically dynamic 14:41 < str1ngs> think of slices as buffered arrays they grow in chunks 14:41 < jcao219> almost 14:41 < aiju> i just noticed, a linked list seems more appropriate 14:42 < nickaugust> so the slices with copy to a new array if your over capacity? 14:42 < jcao219> slices are pointers to arrays 14:42 < jcao219> basically 14:42 < jcao219> so if you increase capacity 14:42 < str1ngs> nickaugust: it gets handles. if the underlying array get copied I dont know. 14:42 < jcao219> you basically create new array, copy the old elements over 14:42 < jcao219> and update the pointer 14:42 < aiju> no such thing as realloc? ;) 14:43 < jcao219> specifically 14:43 < nickaugust> ah, then the slice points to the new arry... gotcha. thanks 14:43 < jcao219> slices are structs with a pointer to an array 14:43 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 14:43 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-36-174.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44 -!- Luixsia [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-36-174.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 14:48 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-233-195.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:48 < aiju> why do i have to return from a function if i name the results? seems retarded 14:51 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 14:55 < aiju> grrr i think i'll modify the compiler and remove those just plain stupid errors 14:56 < nickaugust> aiju: you dont have to return the results but you have to return 14:57 < aiju> ("unused variable" and such) 14:57 < nsf> do it 14:57 < aiju> not to encourage bad programming practices, but they are just plain annoying during development 14:58 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: hcatlin] 14:58 < nsf> yeah, add warnings to a compiler 14:58 < nsf> if you will be able to provide decent quality for that, I will use your fork :) 15:00 < Namegduf> I don't see why they're annoying 'during' development 15:00 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@dslb-188-097-079-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:00 < Namegduf> As oppposed to in general 15:00 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:01 < Namegduf> I believe it is required to explicitly say that you want to return the named results. 15:01 < wrtp> aiju: naming return values is commonplace, even for functions where you actually want to do an explicit return. the compiler error catches a very common class of error. 15:02 -!- Jogo [~jogo@ardus.matabio.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:02 -!- General1337 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:02 < str1ngs> I like the errors personally. 15:02 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.197.241] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:03 < aiju> i don't like the "compiler should check the programming style" (aka bondage) style 15:04 < nsf> I do understand why devs are forcing that 15:04 < nsf> because they don't want people to be able to write bad code 15:04 < jcao219> i think its good 15:04 < nsf> it's a good intention 15:04 < jcao219> what style are they forcing anyways 15:04 < aiju> people will write bad code in any language 15:05 < aiju> bondage languages are just plain annoying 15:05 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@71.21.124.111] has joined #go-nuts 15:05 < nsf> aiju: but it doesn't mean we should allow them to do whatever they want to 15:05 < str1ngs> some context would help. 15:05 < jcao219> what's the bondage in go 15:05 < jcao219> seriously 15:05 < jcao219> it's pretty free to me 15:05 < aiju> str1ngs: somewhat general, esp. the "unused variable" stuff 15:05 < nsf> on the other hand I personally very careful with warnings 15:05 < jcao219> unused variables are useless 15:05 < nsf> and all my C apps are compiling with zero warnings (-Wall) 15:06 < jcao219> why would anybody want to write unused variables 15:06 < str1ngs> aiju: use _. but generally its to avoid cruft. just like the unused packages. 15:06 < aiju> i write my code rather interactively, i.e. i write a bit and see whether it works 15:06 < nsf> so, I don't really see a point of making warnings as errors 15:06 < jcao219> warnings? 15:06 < nsf> yes 15:06 < jcao219> i'm not even sure if go has warnings 15:06 < nsf> simple example: fmt package 15:07 < nsf> sometimes you import it for debug printing 15:07 < nsf> and then you leave it there but remove debug statements 15:07 < nsf> compiler complains 15:07 < nsf> I'd be happy with warning here 15:07 < jcao219> lol who debugs with fmt 15:07 < nsf> me 15:07 < str1ngs> println? 15:07 < jcao219> o.o 15:07 < jcao219> print+println if u must 15:07 < nsf> println doesn't have fmt line 15:07 < jcao219> true 15:07 < nsf> have you tried printing floats with it? 15:08 < jcao219> heh 15:08 < nsf> you should try that, really 15:08 < jcao219> yea 15:08 < jcao219> println(13.30) works fine 15:08 < jcao219> i thought 15:08 < jcao219> yea it does 15:09 < nsf> [nsf @ ~]$ ./test 15:09 < nsf> +1.330000e+001 15:09 < nsf> 13.30... 15:09 < nsf> kthxbye 15:09 < str1ngs> or modify gofmt to remove your cruft :P 15:09 < jcao219> lol 15:09 < nsf> I want to see my 13.30 not that +1.330000e+001 15:10 < nsf> especially when you print things like vectors or even matrices 15:10 < str1ngs> ok so have a stub function that uses all your unused cruft :P 15:10 < nsf> good luck reading println stuff 15:10 < jcao219> hehe 15:10 < aiju> str1ngs: why not just MODIFY THE DAMN COMPILER? 15:10 < str1ngs> aiju: you are free to do so 15:10 < jcao219> still 15:10 < jcao219> it's weird if you use fmt to debug 15:10 < str1ngs> but my guess is gofmt would be faster :P 15:10 < jcao219> but you never use fmt in ur regular program 15:10 < aiju> "this car makes a loud noise if you don't have the windows closed" 15:11 < aiju> "to compensate it, it comes with free earplugs" 15:12 < jcao219> hey i got a solution 15:12 < jcao219> if you do 15:12 < jcao219> import _ "fmt" 15:12 < jcao219> it gives no error 15:12 < nsf> and imports nothing 15:12 < nsf> and I still have to edit it 15:12 < nsf> to get my fmt 15:13 < nsf> I'd rather use comments for that 15:13 -!- Luixsia [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-36-174.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:13 < nsf> / import "fmt" 15:13 < nsf> /// 15:13 < nsf> damn irc 15:13 < jcao219> wait 15:13 < nsf> well, you get it 15:13 < jcao219> i mean 15:13 < skelterjohn> adding a "_" to the import statement is just as inconvenient as adding "//" 15:13 < jcao219> lol nvm 15:13 < nickaugust> thats what i do just comment out the fmt package... kind of annoying though you're right 15:13 < skelterjohn> except that "_" adds a package dependency and makes your binary bigger 15:13 < str1ngs> irc should warn about / :P 15:13 < aiju> no, it should report on error and close 15:13 < aiju> *a 15:13 < str1ngs> hehe 15:14 < nsf> :) 15:14 < jcao219> lol 15:14 < nsf> well, there is a known trick how to make unused package used 15:15 < nsf> just add somewhere thing like that: _ = fmt.Printf 15:15 < nsf> but I'd like to see warnings in the compiler 15:15 < str1ngs> I'm more bothered about handling os.Error all the time. its gotten to the point I just do if err != nil { panic("kaboom") } 15:15 < nsf> I do that all the time 15:15 < jcao219> lol 15:16 < nsf> that's what panic for 15:16 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-104-18.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 15:16 < nsf> if you don't know how or don't want to deal with error 15:16 < jcao219> panic is for non-recoverable 15:16 < nsf> just panic about it 15:16 < jcao219> lol 15:16 < MizardX> defer func() { err = recover() } 15:16 < aiju> i do that in the OS I write.. 15:16 < nsf> at least if it happens you know what happened 15:16 < MizardX> () 15:16 < aiju> if(somethingwrong) panic(...); 15:16 < nsf> aiju: good luck with that 15:16 < aiju> so it will probably have as much bluescreens as Win 98 15:17 < nsf> you totally don't get my point 15:17 < skelterjohn> for dealing with errors, if i don't want to handle it carefully, i give the function i'm in a named return value err 15:17 < aiju> but they're actually rainbowscreens, so they're pleasant and nice! 15:17 < skelterjohn> and do "err = whatever(); if err != nil {return}" 15:17 < nsf> there are three things you can do with error 15:17 < nsf> 1. handle it 15:17 < Namegduf> Panics within a package may be used as an exception-like mechanism if you like 15:17 < nsf> 2. ignore it 15:17 < nsf> 3. panic about it 15:17 < Namegduf> Panics should never escape a package unless they are a fatal error. 15:17 < nsf> 1 and 3 are must 15:17 < aiju> 4. ask they user whether they want to abort, retry or continue 15:17 < nsf> 2 is ok in some cases 15:17 < Namegduf> You should consider a panic leaving a package asa crash. 15:18 < aiju> -y 15:18 < aiju> o.O /me just used they as a singular genderfree prenoun 15:19 < skelterjohn> we'll forgive you. 15:19 -!- jcao2191 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 15:19 < nsf> aiju: sometimes 4 is a very bad thing 15:19 < nsf> especially if a user is dumb and have no idea what that error means 15:19 < nsf> has* 15:19 < str1ngs> pipes dont like that kinda thing :P 15:20 < aiju> oh that's annoying, i want to name one result, but not the both 15:20 < aiju> -the 15:20 < nsf> aiju: what's the point of that? 15:20 < nsf> name both 15:20 < aiju> e.g. something like func sum(...) (res int, os.Error) 15:21 < nsf> and how you gonna return this? 15:21 < Namegduf> Just call it err 15:21 < aiju> then it complains 15:21 < aiju> unused variable 15:21 < skelterjohn> er? 15:21 < nickaugust> heh 15:21 < aiju> in the end i'll just have them both unnamed 15:21 < aiju> is the least troublesome 15:21 < Namegduf> Yeah, that seems sensible. 15:22 < Namegduf> A return statement has to specify all or no return values, I believe. 15:22 < skelterjohn> you don't have to use a named return value 15:22 < Namegduf> So there's no sense in having one named but not the other. 15:22 < skelterjohn> compiler will not complain 15:22 < skelterjohn> don't make up errors without seeing them first =p 15:23 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:23 < aiju> oh hups, that was a variable in another function *whistle 15:24 < skelterjohn> sure it was 15:24 < aiju> i also don't like that braces are required for if :/ 15:24 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-104-18.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24 < nsf> maybe you shouldn't use go 15:24 < nsf> you complain too much 15:24 < nickaugust> aiju: how much go have you written so far? 15:24 < aiju> not much, it's just my initial impressions 15:24 < nickaugust> give it a chance! :) 15:24 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-104-18.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 < aiju> nsf: so far, i like it very much 15:24 < nickaugust> are you just reading over the langauge spec and nitpicking? 15:25 < aiju> but everything can be improved ;) 15:25 < aiju> nickaugust: yeah D: 15:25 < skelterjohn> requiring braces allows the compiler to not require parentheses, i believe 15:25 < nsf> aiju: but then why are you telling us all that stuff 15:25 < nsf> just write some code 15:25 < nsf> and then see whether you really like some feature or not 15:28 -!- rejb [~rejb@p54B65A74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 -!- rejb [~rejb@p54B65A74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:28 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 -!- path[l]_ [~path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 -!- Luixsia [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-31-228.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 15:29 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-104-18.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:30 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1DCAD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31 -!- path[l] [~path@122.182.0.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:32 < nickaugust> str1ngs: jcao219: i still dont see how slices are dynamic... like i cant do s[len(s)] = "asdf" 15:33 < nsf> they are not dynamic 15:33 < Namegduf> What is your definition of "dynamic"? 15:33 < nsf> they are just.. slices 15:33 < jcao219> lol 15:33 < nsf> they do zero memory allocations 15:33 < jcao219> s[len(s)] = "asdf"... wow 15:33 < jcao219> that's 15:33 < Namegduf> Do you mean "writeable"? 15:33 < Namegduf> Or replaceable? 15:33 < jcao219> you can't even do that in python 15:34 < jcao219> and python is super dynamic 15:34 < skelterjohn> python doesn't have slices 15:34 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 15:34 < jcao219> no python *is* dynamic 15:34 < skelterjohn> in the same sense 15:34 < Namegduf> No, they aren't, that would require reallocating the backing array 15:34 < skelterjohn> a slice points to a list that may be larger than the slice 15:34 < jcao219> you can't necessarily do s[len(s)] = "asdf" either 15:34 < nsf> Namegduf: not necessary 15:34 < Namegduf> Thus invalidating every other slice onto it 15:34 < jcao219> in go 15:34 < skelterjohn> you can lengthen the slice up to the capacity of the underlying array 15:34 < nsf> necessarly* 15:34 < nsf> necessarily* 15:34 < nsf> ! 15:34 -!- rogue780 [~rogue780@c-68-34-234-213.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:34 < nsf> :) 15:35 < jcao219> lol 15:35 < nickaugust> jcao219 | slices are basically dynamic 15:35 < nickaugust> str1ngs | think of slices as buffered arrays they grow in chunks 15:35 < jcao219> yea, they are 15:35 < skelterjohn> btw when one refers to a language as "dynamic", they usually mean the type system 15:35 < skelterjohn> rather than the array allocation 15:35 < nickaugust> i was saying you have to do it manually 15:35 < aiju> the word "dynamic" should be a badword 15:35 < jcao219> yea 15:35 < nsf> nickaugust: they lied 15:35 < aiju> if you use it you should be kicked 15:35 < jcao219> if you mean like some array with a builtin append 15:35 < aiju> rl included 15:36 < nickaugust> nsf: thats what i thought 15:36 < aiju> "dynamic", "safe" and "object-oriented" 15:36 < nsf> nickaugust: http://go.hokapoka.com/golang/append-add-to-a-go-lang-collection-part-2/ 15:37 < nickaugust> thx 15:37 < nsf> oh.. wait 15:37 < nsf> that's the second part 15:37 < nsf> http://go.hokapoka.com/golang/append-add-to-a-go-lang-collection/ 15:37 < nsf> hokapoka is quick writing new blog posts :) 15:37 < Namegduf> nickaugust: Slices are pointers, and a length, into an existing array, which also know how far between their end and the array's end. 15:37 < nsf> nickaugust: the first part has example of a "grow array" function 15:38 < Namegduf> They can do pretty much exactly what you can do with that, and not much else. 15:38 < nsf> Namegduf: and a capacity 15:38 < Namegduf> nsf: That was the last clause of my sentence. 15:38 < skelterjohn> capacity = "how far between their end and the array's end" 15:38 < skelterjohn> or rather, they can be derived from each other 15:38 < nsf> ok 15:38 < Namegduf> You can grow them up to the size of the underlying array, and reallocate the underlying array to grow yet larger, to simulate a "vector", but you have to do it manually. 15:38 < nsf> :) 15:39 < aiju> or you use container/vector 15:39 < skelterjohn> which isn't type safe 15:39 < Namegduf> Which does it for you, yes. 15:39 < nsf> or forget about container/vector 15:39 < nsf> because it's crap 15:39 < skelterjohn> is it? why? 15:39 < Namegduf> Automatic growth of arrays is overrated, anyway. 15:39 < skelterjohn> seemed like a pretty straightforward piece of code 15:39 < nsf> not type safe, uses interface{} 15:39 < nsf> oh.. wait it is type safe then 15:39 < aiju> heh Go is getting like C++, many libraries and features but none of them "safe to use" 15:39 < skelterjohn> oh, my same complaint then, carry on 15:40 < Namegduf> container/vector is fine 15:40 < Namegduf> It just requires you to wrap it for type safety in some way. 15:40 < skelterjohn> actually, that's not a bad idea 15:40 < skelterjohn> i never thought of that 15:40 < skelterjohn> you can just do type MyTVec Vector 15:40 < skelterjohn> and do the assertions in MyTVec's methods 15:40 < Namegduf> Yep. 15:41 < skelterjohn> without rewriting the algorithmic code 15:41 < skelterjohn> even though there is some boiler plating required 15:41 * Namegduf uses it with his own singly-linked-list implementation. 15:41 < nsf> container/vector is crap because it can be non-contiguous in memory 15:41 < skelterjohn> ehhhh? 15:41 < Namegduf> Can it? 15:41 < nsf> yes 15:41 < Namegduf> How? 15:41 < skelterjohn> explain 15:41 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:41 < skelterjohn> it's just an []interface{} 15:41 < nsf> because you can't have for example and array of structs (big enough) using is 15:41 < skelterjohn> oh 15:41 < skelterjohn> right 15:41 < skelterjohn> the []interface is just a pointer 15:42 < nsf> they will be stored as pointers in interface{} 15:42 < skelterjohn> so it's an array of things pointing all over memory 15:42 < Namegduf> Oh, right, yes, but that's going to be a problem with any generic data structure. 15:42 < nsf> using it* 15:42 < nsf> Namegduf: unless you have templates 15:42 < nsf> :D 15:42 < aiju> Go needs Templates / Macros! 15:42 < Namegduf> No, no it does not. 15:42 < skelterjohn> definitely no macros 15:42 < nsf> aiju: you can use macros right now! 15:42 < Namegduf> I like fast compilation and non-shit-looking code, myself 15:42 < aiju> go #define! 15:42 < nsf> just plug-in your favourite preprocessor 15:42 < skelterjohn> macros are about the worst thing ever 15:42 * nsf loves macros 15:43 < aiju> heh *noteonlist* "how to start a flamewar in a programming channel" 15:43 < skelterjohn> you love the worst thing ever 15:43 < nsf> well, and I hate them too 15:43 < aiju> nsf: just like marriage! 15:43 < nsf> I've tried to write a parser for C once (for documentation generator) 15:43 < nsf> and I did it 15:43 < nsf> but.. 15:43 < nsf> it won't work with macros bloated code 15:44 < nsf> :D 15:44 < aiju> having to reimplement simple things like lists or dynamic arrays all the time is perhaps the worst thing in C (IMHO) 15:44 < nsf> that's why I love macros 15:44 < Namegduf> Go has both, but they suffer from the same limitations as void* implementations of those things in C. 15:44 < nsf> :D 15:44 < Namegduf> Roughly. 15:45 < skelterjohn> not as bad as that 15:45 < skelterjohn> but on the same level 15:45 < nsf> except that in C it's ok to be unsafe 15:45 < Namegduf> They're a bit better and a bit worse. 15:45 < nsf> in go it's a problem 15:45 < Namegduf> In C, you would use a wrapper for safety 15:45 < skelterjohn> the type assertions make it much more ok 15:45 < Namegduf> As you would in Go 15:46 < nsf> and there are other problems 15:46 < nsf> like Go having GC 15:46 < Namegduf> I don't see the problem. 15:46 < aiju> so i want a combination of C (conciseness and low-level-ty), Go (concurrency, type system), FORTH (extensibility), Fortran (math notations), APL (conciseness) and Haskell (type system) 15:46 < nsf> therefore you can't use raw memory as your array and cast void* to your array struct 15:46 < nsf> GC will not know that these chunk of memory contains pointers 15:46 < nsf> this* 15:47 < Namegduf> At present, I don't think that's a problem 15:47 < Namegduf> It might be in future, though. 15:47 < Namegduf> Not sure, though. 15:47 < skelterjohn> i'm having trouble envisioning a use case for that, nsf 15:47 < nsf> skelterjohn: GArray 15:47 < skelterjohn> what would the difference be between that and []interface{} 15:47 < nsf> we're talking about containers 15:47 < skelterjohn> i don't know what GArray is 15:47 < nsf> it's a container from glib (C library) 15:48 < nsf> which has property of being contiguous in memory 15:48 -!- Luixsia [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-31-228.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48 < nsf> for any data structure 15:48 < nsf> but of course not type safe 15:48 < skelterjohn> oh the void* is not to be a pointer 15:48 < skelterjohn> it's to be your actual struct 15:48 < nsf> void* is a pointer 15:48 < skelterjohn> i got it 15:48 < skelterjohn> ok 15:48 < nsf> but it's not a container of pointers 15:48 < nsf> I mean pointer to a data structure in the container 15:49 < skelterjohn> i misspoke just now, but i still got it 15:49 < skelterjohn> GArray sounds like a confusing data structure 15:49 < aiju> how to call a damn method? foo.method()? 15:49 < nsf> yes 15:49 < nsf> skelterjohn: it's simple 15:50 < skelterjohn> aiju: I suggest reading the tutorial 15:50 < nsf> and useless 15:50 < nsf> except for the GTK people 15:50 < aiju> skelterjohn: i did 15:50 < nsf> and GNOME developers too 15:50 < skelterjohn> *((MyType*)(myGArray.Get(index))) = myInstance ? 15:51 < nsf> they have macros for that :D 15:51 < skelterjohn> haha 15:51 < skelterjohn> awesome 15:51 < nsf> like G_ARRAY_INDEX(myGArray, MyType*, index) 15:51 < aiju> GTK/GNOME people are kind of *ahem* special 15:51 < nsf> yes, they are crazy enough to actually write GTK software in C 15:52 < skelterjohn> do you also need the size of your struct, too? 15:52 < nsf> skelterjohn: nope 15:52 < skelterjohn> then how do they know how far in to index? 15:52 < skelterjohn> i'd think it would be beginning + index * size 15:52 < nsf> GArray contains the size of the struct 15:52 < skelterjohn> ah 15:53 < nsf> http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-Arrays.html 15:53 < nsf> http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/stable/glib-Arrays.html#g-array-index <- _THE_ macro 15:53 < aiju> parse.go:72: tl.PushValue undefined (type list.List has no field PushValue) 15:53 < nsf> :D 15:53 < aiju> :/ 15:53 < nsf> aiju: please stop doing that 15:53 < aiju> argh 15:53 < aiju> it's called PushBack 15:54 < skelterjohn> some questions answer themselves 15:55 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:56 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 15:59 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 15:59 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:00 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-171-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 < aiju> how do you use interface{}? 16:07 < aiju> are there casts? 16:07 < Namegduf> There are type assertions 16:08 < aiju> ty 16:10 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 16:11 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:15 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has joined #go-nuts 16:19 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 16:22 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 16:22 < str1ngs> aiju: read the docs. all this is there 16:24 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-171-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:24 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 16:24 -!- xash [~xash@d063105.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:28 -!- nighty__ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #go-nuts 16:30 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:30 -!- sladegen [~nemo@unaffiliated/sladegen] has joined #go-nuts 16:30 -!- nighty__ [~nighty@x122091.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:34 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 -!- aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has left #go-nuts ["'xπ ρ₯΄ρ ρ¦₯ρΈ₯ ρ§¨)ς'"] 16:43 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002182.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:45 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055000146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:56 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Quit: path[l]] 16:59 * Project_2501 reboot o.o 16:59 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.69.211] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 17:00 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:00 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 17:01 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 17:03 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 17:03 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.69.211] has joined #go-nuts 17:06 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has joined #go-nuts 17:07 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- KinOfCain [~KinOfCain@rrcs-64-183-61-2.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 17:10 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.98.213] has joined #go-nuts 17:12 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d101.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:13 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@208.87.61.203] has quit [Quit: carllerche] 17:14 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-233-195.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:14 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp13.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has joined #go-nuts 17:22 < homa_rano> how do I set the return value of a program in go? 17:22 < exch> os.Exit(n) 17:23 < exch> that takes a uint btw. So no values < 0 17:23 < nsf> and should take uint8 17:23 < nsf> afaik 17:23 < exch> ya 17:24 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-76-116-182-139.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 17:27 < homa_rano> exch: thanks 17:27 < homa_rano> I've always wondered about the range of that number... 17:35 -!- cw [~cw@parsec.stupidest.org] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 17:35 -!- cw [~cw@parsec.stupidest.org] has joined #go-nuts 17:36 -!- cw [~cw@parsec.stupidest.org] has quit [Client Quit] 17:36 -!- cw [~cw@parsec.stupidest.org] has joined #go-nuts 17:36 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Quit: path[l]] 17:37 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has joined #go-nuts 17:48 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has left #go-nuts [] 17:51 -!- leimy [~user@h-68-166-215-82.sttnwaho.static.covad.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:55 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp13.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:57 * nsf is reading The D Programming language 17:57 < nsf> D looks nice in a book 17:57 < nsf> :) 17:59 -!- Xenith [~xenith@2001:470:0:a9:226:b0ff:fee3:3a0c] has joined #go-nuts 18:02 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:02 < xash> Should a library for a protocol return for "uptime: 1123412, status: 1, ..." a map[string]string or map[string]uint32? ('cause the uptime can be very high :-) ) 18:03 < exch> uint64 perhaps? If it's a string, the user has to do conversions manually anyway. Might as well do it for them 18:04 -!- derferman [~derferman@dsl092-048-218.sfo4.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:05 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 18:07 < xash> Hrm, yeah .. just realizied that uint64 isn't that memorywasting compared to strings 18:07 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 18:13 -!- jcao2191 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has joined #go-nuts 18:14 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@enginey-9.border1.sfo002.pnap.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:17 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:20 -!- lafille [~lafille@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #go-nuts 18:21 -!- jA_cOp [~yakobu@unaffiliated/ja-cop/x-9478493] has joined #go-nuts 18:21 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22 -!- lafille [~lafille@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 18:22 < nickaugust> how much memory do strings take up? 18:23 < Namegduf> Strings are blocks of bytes. 18:23 < nsf> the string itself as in a source code + uint32 for its length 18:23 < Namegduf> Characters are as UTF-8 18:23 < Namegduf> Plus the length, yeah. 18:23 < nsf> well, they are reference types 18:23 < nsf> so + pointer size 18:24 < nsf> struct String 18:24 < nsf> { 18:24 < nsf> byte*str; 18:24 -!- Xurix [~Luixsia@AToulouse-254-1-30-111.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 < nsf> int32len; 18:24 < nsf> }; 18:24 < nsf> from runtime.h 18:25 < nsf> and my irc client removes tabs for some reason :( 18:30 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:30 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.72.24] has joined #go-nuts 18:30 -!- Bombe [~droden@weltgehirnmaschine.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:31 -!- Bombe [~droden@weltgehirnmaschine.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:33 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.69.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:34 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@x1-6-00-0e-2e-a3-e0-23.k377.webspeed.dk] has joined #go-nuts 18:35 -!- saschpe [~saschpe@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.89.148] has joined #go-nuts 18:39 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.72.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eePqi by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of go/src/ -- partial correction for CL 1983043: fix various godoc-related regexp calls 18:41 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.90.210] has joined #go-nuts 18:41 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.90.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:44 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.89.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-net168-in.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 18:51 -!- gabriel9 [~gabriel9@93.157.192.28] has joined #go-nuts 18:52 < nsf> finished D book, not really interesting 18:53 < skelterjohn> lol 18:54 < nsf> I'm quick yes 18:56 -!- path[l] [~path@59.162.86.164] has quit [Quit: path[l]] 18:56 < nsf> well, it's all about the same, but with D specific features 18:56 < nsf> like basic generic 'find' functions 18:56 < nsf> stupid examples like TextWidget : Widget 18:56 < nsf> etc. 18:56 < nsf> it's good maybe as an introduction 18:57 < nsf> but has nothing to do with real software development experience imho 18:57 < nsf> I'm a bit harsh on judging that, but that's what I do :D 18:59 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:59 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:59 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 19:00 < jcao219> ... yup 19:00 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:01 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@pool-74-99-22-170.clrkwv.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:01 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has joined #go-nuts 19:01 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03 -!- steveno [~stevenoli@paludis/cheerleader/steveno] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08 < nsf> it reminds me "Programming -- Principles and Practice Using C++" by Bjarne Stroustrup, but a bit better 19:09 -!- acts_as [~acts_as@208.236.105.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09 < jcao219> i think andrei is better than bjarne 19:09 < jcao219> in terms of 19:09 < nsf> Bjarne Stroustrup still uses Shape Circle Rectangle example! 19:09 < jcao219> book writing skills 19:09 < nsf> yes 19:09 < nsf> agreed 19:13 < gent00r> nsf, why D book not interesting 19:13 < jcao219> you read it yet? 19:14 < nsf> I've explained didn't I? 19:14 < jcao219> lol you did 19:14 < nsf> I took a glance look 19:14 < jcao219> ;D 19:14 < nsf> or wait you can't say that way 19:14 < nsf> simply 19:14 < nsf> I took a glance 19:14 < jcao219> yea 19:15 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 19:16 < skelterjohn> i find most programming books uninteresting 19:16 < skelterjohn> i have never found one to offer me more than what i find on the language's tutorial page 19:16 < nickaugust> skelterjohn: i just read coders at work.. that was pretty intersting 19:16 < nsf> agreed 19:16 < nickaugust> maybe not what youre referring to though :) 19:16 < nsf> I really like only one book 19:16 < nsf> that relates to programming 19:16 < skelterjohn> i think the problem is the books all try to teach programming 19:16 < skelterjohn> and i already know how to program 19:17 < nsf> and that is The Art of Unix Programming 19:17 < nsf> by Eric S. Raymond 19:17 < skelterjohn> I'm not familiar with Coders at Work 19:17 < nickaugust> ive been trying to make my way through Art of Computer Programming but its tough 19:17 < nickaugust> skelterjohn: its interviews with famous programmers... really interesting 19:17 < nsf> cause it explains a lot of things like Unix philosophy, and gives you a bit of understanding what it means to be a programmer 19:17 < nsf> really nice 19:17 < skelterjohn> that sounds like a book i'd enjoy, nickaugust 19:17 < nickaugust> www.codersatwork.com 19:18 < nickaugust> talks about why they created the languages in the way they did and how thier personal programming practices are 19:18 < nickaugust> i enjoyed it quite a lot... and they also all recommend other books that they actually liked and ive found a few goods ones like that too 19:19 < nsf> another book from language designers 19:19 < nsf> :D 19:19 < nickaugust> :) 19:19 < nsf> I read it iirc 19:22 < nsf> there is a wise thought, like: "If you want to be a programmer, find a guy who is a good programmer (or you considering him as a good programmer), and ask him to teach you" 19:23 < nsf> and I think it's really worth reading everything that other actual good programmers are writing 19:24 < jcao219> lol 19:24 < jcao219> not many will be willing to teach you 19:24 -!- path[l] [UPP@120.138.102.50] has joined #go-nuts 19:24 < jcao219> 1 on 1 19:24 < nsf> well it's just a thought 19:25 < nsf> it means something though 19:25 < skelterjohn> it's good to have parents who are programmers 19:25 < nsf> for example it means that reading a book written by a computer scientist maybe isn't a good idea 19:25 < nsf> unless he/she actually writes software 19:25 < skelterjohn> depends what you're trying to learn about 19:26 < skelterjohn> if you're trying to learn how to write good software, look to people who write software 19:26 < nsf> yes 19:26 < skelterjohn> if you're trying to learn the ins and outs of how a programming language actually works 19:26 < skelterjohn> and why it makes sense 19:26 < nsf> look at people who write software 19:26 < skelterjohn> then a computer scientist is probably a good resource 19:26 < nsf> :D 19:26 -!- alc [~arx@222.128.144.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26 < nsf> cause practice is quite better all the time 19:27 < skelterjohn> all generalizations are false 19:27 < nsf> in theory 19:27 < nsf> lol 19:27 < skelterjohn> a self-contradiction is never true, in theory 19:27 < skelterjohn> in practice this one seems pretty accurate 19:35 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has joined #go-nuts 19:36 -!- jcao219 [~Jimmy_Cao@124.126.144.202] has quit [Quit: sleepy] 19:36 -!- acts_as [~acts_as@208.236.105.27] has joined #go-nuts 19:40 < KirkMcDonald> I learned the ins and outs of Go (and D!) fairly easily because I was already familiar with the problems that the language was trying to solve. 19:44 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:45 -!- decaf [~mehmet@85.102.51.172] has joined #go-nuts 19:47 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:49 < skelterjohn> The problem go deals with that I didn't even know I had (though in retrospect it was a huge pain) is the silly class hierarchies i used to spend time designing 19:50 < nsf> hehe, I've spent a lot of time thinking about that 19:50 < nsf> but more like on a programmer level, than language design level 19:50 < KirkMcDonald> Heh. I learned that with Python. 19:51 < nsf> and yes, python has influenced that a bit 19:51 < nsf> and now I really like go's interfaces 19:52 < nsf> like someone said 19:52 < nsf> it's sad to see that the Go is the first popular language that has that feature 19:52 < nsf> cause it's not new 19:54 -!- xash [~xash@d063105.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:58 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:59 < skelterjohn> java has interfaces 20:00 < skelterjohn> and is fairly popular 20:00 < skelterjohn> as far as i can tell, java interfaces and go interfaces are identical 20:00 < KirkMcDonald> skelterjohn: Java's are inheritance-based. 20:00 <+iant> no; Go's interfaces use structural typing 20:00 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00 < KirkMcDonald> That is, they are explicit. 20:00 < skelterjohn> ouch, smacked down. now to understand the smack-down 20:01 < skelterjohn> ah, got it 20:01 < KirkMcDonald> skelterjohn: You have to explicitly declare which interfaces a type implements, when you declare the type. 20:01 < skelterjohn> yes, both of you are right, of course 20:02 < homa_rano> the explicitness is really a minor annoyance 20:02 < homa_rano> to me anyway 20:02 < KirkMcDonald> The main advantage to Go's interfaces is that you can define other interfaces which a type implements after the fact. 20:03 -!- saschpe [~quassel@mgdb-4d0cf1ad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04 -!- dju [dju@fsf/member/dju] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:04 < skelterjohn> and two interfaces can be used interchangeably if they define the same methods 20:04 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@71.21.124.111] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 20:06 < jA_cOp> Go interfaces really are a game changer 20:06 < jA_cOp> not just syntactic sugar or whatever :V 20:07 < skelterjohn> right 20:12 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@x1-6-00-0e-2e-a3-e0-23.k377.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 20:15 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 20:16 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@x1-6-00-0e-2e-a3-e0-23.k377.webspeed.dk] has joined #go-nuts 20:20 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@x1-6-00-0e-2e-a3-e0-23.k377.webspeed.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 20:20 -!- slashus2 [~slashus2@74-137-24-74.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: slashus2] 20:36 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.75.51] has joined #go-nuts 20:39 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-net168-in.rutgers.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-net168-in.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 20:48 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.98.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@187.113.98.213] has joined #go-nuts 20:55 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d101.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 20:59 -!- xash [~xash@d063105.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:00 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-188-171-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:03 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-188-171-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:04 < skelterjohn> it's very difficult to grade run-on-sentence undergrad proofs of certain problems being in NP 21:08 -!- ikaros_ [~ikaros@dslb-188-097-010-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:08 < skelterjohn> for instance, the problem "find a k-coloring of this graph" 21:08 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-guqoyzzpqilzfbjf] has joined #go-nuts 21:09 < skelterjohn> "This problem is NP because for the chromatic number for a tree can be determined by using the combination of different colors where no similar colors can be adjacent to each other while using the minimum amounts [sic] of different types of colors. Depending on what is the chromatic number of the problem at hand we can determine if it's yes or no. if it's yes then the problem is NP" 21:09 * skelterjohn faints 21:10 < ampleyfly> wow that's bad 21:11 < skelterjohn> i wish people who had no idea what the answer was would just leave it blank 21:11 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@dslb-188-097-079-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:13 < ampleyfly> I would love to understand the thought process that put those "sentences" together 21:13 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13 < skelterjohn> i think too many people got away with restating the problem in highschool 21:13 < skelterjohn> and they think that will work now 21:13 < skelterjohn> add to that the fact that the student clearly didn't understand the problem in the first place 21:14 < skelterjohn> and you get some really strange answers 21:16 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 21:16 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 21:17 < ampleyfly> skelterjohn: are you holding a course yourself? 21:17 < skelterjohn> teaching assistant 21:17 < skelterjohn> so i get to grade everything 21:18 < ampleyfly> right 21:18 -!- tvw [~tv@e176002182.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20 < ampleyfly> I was just repeating some theory of computation today =) 21:20 < skelterjohn> actually not something i know a lot about 21:20 < skelterjohn> this is a 2nd year course on discrete math 21:21 < skelterjohn> and one lecture spent some time on this material 21:22 < ampleyfly> oh ok 21:22 -!- Jogo [~jogo@ardus.matabio.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176100217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:30 -!- scoeri_ [~jdekoste@soft.vub.ac.be] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-70-249-74-11.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 -!- tokuhiro__ [~tokuhirom@s230.GtokyoFL21.vectant.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 -!- tav_ 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[~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:07 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@88.118.32.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07 -!- Byron [~Byron@cpe-98-155-138-202.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 22:10 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 22:10 -!- acts_as [~acts_as@208.236.105.27] has joined #go-nuts 22:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ef3zg by [Russ Cox] in go/lib/codereview/ -- codereview: do not send "Abanoned" mail if this CL has 22:15 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-233-195.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:16 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:17 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@enginey-9.border1.sfo002.pnap.net] has quit [Quit: carllerche] 22:18 -!- napsy [~luka@212.235.174.112] has joined #go-nuts 22:18 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:26 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:27 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:27 -!- virtualsue_ [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-kjnpnvvlbpqzwpmz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:30 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:31 -!- allengeorge [~allengeor@74.12.150.7] has quit [Quit: allengeorge] 22:32 -!- General13372 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #go-nuts 22:33 -!- deso [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.25.158] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 22:36 -!- General1337 [~support@71-84-50-230.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055000146.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:53 < jesusaurus> is *[512]float32 a pointer to an array of float32s ? or do i have my syntax wrong? 22:54 < exch> it is 22:59 -!- macroron [~ron@c-98-242-168-49.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00 -!- carllerche [~carllerch@enginey-9.border1.sfo002.pnap.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:02 -!- cco3-hampster [~conleyo@nat/google/x-whyjulnehrrdxoyz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06 -!- ikaros_ [~ikaros@dslb-188-097-010-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leave the magic to Houdini] 23:06 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:11 -!- DerHorst_ [~Horst@e176099009.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 23:11 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176100217.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Ping timeout: 630 seconds] 23:15 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:18 -!- cco3-hampster [~conleyo@nat/google/x-pwnzzqhlwnxqsaed] has joined #go-nuts 23:18 -!- skelterjohn 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