--- Log opened Mon Aug 16 00:00:05 2010
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00:23 < hstimer> anyone here work on the net package?
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01:13 < nf> hstimer: what's up?
01:14 < hstimer> It is quite a bit more than a simple wrapper around
sockets.  What was the thinking about it?
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01:18 < hstimer> for instance: 1) why force all sockets to accepting
broadcast
01:19 < nbjoerg> grmbl.  exit1
01:20 < nbjoerg> who named that functio
01:21 < hstimer> 2) why always set SO_REUSEADDR
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01:44 < nbjoerg> is there any documentation of the pkg/runtime's platform
stuff is supposed to do?
01:44 < nbjoerg> e.g.  what the assumptions are?
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01:48 < hstimer> 3) it appears that the net package is setup to support
forking.  Why?  Is this a Go supported concept?  Do people really need this?
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01:55 < nf> to answer 3- people wanted to be able to launch a process and
pass the socket to it
01:55 < nf> 2- i don't know
01:55 < nf> 1- i don't understand the question
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02:14 < Boney> Re 2.  SO_REUSEADDR is in general a good idea.
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02:14 < Boney> it allows your process to re-use a tcp port that has been
recently used and closed.
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02:15 < Boney> IIRC it should be set for the socket that will be closed to
allow another to open more quickly.
02:16 < hstimer> nf: all sockets are set to accept broadcasts.  Why?
02:17 < hstimer> nf: by launch a process do you mean fork?  fork
automatically hands off all sockets
02:20 < nf> forkexec
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02:20 < nf> i don't mean fork the running process
02:23 < falconindy> hstimer: doesn't SO_BROADCAST merely _allow_ the
reception/transmission of broadcast datagrams?  it doesn't necessarily force you
to send or accept them
02:25 < hstimer> nf: still all fds are passed to the new process.  the
option being set closes the fd automatically on exec
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02:37 < hstimer> falconindy: I think you will get them if you set
so_broadcast
02:38 < hstimer> falconindy: only affects udp sockets of course
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03:03 < hstimer> nf: I'm looking at adding multicast to the net package, but
1 & 2 are not what you want with a multicast socket
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03:38 < hstimer> nf: also there is no way to set TTL
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05:15 < nbjoerg> \o/
05:15 < nbjoerg> cgo is panicing now
05:16 < nbjoerg> I think that's a huge step into the right direction :)
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05:33 < nbjoerg> ..and hello world runs
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06:13 < nelson> Okay, I checked on CommonProblems, and searched the issues
database.  I'm getting this error:
06:13 < nelson> /usr/include/gnu/stubs.h:9:27: error: gnu/stubs-64.h: No
such file or directory
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06:14 < tensorpudding> are you running a 64-bit OS?
06:15 < nelson> ahhhhh, yep, that's the problem.  i686.
06:15 < tensorpudding> that file is #included from gnu/stubs.h if __WORDSIZE
== 64, when i peruse it on my system
06:16 < tensorpudding> somehow the __WORDSIZE macro might be confused
06:17 < nelson> Maybe ./all.bash should consult uname -m before getting that
far?
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06:17 < nelson> now it's on to the tests, so that's the problem.
06:17 < tensorpudding> it reads GOARCH to know the arch, presumably
06:18 < tensorpudding> but I'm not sure what sets __WORDSIZE
06:18 < tensorpudding> you do have your $GOARCH set properly right?
06:18 < nelson> hmmm....  if it's (in theory) doing cross-compilation all
the time, then the OS that I'm running shouldn't matter, no?
06:19 < nelson> Well, the value of $GOARCH shouldn't matter until I try to
run something.
06:21 < tensorpudding> so you're doing cross-compiling to amd64?
06:22 < nelson> well, that (was) the theory, but it wasn't working on my
Ubuntu 9.10 system.
06:23 < nelson> passes all the tests if I native compile to 386.
06:23 < tensorpudding> it sounds like cross-compilation might not actually
work, if it is trying to find headers which don't exist on your system
06:24 < tensorpudding> i'm sorry, i don't know anything about
cross-compilation in go
06:24 < nelson> yeah, that would be my assumption.
06:25 < Namegduf> Go is "always crosscompiling"
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06:26 < nelson> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=106 <---
somebody else tried the same thing.
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06:26 < tensorpudding> you don't have the full suite of go compilers
available though
06:27 < nelson> interestingly, yes, I do.
06:27 < Namegduf> Your statement suffers from an underlying error.
06:27 < tensorpudding> i mean, in the normal install
06:27 < Namegduf> A compiler can produce output for any architecture.
06:27 < tensorpudding> can it?
06:27 < Namegduf> The different compilers are for different *host*
architectures.
06:28 < tensorpudding> I always thought the 6 in 6g means "produce amd64
code", not "runs on amd64 systems"
06:28 < tensorpudding> well, i am enlightened
06:28 < nelson> ah!  the docs are confusing, then.
06:28 < Namegduf> If I'm wrong, then you should have all of them
06:28 < nelson> "Note that $GOARCH and $GOOS identify the target
environment, not the environment you are running on.  In effect, you are always
cross-compiling.  "
06:29 < nelson> That is confusing as heck!
06:29 < tensorpudding> so wait
06:29 < nelson> http://golang.org/doc/install.html <--- comes from here.
06:29 < tensorpudding> you need to change $GOARCH to compile for a different
target?
06:29 < Namegduf> Doesn't seem massively hard compared to what you normally
need to do to cross compile.
06:30 < nelson> Namegduf: tensorpudding is as confused as I am.
06:30 < tensorpudding> I'd think that flags would be nicer
06:31 < nelson> it sure looks to me like $GOARCH must name the current
architecture for which you are compiling the go language compilers.
06:31 < Namegduf> Right.
06:31 < Namegduf> Because when you're building the Go language compilers
06:31 < Namegduf> You want to build for your own architecture
06:31 < nelson> The compilers themselves will produce code for different
architectures, and have different names.
06:31 < nelson> Okay, so that brings me around to asking: "What's wrong with
uname -m?"
06:32 < tensorpudding> But then how do you cross-compile?
06:32 < Namegduf> I'm sure that works awesomely on Windows.
06:32 < nelson> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=106#c4 <---
this guy makes the same mistake.
06:32 < Namegduf> You change GOARCH and GOOS when you're not building the Go
compiler, and you DO want to cross compile
06:32 < Namegduf> Harder than flags, debatable.
06:32 < Namegduf> Confusing, not really
06:32 < nelson> Namegduf: Windows sucks; Unix doesn't.
06:32 < tensorpudding> That doesn't work.
06:33 < nelson> Namegduf: if I'm confused, tensorpudding is confused, and
the.wabbott is confused, then it's confusing.
06:33 < Namegduf> nelson: You mean the the.wabbott who made an additional
post the same day, "Next error was cleared up by getting the latest build today.
I am all installed now.
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06:34 < Namegduf> Because they don't sound confused
06:34 < tensorpudding> If you pass a different value of GOARCH to the
makefile, you'll get it trying to use 8g
06:34 < tensorpudding> err, if you pass GOARCH=386 on an amd64 system
06:34 < Namegduf> I guess that explains how it works.
06:37 < nelson> no, it doesn't.
06:37 < nelson> "Note that $GOARCH and $GOOS identify the target
environment, not the environment you are running on.  In effect, you are always
cross-compiling.  "
06:38 < nelson> if that was true, then why do I have both 6g and 8g
compilers?
06:38 < Namegduf> Apparantly GOARCH does that by being used to pick the
compiler.
06:38 < nelson> Surely if I had identified my "target environment", then it
would only compile one of them.
06:38 < Namegduf> Why?
06:39 < Namegduf> Then it'd be no good if you wanted to change your target
environment later.
06:39 < nelson> If my target is 386, then I only need 8g, right?
06:39 < Namegduf> Sounds like.
06:40 < Namegduf> But why would you expect it to only build compilers for
the current target?
06:40 < nelson> "Note that $GOARCH and $GOOS identify the target
environment, ...."
06:40 < Namegduf> Right, that doesn't answer my question.
06:40 < nelson> it answers your question.
06:40 < Namegduf> No it doesn't.
06:40 < tensorpudding> when you install go, it builds compilers only for the
environment specified in GOARCH/GOOS
06:41 < Namegduf> Hmm.  You're right, so nelson is making things up or has
otherwise screwed up his installation.
06:42 < nelson> nelson@nelson-desktop:~/go/src$ echo $GOARCH;ls ~/bin/6g
06:42 < nelson> 386
06:42 < nelson> /home/nelson/bin/6g
06:42 < Namegduf> I dunno.  You screwed it up?
06:42 < nelson> ahhhhhh, I see!  Okay, I'm less confused now.  Yes, I
screwed it up.
06:42 * nelson needs to sleep.....
06:42 < Namegduf> My logic was conditional on the setup being correct.
06:43 < Namegduf> So yeah...
06:43 < tensorpudding> still, that doesn't mean you can do cross-compilation
06:43 < nelson> 'nite all, thanks for the help!
06:44 < Namegduf> Apparantly, you need to specify the target GOOS and GOARCH
and build the compiler stuffs for that target
06:44 < Namegduf> If I change GOOS, it starts building, but can't find
imports
06:45 < Namegduf> Which makes sense if the stdlib is not built for the
target OS
06:45 < nelson> maybe, but I'm not going to be tempted into putting my foot
into it a second time!  ZZZZZZzzzzz........
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08:02 < taruti> I'm playing with automatically building (without Makefiles)
go libraries and got http://go.violetti.org/list if anyone happens to be
interested.
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08:41 < MizardX> taruti: Which one of the packages is yours?
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08:42 < taruti> MizardX: I'm hacking that web ui :)
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08:46 < MizardX> Interesting.
08:46 < MizardX> You couldn't place your code as a package in that list?
08:47 < taruti> MizardX: I could :)
08:47 < taruti> but have to polish it before releasing
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13:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ek9kf by [Nigel Tao] in go/src/pkg/image/png/
-- image/png: support 16-bit color.
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13:44 < b0r3d> hi.  any google soft engineer around?
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14:11 < savechina> hello
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14:22 < savechina> What kind of editor development of Go programs?
14:22 < Tonnerre> vi
14:22 < nbjoerg> cat
14:22 < Tonnerre> maw
14:22 < nbjoerg> dd if=/dev/urandom
14:23 < nbjoerg> (don't forget to hit C-c)
14:23 < str1ngs> ed!
14:23 < bartbes> rm
14:23 < Tonnerre> Oh, I'm not the only one who uses ed
14:23 < savechina> Has anyone developed under the windows?
14:24 < savechina> editplus in windows
14:24 < Tonnerre> No, nobody has ever developed under Windows, that's why
there are no programs for Windows
14:24 < Tonnerre> savechina, there's gvim for windows
14:24 < bartbes> notepad++, scite, there are enough editors in windows
14:24 < savechina> its good
14:25 < Tonnerre> There's also emacs for Windows if people want the full
treat
14:25 < Tonnerre> But Windows lacks a decent ed :/
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14:26 < savechina> I learned emacs ,but I think it's difficult
14:28 < savechina> who using golang in project?
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14:52 < MizardX> I use gvim on windows
14:53 < MizardX> It's not restricted to a console window.  It has good
unicode and font support
14:53 < Tonnerre> gvim under NetBSD / Linux / * is not restricted to a
console window either
14:54 < MizardX> No, but many other linux programs ported to windows are.
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15:06 < taruti> What is the current status of gccgo?
15:06 < taruti> Especially for calling foreign code?
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15:18 < str1ngs> vim console only way to go :P
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15:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ekgtz by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: Mikkel
Krautz (individual CLA)
15:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ekgtE by [Mikkel Krautz] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- crypto/tls: client certificate support.
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16:17 < nbjoerg> what is a good person or place to ask about legal issues?
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16:23 < sacho> not here?
16:24 < leimy_> a lawyer?
16:24 < leimy_> :-)
16:24 < Namegduf> Yeah, I'd suggest hiring a lawyer.
16:24 < nbjoerg> it is not so much my problem
16:25 < leimy_> well it depends on the issue, but if you want qualified
legal advice, you need a lawyer
16:25 < nbjoerg> question is whether contributions based on code owned by
third parties are acceptable for platform support
16:25 < nbjoerg> or if I have to reinvent the wheel
16:25 < leimy_> my understanding is they can be.
16:25 < leimy_> The GNU project requests that people submitting code hand
over copyright for example
16:26 < Namegduf> If the licence is appropriate.
16:26 < nbjoerg> 4 clause BSD :(
16:26 < leimy_> also, you may want to have contributors offer that they're
not embedding trade secrets or violating patents that they know about when they
give you such code.
16:26 < nbjoerg> unlikely
16:26 < leimy_> That was the entire basis of the SCO "owns" linux claim.
16:27 < nbjoerg> it is essentially the code to build the system call tables
for NetBSD
16:27 < leimy_> it may be unlikely but if you want to cover your bases...
people can request that.
16:27 < nbjoerg> I would prefer if I can be lazy and just reuse the NetBSD
code for that
16:27 < leimy_> You'll find that Microsoft has patents on things like a
"tree view" in a GUI.
16:27 < leimy_> so I wouldn't just bet that any arbitrary code isn't
patented by someone.
16:27 < leimy_> this is why software patents are stupid by the way.
16:28 < nbjoerg> you don't have to tell me
16:28 < leimy_> People don't compete on good implementations, they compete
based on ideas.
16:28 < leimy_> the problem is if you don't patent software, then you have
to deal with others who do.
16:28 < leimy_> so you may as well patent software...  it's cyclical.
16:29 < leimy_> it's like mutually assured destruction...  makes no sense,
but it's a "stable" setting.
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16:30 < leimy_> jessta: thanks for the response.
16:30 < leimy_> I was getting worked up over the special text for the
composite literals, but I think it makes sense now in a different light.
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16:31 < bartbes> I'm going to create a country where downloading isn't just
legal, but preventing up/downloading is illegal, then I'll go end DRM by sueing
companies to death >:)
16:32 < bartbes> a bit ambitious, I know
16:32 < bartbes> but a man's got to have dream
16:32 < bartbes> *dreams
16:34 < jessta> bartbes: wouldn't the companies just not trade in your
country?
16:35 < bartbes> yes, there are some flaws
16:35 < bartbes> but if I get an internet hub in it
16:35 < bartbes> and locate my country in a strategic point...
16:37 < Namegduf> "an Internet hub"
16:37 < Namegduf> Please do learn how the Internet works
16:37 < bartbes> yes yes those things are called internet exchanges I
believe
16:37 < bartbes> don't think I don't know that
16:38 < Namegduf> Every country has lots of those.
16:38 < bartbes> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_exchange_point
16:38 < bartbes> exactly
16:38 < bartbes> but if you get some large
16:38 < bartbes> preferably intercontinental
16:38 < Namegduf> Then no one will care
16:38 < bartbes> there is lots of data going through your exchange
16:38 < bartbes> but yeah, it's never going to work
16:38 < Namegduf> Why would there be?
16:38 < bartbes> don't kill my dream please
16:39 < bartbes> dude somehow you make me feel like I'm an 8 year old fat
kid who never finished first grade
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16:39 < bartbes> and who now roams the internet to rant and go on
chatroulette
16:39 < Namegduf> Sorry, I think.
16:40 < bartbes> yes, I'mnot that
16:40 * bartbes goes back into hiding before he feels even worse
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17:13 < jessta> leimy_: no worries, it was only when I started looking
through the spec that I realised it was an implementation issue
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18:07 < nsf> 3 closed issues for gocode this day :P
18:07 < nsf> nice job, nsf :D
18:07 < nsf> s/nice/good
18:08 < nsf> and frankly I don't understand how type inference works anymore
18:08 < nsf> :(
18:13 < falconindy> yay gocode!  \o/
18:13 < nsf> )
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18:14 < nsf> http://github.com/nsf/gocode/graphs/traffic
18:14 < nsf> hm..  that's interesting
18:15 < nsf> peak at the end
18:15 < bartbes> yeah, you keep linking it here
18:15 < bartbes> (or at least mentioning)
18:15 < falconindy> i made an ArchLinux package for it 4 days ago as well
18:15 < nsf> falconindy: probably that's the cause of a peak :)
18:16 < nsf> or not
18:17 < nsf> it has 1 vote in the AUR
18:17 < nsf> so..  unlikely
18:17 < falconindy> meh, votes dont mean much
18:17 < nsf> must be advertised somewhere else
18:19 < nsf> the first big peak was after it was mentioned in twitter
18:19 < nsf> but now it's over 150 page view
18:19 < nsf> views*
18:20 < nsf> strange
18:20 < bartbes> I installed it, that must be it
18:20 < nsf> :D
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18:24 < nsf> http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/
18:24 < nsf> that's it!
18:25 < nsf> reddit effect
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18:27 < nsf> a link on the reddit explains this peak
18:28 < nsf> pretty much :)
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18:38 < MizardX> type T chan T
18:39 < nsf> MizardX: it's a legal statement in some cases
18:39 < nsf> 'type int chan int' will work
18:39 < nsf> but never do that :)
18:40 < MizardX> You can overwrite built-in types?
18:40 < nsf> yes, because they are not keywords
18:40 < nsf> they are simply predeclared identifiers
18:40 < MizardX> good to know
18:40 < nsf> their scope is "universe" block
18:41 < nsf> therefore you can redeclare them in your "package" block
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19:16 < exch> I do love a good shower.  It helps me find elegant solutions
to tricky code problems without fail \o/
19:17 < nsf> lol
19:17 < nsf> I really need to start working on the refactoring part
19:18 < nsf> because I suck at making names for everything in the code
19:18 < nsf> and renaming is painful
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20:01 < fenicks> hello
20:06 < jessta> hi
20:10 < nbjoerg> what is noteclear exactly supposed to do?
20:10 < nbjoerg> and what are the constraints it is used under?
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20:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ekArb by [Russ Cox] in go/test/garbage/ --
test/garbage: do not try to parse package bignum, which is gone.
20:35 < jessta> nbjoerg: noteclear?
20:37 < nbjoerg> jessta: as in the complement to lock/unlock
20:37 < nbjoerg> from runtime
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20:46 < jessta> nbjoerg: noteclear() initialises a Note
20:46 < nbjoerg> jessta: ok, so the assumption is that noone is sleeping in
it?
20:48 < nbjoerg> and what tools are available for go debugging?
20:48 < Namegduf> println
20:48 < nbjoerg> that's not very nice for finding issues in the low level
core
20:49 < jessta> nbjoerg: the debugger is still in the works
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20:54 < jessta> nbjoerg: that would be my assumption
20:55 < jessta> " * before any calls to notesleep or notewakeup,
20:56 < jessta> * must call noteclear to initialize the Note."
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21:32 < exch> hmm.  godoc is broken since yesterday's update :<
21:32 < exch> server crashes everythime I request a specific package page
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22:02 < matt444> how do you do type assertion?
22:02 < KirkMcDonald> x.(T)
22:04 < matt444> wonderful
22:04 < matt444> thank you
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22:20 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ekHgZ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/regexp/ --
regexp: grow slices dynamically in the 'All' routines.
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22:37 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ekIfj by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ --
fmt/print: remove a TODO regarding printing renamed byte slices.
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23:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ekN0B by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/template/ --
template: retain leading space if the line is not an action.
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--- Log closed Tue Aug 17 00:00:05 2010