--- Log opened Fri Aug 27 00:00:05 2010
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00:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eFNj0 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/ -- Make.pkg:
never use quietgcc
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01:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eFRol by [Andrew Gerrand] in
go/doc/codelab/wiki/ -- doc: fix wiki codelab title and srcextract.go
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03:39 < gigatropolis> is there an example creating client & server tcp/ip
socket with the net package?
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04:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eG3Ls by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ -- doc:
remove console.log line from root.html
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04:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eG57v by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ -- doc:
fix margins in root.html
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04:58 < raylu> gigatropolis:
http://github.com/fluffle/goirc/blob/master/irc/connection.go
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05:01 < cbeck> raylu: I don't believe that builds anymore, although I could
be wrong
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05:02 < raylu> indeed, it doesn't
05:02 < raylu> i worked briefly on getting it to build
05:02 < raylu> but have since been sidetracked
05:03 < cbeck> Ah, I didn't see what the question was
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05:04 < raylu> in case anyone is interested, this makes it build:
https://pastee.org/qz3mh
05:04 < raylu> i intend to fork it...  eventually...
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05:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eG9xr by [Scott Lawrence] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/go/printer/ -- go/printer: align ImportPaths in ImportDecls if
PackageName is given.
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13:00 < nsf> Go's type embedding rocks
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14:18 < gavintong> hi, is there a function to clear the current screen of
the CMD ? thanks
14:19 < taruti> just emit the right ascii-escape codes
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15:46 < wm4> I bet this has been often discussed here:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3538156/file-i-o-in-every-programming-language-closed
15:46 < wm4> (the Go version is horrible)
15:46 < wm4> any conclusions?
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15:48 < wm4> direct link:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3538156/file-i-o-in-every-programming-language/3539342#3539342
15:50 <+iant> I can't help but note that the C++ version does no error
checking
15:50 < cbeck> Well, they're not using any wrappers, just raw Writes, which
is making it unnecessarily complicated
15:50 < cbeck> Also that
15:50 <+iant> In fact most of the programs do no error checking
15:50 <+iant> that certainly makes the Go code look worse
15:51 < wm4> well, other programs (such as the D version) exit on error,
just like Go...  but need less code for the same thing
15:52 <+iant> D does an automatic exit on error?  How do you tell it not to
do so?
15:52 < wm4> iant: by adding a try-catch around the code
15:52 <+iant> yikes
15:53 <+iant> I prefer the Go approach
15:53 < cbeck> likewise
15:53 <+iant> and that Go code there is just weird in doing stuff like
Write([]byte("...")) rather than WriteString
15:54 < jessta> wm4: so, if you were actually doing error checking in the D
example you'd still need a similar amount of code
15:54 < wm4> the idea is that errors are a seldom thing to happen, and if
they do, your program is cursed anyway...  most times, you just want to print an
error message and exit
15:54 < jA_cOp> no jessta
15:54 <+iant> getting an error when opening a file is not weird
15:54 < jA_cOp> because when the exception reaches the global exception
handler, it will do the equivalent of log.Exit(err)
15:55 < jessta> jA_cOp: but that's not error checking, that's error ignoring
15:55 < wm4> also, if you have lots of write calls, you have to check the
return value for _every_ call, and you need to add gotos or so for the control
flow
15:56 < jA_cOp> jessta, the Go version is doing exactly the same thing.  And
it's neither, it's error logging.
15:56 < wm4> with exceptions, you'd just stuff all relevant write calls into
a try-catch handler
15:56 < jessta> wm4: how do you tell which writeln() made the exception?
15:56 < cbeck> jA_cOp: Sure, but if you wanted to alter the go code to just
return the error, it'd be mean small changes, altering the behaviour of most of
the other examples would require adding structures
15:57 < jA_cOp> jessta, by looking at the stack trace in a debugger :)
15:57 < wm4> jessta: most times, it doesn't matter...  you only need to know
_if_ an error happened, and if, then stop the current execution
15:58 < wm4> plus if you really need to be that fine grained, you can just
write a function that calls write and catches the exception by itself; and then
indicates failure using the return value
15:58 < wm4> so you can actually implement the Go approach on top of
exceptions
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15:59 < cbeck> Sure, but then the caller will do exactly what go is doing
16:00 < jA_cOp> yeah, but the implementation is much nicer :/
16:01 < wm4> cbeck: yeah, was just replying to jessta...  let me summarize:
with Go, you can only do return value checking; with a language with exceptions,
you can do both, depending on your needs
16:02 < cbeck> wm4: Sure, but go's philosophy is minimalism, and
specifically that exceptions should be used for things which are, in a word,
exceptional
16:03 < cbeck> Failing to write to a file is hardly exceptional imo, for
rarer errors, you have the panic/recover framework
16:04 < wm4> the question is not only if an error is "exceptional" or "to be
expected", it's also about the control flow
16:04 < wm4> with return value checking, your code becomes bloated with ifs
and gotos
16:04 < wm4> and you may even forget checking the return value
16:05 < jA_cOp> at least in Go, that's explicit
16:05 < jessta> wm4: you may forget to check for an exception
16:05 < cbeck> Also, failing to check the return value can be a compiler
error
16:05 < jA_cOp> jessta, yeah, but then it will shout in your face
16:05 < jA_cOp> not fail silently
16:05 < wm4> jessta: but then my program just dies, displaying an error
messages; all is fine
16:05 < wm4> jessta: with return values, you never know that an error
happened
16:06 < wm4> (if you don't check it)
16:06 < jA_cOp> chances are you do, but it will be something else
16:06 < jessta> jA_cOp: Go shouts in your face if you forget to use a
variable you created
16:06 < jA_cOp> jessta, I know, hence: <jA_cOp> at least in Go, that's
explicit
16:06 < jA_cOp> it allows for using _
16:07 < jA_cOp> that doesn't solve this problem at all though, it just
forces people to manually propagate errors...  which is fine, and is the
recommended thing to do, but exceptions automate this.
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16:12 < jessta> two kinds of exceptions, the ones that come out of nowhere
and the ones that you have to declare all the way up the call stack(which is
pretty much the same as returning them)
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16:41 < yiyus> wm4: you could also factor the error checking: func check(err
os.Error) { if err != nil { log.Exit(err) }}, that would remove some lines
16:42 < yiyus> or you could write MustRead, MustWrite, etc.  functions which
panic
16:42 < wm4> yiyus: only if you actually want to exit the program on error
16:44 < yiyus> well, it is the same with exceptions, if you want to do
something else, it will need code
16:44 < yiyus> but what i want to tell is that that example is unnecesarly
verbose
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16:45 < wm4> yiyus: no..  example: with exceptions "file.write("a");
file.write("b"); file.write("c");", with manual error handling "if
(file.write("a")) goto error; if (file.write("b")) goto error; ....
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16:48 < yiyus> but, won't you have to catch those exceptions if you don't
want to quit?
16:49 < jessta> wm4: that's not idiomatic go code
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17:26 <+iant> It's a shame we can't fix that StackOverflow code, it's not a
very good example of Go
17:27 < wm4> iant: you could post a better example somewhere else
17:27 < wm4> that SO post is certainly bad marketing
17:27 <+iant> but people who come across that post will never find the other
example
17:28 < wm4> well they may visit #go-nuts
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18:02 < raylu> is it just me or is http://github.com/fluffle/goirc/network
not loading?
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18:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eH5vq by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/8g/ -- 8g:
use FCHS, not FMUL, for minus float
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18:42 < nickaugust> i have an interface c which i know is actually type
Contact how do I do the type assertion?  contact, ok := c.(Contact) is returning
ok=false
18:43 <+iant> perhaps it is really *Contact?
18:43 <+iant> You can find the exact type via fmt.Printf("%t", c)
18:43 < nickaugust> iant: ah youre probably right.  thanks iant
18:44 <+iant> I mean %T, actually
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19:04 < IRWolfie-> in the package list what does Iter do?  no comments for
it are given
19:07 < jessta> IRWolfie-: it creates a channel and a goroutine to feed the
channel the items in the list
19:07 < IRWolfie-> thanks
19:08 < jessta> IRWolfie-: it's to satisfy the exp/iterable.Iterable
interface
19:09 < jessta> which is just an experiment, so you probably don't want to
use Iter() for anything
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22:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eHkgI by [Robert Griesemer] in 4 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/go/ -- gofmt: permit omission of first index in slice expression
22:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eHkgM by [Rob Pike] in go/ -- CLA: Add James
Fysh
22:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eHkh5 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/template/ --
template: finally fix space handling around actions.
22:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eHkhu by [James Fysh] in go/doc/ --
Documentation: Fix a bug in the example in Constants subsection
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22:11 < nickaugust> does "mmap: errno=0x1" at runtime mean i ran out of
memory?  :/
22:11 < nickaugust> im doing a large index
22:12 * nickaugust scratches head
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23:31 < kmeyer> it means operation not permitted, nickaugust
23:34 < fenicks> hello
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 28 00:00:05 2010