--- Log opened Wed Sep 15 00:00:03 2010
--- Day changed Wed Sep 15 2010
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00:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fb0Z3 by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: atomically update filter file
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01:37 < Tv> has anyone made a socketpair/pipe look like a
io.ReadWriteCloser?
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01:38 < Tv> it's not quite exactly the same..
01:38 < Tv> well pair pipes in this case, bidir; hence, two fds
01:38 < Tv> i'm not sure why my socketpair trick isn't working :-/
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02:04 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fb8fI by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: better handling of deep directory trees
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02:09 < Tv> oh right i need to do shutdown(2)
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02:12 < Tv> mmm, much better
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03:01 < bookses> I have to say gccgo is so big :-D
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03:03 < bookses> about 450M
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03:04 < bookses> compress them to xz 48M
03:04 < nsf> probably it's not gccgo but gcc, it is very huge, I don't use
it because of that
03:05 < bookses> it includes go gcc g++ java and etc.
03:05 < nsf> (I don't use gccgo I mean)
03:05 < nsf> yep :(
03:05 < bookses> I just want go to work with my existing c code
03:06 < nsf> there is cgo for that
03:08 < bookses> Does cgo ships with go?
03:08 < skelterjohn> yes
03:08 < bookses> oh thanks
03:09 < bookses> anyone who wants to download gccgo just type wget
"208.115.228.54/gccgo.tar.xz" --head='Host: bbbccc.com'
03:09 < bookses> I just uploaded it this morning:-D
03:10 < bookses> about 48M
03:11 < skelterjohn> ? why wouldn't one get it through the normal channel?
03:11 < bookses> as the raw source is about 450M and it is really huge
03:11 < bookses> you'll need a lot of time
03:12 < skelterjohn> so you've posted only the binary?
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03:12 < bookses> no , just the compressed sou:)rce
03:12 < skelterjohn> oh i see
03:12 < bookses> just compressed source
03:12 < bookses> nothing changed
03:12 < skelterjohn> 480M, 48M, same thing :)
03:13 < Namegduf> Doesn't GCC's VCS compress text?
03:14 < bookses> downloading single files is much faster than millions of
files ( maybe millions )
03:15 < Namegduf> Doesn't GCC's VCS compress the repository when cloned?
03:16 < Namegduf> (The problems you describe do not occur with git, and I
would be surprised if they occurred with whatever GCC uses)
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03:21 < nikki93> I keep getting confused whether <-chan is a sender or a
receiver chan...  How do I remember this?
03:22 < Tv> nikki93: away from the channel object, towards the channel
object
03:22 < nikki93> Ahh.
03:22 < nikki93> Makes sense now.  :)
03:22 < bookses> can cgo links with c source?
03:23 < nikki93> bookses: I think that's answered in the FAQ somewhere...
lemme look it up
03:23 < bookses> okay
03:23 < nikki93> bookses:
http://golang.org/doc/go_faq.html#Do_Go_programs_link_with_Cpp_programs
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03:28 < enferex> is there a microsecond sleep, like usleep(), I cannot seem
to find such in the packages.
03:29 < Tv> enferex: time.Sleep takes nanoseconds
03:29 < enferex> ah ok
03:29 < enferex> thx
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03:34 < nikki93> Hmm, I tried the 'prime' thing but it gives me some
'deadlock' problem.
03:34 < nikki93> This is what I have so far: http://codepad.org/wSwVY97B
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03:47 < nikki93> I found the problem.
03:47 < nikki93> I did 'filter' instead of 'go filter'.  :/
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03:57 < nikki93> Wow this is totally awesome!  I'm loving this 'goroutine'
stuff!
03:57 < nikki93> http://codepad.org/v8cFXxXp check it out
03:57 < nikki93> Makes you think about programming in a very different
way...
03:57 < nikki93> Just pipe the output to 'sed 40q' or something and you can
kind of track how it works.  It's awesome.  :)
04:04 < nsf> hehe, they are nice indeed, but I'm not sure about "makes me
thing about programming in a different way"
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04:06 < nikki93> well in my case it does maybe because I've never done much
threading before.
04:07 < nikki93> This particular example reminds me of 'lazy evaluation'
from haskell.  :)
04:08 < nikki93> Like that famous fibonacci sequence example where you add
an infinitely long list of numbers to itself repeatedly shifting forward each time
04:09 < nsf> I don't know maybe it makes sense to do that kind of things
with channels and goroutines
04:09 < nsf> to me it's easier to do that simply as a structure and a
function
04:09 < nikki93> Me too.
04:09 < nikki93> But it's kewl.  :P
04:09 < nsf> slow and kewl
04:09 < nsf> ok :)
04:09 < nikki93> :(
04:10 < nsf> well, of course it's faster than let's say stackless python
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04:10 < nikki93> I was thinking in a game, for example, each object could
push its draw requests to a common 'draw' channel, then a 'drawer' will handle
each of those.
04:10 < nsf> but still, I prefer the way without locking
04:10 < nsf> nikki93: in a simple game it's ok
04:10 < nsf> but you know that in most modern games CPU is a bottleneck
04:10 < nikki93> Hmm.
04:11 < nsf> so..  people don't do suboptimal stuff
04:11 < nikki93> Yeah, but on my last project it was GPU.  :P
04:11 < nikki93> My shader programming sucked I guess.  hehe
04:11 < nikki93> nsf: Do you program in go?
04:11 < nsf> latest GPUs are so fast
04:11 < nsf> nikki93: of course
04:11 < nikki93> nsf: Why?
04:11 < nsf> but not games
04:11 < nsf> I like Go
04:11 < nikki93> nsf: I mean - why do you use Go?
04:11 < nsf> I hate C++ compilation time
04:11 < nsf> :)
04:12 < nikki93> That's it?  :/
04:12 < nsf> well, it's clean
04:12 < nsf> and contains interesting concepts
04:12 < nsf> like interfaces, goroutines, channels
04:12 < nikki93> Yeah that's why I like it too.
04:12 < nsf> for me Go is more C++ than C++ (in a sense of C increment
operation)
04:13 < nikki93> I just don't like the enforced brace stile.  :/ I used to
use the 'Allman' style mostly.
04:13 < nikki93> Well, you remember that joke?
04:13 < nsf> well, I don't care about brace style I can use whatever is
correct
04:13 < nsf> nikki93: probably not
04:13 < nikki93> " c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
"
04:13 < nsf> ah, yes
04:13 < nikki93> :)
04:14 < nikki93> So what kind of things do you write in Go?
04:14 < nsf> in Go c++ doesn't return anything
04:14 < nsf> it just increments C
04:14 < nsf> :)
04:14 < nikki93> No it increments c.  :P
04:14 < nikki93> Another reason I was checking out Go because Ken and Rob
are involved and they have 'good taste'.  :P
04:14 < nsf> uhm..  for the last two months I was working on this:
http://github.com/nsf/gocode
04:15 < nsf> it's a tool written in Go that helps you write Go code :)
04:15 < nikki93> Ah! A git user!
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04:15 * nikki93 highfives nsf
04:15 < nikki93> Too many mercurial people here.  :/
04:15 < nsf> not really
04:15 < nsf> at least those that are talking
04:15 < nsf> use git mostly
04:15 < nikki93> I see.
04:16 < nikki93> gocode looks good.  :O
04:16 < nsf> works for me
04:16 < nsf> and for few other people too probably
04:16 < nikki93> do you use the omnicppcomplete for c++?
04:17 < nsf> no
04:17 < nsf> you can't autocomplete C++ stuff
04:17 < nikki93> ?
04:17 < nsf> because it's nearly impossible, due to preprocessor, due to
complexity of the language, etc.
04:17 < nikki93> No I mean, when you write C++ do you use it.
04:17 < nsf> no
04:17 < nikki93> Well yeah it does kinda work though.  :)
04:17 < nsf> because it sucks
04:18 < nsf> it doesn't work
04:18 < nsf> there are zillion cases when it doesn't work
04:18 < nsf> and it will never work
04:19 < nikki93> Nice.
04:24 < nikki93> Yay it's on AUR.  :)
04:25 < nsf> yes, falconindy did that
04:26 < nikki93> AUR is awesome.
04:26 < nikki93> Are you on Arch Linux, nsf?
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04:26 < nsf> yes
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04:34 < nsf> http://bit.ly/bs8a3m <- hehe, I love UNIX
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04:37 < bookses> Does google use go inside?
04:37 < bookses> on real system
04:37 < jcao219> yes
04:38 < jcao219> Rob Pike said that Google was using it internally
04:38 < bookses> One day we can run go on google app engine
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06:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fbpp8 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/netchan/ --
netchan: make -1 unlimited, as advertised.
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09:29 < nsf> gocode users here?  have suggestions, feature requests, bug
reports?  I'm here and my TODO list is sort of empty
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09:59 < falconindy> nsf: it's hard to see the bugs through the blaring
awesomeness
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10:39 < wrtp> nsf: i had a brief look at gocode - i couldn't see where it
parses any external packages...  does it?
10:40 < wrtp> (i was, probably naively, just looking for occurrences of
ParseDir...)
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11:07 < mpl> an empty TODO list?  does that really exist?  ;)
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11:20 < nsf> "Makes binaries work with 6cov again."
11:20 < nsf> niiice
11:20 < nsf> can't wait for the release
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11:41 < wrtp> nsf: Error detected while processing function
gocomplete#Complete..<SNR>23_gocodeAuto
11:41 < wrtp> complete..<SNR>23_gocodeCommand..<SNR>23_system:
11:41 < wrtp> line 1: E484: Can't open file
/var/folders/qW/qWspzPseE00TdOwke7Di8U+++TI/-Tmp-/v563428/
11:41 < wrtp> 1
11:42 < nsf> interesting
11:42 < nsf> is it mac?
11:42 < nsf> tmp dir looks kinda strange :)
11:42 < wrtp> yeah it's a mac
11:43 < wrtp> the file exists and i can cat it
11:43 < nsf> but for some reason something can't open it :(
11:43 < wrtp> seems like it
11:44 < nsf> have you used gocode previously?
11:44 < wrtp> nope
11:44 < nsf> ok
11:45 < wrtp> is that error message from gocode or from vim?
11:45 < nsf> looks like vim
11:45 < nsf> and that is strange
11:46 < nsf> yes, it's a vim error
11:46 < nsf> thinking..  trying to figure out why :)
11:47 < nsf> wrtp: have you installed gocode somewhere on your PATH?
11:47 < wrtp> oh no, i'm wrong.  the file doesn't exist.  the file "0"
exists in that directory but not "1".
11:47 < nsf> :\
11:48 < nsf> the thing is: vim shouldn't open any tmp file
11:48 < nsf> it's just passing the name of it to the gocode
11:48 < wrtp> i'm not familiar with vim, but vi always opened a file in
/tmp.
11:49 < nsf> ugh..  I mean in the gocode plugin
11:49 < nsf> I don't open anything
11:49 < wrtp> yeah, i couldn't see any code that did
11:49 < nsf> s:system(printf('gocode %s %s %s', join(a:preargs), a:cmd,
join(a:args)))
11:49 < nsf> I guess it dies here
11:49 < nsf> for some reason
11:49 < nsf> again
11:50 < nsf> do you have 'gocode' installed somewhere on your PATH?
11:50 < wrtp> yes
11:50 < nsf> hm..
11:50 < wrtp> where's that s:system(...) code from?
11:50 < nsf> line 13
11:50 < nsf> same file
11:50 < nsf> it just calls system directly :)
11:51 < nsf> actually I should delete that
11:51 < nsf> and replace it with 'system'
11:51 < wrtp> line 13 of what?
11:51 < nsf> gocomplete.vim
11:51 < wrtp> ah!
11:52 < nsf> anyway, the thing is
11:52 < nsf> I think it's because I'm not escaping string
11:52 < nsf> I should add at least \"\" to printf
11:52 < wrtp> i've not looked at any vim code before
11:52 < nsf> oh..  wait
11:53 < nsf> hehe
11:53 < nsf> see function gocodeCommand
11:53 < nsf> there is a code that escapes 'args'
11:53 < nsf> but not 'preargs'
11:53 < nsf> I forgot to add that :)
11:55 < nsf> fixed..  can you try it now?
11:55 < wrtp> yup it works
11:56 < nsf> good, thanks for bug report :)
11:57 < wrtp> no probs.
11:58 < wrtp> BTW, where does gocode parse external packages?  does it parse
the object files?
11:58 < nsf> it parses .a files only
11:59 < wrtp> ah.  i hadn't seen that bit
11:59 < nsf> I need to modify parser a bit in order to be able to parse
.8/.6 files too
12:00 < wrtp> where's the parser?
12:00 < nsf> package.go
12:00 < wrtp> ah yes, just found it
12:00 < nsf> well, I do preprocessing for archive import info
12:01 < nsf> and it becomes Go code
12:01 < nsf> :D
12:01 < nsf> you can open .a file with text editor and see the info
12:01 < nsf> it's almost the same as valid Go code
12:01 < wrtp> yeah, i've seen that
12:01 < nsf> has few quirks
12:01 < nsf> but simple preprocessing solves the problem
12:02 < nsf> parser parses 100% of Go std lib
12:02 < nsf> although there is one exception
12:02 < nsf> numeric constants are replaced by 0
12:03 < nsf> because in .a they are in a format that go/scanner doesn't
understand
12:03 < nsf> and I was too lazy to parse them by myself :)
12:04 < wrtp> i'm surprised you didn't rip off the yacc code from gc
12:04 < wrtp> i think that's what i would have done
12:06 < nsf> well
12:06 < nsf> copy&pasting yacc code from the gc is a waste of time
12:06 < wrtp> does the .a file hold info about where the identifiers were
defined in the original source files?
12:06 < nsf> because there is a Go parser in the Go lib
12:06 < nsf> wrtp: uhm..  no in the textual form
12:07 < nsf> or maybe not at all
12:07 < nsf> I don't know
12:07 < wrtp> ok.  so i couldn't just parse the .a files for what i'm doing.
12:07 < nsf> what are you doing?
12:07 < wrtp> i think maybe i looked at that once.
12:08 < nsf> .a files contain type information
12:08 < nsf> that's 100%
12:08 < nsf> other than that I'm not sure
12:08 < nsf> :)
12:09 < wrtp> i'm doing (actually i did, about 8 months ago, but it's out of
date now) a tool so you can find the definition of any identifier in go source
code.
12:09 < wrtp> and its type
12:10 < nsf> gocode can do that..  almost
12:10 < wrtp> i hacked godoc so that when you're browsing source code, every
identifier (including member names) is a link to its definition
12:10 < wrtp> the definition linked to a page showing its type and any
members
12:11 < nsf> there are few problems: even if gocode sees the definition it
doesn't know that this is a definition
12:11 < nsf> and gocode doesn't infer types of binary expressions
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12:11 < wrtp> why not?  it's unambiguously a definition in the source code
12:11 < nsf> i := a - b
12:11 < nsf> type of 'i' is not known to gocode
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12:11 < wrtp> that's not hard to do
12:12 < nsf> yes, I just don't do that
12:12 < nsf> because type of i isn't required for autocompletion and
renaming
12:12 < wrtp> what about i := a().B[5].C
12:12 < wrtp> ?
12:12 < nsf> it's ok
12:12 < nsf> it knows the type of 'i' in that case
12:12 < nsf> as well as type of 'a', 'B', and 'C'
12:12 < wrtp> you do need the type of i with binary exprs for autocompletion
12:12 < nsf> :)
12:13 < nsf> no
12:13 < nsf> because type of i is either a number (int, float, etc) or a
string
12:13 < wrtp> no
12:13 < nsf> and you can't autocomplete anything
12:13 < wrtp> what about:
12:13 < wrtp> type X int
12:13 < wrtp> a := X(56)
12:13 < wrtp> i := a + 67
12:13 < wrtp> then i has methods
12:14 < nsf> well, here we have a test case
12:14 < nsf> thanks
12:14 < wrtp> np :-)
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12:14 < wrtp> my old code dealt with all that...  :-)
12:14 < nsf> I'll add that to tests now
12:17 < nsf> http://bit.ly/bEz4jJ
12:17 < nsf> added
12:18 < nsf> test.go is a bit incorrect
12:18 < nsf> return x * x
12:18 < nsf> should be:
12:18 < nsf> return int(x * x)
12:19 < nsf> but gocode doesn't care about semantics
12:19 < nsf> in that case
12:19 < wrtp> http://codereview.appspot.com/179057
12:21 < nsf> I see
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12:23 < wrtp> actually, things changed a lot after that CL
12:23 < wrtp> but that was my first attempt
12:24 < nsf> well, for gocode type inference wasn't a big problem
12:24 < nsf> the main challenge was to make a good cache for the daemon
12:24 < nsf> in order to provide really fast autocompletions
12:24 < nsf> currently it's 30ms for an autocompletion request with warm
cache
12:25 < nsf> 80ms if you're asking for something like 'gl.' (contains 1600
entries)
12:25 < nsf> and..  what is more interesting
12:25 < nsf> cache is shared between autocompletion and refactoring modules
:)
12:26 < nsf> s/refactoring/renaming/
12:26 < wrtp> life is easier if you have a persistent daemon.  i found that
doing it from cold was fast enough (i ran the command each time)
12:27 < nsf> yes, it kinda fast too
12:27 < nsf> 300ms for cold autocompletion
12:27 < wrtp> that's pretty slow
12:27 < nsf> but being as fast as possible is important for a nice user
interface
12:27 < nsf> well, the bottleneck is .a parsing
12:27 < wrtp> perhaps you read in more than necessary?
12:27 < nsf> I'm loading each .a file completely
12:27 < nsf> yes
12:28 < wrtp> i made sure that i only parsed on demand.
12:28 < nsf> if I will enable .a cache and make it warm but disable file
cache
12:28 < nsf> autocompletions is 80ms
12:28 < nsf> hehe
12:28 < nsf> I though about that
12:28 < nsf> kinda lazy type inference
12:28 < wrtp> yeah
12:28 < nsf> but haven't implemented
12:28 < wrtp> it's not hard
12:28 < nsf> yep, it is
12:28 < nsf> I mean it's not that hard
12:28 < nsf> and in fact I'm doing that
12:29 < nsf> I don't infer types that I don't use for example
12:29 < nsf> but I do load all the modules at once
12:29 < nsf> in concurrent fashion actually :)
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12:30 < nsf> but the speed up is minor with two cores it's like 20-30%
12:30 < nsf> anyway..  it works as it is, and I'm quite happy about that
12:30 < wrtp> i just parsed the local file firstly.  asking to resolve a
type tried first to resolve it using only info from the local file.  then it tries
loading other files in the same directory.  then it infers package names.  then it
knows which package to parse completely.
12:30 < nsf> of course there is a room for improvement :)
12:31 < wrtp> yeah, i was trying hard to make it work fast in the cold case,
since i was starting from scratch each time
12:31 < nsf> wrtp: it makes sense yes, but you see if you have cache it's a
bad strategy
12:31 < wrtp> not really - fill on demand
12:31 < nsf> it's better to fill cache early with lots of modules
12:32 < wrtp> why is that better?
12:32 < nsf> because most likely only the first autocompletion will be slow
12:32 < wrtp> just makes start up slower
12:32 < nsf> well..  yes
12:32 < wrtp> if you can amortise startup time over several queries, the
likelyhood is you'll never notice it
12:32 < nsf> but it's ok :)
12:33 < nsf> hehe
12:33 < nsf> yes I can
12:33 < wrtp> that's because you take all the hit at the start...
12:33 < wrtp> fill early is worse :-)
12:34 < nsf> maybe you're right
12:34 < nsf> that's another interesting task to try
12:34 < nsf> I think it should be pretty easy to make package loading lazy
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12:34 < nsf> at least for autocompletion
12:35 < nsf> well, renaming feature requires full parsing anyway
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12:36 < nsf> wrtp: ok, thanks again for bug reports and for the talk :)
12:36 < wrtp> it's been a pleasure
12:37 < nsf> it was an interesting discussion :)
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14:28 < Gertm> emacs' go-mode is indenting my code very wide, is this the
default?
14:30 <+iant> the default is what gofmt does, which is to use tab
indentation
14:30 < Gertm> yeah, it's the same indeed, but it's very wide
14:30 < Namegduf> The width of a tab is editor-dependent.
14:31 < Namegduf> If indents are too deep, you can adjust its settings.
14:31 < Gertm> but when I let gofmt do it in the console, without my editor,
it's exactly the same
14:31 < nbjoerg> it's more like "some editors decide to ignore the historic
definition of a tab"
14:32 * Namegduf thinks varying tab width by editor config makes perfect sense if
you consider that some people work in fullscreen IDEs, and others (like me) work
in 80 width terminal windows.
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14:33 < nbjoerg> I still belong into the "if you need more than 3 levels of
indentation, your code is bad" fraction
14:34 < Namegduf> I largely agree (mostly because it suggests you should be
splitting your function into smaller functions), although I think exceptions
happen here and there, such as when you really do need a loop in a loop containing
an if statement, none of which contain much other code.
14:35 < Namegduf> Go's general approach with making early termination safe
rather than insisting on a single entry and exit point for code helps.
14:36 < gmilleramilar> ok, here's my guess for tab width in emacs (from my
newly edited .emacs file):
14:36 < gmilleramilar> http://pastebin.com/SArCJbMQ
14:37 < gmilleramilar> (not sure if this would set it just for go buffers or
globally)
14:37 < gmilleramilar> (I'm not a lisp hacker at all)
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19:01 < gmilleramilar> shouldn't gofmt support a -i switch to process a file
in-place?
19:01 < exch> gofmt -w file.go
19:01 < gmilleramilar> ah
19:02 < gmilleramilar> ok, I'm not sure that obviates the need for a -i, but
my followup question would be couldn't we improve the help output from gofmt to
indicate that better?
19:03 < exch> "-w=false: write result to (source) file instead of stdout"
that seems clear enough
19:03 < gmilleramilar> I assume -w=false means that the default value for
that flag is false, but I'm actually still not sure.
19:04 < exch> the output for boolean flags is a bit odd.  A boolean flag
like -w is false if it is not specified.  It's true if specified
19:04 < gmilleramilar> yeah, that's my point.  why would a switch that
ostensibly takes a string have a default of false?
19:05 < exch> that's just the way the standard flags package outputs stuff.
I concur that is is lacking
19:05 < exch> It could also use better formatting
19:05 < exch> s/is is/it is/
19:06 < gmilleramilar> ok, thanks anyway
19:06 < exch> I use my own commandline args package instead.  it gives much
nicrer formatted and properly aligned help output
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19:38 < bortzmeyer> Just ran a "hg update" then a make.  Now, no program can
be linked: "main.main: undefined: runtime.catstring"
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19:40 < bortzmeyer> Apparently, it is not all the programs, only those using
"net"
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20:35 < Sh4pe> hi
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21:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fcoI9 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/libmach/ --
libmach: fix build on arm host
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21:32 < anticw> iant: is anyone using gccgo in a cross env?  i assume the
rtems stuff is done that way and probably not x86?
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21:33 <+iant> anticw: yes, the RTEMS work used a cross-compiler, but it was
a cross-compiler to x86
21:33 < anticw> ok, so the runtime, etc worked close to as-is then
21:34 < anticw> for mips ...  well, that all needs refactoring
21:34 <+iant> yes, hopefully it would not be too much work but I don't
really know
21:34 <+iant> there isn't much assembly code or anything like that
21:35 < anticw> it's a toss-up between 'use the mips stuff and put work in'
and 'ditch the hw and get x86'
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21:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fcpTc by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/gc/ --
fix line number printing
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22:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fcsoG by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: only show directories containing true package files
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22:39 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fctvI by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/os/
-- os: error in documentation
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 16 00:00:07 2010