--- Log opened Wed Sep 29 00:00:07 2010
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00:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyEag by [Russ Cox] in go/lib/codereview/ --
codereview: fix upload of hg copied file
00:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyEam by [Russ Cox] in 14 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/runtime/ -- runtime: add mmap of null page just in case
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00:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyFpM by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/runtime/ -- runtime: fix build
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01:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyHUw by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/5g/ --
arm code gen error in unsign extend
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01:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyJbJ by [Russ Cox] in
go/src/pkg/runtime/freebsd/ -- runtime: fix freebsd build
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01:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyKs8 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/libcgo/ --
libcgo: don't build for NaCl
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03:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyQmj by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ --
gotest: leave _testmain.go for "make clean" to clean up
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03:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyTHi by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/ -- arm: 10
more package tests pass
03:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyTHo by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/src/ --
build: clear custom variables like GREP_OPTIONS
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04:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fyX2C by [Stephen Ma] in 6 subdirs of go/src/
-- http: revised http Handler interface
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07:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fzeyu by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ -- doc:
consolidate FAQs into a single file, go_faq.html
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08:12 < enferex> Is there a way to have the gc (6g/5g) compiler dump in
debugging flags?  I do not see any mention of an additional flag I can add to have
the compiler toss in some DWARF or STABS data.
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09:43 < Gertm> building go on a i586/BSD crashes in the test phase:
..go/bin/gotest: line 183: 30427 Trace/BPT trap: 5 is that a known issue?
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12:26 < gummibaerchen> Hi, I'm writing my first small program in Go, and am
currently unsure how to proceed.  I retrieve DB rows via gosqlite, which doesn't
give a count, so if I want to export them, how would I package them?  I don't know
the size for an array yet, and the List on interface{} doesn't feel right.
12:27 < gummibaerchen> I want to pass that on to the template engine for
rendering, so I don't really care about the count of the elements I got, I just
need to stuff them into something to pass them on
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12:34 < scyth> gummibaerchen, len()?
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12:43 < wrtp> if you want them in an array, you could store all the elements
in a Vector, then create your own vector of the correct type and then populate it
at the end.
12:43 < wrtp> or you could pass them down a channel one by one.
12:44 < wrtp> or you could store them in a linked list.
12:45 < Namegduf> Providing a slice is tidy.
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12:52 < gummibaerchen> I don't think len would work on the sqlite statement
12:53 < gummibaerchen> I went with a channel for now, as that may make the
problem of getting the correct number of items obsolete and then again it's the
most interesting concept
12:53 < Namegduf> It's also very slow.
12:54 < Namegduf> Not too bad if it's the neatest solution for a scenario,
and the amount of computation per result is high, but not a good default option.
12:54 < gummibaerchen> hmm, slow like an issue slow?  I though that was one
of the central concept, so it shouldn't be so slow as to not recommend it (in the
final version), right?
12:54 < Namegduf> The central concept is to use channels to communicate, and
they're fast enough for communication, but excessive communication is a bad thing.
12:55 < jnwhiteh> choosing the right level of abstraction still matters,
indeed =)
12:55 < wrtp> slowness is relative...
12:55 < wrtp> (to what you want to do)
12:55 < gummibaerchen> hmm, but should I then start with an array of 2 and
double that whenever I get new elements?  that could mean an awful lot of resizing
12:56 < Namegduf> Are you actually getting new elements dynamically, or do
you have a single List?
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12:56 < gummibaerchen> in C# there is the concept IEnumerable and you can
emit new elements whenever/as long as you have them, I was building something
similar with channels here
12:57 < gummibaerchen> Namegduf: I use the gosqlite adapter, and it only
provides a Next method
12:57 < Namegduf> With the next method returning nil when you're done?
12:57 < gummibaerchen> I could get a COUNT from the DB first, but then what
if the DB changes between the two queries?
12:57 < Namegduf> You can iterate the list twice.
12:58 < gummibaerchen> exactly
12:58 < Namegduf> Once to get the length and allocate an array, another to
set up the array.
12:58 < gummibaerchen> once for counting and once for getting the actual
elements?
12:58 < Namegduf> Hmm, you can't keep the original iterator around and
iterate it again?
12:59 < Namegduf> If you can, yes.
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12:59 < gummibaerchen> maybe faster in practice than channels, but not very
nice, wouldn't you agree?
12:59 < Namegduf> No- but this is how you get the length of a list, which is
a defined operation.
12:59 < Namegduf> It's really gosqlite's fault for not providing a count.
13:00 < nbjoerg> no, it isn't
13:00 < Namegduf> Yes, it is.
13:00 < nbjoerg> if you want to know the number of rows, you have to fetch
all of them first
13:01 < nbjoerg> that's a major design choice by almost all SQL engines
13:01 < Namegduf> I thought that most SQL APIs could provide a count along
with the iterating thing.
13:01 < nbjoerg> simply because you don't want to compute the number of rows
if you don't have to as it can be very expensive
13:02 < Namegduf> Well, anyway, you can also use a Vector, which is fairly
common.
13:02 < Namegduf> If you don't know how many.
13:02 < nbjoerg> and depending on how you use the database, the COUNT(*) is
precise and can't change anyway
13:02 < nbjoerg> e.g.  for sqlite, if you have a write lock on the db
13:02 < Namegduf> What're you returning, and what's it used for?
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13:03 < Namegduf> Maybe the best idea is to wrap the returned iterator in a
type of your own, with its own Next() method.
13:03 < Namegduf> Assuming you're doing something more complicated than just
passing on the results, in which case you could actually return the iterator.
13:03 < nbjoerg> that's what statements give you as interface, at least on
the C side
13:04 < nbjoerg> if you don't use the convinient wrapper
13:05 < gummibaerchen> well, it's just a bunch of simple structs, that I
want to pass on to the template engine for rendering
13:05 < gummibaerchen> but I will try to iterate twice, and hopefully it
will be the same collection of rows
13:06 < nbjoerg> if you want to use the data anyway, push it into a vector
13:06 < nbjoerg> that's cheaper than doing a count first or other ways that
execute two queries
13:06 < nbjoerg> unless of course, your row set is extremely large
13:06 < gummibaerchen> ok, I will go with that
13:07 < gummibaerchen> but if channels aren't cheap, the examples on
golang.org aren't really suited to use channels, right?  (I know it's a nice
demonstration etc.  but I am just think WHERE I actually should use them then)
13:09 < nbjoerg> channels for data set enumeration work well as long as you
don't care about knowing the number in advantage
13:09 < nbjoerg> and are a very abstraction in that case
13:09 < nbjoerg> you can still build a collector on top that pushes every
item into a vector to compute the count
13:11 < gummibaerchen> of course, that's why I thought it's good, because I
don't have to stuff the elements into any special collection.  but then I read in
here that they're (too) expensive for this
13:12 < gummibaerchen> but if I go and pack them into a Vector, would I
return them as a typed slice?  or would I have to pack them into a new array of
the correct type?  then my costs are probably higher than counting once.
13:12 < nbjoerg> the collector can provide the channel interface again
13:13 < nbjoerg> what it uses internally for the storage is a separate
question
13:15 < gummibaerchen> why would I want to pack them into a vector and then
'export' them via a channel again?  I could just move them from the SQLite
iterator onto the channel?!
13:15 < gummibaerchen> I assumed you recommended the Vector in order to
export and array/slice with a fixed type and length
13:17 < nbjoerg> if you don't care about the count, you use the iteration
channel directly
13:17 < nbjoerg> if you do need the count, you pass them through the
collector
13:18 < nbjoerg> the collector doesn't care if your data source is sqlite,
postgres, your own fancy google spider etc
13:18 < gummibaerchen> ok, so you don't agree that a channel has too much
overhead for this?  fine, then I will go forward with the channel approach
13:19 < nbjoerg> *sigh*
13:19 < nbjoerg> I'm just saying that channels are a nice principle of
abstraction
13:20 < nbjoerg> they don't fit every use case.  if you know that you will
need all data and have to keep the result in memory anyway, just use an array for
fetching it out of sqlite
13:21 < gummibaerchen> ok, great.  I think we agree in principle here.
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13:47 < gmilleramilar> how do you convert a big.Rat to a float64?
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14:48 < nickaugust> there was some talk on the mailing list about a yaml
parser.  anyone know if anything came of that?
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15:57 < nsf>
http://www.drdobbs.com/blog/archives/2010/08/c_compilation_s.html <- an
interesting article by Walter Bright (one of the D programming language author)
explaining why C++ compilers are slow
15:57 < nsf> :P
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15:58 < nsf> s/author/authors/
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16:20 < nbjoerg> because compiling C++ is turing complete
16:22 < nbjoerg> (3) is actually done by GCC
16:23 < nsf> yep, it's odd that Walter said he doesn't know any compiler
that does this
16:23 < nsf> because imho every big compiler does this
16:23 < nsf> these days
16:24 < nbjoerg> ack
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16:27 < nsf> nbjoerg: but I believe turing completeness is not an issue, D
has even more featureful template system than C++ and an ability to evaluate a
subset of D at compile-time, yet it compiles as fast as Go
16:27 < nbjoerg> D is not as context sensitive though
16:27 < nbjoerg> the combination is deadly
16:28 < nsf> yep
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17:50 < gmilleramilar> is there anyone else who thinks the gc compilers
should warn you when you shadow a variable or parameter?
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18:04 < nbjoerg> we had a discussion about that a while ago
18:04 < nbjoerg> and I had a ticket for it that was closed, IIRC
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18:10 < gmilleramilar> as in "its not a good idea, we're not going to do it"
18:10 < nbjoerg> ack
18:11 < gmilleramilar> wow, really?  I'm actually leaning the other way,
that it should be an error.
18:11 < vsmatck> why?
18:12 < gmilleramilar> well at least in the case of a local variable
shadowing a parameter or package global, 99 times out of 100 when I shadow it's a
mistake
18:12 < gmilleramilar> the 100th time, I can rename the local to something
else.
18:14 < nbjoerg> I was more concerned about the case of one local variable
shadowing another
18:15 < gmilleramilar> yeah, I'm not sure I really do that intentionally all
that often either...
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18:26 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fABQJ by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- Effective
Go: update for new http interface.
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19:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fAHvv by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- 6l, 8l: fix -K implementation
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19:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fALmt by [Robert Griesemer] in go/doc/ --
install.html: minor sentence fix
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23:18 < scyth> is there a way to implement binary protocols like spdy, in
go?
23:18 < scyth> since structures with bitfields are not possible
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23:21 < nbjoerg> well, Go supports at least parts of ASN.1
23:21 < nbjoerg> which can be a binary protocol
23:21 < nbjoerg> just a question of writing the marshelling/unmarshelling
code
23:21 < Eridius> scyth: you may not be able to declare a bitfield in a
struct, but that doesn't stop you from writing code that packs a bitfield into a
buffer in memory
23:22 < gmilleramilar> how do you convert a big.Rat to a float[32|64]
23:23 < scyth> Eridius, how exactly would you do that?  If you have a binary
stream and you want the value of first two bits?
23:26 < nbjoerg> scyth: read it as byte and use bit masks?
23:26 < exch> ^
23:26 < nbjoerg> &
23:27 < Eridius> scyth: offhand, in Go, I don't know as I don't have much
time to play with Go these days.  But I'd try to do what nbjoerg suggested
23:27 < nbjoerg> it's not like a C compiler does anything else
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23:31 < scyth> :)
23:31 < scyth> thanks
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--- Log closed Thu Sep 30 00:00:08 2010