--- Log opened Fri Oct 01 00:00:09 2010
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00:10 < nf_> scyth: yes
00:10 < nf_> scyth: we use go-protobuf internally at google
00:11 < msponer> Newbie syntax question: If a function returns a value, can
you assign it's address to a pointer on one line?  For example: var foo *Type =
&(Blah.Copy())
00:11 < scyth> nf_, yeah...  I got it working finally...  2 hours of trouble
though, only to find out that there was distro package of protoc installed which
didn't work with my go :)
00:11 < cbeck> Yes
00:11 < cbeck> msponer: ^^
00:15 < nf_> kronoz is gone now, but for anyone wanting to contribute to the
Go project, there are some issues on the tracker labelled 'HelpWanted' that could
use attention.  they should be pretty straightforward
00:16 < crazy2be> is it possible to modify an array as you are iterating
over it with a range clause?
00:16 < crazy2be> That is, make it so that rather than foo[bar], it's giving
you *foo[bar]
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00:23 < cbeck> crazy2be: Not that I know of, besides using the index/key
00:27 < msponer> I am having trouble understanding Address Operators-- what
is addressable.  I am trying to assign the address of a return value of a Copy()
function (from xml.StartElement) into a pointer variable.  The compiler is giving
me a "cannot take the address of x.StartElement.Copy()" when I try it on one line.
Are return values not addressable?
00:27 < msponer> It works as expected if I break this into two lines:
00:27 < msponer> temp := t.Copy()
00:28 < msponer> tStart = &temp
00:28 < msponer> But tStart = &(t.Copy()) gives an error.  Is it not
addressable or is my syntax wrong?
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00:33 < nf_> msponer: the return value of t.Copy is on the stack, so you
need to create a variable on the heap to take a pointer to it
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00:34 < nf_> any linux users care to try out these experimental Go binary
releases for me?  http://code.google.com/p/go/downloads/list
00:36 < msponer> nf_: Ok, thank you.  I was not sure if that was
automagically handled or not.
00:37 < scyth> nf_, can it wait for tomorrow?:) almost 3am here :)
00:37 <+iant> think of it this way: you can only take the address of
something which can appear on the left hand side of an assignment statement
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00:40 < msponer> iant: Got it.  So variables declared within a function are
on the heap?
00:40 <+iant> no, they are only put on the heap if you do in fact take their
address
00:42 < msponer> So the compiler looks forward and see's me taking it's
address on the next line, and silently converts the invisible declaration (from :=
) into a pointer with a malloc (excuse my C terms)?
00:42 <+iant> yoiu could think of it that way, sure
00:42 <+iant> the code is not actually compiled line by line
00:43 < msponer> So if I were to not do an &temp, the := declare/operator
would put it on the stack, right?
00:43 <+iant> right
00:43 < msponer> Ok. Great.  Thanks.  I believe my low level way of thinking
about programming is getting in my way here.
00:44 < scyth> nf_, it doesn't work here (binary release)
00:45 < nf_> scyth: what's the problem?
00:45 < scyth> nf_, can't execute binary
00:45 < scyth> 8g
00:46 < nf_> you're using a 32-bit system?
00:46 < nf_> i'll have to try fixing it in a 32-bit vm
00:46 < scyth> nf_, http://pastebin.com/K4y1gs0J
00:46 < scyth> here's strace
00:47 < nf_> i believe it's because the 8g/8l binaries are output as 64-bit
as they're built on a 64-bit system
00:47 < scyth> yeah
00:47 < scyth> dl/go/bin/8g: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1
(SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, not stripped
00:51 < scyth> 'night
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00:59 < exch> A nice addition for the Go image package perhaps?
http://code.google.com/speed/webp/
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01:01 < nf_> looks like a cool project
01:01 < nf_> hmm i have a long weekend coming up :)
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01:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fDfUT by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/5g/ --
code gen error for
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04:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fDtBA by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/pkg/fmt/
-- fmt: add Errorf helper function
04:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fDtBV by [Andrew Gerrand] in 4 subdirs of go/
-- Use Errorf where appropriate.
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04:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fDv86 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/ -- arm:
enable 9 more package tests
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04:41 < enferex> Is there not a const qualifier for function parameters?
04:43 < cbeck> there is not
04:44 < cbeck> You can pass by value if necessary
04:49 < nsf> enferex: Go doesn't have any type qualifiers at all
04:51 < enferex> Yes its all pass by value/copy, but what about pointers, I
want to pass a pointer and assure it never get manipulated.
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04:53 < nsf> you can't do that
04:54 < nsf> well, you can
04:54 < nsf> by hiding value behind interface with getters
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04:59 < enferex> gotcha
04:59 < enferex> thanks once again
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06:08 < uriel> 04:41 < enferex> Is there not a const qualifier for
function parameters?
06:08 < uriel> why on earth would anyone want that?
06:09 < Rugxulo> faster?
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06:09 < uriel> isn't it bad enough that such things got added to C and C++
(by people other than the inventors of C, obviously)
06:09 < uriel> Rugxulo: faster?  where is any evidence of that?
06:10 < Rugxulo> don't have a reference near by, lemme search ...
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06:14 < uriel> AFAIK 'const' is at best just a hint to the compiler
06:14 < uriel> and it causes all kinds of damage along the way
06:14 < Rugxulo> (from Oberon-07 report): "The new [const] parameter kind
makes it possible to protect the string from being altered without requiring a
copy operation."
06:16 < uriel> Oberon is not C or Go last i checked, I'm not as familiar
with it as I should, but I don't think Oberon strings, or the semantics of const
are equivalent to anyting in Go or C
06:17 < Rugxulo> I know, I'm just saying, if it was worthwhile there (to
them), then ....
06:17 < uriel> if you pass a pointer, and then don't touch/change the data,
it is pretty much the same
06:18 < nf_> pop quiz: what do you guys consider notable go projects?
06:18 < nf_> what non-core libraries and go programs do you use?
06:19 < nf_> Rugxulo: there are definite benefits to being able to dictate
immutability, but it comes at the cost of complexity
06:20 < nf_> Rugxulo: it was decided that const causes more problems than it
solves, so it implemented in go
06:20 < uriel> I like Gelo, but haven't had time to play with it as much as
I would like
06:21 < uriel> sre2 is nice, really looking forward to seeing it as part of
the distribution (although I hate PCRE syntax, but oh well)
06:21 < uriel> ken's C compilers ignore const, and nothing of value was
lost...
06:21 < uriel> (same goest for most other modifiers)
06:23 < nf_> uriel: i don't even understand gelo
06:23 < nf_> it looks...  clever?
06:24 < uriel> it is a bit tcl-like, rather neat
06:26 < uriel> I also like svgo, but i *hate* svg, so...  I'm ambibalent
06:28 < uriel> also, might end up using go-gtk, but i have been waiting and
hopping somebody will provide Tk bindings instead
06:28 < nf_> go-gtk uses unsafe in bad ways
06:29 < nf_> i wish gui toolkits weren't so awful
06:29 < nf_> bbl
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06:29 < uriel> can't blame them, having to deal with glib and gtk is already
psychologically unsafe
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09:31 < mpl> nf_: I've been using the bindings for gtk, sql and the plan 9
libs port.  and also gogallery but that's one of my pet projects, so doesn't
really count ;)
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15:03 < bortzmeyer> If I have to write "for complicated_statement; i < 0;
complicated_statement {" is there a way to write complicated_statement only once?
It has to run before each iteration.
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15:18 <+iant> bortzmeyer: no, the only way is to use a for loop with no
condition and a break statement
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15:23 < bortzmeyer> iant: OK, thanks :-(
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15:25 < cbeck> I didn't realize that Condition :== Expression, how does it
handle expressions that eval to a non boolean?
15:26 < cbeck> or does it?
15:27 <+iant> it handles them by reporting a type error
15:29 < napsy> iant: is there a plan when (if) gccgo will be included to the
main gcc distribution?
15:29 <+iant> it should be in the next gcc release, 4.6
15:29 < napsy> ok
15:29 <+iant> I plan to get it committed to mainline this month
15:30 < napsy> nice
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15:32 < napsy> what about the gccgo garbage collector, it it ready for
production use?
15:32 <+iant> yes
15:32 <+iant> it's the same as the 6g/8g garbage collector
15:33 < napsy> ok
15:37 < mpl> good news :)
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16:06 < nickaugust> can I read each character as its typed to stdin or does
it have to be by lines?
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16:11 < exch> You should be able to read individual bytes using
bufio.NewReader(os.Stdin).  Don't quote me on that though
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16:22 < cbeck> nickaugust: Usually you can't, the os doesn't return control
until it hits a newline
16:22 < cbeck> I think ReadLine and the like let you get around that though
16:23 < exch> ah right.  stdin is line-buffered iirc
16:24 < exch> presumably ReadLine does some syscall/ioctl stuff which makes
that possible?  You can do that in Go. Wouldn't need to include the full library
bindings for readline
16:25 < cbeck> Maybe, but it'd be quite os dependant, and I wouldn't know
where to start
16:25 < taruti> cbeck: I have some getline code if you are interested
16:26 < taruti> http://bitbucket.org/taruti/getpass/src/tip/getpass.go
16:26 < cbeck> I'll take a look, hanks
16:27 < cbeck> ^thanks
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16:33 < nickaugust> yeah i use readline now but its overkill for what i
want.
16:36 < exch> I think the gist of this particular case is to set stdin to
'raw' mode, read a character and set it back to normal mode when you're done.
16:38 < nickaugust> exch: hmm..  i'll have a look at that.  thanks
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16:41 < exch> Here's a bit of indepth TTY stuff incase you're that
massochistic :) http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/tty/index.php
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16:44 < nickaugust> http://wiki.tcl.tk/14693 seems to be a simple overview
as well..  in tcl context.  looks like you can use the stty program to turn raw
mode on and off.  "stty raw" and "stty -raw".  id assume theres corrisponding
system calls
16:44 < nickaugust> exch: thanks
16:45 < exch> Yea, i'm looking for the syscalls to go with that, but no
cookie so far
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16:46 < nickaugust> does termio/getpass do something similar to blank out
passwords?
16:46 < nickaugust> taruti: ^^
16:47 < nickaugust> s/termio/termios
16:47 < cbeck> exch: Maybe read in binary mode?
16:47 < nickaugust> cbeck: what function do you use to do that?
16:50 < cbeck> nickaugust: os.Open with O_NDELAY maybe?
16:50 < nickaugust> hmmm
16:51 * cbeck -> meeting
16:55 < taruti> nickaugust: it has both password reading and with echo
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17:02 < nickaugust> exch: looks like readline builds on termcap
17:04 < exch> hmm
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17:10 < nickaugust> exch: from the mailing list per iant:
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/7a87d8cf4ea2b0d7
17:11 < nickaugust> im just going to call stty because im not really
concerned with portiblity at this point
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17:12 < exch> Having the termios interface in syscall would be nice
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17:13 < nbjoerg> it should be properly abstracted
17:18 < nickaugust> also: http://www.cs.uleth.ca/~holzmann/C/system/ttyraw.c
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17:27 < skelterjohn> a little light reading?
17:29 < nickaugust> :) try to decide the best way to enable character based
input from stdin rather than line based.  which it seems is a function of the os
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17:38 < felicity> hey, i'm new to Go but not programming.what fuction can
one use to get user input, a kind of like getchar equivalent?
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17:40 < exch> check out the fmt package.  it has a few Scan functions which
may be of use
17:41 < felicity> exch: okay thanks
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18:12 < willdye> "To locate a memory leak, use the following process: 1.
Find the memory leak [...]" </
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms859415.aspx >
18:13 < bartbes> hehe
18:13 < nsf> :D
18:14 < bartbes> "To create a program, use the folloiwing process: 1.  Write
the code 2.  Create all assets 3.  Submit your code to us 4.  Cry in a corner
while we steal everything"
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18:27 < MaybeSo> "5.  all your assets are belong to us" ?
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18:35 < Soultaker> lol @ willdye
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18:36 < Soultaker> I never understood why a big company like Microsoft
cannot afford to hire a couple of semi-decent tech writers to clean up the mess
that is the MSDN.
18:40 < nbjoerg> they have a lot of decent tech writers
18:40 < nbjoerg> but they tend to be busy with more important stuff
18:40 < Soultaker> huh, the MSDN is usually my go-to place when I need to
know something about the Windows API
18:40 < Soultaker> what's more important than that?
18:42 < Soultaker> (if I got a $1 for every piece of sample code I came
across that just doesn't compile...  well I wouldn't be rich, but I could buy a
lot of coffee!)
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19:12 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vNXA0NA/GoGC.png
19:12 < nsf> Go's garbage collector :)
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19:13 < nsf> parsing 10 files at a time, doing that 500 times, saving all
the data (heap is growing)
19:14 < nsf> I can imagine running a first person shooter with that GC
19:14 < nsf> :D
19:14 < nsf> on the other hand
19:14 < nsf> if it won't allocate on a drawing loop
19:14 < nsf> GC shouldn't run
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19:25 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vNXA0Yw/GoGC2.png <- freeing data every
100 iterations
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19:26 < nsf> overall is better, but far from smooth
19:26 < nsf> expected though..
19:27 < nsf> GC pause time depends a lot on a heap size and generally pretty
high :(
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19:37 < nsf> btw, other than GC Go is surprizingly fast
19:38 < nsf> parses all these files: find $GOROOT/src -name "*.go" in 2.0
secs
19:38 < nsf> on a single 2.0ghz core
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19:46 < nsf> or I was using python for too long
19:46 < nsf> :D
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20:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/fF1Ow by [Russ Cox] in go/src/ -- Make.pkg:
remove .so before installing new one
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21:03 < napsy> http://gist.github.com/606863
21:03 < napsy> if I run this the program blocks
21:03 < napsy> am I reading the process output the wrong way?
21:05 < Soultaker> I think r should first be initialized somehow
21:06 < nsf> napsy: use exec.
21:06 < Soultaker> for example, with a pipe.
21:06 < nsf> it automatically creates pipes for you
21:06 < nsf> I can give you an example actually
21:06 < nsf> sec
21:07 < nsf> napsy: if i % 100 == 0 {
21:07 < nsf> oops
21:07 < nsf>
http://github.com/nsf/gocode/blob/master/testing/utils/rename/main.go#L48
21:07 < nsf> here it is
21:08 < nsf> exec.Run returns a proc handle (sort of) and if you're passing
exec.Pipe to it, this handle contains created pipes
21:09 < nsf> then you can do whatever you want
21:09 < Soultaker> B
21:09 < Soultaker> oops
21:09 < Soultaker> what I meant to say was: also don't read data a byte at a
time, it's going to be slow.
21:09 < napsy> nsf: thanks
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21:44 < cbeck> Hmm, can someone else using linux/amd64 pull and rebuild?  my
build is failing on bug260
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21:48 <+iant> cbeck: worked for me
21:49 <+iant> ....and there is no bug260.go
21:50 < nsf> http://github.com/tav/go/blob/master/test/bugs/bug260.go
21:51 <+iant> whoops, sorry, I was looking in fixedbugs
21:51 <+iant> bug260 is supposed to fail
21:51 <+iant> that is to say, expected to fail
21:51 < nsf> indeed
21:55 < nsf> but if it's really failing then there is a bug in a build
system :)
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21:56 < nsf> which seems unlikely
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21:58 < jesusaurus> cbeck: it built fine for me on amd64
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22:30 < scyth> http://pastebin.com/SHTuD11d -- is there a better way to
extract value from an unknown/runtime struct type, by knowing field name within
the struct?
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22:40 < exch> You don't have to pass unknownStruct to NewValue() as a
pointer.  that should save you 1 Indirect
22:41 < exch> You should do some error checking though..  an indirect may
yield another ptr value or something entirely different depending on what is
passed into the function
22:41 < exch> If you can guarantee it will always be a struct, then that
will save you some hassle I suppose
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22:48 < scyth> exch, I skipped error checking for the sake of readability in
this example.  I know I can pass structure and not pointer, but in that case I
won't be able to modify the values in original struct
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22:50 < scyth> I don't know how fast Indirect() is, but I figure it's
faster/cheaper than copying back and forth
22:50 < scyth> copying the whole struct, that is
22:52 < exch> good point
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--- Log closed Sat Oct 02 00:00:09 2010