--- Log opened Thu Oct 14 00:00:10 2010
00:01 * nsf sighs
00:02 < nsf> Builder section is finished
00:02 < nsf> 1590 lines of code already
00:02 < nsf> :P
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00:07 * nsf sighs
00:07 < nsf> two more small sections are finished
00:07 < nsf> one to go
00:07 < nsf> :P
00:09 <@adg> nsf: what are you building?
00:09 < nsf> LLVM Go bindings
00:09 < nsf> almost finished Core.h
00:10 < Soultaker> so an interface to access LLVM from Go, not compile Go
programs with GCC Ãà la gcc-go?
00:11 < nsf> it's just an interface to the library, yes
00:12 < Soultaker> what do you plan to use it for?
00:12 < nsf> I don't plan to use it
00:12 < nsf> well, I want to port my toy language
00:12 < nsf> but no plans really
00:12 < Soultaker> oh.
00:12 < nsf> my toy language is written using ragel, lemon and llvm
00:12 < Soultaker> maybe if SWIG had support for Go porting libraries would
be easier.
00:12 < nsf> ragel has support for Go in trunk
00:13 < nsf> SWIG has support for Go
00:13 < exch> it does
00:13 < Soultaker> ah, do you use it?
00:13 < nsf> I've ported lemon few days ago
00:13 < nsf> and now llvm
00:13 < nsf> SWIG doesn't do any magic
00:13 < nsf> it requires a lot of setup
00:13 < nsf> sometimes porting manually is more time efficient
00:13 < nsf> I've spent 7 hours on Core.h
00:14 < nsf> and that's almost all of the port
00:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g0YqW by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/bufio/ --
bufio: bulletproof UnreadRune
00:15 < Soultaker> tangentially related: Googling for Go and SWIG I stumbled
upon this: http://www.cs.ucla.edu/classes/spring10/cs131/hw/hw6.html
00:16 < Soultaker> I wish my crappy university had assignments like these.
00:17 < nsf> and..  I'm done with Core.h
00:17 * nsf sighs
00:17 < nsf> that was a lot
00:17 < nsf> 1665 lines of code in 7 hours :)
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00:21 < nsf> http://github.com/nsf/gollvm
00:21 < nsf> here it is
00:21 < nsf> untested, but compiles
00:21 < nsf> time to sleep for me
00:22 < nsf> contains few TODO items, but mostly done :)
00:22 < nsf> lol
00:22 < nsf> github shows 1666 lines of code
00:22 < nsf> >8-)
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00:26 < KirkMcDonald> Clearly the logo for this project needs to be
Tolkien-themed.
00:26 < nsf> hehe
00:35 < nsf> sweet dreams
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00:40 < raylu> is there a string library built into go?  in particular, a
string tokenizer
00:40 < raylu> or at least index()?
00:40 < raylu> wait, nevermind
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00:52 < skelterjohn> raylu: import "strings"
00:52 < raylu> yeah, got it :P
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01:17 < uriel> Soultaker: I wonder if the work resulting from that
assignment has been released, might make an interesting reading..
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01:29 < skelterjohn> never heard of vala.  sounds OOish
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02:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g1674 by [Evan Shaw] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- smtp: new package
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03:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g19ib by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/misc/goplay/
-- misc: add goplay
03:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g1aNZ by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/
-- release.2010-10-13
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04:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g1byS by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- tag
release.2010-10-13
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04:43 < unRuhe> does underscore have a special meaning as indentifier?
04:45 <@adg> unRuhe: it's the "nil assignment" identifier
04:45 <@adg> it can't actually be used as a name
04:45 <@adg> in an assignment, it throws the value away
04:45 <@adg> eg, this is a noop:
04:45 <@adg> _ = 1
04:45 <@adg> also it can be used to import a package for its side effects
only
04:45 <@adg> import _ "foo"
04:46 <@adg> will cause any of foo's init code to run, without introducing
it to the local namespace
04:50 < unRuhe> yay clike code obfuscation
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05:02 < unRuhe> oh I think I got it, when a func returns multiple values i
can ignore the ones I'm not interested in with _
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05:02 <@adg> yep
05:02 < unRuhe> then okay, thank u
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06:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g1iCi by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/doc/ -- doc:
add The Expressiveness of Go talk to docs.html
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08:40 < mpl> hi.  how can I get a writer on a slice of bytes?  kind of like
the buffer in bytes, only non buffered?
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08:54 <@adg> mpl: you mean one that will write to a preallocated byte slice?
08:55 <@adg> mpl: a bytes.Buffer does just write to a []byte, it just
handles resizing as well
08:55 <@adg> if you know exactly how much you want to write, you can do: buf
:= bytes.NewBuffer(make([]byte, SIZE))
08:56 <@adg> if you don't write more than SIZE bytes to buf, then all that
does is write straight into the []byte
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09:50 < soul9> goinstall is broken with C bindings?  :(
09:50 < exch> yup
09:50 < nsf> goinstall is broken!
09:51 < soul9> it isn't!  ..  ;)
09:52 < soul9> rsc's sqlite does seem to be broken tho
09:53 < exch> what part?
09:53 < soul9> gimme 1s, i'm updating my golang tree to see if it is a bug
with my go version..
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09:58 < soul9> exch: http://pastie.org/1220349
09:59 < exch> oh right
10:00 < exch> that was from a recent go change
10:00 < exch> You can report it as an issue
http://code.google.com/p/gosqlite/issues/list
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10:03 < soul9> yep
10:05 < exch> looks like someone already did
10:08 < soul9> cool!
10:08 * soul9 bashes himself for not even looking at the issues
10:09 < soul9> patch works fine too
10:12 < exch> Does anyone here use OSX?  If so, is the 'pkg-config' tool
available on it?
10:15 < exch> nvm.  seems it's available for osx, but not there by default
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11:00 < mpl> adg: yes, that's what I meant, and I did try to write to
bytes.buffer but it didn't seem to work.  I'm gonna retry.  thx for the
confirmation.
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11:23 < mpl> adg: I'm doing that:
11:23 < mpl> var out []byte = make([]byte, 24)
11:23 < mpl> w := bytes.NewBuffer(out)
11:23 < mpl> var foo []byte = []byte{84, 240, 4, 66, 80, 4, 79}
11:23 < mpl> w.Write(foo)
11:23 < mpl> for i:=0; i<len(out); i++ {
11:23 < mpl> print(out[i], "\n")
11:23 < mpl> }
11:23 < mpl> and all I get is zeroes when printing it.
11:24 < mpl> what am I doing wrong?
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11:59 < mpl> anyone?
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12:01 < nsf> is it possible to override linker for CGO lib
12:01 < nsf> I need to use g++
12:01 < nsf> because I'm linking with C++ static libs
12:02 < nsf> Make.pkg mentions HOST_LD
12:02 < nsf> but does not uses it
12:02 < nsf> s/uses/use/
12:02 < nsf> instead it uses HOST_CC for linking
12:02 < nsf> I think it's a bug
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12:11 < nsf> -lstdc++ LDFLAG solved the problem
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12:43 < HollyRain> I've used time.Sleep() but the program isn't "stopped"
12:44 < nsf> how did you call it?
12:44 < nsf> Sleep(1)?
12:44 < HollyRain> :)
12:44 < nsf> I'm serious
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12:45 < HollyRain> I used a long nanosecond
12:45 < nsf> hm..
12:45 < HollyRain> I've tested with 10000000
12:45 < nsf> that's 10ms
12:45 < nsf> try 1e9
12:45 < HollyRain> ok
12:46 < HollyRain> I though that it was enough long, thanks
12:47 < HollyRain> now yes
12:47 < nsf> ;)
12:48 < HollyRain> 1e9 follows being short but with 1e10 is enough right, at
least for testing
12:49 < nsf> 1e9 should be one second
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14:24 < exch> mpl: var b []byte; buf := bytes.NewBuffer(b);
buf.Write([]byte{1, 2, 3, 4, 5}); fmt.Printf("%v\n", buf.Bytes())
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14:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g1NA2 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/ --
arm: adjust recover for new reflect.call
14:46 < wrtp> exch,mpl: or just: var buf bytes.Buffer;
buf.Write([]byte{1,2,3,4,5}; fmt.Printf("%v\n", buf.Bytes())
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14:51 < wrtp> oops russ said that
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15:07 < nsf> nice, LLVM Go dies on executionengine.Dispose() with segfault
15:07 < nsf> for some unknown reason
15:07 < nsf> I think it has something to do with dynamic linking of the jit
engine
15:08 < nsf> on the other hand it's statically linked :\
15:10 < nsf> other than that it works, yay!
15:10 < nsf> compiled factorial function and executed it via JIT
successfully
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15:11 < nsf> oh that, also JIT may kill Go
15:11 < nsf> for some unknown reason
15:12 < nsf> or not!
15:12 < nsf> found the bug
15:12 < nsf> yay, it works!
15:12 < nsf> :D
15:13 < mpl> wrtp: yep, I was impatient so I mailed go-nuts.  thx anyway.
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15:16 < nsf>
http://github.com/nsf/gollvm/blob/master/examples/factorial/factorial.go
15:16 < nsf> :P
15:16 * nsf sighs
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15:30 < uriel> nsf: cool, congrats
15:31 < nsf> uriel: thanks
15:32 < nsf> I've dropped an announce to the ML
15:32 < nsf> maybe someone will want to try to implement Go using LLVM :)
15:33 < uriel> nsf: remember to post to http://reddit.com/r/golang/ ;)
15:33 < nsf> I'm not a reddit user, really
15:34 < nsf> and LLVM bindings aren't that ready yet :)
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15:41 < nsf> it's team fortress 2 time :) see ya
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15:43 < uriel> by the way:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dr6r4/
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16:30 < hallas> greets all
16:31 < nickaugust> how can I get at the methods of a *reflect.StructValue??
16:35 < exch> rt := myval.Type(); nummethods := rt.NumMethod(); for i := 0;
i < nummethods; i++ { myfunc := myval.Method(i); ...  }
16:36 < nickaugust> exch: ah, I see.  thanks I'll try that.
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16:37 < hallas> is goplay supposed to installed after hg pull && hg update?
16:38 < HollyRain> goplay is not installed in $GOROOT/bin
16:38 < HollyRain> at least not in the mine
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16:38 < exch> It's in $GOROOT/misc
16:38 < HollyRain> the another one was installed there
16:39 < exch> looks like you need to build it manually
16:39 < HollyRain> the another one is gotry :)
16:40 < hallas> cant find gotry either
16:40 < hallas> :-(
16:40 < HollyRain> try: ls -lF $GOROOT/bin/gotry
16:41 < hallas> nothing there
16:41 < hallas> except for the regular stuff
16:41 < exch> it's in my go/bin
16:42 < exch> gotry that is
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16:42 < hallas> found it lol ..  im blind
16:42 < hallas> ;)
16:44 < HollyRain> for a function that returns a boolean there are times
that you also need to get the error (for false), so
16:44 < HollyRain> should be created another function that returns a boolean
and the error?
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16:45 < HollyRain> because if the error is handled from one only function is
very heavy at using it
16:46 < hallas> only return the error, and have it be nil if boolean would
have been true
16:48 < HollyRain> good idea, thx
16:48 < hallas> no problem, its how the packages are
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17:03 < raylu> i'm using crypto/tls and i sometimes get "local error: bad
certificate" when calling Dial.  is there a way to ignore this error?
17:04 < hallas> only sometimes?
17:05 < exch> I've been getting that to, but I have to admit that I know
f00k all about the inner workings of TLS and the way it deals with certificates.
Specifically on the client end where explicitly specifying a cert file is not
necessary
17:06 < exch> I've just been following the client/server implementations in
the HTTP package as a guide.  I can only guess that the client needs to have the
server certificate stored somewhere for it to work
17:07 < raylu> hallas: depending on which server i use
17:07 < hallas> anyone knows how to format the permission int32 when using
ioutil.WriteFile?
17:07 < raylu> tls.Dial for irc.freenode.net:7000 is fine, but for
irc.rizon.net:6697 is not
17:07 < hallas> i've simply tried 0600, but thats seems rather stupid :p
17:07 < exch> Some server's may use self-signed certificates as far as I
understand it.  Those do not necessarily have to be valid
17:08 < exch> hallas: 0600 or 0666 or whatever is correct
17:08 < exch> you can leave it 0 if you want.  I believe it will then
default to 0666
17:08 < hallas> yeah
17:09 < exch> The leading 0 is a bit pointless though.  I'm guessing it's
just for visual purposes only.  to make it clear what you intend
17:09 <+iant> the leading 0 makes it an octal number
17:09 <+iant> 0666 != 666
17:10 < hallas> the type says int32
17:10 < exch> really?  wow.  learned something new
17:10 < exch> hmm
17:10 <+iant> 0666 by itself is an untyped constant
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17:11 < skelterjohn> why does that make it octal?  that seems very strange
to me
17:11 < hallas> exch: i thought for a second you were mocking me there
17:11 < hallas> :)
17:11 < exch> hehe
17:11 < hallas> but I understand you were talking to iant -D
17:11 <+iant> skelterjohn: it's a carry-over from C; there was a discussion
early on in the mailing list about changing that, but the decision then was to
keep it
17:11 < skelterjohn> maybe like, o666 for octal would be easier for reading
comprehension
17:11 < skelterjohn> so it goes.
17:11 <+iant> several other languages use it too
17:12 <+iant> but, yeah, looked at in isolation it's a bit weird
17:12 < hallas> iant is this only for int32?
17:12 <+iant> hallas: constants have no type in Go
17:12 < hallas> but whats in the constant :) ?
17:12 <+iant> they only acquire a type when they are assigned to a variable
or passed to a function
17:12 <+iant> the abstract number octal 666
17:12 < hallas> ok
17:13 < hallas> its somewhere in the source I guess?
17:13 <+iant> http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#constants
17:13 < skelterjohn> iant: maybe he means "a := 0666", what is "a"'s type?
17:13 <+iant> actually I guess that link isn't too helpful
17:13 <+iant> skelterjohn: int
17:14 <+iant> when there is no other type to assign, an integer becomes
"int" and a floating point number becomes "float"
17:14 < skelterjohn> right
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17:14 < hallas> by abstract octal number, what do you mean?
17:15 < skelterjohn> the only time i don't like that getting type int is
when i do something like "for i:=0; i<anInt32; i++ { ..."
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17:15 < hallas> its some special treatment in the compiler?
17:16 <+iant> hallas: I mean it is simply a number with that value; it has
no type; there are no limits to the size of constants; they only acquire a type
and limits when assigned to a variable or passed to a function
17:16 < skelterjohn> i tend to think that comparisons between any numerical
types should be allowed
17:16 <+iant> skelterjohn: at least the current rules are simple
17:16 < skelterjohn> i agree
17:16 < skelterjohn> this is not a strong opinion
17:16 < hallas> iant: but doesnt this mean that I can omit the 0?  and just
write 666 ?
17:17 < skelterjohn> 0666 != 666
17:17 < skelterjohn> so, no
17:17 <+iant> hallas: the leading 0 means that the remaining digits are
interpreted as octal digits
17:17 <+iant> rather than decimal digits
17:17 <+iant> this has nothing to do with the type of the constant; it
can't, since the constant has no type
17:18 < hallas> can I type a := 0666 and use a as 0600?  I guess no
17:18 < hallas> ops
17:18 < hallas> as 0666 * ofc
17:18 < skelterjohn> that question doesn't really make sense to me, hallas
17:18 < skelterjohn> 0666 is a number with some value
17:19 < skelterjohn> its value is different than 666
17:19 < skelterjohn> same way that binary 101 is decimal 5, not decimal 101
17:19 < exch> octal 666 == decimal 438
17:19 < hallas> yeah ok
17:19 < hallas> ofc
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17:20 < hallas> then ill simply put in 438 ;)
17:21 < skelterjohn> sometimes it's easier to let the compiler do the
conversion for you
17:21 <+iant> It would be interesting to memorize the common permission
numbers in decimal, and start using them in code
17:21 <+iant> that would really confuse people reading the program
17:21 < skelterjohn> octal and hex are useful when you are trying to write
specific values to specific bytes, since the characters and bytes align
17:21 < hallas> exactly iant ;)
17:22 < exch> println(0666) prints 438.  You don't have to worry about
conversions.  Internally, numbers are all the same to Go
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17:22 < hallas> and iant, you said 0666 is a constant of sorts?  are all
octals?  or only the permissions?
17:22 < hallas> skelterjohn: if they are constants, the compiler wont have
to convert anything
17:23 <+iant> In Go, all numeric constants are untyped constants
17:23 < skelterjohn> hallas: the compiler has to convert whatever you type
into binary
17:23 <+iant> when the Go compiler reads an integer literal, a leading 0
causes it to treat the remaining digits as octal digits
17:23 < hallas> skelterjohn: overhead is the same right?
17:23 <+iant> in the end, the Go compiler gets a numeric value in binary
17:23 < hallas> skelterjohn: unless I type it in binary ,)
17:23 <+iant> yes, the overhead is the same
17:23 <+iant> your questions suggest that you have an odd perspective on the
language
17:24 < skelterjohn> hallas: yes, but if you really want whatever 0666 is in
octal, figuring out that it is 438 in decimal and writing that instead seems like
more trouble than writing 0666
17:24 <+iant> I'm having a hard time translating them into my world view
17:24 <+iant> Go is a compiled language
17:24 < hallas> skelterjohn: trueness
17:24 <+iant> only the compiler ever sees the character '0', '6', '6', '6'
17:24 <+iant> when the program runs, those characters have been converted to
a number
17:25 <+iant> the number appears as an immediate constant in an instruction,
or as a value stored in some memory location
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17:28 < hallas> iant: of course everything is numbers, but how the compiler
interprets them makes out their value, right?  im just trying to get smarter on
how the Go language is built.  For example, I've learned the the preceeding 0
indicates and octal
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17:28 < hallas> an*
17:28 <+iant> http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Integer_literals
17:28 < hallas> and at what level in the compiler this distinction is made
17:28 <+iant> the lexer
17:29 < hallas> could just as easily have been in the type checker, right?
17:29 < hallas> if an octal type had existed?
17:29 <+iant> no, not really
17:29 <+iant> well, OK, I guess you could design a language that way, but I
think it would be unusual
17:29 <+iant> anyhow, in Go, constants have no types
17:29 <+iant> which is so that you can assign a constant to a variable of
any numeric type
17:30 <+iant> this is to avoid the automatic conversions of integer types
found in C/C++
17:30 <+iant> because experience has showed that those can confuse
programmers
17:30 < hallas> alright
17:31 < hallas> thanks for the talk m8
17:32 < uriel> hallas: the 0 prefix for octal, just like hte 0x prefix for
hexadecimal, is just a question of notation, it does not affect in any way types,
or what code is generated or anything else
17:33 < hallas> uriel: dont worry i perfectly understand now, just didnt
think of the 0 for octal like 0x for hex
17:34 < uriel> some times it is convenient to enter numbers in octal (as
with permissions, which have a very long history in Unix), or in hex, decimal is
the default, but they are all equivalent and produce the same results, it is just
a question of how you type (as in 'with your keyboard', not as in variable type)
the numbers in
17:34 < uriel> ok, if you undersand 0x for hex, then 0 for octal is exactly
the same
17:34 < exch> All one needs now is a 0b for binary :)
17:36 < skelterjohn> 1<<3+0<<2+0<<1+1<<0 = 9 :)
17:36 < skelterjohn> maybe a little verbose
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18:03 < hallas> worst thing about the template package is that I cant name
my actual template "template" :p
18:03 < hallas> gotta use templ or tpl ^^
18:03 <+iant> you could import tmpl "template"
18:03 < hallas> !!!
18:04 < hallas> ty
18:06 < uriel> call your template t
18:07 < uriel> why do people love to use such long names for everything?  :(
18:07 < exch> t is nice and descriptive :p
18:11 < uriel> also concise and unambiguous retarding spelling
18:11 < exch> I wouldn't say unambiguous :p
18:12 < hallas> what do you guys use for editing?
18:13 < hallas> and what systems are you running?
18:13 < exch> gedit on arch linux
18:13 <+iant> emacs, Ubuntu, Fedora
18:13 < exch> arch linux with Openbox that is
18:13 < cbeck> Trying to start an editor war?
18:13 < nsf> vim, Arch Linux
18:14 < mpl> acme, Debian
18:14 < cbeck> emacs, ubuntu server
18:14 < nsf> gathering statistics
18:14 < nsf> :P
18:14 < Venom_X> emacs, osx
18:15 < hallas> using eclipse with go plugin on ubuntu
18:15 < uriel> hallas: acme http://acme.cat-v.org
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18:22 < skelterjohn> xcode
18:23 < mpl> pfff, I can't believe no one said notepad.
18:23 < skelterjohn> you'd have to be using windows for that
18:28 < raylu> fixed the tls error:
http://github.com/raylu/rbot/commit/41826d3b245050a1db0c27ec5b40015a1735e18b
18:29 < raylu> wow, only one vim user besides myself?
18:30 < nsf> out of 9, yes
18:30 < nsf> 2 vim users, 2 emacs users, 1 gedit user, 2 acme users, 1 xcode
user and 1 eclipse user
18:31 < bartbes> +1 vim
18:32 < nsf> well, it's the known fact that the most popular editor in the
open source community is vim
18:32 < nsf> for some reason
18:33 < nsf> I guess it wins over emacs because it's small and more
accessible
18:33 < hallas> I guess I like vim most of the other If I had to choose
18:33 < nsf> I don't like vim's code, I like emacs' code, but at the same
time I prefer to use vim :)
18:34 < hallas> first year of university we had to use it at the uni's
terminals :-(
18:34 < hallas> emacs that is
18:36 < skelterjohn> how do i make fmt.Printf display a float without using
scientific notation?
18:36 < skelterjohn> that is, -10200 vs -1.02e4
18:36 < nsf> it should do that by default
18:36 < nsf> with small numbers
18:36 < nsf> fmt.Printf("%f\n", myFloat)
18:36 < uriel> nsf: vim might be many things, but 'small' is not one of them
18:36 < nsf> -10200 is small enough
18:37 < nsf> uriel: it's smaller and lighter than emacs
18:37 < skelterjohn> ah, it was println that was doing that,not printf
18:37 < skelterjohn> so, there we go
18:37 < skelterjohn> ty
18:38 < nsf> on my distro emacs takes 90 megs
18:38 < nsf> gvim + vim-runtime take 27 megs
18:39 < nsf> that's the reason why sometimes vim gets installed by default
18:40 < uriel> but emacs probably includes tons of elisp extenssions, many
more than the crap included in the vim-rumtime (which is ridiculously bloated and
useless)
18:40 < nsf> and as a result gets more attention
18:40 < nsf> uriel: hahaha
18:40 < uriel> in any case, this debate is offtopic and, well, it is a
fucking editor flamewar, so pretty fucking retarded
18:40 < nsf> you're so religious about that
18:40 < uriel> read some 'vim script' code some time....  the nightmares
will haunt you for decades
18:41 < nsf> personally I don't care what people use, and use what I like
myself
18:41 < nsf> vim script is quite simple
18:42 < MaksimBurnin> hallas: gedit on fedora
18:42 < hallas> MaksimBurnin: sweet
18:43 < exch> yay, another gedit user to back me up :)
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18:45 < uriel> ugh
18:46 < nickaugust> sam -d!  :)
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18:48 < MaksimBurnin> exch: i think we both was not forced to use vim at
university and we are not a Stallman's fan-boys :-D
18:49 < exch> hehe indeed
18:50 < skelterjohn> if go + drawing stuff worked decently we could make our
own editor
18:50 < uriel> skelterjohn: what doesn't work decently about drawing stuff?
18:50 < skelterjohn> I still get "unsupported Xauth" when i try to use
exp/draw/x11.NewWindow
18:51 < uriel> and there was somebody writting a text editor in Go (inspired
in part by sam/acme)
18:51 < nsf> skelterjohn: just use something like gdk/gtk
18:51 < uriel> skelterjohn: did you report the bug?  because I don't get
that error
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18:51 < nsf> x11 is a pain in the ass if used directly
18:51 < skelterjohn> i've reported the bug
18:51 < uriel> or sdl, or a hundred other things
18:51 < uriel> nsf: er., I don't think you know what exp/draw/x11 is
18:51 < uriel> skelterjohn: link?
18:51 < skelterjohn> i've been told that it's cause macs are weird, and i
should reopen the ticket if i can find someone else who gets that same bug
18:51 < nsf> uriel: I know what x11 is
18:51 < uriel> nsf: it certainly it is not using x11 directly
18:52 < nickaugust> uriel: do you remeber the name of that project?
18:52 < nsf> well, for an editor drawing is not enough
18:52 < uriel> exp/draw/x11 is just an implementation of exp/draw using x11
as backend
18:52 < nsf> people will complain about interaction with their window
managers
18:52 < nsf> etc
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18:52 < nsf> and using here x11 directly isn't a good idea :)
18:52 < exch> that's their problem :p
18:52 < exch> nobody is forced to use your editor
18:53 < skelterjohn> uriel: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=924
18:53 < nsf> yeah, sure, just write an editor for yourself
18:54 < uriel> skelterjohn: you didn't answer adg's questions
18:54 < skelterjohn> ah, that is true
18:54 < skelterjohn> i skimmed to the part where i was asked to reproduce it
elsewhere
18:56 < skelterjohn> not sure how to check what version of XQuartz i'm
using...
18:57 < skelterjohn> nvm
18:58 < nickaugust> uriel: do you recall who was working on a sam/acme type
editor?
18:59 < uriel> nickaugust: was some guy at google, the 'good math/bad math'
guy I think, (or whatever his blog was called)
18:59 < skelterjohn> uriel: I just fixed the issue.  heh.
18:59 < skelterjohn> awesome.
19:00 < nickaugust> uriel: ok ill check it out.  thanks
19:01 < skelterjohn> commented about what the problem was in the issue, if
you're curious
19:01 < skelterjohn> stupid stuff.
19:01 < uriel> nickaugust: I think he mentioned it in the go-nuts list some
months ago
19:02 < uriel> WTF?  you can change ~ on OSX?  that is just fucked up
19:02 < skelterjohn> haha
19:03 < skelterjohn> i redefined HOME in .profile
19:03 < skelterjohn> nothing to do with OSX.  just bash.
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19:07 < skelterjohn> i can finally check out the rog-go stuff@
19:07 < skelterjohn> !
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19:12 < hallas> anyone experienced with using a map with .repeated section
in the template package?
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19:15 < hallas> nevermind :)
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19:53 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g2aCm by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/log/ -- log:
delete deprecated functionality
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20:07 < nsf> has anyone tried compiling gollvm factorial example and running
it?
20:07 < nsf> I've received strange bug report via mail
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20:16 < nickaugust> how do I do reflectType.Method(x).Func.Call() to call a
function that takes no arguments?  I've tried passing nil and []reflect.Value{}
and also making a zero length slice of type reflect.Value..  the func def asks for
one argument (in []Value)
20:17 < exch> the receiver of the method possibly
20:17 < exch> as in the t in 'func (t T) MyFunc(){}'
20:17 < nickaugust> s/function that takes no argument/method that takes not
argument
20:18 < nickaugust> hmmm let me try that...
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20:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g2cAE by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ --
syscall: fix arm networking
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20:40 < nsf> -rwxr-xr-x 1 nsf nsf 12360173 Окт 15 02:38
/home/nsf/go/pkg/linux_386/cgo_llvm.so
20:40 < nsf> hehe now we're talking
20:41 < nsf> before add ExecutionEngine it was like 2 megs :D
20:41 < nsf> s/add/adding/
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20:45 < TheMue> nsf: Even if I've currently have no direct usage for it your
effort sounds really interesting.
20:46 < nsf> :)
20:46 * TheMue hopes to do more Go coding starting next week, when he delivered
his book for reviewing
20:47 < photron> 12mb just for bindings?  crazy stuff
20:47 < nsf> photron: no, LLVM lib is linked statically in the same .so
20:48 < nsf> it is bindings + llvm lib
20:48 < photron> oh
20:49 < nsf> I don't like the idea of having two .so, one for bindings and
one for the lib, and if it's possible I put them into a single one
20:49 < nsf> but not all libraries support static linking
20:49 < nsf> :\
20:50 < nsf> mostly LGPL ones don't like that >8-)
20:51 < TheMue> Hehe, just writing about this channel in my book.
20:51 < photron> well, doesn't lgpl allow it when you provide to other
object files used to build the resulting lib to allow relinking...  or something
like that?
20:52 < nsf> photron: it allows, yeah
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20:52 < nsf> but for some reason programmers who write LGPL libs think that
their libs will be linked dynamically always
20:52 < nsf> personally I don't like dynamic linking for one reason
20:53 < nsf> it's very hard to support linux applications, because each
distro has it's own collection of libs
20:53 < nsf> sometimes with patches
20:53 < nsf> and god knows what's inside
20:53 < nsf> and when your app pulls like 10 different .so
20:53 < nsf> you're screwed :)
20:54 < nsf> I've found at least two bugs in libpango (popular font drawing
lib on linux) during last two years
20:54 < nsf> and both were causing problems in my app
20:54 < TheMue> nsf: Made the same experiences often enough with larger Java
projects with high dependencies to external JARs, often enough in different
versions.  *sigh*
20:55 < nsf> yep, sometimes it's scary
20:55 < photron> dll hell is everywhere
20:56 < TheMue> Hehe, very often, yep (but since > 5y I'm now stable with
OS X)
20:57 < skelterjohn> this is why i don't use 3rd party libraries
20:57 < nsf> I use them, but now I really prefer zlib-like MIT-like licensed
libs
20:57 < nsf> because it's easy to pull their source code into your's project
tree
20:57 < nsf> s/your's/your/
20:58 < skelterjohn> what i think would work nicely, for go, is if it were
convention to store iterations of your library in a directory for that version
20:59 < skelterjohn> so you could import
"gomatrix.googlecode.com/hg/1.0/matrix"
20:59 < skelterjohn> for v 1.0
20:59 < nsf> I don't think that there is a solution to that problem
20:59 < skelterjohn> or .../hg/matrix for current
20:59 < nsf> except - don't use dynamic linking and pull 3rd party source
code always into your project
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20:59 < skelterjohn> which goinstall kind of does
21:00 < nsf> skelterjohn: well, goinstall lacks versioning, yeah
21:00 < skelterjohn> that's why i suggested that convention
21:00 < nsf> you can't ask it to pull specific commit
21:00 < skelterjohn> it would add versioning to goinstall
21:00 < nsf> how about: import "gomatrix.googlecode.com/hg/matrix:<COMMIT
SHA-1 OR REV NUM>"
21:00 < nsf> :)
21:00 < skelterjohn> i'd like that, too
21:01 < skelterjohn> but it would require goinstall to change
21:01 < skelterjohn> and it's not as nice looking as what i suggest
21:01 < nsf> but we can figure something out for tags too
21:01 < nsf> like different syntax
21:01 < nsf> import "gomatrix.googlecode.com/hg/matrix#<TAG>"
21:02 < nsf> where <TAG> is 'v1.0' or something
21:02 < skelterjohn> well, i took a step towards establishing my convention
21:02 < skelterjohn> i now promise to never change what's in /hg/1.0/matrix
21:02 < skelterjohn> maybe 1.0 was a bad number to choose
21:02 < skelterjohn> but w/e
21:03 -!- hallas [~hallas@x1-6-30-46-9a-b2-c5-1f.k891.webspeed.dk] has joined
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21:03 < uriel> oh, the joys of dynamic linking!
21:05 < hallas> With fear of starting a war, which dist should I choose to
host my webservice?  Just your guys' immediate opinion.  Choices are Fedora 12 or
13, Debian Lenny, CentOS 5.4 or 5.5, Ubuntu 8-10?  Gentoo or Arch Linux?
21:05 < nsf> hallas: doesn't matter
21:05 < hallas> The webservice is of course built in Go, if that matters
21:06 < nsf> all of which you've named are decent
21:06 < hallas> None of them have any apparent advantages?
21:06 < nsf> choose one you know best
21:06 < uriel> they all suck
21:06 < uriel> just pick the one you are most used to, so you know how to
deal with most of the braindamage
21:06 < nsf> hallas: they are all linux
21:06 < TheMue> nsf is right, but as an old Debian fan I would vote for
Debian.  *smile*
21:06 < exch> Arch Linux's package repo is bleeding edge.  So take care that
you may create an unstable server by updating
21:06 < nsf> TheMue: I'd choose Arch, because I know that they don't stick
their packages with crappy patches
21:07 < exch> Although I have never had any problems with it myself so far
21:07 < nsf> :)
21:07 < uriel> I guess an advantage of debian/gentoo/arch is that is
relatively easy to just install what you need, and leave the tons of crap most
distros push down your throat out
21:07 < hallas> nsf: I know, but don't tell me none of them have advanges,
like repos, firewalls etc ?
21:07 < hallas> Or like Uriel says, which of them has less crap :P
21:07 < uriel> (but even with debian/gentoo/arch it will take some
effort/knowledge to keep the crap flood at bay)
21:07 < nsf> hallas: I don't know
21:07 < hallas> Ill pick Lenny then
21:07 < TheMue> nsf: Never played with it, should try.  Beside AIX and
Solaris my Linux history is SuSE, RedHat, and Debian.
21:08 < hallas> It's the one I usually go with in the old days!!  :D
21:08 < exch> Arch linux drops you into a bare root shell after install.  it
doesnt get much cleaner than that :)
21:08 < exch> I love it
21:08 < skelterjohn> My security is through obscurity.
21:08 < uriel> hallas: don't get me wrong, they all have the same amount of
crap, it is just that some make it slightly easier to limit the amount of crap
included in your base system
21:08 < uriel> skelterjohn: are you running Plan 9?  or what?  ;P
21:08 < hallas> uriel: any _advantage_ count
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21:08 < hallas> especially if they're all crap
21:08 < skelterjohn> uriel: I'm depending on the fact that no one cares
enough about me to bother me
21:08 < nsf> my security is having no security
21:09 < Namegduf> As a former Gentoo user, I recommend against it because of
the abysmal quality and level of maintenance of its repositories compared to
Debian and Arch.
21:09 < Namegduf> Go with one of those two.
21:09 < nsf> I simply don't care about it
21:09 < Namegduf> I use Debian Unstable, Arch I've heard good things about
for a desktop.
21:09 < skelterjohn> nsf: yeah - i have whatever security comes with my mac.
it updates itself sometimes.
21:09 < uriel> run your server on bare metal with go's "tiny" runtime ;P
21:10 < Namegduf> *Arch
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21:10 < nsf> yeah, who needs kernel for Go, really
21:10 < nsf> we have scheduler here
21:10 < uriel> skelterjohn: that is 'security through irrelevance', but an
extra zombie is always useful ...
21:10 < skelterjohn> presumably to run a web server, you'd need an ethernet
driver or something
21:11 < uriel> nsf: and memory protection (no pointer arithmetic)
21:11 < nsf> skelterjohn: true
21:11 < uriel> nah, just use tcp over your keyboard's led lights!
21:11 < TheMue> ChromeOS?  *g*
21:11 < skelterjohn> i think this would be very interesting...  the bare
minimum OS in order to be able to run go code that can use the network
21:11 < skelterjohn> and read/write files, etc
21:11 < skelterjohn> and things go code wants to do
21:12 < TheMue> vx-works may be nice too
21:12 < nsf> skelterjohn: drivers will always be a problem
21:12 < Namegduf> skelterjohn: That was much more interesting before you
widened the scope to include "everything a full desktop OS does" :(
21:12 < nsf> it's shame that they are still a problem on linux sometimes
21:12 < skelterjohn> make it for only one machine and sell it as a "go-box"
21:12 < nsf> hehe
21:12 < skelterjohn> Namegduf: whatever a web server needs
21:13 < skelterjohn> which presumably doesn't include, for instance,
graphics
21:13 < Namegduf> That's interesting, yeah.
21:13 < uriel> vx-works causes nightmares
21:13 < uriel> I have heard it called 'vx-doesn't-work' and worse things
21:14 < skelterjohn> i've never heard of it at all, so there's that
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21:18 < Project_2501> n8
21:19 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.94.184] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa
leva che succ...]
21:19 < skelterjohn> is "n8" the new way to say "night"?
21:19 < nsf> yep
21:19 < TheMue> no
21:20 < TheMue> it's not so real new
21:20 < TheMue> ;)
21:20 < nsf> interesting, in the LLVM I can take an address of jitted
function
21:21 < nsf> what's the right way in Go to call that function
21:21 < skelterjohn> what does jitted mean
21:21 < nsf> compiled with a JIT compiler
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21:22 < nsf> well, currently I'm using engine.RunFunction
21:22 < nsf> because it goes through cgocall
21:22 < nsf> and it interacts nicely with Go runtime
21:22 < nsf> but maybe it is possible to integrate it better somehow
21:23 < nsf> we should add Go calling convention to the LLVM :)
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21:26 < nsf> it would be nice to have a shortcut for Go's reflect.TypeOf
21:26 < nsf> like for example if I have a func: func DoSomething(t
reflect.Type)
21:26 < nsf> imagine running it like that:
21:26 < nsf> DoSomething(int)
21:27 < nsf> syntax allows that, but semantics does not
21:27 < skelterjohn> can we get a reflect.Type directly from a type?  or
does it go through an instance first
21:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g2gv5 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/ -- arm:
enable 6 more tests after net fix
21:27 < nsf> with the help of a compiler I believe it is possible
21:28 < skelterjohn> eh?  i mean in go code
21:28 < nsf> currently, no
21:28 < skelterjohn> k
21:28 < nsf> reflect uses interface{} for that
21:28 < nsf> and interface{} is always a value
21:28 < nsf> but it should be possible!
21:29 < nsf> imagine this:
21:29 < TheMue> a latex user here?
21:29 < skelterjohn> i use latex a lot
21:29 < TheMue> how to set an @ in latex?
21:29 < nsf> llvm.FunctionType(llvm.Type, []llvm.Type, isVarArgs bool)
becomes:
21:30 < nsf> llvm.FunctionType(reflect.Type, isVarArgs bool,
...reflect.Type)
21:30 < skelterjohn> TheMue: you can just type "@"?
21:30 < skelterjohn> maybe i misunderstand
21:30 < nsf> llvm.FunctionType(int, false, int, int64, float)
21:30 < nsf> hehe
21:30 < TheMue> skelterjohn: Thats what I've first tried, but I get an
error.
21:30 < nsf> ok, enough of that, it's silly
21:30 < skelterjohn> TheMue: I just tried that and it worked fine
21:31 < skelterjohn> what's the error?
21:31 < TheMue> Hmm, seems latex will have the math mode.
21:31 < skelterjohn> I did it outside of math mode
21:31 < skelterjohn> worked inside, too
21:32 < TheMue> skelterjohn: I get a "Missing $ inserted"
21:33 < skelterjohn> then you have an unmatched $
21:33 < skelterjohn> it's not the @
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21:33 < skelterjohn> well, it says tha tif you put something that can only
be in math mode not in math mode
21:33 < TheMue> But there's no $ near it
21:33 < skelterjohn> but @ works fine forme
21:34 < skelterjohn> taking this to PM
21:34 < TheMue> oh, think I found it
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21:49 < nsf> I like the LLVM's C API
21:49 < nsf> type LLVMBool
21:50 < nsf> (it's C remember, doesn't have bool type, except one in C99)
21:50 < nsf> but!
21:50 < uriel> why do people ask for legal advice in a programming mailing
list?
21:50 < nsf> LLVM's C API uses 0 for true
21:50 < nsf> and 1 for false
21:50 < nsf> wtf
21:50 < nsf> >_<
21:50 < ampleyfly> o.o
21:51 < nsf>
http://repo.or.cz/w/llvm.git/blob/HEAD:/lib/VMCore/Core.cpp#l2204
21:51 < nsf> take a look
21:52 < nsf> returns 1 if there is an error, and 0 if there are no errors
21:52 < nsf> :\
21:53 < nsf> and I have conversions everywhere, like: gobool :=
<LLVMBool> != 0
21:53 < nsf> :\
21:53 < ampleyfly> well that's fairly common in c, anyway
21:53 < nsf> but why call it Bool?
21:53 < nsf> :)
21:54 < ampleyfly> that's a good question =)
21:54 -!- ikaros [~ikaros@dslb-188-097-076-206.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit:
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21:54 < nsf> ErrorCode or something
21:54 < nsf> now I have to revisit each function which uses LLVMBool
21:55 < nsf> to make sure that the conversions are correct
21:55 < nsf> but that's not the main failure point
21:56 < nsf> the thing is
21:56 < ampleyfly> well, you could always just change your idea of what the
returnvalue says, I guess
21:56 < nsf> that LLVM's C API also uses LLVMBool where direct conversion
from C++'s bool happens
21:56 < ampleyfly> :|
21:56 < nsf> like: return unwrap<StructType>(StructTy)->isPacked();
21:57 < nsf> and here, it's clearly 1 for true and 0 for false
21:57 < nsf> crazy API
21:57 < nsf> :\
21:58 < nsf> [nsf @ gollvm]$ grep LLVMBool *.go | wc -l
21:58 < nsf> 22
21:58 < nsf> at least there are not so many of them
21:58 < nsf> oops
21:58 < nsf> it's not an exact count
21:58 < nsf> I should check C headers for that
21:58 < nsf> 51
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21:59 * nsf sighs
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21:59 < Tv> nsf: can i just say i love the name "gollvm"
22:00 < ampleyfly> hah, nice
22:00 < nsf> yeah, I like gollums I guess
22:00 < nsf> I have golemon and gollvm
22:00 < exch> latin for 'gollum' :p
22:00 < nsf> hehe
22:00 < nsf> didn't know that
22:01 < exch> neither did I :p
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22:44 < Vovchik> go windows IDE using gobuild soon to release
22:44 < Vovchik> http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4459/asdss.png
22:45 < yebyen> woot
22:45 < yebyen> whats gobuild?
22:45 < yebyen> the new gomake?
22:45 < yebyen> or it was called gomake once, along with another thing
23:05 < uriel> oh dear:
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dr6r4/talk_by_rob_pike_the_expressiveness_of_go_pdf/
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23:06 < SirPsychoS> what's wrong with Go being on reddit?
23:06 -!- scarabx [~scarabx@c-76-19-43-200.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit:
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23:07 < SirPsychoS> or is there something evil in the comments (can't load
the page right now, reddit's apparently under heavy load)
23:08 < SirPsychoS> ahh, it loaded...  I see
23:09 < Vovchik> gobuild http://code.google.com/p/gobuild/
23:09 < Vovchik> i code it to work with windows
23:10 < hallas> how do I compile for 32 bit systems when Im on a 64 bit my
self?
23:10 < hallas> perhaps a stupid question I fear :(
23:11 < SirPsychoS> although I would actually prefer visibility of package
elements to be determined by, say, whether or not something starts with an _
rather than capitalization
23:11 < SirPsychoS> but I understand they've made it clear that they like
that idea and it's not going to change, so...  oh well
23:12 < nsf> _ for visibility is a very bad idea
23:13 < SirPsychoS> hmmm, how so?
23:13 < nsf> because it's ugly
23:13 < nsf> :D
23:13 < SirPsychoS> so is camelCase
23:13 < nsf> it is less ugly
23:13 < exch> Go already has a good use for _.  Using it in identifiers is
just confusing
23:13 < SirPsychoS> I find camelCase almost completely illegible
23:13 < hallas> SirPsychoS: why?
23:13 * exch loves camelCase
23:13 < nsf> SirPsychoS: you can actually write an editor plugin
23:14 < SirPsychoS> becauseICantReadItWorthCrap
23:14 < SirPsychoS> noSeparationBetweenWords
23:14 < nsf> that will show you camelCase as camel_case
23:14 < exch> ICan
23:14 < nsf> I believe emacs has something like that
23:14 < SirPsychoS> underscores_actually_look_remotely_like_spaces
23:14 < SirPsychoS> hmmm nsf that sounds rather promising
23:14 < hallas> SirPsychoS: thats personal tbh
23:14 < nsf> SirPsychoS: yeah, but underscores have different problem
23:14 < nsf> when you mix them with spaces
23:14 < hallas> "my brain" so to speak really have no problem with camelCase
as indication of new words
23:14 < nsf> they actually do look like spaces :)
23:14 < SirPsychoS> spaces in identifiers?
23:15 < nsf> no
23:15 < nsf> spaces in code
23:15 < nsf> cairo_surface_t *create_cairo_surface_for_pixmap(struct
x_connection *c, Pixmap p)
23:15 < nsf> something like that
23:15 < nsf> space in the middle gets lost
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23:16 < nsf> depends on the font of course, but..
23:16 < SirPsychoS> i guess, but I prefer that over discarding spacing
altogether
23:16 < cbeck> Yeah, that's my main objection
23:16 < SirPsychoS> but then, it _is_ a personal issue
23:16 < SirPsychoS> everyone's gonna have a different opinion
23:16 < nsf> that's why forcing people to do one way or another is good
23:16 < nsf> less freedom, more consistency :)
23:17 < SirPsychoS> but then you get people whining about how they don't
like the way you chose :P
23:17 < nsf> I can't say that freedom for coding style is a good thing
23:17 < nsf> but consistency is
23:17 < hallas> imo, the visibility and capitalization thing is a genius
masterstroke
23:17 < nsf> agreed
23:18 < nsf> I thought it's bad when I first saw it
23:18 < SirPsychoS> It's definitely a cool idea
23:18 < nsf> but I've completely changed my mind
23:18 < SirPsychoS> actually...  what I take issue with is really the
convention of using camelcase, I like the initial caps thing
23:19 < SirPsychoS> Exported_Method and unexported_method look better to my
eyes
23:19 < nsf> also camelCase is less key strokes
23:19 < SirPsychoS> by...  one per word, lol
23:19 < nsf> :D
23:20 < uriel> hallas: 6g compiles to amd64, 8g compiles to x86, pretty
simple
23:20 < hallas> well, it can have something to do with it being used as the
blank ident
23:20 < hallas> uriel: yes but you dont get 8g if GOARCH != 386
23:21 < hallas> uriel: so I've compiled them now ;)
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23:31 < hallas> So I've compiled for 368 aswell, however 8g says it cant
find the http package, whilst 6g works fine.  Any tips?
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23:34 < hallas> aha pkg/linux_386 is almost empty
23:37 < hallas> good night
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23:59 < gzmask> how do I serve JPG/PNG files using the handle function of
HTTP package?
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--- Log closed Fri Oct 15 00:00:10 2010