--- Log opened Sat Oct 23 00:00:03 2010
--- Day changed Sat Oct 23 2010
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00:13 < Soultaker> I found my problem is already known:
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=664
00:13 < Soultaker> Apparently it's an intentional "feature"?
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00:30 < yiyus> Soultaker: i guess there are EPIPE errors which can be
ignored coming from somewhere
00:30 < yiyus> but it is just a bug
00:30 < yiyus> im sure it will get fixed
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00:36 < Soultaker> I assume the either was to give the caller an opportunity
to handle the error gracefully
00:37 < Soultaker> without having to install a signal handler (which makes
it very hard to map the signal to the offending file descriptor in a multithreaded
program)
00:38 < Soultaker> but then apparently they still wanted to make the
application exit if SIGPIPE persists.  but I don't really understand the need for
that.
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00:46 < KBme> a normal unix program exits whet it receives EOF
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01:06 < Soultaker> is there an easy way to make a 2D array of dynamic size?
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01:17 < zhaozhou> In the package 'template', can I access a specific map
element within a struct?  (i.e.  {.section map.element})
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01:29 < zhaozhou> I got it, you can nest {section}, duh.  :)
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11:07 < HollyRain> hi!  does cgo packages can not be installed via
goinstall, doesn't?
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11:14 < uriel> HollyRain: I think goinstall still doesn't quie handle cgo
packages, or at least that was the case not long ago
11:16 < HollyRain> ok, then I'll add a bash script just like for install
commands
11:16 < uriel> please, never, ever, ever, write bash scripts
11:16 < uriel> #!/bin/sh should be good enough
11:25 * kimelto looks at go build system :(
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11:59 < KBme> so anyone know why string(len(map[string]string)) would return
"\u0005"?
11:59 < KBme> i'm doing map[string(len(map[string]string))] = "foo"
11:59 < KBme> hmm, not exactly
12:00 < KBme> (map = make(map[string]string))i'm doing map[string(len(map))]
= "foo"
12:00 < KBme> and the index that is created is \u0005 if the length of the
map is 5
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12:06 < KBme> argh, strconv.Itoa
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14:01 < mpl> hey.  I'm working on a codereview from a different comp than
the one I had originally made the first commit from, and I get that message when
trying to hg upload: cannot upload non-local change
14:01 < mpl> how do I work around that?
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14:24 < dropdrive> Can Go be a decent replacement for sh/bash shell script?
Are there any overviews of how to run subcommands, get exit codes, capture
stdin/out, etc.?
14:27 < skelterjohn> i don't know if go is the right tool for that job
14:27 < skelterjohn> there are packages that can do what you list
14:28 < dropdrive> skelterjohn: Okay.  I was hoping it was, then I'd get to
ditch sh and learn Go at the same time!
14:29 < skelterjohn> the exec package
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14:35 < mpl> dropdrive: you could always try rc out, it's a nice shell.  it
comes with plan9port (or maybe with a trimmed out package in your distro).
http://swtch.com/plan9port/
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17:00 < nsf> uhm..  does anyone know is it ok to use '#!/usr/bin/env
python2' as a portable shebang thing?  because here in archlinux 'python' points
to python3 now and my testing scripts are broken :(
17:01 < taruti> there is no portable way to refer to python2
17:01 < nsf> :(
17:01 < nsf> well ok then, I'll just rewrite my scripts in ruby (I've
rewritten one of them already, one to go)
17:02 < nsf> thanks btw :)
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17:03 < taruti> on modern systems the python2 trick works, but I don't think
all python2 installations have that
17:04 < nsf> i'll just use ruby, it's better suited for this task anyway
17:04 < nsf> and it will stay backwards compatible forever :)
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17:30 < uriel> nsf: 'python' poins to python3?  sounds like arch linuts is
badly broken then
17:30 < nsf> no, it's not broken
17:31 < uriel> yes it is, to call python3 python is broken
17:31 < uriel> they are two different languages
17:31 < nsf> no, it's not :)
17:31 < nsf> all python apps work here without any problems
17:31 < nsf> but only if they went through package manager
17:32 < uriel> so, it is totally broken
17:32 < nsf> well, that's your opinion
17:33 < uriel> no, that is a fact, if any script that uses #!/usr/bin/env
python breaks, arch is broken
17:33 < taruti> *python* is broken, distros try to cope with the fact
17:34 < nsf> uriel: why are you saying that to me, I don't care what do you
think about arch :) I will use it anyway
17:34 < taruti> there is no way to know whether a script using
#!/usr/bin/env python wants python2 or python3
17:34 < uriel> taruti: python is broken in many ways, but python and python3
are two different languages, to pretend they are the same is beyond insane
17:34 < nsf> uriel: python3 is supposed to replace python2
17:34 < uriel> taruti: er., it is quite obvious: it wants python2, because
that is what has been used for ages
17:34 < nsf> arch devs are just trying to help the event
17:35 < taruti> uriel: not really.  and not even Go is backwards compatible
;P
17:35 < uriel> nsf: er., no, it is not the same language, so it is not
something you can replace and expect anything to work
17:35 < uriel> nsf: you could just as well replace your c compiler with a go
complier
17:35 < uriel> hey, go is meant to replace C, so that should work!
17:35 < nsf> python3 is much more similar to python2 than Go to C
17:35 < uriel> it makes just as much sense as replacing the python2
interpreter with a python3 interpreter
17:36 < uriel> nsf: similar or not, it is a different incompatible language
17:36 < cbeck> ;!
17:36 < nsf> ok
17:37 < uriel> and all this is offtopic, but really, the stupidity making
#!/usr/bin/env python call python3 totally boggles the mind
17:38 < nsf> well, I don't understand why sometimes people ask me to add
python2.4 or python2.5 support for my apps
17:38 < nsf> when python2.6 release has been around for 2 or 3 years
17:39 < uriel> because retarded distros that have ancient versions of python
17:39 < uriel> but the thing is, it is possible with some extra work and
pain to write a script that is backwards compatible with ancient versions of
python
17:39 < nsf> I guess your version of arch's python thing is the same then:
"retarded distro"
17:39 < uriel> it is *not* possible to write forwards compatible or
backwards compatible code across python2/python3
17:40 < uriel> what arch is doing is beyond retarded
17:40 < nsf> :))
17:40 < uriel> (if you got it right, which is so insane I have hard time
believing anyone could do it)
17:43 < nsf> the problem is: Guido wants people to use python3 instead of
python2
17:43 < nsf> and no one will ever do that
17:43 < nsf> unless distros will force people to convert their apps in a
painful way
17:43 < kimelto> if the python guys are confident they could just stop
support for python2 :p
17:43 < KBme> nsf: python2.6 i think
17:44 < KBme> python2 should work though, i have a python2 :P
17:44 < nsf> KBme: it should, indeed
17:45 < KBme> nsf: so arch is broken → file a bug
17:45 < KBme> ok
17:45 < KBme> nsf: see the archlinux.org news ;)
17:45 < KBme> it's right on the top
17:46 < nsf> python2 works on arch
17:46 < KBme> pacman -S python2
17:46 < uriel> nsf: that is nonsense, guido uses p2 all the time, he works
on app engine, which is all still python 2.5
17:46 < nsf> uriel: for every new script he writes, he uses p3
17:46 < uriel> nsf: so spare us silly excuses for the totally retarded and
insane brokenness of arch (again, assuming you are right, which I find hard to
believe)
17:47 < uriel> nsf: wrong again
17:47 < nsf> whatever..
17:48 < cbeck> be nice kids
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17:49 < uriel> hell, I can even point you to his latest project in google
code, which is python 2.5:
17:50 < uriel> blah, can't find the link now, but he started the project
less than a month ago
17:51 < nsf> well, if guido makes python3 incompatible to python2 and then
he still uses python2, the guido is broken
17:51 < nsf> :D
17:51 < cbeck> someone issue a patch =P
17:51 < nsf> it's like he's proving to the community that it is impossible
to do a sane conversion from 2 to 3
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17:52 < uriel> here you go:
http://code.google.com/p/appengine-ndb-experiment/
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17:53 < uriel> nsf: no, guido is not broken, ken still uses C, even if he is
working on Go
17:53 < uriel> nsf: and really, tons of work has gone on preparing for the
converstion
17:53 < uriel> but replacing /usr/bin/python with a version of python3 is
certainly not the way anyone sane advocates doing it
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20:19 < hallas> good evening
20:20 < Tv> hallas: good afternoon
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20:26 < TheMue> moo
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20:26 * binarypie yawns
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20:27 * TheMue codes
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20:35 < imc> hello
20:36 < imc> new to go, i'm getting a bunch of "implicit assignment of
unexported field" 'w' of sync.RWMutex in (return argument|assignemnt)
20:36 < imc> what i'm probably doing wrong?
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20:37 < uriel> imc: w -> private
20:37 < imc> i mean, i'm not even supposed to _know_ sync.RWMutex has a
field called 'w', how can i implicitely assign to it ?
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20:37 < uriel> W -> public
20:37 < imc> uriel: so what?
20:37 < imc> i'm not using private fields
20:37 < uriel> what does your code look like?
20:37 < imc> i just call RLock() RUnlock or Lock() and Unlock()
20:38 < uriel> on what?
20:38 < imc> on a sync.RWMutex contained in a struct
20:38 < uriel> are you embeding an sync.RWMutex on one of your own types?
20:38 < uriel> ok
20:38 < uriel> why are you using mutexes anyway?
20:39 < imc> because i must
20:39 < imc> i need more goroutines to work on the same data
20:39 < uriel> so?  use channels
20:39 < imc> i don't want to block
20:39 < imc> i show you the code
20:39 < uriel> why not?
20:39 < imc> because then the program is gonna be wrong
20:40 < imc> i'm trying to implement a network wimulator
20:40 < imc> *simulator
20:40 < TheMue> channels and goroutines don't need to block, depending on
the design
20:40 < uriel> if you are trying to write Go code like you would write
pthreads code, you are really not going to enjoy things much
20:40 < TheMue> +1
20:40 < uriel> TheMue: well, then there is that
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20:40 < imc> so the snippet of code must increas the "OnWire" data size,
send the packet to the out end of the Channel, then decrease the size by the same
amount
20:41 < imc> but many of such goroutins should be able to run concurrently
20:41 < uriel> if you are new to Go, and you are using Mutexes, this is a
bit red flag that you are doing something wrong
20:41 < uriel> imc: i have not seen any code yet
20:41 < imc> i show you
20:42 < TheMue> hehe, yep, mutexes in go are most time oldfashioned and not
needed
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20:43 < imc> http://pastebin.com/KL3j3YzJ
20:44 < imc> should look at structs and the PacketSender method
20:44 < imc> then i would be glad to hear your advice to remove locks (i
really tried not to use them and if they can be removed i'm happy)
20:45 < imc> s/ to / how to /
20:48 < imc> the thing is that PacketSend()'s send() function blocks waiting
PacketReceiver()'s receive() function to pick up the packet, and it *must* wait
before decreasing the OnWire field
20:48 < imc> so i must put it in a go (i.e.  go send(pkt)) to avoid blocking
the ch.IN channel
20:49 < imc> the ch.IN channel has to be blocked only if OnWire >
Bandwidth
20:49 < imc> (or the application is wrong)
20:52 < uriel> i really don't understand what your code is trying to do, but
I got a headache
20:52 < uriel> still, there should be no reason whatsoever to use a mutex
20:53 < uriel> channels should be way more than enough
20:53 < imc> tell me something
20:53 < imc> x <- ch
20:53 < imc> sorry
20:53 < imc> x := <-ch
20:53 < imc> blocks until somewhere something is doing a ch <- foo
20:53 < imc> isn't it?
20:53 < exch> yes
20:53 < uriel> unless ch is buffered
20:53 < imc> ohhh
20:54 < exch> x, ok := <-ch will not block.  'ok' will be either true or
false.  True if a value is available
20:54 < imc> right
20:54 < uriel> and what exch said will work even if ch is not buffered
20:54 < imc> and ch <- x ?
20:54 < imc> does it blocks ?
20:54 < uriel> same
20:54 < uriel> really, all this is covered in the basic go docs
20:55 < exch> it only blocks as long as the channel is 'full'
20:55 < imc> i can't learn by only reading, i must do things to memorize
them
20:55 < Namegduf> imc: I don't understand why you're concerned that channels
can block, given that the *point* of Mutex is it blocking.
20:55 < imc> the logic is
20:56 < imc> OnWire += size; get rid of pkt; OnWire -= size
20:56 < imc> must be somewhat atomic
20:56 < Namegduf> Right.
20:57 < uriel> imc: so why don't you let the other end handle that?
20:57 < Namegduf> My point is that you can pretty much always replace a
Mutex by starting a goroutine that accepts functions and runs them from a channel,
sending a function that runs the code "within the Mutex", and then sending a
message back when done.
20:58 < Namegduf> It will block when something else is being run, until it's
free, just like a Mutex.
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20:58 < imc> it must be possible to have OnWire += size1; OnWire += size2;
get rid of pkt1; OnWire -= size1; get rid of pkt2; OnWire -= size2
20:58 < Namegduf> Yes.
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20:58 < Namegduf> This would work by the second thing blocking and waiting
for the first to complete, then running.
20:58 < Namegduf> Which is what happens with a Mutex.
20:59 < uriel> well, where is OnWire stored anyway?
20:59 < imc> if you see my code a lock; += size; unlock, get rid; lock; -=
size; unlock
20:59 < imc> so it can be interleaved,
20:59 < uriel> yes, but size of what?
20:59 < imc> of the packet
20:59 < imc> being sent
20:59 < uriel> but you sent the packet, so why do you need to change its
size at all?!?
21:00 < imc> OnWire is the size on the wire
21:00 < imc> i.e.  the Channel
21:00 < imc> more than one packet could be onwire
21:00 < imc> because of the propagation delay
21:00 < Namegduf> imc: Then you can do the same thing.
21:00 < uriel> fine, then have a goroutine per Channel
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21:00 < imc> i have two goroutins per channel
21:00 < imc> packet sender and packet receiver
21:00 < uriel> then what is the problem?
21:00 < Namegduf> You just put everything between "lock" and "unlock" in an
anonymous function
21:01 < Namegduf> And send it to the goroutine that owns the data
21:01 < Namegduf> With it sending a reply when done, if you care
21:01 < TheMue> goroutine for onWire, increment and decrement using two
channels, plain simple
21:01 < Namegduf> And you have duplicated a Mutex for all uses.
21:01 < imc> TheMue: ok
21:01 < Namegduf> It can be too *slow* in particular unusual cases
21:02 < Namegduf> But that's what benchmarking is for.
21:02 < imc> so one more goroutine instead of a lock
21:03 < imc> but the question i asked was: why i'm getting that compilation
error?
21:03 * uriel is not convinced that one more goroutine is needed, but is not sure
to understand the problem
21:03 < uriel> i think one goroutine per channel and one goroutine per
'node' in the network should be probably enough
21:03 < TheMue> uriel: /me too, deeper analysis would be needed, may leat to
a complete redesign
21:03 < imc> uriel: send() does: OnWire += size; wait for propagation delay
(up to some seconds!); ch.OUT <- pkt; OnWire -= size
21:04 < imc> the problem is: when the packet is on wire (i.e.  during the
"sleep" phase)
21:04 < TheMue> thinking in go is like thinking in erlang a special thing
21:04 < imc> more packets can potentially be queued on the wire
21:04 < uriel> imc: so?  use buffered channels then
21:04 < imc> that's why i can't just "wait for send to finish"
21:05 < imc> something like ch.OUT <- buffer <- ch.IN ?
21:05 < uriel> you can have a goroutine per Channel, that selects on its
input and output channels
21:05 < imc> instead of ch.Out <- complex things <- ch.IN
21:07 < imc> okay
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21:07 < imc> what about the compilation error?
21:08 < imc> (mmmm buffered channels can invalidate the fact that the
bandwidth can't be exceeded...)
21:09 < uriel> imc: if bw is exceeded the goroutine that manages the channel
can just hold on to the data
21:09 < uriel> until there is bw to send it out
21:10 < imc> that's already implemented this way, with locks
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21:10 < uriel> yes, but you should not use locks, go is not pthreads
21:10 < imc> waiting for OnWire to get a decent value before giving the
packet to the "send" anonymous function
21:11 < uriel> (thank god)
21:11 < imc> for the record, the errors are a bunch of "implicit assignment
of unexported field" 'w' of sync.RWMutex in (return argument|assignemnt)
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21:11 < imc> i will refactor it
21:11 < imc> now i would like to test that a bit and understand what i'm
doing wrong (compiler-wise, not design-wise)
21:12 < cbeck> imc: You're passing a struct with unexported fields by value
21:12 < imc> right
21:12 < exch> you should declare the lock as *sync.RWMutex (pointer type)
21:12 < imc> thanks
21:14 < imc> thanks
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21:24 < imc> great :P
21:28 < mpl> uriel:
http://fukung.net/v/31844/d7128050ba484ddcaa100c07115d41cb.png
21:36 < imc> so the node to node is working great...  let's try with routers
;)
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21:37 < fenicks> hello
21:40 < imc> hello.
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22:17 < Tv> can i get the name of a function at run time?
22:19 < Tv> right now best i can see is a combo of reflect and gosym
22:19 < Tv> via the functions address
22:19 < Tv> but reflect Addr() returns uintptr, gosym uses uint64, so it's
not very encouraging
22:27 < Tv> yeah it seems the in-memory addresses really have nothing to do
with elf symbols, and i can't see how to connect the two
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22:29 < Tv> hmm runtime lets me map pc to func to name
22:30 < Tv> how do i gets func pc without calling it?
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22:31 < Tv> gosym.Func.Entry looks promising
22:33 < Tv> whee runtime.FuncForPC
22:33 < Tv> i need to cas one uint64 to uintptr, but otherwise it looks
pretty
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22:40 < skelterjohn> runtime.Caller
22:41 < Tv> skelterjohn: i want to do this without the function being called
22:41 < skelterjohn> oh right
22:42 < skelterjohn> having a hard time understanding the use-case
22:42 < skelterjohn> you want the name of a function without calling it
22:42 < skelterjohn> like, the function pointed to by something of type
func() etc?
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22:43 < Tv> basically, i'd like to call a function by name
22:43 < Tv> and i'd like to see if i can avoid explicit registration
22:43 < skelterjohn> go from a string to a function?
22:43 < Tv> yeah
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22:43 < Tv> and, well, the other way too
22:43 < skelterjohn> that's done at compile time, not runtime, so it might
be hard
22:43 < Tv> i already have gosym available ;)
22:43 < mIRCTRUser-314> hi
22:44 < skelterjohn> not familiar with that, so good luck :)
22:44 < Tv> it's just a matter of matching the elf symbols to the "function
object"
22:44 < Tv> go is close enough to C that the match is there
22:44 < financer> do u have a topic?
22:45 < skelterjohn> what?
22:45 < financer> are u talkig anything now
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22:46 < financer> ı m asking it
22:46 < Tv> Eternal September is still going on strong, it seems
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22:46 < skelterjohn> you're not really making a lot of sense
22:47 < skelterjohn> Tv: you just dated yourself back quite far :)
22:47 < Tv> skelterjohn: yup ;)
22:47 < skelterjohn> much farther back than i go - i only know what you're
talking about by chance
22:47 < skelterjohn> must be an aol user
22:47 < Tv> i saw the trailing edge of good usenet
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22:56 < imc> uhm...  easy way to convert an int to an int16 ?
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22:56 < imc> (it's in a for loop, i.e.  myInt16 + i)
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22:57 < Tv> imc: int16(i)
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22:58 < imc> thanks :)
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23:40 < mikhailt> who
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23:42 < mikhailt> Question.  How to determine list of methods of type in
run-time?
23:45 < uriel> mikhailt: did you look into the reflect package?
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--- Log closed Sun Oct 24 00:00:12 2010