--- Log opened Tue Nov 09 00:00:15 2010
00:01 < gzmask> i know this is off topic but...  would it be faster if I
just use json files to store my game player info instead of mysql?
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00:04 < kimelto> gzmask: if it is one player and on the user machine its a
good idea imho
00:05 < kimelto> if there are a lot of different players, etc, let this job
to the rdbms
00:06 < gzmask> isn't using RDBMS would give up my rights to control when
the information is gonna be in memory and when it's gonna on disk?  will that slow
down the access time?
00:08 < kimelto> it's the job of the rdbms to deal with that :)
00:08 < kimelto> but as long as you commited your transaction the data
should be on disk (or it is a b0rken rdbms)
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00:14 < gzmask> thanks, I guess I'll have to do some tests
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01:31 < Makoryu> A regular here once tried to convince me that built-in
types like functions and arrays have no place being generics
01:31 < Makoryu> I don't remember who it was though
01:31 < Makoryu> I am curious if that guy is still around
01:33 < Soultaker> no place in what sense?
01:33 < Soultaker> (it wasn't me btw :P)
01:39 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gQPlb by [Evan Shaw] in go/src/pkg/bytes/ --
bytes: SSE for bytes.IndexByte on amd64
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01:49 < Makoryu> Soultaker: In the sense that generics are only useful for
implementing user-defined data structures, which obviously functions and arrays
are not
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01:49 < Makoryu> Soultaker: That was his argument, anyway
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02:00 < Soultaker> hmm ok..  don't know what to make of that.
02:08 < Makoryu> Soultaker: It reminded me of the bafflement of career Java
programmers at the suggestion that primitive types (int, bool, etc.) belong in the
same type hierarchy as objects
02:10 < Soultaker> well Java is weird anyway.  (I don't think Java supports
primitives as type arguments either)
02:10 < Soultaker> IIRC there were a lot of weird hacks in C++ to properly
support primitive types as template arguments (but I don't really know the
details)
02:15 < Makoryu> Yeah, adding parametric polymorphism to a type system after
the fact is generally a disaster and requires lots of hacks
02:15 < Makoryu> Which is why so many people are angsty about the decision
to leave it out of Go for the time being
02:20 < Soultaker> I think somebody had a prototype that added generics to
Go
02:20 < Soultaker> not sure how well that integrated though
02:21 < Soultaker> at least Go seems to make less of a distinction between
primitive and object types than some other languages
02:21 < Soultaker> e.g.  I can add methods to an int or a char* just fine.
02:21 < Makoryu> I've seen at least three prototypes
02:21 < Makoryu> And yeah, that does help a lot
02:22 < Makoryu> Still doesn't make it ML or Haskell, though ;)
02:22 < Soultaker> I always thought Go's type system was a lot like ML's
02:22 < Soultaker> because of the lack of a type hierarchy
02:23 < Soultaker> IIRC ML's functions are really generic functions,
different from C++ parameterized functions
02:23 < Makoryu> Well a lot of people have compared the "interfaces instead
of inheritance" thing to Haskell's use of typeclasses
02:23 < Makoryu> In some dialects, yes
02:23 < Soultaker> not sure if that matters from a theoretic point of
view...
02:24 < Makoryu> I think OCaml is one such dialect
02:24 < Soultaker> yeah, OCaml is probably what I used
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02:24 < Soultaker> there, min x y = if x < y then x else y (or whatever
the syntax was)
02:24 < Soultaker> would execute much slower as a generic function than
compared to when you forced it to be of (e.g.) type int -> int -> int
02:25 < Makoryu> Ah, but in OCaml (IIRC) the < operator is not generic
02:25 < Soultaker> from a practical point of view, I disliked that.  and I
imagine the Go developers would dislike that too.
02:25 < Makoryu> Yeah
02:25 < Soultaker> you mean < operates only on ints anyway?
02:25 < Soultaker> then probably that was a bad example on my part :)
02:25 < Makoryu> I don't remember very well, honestly
02:26 < Makoryu> I wasn't into OCaml for very long
02:26 < Soultaker> yeah, I think you're right.
02:26 < Makoryu> But I think the comparison operators are among those where
you add a dot for the float version
02:26 < Soultaker> but I'm pretty sure that you could define functions which
could work generically or be instantiated for one particular type, and the generic
version had a lot of runtime overhead.
02:27 < Makoryu> Well it depends what you're doing
02:27 < Soultaker> it's probably more of an implementation issue, but still.
02:27 < Soultaker> the alernative (specializing functions as you need them)
leads to the problem of the source code (or some preprocessed version) being
available at compile time, which is what C++ suffers from.
02:28 < Makoryu> But the reason that was a problem in C++ is that the
implementation was massively complicated by preexisting constraints
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02:30 < Soultaker> true I suppose.
02:30 < Soultaker> but I imagine it's hard if you want to design it from
scratch too.
02:31 < Makoryu> (That, and short-sighted compiler implementers used
inefficient algorithms in the link model early on, and then couldn't change it
because it would break binary compatibility)
02:31 < Makoryu> (I'm looking at you, GCC...)
02:31 < Makoryu> The Haskell folks seem to get away with it
02:31 < Makoryu> I don't remember what they do though
02:32 < Soultaker> (I think the GCC limitations are partially influenced by
free-software politics)
02:32 < Soultaker> I assumed they incurred the overhead of genericity too,
like with Ocaml
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02:32 < Soultaker> but maybe not.  I know very little about its
implementation.
02:33 < Makoryu> Well I know the compiler is able to specialize aggressively
across module boundaries, with optional help from user annotations
02:34 < Soultaker> ah ok
02:34 < Makoryu> Actually, some of the more confusing rules in the language
(eg.  the monomorphism restriction) are for the sake of allowing more aggressive
specialization
02:36 < Soultaker> ah, I didn't know that.
02:38 < Soultaker> Oversimplifying the debate somewhat: Those in favour tend
to be those who have written Haskell Implementations and those against tend to be
those who have written complex combinator libraries (and hence have hit their
collective heads against the restriction all too often).  It often boils down to
the fact that programmers want to avoid legalese, and language implementors want
to avoid cruft.
02:39 < Soultaker> (quoting from the haskell wiki btw) :P
02:39 < Soultaker> guess I never ran into that by not writing *that* complex
stuff in Haskell, combined with writing type declarations wherever I can.
02:39 < Makoryu> About the MMR?  :p
02:39 < Soultaker> yes.
02:42 < Makoryu> Well so long as you write type annotations for most of your
declarations, you'll hardly ever encounter it
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03:35 < crazy2be> hmm so
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03:46 < crazy2be> the go http library seems to want to be nice to me
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03:47 < crazy2be> and handle making a Content-length header all by itself
03:47 < crazy2be> trouble is
03:47 < crazy2be> i've had to hack it apart to do what i want it to do in my
code
03:47 < crazy2be> that is, copy sections of it into my code and modify them
03:47 < crazy2be> so i'm not really using it how it was intended
03:48 < crazy2be> because it wasn't working with setting the requesy body as
a io.Reader
03:48 < crazy2be> so i copy that into the request manually
03:48 < crazy2be> which would mean that the http library either augth to use
my set value for the content-length, set it to 0, or not set it at all
03:49 < crazy2be> and, incedentally, it seems to do all 3
03:49 < crazy2be> alternatingly
03:49 < crazy2be> in so set order
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03:49 < crazy2be> *no
03:49 < crazy2be> it's bizzare
03:49 < crazy2be> i can't figure it out
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04:22 < morrildl_> O HAI
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04:34 < crazy2be> so my solution is to just cut out the http library
entirely
04:34 < crazy2be> seems to be working
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05:03 < crazy2be> ngith all
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10:07 < wrtp> anyone managed to get gdb working on go binaries under mac os?
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15:22 < KBme> aynone know what "127.0.0.0:0" means for an net.Listener?
15:22 < KBme> i don't understand the 0 port there
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15:47 < wrtp> KBme: it means listen on some arbitrary port.
15:47 < KBme> ahh thanks
15:48 < KBme> (could be added to the documentation, it can be useful for
tests)
15:48 < wrtp> you can find out what port it has chosen by calling Addr()
15:48 < wrtp> yeah, netchan uses it for testing, for example
15:49 < wrtp> it's also good if you already have a connection and want to
create a back-channel - you can send the port number to the other end
15:49 < KBme> it's exactly in the netchan tests that i bumped into it
15:49 < KBme> ☺
15:49 < KBme> thanks wrtp
15:51 < KBme> wrtp: do you by any chance know of an application that uses
netchans?  i'm having a hard time understanding it
15:53 < wrtp> i don't know of an app that uses it, sorry.
15:53 < wrtp> it's somewhat experimental at this point, i'd say.
15:53 < KBme> oh?
15:53 < KBme> dammit
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15:53 < wrtp> what sort of thing do you want to do with it?
15:54 < wrtp> "experimental" doesn't mean it doesn't work...
15:54 < KBme> so there is no way to run an external "plugin" and communicate
with it?  :-/
15:54 < wrtp> sure you can do that.
15:54 < KBme> just launch an external program based on configuration and
communicate with it
15:54 < wrtp> yeah
15:54 < KBme> stdin-stdout?
15:55 < wrtp> not with netchan currently
15:55 < wrtp> you have to use network addresses
15:55 < wrtp> i think that will change.
15:55 < KBme> well i can parametrise the external program to accept an
address, that's no biggie
15:55 < wrtp> yeah, that's the idea
15:56 < wrtp> if you export one channel for each plugin, then you should
have no problems
15:56 < KBme> but the netchan doesn't use the same idioms as normal channels
15:56 < wrtp> channels shared between listeners have some problems.
15:56 < wrtp> how do you mean?
15:56 < KBme> then i fail to see it's use
15:56 < KBme> well you can't do netchan <- "mydata"
15:56 < wrtp> sure you can
15:57 < KBme> oih?
15:57 < KBme> oh?
15:57 < KBme> so, i really need an example :D
15:57 * KBme goes back to reading the netchan tests
15:57 < wrtp> that's the idea :-)
15:57 < wrtp> what you can't do (currently) is send a channel as a value.
15:58 < KBme> aha!
15:58 < wrtp> which loses a lot of the power of channels
15:58 < KBme> yep
15:58 < KBme> damn..
15:58 < wrtp> i believe rob has plans to enable that
15:58 < KBme> what if I use rpc and send channels over rpc?
15:58 < KBme> will that break?
15:58 < wrtp> how would you send a channel over rpc?
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15:59 < KBme> as a parameter to a rpc.Call?
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15:59 < wrtp> then it would have to be encoded as (e.g.) json.  how would
you encode a channel as a textual value like that?
16:00 < KBme> right :D
16:00 < wrtp> a channel is just an address in memory.
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16:00 < KBme> yep
16:00 < wrtp> it has no meaning to any other process.
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16:00 < KBme> hmmmm that's no good
16:00 < wrtp> but...  you could probably do quite well with two netchan
Listeners
16:01 < KBme> so netchan is the only way but it's still limping
16:01 < KBme> ok back to reading the tests source
16:01 < wrtp> then if you want to send a channel, you Export it, and send a
reference to the other side, which Imports it.
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16:01 < wrtp> that might work ok actually.
16:01 < KBme> yeah i guess
16:02 < KBme> ok gotta understand how netchans work.  thanks again wrtp
16:02 < wrtp> np
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16:35 < hallas> Does anyone of a mailing list, or irc channel where I can
ask a few questions regarding cross compiling a C program for Windows (with win32
api) while under linux (ubuntu)
16:35 < hallas> ?
16:36 < KBme> you're on a very wrong channel for that.  this is a channel
relating to the go programming language, not C
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16:37 < KBme> ##C can be a good starting point
16:37 < hallas> KBme: I know:) thats why I'm asking
16:37 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055067206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252
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16:37 < KBme> or ##windows
16:37 < hallas> i just dont know where to find out elsewhere
16:37 < hallas> but thank you very much
16:37 < hallas> ##c
16:37 < hallas> mt
16:39 < Namegduf> MySQL bindings; they exist, but how reliably utilisable
are they?
16:39 * Namegduf has an excuse to use Go somewhere
16:41 < KBme> dunno about mysql, the sqlite bindings seem to work pretty
well
16:43 < Namegduf> Okay.
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16:43 < Namegduf> I think I'll just use those.
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16:45 < KBme> i did a small program that did <30k inserts and then reads
from that (that many inserts with commits every 500 insert worked in like 3
seconds), the structure was pretty simple, though, just 11 columnds, all strings
16:45 < KBme> s,ds,s,
16:47 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gS8eP by [Peter Mundy] in go/doc/ -- doc: fix
go_spec spelling error
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16:54 < KBme> so, in netchan dir is a type of netchan.Dir, which can be Recv
and Send, what is bi-directional?
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16:57 < hallas> Having both recv and send makes its bi-directional
16:58 < KBme> i'm not sure you know what you're talking about.
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17:03 < hallas> it's an rather odd questions, perhaps you could elaborate?
Anyway, thank you for judging.
17:04 < KBme> Importer.Import takes a direction as argument, i was wondering
if there was a way to import a bidirectional channel directly, or i have to create
two channels: one for receiving and one for sending
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17:05 < KBme> hallas: judging involves...well..judging.  i said I wasn't
sure, which is exactly the opposite.  thanks for playing
17:05 < hallas> KBme: ;) fair enough
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17:06 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gSa9j by [Roger Peppe] in
go/src/pkg/container/list/ -- container/list: make Remove return Value of removed
element.
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17:37 < Surma> Hey guys.  Got a question: if do something like this: ``s, ok
:= somemap["a_key"].(string)'' which value will ok hold?  the one from the map,
the one from the type assertion?  both (AND'd)?
17:38 < Namegduf> I think the type assertino.
17:38 < Namegduf> *assertion
17:38 < Namegduf> The map lookup is being done in a single-value context, to
do a type assertion on it.
17:39 < Surma> makes sense, thanks :)
17:39 < Surma> so, this will panic, if the key doesn't exist, right?
17:39 < Namegduf> No; if a key doesn't exist it returns a zero value.
17:39 < Surma> oh, I guess I fell behind
17:39 < Surma> thanks :)
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17:58 < KBme> so, anyone who used netchans: i'm trying to import a channel
exported from a different process, i have to use the same name, right?  so if i
export a channel with name "foochannel" i should be able to import that..
17:58 < cbeck> Yes
17:58 < KBme> thing is this is the reply i get from netchan: netchan export:
sending error to client:no such channel: foochannel
17:59 < cbeck> Hmm
17:59 < KBme> and on the client side netchan import: response error:no such
channel: foochannel
17:59 < cbeck> It's been a while since I used it
17:59 < cbeck> Let me see..
17:59 < KBme> gimme a sec i'll paste the code
18:00 < KBme> client: http://pastie.org/1284901
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18:00 < KBme> server: http://pastie.org/1284900
18:02 < KBme> thing is that Import doesn't return an error
18:02 < cbeck> Are you sure using localhost:0 will work?
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18:03 < KBme> that's what netchan_test uses
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18:03 < KBme> and the client is definitely connected to the server
18:03 < cbeck> Ok
18:03 < KBme> because both the client and the server are outputting stuff
when the client tries to import a channel
18:04 < KBme> (apparently netchan does some logging itself)
18:04 < KBme> because although err is nil, i get a logged error from netchan
18:04 < cbeck> Yeah, I remember having issues with that
18:06 < cbeck> I think I see it, one sec
18:07 < KBme> ohh
18:07 < cbeck> ReadString returns the delimiting '\n' as well
18:07 * KBme waits goggly-eyed
18:07 < KBme> ahh
18:07 < KBme> ok i'll try without that
18:07 < KBme> damn
18:07 < KBme> cbeck: what would be the easiest way to remove that pesky \n?
18:08 < cbeck> Slice it
18:08 < cbeck> str = str[:len(str) - 1]
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18:08 < KBme> yep
18:08 < cbeck> or use strings.TrimWhitespace
18:08 < KBme> thanks lemme see
18:08 < KBme> even better
18:08 < KBme> ok
18:09 < cbeck> Sorry, it's TrimSpace
18:09 < KBme> yes, that was it
18:09 < KBme> lemme see sending on that channel now
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18:12 < KBme> hmmm netchan doesn't check the channel types
18:12 < KBme> that's a bummer
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18:19 < cbeck> Yeah =/
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18:23 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gSi6s by [Peter Mundy] in go/doc/ -- doc: fix
go_spec spelling errors
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18:49 < KBme> cbeck: so do you know why when I do val, ok := <- chan
//the channel doesn't seem to block, it just returns ok = false
18:50 < cbeck> Because the two value version of a channel read is
non-blocking
18:50 < KBme> aww ok, i see
18:50 < KBme> dammit that took forever to debug
18:50 < KBme> lol
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19:09 < anticw> KBme:
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Communication_operators
19:10 < KBme> yep
19:10 < KBme> thanks
19:12 < KBme> is there a way to wait for all goroutines to finish before
exiting?
19:16 < KBme> nvm found the go-nuts thread
19:25 < KBme> well today was nice: learnt how to use netchan and jsonrpc
19:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gSoiV by [Robert Griesemer] in 4 subdirs of
go/src/ -- go/ast: change embedded token.Position fields to named fields
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21:02 < Yuioup> very quiet channel isn't it?
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21:19 < cbeck> At the moment
21:20 < gzmask> Too many bull won't get things done.  especially for coders
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21:29 < saschpe> hi, anyone here that is interested in Go packages for
openSUSE?
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22:09 < SirPsychoS> anyone know why cgo would emit the error "unrecognized
go type -" ?
22:09 < SirPsychoS> looking at the cgo source, it seems to be implying that
there is a Go type called "-" being parsed somewhere...
22:09 < SirPsychoS> s/error/warning/
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22:35 < thebarberian> does anyone work with the template package?
22:36 < thebarberian> any idea how to escape {}?
22:37 < thebarberian> I mean if I include JS code function a(){ DO
SOMETHING} I would get an error when I try to parse this as a template...  :(
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22:38 < KBme> Quote?
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22:38 < thebarberian> single?  double?  I will try one sec...
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22:39 < KBme> o
22:39 < KBme> no
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22:39 < KBme> strings.Quote iirc
22:39 * KBme just closed godoc..
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22:40 < Tonnerre> mmm godot
22:40 < KBme> strconv.Quote
22:41 < thebarberian> KBme: how would that work from within the template?
22:42 < KBme> i dunno in the language itself this is how you do it..i didn't
understand the question then
22:42 < thebarberian> KBme: have you used "template" package?
22:42 < KBme> nope
22:43 < KBme> ah i see
22:44 < thebarberian> well they give you this format to inject data into a
template {var} (well var is contained inside the data structure you pass to the
demplate)
22:44 < KBme> ok
22:44 < KBme> and you want to display a simple {, i see
22:44 < thebarberian> yes
22:44 < KBme> godoc uses template
22:44 * KBme checks godoc code
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22:47 < SirPsychoS> heh, I just wrote a vim macro that basically processes C
function prototypes into cgo wrappers for them
22:48 < SirPsychoS> obviously they still need individual attention
afterwards, for stuff like replacing pointer-returned stuff with multiple returns,
but it's a start
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22:53 < KBme> thebarberian:
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/7121e4d6991b6acc/e00819cdf30c1d12?#e00819cdf30c1d12
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22:54 < thebarberian> KBme: very nice thank you
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--- Log closed Wed Nov 10 00:00:15 2010