--- Log opened Sat Nov 27 00:00:35 2010
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00:24 < plexdev> http://is.gd/hQw2i by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/ -- A+C: Add
Harley Laue (individual CLA)
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01:32 < crazy2be> I'm looking to create a webserver/dynamic website in go,
and i'm wondering if there is any way to "modularize" individual bits of http
functionality.
01:32 < crazy2be> like /photos would be a seperate executable from /videos
or /news
01:32 < crazy2be> and i'm looking to do it with as little overhead as
possible
01:34 < crazy2be> i hear that there is some go module that provides fastcgi
functionality- is this relitively compatable with the existing http package?
01:36 < crazy2be> because i would rather not rewrite all my existing
functionality
01:36 < crazy2be> but i also realize that having the entire webserver as one
executable is prone to failure
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01:42 < Tv> crazy2be: not go but you might like mongrel2
01:42 < Tv> crazy2be: (or not -- in which case you might enjoy varnish or
nginx)
01:42 < crazy2be> so many choices!
01:42 < Tv> crazy2be: now, if you want to reimplement such a frontend in go,
that's called a reverse http proxy ;)
01:43 < crazy2be> oh, that would give me some terms to google, thanks!
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02:05 < crazy2be> oh, varnish is cool
02:05 < crazy2be> now to see if my sysadmin likes that idea
02:08 < crazy2be> Tv: i'm not quite sure i understand what mongrel2 is, or
rather, how it integrates into the webpage serving pipline
02:09 < crazy2be> is it essentially a reverse http proxy?
02:09 < Tv> yeah, except with a custom protocol
02:10 < crazy2be> huh, i actually think it's a cool idea
02:10 < crazy2be> how much overhead does something like that add?  or is
that on the FAQ :P
02:12 < crazy2be> ...which i cannot find
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02:36 < CodeWar> goroutines => is there a way to pass a queue to it such
that " go queue_name function(param1, param2) queues function against queue_name
02:37 < CodeWar> I understand queue.add( closure) will do the same but I m
hoping the use the native async method invocation mechanism of the language
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02:40 < uriel> CodeWar: I have no clue what you are trying to do
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02:40 < uriel> what is a 'queue' in this sense?
02:40 < CodeWar> go func(param1,param2) if this is asynchronous you must be
queuing this some place and draining that queue using multuiple worker threads?
02:40 < uriel> if there are CPUs available, and you go some function, Go
will run it, why wait?
02:41 < CodeWar> uriel, can you point me to more details about how go
parses/queues/executes work ..  effectivego and tutorial didnt have much ebyond
usage
02:41 < uriel> if you are doing things in Go, I'd recommend forgetting about
'threads'
02:42 < uriel> you would have to read the runtime scheduler, but why do you
care?
02:42 < CodeWar> uriel, I already have ..  i mcoming from Verilog background
so believe me I m used to async work launches
02:42 < uriel> any available goroutines are run if there are avilable cpus,
when a goroutine blocks, another takes its place
02:43 < uriel> if you want to do a bunch of stuff in parallel, why would you
need to 'queue' anything?
02:43 < CodeWar> as to why it matters : standard queueing theory viz., write
throttling / priority / scheduling / timed queues / drain rate of queues
02:43 < uriel> and if not, then you need to sync somehow, and that is what
channels are for
02:43 < uriel> I have no clue why any of that matters, the whole point of Go
is that you let the runtime figure it out
02:43 < CodeWar> uriel, never mind if you are not sure why any of that
matters we have nothing more to discuss :-)
02:44 < uriel> but then, I'm not smart enough to understand most of that
stuff, which is part of the reason why I love Go
02:44 < uriel> CodeWar: it all depends what *problem* you are trying to
solve
02:44 < CodeWar> hmm let me try an example ...
02:44 < uriel> if you start trying to solve something by looking at the
kinds of solutions you are familiar with, then you are doing things backwards
02:45 < CodeWar> go read block 1 ; go read block 2 ; go read block 3 ;
compute resutls of block 3 ; add results of block 1 and 2
02:45 < CodeWar> here being able to launch block 1 and 2 reads async allows
you to make fwd progress yet get prefetching benefits (std drills of pipelining)
02:46 < uriel> you are confusing the launching of gorutines with their
synchronization, which is done via channels
02:47 < CodeWar> huh?
02:47 < uriel> laungh a couple of goroutines, pass them a channel to send
stuff they have read, pass that channel to another goroutine that reads form it,
...
02:47 < CodeWar> gosh I understnad what channels do Grrr thats the easy part
:-)
02:47 < uriel> so what is the problem?
02:48 < CodeWar> did you want to re read what I wrote earlier about standard
advantagse of separate queues as against a global queue?
02:48 < uriel> if you want to read stuff in parallel while you do some work,
that is how you do it, you have a goroutine that does the reading, and passes on
stuff via a channel to the goroutine doing the processing
02:49 < uriel> I didn't see any of that
02:49 < uriel> there is no 'queue' as far as I can see
02:49 < uriel> just goroutines doing work or blocking waiting for work
02:49 < CodeWar> uriel, never mind :-)
02:50 < uriel> I'm not very smart, but this all seems rather trivial to me,
i still have no clue what real problem you are trying to solve
02:52 < CodeWar> priority for one
02:55 < uriel> why do you need priorities?  stuff will do work until it
blocks
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02:56 < uriel> if you want to give priority to one input, read from it first
instead of doing a select
02:56 < uriel> but I doubt that is what you mean
02:56 < uriel> and again, I have no clue what real problem you are trying to
solve
02:57 * uriel thinks you are looking at things from a *way* low level perspective,
which is precisely what Go frees you from
02:57 < CodeWar> with respect are you a user or a dev of go-nuts..  I dont
want to spend time discussing basic queuing /async theories
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03:18 < jeff2> what is the best way to declare an enumerated type without
its constants being numerical?
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03:23 < uriel> CodeWar: what is a 'dev of go-nuts'?
03:23 < uriel> jeff2: dunno, use strings?
03:23 < uriel> what is wrong with numerical constants?
03:25 < jeff2> uriel: is it possible to declare the constants to evaluate to
their name but as a string, without having to repeat the constant name and its
value?
03:26 < jeff2> type Opcode2 string const (FOO="FOO"; BAR) causes BAR to be
defined as "FOO", but I'd like it to be "BAR" (etc.)
03:37 < uriel> jeff2: then type BAR="BAR"
03:37 < uriel> maybe one could propose that ioata could work with string
constants in some way, but really, again: why would one want that?
03:38 < uriel> integer contants work great, they are simple and efficient
03:41 < jeff2> uriel: well, it would be nice if I didn't have to repeat
X="X" for each item.  and I could use integer constants, but there seems to be no
easy way to map the integer value back to the constant name
03:45 < uriel> hmmmmm...  I guess that could be a good point, although you
could then instead keep a map or something
03:46 < uriel> making iota for string constants mean 'the same as the name
of the constant' would really solve this nicely, but seems like a rare enough
thing...
03:47 < uriel> I guess you could post to golang-nuts or fill an issue about
it
03:47 < crazy2be> what would be the purpose of that?  I don't see how it
would be useful most of the time
03:48 < uriel> that way you could do const ( FOO=iota; BAR; BAZ; ...)
03:48 < uriel> er, blah
03:48 < crazy2be> yeah, but why would you want to create string constants
that just map to their variable value?
03:48 < crazy2be> *variable name
03:49 < uriel> crazy2be: only reason I can think of is what jeff2 said, that
you can print them nicely
03:50 < crazy2be> hrm
03:50 < uriel> actually, my suggestion wouldn't work, can't think of a good
syntax that both makes clear what iota is doing for strings, and is not ambiguous
03:51 < uriel> you could require const (FOO=iota "FOO"; BAR; BAZ;)
03:51 < crazy2be> well iota would imply incrementation if alone
03:51 < crazy2be> at least if you look at how it is used for integers
03:51 < uriel> but that is rather ugly, and what if you do: const (FOO=iota
"blah"; BAR)
03:51 < uriel> what would that mean?
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03:52 < crazy2be> error?
03:52 < crazy2be> but it is ambigous
03:52 < uriel> jeff2: I haven't looked, but there might be ways to look up
that stuff for int consts using reflection
03:53 < uriel> crazy2be: could be an error, yea, but would look weird
03:53 < uriel> I guess one could do "blah1" "blah2" "blah3" in those cases,
but the use for that is way beyond marginal
03:53 < crazy2be> what i would do is have like my int constants, and then
have a map[int]string that held a description of each const
03:54 < crazy2be> although that could become a pain
03:54 < uriel> crazy2be: you can do that, but it kind of negates the
advantae of having iota :)
03:54 < crazy2be> it would be cool if you had a builtin documentation system
that only consumed memory in debug mode
03:54 < crazy2be> so you could do like
03:55 < crazy2be> Blar int "Does cool stuff"
03:55 < uriel> still, just having const (FOO="FOO"; BAR="BAR"; BAZ="BAZ")
should be simple enough
03:55 < crazy2be> and then you could somehow find out the description of
Blar through some language mechinism
03:56 < uriel> in any case, it all seems like lots of complication for
something that it is not a big problem IMHO
03:56 < crazy2be> generally yeah
03:56 < crazy2be> if you have a constant's name, like FOO, in your code, you
should be able to print the name using some go functions
03:56 < uriel> iota is already a neat improvement over C style enums
03:56 < uriel> I think it is enough
03:57 < crazy2be> if you have a number that is no directly a named variable
it's more difficult
03:57 < crazy2be> since you would have to look through all your constants
for the one that matches
03:57 < crazy2be> or something
03:57 < crazy2be> *not
03:57 < uriel> well, but part of the point of consts is that they are *not*
necessarily unique
03:59 < crazy2be> i've not really worked with const ints :P
03:59 < crazy2be> heh
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04:00 < crazy2be> on another note, what is the difference between const
[]byte and string
04:00 < crazy2be> Is it purely symantic?
04:01 < crazy2be> hmm konversation doesn't seem to have a spell checker...
04:02 < crazy2be> *semantic
04:02 < crazy2be> like, is there a functional difference in the way the
runtime handles them?
04:03 < crazy2be> or is it purely cosmetic?
04:03 < crazy2be> that is, string is essintially a typedef (pardon the C++)
for const []byte
04:03 < crazy2be> is that true?
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04:50 < Axsuul> who uses Go in practice?
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06:19 < KBme> I only use it in theory
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14:12 < soapy_illusions> hey, does anyone know the right way to do this in
go (compiler is throwing an error): var array [len(otherArray)]int
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14:14 < exch> soapy_illusions: you can't define a fixed array with a
variable length, it needs to be a literal integer.  Do you need an array, or can
it be solved with a slice?  In which case, you can do: array := make([]int,
len(otherArray))
14:15 < soapy_illusions> exch: I do not think I need an array, I just was
not sure what the difference was between arrays and slices (will go back and read
that again)
14:16 < soapy_illusions> A slice is simply like a sub array right?
14:16 < exch> A slice is basically just a window into an underlying fixed
array, or a subset of an underlying array
14:17 < exch> Almost everything in Go is done with slices, as they are very
convenient and lightweight.  You'll probably hardly ever need to use fixed arrays
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14:17 < soapy_illusions> ohh ok, I just did not realize you could create a
slice from nothing, I thought you had to slice an array which was already declared
14:17 < exch> A slice contains a pointer to an underlying array plus a
length and capacity field which determine how big the slice currently is, and how
big it can get at most
14:18 < exch> nope, you can make em at will.  The underlying array
associated with it will be created for you automatically
14:18 < soapy_illusions> exch: Ahhh I was missing that last bit of info,
thanks a lot
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16:54 < KBme> anyone know how log.New works?  i'm trying logger :=
log.New(os.Stderr, "ircfs", log.Ldate&log.Lmicroseconds&log.Llongfile)
16:54 < KBme> but it seems I'm using the flags wrong since only the prefix
appears
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16:55 < KBme> ah, add them, not bitwise and them.  never mind..
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17:11 < exch> flags are normally OR'd instead of AND'd
17:12 < exch> You use & when checking if a given flag has been set
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17:34 < nictuku> that shows how our documentation lack proper examples
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17:51 < papna> KBme: + only works in some circumstances.  You likely want |
17:57 < KBme> thanks
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18:12 < KBme> anyone can see what the problem is with this networking
example: http://pastie.org/1328362 ?
18:13 < KBme> i have a nc -l -p 2222 -c "/bin/bash -c 'while read line; do
echo $line; logger $line; done'" running on localhost
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18:21 < KBme> the read doesn't work
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18:34 < KBme> ok i figured it out: needed to flush the write buffer
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18:39 < exch> hm.  Go's typeless constants are making my life difficult
:<
18:40 < nsf> they aren't really typeless
18:40 < nsf> you can make typed constants as well
18:40 < nsf> const Pi float64 = 3.1415
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18:50 < exch> yea I know, but the ones which do not explicitely have a type
define make the utilization of the AST tree a bit difficult
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18:51 < exch> I'm translating Go to a different language/compiler which must
have constants explicitely typed
18:51 < exch> The only solution I see is to have the actual value being
assigned evaluated at compile time and then check what type it has
18:51 < exch> For a literal value that's doable, but for an expression it
becomes a different matter entirely
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18:59 < nsf> you can always do the full type inference
18:59 < nsf> it's not very easy, but isn't hard either
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19:00 < exch> What do you mean by that?
19:00 -!- kanru1 [~kanru@61-228-156-180.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts
19:00 < nsf> well, Go deduces type of consts and you can do that as well
19:00 < nsf> types*
19:01 < exch> Probably
19:01 < nsf> I do partial type inference in gocode
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19:01 < nsf> but not consts though
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19:08 < zozoR> is it possible to force a cleanup of some memory?
19:08 < nsf> nope
19:08 < zozoR> aww
19:08 < nsf> zozoR: GC is crappy, it will be rewritten in future
19:08 < zozoR> im trying to write a sudoku solver with concurrent
programming
19:09 < nsf> Russ said that he will work on it very soon, although I have no
idea what is he planning to do
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19:09 < nsf> zozoR: I've seen it (sudoku solver using channels) somewhere
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19:09 < zozoR> the go routines that returns with failure doesnt get cleaned
up for some reason i think
19:09 < zozoR> or my code is pretty bad
19:09 < zozoR> one of those :D
19:10 < zozoR> so it hogs all my memory after a few seconds
19:11 < nsf> show me the code, maybe something is wrong
19:11 < nsf> I don't know
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19:11 < zozoR> ok, just a sec
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19:13 < zozoR> http://pastebin.com/YX1S1MsM
19:14 < zozoR> line 13-32 i believe are the important once
19:14 < zozoR> ones*
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19:16 < nsf> hm..
19:16 < nsf> it looks like an infinite loop
19:17 < nsf> let's see, let me compile and run it
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19:17 < zozoR> then youll need the rest of the code
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19:17 < nsf> :(
19:17 < zozoR> i didnt at the top of it
19:17 < zozoR> cause its just IO :P
19:17 < nsf> then ok
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19:18 < zozoR> http://pastebin.com/cMNzuYFG
19:18 < zozoR> the whole thing
19:18 < zozoR> :)
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19:18 < nsf> ok, compiling
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19:18 < nsf> sudoku.go:6: can't find import: ./SDKobj
19:19 < nsf> :(
19:19 < nsf> I guess I should remove the import
19:19 < zozoR> cause its split in two files
19:19 < zozoR> you can remove the import if you paste it in one
19:19 < nsf> ah
19:19 < nsf> I see :)
19:20 < nsf> well
19:20 < nsf> I guess I need input file in order to run it
19:21 < nsf> fmt.Println("Fuuck, error i læsning af fil!")
19:21 < nsf> :D
19:21 < zozoR> ^^
19:22 < zozoR> oh i think i know what is wrong with it
19:22 < zozoR> maybe
19:22 < zozoR> it just keeps adding Sudoku objects to the stack of memory
19:23 < zozoR> till it reaches the end
19:23 < nsf> yes
19:23 < madari_> I made a little web app with a go backend last weekend...
if you are bored you can check it out: http://wall-r.com/paper :)
19:23 < zozoR> unlike if i did it recursively, it would clean up while it
ran through everything, here, i run through every possible action at the same time
19:23 < zozoR> so no wonder i hogs memory :D
19:24 < nsf> madari_: is it rendered via js canvas?
19:25 < zozoR> so basicly, you just need lots of ram to do this
19:25 < zozoR> still takes a lot of time though
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19:28 < madari_> nsf: the "minimap" is rendered using a canvas..  the grid
is just a bunch of divs
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19:31 < nictuku> madari_, nice :-)
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19:33 < zozoR> on the other hand, they should be deleted after starting all
possible numbers for a field.  meh, GC :D
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19:34 < zozoR> could be nice a gc package so you manually could do cleanup
if nercicary ^^
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19:34 < nsf> maybe it's not GC's fault
19:34 < nsf> I'm not sure
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19:34 < zozoR> necessary* god i spell bad
19:34 < zozoR> :D
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19:35 < zozoR> after returning, it should be cleaned up
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19:36 < |Craig|> madari_: pretty neat, though & and < just makes an empty
box, and I haven't found any non ascii characters that work
19:36 < zozoR> the go routine + its vars SHOULD be freed when the go routine
returns
19:36 < nsf> zozoR: is it returns?
19:37 < nsf> argh..  my english sucks too
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19:37 < nsf> does it return?  :)
19:37 < zozoR> i dont command it to
19:37 < zozoR> but it should when it reaches the end of the function?
19:37 < nsf> it should yeah
19:38 < zozoR> there is no infinit loops im pretty sure
19:38 < nsf> the problem is
19:38 < zozoR> it just starts a few go routines then leaves the function
thus stoppin its own goroutine
19:38 < nsf> when you run a goroutine
19:38 < nsf> 'go whatever()'
19:39 < nsf> it is not executed immediately
19:39 < nsf> it is queued for execution
19:39 < nsf> and when scheduler runs it gets executed
19:39 < nsf> but I can't tell whether it runs or not by staring at the
source code
19:40 < nsf> and if it runs finite ammount of them
19:40 < nsf> it's fine
19:40 < nsf> should work
19:40 < nsf> otherwise I don't know :D
19:40 < nsf> probably I'm totally wrong
19:41 < zozoR> well, as far as i know, it should grab a copy of my sudoku
object and put it on the go routine (even if its qued), and then enter, freeing
the sudoku object
19:41 < zozoR> thats what i hope for atleast :D
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19:43 < zozoR> enter = return when i write
19:43 < zozoR> :3
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20:23 < madari_> |Craig|: :(...  < and & work for me tho
20:23 < madari_> and i've seen people write all sort of russian symbols and
stuff =)
20:24 < madari_> it's just that the input mechanism is broken and discards
all modifier-keys
20:24 < madari_> so unless you've got an cool utf-8 symbol on your keyboard,
you can't send it :(
20:24 < |Craig|> ah, let me try something....
20:26 < |Craig|> even sending funny keystrokes via applscreipt events does
not let me do < & or funny unicode stuff
20:26 < madari_> a better way might be to create a hidden input-box
somewhere and capture it's contents constantly, but it would have its own problems
too
20:26 < madari_> |Craig|: i believe they are not fired to the browser as
"keypress" or "keydown" events
20:26 < |Craig|> > does work, and so do most shift symboals like !@#$%...
but & and < make blank boxes
20:27 < madari_> :(
20:27 < madari_> what kind of keyboard layout do you have?
20:27 < |Craig|> my ascii art spam bot applescript works...
20:27 < |Craig|> madari_: standard american english applt keyboard
20:27 < |Craig|> *apple
20:29 < madari_> weird
20:29 < |Craig|> madari_: looks like at least < shows up if I refersh the
page, just not when I type it
20:30 < |Craig|> & does the same thing (though it looks kinda odd in that
font)
20:30 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Read error:
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20:30 < |Craig|> must be an issue in the browser side rendering
20:31 < |Craig|> I'll try firefox
20:32 < madari_> type this in your console and observe the top left corner:
paper.send(0, 0, 32, '♥'.charCodeAt(0), 'foo');
20:32 < madari_> äähh
20:32 < madari_> insert any utf-8 character there
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20:32 < |Craig|> works fine in firefox, just no safari
20:33 < madari_> ok
20:33 < madari_> I can reproduce the issue (with safari too)
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20:33 < madari_> thanks for this!
20:34 < madari_> nictuku: thanks :)
20:34 < |Craig|> madari_: glad I could help.  its a pretty cool thing (app?)
20:34 -!- terrex [~terrex@84.122.72.127.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #go-nuts
20:34 < madari_> thanks...  yeah it was just a quick experiment - i don't
know what to call it either :)
20:35 < |Craig|> Makes me think I should port the backend of my evolving
fractals web app to go
20:35 < madari_> I did a little shameless advertising in reddit earlier this
week and got over 740k "updates" in less than 24h
20:35 < madari_> it was really nuts :)
20:35 < |Craig|> maybe it would not alwayse be down if I make it in go...
20:35 < madari_> the ultimate trolling board
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20:36 < moraes> madari_, what server is that?
20:36 < madari_> go for it!  i love coding go since you are always learning
something new :)
20:37 < moraes> (pretty nifty btw)
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20:37 < madari_> moraes: what do you mean by server?  it's a linode virtual
machine in london :)
20:37 < madari_> running this: https://github.com/madari/go-socket.io
20:38 < |Craig|> I wonder how common my reaction was.  First I tried symbols
that need special handling in html, then unicode, then wrote a spam bot for it.
20:38 < madari_> moraes: thanks
20:38 < moraes> oh.
20:38 < moraes> how well it handled 740k in 1 day?
20:38 < madari_> moraes: no sweat..  none at all
20:39 < madari_> but i managed to fix some issues and that was good
20:39 < moraes> it looks like a ruby thing because its all cool
20:39 < madari_> the go-socket.io project is still really immature and ugly,
but i'll try to make it better a little at a time
20:39 * moraes is full of prejudice
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20:40 < madari_> :)
20:41 < madari_> i'm actually trying to learn some video editing to turn
those 740k updates into a 1-2min timelapse
20:42 < |Craig|> madari_: just write an app to generate the video in go :)
20:43 < Tv> madari_: mencoder can do files of jpgs to video with a
oneliner..
20:43 < madari_> I already replayed all of it and screen recorded it with
quicktime, but now I found out that imovie sucks donkey bal**
20:44 < Tv> madari_: does go-socket.io do more than websockets?
20:44 < Tv> ah yes it does seem to
20:44 < Tv> awesome
20:45 < madari_> Tv: yes it does them all
20:45 < madari_> :9
20:45 < |Craig|> madari_: as for doing it in imovie, you can increase the
play rate, but probably not enough.  So speed up, export, import speed up.....
20:45 < madari_> the docs are a little outdated and so on..  bare with me
20:45 < madari_> |Craig|: yeah I noticed :)
20:46 < madari_> but can you have like multiple video tracks in imovie?
20:46 < |Craig|> madari_: I don't think so.  Best you can get is some
overlap from trasitions
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22:08 < brianketelsen> greetings go people
22:09 < exch> lo
22:09 < brianketelsen> i'm trying to create a logger that logs to file...
22:09 < brianketelsen> The Logger.New method takes an io.Writer
22:09 < brianketelsen> how do I make one of those for a file?
22:10 < brianketelsen> does anyone have an example to point me at?
22:10 < Tv> brianketelsen: an open file implements that interface..
22:10 < exch> Anything that exposes the Write() function as defined in
io.Writer will do.  For a file, you can do: fd, err := os.Open("myfile',
os.O_CREATE|os.O_APPEND, 0600)
22:11 < brianketelsen> so I just open a file and use the file object/handle?
22:11 < exch> you can then pass fd to log.New()
22:11 < brianketelsen> wow
22:11 < brianketelsen> I was really over-complicating that
22:12 < exch> oh, you should add os.O_WRONLY to those flags as well
22:13 < exch> and it seems that O_CREATE is actually O_CREAT.  That's what I
get for not reading the docs before I type stuff into irc -.-
22:17 < brianketelsen> I love this language
22:17 < brianketelsen> thanks!
22:17 < exch> np
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22:41 < madari_> |Craig|: btw i managed to fix the safari issue
22:41 < |Craig|> madari_: cool
22:42 < |Craig|> madari_: yep, its fixed
22:42 < madari_> ok, nice...  thank you =)
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23:00 < exch> hmm.  the type inference approach works nicely to resolve
untyped const and vars
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23:25 < krutcha> anybody use go-gtk much?  It keeps crashing on me
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23:31 < madari_> |Craig|: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-FxbWak9vY ...
quite boring tho :) and i forgot the music...
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--- Log closed Sun Nov 28 00:00:18 2010