--- Log opened Tue Feb 08 00:00:05 2011
00:00 < skelterjohn> interesting plan
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00:32 < dforsyth> the reason i was asking about compilers earlier is because
i was wondering if anyone had tried to target dalvik
00:36 < skelterjohn> i've never even heard of dalvik
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00:40 < cde> google's java on android, but with a different bytecode to
avoid sun's patents
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01:17 < TheSeeker> hmm, is Go support for android (arm?) more or less
complete than for windows?
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01:31 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YbUqQ8 by [Ken Thompson] in go/src/cmd/5g/ --
peep: fix optimization bug
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02:05 < uriel> TheSeeker: probably about the same, but the missing bits are
probably different,
02:05 < uriel> both seem to be rather complete this days, I think
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02:14 < Namegduf> linux/arm is fairly complete, I hadn't heard of anything
else for Android.
02:14 < Namegduf> I guess you'd use the C API?
02:17 < adu> what C API?
02:17 < TheSeeker> cgo
02:17 < Namegduf> The NDK stuff
02:17 < adu> the only C API for Android is libc
02:17 < TheSeeker> ah, hmm.
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02:18 < adu> you can do stuff in JNI like call into java objects from C and
stuff, but I wouldn't call that a C API
02:18 < Namegduf> adu: The Android NDK exists.  I have no idea whether it
can do this, or not, but it does exist.
02:18 < adu> Namegduf: do what?
02:18 < adu> write Android apps in Go?
02:19 < Namegduf> Yes.
02:19 < adu> I don't see how
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02:19 < Namegduf> I didn't say it worked, I said I hadn't heard anything
about it.
02:20 < adu> probably because Go was designed from the ground up for
stand-alone command-line tools
02:20 < adu> it is currently impossible to write a shared library in Go,
which is required for writing Android apps in C
02:20 < Namegduf> Oh, then uriel was incorrect and Go support for Android is
non-existent.
02:21 < adu> Namegduf: go might support ARM, but that's different than
Android
02:21 < adu> I've written 2 Android apps in C, so I know the process well
02:21 < exch> go apps compiled for android operate entirely outside of the
'android environment'
02:21 < adu> you need to write a shared library, that's the only way
02:21 < Namegduf> Yeah, I didn't know that.
02:21 < Namegduf> Wait a sec.
02:21 < Namegduf> The first thing I said.
02:21 < Namegduf> 02:15 <Namegduf> linux/arm is fairly complete, I
hadn't heard of anything else
02:21 < Namegduf> for Android.
02:22 < Namegduf> The first thing I said was exactly that.
02:22 < adu> ok
02:22 < Namegduf> It was in reply to some stuff other people said.
02:22 < Namegduf> I didn't bring it up.
02:22 < adu> then you can write executables for ARM in Go
02:22 < exch> Isn't the new andriod release supposed to allow 'native'
applications?  Perhaps that could change matters
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02:23 < Namegduf> I was thinking that.  I don't know anything about it,
though.
02:23 < adu> exch: all Android releases support 'native' apps, the only
thing that's new is that they wrote a class to make it easier
02:23 < exch> ah
02:23 < adu> you still have to write it as a shared library
02:23 < exch> for the record: I've never done anything with android, so I'm
just parroting what I read here and there :p
02:24 < adu> its ok
02:24 < adu> I'm full of information
02:25 < adu> so _if_ 6g ever becomes compatible with the shared library
model (which I don't think is ever going to happen), then you could write Android
apps with 6g
02:25 < adu> but from what I hear about gccgo, you can write shared
libraries in Go today
02:25 < adu> I'm still trying to compile gccgo
02:28 < skelterjohn> why do you think 6g won't ever be able to do shared
libraries?
02:30 < exch> dynamic linking is, afaik, not exactly a welcome addition to
the Go world
02:31 < adu> exch: exactly, which is why I think it'll never happen
02:31 < exch> Perhaps with enough pressure, it will happen one day, but I
can't see the devs doing this voluntarily
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02:32 < Rennex> doesn't sound that impossible..  just make a shared library
that launches a Go runtime with some code running there and communicates with that
:)
02:33 < Rennex> not very integrated but would probably do the trick
02:34 < Rennex> *anything* can be solved by adding layers of abstraction ;)
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02:37 < TheSeeker> android -> x86 emulator -> linux -> go?  ;)
02:38 < Rennex> easy!
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02:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/v0MSW0 by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/openpgp/packet/ -- crypto/openpgp/packet: add UserId packet type
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02:52 < adu> x86 emulator on android would be a very bad idea
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02:59 < Rennex> fine, then just run go in an arm-linux VM
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03:07 < dforsyth> when i brought this up, i was talking about compiling to
dalvik byte code
03:07 < TheSeeker> Nobody ever accused me of having good ideas.
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03:37 < adu> does go have 9P?
03:38 < dforsyth> there are a couple of 9p packages iirc
03:38 < adu> dforsyth: Dalvik is the most poorly documented VM out there
03:39 < dforsyth> bummer
03:43 < adu> can anyone help me install gccgo?
03:43 < adu> I've been trying to install gccgo for about 6 months now
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03:56 < adu> ooo
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04:20 < laurus> In the Go Tutorial, I'm confused about this line: var p
*string = &s What does the & signify?
04:21 < Namegduf> Address of.
04:21 < |Craig|> laurus: same as in C
04:21 < laurus> |Craig|, I don't know C
04:21 < |Craig|> then refer to what Namegduf, address of operator
04:22 < laurus> What is the purpose of having p be equal to the memory
address of s rather than s itself?
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04:22 < laurus> Ohh...  it's not like Java.
04:22 < Namegduf> No, it isn't.
04:22 < |Craig|> laurus: it lets people modify the value, and saves a copy
04:22 < laurus> So if I set p equal to s itself, I'm just setting p equal to
a new copy of the value of s?
04:23 < Namegduf> Yes.
04:23 < laurus> Ok, another question: *p = "ciao" Why not just have p =
"ciao" ?
04:23 < |Craig|> what I said was really ambigious, by saves a copy, I mean
saves time/memory avoiding a copy...
04:23 < Namegduf> Because p is a pointer.
04:23 < Namegduf> You can't set a pointer to a string to a string.
04:24 < Namegduf> *p means "value of the pointer p".
04:24 < Namegduf> Or "the value pointed to by the pointer p"
04:24 < laurus> Ok
04:24 < laurus> p is a pointer because of the & in &s ?
04:24 < Namegduf> p is a pointer because the type was *string.
04:25 < laurus> But isn't *string the value of the pointer string ?
04:25 < Namegduf> No.
04:25 < Namegduf> *string is the type.
04:25 < laurus> Ouch, okay
04:25 < Namegduf> &s is the value.
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04:25 < laurus> Is there anything else more basic than this Tutorial?
04:26 < jesusaurus> i think its more geared towards programmers who
understand c-style pointers, try reading up on that subject
04:26 < Namegduf> I don't think so.
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04:27 < Rennex> at this stage, Go tutorials surely assume knowledge of C so
they don't dwell on explaining pointers...  Go's not exactly a first language to
learn
04:27 < laurus> Rennex, well I know several languages, I just never wanted
to learn C because it seemed a bit "outdated" in terms of practices
04:28 < laurus> So I saw Go as a C replacement for high-performance tasks
04:28 * jesusaurus really likes c (but not c++)
04:29 < |Craig|> Go is lower runtime performance than C, and supposed to be
higher coder performance
04:29 < Namegduf> Go is good at that, but it has pointers and pass-by-value.
04:29 < Rennex> laurus: then just finding a tutorial on pointers should help
:) i don't suppose you know any assembly either?
04:29 < laurus> Rennex, gosh no :)
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04:29 < laurus> I'm primarily familiar with Python, which I think has the
same "pass-by-reference" as Java
04:31 < laurus> Thanks for the help everyone
04:31 < Rennex> ok..  well, pointers shouldn't be too hard anyhow
04:31 < laurus> Rennex, yeah, I think I get it now, it's just the * means
different things when applied to different things...  a bit annoying :P
04:33 < elimisteve> laurus: yup.  When you declare something as, say int*
num, that means num is a pointer to an int
04:33 < Rennex> yeah, the * operator is kind of opposite to the * in type
declarations :)
04:33 < laurus> elimisteve, got it.  I get it now.  Thanks!
04:33 < elimisteve> but when you go to "use" num, num is the pointer (which
is/points to a memory address) and *num is the value stored at that address
04:33 < elimisteve> :-)
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04:36 < laurus> elimisteve, yes, okay, cool
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05:26 < adu> I wonder if there is any value in compiling C to the Go ABI
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05:35 < Viriix> To thread pool in Go or not to thread pool in Go?
05:36 <+iant> Go already thread pools for you
05:36 <+iant> so you must mean to goroutine pool or not to goroutine pool
05:36 < Viriix> mhm
05:37 < Viriix> is there an optimal ammount of threads to maintain?  or is
fire at will the recomended way
05:37 <+iant> starting a new goroutine is pretty cheap, but it does require
a memory allocation or too
05:37 < Viriix> -threads + goroutines
05:37 <+iant> I would fire at will rather than worrying about the optimal
number
05:38 <+iant> it wouldn't be crazy to reuse existing goroutines if it fits
naturally into the program, as it would save a few memory allocations
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09:48 < taruti> Why does 6c suck so much?
09:53 < taruti> no uvlong constants :(
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14:58 * Ina considers writing a YAML library for go.
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14:59 < erus_> Is implements the right word when i do this type child struct
{ parent }
14:59 < temoto> yes
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15:29 < wrtp> erus_: depends on the context.
15:29 < erus_> type sphere struct { Transform; Radius float64 }
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15:31 < skelterjohn> morning
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15:34 < skelterjohn> what's with $GOROOT/src/pkg/crypto/openpgp/packet ?
seems to be a directory full of uncompilable source, sans makefile, just sitting
there taking up room
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15:48 < niemeyer> skelterjohn: It's being worked on
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15:49 < sussman> just went through newbie Go tutorial, and my first program
is giving me a 'deadlock, all go routines are asleep' error
15:49 < sussman> can someone take a quick glance?
http://code.google.com/p/decoder-bot/source/browse/cw-decode.go
15:49 < sussman> I eagerly await the cluebat
15:51 < skelterjohn> i suggest putting in some printlns around your chan
operations
15:51 < skelterjohn> to see which chan is blocking that you don't expect to
be blocking
15:51 < sussman> I expect them all to block when I first set them up; then
my main program starts pushing data into the front of the pipeline
15:52 < skelterjohn> sure, but something is blocking that you don't want to
block, and printlns can help you figure out what
15:52 < sussman> is it bad to launch a bunch of go routines, all connected
by pipes, and all blocking on pipe-reads?
15:52 < skelterjohn> only if nothing pipe-writes?  seriously, do some
diagnostics :)
15:55 < skelterjohn> in the main func you send 5000 values down the channel
15:55 < skelterjohn> in quantizer you recv 100 values
15:55 < skelterjohn> try "for amp := range amplitudes" instead
15:57 < durin42> I think the problem is that it's using unbuffered channels
15:57 < sussman> quantizer reads from its input channel infinitely, actually
15:57 < sussman> in groups of 100
15:57 < durin42> and tries to write into the chunks channel
15:57 < durin42> which eventually via goroutines populates the quants
channel
15:57 < sussman> notice the 100-iteration loop is inside a for {}
15:57 < durin42> but nothing reads from the quants channel
15:57 < durin42> until the end
15:57 < durin42> so it deadlocks
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15:59 < skelterjohn> oh - yeah that's the prob
15:59 < skelterjohn> if you buffer chunks it should be ok, or if you
populate it in a different goroutine from the one used to read quants
16:00 < durin42> I'm in the same room as sussman, I'll try and help him out
16:00 < durin42> (such as I'm able)
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16:00 < skelterjohn> after you send 100 down chunks, the function tries to
write to quants, but no one is reading quants, (since main hasn't send all 5k down
chunks) so it hangs
16:00 < durin42> right
16:00 < sussman> right, I see now, I thought channels had buffers
16:01 < durin42> they can, but you have to ask for 'em
16:01 < sussman> ok, lemme do that then.  :-)
16:01 < cbeck> and they're fixed size
16:02 < skelterjohn> you can give a chan a buffer with make(chan type,
bufferSize)
16:02 < wrtp> it's almost always better to use unbuffered channels
16:03 < sussman> hm, so I think my design is broken then
16:03 < wrtp> unless there's a specific reason for them to be buffered
16:03 < sussman> intstead of pushing 500 values into teh front of the
pipeline, then reading 500 values out the back of it
16:03 < skelterjohn> sussman: put lines 87-91 in a different function, and
invoke it in a new goroutine
16:03 < sussman> I could just push 1, pull 1, in a loop
16:03 < sussman> that should work, right?
16:03 < skelterjohn> no - the problem would just happen faster
16:04 < skelterjohn> oh alternating
16:04 * sussman looks at skelterjohn's suggestion
16:04 < wrtp> skelterjohn has the right idea
16:04 < skelterjohn> yeah that would work, but it's still awkward
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16:05 < sussman> ah, I see, so that way one thread is pushing data into the
pipeline while the main thread simultaneously pulls out results.
16:05 < sussman> I get it.
16:05 < wrtp> in general, it's safer to write in one goroutine and read in
another
16:05 * durin42 sends sussman a patch
16:05 < sussman> ha
16:05 < durin42> yeah, that's what I did
16:05 < sussman> durin42: I expect a patchqueue and pull-request, buddy.
:-)
16:06 < niemeyer> sussman: Think of unix pipes, it's the same case
16:07 < niemeyer> sussman: Hi, btw..  weird how we meet in completely
unrelated contexts :)
16:07 < sussman> yeah, makes sense
16:07 < sussman> ha!
16:07 < cbeck> Except much easier to have multiple writers and multiple
readers
16:08 < niemeyer> cbeck: Hmmm..  not really, but I'd digress
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16:12 < wrtp> niemeyer: oh come on, it *is* much easier to have multiple
reads and writers than with unix pipes.
16:13 < wrtp> at least the semantics are well defined.
16:13 < wrtp> s/reads/readers
16:13 < cbeck> I've had good use of it, several producers exploring
different areas of the problem space all pushing instances down a common pipe
which is shared among a slew of consumers, all of which write to a common channel
read by a single aggregator
16:13 < wrtp> exactly
16:13 < wrtp> i've used it a lot
16:13 < niemeyer> wrtp: I'm not getting into this discussion, sorry
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16:14 < cbeck> No worries
16:14 < wrtp> niemeyer: i understand
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16:14 < sussman> cool, so putting the data-pusher into a goroutine
completely made it work
16:14 < sussman> of course, my channels weren't closed elegantly when the
data ran out.  I'll fix that.
16:14 < sussman> awesome.
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16:15 < niemeyer> sussman: You have multiple writers?
16:15 < niemeyer> s/You/Do you/
16:18 < durin42> No, just one writer
16:18 < wrtp> niemeyer: he doesn't
16:18 < sussman> niemeyer: you saw my code?
16:19 < niemeyer> sussman: No, not yet..  I've scrolled back now, though
16:23 < niemeyer> sussman: Nice..  good use of channels
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16:25 < niemeyer> sussman: Might get a simplification with amp :=
rms(<-chunks), unless you're just experimenting with channels
16:27 < sussman> oh!  nice idea
16:27 < sussman> wait
16:27 < sussman> that syntax *works*?  way cool.
16:28 < durin42> why shouldn't it work?
16:29 < niemeyer> :-)
16:29 < skelterjohn> because the <- operator is unfamiliar to people who
don't use go a lot
16:29 < niemeyer> Indeed
16:29 < erus_> sussman: how does it know the freq of morse signals?
16:30 < sussman> frequency?
16:30 < erus_> yer
16:30 < sussman> read the ALGORITHM doc there, to see how it works
16:30 < sussman> and if you look at proof.hs, you can see the whole thing
working properly in Haskell.  :-)
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16:30 < erus_> oh god 97 lines
16:30 < erus_> i wonder how many i will understand
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16:32 < sussman> I didn't write the Haskell; I've forgotten 90% of it.  My
buddy danderson wrote that proof.hs as proof-of-concept
16:32 < sussman> I'm trying to port it to go
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16:37 < sussman> if you run the haskell program on a .wav file of morse
code, it outputs dashes and dots to stdout.
16:37 < sussman> the plan is to port it to Go, and then eventually turn it
into an android app
16:37 < sussman> I want to hold my phone up to the radio and watch ascii
appear
16:38 < skelterjohn> that would be pretty neat
16:38 < sussman> one of the hurdles at the moment, however, is that I can't
find any sort of Go library to read samples from an audio file
16:38 < waqas> That sounds cool
16:38 < Venom_X> you can run go aon android?
16:38 < sussman> Venom_X: yup.
16:38 < sussman> well, so I hear.  :-)
16:38 < erus_> only rooted
16:38 < erus_> with access to shell
16:38 < sussman> I know I have friends here at google who have done it.
16:38 < erus_> but python and pygame just got ported
16:38 < Venom_X> oh..  well.  I can run php on a jailbroken iphone..
doesn't mean I would
16:38 < sussman> (it just has to speak to the java app via a pipe)
16:39 < Venom_X> why not just write it in java?
16:39 < sussman> because C is 7x faster than Java on android.  at least it
used to be.
16:39 < sussman> I learned that the hard way.  maybe the JIT is better now
16:39 < erus_> andoird 3.0 can build app's entirely in C/C++ :)
16:39 < sussman> and...  I now have an excuse to learn Go
16:40 < sussman> in any case, has anyone seen a library for decoding/reading
data from audio files?
16:40 < erus_> sussman: hang on
16:40 < sussman> I've seen Go libs that wrap existing C libs for 'playing
sounds'
16:40 < erus_> i remember something on github
16:40 < sussman> but that's not internal data access
16:41 < erus_> a writer https://github.com/nf/wav ...
16:42 < sussman> ooh
16:43 < Venom_X> in java you could use minim.
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16:45 < wrtp> sussman: i've written a wav file decoder
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16:56 < Ina> Is there a Go implementation of YAML yet?
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16:57 < niemeyer> Ina: No, but there's labix.org/goyaml
16:57 < niemeyer> Ina: goinstall launchpad.net/goyaml
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16:58 < wrtp> sussman: http://pastebin.com/YRTXgWsc
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16:58 < niemeyer> Ina: I mean "no" because it contains C code inside it, but
it should work well
16:58 < wrtp> it's from a larger piece of code, but you can probably rip out
the relevant bits for your purposes
16:59 < niemeyer> Ina: Erm, I'm sorry
16:59 < niemeyer> Ina: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/goyaml
16:59 < wrtp> it's also quite old code (8 months) so it may no longer work
with the current version of go
16:59 < wrtp> sussman: have fun.  i've gotta go.
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17:08 < sussman> wrtp: thanks!
17:08 < sussman> can I opensource it?  :-)
17:08 < sussman> doh, he's gone
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17:37 < sussman> so who was that wrtp guy?  anyone know his real name or
email?
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17:41 < niemeyer> sussman: Roger Peppe
17:43 < skelterjohn> he's in the go facebook group, heh
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19:01 < erus`> who wants to write me a collada loader ? :D
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19:02 < skelterjohn> what's a collada
19:03 < erus`> scene format
19:03 < erus`> but im using it to load models
19:03 < erus`> because it looks easier than the rest
19:03 < erus`> (3D models)
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19:39 < erus`> whats the best way to read a string list of floats?  regex?
19:39 < aiju> Scanf?
19:40 < erus`> the size is variable
19:40 < aiju> Scanf?  :P
19:40 < aiju> reading one float at once
19:40 < erus`> ugh ok
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19:48 < erus`> aiju: I guess i need to shrink the string every time i call
sprintf
19:48 < erus`> ?
19:49 < aiju> working on strings?
19:49 < aiju> so regex+strconv might actually a better idea
19:49 < erus`> right now i just need a regex for every valid float
19:50 < erus`> or actually just sepreate by white space and let strconv
decide
19:51 < gmilleramilar> is there any way to force a panic in a running go
process (to see stack traces)?
19:52 < nsf> gmilleramilar: SIGABRT should do the job
19:52 < gmilleramilar> tx
19:53 < gmilleramilar> lovely
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19:59 < artefon> gmilleramilar: panic()
19:59 < artefon> gmilleramilar: or log Panic
http://golang.org/pkg/log/#Panic
19:59 < gmilleramilar> actually 'kill -SIGABRT pid' is what I was looking
for.
20:00 < erus`> whats the int n argument in regexp.FindAll*
20:00 < erus`> docs don't say
20:00 < artefon> gmilleramilar: ohh i got it :)
20:01 < nsf> erus`: I think it's an amount of elements to find, -1 for
really _all_
20:01 < nsf> a maximum number*
20:03 < cde> hi nsf
20:03 < nsf> hello
20:04 < erus`> regexp.Compile(`\S+`) gives me 'illegal backslash escape' ...
?
20:04 < nsf> erus`: Go's regexps are not perl compatible
20:04 < cde> is hi more familiar than hello?  which one should be used in
general?
20:04 < nsf> maybe that's the problem
20:04 < nsf> cde: doesn't matter
20:04 < cde> ok
20:05 < nsf> use "howdy"
20:05 < nsf> :)
20:05 < nsf> lol
20:05 < aiju> use "sieg heil"
20:05 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.74.207.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
20:05 < cde> I'll use "hay"
20:05 < erus`> nsf so how do i do all non white space?
20:05 < nsf> howdy pardner :)
20:05 < nsf> erus`: I don't know :) never used Go's regexps
20:05 < aiju> erus`: [^ \t\n\r]
20:05 < erus`> cheers
20:06 < erus`> why dont they implement perl style
20:06 < erus`> thats crazy
20:06 < aiju> because that one sucks
20:06 < pharris> aiju: That doesn't exclude everything in unicode.IsSpace,
though.
20:06 < aiju> pharris: yes, because Unicode is insane
20:06 < pharris> Granted, but I'm just pointing out that it's not the same
thing.
20:07 < aiju> spaces in Unicode is a subject on its own
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20:08 < aiju> perl "regexp" aren't even regexp
20:09 < erus`> its on the wikipedia page
20:09 < pharris> Yeah, but at least they don't succumb to POSIX
[::very-long-character-class-names::]
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20:10 < aiju> locale dependent classes are the worst
20:12 < erus`> xml unmarshall isnt too hard :)
20:12 < jumzi> xml isn't too hard :)
20:12 < aiju> getting rid of xml isn't too hard :)
20:12 * jumzi feels like such a troll
20:14 < cde> use yaml ;)
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20:14 < cde> it isn't too hard either
20:14 < jumzi> And yeah aiju, getting rid of xml is hard because of the
extreme amount of pushing xml is still getting
20:14 < aiju> last time i looked yaml didn't look really good either
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20:17 < mdxi> yaml was pretty awesome to start with.  then it got *really
complex*.
20:17 < mdxi> unless you need things like multiple documents in one stream,
json will probably do you
20:18 < TheMue> As long as I have no interchange to XML based systems I'm
happy to use my SML
(http://www.tideland.biz/projects/tideland-cgl/simple-markup-language)
20:18 < TheMue> Btw sometimes there's no chance to escape *sigh*
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20:24 < cde> http://letsmakerobots.com/view/node/list/robot # very cool
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20:25 < aiju> robotics is boring …
20:27 < erus`> sml looks quite nice actually
20:28 < aiju> erus`: well, it's just S-Expr in green
20:29 < TheMue> aiju: Yep ;)
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20:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/LqUbny by [Gustavo Niemeyer] in go/src/ --
cgo: don't run cgo when not compiling
20:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/4DS7M5 by [Graham Miller] in
go/src/pkg/netchan/ -- netchan: graceful handling of closed connection
20:54 < plexdev> http://is.gd/DR2p0F by [Joe Poirier] in go/include/ --
windows: replace remaining __MINGW32__ instances with _WIN32
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21:35 < twolfe18> is there a way to explicitly specify that a type
implements an interface?
21:35 < exch> Nope.  Go doesnt do that sort of thing.  A type implements an
interface simply by defining the interface methods on said type
21:37 <+iant> well, you can do it by writing something like var dummy
InterfaceType = MyType(0)
21:37 <+iant> I suppose that is more of a test than a specification
21:37 < twolfe18> close enough in my book
21:37 < twolfe18> i guess i just have to 'relax' a bit and write things as i
need them
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21:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/unmHOc by [Robert Griesemer] in go/doc/ -- go
spec: clarification re: method sets of newly declared pointer types
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22:14 < skelterjohn> evening
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22:46 < twolfe18> if i have a struct that contains an array, does the struct
just contain a reference to an array?
22:46 < twolfe18> which would allow me to resize the array without messing
with the size of the struct
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22:47 < skelterjohn> an array or a slice?
22:47 < twolfe18> slice
22:47 < skelterjohn> an array is type, eg, [5]byte
22:47 < twolfe18> sorry
22:48 < skelterjohn> a slice is []byte
22:48 < skelterjohn> then it's just a reference
22:48 < twolfe18> so if i have []myType, that is also a slice
22:48 < skelterjohn> yes
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22:48 < skelterjohn> if the brackets are empty, it's a slice
22:49 < skelterjohn> but a [5]int32 is 20 bytes
22:49 < twolfe18> so if i wanted to change that slice to be bigger, i could
do fooStruct.mySlice = make([]myType, numElems)
22:50 < twolfe18> (presumably the old copy gets GCed)
22:50 < Namegduf> Yes.
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22:50 < twolfe18> thanks
22:50 < Namegduf> A slice is a pointer, length, and capacity, to an array.
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22:50 < Namegduf> The struct is still fixed size, but now it points to a
variably sized array elsewhere.
22:51 < twolfe18> but slices do not resize automatically, correct?
22:51 < twolfe18> their is no equivalent to '<<' in Ruby
22:51 < skelterjohn> depends what you mean, exactly
22:51 < skelterjohn> i don't know what << does in ruby
22:51 < skelterjohn> but you can say "myslice = append(myslice, newitem)"
22:51 < twolfe18> that will resize the slice if it is too small?
22:52 < skelterjohn> yes
22:52 < decaf> slice capacity increase when append() ?
22:52 < twolfe18> and it doesnt do a deep copy if there is enough space
22:52 < skelterjohn> btw - the slice can point to an array of some length
larger than the length of the slice
22:52 < twolfe18> ok, good, that is how i thought it should work
22:52 < skelterjohn> if i have a "var a [20]byte", and "myslice := a[0:5]"
22:52 < skelterjohn> i have a slice of length 5 with an underlying array of
length 20
22:53 < skelterjohn> if i use append on a, then it won't do any allocations
(the first time)
22:53 < twolfe18> if you append 16 times, then will a be reallocated?
22:53 < skelterjohn> yes, it will create a new array of length 40
22:53 < skelterjohn> and copy all the elements from a to the new array
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22:54 < twolfe18> and a will point to the new one, not just the old one?
22:54 < skelterjohn> that's what the return value for append is used for
22:54 < skelterjohn> when a new allocation happens, append returns the slice
backed by the new array
22:54 < twolfe18> ok, for myslice that would be the case, but you could
strand a ref in a
22:54 < skelterjohn> when an allocation does not happen, it just returns the
same old slice
22:54 < skelterjohn> i don't know what you mean
22:55 < twolfe18> if you did 'myslice := append(myslice, elem)' 16 times
22:55 < twolfe18> myslice would point to a larger array
22:55 < decaf> I should have checked the specification
22:55 < skelterjohn> at the end
22:55 < skelterjohn> yes
22:55 < skelterjohn> i don't know what "strand a ref in a" means
22:55 < skelterjohn> a ref to what, and how is it stranded?
22:56 < twolfe18> you initialized myslice := a[0:5]
22:56 < twolfe18> what i mean is, myslice is being updated using append
22:57 < twolfe18> a is just a pointer to some bytes (presumably)
22:57 < twolfe18> if myslice is then pointing to a sequence of bytes that is
not the same as what a initially pointed to
22:57 < skelterjohn> so what is getting stranded?
22:57 < skelterjohn> a still exists
22:57 < twolfe18> give me a sec and i'll wirte up an example
22:57 < skelterjohn> myslice is passed by value
22:58 < skelterjohn> i think i get what you're thinking, and let me see if i
can explain what's going on
22:58 < skelterjohn> the []byte type is a slice type, and is an array
pointer, a length and a cap
22:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/2yDQnT by [Anthony Martin] in go/doc/ -- go
spec: fix a few typos
22:58 < skelterjohn> when you pass it as a parameter, the function isn't
operating on a reference to that slice
22:58 < skelterjohn> it's operating on a new slice that happens to be backed
by the same data
22:59 < skelterjohn> if it decides that the backing data is not large
enough, it will allocate new data and return a slice backed by this new data
22:59 < twolfe18> yes, i understand that, but my question is what happens to
a
22:59 < twolfe18> if you do myslice[0] = 'a'
22:59 < twolfe18> then a[0] == 'a', correct?
23:00 < skelterjohn> yes
23:00 < skelterjohn> an assignment operation on a slice goes to the backing
data
23:00 < twolfe18> basically, if myslice->array =
realloc(myslice->array, 2*myslice->cap) and myslice->array == a, then the
ref a will not be updated
23:01 < skelterjohn> you lost me
23:01 < twolfe18> i'm sorry, i might just be being more pedantic than i need
to be
23:01 < twolfe18> i switched to C :)
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23:01 < twolfe18> imagine myslice is a C struct with an array, size,
capacity
23:01 < skelterjohn> how could myslice->array==a if you just allocated
something into myslice->array
23:02 < twolfe18> it wouldn't :)
23:02 < twolfe18> myslice->array would be updated
23:02 < skelterjohn> that's the part i didn't follow
23:02 < twolfe18> but a wouldnt
23:02 < twolfe18> originally, when you initialize myslice,
23:02 < twolfe18> myslice->array = a
23:02 < skelterjohn> yes
23:03 < twolfe18> then when it runs out of space, myslice->array =
realloc(myslice->array, 2*myslice->cap)
23:03 < twolfe18> but during this process, a does not change
23:03 < skelterjohn> assuming realloc does something sensible
23:03 < skelterjohn> right - after that assignment, myslice forgets about a
23:03 < twolfe18> realloc does what realloc does
23:03 < twolfe18> it might move it, but thats the point of putting
myslice->array on the LHS
23:03 < skelterjohn> i'm not familiar enough with C to know what realloc
does, although i can guess from context
23:04 < twolfe18> basically, if there is memory right after
myslice->array, it will just make it bigger
23:04 < twolfe18> if not, it just calls malloc
23:04 < skelterjohn> neat.
23:05 < skelterjohn> is there any confusion left, btw?
23:05 < twolfe18> i'll just do this up in go and see what happens :)
23:05 < twolfe18> thanks
23:05 < skelterjohn> i feel like you know what's going on
23:05 < skelterjohn> append is very much like realloc
23:05 < exch> Is there an ETA on the next release?  I'm curious about the
new Process api.  it might solve some of my current issues
23:05 < skelterjohn> except instead of giving a new length, you give a new
element
23:06 < decaf> twolfe18:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r68o862HyesJ:research.swtch.com/2009/11/go-data-structures.html+russ+cox+slice&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=ubuntu&source=www.google.com
23:08 < skelterjohn> later
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23:09 < twolfe18> decaf: thanks
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23:20 < erus_> is there a profiler yet?
23:21 < erus_> for go
23:23 < dforsyth_> cmd/prof?
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23:44 < enferex> ...  rebuilding my frontend
23:44 < enferex> woo all done, back to compiler hacking...
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 09 00:00:05 2011