--- Log opened Sun Feb 13 00:00:05 2011 00:00 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 00:02 -!- maattd [~maattd@esc31-1-78-245-92-71.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:08 < erus`> can i cast from interface back to struct? 00:10 < cenuij> if there is no obvious way, there is always reflection. 00:10 < erus`> might aswel bodge a new interface in 00:12 < cenuij> what you are descirbing is a bodge anyway, why describe it as a bodge? 00:15 -!- rpdillon [~user@ip174-65-90-100.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:20 -!- vzx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:24 -!- ShadowIce` [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 00:24 -!- ShadowIce` [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Changing host] 00:24 -!- ShadowIce` [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 00:24 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:24 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts 00:29 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CEE97.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34 -!- vzx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 00:47 -!- Ayoi [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:59 -!- jodaro [~user@poquito.divinia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055056054.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:43 < erus`> How do i get stdin? 01:48 < erus`> never mind 01:48 < erus`> Hello world works! 01:48 < erus`> its 2 am in the morning and i can sleep happy 01:51 < cenuij> ikkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 01:51 < cenuij> kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 01:51 < cenuij> kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 01:51 < cenuij> kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 01:51 < cenuij> kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 01:51 < cenuij> kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk 01:51 < cenuij> kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkko 01:52 < erus`> ? 01:54 -!- fenicks [~christian@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:02 < erus`> https://github.com/tm1rbrt/tomlang check out hello world :) 02:08 < erus`> skelterjohn: you have to try it 02:08 < erus`> it took me HOURS 02:10 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 02:10 -!- ivan` [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #go-nuts 02:11 < plexdev> http://is.gd/NHMQkW by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- code.html: update to reflect that package names need not be unique 02:11 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dSLCqq by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/gob/ -- gob: allow Decode(nil) and have it just discard the next value. 02:12 < exch> esoteric playground languages are always fun :) 02:13 -!- reiddraper_ [~reid@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:16 < exch> erus`: now for a fibonacci generator! 02:17 < erus`> cant set variables yet :P 02:17 < erus`> no conditions either 02:17 < exch> aww :< 02:17 < erus`> only stdin and out 02:17 < erus`> of constants :P 02:17 < exch> https://github.com/jteeuwen/gvm/blob/master/testdata/fib.gvm this is what it looks like in my own scripty thingy 02:18 < erus`> looks like asm 02:18 < exch> thats basically just VM opcodes with a tiny bit of syntax sugar sprinkled ontop :p 02:19 < erus`> Your is built in go too? 02:19 < exch> yes 02:20 < exch> that one is pretty old already. Think I have a somewhat better version around somewhere, but it works 02:20 < exch> By no means meant for practical use. I just like playing with it 02:26 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27 < erus`> nice 02:31 -!- reiddraper [~reid@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 02:32 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 02:35 -!- jesmon [~user@rrcs-69-193-6-191.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 02:43 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@113.132.75.253] has joined #go-nuts 02:45 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:45 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 02:50 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:54 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03 -!- erus` [~tommo@host86-162-225-149.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19 -!- hcl2 [~akuma@75.41.110.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:33 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 03:45 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 03:48 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:50 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 04:09 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has quit [Quit: dchest] 04:14 -!- EricStanL_ [bdbb8732@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.187.135.50] has joined #go-nuts 04:15 < EricStanL_> after install go i star having problems with my keyboard, some keys are not responding well, do you know what i should do? 04:16 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:17 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:19 -!- EricStanL_ [bdbb8732@gateway/web/freenode/ip.189.187.135.50] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:20 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has joined #go-nuts 04:21 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:22 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 04:27 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:33 < anticw_> iant: wrt to gccgo what -O level is used for the pkgs? 04:44 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:46 -!- jesmon [~user@rrcs-69-193-6-191.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00 -!- saturnfive1 [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 05:13 -!- Ina [~Ina@dsl-087-195-206-242.solcon.nl] has joined #go-nuts 05:25 -!- gid [~gid@220.253-195-125.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 05:29 -!- saturnfive1 [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51 -!- l0ve [~l0ve@208-58-71-117.c3-0.fch-ubr1.lnh-fch.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 05:58 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:00 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 06:05 -!- maattd [~maattd@esc31-1-78-245-92-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:17 -!- vice_virtue [~vice@220-253-20-54.VIC.netspace.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 06:29 -!- illya77 [~illya77@214-95-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:42 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@113.132.75.253] has left #go-nuts [] 06:46 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c70af.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 06:54 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 07:18 < taruti> Has anyone got mkfiles for building go packages? 07:25 < vice_virtue> as in a Makefile? 07:28 < vice_virtue> taruti, because there's a youtube video on how to do that. Basically, you can grab one from the $GOROOT/src/pkg/<somepackage>/Makefile and use that... say from fmt. You will need to modify it slightly so that references in it are relative to $GOROOT instead of the current directory, but that's cake 07:28 < taruti> vice_virtue: no, as in a mkfile for mk(1) 07:28 < vice_virtue> oh, my bad 07:30 < jumzi> Still it shouldn't be impossible to build a mkfile referencing that Makefile 07:34 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:04 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 08:06 < user> hey guys, I tried to have two files using 'package main' but when I compile it complains that main is redeclared although I only have a main func in one of the files? surely you are allowed to group several files under the same package? 08:07 < user> is there some linker option needed or something? 08:09 < Namegduf> If it's complaining there's a duplicate package, you're compiling it incorrectly. 08:09 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 08:11 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Client Quit] 08:14 < user> well, main.go (which uses 'package main') imports another file test.go which also uses 'package.main', I compile '6g test.go' and then '6g main.go' which then complains that 'main.go main redeclared in this block, and points to the 'import' line as the previous declaration. 08:14 < user> can't 'package main' be used across several files? 08:18 < Namegduf> Yes, it can. 08:18 < adu> user: that is a very interesting question 08:18 < Namegduf> You are compiling it incorrectly. 08:19 < Namegduf> You don't "import main" in main. 08:19 < Namegduf> And you need to build the whole package at once. 08:19 < Namegduf> 6g test.go main.go 08:19 < user> aha! 08:21 < user> works perfectly, you the man Namegduf! 08:22 < adu> heh 08:22 < adu> Namegduf: how are you today? 08:22 < Namegduf> Okay. 08:23 < adu> I'm thinking of making another blog post about Go 08:25 < adu> also, I gave up on gccgo again 08:26 < adu> it's way too hard to compile 08:41 < vice_virtue> adu, where's your blog? 08:43 < adu> straymindcough.blogspot.com 08:45 < adu> vice_virtue: nice nick 08:45 < vice_virtue> oh, I read your golang proposals post a while ago, good work on that 08:45 < vice_virtue> thanks, adg 08:45 < vice_virtue> adu 08:45 < adu> vice_virtue: my next post will be on a hypothetical Go-- language 08:46 < vice_virtue> Similar to spj's c--? 08:46 < adu> 4 missing features 2 extra features 08:46 < adu> vice_virtue: no, c-- is actually a completely different language than C 08:46 < vice_virtue> oh, whereas go-- would be similar to go... with features removed and added? 08:47 < adu> (Go--) + channels + interfaces + threads = Go 08:47 < adu> basically 08:47 < aiju> so a useless version of Go? 08:48 < adu> no, a runtimeless version of Go 08:48 < Namegduf> It's a testement to how orthagonal Go is that you can fairly cleanly say you're removing those things 08:48 < aiju> you need to remove more for that 08:48 < aiju> slices and strings also depend on the runtime 08:48 < Namegduf> And the resulting specification is fairly clear. 08:49 < adu> for example channels includes "chan" types, and "select" statement, close() and closed() builtin-functions, and (<-) syntax 08:49 < Namegduf> *testament. 08:50 < bartbes> adu: so what are the extra features? 08:50 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 08:50 < adu> vice_virtue: the 2 extra features are the "any" type (to mimic interface{}), and the "free" builtin-function 08:50 < vice_virtue> when you say threads, you mean goroutines? 08:50 < vice_virtue> Is Any defined anywhere? 08:51 < Namegduf> Ah, you're also removing the GC? 08:51 < vice_virtue> I had some sneaking suspicion one of the packages defined an Any type 08:51 < adu> vice_virtue: when I say threads I mean the "go" statement 08:51 < vice_virtue> I'd love generics 08:51 < aiju> haahhahahhaah C-- 08:51 < Namegduf> vice_virtue: There was discussion of aliasing interface{} -> ANy 08:51 < Namegduf> *Any 08:51 < jumzi> i'm confused 08:51 < vice_virtue> and array comprehensions of somesort 08:51 -!- maattd [~maattd@esc31-1-78-245-92-71.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51 < adu> vice_virtue: generics would not be part of Go--, they would be part of Go++ 08:51 < vice_virtue> :) 08:51 < adu> or Go--++ 08:51 < Namegduf> Go++ should also have classes and OO 08:51 < aiju> C-- is crazy 08:51 < Namegduf> And a preprocessor 08:52 < aiju> it lacks variadic arguments, but has a garbage collector? what the fuck? 08:52 < vice_virtue> C-- is an intermediate language, not designed for writing code 08:52 < jumzi> noway 08:52 < adu> I don't like the idea of preprocessors, but I do like the idea of conditional compilation 08:52 < vice_virtue> just designed as a compiler backend 08:52 < vice_virtue> of sorts 08:52 < jumzi> anyhow doesn't go-- seem abit meh? whats the point :P 08:53 < Namegduf> adu: You have conditional complication by putting them in separate files and doing it in your build system. 08:53 < aiju> jumzi: "i don't want to run C because C has meezles" 08:53 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.90.211] has joined #go-nuts 08:54 < adu> jumzi: the point is the evangelism, continued existence, and promotion of Go as a mainstream language, as a platform, as a tool, and as an ecosystem 08:54 < aiju> yes, just what i said 08:54 < adu> Namegduf: in that case I have no need for preprocessors 08:55 < Namegduf> Right. 08:55 < adu> aiju: that is totally not what you said 08:55 < jumzi> meh, c has its place and go does... ppl seem to hear one word and wants to apply that word to everything 08:56 < jumzi> but i suppose c with an updated syntax would be nice 08:56 < nsf> and module system 08:56 < adu> jumzi: Go-- is still so much more than C, it would have better literal syntax, and lambdas, for example 08:57 < adu> and methods 08:57 < Namegduf> Why no interfaces, though? 08:57 < aiju> how do you get closures without a runtime? 08:57 < vice_virtue> I like goroutines and channels 08:57 < Namegduf> Depends what you mean by "a runtime" 08:58 < adu> but each method wouldn't have to be encoded in itables or anything, methods could just be rewritten to mangled function names 08:58 < vsmatck> Closures can be figured out at compile time. 08:58 < aiju> methods without interfaces are completely pointless 08:58 < Namegduf> You can generate one with a simple sequence of instructions 08:58 -!- Aram [~Aram@unaffiliated/aramdune] has joined #go-nuts 08:58 < adu> aiju: so do you think they don't belong in go--? 08:58 < vice_virtue> not completely pointless, aiju 08:59 < vice_virtue> They're more aesthetically pleasing than what C has 08:59 < aiju> they are just syntactic sugar 08:59 < adu> I think methods are a beautiful way of doing template-ish things, like Add() with different types 08:59 < taruti> How does one dump the assembly out of a .8 file? 08:59 < aiju> taruti: probably not at all 08:59 < adu> taruti: I don't know if its possible 09:00 < aiju> you can use 8[gc] -S 09:00 < taruti> 8a is doing something weird... 09:00 < aiju> you can link it and use objdump :P 09:01 < adu> anyways, one of the things I think is crucial for Go's future is to have multiple compilers, and I'd like a compiler (other than gccgo) that allows you to use normal nm/objdump etc, and doesn't require weird ABI marshalling, etc. 09:02 < aiju> i'd like to see a compiler in Go 09:02 < adu> aiju: I thought 6g was written in go 09:02 < aiju> no, it is not 09:02 < adu> ah C 09:02 < jumzi> maybe go--? 09:03 < Aram> it's a first generation compiler, it couldn't have been written in go. 09:03 < adu> sure, I can see writing tons of stuff in Go-- 09:03 < jumzi> not C? 09:03 < Aram> what's Go--? 09:03 < Aram> sounds bad :-). 09:03 < adu> Aram: a non-existant hypothetical language which I'm writing a compiler for 09:04 < aiju> Aram: Go without all the features which make it really different from C 09:04 < vice_virtue> Adu, why do you think a reduced-function version of go is good for its future? 09:04 < aiju> but C is sooo 1970s 09:04 < adu> aiju: that's a terrible characterization 09:04 < jumzi> adu: i agree... he could have phrased allot nicer 09:04 < adu> Go-- has tons of stuff that C doesn't, like maps, dynamic arrays, lambdas 09:04 < Aram> and what does it lack? 09:05 < vice_virtue> C9X has composite literal initialisers 09:05 < Aram> and... why? 09:05 < adu> Aram: interfaces, channels, and threads 09:05 < vice_virtue> which is pretty cool 09:05 < adu> vice_virtue: right, but that's for structs, which are different from maps 09:05 < Aram> what would be the purpose of a lesser go? 09:05 < adu> Aram: a smaller runtime 09:06 < aiju> the only point i see for this would be embedded / microcontroller programming 09:06 < adu> perhaps for embedded applications, or, so that you can write Go runtimes in it 09:06 < vice_virtue> adu, there's the 'tiny' runtime 09:06 < vice_virtue> or was? 09:06 < aiju> vice_virtue: no, there is not 09:06 < aiju> and tiny is not tiny 09:06 < vice_virtue> I think it was abandoned 09:06 < adu> lol 09:06 < aiju> "tiny" refers to the OS 09:06 < aiju> the runtime is just as large 09:07 < jumzi> i would be impressed if they managed to make a smaller runtime 09:07 < aiju> Go seems unsuitable for embedded things for me -- it mallocs all over the place 09:07 < jumzi> without chopping features 09:07 < adu> aiju: which is why Go-- will have a built-in called free() 09:07 < Aram> people write Java on their embedded CPUs and you are concerned with the size of the Go runtime? :-). 09:07 < aiju> oh yeah embedded has changed :P 09:08 < aiju> people run Linux on embedded, i know 09:08 * aiju was more thinking of 128 B microcontrollers 09:08 * jumzi runs around scared and hurt 09:09 < Aram> well, even C for 128B microcontrollers sucks (not real C), I would imagine go in such a smal space would suck even more. 09:09 < Aram> s/smal/small/ 09:09 < aiju> Aram: it's doable 09:09 * vice_virtue is generating 20 virtual machines... this will take a while 09:09 < aiju> with C you have much more low level control than with Go 09:09 < adu> aiju: what? how so? 09:10 < aiju> a := foo[:] // this calls new 09:10 < Aram> another reason why go on a 128B microcontroller doesn't seem that useful. 09:10 < aiju> it's impossible to sensibly write interrupt handlers in Go 09:11 < adu> aiju: why? 09:11 < aiju> you'll never know what it'll do 09:11 < aiju> Go inserts all kind of calls to potentially evil functions 09:12 < aiju> one does not simply new() in an interrupt handler 09:12 < Aram> well, that's an artifact of the current implementation. 09:12 < Aram> I'm sure you could have interrupt handlers in go if you'd modify the runtime to allow for this. 09:12 < jessta_> that's an artifact of what Go is targetting 09:12 < aiju> the changes would not be small 09:13 < jessta_> they aren't targeting embeded platforms 09:13 < aiju> jessta_: or OSdev 09:13 < aiju> gofy experiences P: 09:13 < aiju> *:P 09:13 < adu> or shared libraryies 09:13 < aiju> shared libraries are evil 09:13 < adu> aiju: I agree, but what's your reason 09:13 < jessta_> aiju: OSdev is fine 09:14 < aiju> things get fucked up often 09:14 < aiju> try running two year old binaries 09:14 < adu> aiju: could you be more specific? 09:14 < Aram> there's much more to OSdev than interrupt handling, I think go makes a very good candidate for a language to write an OS in, even though you can't at this point (or in the likely future) to write interrupt handlers in it. 09:14 < adu> aiju: I did that yesterday 09:14 < adu> aiju: they worked fine for me 09:14 < adu> aiju: could you be more specific? 09:15 < aiju> adu: you've been lucky 09:15 < adu> I actually ran 15 year-old binaries 09:15 < aiju> symbol 'GLIBCXX_n.nn' in library /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6 not found 09:15 < aiju> i just had that recently with commercial software 09:15 < aiju> and couldn't fix it 09:15 < adu> well that's C++, C++ gets fucked up all the time 09:16 < adu> C++ is the most unmaintainable language 09:16 < adu> Go is the most maintainable language 09:16 < aiju> haha yes, but that's not C++ specific 09:16 < adu> which I think is why Go-- would be a big success 09:17 < aiju> i'm giving up on gofy, the language is currently too instable :/ 09:17 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts 09:18 < adu> oh, gofy is an OS 09:18 < aiju> writing an OS requires maintaining two forks of the runtime, an insane task currently 09:18 < adu> aiju: did you write gofy? 09:18 < aiju> yeah 09:18 < aiju> it's not much currently 09:18 < adu> have you considered writing part of it in go--? 09:18 < aiju> i wrote some userspace stuff, syscalls, buffered block I/O, IDE driver 09:19 < aiju> but now everything broke *grml* 09:19 < adu> aiju: that's what unit testing is for 09:19 < aiju> "unit testing"? 09:20 < adu> yes, so that you know things are borked 09:20 < aiju> the really annoying problems are (1) massive compiler/runtime changes every few weeks (2) linker bugs 09:20 < adu> aiju: oh, like the complex/cmplx change 09:20 < aiju> i need my own tailored version of the runtime 09:21 < aiju> for the kernel 09:21 < adu> I imagine so 09:21 < aiju> it's simply too annoying to port all changes they make 09:22 < adu> aiju: have you considered using diff/patch? 09:22 < aiju> and I stumble across linker/compiler bugs too often, those really stress my patience 09:22 < aiju> adu: i don't think whether this would really help 09:25 < adu> vice_virtue: ABI compatibility, to finally answer your question 09:26 < vice_virtue> I forgot the question, you want to make go-- so it has ABI compatibility with C? 09:27 < adu> vice_virtue: yes 09:28 < adu> I have a love-hate relationship with the GoABI 09:29 < adu> it solves some very difficult problems in a really simple way, but it creates so many additional problems in terms of ease-of-use and developer productivity 09:29 -!- visof [~visof@41.235.56.234] has joined #go-nuts 09:29 -!- visof [~visof@41.235.56.234] has quit [Changing host] 09:29 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has joined #go-nuts 09:29 < adu> maybe I should blog about the GoABI instead 09:29 < adu> I haven't found any nice overviews of it 09:30 < vice_virtue> adu, that would be nice 09:31 < adu> blogging about the current ABI instead of some future language? 09:31 -!- fenicks [~christian@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:31 < vice_virtue> well both would be interesting 09:31 < vice_virtue> but I was referring to the abi 09:31 < adu> but I like the future, it's always seems to much better 09:31 < fenicks> hello 09:32 < adu> s/to/so/ 09:32 < vice_virtue> :) 09:32 < vice_virtue> Do you think the future is Go-- rather than Go? 09:32 < zozoR> http://pastebin.com/r8QbTvH1 <-- ERROR: 'tm' undeclared (first use in this function) 09:33 < zozoR> : | 09:33 < aiju> pastebin.com is insulting us 09:33 < vice_virtue> You've got a capitalisation error 09:33 < zozoR> where :D 09:33 < vice_virtue> on line 38, right? 09:33 < adu> vice_virtue: no I think the future is Go, but C is going to be with us for several centuries, and converting between the two ABIs for 100 years worth of software makes my eyes explode 09:33 < zozoR> nope 09:33 < vice_virtue> oh wait, perhaps not 09:34 < zozoR> i keep getting weird errors .. 09:34 < zozoR> if i remove the type tm C.tm it works 09:34 < vice_virtue> which line's the error on? 09:34 < zozoR> it doesnt say 09:34 < vice_virtue> which method? 09:34 < zozoR> doesnt say 09:34 < vice_virtue> I think 09:35 < vice_virtue> on line 39, you should replace = with := 09:35 < vice_virtue> or alternatively replace (*Tm) with (out *Tm) on line 38 09:35 < zozoR> heh true that 09:35 < zozoR> doesnt help though 09:35 < vice_virtue> otherwise out is undeclared 09:35 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:59ba:4e3c:2e2f:3496] has joined #go-nuts 09:36 < zozoR> if i replace C.tm with _Ctype_struct_tm or something it works (half) 09:36 -!- npe [~npe@94-227-43-84.access.telenet.be] has joined #go-nuts 09:36 < adu> vice_virtue: I also think that C2020 might actually require braces... :) 09:36 < zozoR> then i get errors like cant use out type(*tm) as type *_Ctype_struct_tm (even though i defined tm to be that!) :o 09:36 < aiju> C2020? 09:37 < adu> as opposed to C99 09:37 < vice_virtue> C requires braces in some places 09:37 < vice_virtue> C99 09:37 < adu> like on if/for/while 09:37 < aiju> tbh i dislike the requiring braces thing in Go 09:37 < vice_virtue> aiju, indentation instead? 09:37 < aiju> haha no 09:38 < aiju> if err != nil { 09:38 < vice_virtue> how, then? 09:38 < aiju> goto error 09:38 < aiju> } 09:38 < aiju> just looks too "big" for me 09:38 < zozoR> maybe i should update my go : | 09:38 < adu> aiju: it sounds like you don't work on a team 09:38 < vice_virtue> I guess, but the alternative is a common source of errors 09:39 < taruti> How does one align something on a 16-byte boundary in 8a? 09:39 < aiju> taruti: probably not at all 09:39 < adu> aiju: teams generally include less-than-smart people who think C is Python, and add something above your goto, thinking it's part of the block, and then it would error out all the time, until someone figured out the braces were missing 09:40 < aiju> yeah, the retarded developer assumption, duh 09:40 -!- phalax [~phalax@c213-100-72-128.swipnet.se] has joined #go-nuts 09:40 < adu> not retarded, less-than-smart 09:40 < vice_virtue> What adu described happened to me on the last large project i worked on 09:40 < vice_virtue> frustrating 09:41 < zozoR> lol 09:41 < aiju> it's just that if(err != nil) goto error; doesn't look as annoying 09:41 < zozoR> C# syntax is worse, if something goto code, is 4 lines :D 09:41 < aiju> C# has goto? 09:41 < zozoR> dunno 09:41 < aiju> i'd expect it to be STRUCTURED 09:42 < Aram> it does. 09:42 * aiju is so infinitely annoyed by goto haters 09:42 < zozoR> why that? 09:43 < aiju> it gets worst when i have to use a language designed by such people 09:43 < adu> aiju: what language? 09:43 < aiju> e.g. Javascript 09:44 < adu> Javascript totally has gotos, and continuations, you just have to work for them 09:44 < bartbes> you just need to label properly 09:44 < bartbes> GOTO HELL 09:44 < aiju> yeah, there are labels and continue and break 09:46 < aiju> goto haters using break/continue are such hypocrites 09:46 < Aram> haha, yeah. 09:46 -!- d_m [d6@SDF.ORG] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:52 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 09:53 < vice_virtue> I like that go has break <label> 09:53 < aiju> it has? 09:53 < Aram> how is that different from goto? 09:53 < aiju> oh neat 09:54 < aiju> hm i don't really know whether this is really better than goto 09:54 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:56 < zozoR> why is _Ctype_struct_tm working when C.tm isnt >.< 09:56 < zozoR> makes no sense 09:59 < aiju> argh 09:59 < aiju> is there some way to traverse a string with the ability to go back? 10:03 < zozoR> http://pastebin.com/6buRuuqL <-- cant cgo this file : | 10:04 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has joined #go-nuts 10:04 < zozoR> http://pastebin.com/4JPGv9i2 here with the output from cgo 10:11 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 10:17 < Namegduf> Aram: It does a lot less. 10:17 < Namegduf> So it's different from goto like "for {}" is different to goto. 10:18 < Namegduf> This may result in it being clearer what is occurring and being easy to read. 10:18 < Namegduf> *easier 10:24 < adu> who was it who described cgo as an "ugly hack"? 10:26 -!- Fish- [~Fish@bus77-2-82-244-150-190.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:26 < zozoR> an ugly hack that cant use time.h 10:26 < zozoR> -_- 10:32 < aiju> for really needs initializers 10:32 < aiju> run once per iteration 10:40 -!- npe [~npe@94-227-43-84.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: npe] 10:41 -!- gits [~gits@77.94.219.158] has joined #go-nuts 10:57 < user> gotta say, having played around with this language over the weekend I'm beginning to love it, only thing I'm not so impressed with is the performance of the generated code from 6g, anyone know what this performance increase I can expect if compiling with gccgo? 11:00 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@113.132.75.253] has joined #go-nuts 11:02 -!- illya77 [~illya77@214-95-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02 < adu> user: if you can get gccgo working 11:02 < adu> I've been trying to compile gccgo for about 6 months now 11:03 < nsf> 6g generates pretty much high quality code 11:03 < nsf> afaik 11:03 < user> adu: ok, I thought it was included in gcc4.6, no '--enable-languages=go' and compile away? 11:03 < nsf> programming languages benchmark games shows 2x slowdown from C in average 11:04 < nsf> which is awesome 11:04 < nsf> it's even faster than Java in average :) 11:04 < nsf> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u64q/which-programming-languages-are-fastest.php 11:04 < nsf> :) 11:05 < nsf> user: it's not enabled by default 11:05 < adu> well, at first I tried compiling it on macosx, which is silly in retrospect since the main gcc branch doesn't support macosx, or mach-o 11:05 < user> nsf: ok, I converted some of my c++ code to go and benchmarked it (nothing fancy, just loops calling functions doing some simple comparisons) and it was like 3 times slower than the c++ version 11:05 < adu> secondly, I tried compiling it on ubuntu, and that didn't work either 11:05 < user> nsf: but chances are I did something stupid, I'm new to go 11:05 < nsf> user: most likely it's due to lack of inlining on Go side 11:06 < user> nsf: ok, 6g is obviously very new and still in heavy development 11:06 < nsf> but that very important optimization will be added in future I'm sure 11:06 < user> adu: ok, I'll probably give it a try myself since I've been bitten by the Go bug :) 11:06 < nsf> what I'm trying to say is that if you need that much of performance, maybe Go is a wrong language for you 11:06 < nsf> you can still write portions of your app in C or C++ 11:07 < nsf> and the biggest part in Go 11:07 < user> nsf: Well I don't 'need' that much performance but apart from the garbage collection there's really no overhead that would make it perform worse than c,c++ as I see it? 11:07 < nsf> for example, sorting an array of floats, I'm sure C++ will generate a much better code even in comparison with gccgo 11:07 < Namegduf> nsf: Why? 11:07 < user> nsf: why? 11:08 < user> lol 11:08 < aiju> there is bounds checking overhead 11:08 < nsf> because in Go there is no easy way to write a fast and generic sort 11:08 < aiju> not just for arrays, also for the stacks 11:08 < nsf> sort.Interface isn't even funny 11:08 < nsf> it will be slower than qsort 11:09 < aiju> wtf 11:09 < nsf> qsort dereferences and calls one function pointer, sort.Interface does that for two virtual methods (two function pointers) 11:10 < nsf> and calling convention in Go (in 6g) has more overhead than in C 11:10 < aiju> why is type foo interface{} an invalid receiver type? 11:10 < Namegduf> You could use a non-generic algorithm. 11:10 < nsf> Namegduf: go and write one 11:10 < Namegduf> nsf: That is what I would do if sorting an array of floats 11:10 < nsf> in C++ it's just one line 11:10 < Namegduf> And I needed it to be fast. 11:10 < nsf> std::sort(v, v+size); 11:10 < Namegduf> No, in C++ you can use an existing one. 11:10 < nsf> exactly 11:10 < nsf> in Go you can't 11:11 < Namegduf> No, you can't. 11:11 < Namegduf> That doesn't say anything about achievable runtime speed, though 11:11 < aiju> i bet std::sort has a float special case 11:11 < nsf> well, good luck with that 11:11 < nsf> my considerations are purely practical 11:12 < Namegduf> So are mine. 11:12 < nsf> Go isn't about performance and never will be 11:12 < Namegduf> Not above all other concerns. 11:12 < Namegduf> But then, neither is C++. 11:12 < nsf> C and C++ are 11:12 < nsf> :) 11:12 < Namegduf> Not above all other concerns. 11:13 < Namegduf> The generics thing is particularly bad as an example, because the obvious alternative is to use buildsystem instantiation or just write out the algorithm repeatedly 11:13 < Namegduf> Using an interface IS slower at runtime, but it is not what you would do in cases where you cared about performance on that level. 11:14 < Namegduf> You would do the template instantiation yourself. 11:14 -!- npe [~npe@94-227-43-84.access.telenet.be] has joined #go-nuts 11:15 < adu> nsf: but when will you be able to write parts in Go and the biggest part in C? 11:15 < Namegduf> Go strikes a different compromise, but it hardly doesn't care about performance at all, and the practical difference you should expect shouldn't need to be that huge. 11:15 < aiju> C++ is about sucking as much as possible 11:15 < adu> C++ is the most unmaintainable language 11:15 < aiju> i take the effort of writing a specialized function for sorting floats over C++ insanity any day 11:16 < jumzi> but, but 11:17 < adu> but what? 11:18 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@113.132.75.253] has left #go-nuts [] 11:27 < adu> http://pastebin.com/8Ng00gyD 11:32 < mpl> I've just pulled and updated and it seems os doesn't contain ForkExec anymore. however the online doc still has it. where's the problem? 11:33 < mpl> also, I can't find that change announced in the releases changes... 11:34 < Namegduf> There's a new name. 11:34 < user> adu: I'm building gcc 4.6 (snapshot 20110105) with --enable-languages=c,c++,go We'll see what happens (crossing fingers ;D ) 11:35 < adu> user: I'm building svn://gcc.gnu.org/svn/gcc/branches/gccg 11:35 < aiju> gcc >= 4.5 is so incredibly slow 11:35 < adu> whatever version that is 11:35 < adu> aiju: I don't care about speed, I care about ABI compatibility 11:36 < user> adu: mine aborted, go was not a supported language in this snapshot 11:36 < Aram> s/>= 4.5// 11:36 < adu> user: ah, well, I've heard that if you follow the instructions at http://golang.org/doc/gccgo_install.html and dot your i's, then it works 11:37 < user> adu: ah, so it hasn't been merged with the main gcc 4.6 branch yet then 11:37 < adu> I don't think so 11:38 < user> adu: well, I'm lazy by nature so chances are I'll wait for a gcc 4.6 rc instead of trying to build gccgo separately ;) 11:38 < aiju> Aram: it got especially slow then 11:43 < mpl> ah I see, os.StartProcess. seems like the online doc is just outdated. 11:43 < Namegduf> Yeah. 11:43 < Namegduf> It came up on the mailing list but I forgot the new name. 11:44 < mpl> found it on goland-dev. gmail searches ftw ;) 11:49 < adu> user: you mean you'd rather wait forever, rather than try it out right now? 11:51 < user> adu: heh! well gcc 4.6 is in regression fix stage now so hopefully there will be some rc's soon (yeah, i'm an optimist!) 11:52 < adu> oh it's probably not going to be in gcc 4.6, I'd guess something more like 5.2 11:52 < user> adu: heh, well officially it's in 4.6, Ian Lance Taylor will be pretty sad if it's not I gather 11:54 < user> adu: still, I'm interested in seeing what performance I can get out of Go using the gcc backend compared to 6g, so chances are I'll try to compile the gccgo separate branch 11:56 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:56 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Changing host] 11:56 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 11:56 < user> adu: http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.6/changes.html Go is listed as supported language, although not enabled by default 11:57 -!- ShadowIce` [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58 < Aram> can gccgo use more than one thread? 12:01 < user> Aram: if not it would be pretty insane since concurrency is sorta an important aspect of Go 12:02 < Aram> concurrent programming, not multi-threaded execution. I though the usual compiler uses only one thread unless instructed otherwise. 12:03 < user> Aram: ahh ok, now I follow you, I don't know the answer though 12:03 < aiju> with concurrent programming, only one goroutine is active most of the time 12:03 < aiju> it's more like coroutines 12:05 -!- bfrank [~brad@cpe-098-026-048-143.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:05 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055057127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:07 < user> Here's a blog post by Ian Lance Taylor (guy who writes gccgo) which describes some of the current shortcomings of gccgo http://www.airs.com/blog/archives/448 12:15 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #go-nuts 12:17 -!- tav [~tav@92.7.102.123] has quit [Quit: tav] 12:18 < aiju> shortcoming #1: it sucks terribly 12:18 < aiju> one of the reason i write Go is that i don't have to cope with gcc 12:18 < aiju> >Have you folks considered including a language-version-sensitive conditional in the language? 12:18 * aiju facepalms 12:19 < zozoR> http://pastebin.com/4JPGv9i2 <-- any new joiners who understands why cgo doesnt like this :D 12:20 < nsf> because there is no such type as tm in time.h 12:20 < nsf> it's "struct tm" 12:20 < nsf> C.struct_tm should work 12:21 < zozoR> oh : | 12:21 < aiju> time.h has a lot of pre-ANSI cruft in it 12:21 < zozoR> so structs have got to have struct_ before the actual struct? 12:21 < nsf> it's not pre ANSI it's very much C99 12:21 < nsf> but some people prefer to do stupid typedefs 12:21 < aiju> what's wrong with typedefs? 12:22 < adu> nothing 12:22 < nsf> typedefs add garbage to the global namespace 12:22 < zozoR> what i dont get in time.h is the need typedef unsigned time_t : | 12:22 < aiju> and who cares? 12:22 < nsf> I do 12:22 < aiju> namespace pollution is the most ridiculous argument ever 12:22 < adu> aiju: no, it's not 12:23 < aiju> explain me what's wrong with "namespace pollution" 12:23 < adu> aiju: it is a crucial if you're talking about JavaScript, for example 12:23 < adu> aiju: it can make webpages crash 12:23 < aiju> i'm talking about C 12:24 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has joined #go-nuts 12:24 -!- gid [~gid@220.253-195-125.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:27 < aiju> so, what's wrong with it? 12:28 < zozoR> it pollutes? 12:28 < aiju> am i going to get sued by EPA? 12:28 < zozoR> isnt wrong a part of the definition of pollution? 12:29 < zozoR> and looking through shitloads of stuff in your code completion is annoying :9 12:29 < aiju> jewish structs all over your aryan types? 12:29 < zozoR> perhabs 12:30 < Aram> code completion?!? 12:30 < Aram> what a crazy idea. 12:31 < Aram> the editor must be pure and aryan. 12:31 < aiju> some people just can't remember open 12:31 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-144-17-204.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:32 -!- user__ [~chatzilla@c-83-233-52-50.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 12:33 -!- tvw [~tv@e176009208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:34 -!- user [~chatzilla@c-83-233-52-50.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:35 -!- user [~chatzilla@c-83-233-52-50.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35 < jumzi> code completion rocks 12:35 < jumzi> the first 6 minutes you learning to program 12:36 < zozoR> i find it weird that so many people dont like code completion : | 12:36 < aiju> i find it weird that so many people like code completion : | 12:37 < zozoR> i mean it HELPS you, how can that be bad O.o 12:37 < Ina> For Go... I don't need code completion. I can imagine wanting it with C# or Java or that kind of crap. 12:37 < Aram> wtf, usually people typedef a struct with the same name, they don't add any name to the global namespace, how can this be namespace pollution. 12:37 < aiju> zozoR: the MS Office paper clip HELPS you 12:37 < aiju> how can it be bad 12:37 < Aram> even C++ guys figured it out and made struct optional. 12:37 < zozoR> hahaha 12:37 < zozoR> true that 12:38 < nsf> Aram: they've broken C even more 12:38 < zozoR> but the paper clip has never done any good 12:38 < nsf> in C struct tags are in a separate namespace 12:38 < nsf> in C++ it's all just a big mess 12:38 < aiju> the struct ghetto 12:40 < zozoR> type tm C.struct_tm--> cannot use out (type *_Ctype_struct_tm) as type *tm in function argument 12:40 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 12:40 < zozoR> why cant i do that now 12:40 < nsf> because in Go there are no implicit type conversions 12:40 < nsf> type Int int 12:40 < nsf> Int is not an alias for int 12:40 < nsf> it's a different type 12:40 < zozoR> ah right.. 12:41 < zozoR> awesome, thanks :D 12:44 < aiju> Go should have different namespaces as well 12:44 < aiju> interface foo, struct foo, ... 12:44 < nsf> no 12:44 < aiju> namespace pollution! 12:44 < nsf> Go is not C :) 12:45 < nsf> Go has modules 12:45 < nsf> C doesn't 12:46 < nsf> btw, in early C there were no typedefs 12:46 < Aram> every name pollutes some namespace, we shouldn't use any names. 12:46 < Aram> lambdas forever. 12:46 < aiju> in early C there was no unsigned 12:46 < Aram> in early C, auto was compulsory. 12:47 < aiju> Aram: really? 12:47 < aiju> how early? 12:47 < aiju> and in soviet C, namespace pollutes you 12:47 < tobier> we are doing soviet jokes now? 12:47 < zozoR> xD 12:48 < jumzi> THIS IS IRC 12:48 < adu> lol 12:49 < aiju> auto was already unnecessary in V6 C 12:49 < aiju> but register all over the place! 12:50 * adu <3 Go modules 12:50 < Aram> yeah, optimizations in that era were done soviet style. 12:50 < Aram> which is very strabge considering those machines had a much lower memory wall than current machines. 12:51 < aiju> Aram: i think it was factor 2 12:52 < aiju> i remember the indexed addressing mode (required for addressing local variables and parameters) to be particularly expensive 12:53 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CD077.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:56 < Aram> well, now accessing local memory takes over 600 cycles. thanks for the large L2/3 caches, heh. 12:56 < aiju> haha 12:56 < aiju> cycles are short now ;) 12:56 < aiju> INC on a register was 1.6 us on a PDP11/40 12:57 < aiju> INC n(r) however was 3 us 12:58 < aiju> double operands was even worse 12:59 < aiju> don't forget the existance of caches 13:00 < aiju> i suppose parameters are likely in the L1 cache 13:01 < Aram> don't most calling conventions push first 4 parameters on registers? 13:01 < aiju> no 13:02 < aiju> register passing turned out to be inefficient afaik 13:02 < Aram> how come? 13:02 < aiju> more register saving necessary 13:02 < aiju> often unnecessary register saving 13:02 < Aram> on CISC I assume, RISCs usually have large register windows. 13:02 < aiju> on x86, that is 13:02 < Aram> yeah. 13:05 < Ina> How does go pass return values anyway? Just curious on some of the compiler's internals. 13:05 < aiju> Ina: pass-by-reference arguments 13:05 < Ina> Yeah, but does it put them into registers, or push them on the stack, or what? 13:06 < aiju> all arguments are on the stack 13:06 < aiju> including return values 13:06 * Ina nods. "Okay." 13:06 < nsf> aiju: afaik in 6g there is a registerizer 13:06 < nsf> 8g doesn't do that though 13:06 < aiju> nsf: not for parameters 13:06 < nsf> ah, ok 13:06 < nsf> didn't know that 13:06 < aiju> i think 8g has a registerizer as well 13:07 < aiju> after all, there are seven more or less general purpose registers 13:07 < nsf> but for some reason 6g 2x faster than 8g 13:07 < nsf> I mean the code generated by it 13:08 < aiju> 8g code seems a bit stupid at times 13:08 < Aram> which one is the 64 bit oane again? 13:08 < aiju> Aram: 6g... 13:08 < aiju> the one with a 6 as in *6*4 :P 13:08 < Aram> right. 13:08 < aiju> and 8 as in x*8*6 13:09 < vice_virtue> 20 KVM machines, all baked and ready to go :) 13:10 < Aram> what do they run? 13:10 < Aram> or does KVM support only Linux? 13:10 < vice_virtue> It supports other guests 13:10 < vice_virtue> but they run ubuntu server 13:10 < vice_virtue> a trimmed-down version 13:10 * Aram didn't touch Linux for 6 or 7 years... 13:11 * jumzi wonders what aram is touching now then... 13:11 < vice_virtue> the "virtual" flavour of ubuntu server maverick - You can create them using an app in newer ubuntus 13:12 < Aram> jumzi: OSX (home), SunOS (work, though I work for home), Plan9 (play). 13:12 < vice_virtue> How is plan9 treating you, Aram? 13:13 < Aram> very nice, I have a few VMs and use a ThinkPad with Plan9 as a terminal. I'd like to use it more, but lack of some crucial software makes it hard... 13:14 < aiju> haha a function i just wrote is a huge gotofest 13:14 < Aram> I think drawterm is usually faster as a plan 9 terminal then a real metal terminal, but you don't get the same feel of it as if you stand in front of a machine IMHO :-). 13:14 < jumzi> also drawterm segfaults from time to time 13:15 < jumzi> (on openBSD) 13:15 < Aram> yeah, it crashes often enough even on OSX. 13:16 < Ina> I'm currently running Ubuntu, but I've been meaning to experiment. 13:17 -!- tvw [~tv@e176009208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17 < jumzi> its sad plan9 ainz 13:18 < jumzi> ain't that friendly to newcomers* 13:19 < Aram> when windows users try a *nix variant they usually expect something completely different, so they cope with it, but sadly when people try Plan 9 they think of it as yet another UNIX variant, when in fact it is not. 13:19 < Aram> if you don't treat it as something new, you won't "get" it. 13:20 < Ina> OSX is based on NeXT, right? 13:20 < Aram> yeah, it's a direct NeXTstep evolution. 13:20 -!- erus` [~tommo@host86-162-226-43.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:21 < Ina> I heard a lot of the Cocoa API still has NS prefixes in it. 13:21 < aiju> OSX API are thoroughly ugly 13:21 < Aram> every function has NS in it :-). 13:22 < aiju> NS means "national socialism" in germany, feels appropriate 13:22 < Aram> Cocoa is almost a strict superset of OPENSTEP, generally, you can directly compile old NeXT code on OSX. 13:22 < Aram> aiju: true that... 13:22 < Aram> in a way it's like Java. 13:22 < Aram> feels the same way. 13:23 < Aram> there was even a NeXT -> Java bridge. 13:23 < Ina> I know a guy who was working on a Java to ObjC compiler for iPhone dev. 13:24 < Aram> NeXTstep I think was the first mainstream OS (besides Solaris) to ship Java. 13:24 < Aram> and it did this until the latest release of Mac OS X. 13:25 < Ina> Wait, the latest release of OS X doesn't ship Java anymore? 13:25 < Aram> no. 13:25 < Aram> you need to get it from somewhere else. 13:25 < Aram> it was outdated and they didn't want to maintain the fork anymore. 13:25 < Ina> That's both a boon and a curse to Java devs, since OSX's Java was--- yes. 13:25 < aiju> OS X always felt like *the* Java platform for me 13:26 < Ina> Solaris is THE Java platform, isn't it? 13:26 < aiju> who uses Solaris? 13:26 < Ina> aiju, I don't know. 13:26 < aiju> i love it when code really should fail 13:26 < aiju> but doesn't fail 13:27 < Aram> Cocoa API has many flaws, but one think NeXT/Apple does right is Interface Builder. You can create *good* interfaces with it, and most importantly, as opposed to other interface designers, *it doesn't generate code*. 13:27 < Ina> Does it generate anything, or just leave you to implement it from scratch? 13:28 < Aram> it generates object directly in binary form. 13:28 < Aram> you can just use them in your code. 13:28 < Ina> Aja 13:28 < Ina> Aha * 13:28 < aiju> this feels more evil than generating code 13:29 < Ina> I'd rather see it generate XML or something similar, personally. 13:29 < Aram> it seems at the first glance, but it really is not. 13:29 < aiju> XML is wrong 13:29 < Aram> the thing is, the XML/Code generated is opaque anyway. 13:29 < Aram> so what good does it do? 13:29 < Aram> s/is/would be/ 13:30 < aiju> argh 13:30 < aiju> why does this compile 13:30 < aiju> it really shouldn't compile 13:30 < Ina> Does GNUstep include something like the interface builder? 13:30 < Aram> yeah. 13:30 < Aram> but it fucking sucks. 13:30 < Aram> like all of GNUstep. 13:30 < aiju> just like anything GNU 13:31 < Ina> I imagine. :P 13:31 < Aram> GNUstep has 2 interface builder equivalents, because GNU can't ever decide what to do. 13:31 < aiju> code like this really frightens me 13:32 < aiju> i have a type which doesn't satisfy an interface 13:32 < aiju> but i can assign it to it o.O 13:32 < Aram> one of them *should* directly understand what Interface Builder produces (and viceversa), so projects weould be truly compatible between macs and gnustep, but of course it shits itself all the time. 13:33 < Ina> This reminds me of trying to produce binaries with GCJ, didn't quite work so well either. :p 13:33 < Ina> GJC * 13:34 < Aram> I feel gccgo has the same usefulness as gcj :-P. 13:34 < Ina> heh 13:34 < aiju> anything gcc is worth avoiding 13:35 < Ina> I just wish there was a reliable way to compile Java (or, preferably, Java Bytecode) to binary form. 13:35 < Ina> Plug in a .jar, get out an executable. 13:36 < jumzi> you do? 13:36 < aiju> rm optimizes java pretty well 13:36 < jumzi> I wish there where noway to compile java 13:36 < aiju> plug in a .jar, get out everything sane in it 13:36 * jumzi runs away to his bickering buck 13:37 < Ina> Well, my background is in Java development, and the requirement to have a JVM installed to run Java is one of my main reasons I'm bothering to expand my horizons. 13:37 < adu> aiju you really don't like gcc do you 13:38 < aiju> yeah 13:38 < adu> aiju: it's good to know what you like, and what you don't 13:38 < aiju> haha 13:38 < Ina> And I like go, it just doesn't satisfy all my requirements. 13:38 < aiju> i can call a non-existant method 13:38 < aiju> wtf? 13:38 < adu> Ina: like what? 13:39 < Ina> Most importantly: proper windows support 13:39 < Aram> it will get there, for sure. 13:39 < aiju> have i missed a new Go feature that Go guesses misspelled function names? 13:39 < aiju> like Google does :P 13:39 < Ina> Yeah, I know, Aram. 13:39 < Aram> aiju: C on VMS has that feature. 13:39 < adu> Ina: I'm writing my own go compiler, so I'm accepting suggestions 13:39 < Ina> Hence why I haven't given up on the language. 13:39 < Aram> it "guesses" struct fields name if you spelled them wrong. 13:39 < aiju> Showing results for BinaryOperator.Evaluate() instead of UnaryOperator.Evaluate() 13:40 < aiju> that's what happening right now :D 13:40 < Ina> adu, full windows support, and preferably as little crossplatforming mess as possible. 13:41 < Ina> Ideally, I want to write once, and have it compile on windows, OSX, and Linux 13:41 * TheSeeker upgraded to win7 (x64) ... it has issues with msys :( 13:41 < aiju> why do you run Windows just to run a Unix emulation layer? 13:42 < Aram> yeah. 13:42 < TheSeeker> goinstall requires it 13:42 < TheSeeker> as do the make scripts 13:42 < Aram> can't you cross compile on linux, run on windows? 13:42 < TheSeeker> no linux to cross compile from 13:43 < TheSeeker> hence, msys 13:43 < Aram> drop a linux in a vm. 13:43 < adu> hmm, I've always considered Windows a "burning platform" 13:43 < Aram> "burning"? 13:43 < aiju> I've always considered Windows a "platform to be burned" 13:43 < adu> it's from a Nokia memo 13:44 < Ina> My main userbase is on Windows, I can't ignore Windows compatibility, as much as I'd like to. 13:44 < aiju> what are you developing? 13:44 < adu> Windows is a mess with some garbage piled on top, with methane deprecated so it doesn't stink 13:44 < Ina> Games 13:45 < TheSeeker> I have limited resources, and one machine. I require windows to make what little money I can to avoid starving to death, sorry if that conflicts with your sense of superiority. 13:45 < aiju> adu: methane is odourless 13:45 < Aram> heh, I've written kernel mode stuff for Windows for years :P. (and enjoyed it). 13:46 < Aram> (now I'm writing Solaris KM stuff...). 13:46 < aiju> Aram: what drug are you taking? 13:46 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CD077.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46 < adu> lol 13:46 < Aram> TheSeeker: drop a FreeBSD in a VM, how much do you have? can't you give 128MB to the guest? 13:47 < adu> TheSeeker: I'm not superior, where did you get that idea? 13:48 < TheSeeker> I don't presently have the resources to run a VM. if I did, I'd probably install cygwin instead. 13:48 < Ina> adu, there's a distinctly anti-windows sentiment in this channel that is... quite easy to mistake for a sense of superiority. 13:49 < adu> well, I do feel that I'm more productive in *nix, but I think everyone would be if they read manpages, so I don't see how that makes me any different 13:52 < adu> aha! 13:52 < adu> I found a better word for goroutines: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_(computer_science) 13:53 < aiju> i prefer to call them oranges 13:53 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has quit [Quit: dchest] 13:54 < [muttox]> sigh i don't get interfaces 13:55 < adu> [muttox]: what confuses? 13:56 < [muttox]> well i have an interface with 2 methods and 2 types that have funcs that satisfy the interface as in here http://ideone.com/kzO1o 13:56 < [muttox]> but it claims neither type satisfys the interface 13:58 < jumzi> Ina: dare i ask what games? 13:58 < adu> [muttox]: oh, I see what happened 13:59 < adu> [muttox]: you need to call it as &in.Name() 13:59 < jumzi> adu: you think you can make a compiler in the same grade as 6/8g and that family? 13:59 < jumzi> :P 13:59 < [muttox]> ahh 13:59 < adu> jumzi: no, but I think I can make on for go-- 13:59 < adu> s/on/one/ 13:59 < Ina> jumzi, nothing major. 13:59 < [muttox]> adu: im bulding it off the go for c++ programmers section (since its the only one that actually tells you anything about interfaces) and its not very explicit about it either 14:00 < [muttox]> as much as there is a lot of decent documentation for go it does seem to be a bit all over the place 14:00 < jumzi> Ina: i can't but help thinking that the cellphone is better for such games 14:00 < adu> [muttox]: your methods require a "pointer to IShape" and you are giving the method an "IShape" 14:00 < jumzi> is a better market* 14:00 < adu> [muttox]: do you see? 14:00 < [muttox]> yeah im too used to doing things without having to dereference these days :) 14:01 < [muttox]> C# has ruined my brain i think 14:01 < adu> [muttox]: oh noes! 14:01 < Ina> jumzi, from 'nothing major' you conclude the cellphone is better for 'such games', wow, that's a rather big leap of logic there. 14:02 < jumzi> nah, just an unspecified answer i apperently took an faulty assumption from 14:03 < jumzi> "nothing big" i took as "smaller games" ala frozen bubbles 14:03 < Ina> nothing major != nothing big 14:03 < adu> jumzi: my interest in selecting a suitable definition of go-- is twofold: to provide a runtimeless version of Go, and to lessen the burden of implementing the compiler, thus increasing the quality or "grade" of the compiler as you put it 14:04 < Ina> I don't have a big budget, but that doesn't mean I can only provide very basic games. 14:05 < jumzi> Well given you wouldn't mention anything either to satisfy my curiousity added to my assumption, i'm sry i'm sure you do great games or w/e it wasn't meanth as an insult for once 14:05 < [muttox]> hmm it doesn't like specifying an *IShape for the func which makes it annoying having to remember to deref on the call side instead of once on the func side 14:05 < aiju> 15:02 < adu> [muttox]: your methods require a "pointer to IShape" and you are giving the method an "IShape" 14:05 < aiju> bullshit 14:06 < aiju> methods with an *IShape receiver work well with IShape 14:06 < [muttox]> actually *IShape refuses to compile 14:06 < [muttox]> it wont let me specify pointer to interface for the func 14:06 < adu> aiju: where is that specified? 14:06 < aiju> is I an interface? 14:06 < aiju> adu: "Calls" in the specification 14:07 < aiju> [muttox]: why do those methods even have pointer receivers? 14:07 < adu> aiju: no it doesn't specify that implicit conversion 14:08 < jumzi> mention any games, website or w/e* 14:08 < aiju> the error is somewhere else 14:08 < aiju> Process(sqr) 14:08 < aiju> should be Process(&sqr) 14:08 < [muttox]> yep thats what i changed it to 14:08 < adu> aiju: I'm still trying to find out where you justify your statement 14:08 < [muttox]> which is why im wondering bout getting the method taking the interface to use a pointer instead 14:08 < adu> aiju: or were you just making things up 14:09 < aiju> sqr.Area() should work fine 14:09 -!- Ayoi [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:09 < aiju> A method call x.m() is valid if the method set of (the type of) x contains m and the argument list can be assigned to the parameter list of m. If x is addressable and &x's method set contains m, x.m() is shorthand for (&x).m(): 14:10 < adu> aiju: x isn't addressable in a parameterlist tho, is it? 14:11 < aiju> really? 14:11 < Namegduf> Function parameters are addressable 14:11 < adu> oh, cool 14:11 < aiju> yeah, it is addressable 14:12 -!- belkiss [~belkiss@drn13-1-78-235-168-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:13 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has joined #go-nuts 14:13 -!- tjgillies_ [~quassel@204-232-205-180.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:13 -!- tylergillies [~quassel@unaffiliated/tylergillies] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:15 < [muttox]> ahh hmm that explains that i thought the composite literal returned a pointer already, definately too late in the evening 14:16 < [muttox]> too used to assuming i have a reference to something on construct 14:17 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17 < [muttox]> damn when did binaries baloon out to 1.3megs, i remember them being 550k a while back 14:18 < Namegduf> I think it's debug information. 14:18 < adu> [muttox]: nope, most "New*" functions do something like { return &MyObject{...} } 14:18 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:18 < jessta_> [muttox]: the way interfaces implicitly wrap other types is one of the most confusing things about Go 14:19 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19 < Namegduf> Eh. 14:19 < adu> jessta_: how so? 14:19 < Namegduf> It's simple but hard to explain. 14:20 < jessta_> adu: because they are pretty much the only place where a type conversion happens implicitly 14:20 < [muttox]> its just different, when your used to things like c# or d you have to remember a lot of things aren't done automatically 14:20 < Namegduf> Interfaces contain the method receiver, which is copied when the method is called. When something's assigned to an interface it's copied into it at that time. 14:20 < adu> jessta_: I wouldn't call it conversion, I would call it magic 14:20 < jessta_> yeah, and magic is confusing 14:20 < adu> there is definitely type-magic in interfaces 14:21 < aiju> hu? interfaces are bloody simple 14:21 < Namegduf> They're not very magic 14:21 < Namegduf> They do implicitly box, though 14:21 < jessta_> passing a pointer in to a function that takes a non-pointer is weird 14:21 < [muttox]> no, RichTextBox.AutdetectURLs = false to allow an rtb to auto detect urls is magic... 14:21 < adu> Namegduf: I know, but not every knows about itables or vtables 14:22 < Namegduf> jessta_: Do method receivers automatically dereference or something? 14:23 * Namegduf doesn't remember 14:23 < [muttox]> think i might write a codewalk bout this so i don't end up forgetting again by the weeks end 14:24 -!- illya77 [~illya77@214-95-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:29 < aiju> selectors in Go automatically dereference 14:29 < Namegduf> Thought so. 14:29 < aiju> both for structure members and methods 14:29 -!- Zoopee [alsbergt@zoopee.org] has joined #go-nuts 14:29 < Namegduf> I just read . as equivalent to both . and -> 14:29 < aiju> yeah 14:30 -!- Kashia [~Kashia@port-92-200-126-131.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:30 < aiju> that's what i gets down to 14:30 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-120-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:34 -!- gits [~gits@77.94.219.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42 -!- vice_virtue [~vice@220-253-20-54.VIC.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:49 -!- Fish- [~Fish@bus77-2-82-244-150-190.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 14:56 < fzzbt> at first i just wrote foo-> as (*foo). because i didnt know of go's magic 15:01 -!- gju_ [~gju@big1.hrz.fh-zwickau.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:04 < aiju> heh 15:05 -!- gju [~gju@big1.hrz.fh-zwickau.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:05 -!- illya77 [~illya77@214-95-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:11 -!- illya77 [~illya77@150-247-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:22 -!- gits [~gits@77.94.219.158] has joined #go-nuts 15:24 -!- Ayoi [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26 -!- d_m [d6@SDF.ORG] has joined #go-nuts 15:29 -!- ildorn [~ildorn@dslb-188-105-116-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:35 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 15:41 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42 -!- illya77_ [~illya77@253-200-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:43 -!- zozoR2 [~az@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:43 -!- niemeyer_ [~niemeyer@201-14-240-9.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 15:44 -!- illya77 [~illya77@150-247-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:47 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-144-17-204.range86-144.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten. Desu~] 15:48 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:52 -!- zozoR [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:52 -!- zozoR2 [~az@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 15:56 -!- Ayoi [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08 < zozoR> :3 16:12 -!- illya77_ [~illya77@253-200-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12 -!- gits [~gits@77.94.219.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:14 -!- scyth [~scyth@rots.in.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:16 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:17 -!- reiddraper [~reid@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:17 -!- reiddraper [~reid@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 16:18 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:21 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 16:25 -!- ExtraSpice [~XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26 -!- belkiss [~belkiss@drn13-1-78-235-168-105.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.2, revision: 4740, sources date: 20100627, built on: 2010-10-19 12:51:39 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:29 -!- ildorn [~ildorn@dslb-188-105-116-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30 -!- ildorn [~ildorn@dslb-188-105-116-118.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:33 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34 -!- scyth [~scyth@rots.in.rs] has joined #go-nuts 16:42 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-145-223-44.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:45 -!- wtfness [~dsc@dyn-86-36-43-113.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45 < sanjoyd> Please suggest some small task that will help me get started with the Go compiler. While I have not written a single line of Go, I am reasonably proficient in C, and have worked on JIT compilers before. Specifically, some task related to the garbage-collector would be perfect. 16:47 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 16:47 < aiju> JIT compilers, how do you write them without becoming a huge mess? 16:48 < sanjoyd> Discipline. I have not written one from scratch, though. 16:48 < Namegduf> Go isn't JIT, anyways. 16:48 < sanjoyd> Namegduf: I know. 16:48 < aiju> a bit OT :P 16:48 < Namegduf> Okay. Not sure what the main todos seeking help are. 16:48 < aiju> the GC needs a complete rewrite 16:48 < aiju> to quote the source 16:49 < aiju> // NOT INTENDED FOR PRACTICAL USE 16:49 < aiju> (or something along that) 16:49 < Namegduf> Haha. 16:49 < zozoR> haha awesome 16:49 < sanjoyd> aiju: oh, sorry. Is there another developer channel? 16:50 < aiju> sanjoyd: OT referred to the JIT part 16:50 < sanjoyd> Oh, okay. 16:50 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-145-223-44.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Scorchin] 16:50 < aiju> i'm just curious 16:50 < aiju> i tried writing one for PDP-11 -> x86 and it became a giant mess 16:50 < sanjoyd> aiju: try having a look at V8? 16:50 < sanjoyd> Very nicely organized. 16:51 < sanjoyd> Or Mono, if you don't like C++. 16:51 < aiju> hahahaha Mono *cough* 16:52 < aiju> and no, i haven't looked at any previous work, was probably wrong 16:52 < sanjoyd> Actually, even I thinking of writing a JIT compiler from scratch, just for the heck of it; this summer. 16:54 < nsf> sanjoyd: go for llvm tutorial 16:54 < nsf> llvm is a nice platform for Go, at least in theory 16:55 -!- jodaro [~user@poquito.divinia.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:56 < sanjoyd> nsf: LLVM tutorial? 16:56 < nsf> yes 16:56 < nsf> well, if you're interested in writing a Go compiler 16:57 < nsf> that's one of the options 16:57 < nsf> or you want to extend existing one? 16:57 < sanjoyd> Well, I'm not really interested in writing a Go compiler from scratch as much as work on the existing projects. 16:57 < sanjoyd> nsf: yes. 16:57 < aiju> sanjoyd: maybe look on the dev mailing list 16:57 < nsf> ah, sorry then 16:58 < nsf> well, then dig rsc's blog and iant's blog 16:58 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.93.139] has joined #go-nuts 16:58 < nsf> both have some internal details on Go implementations 16:58 < sanjoyd> aiju: will. Thanks. 16:59 < sanjoyd> nsf: can you give me full names I can Google? 16:59 < sanjoyd> s/full/larger/ 16:59 < nsf> http://research.swtch.com/search/label/Go 16:59 < nsf> http://www.airs.com/blog/archives/category/programming 16:59 < sanjoyd> nsf: Thanks!! 17:11 < zozoR> new irc client switched nsf's and aiju's colors, now its confusing >.< 17:11 < aiju> hahahahaah 17:11 < nsf> :) 17:11 < aiju> everyone is white here 17:11 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF7824.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:11 -!- fenicks [~christian@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:12 < aiju> unless you highlight me, you will then turn yellow, the color of disgrace 17:14 < Namegduf> I hope that doesn't happen to me, aiju. 17:16 < jodaro> yellow, the color of inedible snow 17:16 < aiju> hahaha 17:17 -!- dchest [~dchest@95.155.52.241] has quit [Quit: dchest] 17:25 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 17:26 -!- tvw 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hcl2 [~akuma@75.41.110.112] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02 -!- reiddraper [~reid@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:05 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.87.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-182-235.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 20:07 -!- reiddraper [~reid@rrcs-50-74-0-42.nyc.biz.rr.com] has left #go-nuts [] 20:14 -!- phalax [~phalax@c213-100-72-128.swipnet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #go-nuts 20:25 < aiju> tensai_cirno: btw do you use the strongest public license for your works? :P 20:27 -!- kknightley [~chatzilla@c-83-233-52-50.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28 < fzzbt> no, she's too stupid for that 20:28 < tensai_cirno> aiju, bsd! ⑨ 20:28 < aiju> tensai_cirno: 21:24pm up 114 days 9:28, 1 user, load average: 0.34, 0.23, 0.19 20:28 < aiju> oops 20:28 < aiju> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/3darCE9QPPRW5fzxBPcD/ 20:29 < fzzbt> haha 20:29 < tensai_cirno> uh oh 20:29 < tensai_cirno> i'am loving it 20:29 < tensai_cirno> <3 20:35 -!- nictuku [~nicutku@cetico.org] has joined #go-nuts 20:35 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:37 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 20:38 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:41 -!- kknightley [~chatzilla@c-83-233-52-50.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:43 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-145-223-44.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:46 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-172-139.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 20:49 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-182-235.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03 -!- dropdrive [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05 -!- dropdrive [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:05 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10 -!- preflex [~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex] has joined #go-nuts 21:18 -!- meanburrito920 [~john@192.5.109.49] has joined #go-nuts 21:18 -!- meanburrito920 [~john@192.5.109.49] has quit [Changing host] 21:18 -!- meanburrito920 [~john@unaffiliated/meanburrito920] has joined #go-nuts 21:28 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF7824.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:29 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF59FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:31 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: hello] 21:31 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:37 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@c-76-21-40-53.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:37 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:59ba:4e3c:2e2f:3496] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:39 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF59FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 21:42 < jnwhiteh> If I'm making a wrapper for a package type (such as http.ResponseWriter), is there anything that would cause code from within that package to call the non-exported interface that I'm wrapping instead of mine? I'm running into a situation that should be impossible and that would explain this. I'm at a loss otherwise =/ 21:48 -!- illya77 [~illya77@216-6-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:51 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 21:53 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:56 -!- meanburrito920 [~john@unaffiliated/meanburrito920] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56 < jnwhiteh> shockly, it was my issue =) 21:57 < jnwhiteh> shockingly 21:58 -!- viirya [~viirya@140.112.29.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:00 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:03 -!- awidegreen_ [~quassel@c-eacae555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04 -!- illya77 [~illya77@216-6-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09 < mpl> speaking of an http Response, does anyone know off hand where I should insert an identification string for the requester to get it? 22:10 < mpl> the same way you can know you're querying an apache version of that version (as long as it's enabled in the apache conf). 22:10 < mpl> *apache server of that version... 22:15 < exch> mpl: I'd go with the 'Server' HTTP header which you can set to whatever you want in the response 22:16 < mpl> exch: ah, I had tried server_software, gonna try that. thx. 22:20 < erus`> god how do people write propper compilers 22:20 < erus`> my enterpretter is twisting my brain 22:21 < erus`> interpretter* 22:21 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:22 -!- Tuller_ [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:23 < mpl> erus`: they're smart and experienced, that's how :) 22:23 < exch> Do it in steps. [code] -> [list of tokens] -> [list of instructions/executable program] 22:23 < exch> And what mpl said :) You gotta start somewhere though 22:24 < erus`> exch: thats how i am doing it 22:24 < erus`> check out the mess: 22:24 < erus`> https://github.com/tm1rbrt/tomlang 22:25 < jnwhiteh> you are much better off writing a compiler in a functional programming language 22:25 < jnwhiteh> but that's just my opinion 22:26 < jnwhiteh> there's a reason many languages are PoC'd in ml/ocaml/haskell :P 22:26 -!- bmizerany [~bmizerany@c-76-21-40-53.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30 -!- gits [~gits@77.94.219.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:31 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 22:31 -!- Tuller__ [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:33 -!- Tuller_ [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34 -!- fenicks [~fenicks@log77-3-82-243-254-112.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:40 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:40 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.93.139] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 22:46 -!- sumla [~kvirc@109.67.36.231] has joined #go-nuts 22:47 < sumla> can anyone assist with this bug: http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=106 22:48 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: Quit] 22:49 -!- tvw [~tv@e176009208.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has joined #go-nuts 22:53 < sumla> solved with: sudo apt-get install libc6-dev-amd64 22:53 < sumla> if anyone's keeping track. 22:53 -!- sumla [~kvirc@109.67.36.231] has left #go-nuts ["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"] 22:54 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:59 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:03 -!- Adys [~Adys@cpc7-chap8-2-0-cust19.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 23:03 -!- Adys [~Adys@cpc7-chap8-2-0-cust19.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:03 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 23:06 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-172-139.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 23:14 -!- MX80 [~MX80@cust223.253.117.74.dsl.g3telecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:15 < mpl> exch: works, thx. (setting Server in the Response header). 23:17 < exch> cool 23:19 -!- npe [~npe@94-227-43-84.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: npe] 23:26 -!- Ayoi [~david@mic92-12-88-161-108-143.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:29 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055057127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:44 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 23:53 -!- thomas_b [~thomasb@cm-84.215.47.51.getinternet.no] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Mon Feb 14 00:00:05 2011