--- Log opened Sun Feb 27 00:00:29 2011
00:04 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller,
Faster, Easier.  http://miranda-im.org]
00:05 -!- s9 [~s9@99.236.110.72] has quit [Quit: goodbye cruel world]
00:12 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.156.18] has joined #go-nuts
00:20 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts
00:21 -!- _DerHorst_ [~Horst@e176099188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
00:24 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176101047.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout:
240 seconds]
00:41 -!- moddus [~moddus@xdslhm092.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
00:41 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|]
00:48 -!- moddus [~moddus@xdslhm092.osnanet.de] has joined #go-nuts
00:49 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.156.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:51 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts
00:51 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-bwsslrtpdmfvrkyv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272
seconds]
00:53 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
00:54 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF532C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
00:56 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF532C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit]
00:59 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.228.183] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:02 -!- arun_ [~arun@i172010.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts
01:02 -!- arun_ [~arun@i172010.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host]
01:02 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts
01:09 -!- moddus [~moddus@xdslhm092.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
01:15 -!- redmorning [~femto@60.191.99.3] has joined #go-nuts
01:18 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
01:19 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
01:19 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has quit [Read error: Connection
reset by peer]
01:21 -!- TheSeeker [~n@99-153-250-110.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit
[Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
01:21 -!- willdye [~willdye@fern.dsndata.com] has joined #go-nuts
01:25 -!- TheSeeker [~n@99-153-250-110.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined
#go-nuts
01:57 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
02:10 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts
02:25 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@f055197020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
02:27 -!- boscop [~boscop@g227154024.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
seconds]
02:28 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.8] has joined #go-nuts
02:41 -!- _DerHorst_ [~Horst@e176099188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host
closed the connection]
02:42 -!- perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Read error: Connection
reset by peer]
02:43 -!- perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has joined #go-nuts
03:02 -!- foocraft [~dsc@dyn-86-36-42-96.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
03:14 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.91.81.35] has joined #go-nuts
03:14 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.91.81.35] has left #go-nuts []
03:22 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@f055197020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout:
240 seconds]
03:28 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-jltfekaghiyjbsmc] has joined #go-nuts
03:28 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
03:34 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-181-222.eastlink.ca] has joined #go-nuts
03:38 -!- eikenberry [~jae@ivanova.zhar.net] has quit [Quit: End of line.]
03:54 < exch> Is there any reason
'1.27201964951406896425242246173749149171560804184009624861664038' parses as
float64 with strconv.Atoi64, but this doesn't:
0.69314718055994530941723212145817656807550013436025525412068000
03:54 < exch> in fact, all the numbers > 1.0 work correctly
03:55 < exch> the 0.xxx ones fail
03:55 < exch> *strconv.Atof64
03:56 -!- karpar [~karpar@112.96.255.5] has joined #go-nuts
04:00 < exch> O.o I put the code in a separate test program.  Now it's
'2.71828182845904523536028747135266249775724709369995957496696763' which fails
04:01 < exch> oh wait, scratch that
04:04 < exch> duh, fixed it
04:07 -!- karpar [~karpar@112.96.255.5] has quit [Quit: Bye!]
04:17 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
04:17 -!- foocraft [~dsc@dyn-86-36-42-96.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout:
240 seconds]
04:36 -!- foocraft [~dsc@dyn-86-36-42-96.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
04:48 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.171.212] has joined #go-nuts
05:15 -!- redmorning [~femto@60.191.99.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
05:25 -!- JusticeFries_
[~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts
05:28 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net]
has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
05:33 -!- redmorning [~femto@60.191.99.6] has joined #go-nuts
05:46 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
06:28 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
06:38 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: viirya, redmorning, cw, comex
06:44 -!- Netsplit over, joins: viirya, comex, cw
06:50 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4]
06:51 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has joined #go-nuts
06:52 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.171.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
07:27 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.80.24] has joined #go-nuts
07:40 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts
07:40 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-107-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined
#go-nuts
07:42 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit:
EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION]
08:06 -!- edsrzf_ [~kelvan@122-61-221-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping
timeout: 276 seconds]
08:12 -!- mbernstein [~michael@cpe-70-113-7-72.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping
timeout: 276 seconds]
08:14 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:15 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net]
has quit [Quit: JusticeFries]
08:21 < |Craig|> is it safe to read from, write to, and possibly close a
net.Conn from different go routines at the same time?  (one for writing, one for
reading, either may close)
08:24 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has joined #go-nuts
08:25 -!- ovk [~ovk@78-106-195-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
08:37 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts
08:40 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|]
08:47 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts
08:48 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts
08:48 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
08:51 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts
09:11 -!- edsrzf_ [~kelvan@122-61-221-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined
#go-nuts
09:16 -!- edsrzf_ [~kelvan@122-61-221-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping
timeout: 264 seconds]
09:35 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has joined #go-nuts
09:43 -!- franksalim [~frank@99-123-5-179.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has
joined #go-nuts
09:46 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has quit [Remote host closed
the connection]
09:46 -!- foocraft [~dsc@dyn-86-36-42-96.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has quit [Quit:
Leaving]
09:47 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has joined #go-nuts
09:51 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts
09:57 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-165-208.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host
closed the connection]
09:58 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-165-208.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts
10:05 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has quit [Remote host closed the
connection]
10:12 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.8] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:22 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts
10:44 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176099188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
10:46 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
10:46 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
10:46 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
10:47 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Client Quit]
10:47 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
10:48 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined
#go-nuts
10:49 < ww> is it me or does godoc have problems with symlinks?
10:50 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts
10:50 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout:
240 seconds]
10:50 < ww> e.g.  ln -s ~/src ~/go/src/pkg/bitbucket.org/ww
10:51 < ww> godoc will find the actual package documentation but they won't
show up in the directory listing
10:52 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts
10:53 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
10:53 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
10:54 -!- Innominate [~sirrobin@cpe-076-182-074-143.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit:
Caught signal 15, Terminated]
10:55 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: leaving]
10:55 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined
#go-nuts
10:55 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts
11:09 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
11:12 -!- Innominate [~sirrobin@cpe-076-182-074-143.nc.res.rr.com] has joined
#go-nuts
11:16 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-107-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping
timeout: 240 seconds]
11:18 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts
11:27 < ww> and the answer is: it's not just me:
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1540
11:30 -!- Natch [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has
joined #go-nuts
11:32 -!- Natch| [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has
quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
11:57 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
11:57 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts
12:23 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has joined #go-nuts
12:35 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts
12:37 -!- maattd [~maattd@esc31-1-78-245-92-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts
12:42 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller,
Faster, Easier.  http://miranda-im.org]
12:42 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
12:43 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu]
12:45 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:d9df:8912:9dc5:a4ad] has joined
#go-nuts
12:45 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has joined #go-nuts
12:46 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.8] has joined #go-nuts
12:49 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts
12:59 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
13:19 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Read error: Connection
reset by peer]
13:22 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@f055197020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
13:24 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts
13:25 -!- vizowl [~risto@109.171.129.62] has joined #go-nuts
13:34 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has quit [Quit: wrtp]
13:39 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.91.54] has joined #go-nuts
13:42 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@82.84.80.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
13:57 -!- vizowl [~risto@109.171.129.62] has quit [Quit: vizowl]
13:58 -!- bluet [mastensg@knuth.ping.uio.no] has joined #go-nuts
14:00 < bluet> I'm doing the tutorial and I don't understand this error:
http://codepad.org/SXeSQuYM
14:00 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
14:01 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
14:01 -!- toyoshim_ [~toyoshim@y253149.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping
timeout: 240 seconds]
14:01 -!- toyoshim_ [~toyoshim@y253149.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined
#go-nuts
14:03 < exch> bluet: &File() is a conversion in Go. It tries to convert the
two values to a value of type *File.  A struct initializer uses {} instead ->
return &File{fd, name}
14:03 -!- mbernstein [~michael@cpe-70-113-7-72.austin.res.rr.com] has joined
#go-nuts
14:03 < exch> the second error indicates you are trying to convert uintptr
to os.Error
14:04 < bluet> Ah, I see now.  The font makes it hard to tell the difference
between () and {}.
14:04 < bluet> Thanks.
14:05 < exch> The second error can be fixed by using
os.NewSyscallError("mysyscall", e)
14:07 < bluet> Is the tutorial deprecated, then?
14:10 -!- zozoR2 [~zozoR@56347ac9.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Morten.  Desu~]
14:10 < exch> the other occurences of the error return use 'return
os.Errno(e)' Not sure whay the Write() method doesnt use that
14:10 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.171.242] has joined #go-nuts
14:10 < exch> Did you copy this code as-is?
14:11 < exch> If so, I would say the original needs some fixing
14:11 < bluet> I typed it in manually.
14:11 < bluet> But I tried copying it verbatim.
14:12 < exch> k.  looks like you just missed that bit then :)
14:14 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176099188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host
closed the connection]
14:14 < bluet> That's a relief.
14:15 < rm445> the tutorial (live on golang.org) has {}s on line 17 and
os.Errno in the write function.  You just typed it wrong
14:15 < bluet> Yup.
14:17 < rm445> As far as I know the tutorial is very far from being
deprecated.  Sometimes the documentation doesn't quite keep up with the language
changes (for example, the Go Course pdfs were out of date for a while) but in
general the docs are maintained along with everything else in the Go distribution.
14:17 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-107-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined
#go-nuts
14:25 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.91.81.35] has joined #go-nuts
14:30 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.91.81.35] has quit [Remote host closed the
connection]
14:32 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.91.81.35] has joined #go-nuts
14:34 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.91.81.35] has left #go-nuts []
14:35 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
14:37 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.171.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:38 -!- Innominate [~sirrobin@cpe-076-182-074-143.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit:
Caught signal 15, Terminated]
14:38 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.171.242] has joined #go-nuts
14:50 -!- Innominate [~sirrobin@cpe-076-182-074-143.nc.res.rr.com] has joined
#go-nuts
14:52 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
14:59 < skelterjohn> morning
14:59 < exch> lo
15:04 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts
15:25 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C050.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts
15:27 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C050.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host
closed the connection]
15:29 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C050.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts
15:34 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts
15:34 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ
15:48 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.171.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
15:48 -!- saschpe [~quassel@opensuse/member/saschpe] has quit [Remote host closed
the connection]
16:00 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4]
16:03 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
16:14 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has joined #go-nuts
16:29 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts
16:48 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu]
17:06 -!- sav [~lsd@189001131052.usr.predialnet.com.br] has joined #go-nuts
17:09 -!- sav [~lsd@189001131052.usr.predialnet.com.br] has quit [Client Quit]
17:19 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176099188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts
17:28 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts
17:30 -!- maattd [~maattd@esc31-1-78-245-92-71.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote
host closed the connection]
17:35 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts
17:51 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c71eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts
17:53 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF6D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts
17:56 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has joined #go-nuts
18:02 < rl> In my quest of grasping what good idiomatic go code looks like,
I figured I'd read through some of the go package source code.  I don't want to
read *all* of it though, so I was wondering if anyone knows whether there are
packages in the library which are particularly exemplary
18:04 < exch> Most of them will be 'idiomatic'.  I think it will help to
just pick a package which deals whatever you are most interested in.  Networking,
file io, encryption, byte data manipulation, etc
18:15 < rl> way to answer my question :p it's a good point, though
18:17 < jumzi> Well read "Idiomatic code" too ofc, but ye
18:25 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
18:25 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #go-nuts
18:26 -!- rlab [~Miranda@21-200-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts
18:27 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.160.11] has joined #go-nuts
18:35 < rm445> guys, does anyone know how the unsafe package works?  The
source is just some type declarations, and what look like function declarations
(which I didn't even know existed in Go)
18:36 < Namegduf> It's part of the compiler, I believe.
18:36 < Namegduf> It does things packages can't do without it existing.
18:36 < aiju> yeah
18:36 < rm445> The functions themselves seem to live in the C source of the
runtime, named unsafe[middle-dot]function-name
18:36 < aiju> unsafe is pure magic
18:36 < rm445> nodnod, just hoping someone can tell me how it is put
together to make the magic happen :-)
18:36 < aiju> rm445: could well be
18:38 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Ping timeout:
600 seconds]
18:39 < aiju> timeo unsafe et donas ferentem ;P
18:40 < rm445> erudition :-o
18:42 < ww> how *does* one type that middle dot?
18:42 < aiju> change your keyboard layout
18:42 < aiju> i have it on alt gr + ,
18:43 < fzzbt> middle dot ?
18:43 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts
18:43 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts
18:43 -!- raylu [raylu@c-24-131-193-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
18:43 < raylu> i can't seem to find the release notes for 2011-02-24
18:44 < fzzbt> i have no alt gr ;_;
18:44 < rm445> fzzbt: it's a unicode character, like a full-stop but
half-way up, level with a -
18:44 < aiju> fzzbt: right alt
18:44 < rm445> The Go guys use it in the C source to make it look like C has
namespaces
18:44 < aiju> german keyboard has alt gr and i remap my english keyboard to
have right alt as alt gr
18:45 < Namegduf> Alt Gr is the right Alt on (some?) English keyboards, too.
18:45 < Namegduf> At least UK ones.
18:45 < fzzbt> US layout has no alt gr.  and non-US layouts have stupid
mappings for [], {} and ()
18:45 < aiju> fzzbt: remap your keyboard man
18:45 < Namegduf> Psh.
18:45 < aiju> i would go crazy if i used standard keyboard layouts
18:45 < ww> didn't know that was legal in c...  to use random unicode runes
in symbols
18:45 < aiju> no α!
18:45 < aiju> ww: it isn't
18:45 < aiju> ww: the plan 9 compilers (8c etc) allow it nevertheless
18:46 < aiju> plan 9 code has functions μ etc
18:46 < Namegduf> Which means they can use it internally in the Go compiler
18:46 < aiju> i don't see much use for it, actually
18:46 < aiju> it just encourages people to use retarded variable names
nobody can type
18:47 < exch> builtin obfuscation ftw
18:47 < ww> well..  ascii is rather anglocentric
18:47 < aiju> imagine reading code with variables like 人々
18:47 < aiju> ww: code should be fucking english
18:47 < bartbes> is that a gate address?
18:47 < bartbes> :P
18:47 < Namegduf> XD
18:47 < exch> :p
18:47 < kimelto> :)
18:48 < ww> aiju: tell that to the olf!
18:48 < aiju> i am really annoyed by people using spanish, german, french
etc variable names
18:48 < aiju> and i know two of these languages!
18:48 < kimelto> aiju: I've seen people using #define to redefine C keyword
in a language.
18:49 < kimelto> simply awful
18:49 < fzzbt> by any chance, are you from english speaking country, aiju ?
18:49 < aiju> wow
18:49 < aiju> fzzbt: i am german
18:49 < exch> English isnt the best solution either, but it's wide spread
unfortunately
18:49 < aiju> and i used english variable ever since i knew just enough
english for my variables
18:49 < rl> maybe rob pike just has a thing for unicode, who knows
18:50 < aiju> i don't mind english too much
18:50 * ww has absolutely no problem with variable names in whatever language
18:50 < Namegduf> rl: It's used to namespace things without stepping on
legal name characters
18:50 < rl> Namegduf: I was trying to allude to the fact that rob pike
co-created UTF8 with Ken Thompson, but yea sure
18:50 < exch> English isnt very difficult for people with european roots as
far as language goes.  But it's a pain in the ass for anyone else (arabs, asians,
etc)
18:51 < ww> east asian languages would be hard for me though...
18:51 < Namegduf> Ah.
18:51 < aiju> just use fucking english and virtual anyone will be able to
understand it
18:51 < Namegduf> I don't mind code that's non-English so long as I never
have to see it
18:51 < Namegduf> If the development team ever gets past that country it's
terrible, though
18:52 < aiju> if you don't speak english, learn it or you'll have no place
in science and engineering
18:52 < rl> That's a bit short-sighted though
18:52 < ww> aiju: feeling extremist this evening are we?
18:52 < aiju> haha
18:52 < Namegduf> s/ this evening//
18:52 < Namegduf> :P
18:52 < rl> AFAIK the same used to be true for german a while back, at least
to a certain extent -- most of my father's textbooks were in German
18:52 < aiju> no, language barriers are FUCKING ANNOYING
18:52 < Namegduf> You know what I hate?  Time zones.
18:52 < ww> Namegduf++
18:52 < bartbes> we should all speak esperanto and live in GMT
18:53 < |Craig|> daylight savings time is worse
18:53 < rl> C'mon, time zones are nothing compared to DST
18:53 < rl> w0rd!\
18:53 < ww> all the european languages are basically the same anyways...
18:53 < Namegduf> Agree there.
18:53 < ww> except hungarian
18:53 < rl> ww: And finnish
18:53 < Namegduf> I live in GMT and don't update my clock for DST
18:53 < bartbes> well, DST wouldn't be as bad if it started and ended at the
same time everywhere
18:53 < ww> rl: and finnish...  and estonian
18:53 < aiju> haha
18:53 < Namegduf> It's pretty bad.
18:54 < aiju> DST is fucking retarded
18:54 < rl> bartbes: it'd still be pretty bad, actually..
18:54 < ww> just have gofmt pass code through google translate :P
18:54 < bartbes> rl: but not as bad :P
18:54 < aiju> i wouldn't say all european languages are equilvanet
18:54 < aiju> many have either latin or germanic roots but that's it
18:54 < bartbes> all languages use characters, so all languages are the
same!
18:55 < Namegduf> They're all just squiggles
18:55 < kimelto> aiju: what about greek?
18:55 < bartbes> though some are too similar, italian and spanish people can
talk to each other and understand most of it
18:55 < aiju> 19:54 < ww> aiju: feeling extremist this evening are we?
18:55 < bartbes> or so I've been told
18:55 < rl> aiju: well there's a lot of sharing of words.  Knowing one
european language makes it easier to learn another one, so I can see where it
comes from
18:55 < aiju> funnily enough, i've seen career cancelors saying the same
thing
18:55 < ww> <-- hyperbole
18:55 < aiju> kimelto: yeah well, "most" is not all
18:56 < aiju> but there is also slavic in many languages ...
18:56 < jumzi> Wah?  It's good that sience and engineering peeps have common
language
18:56 < jumzi> FUCK ME if i had to program in Swedish
18:56 < rl> jumzi: I don't think anyone disagrees
18:57 < ww> a very basic knowledge of a slavic, a latin and a germanic
language is probably enough to handle european variable names...  and if anything
is confusing we do have dictionaries...
18:57 < aiju> yeah, fucking liberals
18:57 < jumzi> Altough UTF-8 rules and should be incorporated everywhere,
including compilers
18:57 < jumzi> ww: Or a simple ed script?
18:57 < aiju> ww: it's funnily enough to figure out WHICH language this is
supposed to be
18:57 < bartbes> ww: imo it should use names in the language best for the
target audience
18:58 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.91.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
18:58 < bartbes> and worldwide that's english
18:58 < kimelto> if you try to translate "stream", "buffer" you generally
have funny names :)
18:58 < aiju> "target audience"?
18:58 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.79.107] has joined #go-nuts
18:58 < rl> You know how people translate books..  I'm sure someone
somewhere has as a job to translate code
18:58 < bartbes> aiju: you're one of those "nobody ever reads my code, it's
mine!" guys?
18:58 < ww> i don't really disagree...just sometimes i tire of seeing
english everywhere
18:58 < aiju> MS-DOS-Eingabeaufforderung
18:58 < jumzi> bartbes: Makes the best code
18:58 < aiju> MS-DOS-Stapelverarbeitungsdatei
18:59 < aiju> bartbes: quite the opposite
18:59 < bartbes> aiju: well then, you have a target audience
18:59 < aiju> my variable names are english.  full stop
19:00 < rl> The best part is that you can't export variables if you use
glyphs that don't have a concept of uppercase for your variable names
19:00 < rl> *export anything
19:00 < jumzi> 1.  Can i read my code?  2.  does it feel comfortable to work
with?  --> you're probably set
19:00 < Namegduf> rl: You can put an X in front or something.  Suboptimal,
though.  very.
19:00 < ww> aiju: buffer is actually french, eh
19:00 < Namegduf> *Very.
19:01 < kimelto> ww: no it is not
19:01 < ww> kimelto: it's a bit archaic
19:01 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts
19:03 < aiju> stream was originally german, so what?
19:03 < ww> aiju: well english is more or less a northwest european creole.
maybe our code should be as well
19:04 < ww> i.e.  name things whatever makes sense and don't worry about
what language you think you have used
19:04 < rl> name things in whatever way makes sense = use english
19:05 < rl> problem solved
19:05 < kimelto> ww: never heard of it
19:05 < ww> kimelto: i suspect it's actually the same root as bouffer
19:06 < ww> but etymonline says O.Fr buffe, "a blow"
19:06 < ww> rl: what problem/
19:09 -!- perdix [~mkhl@sxemacs/devel/perdix] has quit [Remote host closed the
connection]
19:16 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has joined #go-nuts
19:20 -!- rlab [~Miranda@21-200-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda
IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier.  http://miranda-im.org]
19:44 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:46 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts
19:56 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping
timeout: 246 seconds]
20:00 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the
Fish]
20:07 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts
20:10 -!- pothos_ [~pothos@111-240-167-156.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts
20:11 -!- pothos [~pothos@111-240-165-208.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping
timeout: 240 seconds]
20:19 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.160.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
20:20 -!- rlab [~Miranda@21-200-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #go-nuts
20:21 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts
20:24 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts
20:30 -!- soyayaos [~aza@217.118.81.20] has joined #go-nuts
20:37 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176099188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host
closed the connection]
20:46 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping
timeout: 246 seconds]
20:53 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:01 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts
21:03 < raylu> so, any word on release notes for 2011-02-24?
21:04 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout:
240 seconds]
21:07 -!- moddus [~moddus@xdsleb108.osnanet.de] has joined #go-nuts
21:08 -!- soyayaos [~aza@217.118.81.20] has left #go-nuts []
21:13 -!- foocraft [~dsc@dyn-86-36-42-96.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has joined #go-nuts
21:15 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-4d00d169.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts
21:16 -!- femtooo [~femto@95-89-196-97-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
21:18 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c71eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
seconds]
21:23 -!- SmoothPorcupine [~smooth@207.224.112.146] has joined #go-nuts
21:27 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@78.112.41.178] has joined #go-nuts
21:27 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@78.112.41.178] has quit [Changing host]
21:27 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has joined #go-nuts
21:28 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF6D82.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue]
21:33 < cenuij> nsf: seeing more follow up on the minor ubuntu toe stepping
infractions with regards to packaging, where are you discussing the potential
changes to the build system with $GOPATH etc?
21:34 < nsf> uhm..
21:34 < nsf> I don't quite understand what you mean
21:35 < aiju> ubuntu "steps toe"?  i'd rather call it "kicking stomachs"
21:35 < nsf> and what's more interesting, why are you asking me?
21:37 < cenuij> nsf: I just saw the ubuntu guys packaging from two different
angles and I had thought there might be help in make scripts to also have a full
Go tree in $HOME and also an installed 'system' package of go
21:37 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed
the connection]
21:38 < cenuij> Gustavo described it as "GOPATH" I think
21:38 < nsf> but why me?
21:38 < skelterjohn> why not?
21:39 < cenuij> I may be confusing your identity...
21:39 < nsf> probably
21:39 < nsf> 3 character nicks are so alike
21:39 < nsf> all of them
21:39 < nsf> :D
21:41 < cenuij> sounds good, I will go and lord up that 2.6.37 is
fundamentally broken; then I will figure out why I'm potentially annoying the
wrong person :P
21:41 -!- foocraft [~dsc@dyn-86-36-42-96.wv.qatar.cmu.edu] has quit [Quit:
Leaving]
21:41 < skelterjohn> what does it mean to "lord up"?
21:41 < aiju> fellatio, i presume
21:41 < skelterjohn> heh
21:42 < skelterjohn> aiju wins.
21:42 < cenuij> close ;)
21:43 < cenuij> but i guess in UK coloquail english it means: take pleasure
in the absolute knowledge that you were correct, have always been correct, and
will continue to be correct.  Also someone else will now have to spend their time
off working becase they ignore your bugzilla.
21:44 < aiju> all linux versions are fundamentally broken, each one in a
different way
21:45 < cenuij> the only thing that is fundamentally broken about Linux, is
that it didnt run on Alpha CPU's
21:45 < cenuij> everything else is gravy
21:46 < aiju> things get really funny when you leave the kernel and enter
the seventh circle of hell full of dbus and all that crap
21:46 -!- deso_ [~deso@x0561a.wh30.tu-dresden.de] has joined #go-nuts
21:47 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by
peer]
21:47 < cenuij> dbus is great, it keeps a whole army of terrible c++ drones
in work
21:47 < aiju> hahahaha
21:48 < aiju> dbus-send --system --print-reply
21:48 < aiju> --dest="org.freedesktop.Hal"
/org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/computer
21:48 < aiju> org.freedesktop.Hal.Device.SystemPowerManagement.Shutdown
21:48 < nsf> :D
21:48 < aiju> what's sudo halt coming to?
21:48 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts
21:48 < cenuij> I think i might be able to remove HAL
21:48 < nsf> clearly a java-inspired design
21:48 < cenuij> I will pray to his great noodly goodness
21:48 < aiju> it isn't just HAL, all dbus interfaces are like this and most
often worse
21:48 < nsf> and btw, xorg doesn't use HAL anymore afaik
21:48 < aiju> even opensuse is migrating away from HAL
21:48 < cenuij> y, thinkg the fedora guys are cracking it
21:49 < cenuij> openSUSE factory is a ball hair away from no HAL too
21:53 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
21:54 < nsf> archlinux doesn't use hal anymore, afaik
21:54 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
21:54 < nsf> although I have it installed
21:54 < nsf> for some reason
21:54 < nsf> O_o
21:54 < aiju> our server has hal installed hahaha
21:55 < aiju> the amount of stupid shit on that machine is incredible
21:58 < cenuij> It's likely upgraded systems may have/use HAL
21:58 < cenuij> *shrug*
21:59 -!- franksalim [~frank@99-123-5-179.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has
quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:00 -!- plexdev` [~plexdev@arthur.espians.com] has joined #go-nuts
22:02 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit:
Verlassend]
22:03 -!- plexdev [~plexdev@arthur.espians.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
seconds]
22:03 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
seconds]
22:03 -!- vsmatck [~smack@64-142-40-6.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping
timeout: 240 seconds]
22:03 -!- chressie [~chressie@dreggn.in-ulm.de] has joined #go-nuts
22:04 -!- rlab [~Miranda@21-200-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error:
Connection reset by peer]
22:08 -!- vsmatck [~smack@64-142-40-6.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:09 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit:
Changing server]
22:12 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host109-156-11-12.range109-156.btcentralplus.com]
has joined #go-nuts
22:14 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4]
22:15 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:d9df:8912:9dc5:a4ad] has quit
[Quit: Leaving.]
22:15 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has joined #go-nuts
22:15 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C050.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host
closed the connection]
22:15 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the
Fish]
22:16 < SmoothPorcupine> So what do you guys think about exit?
22:18 < SmoothPorcupine> (And is os.Exit the same at C exit?)
22:18 < aiju> unlikely
22:19 < SmoothPorcupine> (In that both immediately terminate and set the
exit status.)
22:23 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping
timeout: 250 seconds]
22:23 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-4d00d200.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:24 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has quit [Quit: wrtp]
22:26 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-4d00d169.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
seconds]
22:26 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-107-215.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping
timeout: 246 seconds]
22:26 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined
#go-nuts
22:27 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.79.107] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa
leva che succ...]
22:30 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|]
22:35 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-eacae555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se]
has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:38 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts
22:49 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
22:50 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
22:54 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
22:55 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
22:57 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit:
Computer has gone to sleep.]
23:03 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.188.129] has joined #go-nuts
23:03 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts
23:10 -!- moddus [~moddus@xdsleb108.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
23:17 < SmoothPorcupine> Okay fine I'll just jump straight to the point.
23:18 < SmoothPorcupine> Why are exceptions bad while exit and goto aren't?
23:20 -!- franksalim [~frank@99-123-5-179.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has
joined #go-nuts
23:23 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:24 < Namegduf> They are?
23:24 < Namegduf> Actually, I have a better answer.
23:25 < Namegduf> "Because the pros and cons of exceptions, when analysed in
the context of Go, come out to a net negative, while the others come out to a net
positive for inclusion"
23:25 < Namegduf> The specific pros and cons are pretty unrelated to each
other.
23:26 < Namegduf> Go kind of has exceptions through panic/recover, anyway,
they're just constrained, so as to get most of the pros with much reduced cons.
23:26 < Namegduf> (This kind of "most of the advantages without most of the
disadvantages" thing seems to come up a lot when I look at Go, actually...)
23:28 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts
23:31 < SmoothPorcupine> Last time I was here someone said something that
made me think, "What if adding <X feature> to Go would allow the removal of
other features, making Go less complex overall?"
23:32 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:33 < SmoothPorcupine> And it's not, "kind of." Go has exceptions.
23:34 -!- cco3 [~conley@c-69-181-140-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
23:34 < Namegduf> SmoothPorcupine: Then there might be more pros than cons
for that particular example, enumerated and examined, but you'll never know until
somone tries to put the argument together.
23:34 < SmoothPorcupine> I'd thought, "If you did exceptions right, you
could get rid of defer."
23:34 < SmoothPorcupine> But later I realized defer still had to be there
for exit.
23:34 < Namegduf> Also return.
23:35 < SmoothPorcupine> And recently I realized, exit is almost exactly
like an exception.
23:36 < SmoothPorcupine> The way it unwinds the entire call stack is the
defining feature that makes exceptions exceptions.
23:37 < nickbp> can you stop an exit
23:37 < SmoothPorcupine> No you can get the same functionality with goto
return.
23:37 < Namegduf> In that case, I suppose you'd take the phrase "exceptions"
in every discussion of exceptions and change it to "traditional exceptions"
23:37 < nickbp> 'you can' doesnt make it a good idea
23:37 < Namegduf> As os.Exit() does not have many of the attributes they
have that are relevant to discussion of their pros and cons.
23:37 < SmoothPorcupine> By writing the deferer after return:.
23:38 < SmoothPorcupine> nickbp, doesn't it?
23:38 < SmoothPorcupine> UIsn't that what minimalism is all about?
23:38 < SmoothPorcupine> Isn't*
23:38 < Namegduf> It doesn't and it isn't.
23:38 < nickbp> no
23:39 < nickbp> minimalism is about removing the brakes from your bicycle
then killing yourself in a crash
23:40 < Namegduf> This seems like a cup game with definitions rather than an
argument.
23:40 < KirkMcDonald> Killing yourself is a feature extraneous to the
original specifications.
23:40 < KirkMcDonald> And is therefore not minimal!
23:40 < nickbp> no you see
23:40 < nickbp> killing yourself removes you from existence
23:40 < nickbp> which is the most minimalist action possible
23:41 < Namegduf> Proving something about a word proves nothing about
previous usage unless the previous usage included it.
23:41 < Namegduf> It's just a token in protocol, nothing more.
23:41 < nickbp> in this specific instance, the bike analogy is removing your
brakes because it makes the bike simpler
23:41 < SmoothPorcupine> My point is that exit is oftena pain for the same
reason exceptions are.
23:41 < SmoothPorcupine> often a*
23:41 < nickbp> then simply stopping the bike by inserting your foot into
the spokes
23:42 < nickbp> in other words, the lack of the feature makes the workaround
more complicated than just including the feature in the first place
23:42 < Namegduf> Exit shares some of the issues, but not all.
23:43 < Namegduf> It also doesn't share many other attributes- it doesn't
have its own syntax, it doesn't have a use other than to terminate the program
(there's never an expectation of catching), etc.
23:43 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
23:44 < SmoothPorcupine> Exceptions don't have theri own syntax in Go
either.
23:44 < Namegduf> I don't think proving anything about Exit will make a
point about traditional exceptions, or panic/recover for that matter.
23:44 < SmoothPorcupine> their*
23:45 < SmoothPorcupine> The pain exceptions cause is the same pain exit
causes: "What the hell happened to my flow control?"
23:45 < nickbp> in conclusion,
http://www.stephenfry.com/2011/02/27/4d6ae04f2b734/
23:45 < Namegduf> I don't think proving anything about Exit will make a
point about traditional exceptions, or panic/recover for that matter.
23:45 < SmoothPorcupine> I do.
23:45 < Namegduf> Good for you.
23:46 < Namegduf> Why not just make your point with them in the first place?
23:46 < Namegduf> If it's apt and all, that should be straightfoward.
23:47 < Namegduf> Proof by analogy is a horribly messy thing that only works
if every aspect of what you're analogising it to that matters matches.
23:47 < SmoothPorcupine> Because the default state of a conversatoin is
adversary.
23:47 < Namegduf> It's incorrect by default, usually.
23:47 < SmoothPorcupine> If I jump to the conclusion it is rejected.
23:47 < nickbp> i love analogies like a car likes oil
23:48 < nickbp> the default state of my conversation is non sequitor
23:48 < SmoothPorcupine> What if, instead of os.Exit, we had os.Status.
23:49 < SmoothPorcupine> os.Status would set the exit status, but not unwind
the stack.
23:49 < nickbp> how does a parent know that a given function will edit the
status
23:49 < nickbp> you end up with a shitty global variable
23:50 < SmoothPorcupine> Globals are just variables attached to a process.
23:50 < Namegduf> Thus, their name, global variable.
23:50 < SmoothPorcupine> The enviroment, working directory, exit status,
they're all global in the effect of globals.
23:51 < SmoothPorcupine> But let's put it this way: How does a parent know
that a given funciton wont exit the whole damn program?
23:51 < SmoothPorcupine> function*
23:51 < nickbp> yep, and an individual function's succcess/fail status
doesnt belong their
23:52 < nickbp> er, there
23:52 < SmoothPorcupine> Maybe.
23:52 < Namegduf> SmoothPorcupine: Generally by convention, os.Exit() is not
used in non-trivial programs.
23:52 < SmoothPorcupine> Depends on how you want to write your program.
23:52 < nickbp> dive into pedantery with SmoothPorcupine
23:53 < Namegduf> No, I don't believe convention depends on how you want to
write your program.
23:53 < Namegduf> You might defy convention but that's your own problem.
23:53 < SmoothPorcupine> So the only valid use of os.Exit...  Is in trivial
programs?  That could just as easily use os.Status...?
23:54 < SmoothPorcupine> Namegduf, that was @nickbp.
23:54 < Namegduf> It's the only valid use I *know* about.  It doesn't mean
people can't implement sensible deviations from convention which let them know
what's going on, but still use it, in their own projects.
23:54 < Namegduf> It does mean that by default you know functions won't quit
because you know they won't use it.
23:54 < Namegduf> Package functions will not call os.Exit
23:55 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts
23:55 < nickbp> i think having a child function calling exit directly would
be equivalent to a child function causing a segfault
23:55 < Namegduf> Same way you know they won't panic.  By convention, panics
do not escape packages.
23:55 < Namegduf> (Everything in your current package you are presumed to
know about)
23:56 < Namegduf> You could break that in your own project if you wanted,
and make a safe design, but there is a convention that solves the problem.
23:59 < SmoothPorcupine> Isn't it better to force that principle by design
than to leave it to convention?
23:59 < Namegduf> Sure.
--- Log closed Mon Feb 28 00:00:29 2011