--- Log opened Mon Feb 28 00:00:29 2011
00:00 < SmoothPorcupine> So os.Status would be preferable to os.Exit, yes?
00:01 < nickbp> neither would be preferable to proper panics
00:01 < Namegduf> That does not force that convention.
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00:02 < SmoothPorcupine> Okay, I can't tell if either of you is saying yes
or no.
00:03 < nickbp> theyre both bad ideas
00:03 < Namegduf> You failed to prove that claim.  It doesn't prove whether
it's true or false.
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00:05 < SmoothPorcupine> Again, I'm not able to deduce, or induce, for that
matter, your opinions on Status vs.  Exit.
00:07 < Namegduf> I've not yet seen a full analysis of the pros vs cons of
each.  So I don't have one that'll stand up for discussion.
00:08 < SmoothPorcupine> I'm not asking you to decide the fate of Go.
00:08 < Namegduf> Aw.
00:09 < SmoothPorcupine> Personally, when I'm reading code, I'd like to be
able to be certain that any given function I'm reading is going to complete.
00:10 < SmoothPorcupine> If I see a return, I know it completes there.
00:11 < SmoothPorcupine> If there's an underlying os.Exit or panic in one of
the functions that I haven't read the source to yet, it takes that much longer to
understand the code.
00:11 < SmoothPorcupine> It probably doens't help that the last thing I read
the source code of is an init program in C. <_<
00:11 < Namegduf> I agree.  This is solved by conventions against them
outside of the current package.
00:12 < Namegduf> (Or at all, in the case of os.Exit)
00:12 < SmoothPorcupine> God that flow control there is a pain in the ass.
00:12 < SmoothPorcupine> doesn't*
00:13 < SmoothPorcupine> So it's okay to confuse me in intrapackage source?
00:14 < SmoothPorcupine> See, I don't think conventions solve anything.
00:15 < Namegduf> There's no such thing as intrapackage source.
00:15 < Namegduf> Source is either in one package or another.
00:15 < SmoothPorcupine> Intra, not inter.
00:15 < Namegduf> If you are editing code in one package, and it uses
panics, you should be aware of it.
00:16 < Namegduf> A package is the unit of encapsulation in Go, you should
be aware of what all the functions in one you're working on do and any panics
used.
00:16 < SmoothPorcupine> Yes, obviously.
00:16 < Namegduf> So you shouldn't be confused there, either.
00:17 < SmoothPorcupine> So what you're saying is, within any given package,
the source code can be as obfuscated as it wants and that's not a problem at all
on any level whatsoever?
00:19 < Namegduf> No.
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00:20 < SmoothPorcupine> If it were possible, code wouldn't need
documentation because it is easier and faster to read the code.  This would be
ideal, yes?
00:21 < SmoothPorcupine> And I stress, if it were possible.
00:26 < |Craig|> its not that the code does not need documentation, but
rather the code is the documentation
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00:31 < SmoothPorcupine> Yes, but if you don't mind reading code, that
possibility is always open.
00:32 < SmoothPorcupine> Ideally, the code is so straighforward that no
natural language can get you a grasp of the code with less effort than simply
reading the code.
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01:01 < mdxi> hah!  i just barely saved myself from asking a really stupid
question, at the last second!
01:01 < fzzbt> is anyone familiar with the template package?  i always get
warnings like "name not exported: title in type main.dBase".  Is there anyway to
avoid exporting all my struct fields to get template use them or should i just
export every field?
01:01 < mdxi> so now i'll share it with the group: 'fmt.Printf("%x",
time.Nanoseconds)' is completely valid, executable code, but almost certainly
doesn't do what you want
01:02 < fzzbt> did you forget ()
01:04 < fzzbt> i like how in scala, for example, you can leave () out and
things actually work like one would expect
01:07 < mdxi> yes, it should be 'time.Nanoseconds()'.  and that works in
Perl as well, because it's obvious that you're making a method call, and not
wanting to know where the coderef lives in memory
01:07 < mdxi> the part i'm actually surprised by is being handed a
function's address.  i would have expected that to be a compile error.
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01:11 < mdxi> i was thinking in Perl because i'm writing something in Perl5
and then planning to turn around and implement it in Go as well, adn i was doing a
tiny little benchmark in both languages (generating 10,000 UUIDs)
01:12 < mdxi> they're both the same speed for all practical purposes, but
that makes sense.  reading from urandom and formatting bytes as a string are gonna
boil down the same code in both runtimes, i imagine
01:12 < Namegduf> Perl isn't compiled, so it won't generate code.
01:12 < Namegduf> But your example is probably dominated by time to do I/O.
01:12 < mdxi> i'm well aware of how perl is implemented :)
01:12 < SmoothPorcupine> Yeah it's amazing how insignificantly little
functions are ever needed as first class objects.
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01:14 < mdxi> Perl scripts aren't compiled (to native code).  Perl itself
*is*, and the code to read from files lives in the Perl runtime itself.
01:16 < Namegduf> Well, it doesn't live in the Go runtime.
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01:16 < Namegduf> It'll be going through the syscall and os implementations.
01:16 < Namegduf> But it doesn't matter much.
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02:14 < mdxi> oh wow.  i just built the new release and now it takes roughly
0.9 seconds instead of 0.6 :(
02:19 < mdxi> and 0.5 instead of 0.3 on another machine
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04:45 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/8JnUSo by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/runtime/
-- runtime: idle goroutine
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06:19 < vice_virtue> Does anyone know the current status of possible plans
to implement generics in Go?
06:25 < vice_virtue> I suppose that's a 'no'
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09:39 < str1ngs> I'm creating some bindings to libalpm . and I'm working on
the _test.go file.  for some of the tests I need to init libalpm . is there away
to not have to do that for each method test?
09:43 < edsrzf_> If initializing is a one-time thing, you could put it in
the init function in the _test.go file.
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09:46 < str1ngs> edsrzf_: ok thanks I was thinking that.  only issue is how
to I test the Init() function then?
09:46 < edsrzf_> What do you mean?
09:47 < str1ngs> well Init() is one of the methods I need to test
09:47 < str1ngs> if I put it in init() and it fails
09:47 < str1ngs> also I need to release after
09:48 < edsrzf_> Ah, yeah, that's what I was wondering.  If you need to
release it, then maybe init isn't the way to go.
09:49 < str1ngs> ok what I'm doing now is I call Init then run test.  and
defer Release
09:49 < edsrzf_> I'm not sure if there's a very good way to do things
without just calling the Init method at the beginning of each test that needs it.
09:50 < str1ngs> hold on I'll post some code will help
09:50 < vice_virtue> you could use a separate test file to test the
initialisation
09:51 < str1ngs> https://gist.github.com/847142
09:51 < str1ngs> vice_virtue: ah that's a good idea
09:51 < str1ngs> vice_virtue: still not sure how I'd handle Release though
useing init()
09:52 < edsrzf> I think you'd have no choice but to leak.
09:52 < vice_virtue> or put the code in init() into a function by another
name, and write a test case with a different signature (not (TestXXX, something
else) and test it in a separate execution
09:52 < edsrzf> And if you put the Init test in a separate file your init in
the other file will still run, giving you double Init calls.  I don't know if
that's a problem or not.
09:53 < str1ngs> edsrzf: ya I'd have to check the C code see if it is
09:53 < vice_virtue> that's true
09:53 < str1ngs> imo probably beset to make each test function isolated
09:54 < str1ngs> its more typing but..  imo safer
09:55 < str1ngs> ya think I'll keep is this way for now.  thanks for the
help
09:58 < str1ngs> also does this cast seem right
(*[0]uint8)(C.alpm_list_getdata(i)) C.alpm_list_getdata returns a unsafe.Pointer
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10:36 < jokoon> question: in theory, is go as equally fast compared to
C/C++, or is it still in the same order of magnitude ?
10:36 < jokoon> I mean on the big picture
10:37 < str1ngs> jokoon: from what I have read.  and my experience go is not
optimized at this time.  but..  that does make it slow either
10:38 < jokoon> at this time, but in theory, with maturity it will be
10:38 < str1ngs> yes
10:40 < vice_virtue> With maturity, go should be as quick as a C++ program
using concurrency well and making use of RTTI.
10:40 < str1ngs> jokoon: how are there are something that are on a order
faster then C. ie with out tests you can build the go tree in about 40s
10:41 < jokoon> str1ngs yes but that's because go doesn't use headers
10:42 < str1ngs> and handles dependancies alot better.  some would call that
a feature
10:42 < str1ngs> ever have to build a gcc toolchain?
10:42 < jokoon> and I mean execution time, not compile time, even if such
quick compile time is very interesting though
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10:43 < jokoon> sadly I'm more a MSVC user at the current time, but I'm
becoming sick of C++
10:44 < jokoon> it's so easy to write good c, but so harder to write good
C++
10:45 < vice_virtue> I'm rewriting in Go a distributed system I wrote in C++
. There's not a lot I miss from C++
10:45 < jokoon> I installed go on a C++ eclipse
10:45 < jokoon> how do I use it ?
10:45 < vice_virtue> But there are things I miss from other languages.
Namely, list comprehensions, generics (for zip, map, fold, etc)
10:46 < jokoon> found it
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10:47 < jokoon> vice_virtue well there are not very present in native
executable compiled languages
10:47 < jokoon> I don't know about C#
10:47 < jokoon> but my guess is that they will come one day :)
10:48 < jokoon> maybe not list comprehension
10:48 < jokoon> what are fold ?
10:49 < vice_virtue> I know, but most natively compiled languages are
ancient.  Haskell has them, though
10:49 < jokoon> is haskell compiled ?
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10:49 < vice_virtue> Yes
10:54 < vice_virtue> foldl (left fold) takes a list (xs), a function
(f(a,b)->a), and an initial value (x).  I'm finding it hard to describe in one
line
10:55 < vice_virtue> calls to f(a,b) are performed, initially f(x, <head
of xs>), and the result of each call is substituted for 'a' in the next call
10:56 < fzzbt> using the template package, how can you have delimiter
characters in your template without causing the template to think that they are
template variables?
10:56 < vice_virtue> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Fold does a much
better job of explaining it
10:56 < Rennex> aka inject or reduce
11:00 * vice_virtue wishes SCTP was more well supported by operating systems and
household routers
11:01 < vice_virtue> Wishing doesn't make things happen, though.
11:03 * ww has seen pretty little use of sctp outside the lab
11:04 < Rennex> gotta love reduce in ruby..  if you don't give it an initial
value, it starts with the first two values of the list.  And for simple cases you
don't need to give it a code block, the name of a method suffices.  so
array.reduce(:*) would multiply all the values together :)
11:07 < vice_virtue> Rennex, there's a form of foldl in Haskell which does
the same
11:09 < Rennex> yeah
11:10 < vice_virtue> But do you remember what it's called?  I forget...
11:11 < vice_virtue> ah foldl1
11:11 < vice_virtue> (great name)
11:11 < Rennex> heh
11:13 < Rennex> i still haven't delved properly into Go, but it seems like
interfaces would be the perfect way to support generics and it's a shame if they
aren't already available as standard :I
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11:16 < vice_virtue> I'm not sure I fully understand, Rennex, do you mean
akin to type classes in Haskell (where you can say that any Num, or Ord can be
used as an certain argument?), or in having functions which take the empty
interface as arguments/return values
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11:18 < vice_virtue> I think they're fairly similar to type classes, more so
if operator overloading was supported.  But apparently there's a fair bit of
boilerplate in checking the consistency of types in arguments..  and I think I
remember reading that reflect cannot be used to construct types
11:20 < Rennex> err, hmm.  i only thought about a generic container that you
could iterate over, but didn't think about handling the actual values that come
out, and the need for polymorphism there..  but i'm sleepy and a go noob :)
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11:32 < wrtp> go interfaces are more akin to hakell's Type.Dynamic than type
classes
11:32 < wrtp> sorry, i meant Data.Dynamic
11:33 < wrtp> except they're more powerful than Data.Dynamic because of the
subset/superset semantics
11:33 < wrtp> go doesn't support the usual lists operations, mainly i think
because they make it very easy to write inefficient code
11:34 < wrtp> s/lists/list/
11:34 < wrtp> doing generics right in go is a hard problem
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14:44 < foocraft>
http://www.amazon.com/Happy-Hacking-Keyboard-Lite2-Black/dp/B0000U1DJ2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1298904350&sr=8-1
14:46 < rm445> spam?
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14:54 < skelterjohn> he probably found his buckling-spring keyboard
14:55 < rm445> ah okay, apologies
14:57 < skelterjohn> not buckling spring, but one review says it is
comparable to the IBM Model M he was lusting after
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15:03 < jumzi> pfft typematrix is the shait
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15:08 < skelterjohn> enter key in the middle?
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15:16 < foocraft> yes!!
15:16 < foocraft> rm445, it's alright :)
15:17 < foocraft> I believe that kb would be useful for long sessions on a
laptop as well.  1) put laptop on high level 2) attach happy hacking 3) Go!
15:18 < fzzbt> at least get pro model, not that membrane crap.
15:23 < foocraft> on happiness at a time :p
15:23 < foocraft> what's crappy about that one though?
15:27 < fzzbt> foocraft: the lite models have membrane switches,
professionals have capacitive ones.
15:27 < foocraft> and the effect of that would be?
15:28 < fzzbt> foocraft: touch is better, lasts longer.
15:28 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/6jZ6is by [Mikio Hara] in go/src/pkg/syscall/
-- syscall: regenerate zerrors_freebsd_amd64.go
15:31 < foocraft> fzzbt, so it's more or less the same touch, but less
durability, I take it.
15:35 < fzzbt> foocraft: maybe.  I'd try to test it myself before buying if
possible though.
15:37 < foocraft> my options are diminished anyway, cuz over here there are
no such things available.  I'll go full board on buying the pro version if the
Lite edition is nice
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15:45 < adu> membrane?
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16:07 < foocraft> is there any way I can use := assignment and specify that
the number on the right is a unit64?
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16:08 < foocraft> adu, I think fzzbt would know more about that
16:09 < adu> oh
16:09 < adu> foocraft: yes, id := uint64(#)
16:10 < adu> or maybe id := #.(uint64)
16:10 < adu> i don't actually know which would be better
16:10 < rm445> the first one definitely works
16:10 < aiju> .(foo) is for interfaces and only for interfaces
16:11 < adu> foocraft: of what type is 'id'?
16:11 < foocraft> it should be a unint64
16:12 < foocraft> so id := uint64() worked
16:12 < adu> then you don't need anything
16:12 < foocraft> thanks adu
16:12 < adu> yw
16:12 < fzzbt> adu: there's lots of info here for example:
http://geekhack.org/showwiki.php?title=START+HERE+--+The+Geekhack+Mechanical+Keyboard+Guide+-+Includes+Glossary+and+Links
16:12 < adu> the funny thing is I've never used Go
16:12 < adu> I'm just a language lawyer
16:13 < fzzbt> language lawyer?
16:13 < aiju> hahahaha
16:13 < foocraft> hehehe you serious?
16:13 < adu> yes
16:13 < foocraft> so you're from the functional programming and type theory
land?
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16:13 < adu> foocraft: yes, I've written dozens of things in Haskell
16:14 < foocraft> yeah recently I've been playing with these langs; scheme,
haskell mostly and it seems like haskell can be a win
16:14 < foocraft> not sure if they would be useful for some real time system
though
16:15 < foocraft> but that's because maybe I'm thinking too much about how
badly haskell/scheme could've been implemented, given the high level nature of
these langs
16:15 < adu> for RT i would go with C
16:15 < aiju> why do people always talk about RT
16:15 < adu> Go's GC has the potential to get in the way of RT guarantees
16:16 < foocraft> Java has been nice for a lot of things, surprisingly
16:16 < aiju> are you all busy designing pacemakers?
16:16 < foocraft> we're using it for a robotics course and it has not let us
down...
16:16 < aiju> or w/e the applications for RT are
16:16 < foocraft> robotics, servers, games, etc.
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16:17 < foocraft> these are all RT applications; pacemakers might use ada
heh
16:17 < aiju> games?
16:17 < aiju> srsly?
16:17 < adu> games is the opposite of RT
16:17 < aiju> with games nobody gives a shit whether your timing is 1% off
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16:17 < adu> RT is the kind of application where the difference between 30ms
and 20ms can mean the difference between life and death
16:18 < adu> not the difference between playing and respawning
16:18 < foocraft> hmm isn't that a bit too restricted?
16:18 < foocraft> like in games you still want to be fast, or your FPS will
drop and that would be not nice
16:18 < aiju> fast != RT
16:19 < aiju> RT is 20 ms or BUST
16:19 < aiju> where you in advance *exactly* what your timing has to be
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16:19 < adu> right
16:20 < foocraft> oh okay, now I get it.  so in this case what would be some
good examples
16:20 < aiju> pacemakers
16:20 < foocraft> heh
16:20 < aiju> industrial machines
16:20 < aiju> I/O processors (bitbanging)
16:21 < foocraft> so a server isn't in that mix, because things don't really
stop working if you're a bit late in giving a reply
16:21 < aiju> yeah
16:21 < aiju> at least most servers
16:21 < foocraft> robotics is RT though
16:21 < aiju> nobody gives a shit if your request is 50 ms late
16:22 < aiju> occasionally, that is
16:22 < aiju> robotics ..  idk really
16:24 < rm445> Doesn't seem very productive to point out that a young,
garbage-collected language is unsuited to real-time programming.  Like, duh.
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16:24 < aiju> hahaha
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16:24 < aiju> rm445: i don't either why people are so obsessed with it
16:24 < aiju> +know
16:25 < aiju> i suppose they take the "general purpose" too seriously
16:25 < adu> i think RT is special purpose
16:25 < aiju> exactly
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16:29 < wrtp> hard real time vs soft real time
16:29 < wrtp> it would be good if go could get some way towards the latter
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16:33 < rm445> people come along and write special garbage collectors after
a time, don't they, ones with known-bounded behaviour or whatever - but new
languages tend to get something basic unless that's the specific thrust of the
project.
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16:39 < aiju> return (x & ^((1 << uint64(n)) - 1)) == 0
16:39 < aiju> fuck yeah
16:40 < foocraft> this reminds me of how people deal with hashCode() in java
:p
16:40 < foocraft> they take the hashCode of internal things then screw it a
bit and return that
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16:44 < aiju> it actually justs checks whether a number fits into n bits
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16:50 < aiju> ugh the weird inheritance in Go got me a few times
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16:53 < aiju> funnily enough i can't seem to find it in the language specs
16:54 < aiju> ah found it under "struct types", nm
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16:55 < skelterjohn> you mean embedded types?
16:55 < aiju> the method set of structs contains all the methods of
anonymous fields
16:55 < skelterjohn> right
16:55 < skelterjohn> anonymous fields = embedded types
16:55 < skelterjohn> i don't know if i made up that term or not
16:55 < aiju> i used to think of anonymous fields as fields which just
happen to have the same name as the type
16:56 < skelterjohn> ah, no
16:56 < skelterjohn> though you can use them like that
16:56 < skelterjohn> if there is ambiguity
16:56 < aiju> this has caused problems in the past
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17:19 < wrtp> aiju: what kind of problems?
17:19 < wrtp> it's always worked very well for me :-)
17:23 < jokoon> btw GoClipse is telling me it couldnot do something when I
create a new project
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17:36 < aiju> wrtp: i didn't knew about it
17:36 < aiju> and i presumed it wouldn't allow passing a type to an
interface
17:37 < wrtp> aiju: i'm not sure what you mean by that
17:40 < wrtp> i guess you mean "i didn't know the language, so i had
problems with it"...  :-)
17:42 < skelterjohn> that's what he's saying, yeah
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17:50 < aiju> haha
17:50 < wrtp> i thought maybe there was another pitfall somewhere which is
why i was interested
17:50 < aiju> no, just my wrong assumptions
17:50 < aiju> i'll just refrain from using anonymous fields, then
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17:55 < wrtp> anonymous fields are really useful!
17:55 < wrtp> no need to refrain from using them, in general...
17:56 < aiju> duh
17:56 < aiju> type EIndex struct { Exp; I, J int }
17:57 < aiju> that's what i had
17:57 < aiju> and methods came out of nothing :D
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17:58 < wrtp> aiju: that's what anonymous fields are good for...
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17:59 < wrtp> unrelated rant: how the *#!@ are you meant to use pthread
condition variables correctly?!
17:59 < aiju> hahahahaha
17:59 < aiju> pthread is a pile of crap
18:00 < wrtp> i can't see how it's possible to use safely
18:01 < wrtp> the wakeup can always come between the mutex unlock and the
pthread_cond_wait, and then the signal is lost so you block forever
18:01 < wrtp> i'm not surprised people don't like thread programming :-)
18:02 < __gilles> private memory space <3
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18:03 < wrtp> __gilles: ?!
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18:04 < wrtp> thread programming is just fine with channels.
18:04 < wrtp> it's just that pthreads make it almost impossible.
18:05 < wrtp> as far as i can see
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18:09 < __gilles> wrtp: im not a big fan of thread programming, i tend to do
multi-process designs with ipc :p
18:10 < wrtp> yeah.
18:10 < wrtp> i
18:10 < wrtp> n
18:10 < wrtp> in this case, though, i've got to use pthread stuff
18:10 < wrtp> those are the only primitives i've got to work with (this is
in a thread that's been started behind the scenes in a Go program)
18:12 < wrtp> there *must* be a way of using pthread_cond so that you can't
miss a wakeup, but i can't work out how.
18:12 < aiju> mutexes are spawn of hell
18:12 < skelterjohn> if you have atomic variable read/writes, you can roll
your own mutex
18:12 < skelterjohn> and forget about pthread utils
18:14 < wrtp> mutexes are fine
18:14 < wrtp> it's condition variables which are harder
18:14 < wrtp> because you need some way of blocking without spinningh
18:14 < wrtp> s/ingh/ing
18:14 < aiju> channels or GTFO
18:14 < wrtp> i can't use channels
18:14 < wrtp> that's the whole point
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18:15 < tobier> wrtp: what's the problem with pthread condition variables?
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18:16 < wrtp> there's no problem, i've just realised that i'm very stupid
18:16 < wrtp> :-)
18:17 < wrtp> there, it works now.  doh.
18:18 < wrtp> sorry about the unnecessary rant.
18:19 < skelterjohn> I know the feeling.
18:19 < nsf> condition variables in linux are kind of easy
18:19 < nsf> there is a thing called futex in linux
18:19 < nsf>
http://gustedt.wordpress.com/2011/01/28/linux-futexes-non-blocking-integer-valued-condition-variables/
18:20 < nsf> well..  not that easy
18:20 < nsf> but ok :)
18:24 < aiju> i shadow len all the tim
18:24 < aiju> *time
18:25 < aiju> you should never underestimate the time it takes to become
accostumed to new reserved keywords :D
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18:31 < aiju> pointers to slices are awkward
18:32 < skelterjohn> i find that to be the case too
18:32 < skelterjohn> i avoid it
18:32 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/qv5iTg by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/template/
-- template: document the delimiters better
18:34 < skelterjohn> being forced to write a little java, for one reason or
another
18:34 < skelterjohn> i'm finding it very difficult
18:34 < skelterjohn> i keep forgetting semicolons
18:34 < skelterjohn> and putting the type after the variable
18:35 < skelterjohn> took me a while to realize that the for loop didn't
compile because i wasn't parenthesizing it
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18:52 < aiju> *r = (*r)[:len(*r)-1]
18:52 < aiju> almost feels like writing C
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18:56 < rm445> (((*)(void *))0)(); etc :-)
18:56 < aiju> ee, ok := v.val.Fold(nil, o.syms).(arch.ENumber)
18:57 < aiju> now this feels like Java
18:57 < aiju> so many dots!
18:59 < skelterjohn> whenever i want to have a function with a slice as a
receiver, i either put the slice inside a struct and do it that way, or have no
receiver but return the new slice
18:59 < skelterjohn> much easier for me to mentally track
18:59 < KBme> oh yay http://seclists.org/bugtraq/2011/Feb/253
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18:59 < skelterjohn> KBme: yay?  heh
19:00 < KBme> ;)
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19:09 < str1ngs> I'm currently creating go bindings to libalpm.  I used a
cast.(*[0]uint8)(C.alpm_list_getdata(i)) but I'm not 100% if this ok or not?
19:09 < str1ngs> C.alpm_list_getdat() returns an unsafe.Pointer
19:09 < skelterjohn> i'm not sure i understand your snippet
19:09 < skelterjohn> that is valid go?
19:10 < skelterjohn> what is "cast.(*[0]uint8)"
19:10 < str1ngs> ya that was pasted wrong
19:10 < str1ngs> let me pastbin some code will be easier to understand
19:11 < str1ngs> https://gist.github.com/847834
19:12 < str1ngs> line 22 is what I'm worried about
19:12 < skelterjohn> what is the unsafe.Pointer returnedsuppose to be
19:12 < skelterjohn> a char**?
19:13 < str1ngs> no should return a struct let me check the C could
19:13 < rm445> why a pointer to an array of size zero of uint8?
19:13 < str1ngs> code*
19:14 < str1ngs> because thats all alpm_pkg_get_name will take
19:14 < skelterjohn> rm445: he is passing it right back to C, so it's a
pointer to a pointer to a uint8
19:14 < str1ngs> my C weaker sorry
19:14 < str1ngs> why I'm asking here
19:15 < skelterjohn> it's hard to answer the question "is this ok?"
19:15 < skelterjohn> it all depends on what the C code does
19:15 < skelterjohn> and i've never heard of alpm
19:16 < rm445> skelterjohn: I haven't really done any unsafe stuff, sorry if
I'm getting in the way, but I don't understand.  He gets an unsafe.Pointer
(pointing to a struct of some kind), then passes it back to C - what's the cast to
*[0]uint8 about?
19:17 < skelterjohn> he says that is the type that alpm_pkg_get_name() wants
for the parameter
19:17 < str1ngs> const char is char** ?
19:17 < skelterjohn> const char is const char
19:17 < skelterjohn> const is something that is applied to a type
19:17 < skelterjohn> char and char** are two different types
19:17 < jokoon> any 3D engine embryo in go ? :x
19:18 < skelterjohn> str1ngs: it would help if you could show me the
function signatures for alpm_pkg_get_name and alpm_list_getdata
19:18 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: ya just doing that now
19:18 < skelterjohn> jokoon: not really, just some stuff for graphics
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19:18 < skelterjohn> you should start one :)
19:18 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: const char SYMEXPORT
*alpm_pkg_get_name(pmpkg_t *pkg)
19:19 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: do you want the header def
19:19 < skelterjohn> no
19:19 < skelterjohn> what does alpm_list_getdata return
19:20 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/n3fzBM by [Chris Dollin] in go/src/pkg/xml/
-- xml: permit nested directives
19:21 < skelterjohn> ?
19:21 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: https://gist.github.com/847851
19:22 < skelterjohn> lol, whatever a SYMEXPORT is
19:22 < skelterjohn> probably a macro
19:22 < str1ngs> I'll have to check what node->data is
19:22 < str1ngs> alpm_list_t is a type
19:22 < skelterjohn> when i google alpm_list_getdata, i see things like
alpm_pkg_get_name(alpm_list_getdata(x))
19:22 < skelterjohn> makes me think the types match
19:23 < skelterjohn> so just say, eg, thing := C.alpm_list_getdata(i);
C.alpm_pkg_get_name(thing)
19:23 < skelterjohn> and don't worry about what the go type should look like
19:24 < str1ngs> aye but..  that didnt work in this guess which worried me
19:24 < str1ngs> s/guess/case
19:24 < skelterjohn> oh
19:24 < str1ngs> alpm_list_it is a list of lists
19:24 < str1ngs> this is the back end for pacman the package manager
19:25 < skelterjohn> for building stuff?
19:25 < str1ngs> ok let me do that and I post the error that will be better
I think
19:26 < str1ngs> cannot use pkg (type unsafe.Pointer) as type *[0]uint8 in
function argument
19:27 < skelterjohn> k, well, as long as you know that what is returned from
alpm_list_getdata() should be passed to alpm_pkg_get_name(), i'd go ahead and do
it like you're doing it
19:28 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: no for installing system packages.  its used
in Archlinux
19:28 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: ok.  thanks
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20:07 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/gYEtO4 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/ -- build:
move $GOBIN ahead of /bin, /usr/bin in build $PATH
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20:14 < evildho> iant: You happen to be around?
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["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device
for enabling you to know that it is"]
20:21 < skelterjohn> evildho?  lol
20:21 < skelterjohn> are you sporting a goatee, now?
20:22 < evildho> heh, haven't had one for a little while
20:22 * evildho is having issues understanding why gcc can't find a general
register in this asm
20:22 < skelterjohn> too low level for me
20:22 * evildho shakes fist at -fPIC
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20:24 < skelterjohn> i don't know what -fPIC does
20:24 < skelterjohn> i just know it shows up in command lines a lot
20:24 < evildho> position independent code
20:25 < evildho> for e.g.  dynamic libraries.  you can't turn it off on
darwin
20:25 < evildho> but how it's implemented is that it uses %ebx
20:25 < evildho> except fucking x86-32 is so register anemic that you
basically have 3 other registers to use.  so you have to push ebx, load ebx from
memory, lock cmpxchg8b, pop ebx
20:26 < skelterjohn> sucks
20:26 < skelterjohn> i guess
20:27 < evildho> which is working fine in other places, but for some reason
in this one place esi and edi are also used, and for some reason even though I
have only memory, eax, edx, and ecx used, it is complaining that it can't find
another register
20:27 < evildho> i don't know what it thinks it needs it for
20:28 < evildho> all the memory arguments can be offsets of ebp :(
20:29 < skelterjohn> i'm glad there are people who can think about these
sorts of problems, so i don't have to
20:32 < aiju> x86-32 3 registers?
20:32 < aiju> more like 6
20:32 < evildho> with fPIC you have 5
20:32 <+iant> evildho: around
20:32 < aiju> why the fuck do people even TRY to write PIC on x86
20:32 < evildho> I'm saying that apparently edi/esi are being used for
something
20:32 < evildho> aiju: I have to support it.  Blame apple.
20:33 < evildho> iant: Mind looking at this code snippet and perhaps
pointing out why esi/edi might be unavailable for gcc?
20:33 <+iant> sure, I can try
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20:34 < evildho> iant: http://dhobsd.pastebin.com/SmT23kFx
20:35 < evildho> iant: the first one seems to compile just fine (with /
without -fPIC), the second one compiles fine without fPIC (as you'd guess), but
with fPIC for some reason runs out of anything in GENERAL_REGS, and I can't figure
out why it would complain there, and not in ck_pr_cas_64
20:36 < evildho> i wonder if it would stop complaining if I did a store_64
in cas_32_2.
20:37 < evildho> the thing is, I have no idea what's eating up edi/esi,
making it think that it can't use them.
20:37 <+iant> what is the error message?  you don't seem to be asking for
anything in GENERAL_REGS at all
20:37 < evildho> i'm not!
20:37 < evildho> ../../../include/gcc/x86/ck_pr.h: In function
‘ck_pr_cas_32_2’:
20:37 < evildho> ../../../include/gcc/x86/ck_pr.h:530: error: can't find a
register in class ‘GENERAL_REGS’ while reloading ‘asm’
20:37 < aiju> inline assembly?
20:38 <+iant> I guess it must be for the z, the =m constraint
20:38 <+iant> it's having a hard time building the address
20:38 < evildho> wouldn't surprise me.
20:38 < evildho> I had that =q before
20:38 < evildho> but gcc would happily compile that to sete %bl
20:39 <+iant> really?  even with -fpic?
20:39 <+iant> that sounds like a bug
20:39 < evildho> yeah
20:40 <+iant> why are you passing s[0] with an "m" constraint?
20:40 < evildho> because i can't put it in ebx
20:40 <+iant> oh yeah, I see
20:40 <+iant> does it help if you give that an "r" constraint?
20:41 < evildho> that complains about Q_REGS
20:41 <+iant> OK, a "q" constraint
20:41 < evildho> same
20:42 < evildho> by "that" you're referring to s[0] right?
20:42 < evildho> not z
20:42 <+iant> yes
20:42 <+iant> OK, what about making (z) be something like =adc
20:42 <+iant> you don't really care about overwriting those values at that
point
20:42 < evildho> that still complains about GENERAL_REGS.
20:43 < evildho> so maybe the confusion is really about s[0]
20:43 <+iant> well, it's everything put together
20:43 <+iant> you have tied up three regs, and then you want three memory
addresses
20:44 < aiju> what's this even about, gccgo?
20:44 <+iant> this isn't really Go related at all
20:44 < evildho> it's non-go related, really.  iant's just the only person i
know with knowledge on teh topic
20:44 < evildho> sorry
20:44 <+iant> If you e-mail me a standalone test case I'll try to take a
look
20:44 <+iant> otherwise I'm just guessing
20:44 <+iant> also, which version of gcc?
20:45 < evildho> 4.1.2
20:45 < aiju> gcc does the weirdest things with inline assembly
20:45 < aiju> references to %dil on x86 machines are funny
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20:52 < evildho> iant: http://dhobsd.pastebin.com/my6BXhGW
20:52 < evildho> compile with cc -fPIC -fomit-frame-pointer test.c -o test
-m32
20:52 < evildho> expected output is 1 1 / 1 1 / 3 3\n3 3 / 1 1 / 3 3\n
20:53 < evildho> (which you get if you get rid of the -f*)
20:54 <+iant> works fine with current mainline and with gcc 4.4.3
20:54 < evildho> great.
20:55 <+iant> fails with gcc 4.1.3, but does work if I use -O
20:55 <+iant> fails with gcc 4.2.4
20:56 <+iant> I don't have 4.3.5 built
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20:56 < evildho>
http://old.nabble.com/Inline-assembler-for-cmpxchg8b-on-x86-%2B-PIC-%2B-frame-pointer-td19669157.html
is the closest thing i can find, which doesn't actually have a solution
20:57 < evildho> oh well
20:57 < evildho> I guess we can release with a compiler caveat on x86-32
20:59 < skelterjohn> what are you working on, dho?
21:00 < evildho> www.concurrencykit.org
21:01 <+iant> evildho: try this version: http://dhobsd.pastebin.com/jtfpkwDp
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21:02 < evildho> huh.  that works.  why?
21:02 * evildho unfamiliar with the p constraint
21:02 <+iant> the 'p' constraint takes a pointer to memory
21:02 <+iant> it is coupled with the %a modifier which turns it into an
address
21:02 < evildho> oh shit
21:03 <+iant> since the asm is clobbering memory anyhow, this is safe
21:03 < evildho> that's a(one)
21:03 * evildho was reading it %al and being like wtf
21:03 <+iant> ah, yeah
21:03 < evildho> ok, that's a nifty trick.
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21:06 < evildho> iant: thank you.  that rocks.
21:06 <+iant> sure
21:06 < evildho> ...and that wraps up the port.
21:08 <+iant> wow, pastebin.com is showing me a Cosmopolitan ad, that seems
like really poor targeting
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21:15 < evildho> lol
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22:00 < bren2010> Could anybody help me with defining a function that takes
a pointer to net.Conn.Dial() as a named parameter?
22:00 < bren2010> I've looked around the site and can't figure it out
myself.
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22:05 < KBme> what do you mean named parameter?
22:05 < KBme> all parameters are named afaik
22:06 < bren2010> Ah. I just meant that I wanted to be able to reference it
by a name I choose.  Like within the function, it can be referenced just like a
variable.
22:12 < KBme> bren2010: this works fine for me: http://dpaste.com/459639/
22:12 < KBme> bren2010: and it's net.Dial eventhough it's under conn in docs
because it returns a connection
22:14 < KBme> this works aswell http://dpaste.com/459643/ no need for the
extra parenthesis
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22:20 < bren2010> Thank you!  :)
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22:21 < KBme> that's not a pointer but i'm guessing a pointer is just as
easy
22:21 < KBme> add a * here, a & there and done ;)
22:24 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/Q0er5V by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ --
gc: bug325 / issue 1566
22:25 < plexdev`> http://is.gd/W8k4Rk by [Dave Cheney] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/ -- build: convert src/cmd to use make directly and simplify src/make.bash
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23:51 < enferex> Are there any go summits/workshops/conferences being
devised?
--- Log closed Tue Mar 01 00:00:29 2011