--- Log opened Tue Mar 01 00:00:29 2011 00:01 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-45-238-234.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:02 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08 -!- i__ [~none@unaffiliated/i--/x-3618442] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:08 -!- i__ [~none@69.164.206.224] has joined #go-nuts 00:28 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:32 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:53 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75.92.43.21] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 00:55 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.187] has joined #go-nuts 01:00 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 01:05 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 01:07 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C65D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:18 -!- JusticeFries_ [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:21 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.178.18] has joined #go-nuts 01:22 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:22 -!- JusticeFries_ [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:22 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-129-122.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:23 -!- arun_ [~arun@i172010.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 01:23 -!- arun_ [~arun@i172010.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 01:23 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts 01:32 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye] 01:32 -!- Natch [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 01:33 -!- Natch| [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:37 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:51 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@adsl-99-37-227-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/c2Tzm1 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/goyacc/ -- goyacc: provide -p flag to set prefix for names. 01:58 < yebyen> does anyone know how to get a two-digit year out of (*time) Format(string) 01:58 < yebyen> if you pass it "02 Jan 06" to mean DD Mon YY 01:59 < yebyen> it just gives me single digit years for 2001-2010 02:00 < yebyen> time.SecondsToLocalTime(unixtime).Format( "02 Jan 06" ) 02:00 < yebyen> like this 02:01 < yebyen> and through ToUpper... 02:01 < yebyen> i get dates like 30 MAY 5 02:02 -!- Tuller [~tuller@c-69-143-52-174.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02 < yebyen> i think you use an _ 02:02 < yebyen> like 02 Jan _6 02:03 < yebyen> well that wasn't it at all 02:07 < yebyen> apparently you can make the leading 0 optional in a day of month by saying _02 02:07 < yebyen> sorry _2 02:07 < yebyen> but you can't make the leading 0 in year optional 02:08 < yebyen> it is by default optional 02:08 < yebyen> if you are asking for a 2 digit year 02:10 < yebyen> what a futile task! tracing down a bug that won't really make a difference again for another 90 years 02:13 -!- bren2010 [~bren2010@24-179-18-179.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com] has left #go-nuts ["Leaving"] 02:23 < yebyen> there's a zeroPad and pad function that are based on int 02:23 < yebyen> looks like since year is in int64, nobody cared to write zeroPad for it 02:23 < yebyen> it's just year%100 and hope you like the looks 02:24 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25 -!- boscop_ [~boscop@f055147252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 02:25 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:27 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055002005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 02:38 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:41 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055147252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:49 -!- KingPhilroy [~kingphilr@shc-nat-newhall.stonehill.edu] has joined #go-nuts 03:10 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:14 -!- Rennex [rennex@giraf.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26 -!- Rennex [rennex@giraf.fi] has joined #go-nuts 03:29 -!- itrekkie_ [~itrekkie@ip72-211-129-122.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 03:29 -!- itrekkie_ [~itrekkie@ip72-211-129-122.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:33 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-129-122.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:35 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has joined #go-nuts 03:42 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.178.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:45 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:04 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 04:08 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:09 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 04:12 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip68-228-51-216.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:17 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:17 -!- Innominate [~sirrobin@cpe-076-182-074-143.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Caught signal 15, Terminated] 04:19 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:20 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:22 -!- Innominate [~sirrobin@cpe-076-182-074-143.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 04:23 -!- dshep [~dss@24.130.32.125] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:24 -!- edsrzf [~kelvan@122-61-221-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #go-nuts 04:26 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:26 < |Craig|> can a net.Conn get garbage collected while connected? If so, what happens? 04:27 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 04:27 < skelterjohn> probably times out on the other end 04:28 < |Craig|> I'm getting orderly disconnects on my client when I do multiple connections to my server, which as far as I can tell does not disconnect 04:29 < skelterjohn> are you holding onto the net.Conn? 04:29 < |Craig|> I think so 04:29 < |Craig|> I make make 40 connections at once, 2 drop and auto reconnect just fine 04:30 < |Craig|> I think I have a race condition 04:30 -!- dshep [~dss@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts 04:31 < |Craig|> Dropping connections at those rates is not bad, but I only call disconnect on one line in the entire server, and that line is not running 04:32 < |Craig|> sometimes I drop one if I connect only 2 at once. 04:35 < |Craig|> I wonder if the issue is a race condition client side, and I broke it when the server performance changed. 04:40 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has joined #go-nuts 04:40 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip68-228-51-216.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:41 -!- dshep [~dss@24.130.32.125] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:42 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip68-228-51-216.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:43 -!- dshep [~user@24.130.32.125] has joined #go-nuts 04:53 -!- keithcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-rbrslrilzrvangkf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:54 < |Craig|> ha, I figured it out! 04:55 < |Craig|> I was starting a go routine with a closure in a loop, bad idea! 04:56 < |Craig|> the loop variable was getting changed inside the closure by the loop.... 04:56 < |Craig|> by the time my read was over, the variable I read from had changed 04:56 < Namegduf> Yeah, you need to copy it to a new variable within the loop, and reference that. 04:57 < Namegduf> (I think that should work?) 04:57 < |Craig|> I just made it not a closure. More clear that way too 04:57 < |Craig|> and I pass in the needed variable 04:58 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:58 < |Craig|> That was my first real race condition bug in go. It took a long time to fix, but not bad considering I'm doing complex stuff and havent done much concurancy before 05:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/huBlmE by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/goyacc/ -- goyacc: clarify it's package, not binary, that has 05:07 -!- amacleod [~amacleod@pool-96-252-93-11.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye] 05:21 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 05:23 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38 -!- sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has joined #go-nuts 05:42 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has joined #go-nuts 05:47 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c7828.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 06:08 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 06:08 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has joined #go-nuts 06:09 -!- vsayer 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[~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 08:49 -!- Stiletto [7f000001@69.195.144.4] has joined #go-nuts 09:05 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 09:07 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 09:08 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:18 -!- zeroXten_ [~zeroXten@0x10.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:18 -!- zeroXten [~zeroXten@0x10.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 09:27 -!- unofficialmvp [~dev@94-62-164-227.b.ipv4ilink.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:28 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 09:29 < jnwhiteh> Namegduf: you can also just pass the loop variable into the closure as an argument instead 09:30 < Namegduf> jnwhiteh: That too, yeah. 09:37 -!- unofficialmvp [~dev@94-62-164-227.b.ipv4ilink.net] has left #go-nuts [] 09:38 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:43 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: personally, i prefer the variable copying approach - it's less code and obvious at the top of the closure what's happening. 09:49 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04 -!- vinisterx [~ryan@74-129-201-27.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 < jnwhiteh> wrtp: aye 10:05 < jnwhiteh> or explicitly naming the closure and then calling it with appropriate arguments 10:05 < jnwhiteh> that tends to clean things up 10:11 < wrtp> yes 10:21 -!- aimxhaisse [~mxs@buffout.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:21 -!- aimxhaisse [~mxs@buffout.org] has joined #go-nuts 10:22 -!- KingPhilroy [~kingphilr@shc-nat-newhall.stonehill.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22 -!- KingPhilroy [~kingphilr@shc-nat-newhall.stonehill.edu] has joined #go-nuts 10:22 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5stRdt by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/doc/ -- doc: add FAQ about large binaries and stack vs heap allocation 10:49 -!- nixness [~dsc@78.101.228.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51 -!- wtfness [~dsc@78.101.228.183] has joined #go-nuts 10:54 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-37-121.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:56 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 11:02 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08 -!- tvw [~tv@e176004028.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.90.92.81] has joined #go-nuts 11:09 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@222.90.92.81] has left #go-nuts [] 11:17 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 11:41 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42 -!- davvid [~davvid@208-106-56-2.static.dsltransport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46 -!- davvid [~davvid@208-106-56-2.static.dsltransport.net] has joined #go-nuts 11:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/E7TnBK by [David Symonds] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: export parseHTTPVersion. 11:55 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055147252.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:31 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 12:41 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 12:41 < Electro^> i just updated Go through HG... and now my mongoDB driver wont work anymore 12:41 < Electro^> those related? 12:41 < Electro^> mongoHandler.go:6: import /home/electro/go/pkg/linux_amd64/github.com/garyburd/go-mongo.a: not a go object file 12:42 < Electro^> the file is there, it just wont accept it anymore 12:43 < taruti> Electro^: reinstall packages 12:43 < Electro^> the driver? or all Go packages? 12:44 < taruti> all probably 12:44 < Electro^> ill try that 12:55 < str1ngs> goinstall -a should fix that iirc 12:56 < Electro^> nope tried that already 12:58 < Electro^> but yes, a complete reinstall of Go and the driver fixed it 12:58 < Electro^> a complete reinstall of the driver didnt work for us 13:03 -!- j3parker [j3parker@artificial-flavours.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:05 -!- j3parker [j3parker@artificial-flavours.csclub.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #go-nuts 13:10 -!- ildorn [~ildorn@dslb-188-105-128-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:12 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@78.112.41.178] has joined #go-nuts 13:12 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@78.112.41.178] has quit [Changing host] 13:12 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has joined #go-nuts 13:25 < skelterjohn> Electro^: goinstall -a -clean 13:30 < skelterjohn> just doing -a will invoke make in each of the libraries, but make will think everything is fine, since the .a and .6 files already exist 13:30 < skelterjohn> -clean will take care of it. 13:31 < Electro^> but we removed the package for the drivers manually beforehand 13:31 < Electro^> shouldnt that take care of that? 13:34 < skelterjohn> in $GOROOT/pkg or $GOROOT/src/pkg? 13:34 < skelterjohn> the old .a files are in $GOROOT/pkg 13:34 < skelterjohn> but the old .6 files in are in $GOROOT/src/pkg 13:34 < skelterjohn> if you only remove the .a files, make will just pack the old .6 files up again 13:35 < skelterjohn> it's a good idea to just run "goinstall -a -clean" whenever you update go 13:36 -!- nictuku [~nictuku@unaffiliated/nictuku] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36 -!- nictuku [~nictuku@cetico.org] has joined #go-nuts 13:41 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-37-121.btc-net.bg] has joined #go-nuts 13:43 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 13:43 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CADA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:44 -!- TheSeeker [~n@99-153-250-110.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 13:48 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has joined #go-nuts 13:54 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:56 -!- TheSeeker [~n@99-153-250-110.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:59 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CADA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:01 < Electro^> skelterjohn: that makes sense 14:01 < Electro^> thank you 14:01 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:03 -!- mbernstein [~michael@cpe-70-113-7-72.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 14:05 < skelterjohn> i've had the very same problem as you :) 14:08 -!- Ognom [~kingkong@mivacukor.lha.sgsnet.se] has joined #go-nuts 14:30 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34 < zozoR> anyone knows how i can setup go-mode in emacs to include a smaller font, a splitwindow with bash bash and a black background : | 14:34 < zozoR> or do i have to learn lisp :( 14:34 < taruti> yes 14:35 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 14:36 < zozoR> taruti, yes to the first or the second? :D 14:36 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:37 < taruti> just use elisp, it is not that hard 14:38 < skelterjohn> I feel your pain, zozoR 14:38 -!- KingPhilroy [~kingphilr@shc-nat-newhall.stonehill.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38 < zozoR> nothing is hard, but it takes time to get to know it 14:39 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 14:39 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has left #go-nuts [] 14:40 < skelterjohn> exactly 14:40 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:40 < zozoR> and who wants to learn lisp anyway :D 14:40 < wrtp> lisp is well worth learning 14:40 < zozoR> (people who wants to use emacs -.-) 14:40 < wrtp> ... just not elisp :-) 14:41 < zozoR> common lisp, elisp, lisp .. how many are there? 14:42 < taruti> scheme 14:42 < taruti> zozoR: dozens 14:43 < zozoR> many programmers are convinced, that because they made it through the pain of learning something stupid, everybody else should learn it too, because its "well worth learning" 14:43 < zozoR> :D 14:43 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.107.6] has joined #go-nuts 14:43 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 14:44 < fzzbt> i just find it funny that they named it after speech disorder 14:45 < zozoR> you try to read it without lisping 14:49 < skelterjohn> understanding functional programming is a plus 14:50 < skelterjohn> aside from TAing or taking a class, I've only one ever had to know lisp. Well, scheme in this case. There is an inference engine written in it, and you express your models in lisp-like syntax 14:52 -!- visof [~visof@unaffiliated/visof] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53 < zozoR> yay, background color black 14:53 < zozoR> next step will be making the go mode show white letters where it used to write black 14:53 < zozoR> : | 14:55 < skelterjohn> lol 14:56 < Electro^> I have some problems understanding interfaces in Go, I have this function http://garyburd.github.com/go-mongo/pkg/mongo.html#RunCommand and i want to send this command to the database: "db.main.update({"fileName" : "test2"}, {$set : {"userName" : ["kingkong", "gynther"]}})". 14:56 < skelterjohn> wouldn't it be easier to just adjust your terminal colors? :) 14:56 < Electro^> We've been at this for some time but cannot figure out how to read the API and use the function to pass commands to the DB. 14:56 < Electro^> I think this is more a problem of us not understanding Go, than a mongoDB problem though 14:56 < skelterjohn> (looking) 14:57 < Electro^> thank you 14:57 < skelterjohn> so, you have a Conn? 14:57 < Electro^> indeed 14:57 < Electro^> and a namespace 14:58 < skelterjohn> what is db.main.update 14:59 < skelterjohn> is that just a string that you send? 14:59 < Electro^> its mongoDB command, update is the command, db.main is the collection 14:59 < Electro^> so db.main would be the namespace 15:00 < skelterjohn> what is $set 15:00 < Electro^> err = mongo.SafeInsert(conn, dBCollection, nil, map[string]interface{}{"fileName": fileInsert} 15:00 < Electro^> is an example of working code using SafeInsert 15:00 < Electro^> $set is a mongoDB command to insert the username entries into the test2 document 15:01 < skelterjohn> so how can you make a Doc instance out of that command? 15:01 < Electro^> well that command works in the mongoDB shell fine 15:01 -!- imsplitbit [~imsplitbi@64.39.4.132] has joined #go-nuts 15:01 < Electro^> our problem is sending the same command to the DB from google Go code 15:01 < skelterjohn> oh, probably new(Doc), and then theDoc.Append("filename", "test2") 15:01 < Electro^> through the driver 15:02 < skelterjohn> yes, i understand the issue. 15:02 < Electro^> righty 15:02 < skelterjohn> i mean, the Doc type only has one method, and it is Append(string, interface{}) 15:02 < skelterjohn> so append all the bits of that statement? 15:03 < Electro^> .. that actually makes sense 15:03 < Electro^> i need to test that 15:03 < skelterjohn> well, how do you specify that it is update 15:03 < Electro^> ... well that also a problem... 15:03 < Electro^> or is it 15:03 < skelterjohn> probably should use .SafeUpdate 15:03 < Electro^> its in the namespace 15:03 < skelterjohn> since you want to do an update 15:04 < skelterjohn> i'm not sure how the selector would work 15:04 < skelterjohn> that's the problem with having something be type interface{} 15:04 < skelterjohn> the function signature tells you nothing 15:04 < Electro^> indeed 15:13 < Electro^> well so far ive gotten a runtime panic and an empty map 15:13 < Electro^> but atleast it'll compile 15:13 < Electro^> (testing further) 15:16 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 15:17 < Electro^> no more panic but DB returns "no such cmd" 15:17 < Electro^> it looks better atleast... :) 15:19 < skelterjohn> wish i could be more hel 15:19 < skelterjohn> p 15:19 < skelterjohn> i've never used mongo 15:19 < skelterjohn> or heard of it until i saw go projects interfacing to it 15:19 < Electro^> you've been helpful 15:19 < Electro^> you got me thinking, and on the right track 15:20 < skelterjohn> good, then 15:22 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:24 -!- ampleyfly [ampleyfly@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hiitmqbrghdoafhz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:25 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CADA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:26 < ww> mongo is nice but min requirements are a bit high 15:26 < hokapoka> Erm, shoudl goinstall <repo> update a package that's already been installed? I had to delete the source and re-run goinstall to get the new changes for a package. 15:26 < ww> requires 2x 64-bit hosts at a minimum if you care about your data 15:27 < aiju> i use the in-kernel database called "filesystem" most of the time 15:27 < hokapoka> Electro^: I'm using garys gomongo, really like it. 15:27 < ww> aiju hear hear 15:27 < hokapoka> I ported from another driver that I used for about 4/5 months. 15:28 < aiju> people putting all kind of stupid shit (website content, logs, ..) in databases annoy me 15:28 < ww> couldn't agree more 15:28 < Electro^> hokapoka: really? then you should be able to answer, since we are getting crazy her :) 15:29 < hokapoka> I can't quite workout what you're asking? 15:29 < hokapoka> You just trying to insert? 15:29 < aiju> sequential access on databases is so slow, it's not even funny 15:29 < Electro^> im trying to use RunCommand() to send various commands to the DB, commands not in the driver 15:29 < hokapoka> Oh right what command? 15:30 < Electro^> "db.main.update({"fileName" : "test2"}, {$set : {"userName" : ["kingkong", "gynther"]}})" 15:30 < Electro^> this command for example 15:30 < Electro^> which works fine in the shell 15:30 < Electro^> but we have no idea how to use from Go 15:32 < hokapoka> 2 ticks 15:32 < skelterjohn> hokapoka: goinstall -clean <repo> 15:32 < skelterjohn> err 15:32 < skelterjohn> goinstall -u <repo> 15:32 < skelterjohn> to update 15:33 < hokapoka> aha 15:33 < skelterjohn> and remember to goinstall -a -u -clean when you update go 15:34 * wrtp hates it when something compiles first time. 15:34 < skelterjohn> wrtp: yeah - it's suspicious 15:35 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-45-238-234.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 15:36 -!- jeng [~jeng@74.194.1.28] has joined #go-nuts 15:36 < hokapoka> Electro^: why are you using the runCommand over the mongo.Update 15:36 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:37 < hokapoka> *conn.Update 15:38 < Electro^> we were looking for a way to send any kind of mongoDB command to the server, but perhaps the driver can do that if we look hard enough 15:38 < hokapoka> conn.Update("main", {"fileName":"test2"}, {"$set":{"...."} 15:38 < Electro^> ... 15:38 < Electro^> so thats how you use interfaces 15:39 < Electro^> gimme a sec, need to test that 15:40 < hokapoka> the update interfase needs to be : update := map[string]interface{}{ "$set":map[srting]interface{}{ "userName": "foobar"} } 15:41 -!- thiago__ [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:41 < hokapoka> As for sending commands Here's one I created for findAndModify 15:41 < hokapoka> https://github.com/garyburd/go-mongo/issues/closed#issue/3 15:41 < hokapoka> Gary has since added FindAndUpdate / FindAndRemove to the package. 15:41 < hokapoka> https://github.com/garyburd/go-mongo/issues/closed#issue/3/comment/797142 15:41 < hokapoka> That one in fact 15:42 < hokapoka> If you want to use runCommand you can only use the command that accepted by runCommand. 15:43 < hokapoka> Which are listed here : http://api.mongodb.org/internal/current/commands.html 15:45 < Electro^> oh 15:45 < Electro^> now im starting to understand 15:46 < hokapoka> For Example ensureIndex isn't there. The only way to create an index is via inserting into the system.indexes collection. 15:47 < hokapoka> I have created a simple example on my fork, https://github.com/hokapoka/go-mongo/blob/master/helpers.go#L132 but I think Gary has created a better one but it's not bee pushed yet 15:48 < Electro^> right 15:48 < Electro^> well i got the code to work, and this blockage which have stopped us for some days have passed now 15:48 < Electro^> im very grateful 15:48 < Electro^> thank you 15:48 < hokapoka> No problem. 15:50 < hokapoka> I had a bit of an issue when I ported from the other mongo driver. I was used to setting up a single connection that was shared throughout many go routines, but there's a type pool that you're supposed to use instead. 15:51 < hokapoka> Electro^: I've never found the need to use that SafeConn. I use the methods od conn directally, and it's behaved flawlessly. I think I would only use it if I were ttrying to do some atomic update. 15:52 < zozoR> is VIM easier to figure out and config than enacs? : | 15:52 < aiju> VIM and emacs are pretty similar 15:53 -!- mattn_jp [~mattn@112-68-83-220f1.hyg1.eonet.ne.jp] has joined #go-nuts 15:53 < jumzi> aiju has been sniffing the oranges again 15:53 < aiju> haha 15:53 -!- pharris [~Adium@rhgw.opentext.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:53 < aiju> i mean, VIM has *two* turing complete languages built in 15:53 < Electro^> hokapoka: yeah we use the conn.dial ourselves 15:54 < nsf> zozoR: vim is kind of usable in default configuration 15:54 < nsf> emacs isn't 15:54 < Electro^> hokapoka: conn, err := mongo.Dial(dBIP) 15:54 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176100079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:54 < Electro^> that one specifically 15:54 < zozoR> i think ill play a little with vim then .. 15:54 < nsf> try both 15:54 < Electro^> but i must be off now, take care 15:54 < jumzi> zozoR: Whatever you choose, you'll spend six months learning it 15:55 < nsf> because one way or another you'll want to try them 15:55 < nsf> why wait :) 15:55 < jumzi> I used vim for two years until i had enough 15:55 < aiju> i personally use VIM 15:55 * taruti uses mostly emacs and acme 15:55 < jumzi> I still do sometimes, but i prefer acme and sam on <-- weird guy 15:55 < aiju> acme is unusable with a clit mouse 15:55 < nsf> it doesn't matter what editor you'll end up using 15:56 < jumzi> now* 15:56 < nsf> just find something that you like 15:56 < zozoR> now i cant remember why i would want to change editor 15:56 < jumzi> aiju: buy a clit mouse? 15:56 < aiju> and if you like eclipse .. may god help you 15:58 < hokapoka> jumzi: I've been thinking about trying plan9 out. I did for about 20 mins but got caught up with something I think I still have the thing installed. 15:58 < hokapoka> I'm assuming you're using sam & acme on p9 15:58 < jumzi> Actually i do, altough most ppl use p9p for that nowadays 15:58 < jumzi> (i think) 16:00 < jumzi> But it's a really nice system with many great ideas 16:01 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 16:01 < hokapoka> I've been thinking more and more recently in trying it, mainly for a distributed system I'm writing in go. 16:02 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02 < jumzi> To bad the go port isn't complete :/ 16:02 < hokapoka> I've using netchan alot atm, wondered if it would be easier to manage migration of the processes. 16:02 < hokapoka> argh, well that's what I was going to read up on. 16:03 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.107.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@41.138.67.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:06 -!- ildorn [~ildorn@dslb-188-105-128-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 16:20 < aiju> ... someone just told me he thinks "foo = &Foo{some stuff, next: foo}" is unreadable 16:20 < aiju> i find it beautiful :D 16:21 < wrtp> aiju: they're wrong 16:23 < skelterjohn> it's pretty readable 16:23 < wrtp> it's exactly the same as in a list-oriented language, e.g. foo = var : foo 16:25 -!- bortzmeyer [~bortzmeye@batilda.nic.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25 < aiju> fuck 16:25 < aiju> rob fixed the missing prefix in goyacc in three hours 16:25 < aiju> now i already split my program into multiple packages 16:26 -!- ymasory_ [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:26 < skelterjohn> darned responsive devs 16:26 < aiju> yeah 16:26 < aiju> there should be more like Apple devs 16:27 < aiju> (there are trivial webkits bug which haven't even been acknowledged since '07) 16:27 < wrtp> aiju: you didn't even have to split your program :-) 16:27 < wrtp> ... even without the fix 16:27 < aiju> wrtp: how so? 16:27 < aiju> (to quote a friend of mine, "webkit is the new IE") 16:27 < wrtp> you can have to disjoint grammars within the same grammar 16:27 < wrtp> s/to/two 16:27 < aiju> oh wow 16:28 < aiju> but blah it would make it even more messy than it is right now 16:28 < wrtp> just don't share any symbols 16:28 < wrtp> well, that's another argument :-) 16:28 < aiju> yeah, i'd have to put prefixes on my symbols 16:28 < wrtp> yeah 16:28 < aiju> arch_expr and asm_expr 16:28 < wrtp> the go compiler does something similar 16:28 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED42E59.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:28 < wrtp> it uses a different grammar for .a files 16:29 < wrtp> you could just use a single letter 16:29 < wrtp> aExpr, mExpr 16:29 < wrtp> or whatever 16:29 < wrtp> anyway, you don't need it any more 16:29 < wrtp> (but it's a useful technique for future reference) 16:30 < aiju> blah rebuilding Go 16:32 < skelterjohn> thinking about recommending that "goinstall -a -clean" is added to all.bash 16:32 -!- Davidian1024 [~Davidian1@cpe-173-88-186-130.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:32 < skelterjohn> every few days i see a problem for which that is the solution 16:35 -!- maattd [~maattd@esc31-1-78-245-92-71.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 < aiju> somehow, gc got slow 16:36 < aiju> it seems slower than gcc :O 16:39 < aiju> is ogle what i think it is? 16:42 < skelterjohn> supposed to be a debugger 16:42 < skelterjohn> eventually 16:47 -!- tobik [~tobik@p4FCBE9C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:48 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C556.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:48 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 16:49 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 16:49 -!- dfr|mac [~dfr|work@ool-182e3fca.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:49 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:49 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 16:56 < aiju> types on global variables are now optional? wow 16:57 < aiju> does anyone happen to know since when? 17:00 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01 < wrtp> aiju: they always have been 17:02 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:02 < skelterjohn> yeah, since forever :) 17:02 < skelterjohn> but only if you assign them something 17:02 < skelterjohn> you can't have just "var x" by itself 17:02 < skelterjohn> but you can have "var x = 2" or "var x = "hi" 17:03 < skelterjohn> with more quotes for that last one 17:03 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03 -!- cfedde [~cfedde@c-67-165-220-38.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:05 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 17:11 < aiju> oh wow, odd 17:11 < aiju> i remember some lengthy discussion about that in here ;P 17:11 < aiju> why it's an unnecessary feature and such 17:11 < aiju> and why Go should not have it 17:12 < aiju> or maybe my imagination is running wild :D 17:12 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@adsl-99-37-227-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:12 < aiju> i wish nil was treated as an empty map 17:15 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-bcqyzomdkscfdyzs] has joined #go-nuts 17:15 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 17:21 -!- jokoon [~zonax@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:23 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@adsl-99-37-227-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24 < aiju> is there some way to figure out the function name from a function pointer? 17:26 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c602d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:27 -!- sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:28 <+iant> aiju: no, there may not even be a name 17:28 < aiju> .. just for debugging 17:28 < aiju> so i'll keep a table, it's not too many anyway 17:28 < aiju> align is nicer to read than 0x808597597 :P 17:29 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.61.162.99] has joined #go-nuts 17:38 -!- artefon [~thiagon@150.164.2.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:40 < jokoon> i prefer 0x808597597 17:44 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.61.162.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49 -!- JusticeFries_ [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:50 -!- xyproto [~alexander@77.40.159.131] has joined #go-nuts 17:51 < xyproto> hello, I want to have a bunch of strings mapped to other strings. What's the easiest way to do that. Also, I'm sruggling with basic syntax, what's wrong with x := map[string]string{"a":"b"} ? 17:52 < xyproto> *struggling 17:52 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:52 -!- sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has joined #go-nuts 17:52 < sav> ms 17:52 < sav> oops 17:56 < xyproto> ok, if I don't use := but =, it works. Why? *baffled* 17:56 < dfr|work> xyproto, i think you first have define the variable and only then initialize it... but not sure... 17:57 < dfr|work> xyproto, map[string]string does sound like the thing for the job though 17:57 < xyproto> dfr|work: ok, thanks 17:57 < hokapoka> humm, I've got an error on ./all.bash tests - FAIL: syslog.TestNew 17:57 < xyproto> dfr|work: Does it fail because := is for values and = for pointers? 17:57 < xyproto> no, that can't be it 17:58 < dfr|work> xyproto, http://pastie.org/1621561 seems to work.... 17:58 < dfr|work> mhmm... what would be really cool if playground could also work as pastie >.< 17:58 < xyproto> hokapoka: there's an environment variable named something like DISABLE_TESTS (can't remember). It may work for you. 17:59 < skelterjohn> xyproto: what you posted seems like it should work 17:59 < skelterjohn> perhaps the problem is elsewhere 17:59 < skelterjohn> xyproto: you're talking about DISABLE_NET_TESTS=1 17:59 < skelterjohn> but that's not for TestNew :) 17:59 < xyproto> skelterjohn: no, I think there's another environment variable too 17:59 < skelterjohn> ok then 18:01 < xyproto> skelterjohn: nope, x := map[string]string{"a": "b"}, tried it on the compiler on the golang.org front page. It failed. 18:01 < xyproto> the := makes the difference 18:01 < xyproto> I have no idea why 18:01 < skelterjohn> oh - is this a global variable? 18:02 < xyproto> no, it does work on the webpage, I was mistaken 18:02 < skelterjohn> :) 18:02 < xyproto> but that does not invalidate what I said about there being another environment variable ;) 18:03 < xyproto> so there :P 18:04 < xyproto> ah, everything works now. Thanks for your help. :) 18:04 < dfr|work> xyproto, so does := work or not work? the code I pastied seems to work on the playground 18:04 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04 < xyproto> dfr|work: it works 18:05 < dfr|work> xyproto, yay! :D 18:05 < xyproto> dfr|work: no idea what strangeness I introduced here. Copy and paste problems, perhaps. 18:05 < xyproto> dfr|work: and yay \o/ 18:06 < xyproto> I was afraid I would have to do stuff like hi := &hw { wrld: make(map[string]string) } 18:06 < xyproto> found on a mailinglist 18:07 < dfr|work> xyproto, i think go tries really hard to not do heavy differentiation between a pointer and an object. So far I don't think I've seen their behavior beinh different, except when passing by value/reference... =/ 18:07 < dfr|work> but I'm a nub, so I probably just didn't dig hard enough yet... 18:07 < xyproto> nub high five 18:08 < skelterjohn> a pointer is just a particular sort of instance 18:09 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, well. I always thought of a pointer being a reference that you can do pointer arithmetic on. I am not sure, but I don't think Go allows doing pointer arithmetic. 18:09 < skelterjohn> it does not 18:09 < xyproto> there is an "unsafe" package, maybe pointer acrobatics is allowed there? 18:09 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, and then when I was doing the Google Go course, the dude was stressing a lot the & and * conversions.... but the only thing I saw that pointer and object/reference behaved differently was when you're passing it into a function.... 18:09 < skelterjohn> i always thought of a reference as a pointer that you can do regular operations on :) 18:10 < aiju> xyproto: yes, but it's awkward 18:10 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, so I am kinda confused if there's more difference, or not really... 18:10 < skelterjohn> xyproto: yes - you can convert a pointer to a uint and do arithmetic 18:10 < dfr|work> and if not really, why the conversions are stressed so much =/ 18:10 < aiju> "timeo unsafe et dona ferentem" should be along the Go mottos 18:10 < xyproto> I think it's a good thing that pointer arithmetic is designed to be akward 18:11 < aiju> it's not designed to be awkward 18:11 < aiju> it just happens to be 18:11 < xyproto> I think it's good either way 18:11 < skelterjohn> dfr|work: as far as receiver functions go, pointers and values have similar syntax 18:11 < skelterjohn> but different behavior 18:11 < skelterjohn> for instance, if you call a function on a value instance, the value instance cannot be changed by the function 18:12 < skelterjohn> while it can if you call it on a pointer 18:12 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, but that stems from the fact that you're passing by value in first, right? 18:12 < skelterjohn> yes 18:13 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, so right. That makes sense, but that seems like the only place where pointers and objects are different.... 18:13 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 18:13 < skelterjohn> as in, one is a value, and the other is a pointer to a value? yes of course 18:13 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, basically, if that's the only difference, I don't see why I'd ever have to do something like x := &y or *x 18:14 < skelterjohn> um 18:14 < dfr|work> I'd want to do foo(&y) to denote the passing by reference, but that's about it =/ 18:14 < skelterjohn> there you go 18:14 < skelterjohn> that's a useful thing to be able to do 18:14 < xyproto> go is the next best thing since sliced cheese <3 18:14 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 18:14 < skelterjohn> also, when you pass a pointer around, only one word of memory is passed around 18:14 < aiju> hahahahaha 18:15 < skelterjohn> if you pass the whole object, potentially lots of data is copied 18:15 < skelterjohn> depending on the type 18:15 < aiju> making value/reference explicit is a really good thing imho 18:15 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, well yes. That's why I'd probably be mostly doing & everywhere... or C++ style, do const & :) 18:15 < aiju> references in C++ are totally retarded 18:15 < dfr|work> aiju, agreed. ;) 18:15 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:15 < skelterjohn> they're just * in sheep's clothing 18:16 < skelterjohn> i never found them confusing 18:16 < aiju> getting something done with a reference is like picking a random child and ask him about a math problem in ancient babylonian 18:16 < xyproto> deconstructors are retarded in C++ as well, the order is not defined 18:16 < xyproto> defer kicks ass, in that light 18:17 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17 < skelterjohn> defer and destructors don't serve the same purpose, really 18:17 < xyproto> no, but still 18:17 < dfr|work> on a completely different topic: the object files compiled by the go compiler are quite different from regular C object files, correct? =/ 18:17 < xyproto> I haven't found something that is in an undefined order yet in Go 18:17 < skelterjohn> dfr|work: yes 18:17 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, is there a way to interface them or not really? 18:17 < xyproto> (that needs to be) 18:17 < skelterjohn> yes - cgo 18:17 < skelterjohn> take a look at $GOROOT/misc/cgo 18:17 < skelterjohn> for examples 18:18 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, awesome. Then perhaps I can use go to write binary ruby extensions.. interesting 18:18 < skelterjohn> it's tougher to go the other way 18:18 < aiju> 19:19 < xyproto> I haven't found something that is in an undefined order yet in Go 18:18 < skelterjohn> a go program invoking C code is easy 18:18 < xyproto> check out "static initialization order fiasco" for C++ horribleness: http://www.parashift.com/c++-faq-lite/ctors.html#faq-10.15 18:18 < aiju> not sure; but isn't parameter evaluation in an undefined order? 18:18 < skelterjohn> a C program invoking go code is hard 18:18 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, well, I do mean the other way. 18:18 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, compiling Go to C object code. 18:18 < skelterjohn> gccgo 18:19 < skelterjohn> but i don't know much about that 18:19 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, okay, that's what I was thinking would do the trick. 18:19 < aiju> but gccgo eats children 18:19 < dfr|work> aiju, yea =/ 18:19 < skelterjohn> that's what i hear 18:19 < dfr|work> anyhow... I was just curious in general, when I'm finally picking up a go project or something =/ 18:19 < skelterjohn> what's your field? 18:20 < xyproto> aiju: I knew someone would try to prove me wrong ;) I honestly don't know if there are undefined orders in Go, but the rest feels so orderly, so I'm biased 18:20 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, well, I'm an engineer at google. But I <3 ruby. 18:20 < skelterjohn> so, web stuff 18:20 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, yes. 18:20 < aiju> ruby? YUCK 18:20 < dfr|work> aiju, ;) 18:20 < aiju> srsly, .nonzero? 18:20 < dfr|work> aiju, there's enough of ugly ruby to go around as well. :P 18:20 < xyproto> ruby is okay, it can feel sturdier than python, but it's slow, though 18:20 < aiju> ruby is as far from orthogonal as possible 18:20 -!- ampleyfly [ampleyfly@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-eulkmzkbaoxyanwf] has joined #go-nuts 18:21 < skelterjohn> javascript? 18:21 < nsf> lua 18:21 < nsf> ! 18:21 < nsf> :) 18:21 < aiju> javascript is hundred times more orthogonal than ruby 18:21 < dfr|work> anyhow... didn't mean to start the language war here... ;) 18:21 < xyproto> nsf: counting from 1, pft ;) 18:21 < aiju> javascript is a minimalist language compared to ruby 18:21 < skelterjohn> i'm trying to make a js/go ajax app. js is silly. 18:21 < nsf> :D 18:21 < skelterjohn> dfr|work: it happens every few hours 18:22 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, i figured. It is funny to see people trash other languages though. ;) 18:22 < aiju> i did some language benchmarking some time ago and DAMN i didn't include ruby 18:22 < skelterjohn> you could tune in to #ajiu all day 18:22 < aiju> hahahaahahah 18:22 < skelterjohn> #aiju 18:22 < dfr|work> aiju, well, I like it not because of speed. ;) 18:22 < aiju> i'm not too much into speed arguments either 18:23 < aiju> .nonzero? is a much better argument 18:23 < xyproto> dfr|work: do you like it because of << | and _why_ ? 18:23 < dfr|work> aiju, mhmm? 18:23 < aiju> why can't you just write x != 0? 18:23 < dfr|work> xyproto, no. I like it because when I write ruby code, I pretty much write what I want to say. 18:23 < aiju> ruby looks like the new COBOL 18:23 < aiju> MULTIPLY VALUE BY 500 18:24 -!- ymasory_ [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24 < xyproto> dfr|work: that's a good argument. I like ruby too. I wrote crossfading status-text for "rubyroom" a few years ago :P *shameless self-promotion* 18:24 < dfr|work> xyproto, so I guess I'm a fan of .nonzero? even though this is actually the first time I'm aware it exists. :) 18:24 < aiju> that thing is just an example 18:24 < dfr|work> aiju, yea, I realize. The thing is that I like that numbers are objects =/ 18:24 < aiju> ruby is full of functions _no person ever would actually need_ 18:25 < nsf> I've just realized that it's impossible to use some of the C99 headers in a C++ app directly 18:25 -!- belkiss [~kvirc@drn13-1-78-235-168-105.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:25 < aiju> because it is _trivial_ and even _shorter_ without them 18:25 < nsf> :\ 18:25 < dfr|work> aiju, but you _are_ speaking for just yourself. ;) 18:25 < aiju> hahahah 18:25 -!- Natch [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:26 < xyproto> I hope web development in Go, with web.go or something else, will become widespread 18:26 < nsf> xyproto: I think it won't 18:26 < skelterjohn> i'm using web.go 18:26 < skelterjohn> it's pretty sweet 18:26 < xyproto> skelterjohn: I really like it too 18:26 < nsf> monkeys won't speak Go, they speak PHP 18:26 -!- Natch| [~natch@c-6dcde155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:26 < skelterjohn> client-side/server-side? 18:27 < aiju> "PHP is just a set of functions you can call and probably should not" (kfx?) 18:27 < nsf> :) 18:27 < aiju> i hope NaCl will fail 18:27 < nsf> I hope it won't 18:27 < dfr|work> aiju, also, nonzero? may be useful for floats, as they have two representations for zero. But just theoritizing. 18:27 < aiju> i want to switch away from fucking x86 in the future 18:27 < dfr|work> aiju, i never had to deal too much with floats in ruby, so don't know for sure. 18:27 < xyproto> HTML5/canvas client side, web.go server side, and some fancypancy document-oriented db like MongoDB sounds like a nice setup to me 18:27 < nsf> aiju: they have plans to use LLVM bytecode 18:27 < aiju> and i don't want silly web apps to prevent me from it 18:28 < aiju> gosh, why don't they just replace the entire OS by a browser? 18:28 < aiju> oh wait, chrome os 18:28 < nsf> that's what they are doing 18:28 < xyproto> aiju: we can invent the next big thing, assemblyttp, where assembly is transferred and executed on the fly ;) 18:30 < xyproto> speaking of user-interaction, has anyone been successful in making opengl work for Go? Here, it depends on SDL that just won't compile (complains about image, even though sdl_image is installed) 18:31 < skelterjohn> xyproto: Go-OpenGL 18:31 < skelterjohn> on the dashboard list 18:31 < nsf> xyproto: on linux there is an issue with nvidia driver 18:31 < skelterjohn> though i have not gotten it to work, personally 18:31 < nsf> Go-OpenGL apps are segfaulting 18:31 < nsf> have no idea what's on mac or win 18:32 < nsf> at least, that was true last time i checked 18:32 < xyproto> I'm only on 64-bit Arch Linux these days, and it segfaults here as well, yes 18:33 < nsf> well, I'm on x86 arch linux 18:33 < nsf> but I don't think it is arch's issue 18:34 < xyproto> nsf: me neither. And Go Arch :P 18:34 < nsf> someone said that downgrading driver helps 18:34 < nsf> but I haven't checked that 18:34 < nsf> didn't* 18:34 < nsf> anyways, the problem is here 18:35 < xyproto> have you seen! It works here now, with the latest git versions 18:35 < xyproto> I wouldn't have thought. 18:35 < nsf> hm.. 18:35 < xyproto> that must be a recent improvement, because I've been checking regularly 18:36 < xyproto> yey :) 18:36 < skelterjohn> what works now, opengl? 18:36 < nsf> I'll take a look later, I'm busy reinventing C 18:36 < xyproto> yes, SDL and OpenGL with Go on 64-bit Arch Linux 18:36 < xyproto> :) 18:36 < aiju> people forgetting C are forced to reinvent it, poorly 18:36 < xyproto> the draw example compiles and runs without a hitch 18:36 < xyproto> and gogears 18:37 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has joined #go-nuts 18:37 < xyproto> but the gomandel example does not compile 18:37 < nsf> xyproto: it's broken, yeah 18:37 < xyproto> I'll update go here, though, just to be sure 18:37 < nsf> I'm the original author btw 18:37 < xyproto> nsf: nice :) 18:37 < nsf> of gomandel example 18:37 < xyproto> nsf: and the opengl for go project? 18:37 < skelterjohn> ^5 18:38 < nsf> nope 18:38 < nsf> I did just an example 18:38 < xyproto> nfs: ok. It only seems like it's this, though: gomandel.go:140: cannot use multiple-value assignment for non-blocking receive; use select 18:38 < aiju> xyproto: oh yeah, they changed that 18:38 < aiju> one of the most stupid changes imho :P 18:38 < nsf> yeah, there was a bunch of language changes 18:38 < xyproto> aha 18:38 < nsf> and float removal also 18:38 < xyproto> I'll update go to the freshest of freshness 18:38 < aiju> floating point is for wimps anyway 18:39 < nsf> it's totally unmaintained 18:39 < aiju> real men use fixed point 18:39 * aiju is parodying FORTH programmers, just to clarify :P 18:39 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.78.144] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 < nsf> lol, I don't know why, I like this syntax for pointers: 18:40 < nsf> var x ->int; 18:40 < aiju> hahahaha 18:40 < nsf> taken from zinc programming language 18:40 < skelterjohn> heh 18:40 < nsf> you can read '->' pretty much directly as 'pointer to' 18:40 < skelterjohn> what about: var @x int 18:40 < nsf> :D 18:40 < skelterjohn> what is at x is an int 18:40 < nsf> skelterjohn: no no 18:41 < aiju> i'm a C programmer, after years of using it, one eight of my brain is now specialized for evaluating C declarations 18:41 < skelterjohn> nsf: yes yes 18:41 < nsf> @ - fits as a pointer dereference op 18:41 < skelterjohn> right - and if you dereference x, it's an int 18:41 < aiju> and now, thanks Go, -> is a channel for me 18:41 < nsf> var y = @x; 18:41 < skelterjohn> -> is not chan 18:41 < skelterjohn> <- is chan 18:42 < aiju> i'm a bit into topology, those are homeomorphic 18:42 < aiju> just like probably any other character lol 18:42 < skelterjohn> except one is a go operator, and one is not 18:42 < nsf> skelterjohn: btw, nice idea (@ operator) 18:42 < nsf> I like that :D 18:42 < xyproto> to me, -> is the "goes to" operator: while( x --> 0 ) // x goes to 0 ... 18:43 < skelterjohn> it's how i read * anyway, in my head 18:43 < aiju> blah 18:43 < aiju> y'all need more C 18:43 < nsf> I don't read it, I just understand it 18:43 < nsf> ehm.. 18:43 < nsf> anyways 18:43 < nsf> @ is cool :) 18:43 < aiju> do it like many assemblers 18:43 < aiju> () is a pointer dereference 18:44 < nsf> no 18:44 < skelterjohn> () is grouping and that is how it should stay 18:44 < aiju> i should write that on my list for potential esoteric language features 18:44 < nsf> although, some parts of the code look weird with -> 18:44 < nsf> like: 18:44 < nsf> func main(argc int, argv ->->char) int 18:44 < nsf> :D 18:44 < skelterjohn> @@argv char! 18:44 < nsf> no 18:44 < skelterjohn> :) 18:44 < nsf> :) 18:44 < aiju> char** or gtfo 18:45 < nsf> aiju: C's declaration syntax is broken 18:45 < aiju> tbqh, yes 18:45 < skelterjohn> i would like it to be: argv &&char, tbh 18:45 < xyproto> now, if only there were void pointers in Go *ducks* 18:45 < skelterjohn> argv is the address of the address of a char 18:45 < aiju> but **char is fine 18:45 < aiju> xyproto: there are 18:45 < aiju> xyproto: interface{} 18:45 < xyproto> what? 18:46 < nsf> I like void* 18:46 < xyproto> my whole world is falling apart 18:46 < aiju> interface{} is pretty much like a safe void pointer 18:46 < skelterjohn> and since go doesn't have ref types, we could have usd it for pointer types 18:46 < aiju> Go does have reference types 18:46 < skelterjohn> i mean, C++ style int& x 18:46 < aiju> maps, specifically 18:46 < nsf> in Go there is a void* 18:46 < skelterjohn> map is a secret pointer 18:46 < aiju> blah 18:46 < nsf> it's called unsafe.Pointer 18:46 < aiju> unsafe.Pointer is a cross between uintptr and a real pointer 18:47 < nsf> because like void* you can convert any pointer type to it and back 18:47 < skelterjohn> well, map is a struct that contains a pointer 18:47 < nsf> uintptr is for arithmetic 18:47 < aiju> you can't compile Go code for PDP-10, this really sucks 18:48 < nsf> :) 18:48 < aiju> the specs need uint36 18:48 < aiju> those 32/64 chauvinists! 18:48 < nsf> I don't think someone cares about something else than x86/x86_64/PPC/arm 18:49 < nsf> PPC is still alive, because it's in playstation 3 18:50 < nsf> well, not just playstation 18:50 < aiju> MIPS maybe 18:50 < aiju> idk how alive that one is 18:50 < nsf> it's in Wii also and in a bunch of other game consoles 18:50 < aiju> i just know some embedded systems with it 18:50 < aiju> and virtually any university uses it for teaching assembly lol 18:51 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 18:52 < nsf> oh, we have 'pointer to' type specified (->), pointer dereference operator (@), but what about 'address of' op? 18:53 < nsf> &? 18:53 < nsf> or no, '?' <- like "where is this var?" 18:53 < aiju> haha 18:53 < KBme> heh 18:54 < nsf> var x int; var y ->int = ?x; 18:54 < nsf> lol 18:54 < skelterjohn> heh 18:54 < aiju> 卐x because pointer arithmetic is evil 18:54 < TheSeeker> hah 18:54 < nsf> I should use every symbol on a keyboard in syntax 18:54 < nsf> :P 18:54 < skelterjohn> just write K code 18:54 < aiju> you should use every symbol in Unicode 18:55 < KBme> APL++ 18:57 -!- belkiss [~kvirc@drn13-1-78-235-168-105.fbx.proxad.net] has left #go-nuts ["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device for enabling you to know that it is"] 18:57 < nsf> I guess I'll just leave '&' 18:58 < nsf> or not 18:58 * nsf will test it by converting C code to that new syntax 18:58 < nsf> :P 19:00 -!- keithcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-tlcdcugkztvfexfn] has joined #go-nuts 19:00 < skelterjohn> not a fan of -> 19:01 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-11-114.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #go-nuts 19:01 < nsf> but it really makes sense on a page 19:02 < nsf> and no one will use my language anyway 19:02 < nsf> so, it doesn't matter, lol 19:02 < skelterjohn> how about: var x int; var y int@; x = @y 19:02 < nsf> no 19:02 < skelterjohn> it's the "int at" type 19:02 < skelterjohn> it makes perfect sense! 19:03 < jokoon> I have a problem I can't solve: I have a pentakis dodecahedron net image, a printer that prints on A4 sheets, and I want to print several part so I can make the net on thicker paper, so I can have a big strong shape 19:03 < nsf> no, I like -> 19:04 < femtoo> func main() { var N int; fmt.Scan(N) } 19:04 < femtoo> is this excpected to terminate immediately 19:04 < femtoo> ? 19:04 < jokoon> but if I do it in separate parts, I can't have all the parts with the same size 19:04 < femtoo> because on windows it does 19:05 < aiju> femtoo: Scan wants a pointer 19:05 < aiju> fmt.Scan(&N) 19:05 < skelterjohn> femtoo: err = fmt.Scan(...) 19:05 < skelterjohn> :) 19:05 < femtoo> thanks now it works 19:05 < skelterjohn> if you don't check error conditions, don't be surprised if you don't know why it's not working 19:06 < femtoo> skelterjohn, its only quick and dirty parsing for the input of a codejam challenge 19:06 < skelterjohn> k, but the error would have been something like "really need a pointer, here" 19:06 < xyproto> ok, I have another conundrum. This line: mappings := map[string]string { "IMAGE" : "/usr/bin/eog" } 19:06 < xyproto> gives me: my-open.go:46: invalid identifier character 0xa0 19:06 < aiju> what the fuck 19:06 < nsf> '?' definitely doesn't work for 'where is in memory aka address of', '?' is more like 'wtf?' 19:06 < nsf> lol 19:07 < aiju> nsf: ??? should be used to throw an exception 19:07 < skelterjohn> d\\\ 19:07 < skelterjohn> lol 19:07 < nsf> aiju: indeed 19:07 < aiju> or have all functions end in ???, PROFIT 19:07 < nsf> :) 19:07 < aiju> though this works better in prolog 19:07 < aiju> foo(X) :- bar(X), ???, PROFIT. 19:08 < skelterjohn> ¿File not found? 19:08 < nsf> aiju: have you tried lolcode? 19:08 < aiju> nsf: not in practice 19:08 < nsf> :D 19:08 < nsf> but it sounds like you're familiar with it :D 19:08 < skelterjohn> i like ¿? exceptions 19:08 < aiju> yeah, heard about it 19:08 < aiju> skelterjohn: those are spanish villages to me (if that saying exists in english as well) 19:08 < skelterjohn> nope 19:09 < TheSeeker> shouldn't exceptions be: ¡! ? 19:09 < skelterjohn> no idea what you mean 19:09 < aiju> german for "i have no clue what you're talking about" 19:09 < skelterjohn> ah 19:09 < skelterjohn> "it's greek to me" 19:09 < skelterjohn> that's the english version 19:09 < aiju> oic 19:09 < skelterjohn> in spanish,they put ¿ at the beginning of questions i think 19:09 < aiju> but that ruins the pun ;) 19:09 < aiju> yeah 19:09 < skelterjohn> so i thought you were referring to that 19:09 < skelterjohn> ah 19:09 < skelterjohn> you were indeed 19:10 < skelterjohn> but when you say "that's greek to me" you get to make puns when someone shows you advanced math equations 19:10 < aiju> hahahahahahahahaha 19:10 < aiju> awesome 19:11 < xyproto> x := map[string]string { "a" : "b" } 19:11 < xyproto> if I move the } one line down, I get several errors, why? 19:11 < skelterjohn> oh 19:11 < skelterjohn> end the line with a comma 19:11 < aiju> xyproto: "a" : "b", 19:11 < aiju> automatic semicolon insertion 19:11 < skelterjohn> it's the semicolon insertion rule 19:11 < xyproto> oh, ok, thanks 19:12 < aiju> causes more trouble than those semicolons ever caused blah 19:12 < skelterjohn> still feel like they should have made \n a token 19:12 < skelterjohn> and been done with it 19:12 < aiju> a grammar with '\n' all over the place is INSANE 19:12 < aiju> because it needs to be ignored at some places, but not at others 19:13 < aiju> the current version is the better one, really 19:13 < skelterjohn> as long as you know when it's messing up it's fine 19:13 < aiju> that's an excuse for anything 19:13 < aiju> but yeah, it's bearable 19:13 < skelterjohn> just need better error messages 19:14 < xyproto> What I find strange is that "," usually means "but, wait, there's more!", but in {} it means "ok, done with this line" 19:14 < skelterjohn> or have the compile error to show the inserted semicolon 19:14 < aiju> xyproto: languages which DISALLOW trailing , are MUCH worse 19:14 < aiju> like javascript 19:14 < skelterjohn> terminators > separators 19:15 < xyproto> aiju: true, but still. It could have been ";" or "." instead of "," 19:15 < aiju> nah 19:15 < xyproto> ok, not . 19:15 < aiju> bikeshed after all 19:15 < xyproto> oh well 19:15 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15 < aiju> "this bikeshed has already been painted and the painter is gone" (Pike on Go syntax) ;) 19:16 -!- pingveno [~pingveno@c-98-246-133-8.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:16 < xyproto> fair enough 19:17 < nsf> btw, I think ':' is stpid in maps 19:17 < nsf> and ruby's '=>' is even worse 19:18 < nsf> what's wrong with '='? 19:18 < aiju> = implies equality 19:18 < aiju> "foo" = "bar" yuck 19:18 < aiju> : is fine 19:18 < skelterjohn> => is implication in logic speak 19:18 < aiju> ["foo"] "bar" is also acceptable 19:18 < nsf> in programming languages it's assignment 19:18 < nsf> everyone knows it 19:18 < nsf> lua uses '=' for maps 19:19 < nsf> I guess we think in different ways 19:20 < skelterjohn> funny error: the code i'm executing is fmt.Printf("'%v' %d %v\n", t1, len(t1), t1=="VERSION") 19:20 < skelterjohn> it prints out: 'VERSION' 107 false 19:20 < skelterjohn> how on earth does that happen 19:20 < nsf> skelterjohn: lol 19:21 < nsf> strings in Go are not null terminated 19:21 < KBme> heh 19:21 < nsf> but %v prints until \0 I believe 19:21 < skelterjohn> sure, but i'm not using C 19:21 < KBme> but == 19:21 < aiju> some terminals don't display null characters 19:21 < aiju> that is, they don't display them at all 19:21 < aiju> no blanks or anything 19:21 < KBme> oh == is false 19:21 < KBme> right 19:21 < skelterjohn> wonder how a null got in there 19:21 < aiju> try |hexdump -C 19:22 < skelterjohn> oh 19:22 < skelterjohn> no, figured it out 19:22 < skelterjohn> using a bytes.NewBuffer(make([]byte,100)) to start it up 19:22 < skelterjohn> and VERSION has 7 chars 19:22 < skelterjohn> so not sure why it's screwing up exactly, but i can fix it 19:23 < nsf> I know why 19:23 < nsf> because make([]byte, 100) has len == 100 19:23 < nsf> you need: make([]byte, 0, 100) 19:23 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-248-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23 < aiju> w00t 19:23 < nsf> make([]byte, 100) also is full of zeros 19:23 < skelterjohn> just giving it a []byte{} 19:23 < aiju> my assembler can assemble a euclid algorithm in PDP-11 assembl 19:23 < aiju> +y 19:24 < nsf> skelterjohn: you actually don't need to call NewBuffer at all 19:24 < nsf> just use var b bytes.Buffer 19:24 < nsf> it's zero initialized by default 19:24 < nsf> and you can write to it 19:24 < skelterjohn> ah 19:24 < skelterjohn> fun 19:25 < aiju> i recently heard an OO guy saying "nobody needs inheritance" 19:25 < nsf> aiju: it's true 19:25 < aiju> yeah 19:25 < aiju> but most OO guys don't realize that 19:25 < skelterjohn> ack - no i want a pointer to the buffer 19:25 < nsf> well, in popular programming languages inheritance is a weird way of overriding data in a vtable 19:25 < nsf> there are better ways 19:26 < nsf> in Go for example vtables are being created on the fly 19:26 < nsf> and structs use compositing features only 19:26 < xyproto> thanks for your help guys, talk to you :) *afk* 19:26 < nsf> very nice approach 19:27 < nsf> aiju: even OO guys start to realize, that: compositing > inheritance 19:27 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 19:27 < aiju> or, according to this LISP guy, macro systems > inheritance, hahahaha 19:27 < nsf> at least some of them 19:27 < aiju> i'm reading this LISP book and i have no clue whether the author is serious 19:28 < nsf> I think LISP sucks and it's beautiful 19:28 < nsf> :) 19:28 < jbooth1> haha 19:28 < aiju> http://letoverlambda.com/ that one 19:28 < aiju> there are several places where it says it's not meant 100% serious 19:28 < aiju> Starting with the fundamentals, it describes the most advanced features of the most advanced language: COMMON LISP. 19:28 < nsf> something that sucks and is beautiful.. hm.. I understand lisp programmers now 19:29 < aiju> and he bashes C and Scheme all the time, it's hilarious to read 19:29 < skelterjohn> nsf: programmer porn? 19:29 < nsf> skelterjohn: :D 19:29 < aiju> damn, i need network-transparent copy&paste 19:29 < nsf> I'm just playin' with words and meanings 19:29 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:30 < nsf> aiju: the problem with lisp 19:30 < nsf> that it's not a language 19:30 < nsf> it's a textual form of an AST tree 19:30 < aiju> not quite 19:30 < aiju> there is ' and #' and what not 19:30 < nsf> it is conceptually beautiful 19:30 < nsf> but.. 19:30 < aiju> http://pastebin.com/fjrpJAii pdp-11 for my "universal assembler" 19:31 < nsf> it's pain to do a refactoring in lisp 19:31 < nsf> really cool language should combine conceptual beauty and editor friendliness 19:31 < KBme> you don't need to, refactoring is evil 19:32 < KBme> you rewrite from scratch 19:32 < KBme> real men rewrite it :D 19:32 < nsf> KBme: most of the code life cycle is refactoring 19:32 < aiju> a good language should be editable with ed :P 19:32 < nsf> and editting 19:32 < aiju> KBme: real men don't rewrite code, they just hack more stuff into it 19:32 < nsf> well, actually reading the code is on the first place 19:32 < aiju> preferably they hack the binary, who needs the source? 19:32 < nsf> then editting/changing existing code 19:32 < nsf> and then writing 19:32 * TheSeeker misses QBasic >_> 19:32 < aiju> hahahhaa 19:32 * aiju doesn't 19:33 < KBme> aiju: chuck norris burns his code directly to the cpu/memory 19:33 < nsf> oops 19:33 < nsf> there is no such word as editting 19:33 * aiju misses front panels 19:33 < nsf> editing* :) 19:33 < aiju> i'm way too young to have ever seen a front panel outside a museum, it's probably from a previous life 19:34 < nsf> KBme: real programmers use butterflies 19:34 < aiju> real programmers use TECO 19:34 < aiju> that's more difficult than butterflies 19:35 < KBme> heheh 19:35 < nsf> and damn, Go is really good 19:35 < nsf> I'm reviewing it's syntax/semantics right now 19:35 < nsf> there is something really good in it 19:36 < nsf> :P 19:36 < nsf> even though GC sucks, etc. 19:36 < KBme> Unlike regular expressions, however, the language was imperative (though some versions had an 'or' operator in string search). 19:36 < KBme> heheheh 19:36 < aiju> TECO is a frightening beast 19:36 < KBme> and the developer's name is murphy 19:37 < aiju> http://letoverlambda.com/references.lisp this just proves my prejudice that LISP programmers write love letters in LISP 19:37 < KBme> nsf: yeah, you god some omprovements with latest gc updates no? 19:37 < KBme> got* 19:37 < nsf> KBme: of course 19:37 < nsf> but still GC sucks 19:37 < nsf> :D 19:37 < KBme> heh 19:37 < aiju> KBme: TECO is older than interactive computing 19:37 < KBme> aiju: yea 19:38 < aiju> @^UB#@S/{^EQQ,/#@^UC#@S/,^EQQ}/@-1S/{/#@^UR#.U1ZJQZ\^SC.,.+-^SXQ-^SDQ1J#@^U9/[]-+<>.,/<@:-FD/^N^EG9/;>J30000<0@I/ />ZJZUL30000J0U10U20U30U60U7@^U4/[]/@^U5#<@:S/^EG4/U7Q7;-AU3(Q3-91)"=%1|Q1"=.U6ZJ@i/{/Q2\@i/,/Q6\@i/}/Q6J0;'-1%1' >#<@:S/[/UT.U210^T13^TQT;QT"NM5Q2J'>0UP30000J.US.UI<(0A-43)"=QPJ0AUTDQT+1@I//QIJ@O/end/'(0A-45)"=QPJ0AUTDQT-1@I// 19:38 < aiju> QIJ@O/end/'(0A-0)"=QP-1UP@O/end/'(0A-62)"=QP+1UP@O/end/'(0A(-46)"=-.+QPA^T(-.+QPA-10)"=13^T'@O/end/'(0A-44)"=^TUT 8^TQPJDQT@I//QIJ@O/end/'(0A-91)"=-.+QPA"=QI+1UZQLJMRMB\-1J.UI'@O/end/'(0A-93)"=-.+QPA"NQI+1UZQLJMRMC\-1J.UI'@O/en d/'!end!QI+1UI(.-Z)"=.=@^a/END/^c^c'C> 19:38 < aiju> why doesn't Go look like that? 19:38 < KBme> //kick aiju 19:38 < aiju> haha 19:38 < jokoon> what is that ? 19:38 < nsf> KBme: I don't think that asking a machine to do everything for you is the end goal, philosophically 19:38 < TheSeeker> GC will suck less when it can periodically release some memory back to the OS ... 19:38 < aiju> jokoon: TECO input 19:38 < jokoon> what's it for ? 19:39 < KBme> nsf: well, as we can see most programmers need a nanny 19:39 < nsf> the idea is - human evolution, and GC is like a bad answer to that 19:39 < KBme> gc is pretty good for that 19:39 < nsf> KBme: they should die :) 19:39 < KBme> heh, right 19:39 < aiju> Ken called GC a mistake ;P 19:39 < nsf> natural selection, etc. 19:39 < TheSeeker> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_Editor_and_Corrector 19:39 < nsf> aiju: is he? where? 19:39 < nsf> and what's more important 19:39 < nsf> when? :) 19:39 < aiju> nsf: Coders at Work, ~2009 19:39 < jokoon> so the gc can be totally disabled ? 19:39 < nsf> interesting 19:39 < aiju> jokoon: not in Go 19:39 < nsf> so it was after Go 19:40 < KBme> lol 19:40 < aiju> nsf: Go is not mentioned in the interview, i suspect it has been earlier 19:40 < KBme> that's what i call off to a good start 19:40 < nsf> aiju: well, ken won't say that Go sucks because it has GC 19:40 < nsf> it's still a good language as I've said 19:40 < aiju> actually, he said, GC is a mistake for "big things" 19:40 < skelterjohn> at the moment, you can't create chans and maps without using the gc, so you can't totally disable it 19:40 < aiju> compilers and operating systems 19:40 < nsf> anyways, I think it's a conceptual mistake 19:41 < nsf> but practical advantage 19:41 < nsf> :) 19:41 < skelterjohn> it would be neat if you could have a custom allocator 19:41 < skelterjohn> for make to use 19:41 < aiju> i don't mind gc too much 19:41 < aiju> skelterjohn: many innocent-looking things in Go cause memory allocation 19:41 < aiju> it's not "just don't use malloc" as in C 19:42 < skelterjohn> right 19:42 < skelterjohn> this would be tricky 19:42 < skelterjohn> i'm not saying they should do it 19:42 < skelterjohn> just that it would be neat 19:42 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 19:42 < aiju> allowing "GC-free" Go would require to change a lot of the language semantics 19:42 < nsf> and what's more important 19:42 < aiju> to make memory allocation more explicit 19:42 < skelterjohn> having go be GC'd lets us have memory safe closures without trouble 19:42 < nsf> GC-free Go requires new library 19:42 < nsf> with different interface 19:43 < nsf> things like os.Error will have Free method or something 19:43 < jumzi> hmm... well gc for a kernel or compilers might be tricky tbh :P, not that i've tried 19:43 < aiju> idk about compilers 19:43 < aiju> they don't need any real time response or anything 19:44 < nsf> aiju: they need to be as fast as possible 19:44 < jumzi> nah 19:44 < aiju> hahahahahahaha 19:44 < aiju> look at g++ 19:44 < skelterjohn> nsf: it can just free all the memory at the end :) 19:44 < jumzi> Make; sleep... godnight 19:44 < nsf> aiju: exactly 19:44 -!- tav_ [~tav@92.7.131.230] has joined #go-nuts 19:44 < nsf> it's terribly slow 19:44 < nsf> and g++ has a GC, btw 19:45 < jumzi> ...Now to start debugging 19:45 < aiju> i don't think it'd be much faster without 19:45 < nsf> and it's memory hungry 19:45 < nsf> aiju: take a look at clang 19:45 < nsf> it would be exactly like that 19:45 < aiju> is clang gc-free? 19:45 < nsf> yes 19:45 < nsf> it's in C++ 19:46 < aiju> well... you can't just compare things like that 19:46 < zozoR> oh lords, i didnt know you had to create handles for image and js requests too D: 19:46 < nsf> trying to add a GC to C++ is like a hell 19:46 < zozoR> when creating go server 19:46 < aiju> nsf: true 19:46 < nsf> aiju: but you're right 19:46 < nsf> it's not that much faster 19:46 < nsf> 2x max 19:46 < nsf> in most cases a much smaller number 19:46 < nsf> like 1.1x or something 19:46 < skelterjohn> zozoR: you don't with web.go - it will look for static files 19:47 < nsf> but it's much better regarding memory consumption 19:47 < zozoR> i does not like web.go 19:47 -!- tav [~tav@92.7.95.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47 < skelterjohn> well, write a handler for static files 19:47 < zozoR> :) 19:47 < skelterjohn> what don't you like about web.go? 19:47 < nsf> who needs web.go and http 19:47 < nsf> use lighttpd 19:48 < nsf> and fastcgi go app 19:48 < aiju> i've heard gc'd programs can even be faster due to less unnecessary copies 19:48 < nsf> aiju: theory... 19:48 < nsf> actually they say it differently 19:49 < nsf> average C malloc/free code is _sometimes_ slower than the good GC 19:49 < nsf> :) 19:49 < nsf> you see there is a lot of different words 19:49 < aiju> it's always difficult to tell Java propaganda from actually meaningful facts 19:49 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:49 < TheSeeker> so ... when do we get a fully Go OS? 19:49 < nsf> 'average', 'malloc/free, wtf?', 'sometimes?', 'good GC, wtf?' 19:49 < nsf> etc. 19:50 < aiju> TheSeeker: i started one, but the language is too unstable currently 19:50 -!- jokoon [~zonax@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:50 < TheSeeker> understandable. 19:50 < aiju> it would get down to rewrites every two to four weeks, which is *really* annoying 19:51 < nsf> aiju: indeed 19:51 < nsf> I'm maintaining two Go projects 19:51 < nsf> and it's a bit annoying 19:51 < aiju> nsf: do your projects need thousands of hacks in the runtime? 19:51 < nsf> small, but nasty changes every two weeks or so 19:51 < aiju> consider that :P 19:51 < nsf> aiju: no :) 19:51 < aiju> that's what a kernel needs 19:51 < nsf> but still.. 19:52 < jnwhiteh> you could write an academic/research kernel that doesn't need as many hacks, surely? 19:52 < nsf> well, one of my projects is gocode and it contains partial semantic analyzer for Go 19:52 < nsf> language changes hit hard 19:52 < nsf> :) 19:52 < aiju> jnwhiteh: the runtime does not include support for things like interrupts 19:52 < jnwhiteh> ah well, there is that =) 19:52 < aiju> and other things 19:52 < jnwhiteh> makes complete sense 19:53 -!- Eridius [~kevin@unaffiliated/eridius] has joined #go-nuts 20:00 -!- jokoon [~zonax@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:02 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-eacae555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 20:06 < skelterjohn> i hate writing java code, now 20:06 < skelterjohn> so much effort to do simple things 20:08 < homa_rano> I always hated java in that I couldn't just write a function 20:08 < homa_rano> there has to be a class behind everything 20:08 < nsf> I haven't written a single java class/function so far and I'm proud of that 20:08 < nsf> :D 20:09 < nsf> can't say the same about C# though 20:11 < nsf> lol, 3 rays of hatred have been successfully sent to Java 20:12 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:17 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.23.127.179] has joined #go-nuts 20:18 -!- JusticeFries [~JusticeFr@173-8-247-218-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:22 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has joined #go-nuts 20:25 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CADA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 20:30 -!- DerHorst [~Horst@e176100079.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, java is evil. :( 20:32 < skelterjohn> i used to be all about java 20:32 < skelterjohn> my undergrad was a java school 20:33 * TheSeeker is reminded that he wanted to make a Freenet clone in Go .. Freenet being a java application x_x 20:33 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, hah. :D I was happy about GWT. And then I did ruby. And now I'm back to java :( 20:33 < skelterjohn> what is GWT 20:33 < TheSeeker> google web toolkit 20:33 < dfr|work> skelterjohn, Google web Toolkit. Java -> JS compiler... plus else 20:33 < skelterjohn> ah 20:33 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@186.215.0.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34 < TheSeeker> hmm, how to implement Just Fast Keying in Go ... 20:34 -!- lmoura [~lauromour@186.215.206.130] has joined #go-nuts 21:00 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:01 -!- matti__ [~mumboww@c-24-6-22-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: matti__] 21:02 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 21:05 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has joined #go-nuts 21:06 -!- coldturnip1 [~COLDTURNI@111-250-11-41.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:08 -!- coldturnip [~COLDTURNI@111-250-25-45.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:09 -!- qjcg [~qjcg@208.88.110.46] has left #go-nuts [] 21:10 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has quit [Quit: plainhao] 21:17 -!- jokoon [~zonax@feu30-1-82-242-58-229.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17 -!- tvw [~tv@e176004028.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 21:24 -!- mbone [~mbone2@216-80-120-74.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25 -!- prip [~foo@host129-120-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26 * TheSeeker is trying to use goinstall again, with gowin32-2011-02-24 21:28 -!- mbone [~mbone2@216-80-120-74.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:28 < TheSeeker> initially, I'd get redefinition errors for 'strtod' and 'struct timespec'. 21:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/2l6oLp by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt: make %#p suppress leading 0x 21:29 < TheSeeker> I added an #undef in front of the first, and commented out the second. now I get this: http://dark-code.bulix.org/wu7qyp-79479 21:29 < TheSeeker> Any ideas at all? 21:29 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35 -!- mattn_jp [~mattn@112-68-83-220f1.hyg1.eonet.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:37 -!- prip [~foo@host168-126-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 21:38 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56346ed3.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.61.162.99] has joined #go-nuts 21:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/E0p3OZ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt: delete debugging print that crept in to test. 21:47 -!- tobier_ [~tobier@c-1e9de055.712-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 21:48 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-bcqyzomdkscfdyzs] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48 -!- tobier [~tobier@c-1e9de055.712-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54 -!- dfr|work [~dfr|work@nat/google/x-kulzlxzsmkupjxym] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54 < skelterjohn> this one's for Namegduf, aiju and nsf: http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_frm/thread/98a5f2528553ea6e 21:55 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-hmwtdrubslogpvfu] has joined #go-nuts 21:55 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 21:56 < aiju> hahahahaha 21:56 < aiju> suggestions like this should lead to shitstorms of insults 21:56 < aiju> we should take inspiration from /b/ 21:57 -!- jeng [~jeng@74.194.1.28] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]] 22:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/IrheSw by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- docs: make "runtime" a word only as a name for the package. 22:11 -!- photron [~photron@port-92-201-11-114.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-eacae555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YJ3z3E by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: expose Client's Transport 22:21 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:27 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED4B890.cm-7-5c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:29 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.78.144] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 22:29 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:30 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 22:34 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42 -!- davvid [~davvid@208-106-56-2.static.dsltransport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:43 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.176.240.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 22:48 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 22:50 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:54 -!- imsplitbit [~imsplitbi@64.39.4.132] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:56 -!- mbone [~mbone2@216-80-120-74.mart-bsr1.chi-mart.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01 -!- ymasory_ [~ymasory@c-76-99-55-224.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:03 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:05 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.33.100] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 23:10 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.61.162.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16 -!- jbooth1 [~jay@209.249.216.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18 < evildho> iant: heh. 23:18 < evildho> "p" (t) is in one case compiling to (%eax) grr. 23:21 < plexdev> http://is.gd/GSEHAK by [David Symonds] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: give ParseHTTPVersion a real example. 23:28 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 23:32 < evildho> nope, i'm retarded. as usual. 23:32 < evildho> haha 23:33 <@adg> aiju: that wouldn't be very helpful, though. i think rob's response was exactly on point 23:40 -!- vice_virtue [~vice@202.124.88.109] has joined #go-nuts 23:42 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43 -!- [Pete_27] [~noname@110-174-103-31.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #go-nuts 23:43 -!- rl [~rbl@84-74-142-37.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:52 -!- rl [~rbl@84-74-142-37.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Wed Mar 02 00:00:34 2011