--- Log opened Fri Mar 18 00:00:55 2011 00:01 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-67-168-136-89.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: shakesoda] 00:07 -!- ddoman [~root@96.53.63.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@29.sub-75-210-236.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.156.136] has joined #go-nuts 00:34 < steven> i have a plan. 00:34 < steven> i think its gonna be AWESOME. 00:34 < KirkMcDonald> Uh oh. 00:34 < steven> should i post my proposal on the mailing list? 00:34 < steven> undoubtedly some will love it and some will hate it 00:35 < steven> maybe i should just keep it to myself until im done? 00:36 -!- nettok_ [~quassel@200.119.188.207] has joined #go-nuts 00:37 < skelterjohn> it's tough to answer that question 00:37 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.156.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:37 < skelterjohn> if it's a plan about how you're going to buy lunch tomorrow 00:37 < skelterjohn> i'd suggest, in a friendly way, to keep it to yourself 00:38 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:39 < steven> hehe 00:39 < steven> its a plan for a go web framework 00:39 < steven> one thats different than the rest. 00:39 < steven> one thats more full 00:39 < kamaji> That should be the motto of all web frameworks 00:39 < steven> one thats AWESOME 00:40 < steven> right on kamaji 00:40 < steven> see he knows what im talkin bout 00:40 < kamaji> hurry up and make it so I can play with it~ 00:42 < exch> steven: probably best to just get started yourself. Get some of the details sorted out and make sure it wont fall apart due to some big unforseen issue. Then you can always publish it and get people involved 00:44 < skelterjohn> i'm playing hunt-the-wumpus 00:46 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-67-168-136-89.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 00:53 < exch> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/MFewHGTgdAw 00:58 < skelterjohn> whoah, how do you make google groups look like that? 00:58 < exch> I wa spresented with a link to do so a long time ago 00:59 < exch> probably in your groups settings somewhere 01:07 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@183.47.228.38] has joined #go-nuts 01:11 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 01:28 -!- tsung_ [~jon@112.104.53.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28 -!- tsung [~jon@112.104.53.151] has joined #go-nuts 01:33 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 01:59 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has left #go-nuts [] 02:05 -!- statik_ [u986@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xilqmfwksjtoqimk] has joined #go-nuts 02:10 -!- statik [u986@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xilqmfwksjtoqimk] has quit [Changing host] 02:10 -!- statik [u986@canonical/launchpad/statik] has joined #go-nuts 02:28 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C54B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 02:55 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c74d0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: EXEC_over.METHOD_SUBLIMATION] 03:07 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C54B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.13] has joined #go-nuts 03:33 -!- nettok_ [~quassel@200.119.188.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:43 -!- niemeyer_away [~niemeyer@201-66-179-18.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:49 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:58 -!- gogogrrl [~max@p5DE8E0C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:00 -!- zozoR [~Morten@563476e6.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 04:01 -!- gogogrrl_ [~max@p5DE8D63E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:07 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 04:07 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 04:14 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:32 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 04:35 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:36 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has joined #go-nuts 04:54 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has joined #go-nuts 04:55 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has left #go-nuts [] 04:55 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05 -!- mikespook1 [~mikespook@183.47.231.20] has joined #go-nuts 05:05 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-76-102-205-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:05 -!- mikespook [~mikespook@183.47.228.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:27 -!- mikespook1 [~mikespook@183.47.231.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:32 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 05:35 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.100.168.186] has joined #go-nuts 05:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ySA2oW by [Yasuhiro Matsumoto] in go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: fix path problem for windows. 05:56 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:56 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@114.250.73.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:13 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.13] has joined #go-nuts 06:25 -!- inktri [~rudy@ip68-101-103-129.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:25 -!- inktri [~rudy@ip68-101-103-129.oc.oc.cox.net] has left #go-nuts [] 06:33 -!- dfc [~dfc@sydfibre2.atlassian.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 06:36 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 06:39 -!- enferex [~enferex@users.757.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:46 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:47 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:48 < nsf> adg: oh! you've created the golang-announce ML, very nice! thanks for that 06:53 -!- pi_ [pii@rasm.se] has joined #go-nuts 06:55 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has joined #go-nuts 06:58 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:59 -!- enferex [~enferex@users.757.org] has joined #go-nuts 07:02 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:07 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13 -!- neshaug [~oyvind@213.239.108.5] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:14 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has joined #go-nuts 07:20 -!- neshaug [~oyvind@213.239.108.5] has joined #go-nuts 07:20 -!- zozoR [~Morten@563476e6.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.100.168.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:30 -!- GoBIR [~gobir@c-24-130-224-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:31 -!- espeed [~espeed@63.246.231.57] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:32 -!- Eko [~eko@c-24-130-224-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:33 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED43A0B.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 07:38 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 07:42 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 07:58 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED43A0B.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:00 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:03 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 08:04 -!- Fish [~Fish@exo3753.pck.nerim.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:05 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 08:05 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has joined #go-nuts 08:05 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.137.1] has joined #go-nuts 08:05 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-67-168-136-89.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: shakesoda] 08:05 -!- unofficialmvp [~dev@94-62-164-227.b.ipv4ilink.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:06 -!- unofficialmvp [~dev@94-62-164-227.b.ipv4ilink.net] has left #go-nuts [] 08:08 -!- dfc [~dfc@124-169-149-145.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 08:09 -!- nixness [~dsc@78.100.252.72] has joined #go-nuts 08:11 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.137.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED42E59.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 08:18 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.66.20] has joined #go-nuts 08:29 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 08:34 -!- zeroXten_ [~zeroXten@0x10.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:34 -!- zeroXten [~zeroXten@0x10.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 08:36 -!- Eko [~eko@c-24-130-224-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 08:42 -!- dfc [~dfc@124-169-149-145.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: dfc] 09:17 -!- rbraley [~rbraley@114.250.73.141] has joined #go-nuts 09:20 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:24 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.17.88] has joined #go-nuts 09:26 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28 -!- g0bl1n [~g0blin@unaffiliated/g0bl1n] has joined #go-nuts 09:37 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has joined #go-nuts 09:47 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.16.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:48 -!- dfc [~dfc@124-169-149-145.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 10:01 -!- alkavan_ [~alkavan@IGLD-84-229-168-230.inter.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02 -!- alkavan_ [~alkavan@IGLD-84-229-168-230.inter.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 10:03 -!- neshaug [~oyvind@213.239.108.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03 -!- neshaug [~oyvind@213.239.108.5] has joined #go-nuts 10:05 -!- rtharper [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 10:15 -!- czr_ [czr@nexus.iohazard.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16 -!- saturnfive [~saturnfiv@210.74.155.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19 -!- alkavan_ [~alkavan@IGLD-84-229-168-230.inter.net.il] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19 -!- alkavan_ [~alkavan@IGLD-84-229-168-230.inter.net.il] has joined #go-nuts 10:52 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53 -!- unofficialmvp [~dev@94-62-164-227.b.ipv4ilink.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:53 -!- unofficialmvp [~dev@94-62-164-227.b.ipv4ilink.net] has left #go-nuts [] 10:54 < KBme> hmm interestingly enough goinstall doesn't seem to make clean, which seems to cause problems when updating the installation 10:54 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-66-179-18.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 10:55 < KBme> i always have to remove the pkg/linux_arch/... files for the package and the object files in the project directory src/pkg/... 11:02 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.17.88] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 11:03 < dfc> KBme: goinstall -clean 11:03 < dfc> there are lots of useful options for goinstall 11:03 < dfc> i prefer 11:03 < dfc> goinstall -u -v -clean 11:03 < dfc> after every ~/go/src/make.bash 11:03 < KBme> ah 11:04 < KBme> yeah, i didn't know about that, thanks 11:09 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 11:10 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@host109-153-168-137.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 11:10 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@host109-153-168-137.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:10 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has joined #go-nuts 11:16 -!- rtharper [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 11:24 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.61.162.99] has joined #go-nuts 11:38 < xyproto> I found a simple gtk calculator at http://google-go-lang.blogspot.com/ 11:38 < xyproto> However, it uses "float" as a type 11:38 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp26.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has joined #go-nuts 11:38 < kamaji> Should I be passing functions by reference or value...? 11:39 < xyproto> But, I can't find "float" in the go langauge specification 11:39 < xyproto> Is "float" a valid type? 11:39 < jnwhiteh> no, float32 and float64 are 11:39 < xyproto> jnwhiteh: ok, thank you 11:43 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.95.146] has joined #go-nuts 11:44 -!- g0bl1n [~g0blin@unaffiliated/g0bl1n] has quit [Quit: g0bl1n] 11:44 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.95.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has joined #go-nuts 11:46 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.66.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.67.7] has joined #go-nuts 12:00 -!- rtharper [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 12:21 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:22 -!- dfc [~dfc@124-169-149-145.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: dfc] 12:23 -!- boscop [~boscop@f055001210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #go-nuts 12:29 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:32 * skelterjohn has hunted the wumpus 12:38 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp26.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:59 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:06 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18 -!- go-irc-ch [~go-irc-ch@2001:470:1f13:3b4:20a:e4ff:fe49:b68c] has joined #go-nuts 13:21 -!- zozoR [~Morten@563476e6.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 13:25 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc8-reig4-2-0-cust24.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:34 -!- nighty__ [~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:39 -!- skejoe [~skejoe@188.114.142.162] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:41 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.107.6] has joined #go-nuts 13:41 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 13:44 -!- waqas [~waqas@jaim.at] has joined #go-nuts 13:48 -!- jeng [~jeng@74.194.1.28] has joined #go-nuts 13:48 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 13:51 < waqas> Is there any concept of a custom object being iterable in Go? 13:51 < waqas> (I think the answer is no, but just making sure) 13:55 <+iant> waqas: you can write an Iter method which returns a channel, and write elements to the channel; then the caller can use "for v := range object.Iter()" 13:55 <+iant> other than that, no 13:57 < waqas> iant: I'm guessing that wouldn't be very performant? 13:57 <+iant> it's not too bad, but it's certainly slower than using range over a slice 13:57 < waqas> Right, plain old for loops it is then. 14:04 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 14:08 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has joined #go-nuts 14:17 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 14:24 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 14:28 -!- Cromulent [~Cromulent@cpc8-reig4-2-0-cust24.6-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Cromulent] 14:28 < xyproto> I'm trying to make Go-OpenGL work. Go is recently updated, so is Go-SDL (which Go-OpenGL) and Go-OpenGL. Everything compiles great. But, there's a really strange thing: 14:28 < xyproto> gogears works great if I run "strace ./gogears", but segfaults if I just run "./gogears"! 14:28 < xyproto> (it's like glxgears, but for Go) 14:28 < xyproto> How can that be? 14:29 < exch> xyproto: I had similar problems with GLFW bindings. the program runs fine when started through gdb, but segfaults on its own 14:30 < xyproto> exch: glad to hear I'm not the only one, but isn't that exceptionally strange? 14:30 < exch> Something about duplicate symbols in a shared library 14:30 < xyproto> I get a lot of read(4, 0x3a8ace4, 4096) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable) 14:30 < exch> Someone else had the same issue and 'solved' it by removing custom nvidia drivers and replacing it with plain old libgl 14:31 < exch> Im still not sure where the problem is exactly 14:32 < xyproto> exch: I do have nvidia-drivers (I've tried running nouveau, the git-version, not long ago, but it didn't work out). 14:47 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:47 -!- Venom_X_ [~pjacobs@75.92.43.21] has joined #go-nuts 14:52 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:53 < steven> guys 14:54 < steven> isnt there a function somewhere in the stdlib that lets you read an entire string until eof, from an io.Reader? 14:54 < steven> i cnat find it, bugt i know ive seen it before 14:55 < waqas> ioutil.ReadAll? 14:55 < steven> ah yes. thanks. 14:55 < steven> waqas++ 14:55 < waqas> Indeed. 14:56 < steven> ive noticed something 14:56 < steven> this channel has the most mature, respectful, and intelligent members ive seen on all of freenode, more than any other language channel 14:56 < steven> thats awesome. 14:58 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.107.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:58 < xyproto> steven: +1 15:02 -!- g0bl1n [~g0blin@unaffiliated/g0bl1n] has joined #go-nuts 15:04 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:06 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 15:07 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-zjvirecnsnlamvfe] has joined #go-nuts 15:07 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 15:08 -!- jhawk28 [~jhawk28@user-387c58d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@78.112.41.178] has joined #go-nuts 15:15 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@78.112.41.178] has quit [Changing host] 15:15 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has joined #go-nuts 15:18 < xyproto> It would be great fun to rewrite the Linux kernel in Go. Is it doable? 15:18 < aiju> hahhahaha 15:18 < xyproto> :) 15:18 < aiju> it is theoretically possible to write an OS in Go 15:18 < aiju> but the language is too instable 15:18 < aiju> http://code.google.com/p/gofy/ a project i did 15:19 < nsf> I don't think it's a good idea 15:19 < niemeyer> :-) 15:19 < nsf> and why it would be great fun? 15:19 < nsf> OS code requires a lot of low level hack 15:19 < nsf> hacks* 15:19 < nsf> which are painful in Go 15:19 < nsf> like no void*, etc. 15:19 < aiju> it's not that bad 15:19 < xyproto> aiju: looks promising :) 15:20 < nsf> I think it will end up in the same place where OS written in C# are 15:20 < aiju> xyproto: well, it doesn't compile with current versions and i'm not going to do it further 15:20 < waqas> "Goals: To have lots of fun, and to piss off lots of people." - <3 15:20 < xyproto> nsf: great fun might be a slight exaggeration on my part, but still 15:20 < nsf> I just don't think that writing an OS is fun 15:21 < xyproto> aiju: I agree that making something solid with a constantly changing language is an extra challenge 15:21 < nsf> and there is at least one reason why 15:21 < nsf> 70% of OS's success is its drivers 15:21 < xyproto> nsf: I wrote an OS in assembly+C once. It was reasonably fun. 15:21 < xyproto> nsf: It couldn't do much, but still. 15:21 < nsf> a toy OS 15:21 < xyproto> yes 15:21 < nsf> it's like a toy programming language 15:21 < nsf> fun, but useless 15:21 < aiju> nsf: 50% drivers, 49% compatibility, 1% good design 15:21 < xyproto> or like "a hobby project"? (ref Linux) 15:21 < aiju> something along that ;P 15:22 < nsf> aiju: :D 15:22 < aiju> it used to be different 15:22 < xyproto> true 15:22 < nsf> xyproto: well, there should be a point 15:22 < nsf> when you realize 15:22 < nsf> it's not a hobby project anymore 15:22 < aiju> it's incredible UNIX got popular with no support for but one FS 15:23 < xyproto> nsf: I disagree. I think great things have been achived with just setting out with what could be perceived as a random or useless goal by some. People have different personality types. 15:23 < nsf> maybe 15:23 < nsf> but I think it's a waste of time 15:23 < xyproto> nsf: noted :) 15:23 < steven> the FS isnt what makes the OS 15:23 < aiju> most of life is a waste of time 15:23 < steven> the FS is just a detail :) 15:23 < nsf> I think a very great goal should be created (like to conquer all the world) 15:23 < nsf> and if at least 25% of it is delievered - great :) 15:24 < nsf> oh, no.. not philosophy again 15:24 < aiju> hhahaha 15:24 < xyproto> nsf: how realistic a goal turns out to be is incredibly hard to measure, in both positive and negative direction 15:24 < xyproto> ;) 15:24 * nsf is back to his C killer language 15:25 < xyproto> at least it isn't a conversation about which syntax is best ;) 15:25 < nsf> of course Go's syntax is the best 15:25 < nsf> :) 15:26 < waqas> I like the Go syntax and semantics quite a bit. Considering borrowing several parts for my programming language experiements. 15:27 -!- imsplitbit [~imsplitbi@64.39.4.132] has joined #go-nuts 15:27 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:28 < nsf> I'm very inspired by all these tiny things like: ':=', 'default break behaviour in switch case clause', 'no () around if condition statement and "for" clause', etc. 15:28 < nsf> and it's not like I've seen all these things and wuala, no.. I've written a couple thousands of Go code and it simply feels amazing 15:29 < waqas> I've not written a couple thousands of Go code yet. 15:30 < nsf> thousands of lines I mean :) 15:30 < xyproto> I also really like the syntax. 15:30 < nsf> well, it's the only measure of code, so.. 15:30 < aiju> mandatory braces around if gets more annoying the more thousands of lines you write 15:30 < nsf> 'iota' is amazing too 15:30 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 15:31 < xyproto> I miss some small things from Python, though. And writing math-stuff Haskell-style would be great. 15:31 < xyproto> But overall, my favorite language. 15:32 < nsf> well and here comes the flame war.. "nya nya, where is my feature" 15:32 < nsf> :) 15:32 < nsf> but I don't like to say what I like and don't like 15:32 < nsf> I'm just trying to create my vision of perfection 15:32 < xyproto> nsf: mind that you started the actuall conversation about syntax ;) 15:32 < xyproto> *actual 15:32 < nsf> not really 15:32 < xyproto> 16:28:21 nsf | of course Go's syntax is the best │ brett 15:33 < aiju> 16:34 < xyproto> I miss some small things from Python, though. And writing math-stuff Haskell-style would be great. 15:33 < nsf> "xyproto | at least it isn't a conversation about which syntax is best ;)" 15:33 < nsf> you've started it 15:33 < aiju> i remember math stuff in Haskell to be particularly terrible 15:33 < xyproto> nsf: that isn't a start! :D 15:33 < nsf> unintentionally 15:33 < xyproto> aiju: that was after 15:33 < nsf> but you should be aware of trolls you know 15:33 < xyproto> okok, vnm 15:33 < aiju> after what? 15:33 < xyproto> *nvm 15:33 < nsf> :) 15:34 < steven> guys, im havin trouble figurin out how to make a proper url when my query args (a single string, not a map) might contain invalid values, (ie containing spaces) 15:34 < xyproto> aiju: math stuff in Haskell is great, just pure expressions, without any dirty user input or output ;) 15:34 < aiju> yeah, but i remember entering formulas to be real pain 15:34 < aiju> what was it? weird operator hiarchy or something 15:35 < aiju> anyway, i dislike the "code, ???, program" way 15:35 < xyproto> I wish this could work: 15:35 < xyproto> var l []int = []int{2,3} 15:35 < xyproto> x, y := l 15:36 < nsf> uhm.. 15:36 < aiju> i don't see much value there 15:36 < nsf> maybe a tuple type? 15:36 < xyproto> something along those lines, at least. But it's just sugar 15:36 < nsf> yeah, virtual tuple type 15:36 < nsf> like: 15:36 < nsf> uhm.. no, nevermind :D 15:37 < nsf> no tuples today :D 15:37 < xyproto> :D 15:37 < nsf> btw, we're arguing about syntax 15:37 -!- waqas [~waqas@jaim.at] has left #go-nuts [] 15:37 < aiju> syntactic sugar causes cancer of the semicolon 15:37 < nsf> ah, one more neat Go feature: 15:38 < nsf> being able to write: func GetArea(x, y, w, h int) 15:38 < nsf> instead of: x int, y int, w int, h int 15:38 < aiju> you can do that in C too, using evil tricker 15:38 < nsf> uhm? 15:38 < aiju> GetArea(x, y, w, h) int x, y, w, h; :D 15:38 < nsf> I know that in old C it is possible 15:38 < nsf> yeah 15:38 < nsf> and compilers still support that crap 15:39 < aiju> actually, int is implicit 15:39 < nsf> because there is gnu software that uses it 15:39 < aiju> GetArea(x, y, w, h) { 15:39 < nsf> aiju: but still it leads to repetition 15:39 -!- ajdecon [~ajdecon@li207-111.members.linode.com] has joined #go-nuts 15:39 < aiju> well, eah 15:39 -!- g0bl1n [~g0blin@unaffiliated/g0bl1n] has left #go-nuts [] 15:39 < nsf> the point is to group similar args with the same type 15:39 < aiju> yeah yeah 15:40 < nsf> ok :) 15:40 < nsf> grouping type and repeating args instead is kind of.. wrong 15:41 < steven> i wanna port Linda to Go 15:41 < nsf> ah, one more awesome thing in Go 15:41 < nsf> multiple cases at once in one case clause 15:41 < steven> you can do that? 15:41 < aiju> sure, case 1, 2, 3: 15:41 < nsf> and arbitrary expressions in case clauses 15:41 < steven> nice. 15:41 < steven> yep. 15:41 < steven> i dig it. 15:42 < nsf> actually mutliple cases thing removes the need for 90% use of the "fallthrough" behaviour in C 15:42 < nsf> multiple* 15:42 < nsf> it's like very simple modification but right to the point 15:42 < aiju> but you can't do something like loop: switch(foo) { case 1: do { foo++ default: } while(bar); goto loop; } 15:43 < gmilleramilar> nsf: you're worth your weight in gold. I thought I knew the syntax pretty well, but I did not know that one. 15:43 < nsf> gmilleramilar: I wrote an autocompletion for Go, of course I know syntax well :D 15:43 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43 < gmilleramilar> oh I know your work. 15:44 < gmilleramilar> I've got my best no smile face on right now. 15:44 < nsf> hehe 15:46 < nsf> but of course there are things that I don't like about Go 15:46 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.225.32] has joined #go-nuts 15:46 < nsf> I still don't buy their definition of systems language, maybe it's the right thing for google work, but not for me 15:47 < aiju> systems language is a marketing term void of any meaning 15:47 < nsf> I guess, yeah 15:47 < nsf> every program is a system :) 15:47 < aiju> people use it for all kind ofs hit 15:48 < jnwhiteh> its easier to say what a non-systems language is =) 15:48 < jnwhiteh> and even that isn't straightforward 15:48 < aiju> yeah, Javascript 15:48 < nsf> :D 15:49 < nsf> lua 15:49 < nsf> php 15:49 < jnwhiteh> <insert dynamic scripting language with no notion of 'memory' here> 15:49 < nsf> exactly 15:49 < aiju> Javascript memory overhead is a factor of 10 or something 15:50 < nsf> and there are languages in the middle (and Go somewhere amongst them sadly), like java, C#, D 15:50 < jnwhiteh> aye 15:50 < nsf> and btw, it's ok, but I think there is no niche here as people think 15:51 < nsf> "connecting best from two worlds"... uhm.. no 15:51 < aiju> "connecting best of two worlds" is a good indicator of bullcrap 15:52 < exch> moderate at both sides, really good at none of them 15:52 < aiju> "a multifunction device can do anything, but nothing well" 15:53 < exch> Not a very Unix-y way of doing things :p 15:53 < nsf> Go has a lot of nice ideas in it, but two of them particularly suck (my personal strong opinion): goroutines/channels and garbage collector 15:54 < aiju> channels suck? :D 15:54 < aiju> channels are fucking best :D 15:54 < nsf> and btw, garbage collector exists primarly because of goroutines/channels 15:54 < nsf> primarily* 15:54 < jnwhiteh> yeah I'm interested in why you think goroutines and channels suck 15:54 < exch> goroutines and channels are fine imho 15:54 < jnwhiteh> its the one thing they got right, in my opinion. 15:54 < nsf> :) 15:54 < jnwhiteh> well, that's harsh.. not the one thing 15:54 < jnwhiteh> but the most important =) 15:54 < nsf> I think it's a unrealistic abstraction 15:55 < nsf> over natural OS processes 15:55 < nsf> and that's why it's bad 15:55 < jnwhiteh> tell that to Erlang? 15:55 < jnwhiteh> channels and goroutines aren't an abstraction of processes and threads 15:55 < jnwhiteh> that's precisely the point 15:55 < jnwhiteh> they're completely different, intentionally 15:56 < nsf> it is a separate abstraction which hides OS details 15:56 < nsf> basically it's like GC 15:56 < nsf> GC hides the memory management detail from you 15:56 < jnwhiteh> what OS details does it hide, other than blocking system calls? 15:56 < nsf> and here processes flow gets hidden 15:57 < nsf> you can't create an app which utilizes multiple threads 15:57 < nsf> the way you want it 15:57 < jnwhiteh> so make a pthreads library for Go =) 15:57 < nsf> it's only up to Go's runtime to decide 15:57 < jnwhiteh> no 15:57 < nsf> it won't work in Go 15:57 < jnwhiteh> they're different 15:58 < jnwhiteh> the conventional OS process/threading model is broken, that's been shown time and time again 15:58 < nsf> then we need a new OS 15:58 < jnwhiteh> good luck with that =) 15:58 < nsf> not a language :) 15:58 < Namegduf> With blackjack, and hookers 15:58 < jnwhiteh> why do you need os threads? 15:58 < nsf> well, you see Go devs have tried new OS 15:58 < skelterjohn> a go based os would be sweet 15:59 < jnwhiteh> what do you want to do with them? 15:59 < nsf> uhm, first of all, using threads I can control CPU affinity, priorities, etc. 15:59 < nsf> yes, these are OS details 15:59 < nsf> but sometimes important ones 15:59 < jnwhiteh> so what you want is actually scheduler activations 16:00 < jnwhiteh> but yuo don't have them, because Solaris and NetBSD have removed them, in favour of threads 16:00 < nsf> preemtive scheduler would be nice for start 16:00 < nsf> preemptive* 16:00 < Namegduf> I wonder how different in price goroutines and new segmented stack threads are. 16:01 < jnwhiteh> Namegduf: segmented stack threads aren't a new thing =) 16:01 < Namegduf> jnwhiteh: "new" as in "newly spawned" 16:01 < jnwhiteh> ah 16:02 < Namegduf> Perhaps "goroutines and segmented stack threads are to spawn." 16:02 < aiju> nothing in CS is new 16:02 < jnwhiteh> truth! 16:03 < jnwhiteh> nsf: so if you could control CPU affinity and priority with goroutines, what would you need threads for? 16:03 < nsf> uhm.. what would I need goroutines for? :) 16:03 < nsf> OS threads/processes are already here 16:03 < jnwhiteh> to avoid the cost of thread creation and destruction 16:03 < nsf> it's not a problem for me 16:04 < kamaji> but it is for some :P 16:04 < jnwhiteh> indeed 16:04 < jnwhiteh> then don't use Go =) 16:04 < nsf> you see the whole point is about "nya nya, I want thread per connection" 16:04 -!- Venom_X_ [~pjacobs@75.92.43.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:04 < jnwhiteh> I don't understand that sentence 16:04 < nsf> otherwise why would the cost of thread construction/destruction hurt? 16:05 < kamaji> It's not just for serving I/O 16:05 < aiju> in any case where you use many goroutines? 16:05 < aiju> Go is about concurrency, not parallelism 16:05 < jnwhiteh> yeah, that's an absurdly limited view of the world 16:05 -!- rtharper [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05 < nsf> there is only one case where you need them 16:05 < nsf> :) 16:05 < jnwhiteh> that's not the only purpose of spawning new conceptual 'processes' 16:05 < kamaji> parallel computation? 16:05 < jnwhiteh> yeah, that's just not true mate 16:06 < nsf> there is no "conceptual" in CPU, CPU doesn't care how you think 16:06 < kamaji> nsf: http://www.xmos.com 16:06 < nsf> language should reflect CPU architecture not your way of thinking 16:06 < jnwhiteh> *sigh* 16:06 < jnwhiteh> I'm saying the terminology is wrong 16:06 < jnwhiteh> this is why I said conceptual 'process' 16:06 < jnwhiteh> because the word 'process' already has an OS context meaning 16:06 < kamaji> nsf: there are CPUs with this exact model 16:06 < jnwhiteh> as does thread of execution 16:06 < jnwhiteh> etc. 16:06 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-zjvirecnsnlamvfe] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:07 < nsf> jnwhiteh: because it's the most important meaning 16:07 < kamaji> I think Go's processes are essentially like CSP's processes 16:07 < jnwhiteh> I disagree. 16:07 < jnwhiteh> 100% 16:07 < jnwhiteh> with nsf, not kamaji 16:07 < nsf> I think this model will simply fail 16:07 < nsf> in 10 years 16:07 < kamaji> lol 16:07 < jnwhiteh> ?? 16:07 < jnwhiteh> yes, all green or hybrid threading models will fail 16:07 < kamaji> 640K should be enough for anyone. 16:07 < jnwhiteh> clearly 16:07 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-qtaazmmsnnsvaiih] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 16:07 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp26.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has joined #go-nuts 16:08 < kamaji> if there's anything we don't want, it's more traditional CPUs 16:08 < nsf> saying that CSP is future isn't that different ) 16:08 < kamaji> hooray for a single chip drawing 120W 16:08 < jnwhiteh> no one has made any claim like that 16:08 < jnwhiteh> you are acting like Go is doing something new 16:08 < jnwhiteh> green and hybrid threading has been around for decades 16:08 < jnwhiteh> and its a valid way of doing things 16:08 < nsf> I don't think so 16:08 < jnwhiteh> 1:1 threading is not the only solution, and I can cite you extensive amount of literature showing this 16:09 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #go-nuts 16:09 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@HSI-KBW-109-193-120-162.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Changing host] 16:09 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 16:09 < jnwhiteh> there's a reason N:M threading exists.. and it is because the 'threading' abstraction provided by the operating system is not sufficient. 16:09 < jnwhiteh> there's *proof* of that 16:09 < jnwhiteh> so you can't really argue against it 16:09 < jnwhiteh> "use the right tool for the right job" 16:09 < jnwhiteh> I don't disagree with that statement, but you seem to be arguing that the presence of the tool in the first place is a problem 16:10 < jnwhiteh> and that I do disagree with =) 16:10 < aiju> 17:09 < nsf> language should reflect CPU architecture not your way of thinking 16:10 < jnwhiteh> oh, I missed that statement 16:10 < aiju> so assembly is best? 16:10 < jnwhiteh> but I'll let aiju field this one =) 16:10 < nsf> aiju: in a way it is 16:10 < aiju> imho both ways are bad 16:10 < kamaji> yep 16:10 < kamaji> I agree ^ 16:11 < aiju> typing in Go is in no way related to CPU architecture 16:11 < kamaji> Nor is it limited to any single person's way of thinking 16:11 < nsf> typing is what was nicely improved, because it doesn't change semantics much 16:11 < exch> tbh, reflecting hardware in a programming language is bad all around 16:11 < nsf> but goroutines (hey, new name, one more?) and GC 16:12 < kamaji> exch: unless it's assembly :P 16:12 < nsf> are just .. 16:12 < jnwhiteh> lol 16:12 < aiju> nsf: interfaces change quite a lot of semantics 16:12 < aiju> 17:14 < exch> tbh, reflecting hardware in a programming language is bad all around 16:12 < nsf> indeed they are 16:12 < jnwhiteh> you're conflating the CPU and the operating system 16:12 < jnwhiteh> they're not the same thing 16:12 < aiju> yeah, let's all write code for some mythical machine 16:12 < jnwhiteh> nor does the OS necessarily accurately reflect the underlying CPU 16:12 < kamaji> JAAAAAVAAAAAAAAA 16:12 < aiju> Java is not even as bad as e.g. LISP 16:13 < jnwhiteh> so I fail to see how you can make the leap from 'typing is good' to 'goroutines are bad' on the same argument. 16:13 < aiju> "the infinite memory model" 16:13 < kamaji> LISP had actual CPUs implementing the machine didn't it? 16:13 < aiju> kamaji: no 16:13 < aiju> LISP machines just were convenient to write LISP interpreters on 16:13 < kamaji> ok, but they were stack machines 16:14 < nsf> jnwhiteh: I'm fine with improving ways of typing and editing, but adding something experimental in the language is just not what I would do 16:14 < jnwhiteh> this isn't experimental 16:14 < kamaji> nsf: You consider goroutines to be experimental? 16:14 < jnwhiteh> it has 25 years of proven history 16:14 < nsf> yes 16:14 < jnwhiteh> its not =) 16:14 < jnwhiteh> that's a fact, not an opinion 16:14 < nsf> 25 years is nothing 16:14 < aiju> your interpretation is an opinion, not a fact 16:14 < nsf> OOP is older 16:14 < kamaji> nsf: Google scholar: "Communicating Sequential Processes" 16:14 < aiju> assigned goto is known since the 50s 16:14 < aiju> doesn't mean it's a good idea 16:14 < nsf> kamaji: I'm aware of that paper by Hoare 16:15 < jnwhiteh> aiju: yes, but it does mean its not experimental 16:15 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 16:15 < jnwhiteh> which is all I was arguing against. 16:15 < kamaji> nsf: I meant all of the papers 16:15 < jnwhiteh> saying goroutines are experiemental is just wrong 16:15 < kamaji> and there do exist CPUs with the CSP model 16:15 < jnwhiteh> and no matter how I 'interpret' that statement from any bias, its just not correct 16:15 < jnwhiteh> the presence of them in a language like Go, that's a different story 16:16 < jnwhiteh> the transputer had precisely this model 16:16 < kamaji> jnwhiteh: as does the XCore 16:16 < jnwhiteh> aye 16:16 < kamaji> but then, the same guy designed it, so that's not really unexpected 16:16 < nsf> well, of course the technology is not experimental, but applying it to programming practice is experimental 16:16 < jnwhiteh> nsf: that is also not the case 16:16 < nsf> there are not so many successul coroutine-based projects 16:16 < nsf> there are some 16:16 < kamaji> Also, he's my computer architecture lecturer, so I'm massively biased 16:16 < nsf> but it's far from widely adopted 16:17 < jnwhiteh> Java had this threading model. 16:17 < jnwhiteh> Ruby also had this threading model 16:17 < aiju> Java and Ruby doing something is usually not an indicator of something good 16:17 < nsf> and to me adding such a feature to the language it's like adding OOP to C in 80s 16:17 < kamaji> aiju: buuuuurn 16:17 < jnwhiteh> aiju: but it shows that its been done 16:17 < jnwhiteh> you seem to be arguing against points I am not making.. 16:17 < jnwhiteh> and I"m not sure why that's the case. 16:18 < aiju> i just made a note alongisde ;P 16:18 < jnwhiteh> alright 16:18 < kamaji> aiju is the comic relief :P 16:21 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75.92.43.21] has joined #go-nuts 16:24 < xyproto> I'm trying to learn about interfaces, but I have completely misunderstood something. 16:25 < xyproto> http://pastebin.com/tzHT1J9T 16:25 < xyproto> I have googled, but the top 5 pages did not get me any further. 16:26 < exch> xyproto: your interface methods are defined on *Robot, but you are calling them on Robot 16:27 < exch> so *Robot implements Controllable, Robot does not 16:28 < exch> solve it by having NewRobot return a pointer instead of a value 16:32 < xyproto> exch: ok, thanks! 16:33 < plexdev> http://is.gd/qGvP24 by [Yasuhiro Matsumoto] in go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: No need to use filepath.IsAbs() 16:35 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 16:39 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:39 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED42E59.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:40 -!- artefon [~thiago@dhcp26.usuarios.dcc.ufmg.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 16:45 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47 -!- matti_ [~mumboww@c-24-6-22-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: matti_] 16:51 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:53 -!- PJRobins [~quassel@174-20-67-7.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:56 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56 < steven> niemeyer_meeting: does gorun allow passing arguments to the go file? 16:56 < niemeyer_meeting> steven: It does 16:56 < niemeyer_meeting> steven: As usual.. just process os.Args 16:58 -!- fabled [~fabled@mail.fi.jw.org] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:59 -!- zimsim [~simon@87.72.77.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:04 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED43A0B.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 17:06 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-69-181-223-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:07 -!- sysiphus [~opera@unaffiliated/sysiphus] has joined #go-nuts 17:12 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:14 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 17:14 < steven> sweet. 17:14 < steven> niemeyer: so then you dont allow multiple files? 17:15 -!- zimsim [~simon@87.72.77.195] has joined #go-nuts 17:17 < niemeyer> steven: In which sense? 17:17 -!- go-irc-ch [~go-irc-ch@2001:470:1f13:3b4:20a:e4ff:fe49:b68c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:21 < steven> gorun file1.go file2.go 17:21 -!- matti_ [~mumboww@c-24-6-22-101.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:21 < matti_> im trying to write a simple program using the Timer type, where it will print the time every 10 seconds 17:22 < matti_> but im having trouble understanding the correct usage 17:22 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 17:22 < matti_> especially AfterFunc and how it's used... 17:23 < niemeyer> steven: No, just like you can't do /bin/sh file1.sh file2.sh, or python file1.py file2.py 17:23 < matti_> when i looked at the test bench, all they were doing was just passing in a time of 0 (not sure why they would do that), and an anonymous function 17:23 < steven> niemeyer: cool. i one-up'd you then :) 17:24 < skelterjohn> niemeyer: but it doesn't make sense in those contexts 17:24 < steven> godo file1.go file2.go -- arg1 arg2 ... 17:24 < skelterjohn> for go source, it does 17:24 < steven> :) 17:24 < skelterjohn> as long as only one of htem has a main() 17:24 < niemeyer> steven: Oh gosh.. 17:24 * steven is a one-up'er 17:24 < niemeyer> steven-- 17:24 < skelterjohn> with .sh or .py files, it's not clear which you run first 17:24 < steven> :'( 17:25 -!- cenuij [~cenuij@base/student/cenuij] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26 < exch> steven's solution is elegant in the case of Go 17:26 < steven> ty 17:27 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.67.7] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 17:28 < matti_> if someone could point me in the right direction, it'd be much appreciated. thanks :) 17:28 < niemeyer> exch: Yeah, it's also broken 17:28 < skelterjohn> matti_: what is the issue with time.After? 17:28 < exch> matti_: it seems simple enough.. "AfterFunc waits at least ns nanoseconds before calling f in its own goroutine. It returns a Timer that can be used to cancel the call using its Stop method." 17:28 < exch> what exactly is causing problems? 17:29 < skelterjohn> AfterFunc I mean 17:29 < niemeyer> exch: But I'll shut up I guess.. I don't really want to argue about that pseudo-competition 17:29 < matti_> tbh, im not quite sure what the problem is 17:29 < skelterjohn> what are you trying to do that isn't happening? 17:29 < matti_> let me pastebin what i have so far, and show you my output 17:30 < matti_> just trying to use the Timer to print the current time and 10 second intervals 17:30 < matti_> just want to write a test class 17:30 -!- anticw [~anticw@c-67-169-68-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30 -!- anticw [~anticw@c-67-169-68-180.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:31 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32 < matti_> http://www.pastie.org/1686916 17:32 < matti_> actually i was trying to do something even simpler ^_^ 17:32 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 17:32 < matti_> just print the number "1" from within the AfterFunc function... should be pretty straightforward, but not sure why it's not working... 17:32 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.131.13] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:33 < matti_> the only output i get is "Hello World" 17:33 < matti_> i do not get the "1" 17:33 < skelterjohn> time.AfterFunc(0, func(){println(1)}) 17:33 < skelterjohn> oh 17:33 < skelterjohn> that's because main() exits 17:33 < skelterjohn> you aren't waiting around for things to happen 17:33 < skelterjohn> once main() returns, your program stops. period. 17:34 < matti_> doh... 17:34 < skelterjohn> if you want things to happen, you have to cause main to not return 17:34 < matti_> how should i get it to wait? 17:34 < skelterjohn> you can do "<-time.AfterFunc(0, foo).C" 17:34 < matti_> just put the thread to sleep? 17:34 < skelterjohn> that's one way, that will work here, maybe 17:35 < skelterjohn> you can also have your foo send something on a channel to say that it has happened 17:35 < skelterjohn> and read from that channel at the end of main 17:35 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c6cb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:35 < matti_> oh ok, let me try that... i am still not too familiar with channels yet, but it might be good to learn that now 17:36 < skelterjohn> i don't know if what i wrote above will work - it depends on whether C gets sent to before or after the function is called 17:36 < skelterjohn> actually, it's probably concurrent 17:36 < skelterjohn> so, might not work 17:36 < skelterjohn> you'll need to add your own infrastructure 17:36 < matti_> ok let me try a few things.... 17:37 < matti_> i might be in here later :) 17:37 < matti_> thanks skelterjohn! 17:37 < skelterjohn> :) my pleasure 17:40 < niemeyer> skelterjohn: After does that internally 17:40 < niemeyer> matti_, skelterjohn: More specifically, <-time.After(t) 17:41 < niemeyer> matti_, skelterjohn: AfterFunc doesn't set C, if I'm not on crack 17:41 < skelterjohn> i was just looking at the godoc 17:41 < skelterjohn> i've never used these tools 17:41 < skelterjohn> so i could be way off base 17:48 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has joined #go-nuts 17:49 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has quit [Client Quit] 17:49 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has joined #go-nuts 17:49 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51 -!- waqas [~waqas@jaim.at] has joined #go-nuts 17:53 < niemeyer> skelterjohn: "When the Timer expires, the current time will be sent on C unless the Timer represents an AfterFunc event." 17:53 < skelterjohn> heh 17:53 < skelterjohn> cool 17:53 < skelterjohn> never listen to anything i say 17:54 -!- sunfmin [~sunfmin@87.213.45.42] has joined #go-nuts 17:54 -!- keithgcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-hkohwguxgkeyucjo] has joined #go-nuts 17:55 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:59 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:06 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:10 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:13 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:14 -!- ptolomy [~consalus@66.109.104.32] has joined #go-nuts 18:14 -!- ptolomy [~consalus@66.109.104.32] has quit [Client Quit] 18:15 < waqas> Is there a favored parser/statemachine generator? I recall reading Ragel was getting Go support. 18:16 -!- PJRobins_ [~quassel@174-20-86-139.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:16 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:17 -!- PJRobins [~quassel@174-20-67-7.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:17 < steven> man, compared to this channel, the guys in #bash are assholes 18:17 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@66.109.104.32] has joined #go-nuts 18:18 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@66.109.104.32] has quit [Client Quit] 18:18 < exch> the channel name wuold imply that 18:18 < exch> *would 18:18 < steven> sigh 18:18 < steven> i just want to make godo better, they're not helping any 18:18 < waqas> Any fun arguments? 18:19 < skelterjohn> eventually any irc channel will become full of people who find it more entertaining to make fun of requests rather than fulfill them 18:20 < exch> likely because they have been there from the beginning and have answered every possible question a billion times already :) 18:21 < exch> still, I suppose that's what you should expect to happen when you join an IRC channel, so it's not really a reason to be an ass about it 18:21 < skelterjohn> also, they don't need to be nice to people to get them interested in bash 18:21 -!- ako [~nya@fuld-590c6da7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:22 < skelterjohn> with go, i feel that i can make it more likely that the language i enjoy coding in will flourish if i help people with questions, when i can 18:22 < skelterjohn> also i am a tremendous slacker, and irc is perfect for that 18:22 < exch> true 18:23 < skelterjohn> you affirm my statement that i'm a tremendous slacker? :) 18:23 < exch> I couldnt comment on that :p I was referring to the fact that IRC is perfect for slacking 18:23 < steven> sigh. i just hope God has mercy on greycat and rebukes him. thats all 18:23 < kimelto> If I want to print the stacktrace I have to use runtime.Callers and runtime.FuncForPC, right? 18:24 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 < steven> never heard of FuncForPC 18:24 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c6cb6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:24 < steven> sounds neat 18:25 < skelterjohn> oh very good 18:25 < skelterjohn> good = cool 18:25 < skelterjohn> i didn't know about that function 18:26 < skelterjohn> time to slack more from writing, so i can upgrade my stack trace printing package 18:27 < waqas> Cool indeed 18:27 < steven> :) 18:27 < kimelto> :) 18:27 < steven> does 'testing' package make use of this? 18:27 < steven> thatd be sweet. 18:27 < sunfmin> Hi guys 18:28 < sunfmin> I got this error when I try to run my little test of a package 18:28 < sunfmin> _testmain.go:6: undefined: testing.Test 18:28 < sunfmin> _testmain.go:9: testing.Benchmark is not a type 18:28 < sunfmin> _testmain.go:13: not enough arguments to function call 18:28 < sunfmin> _testmain.go:14: not enough arguments to function call 18:28 < skelterjohn> import "testing" 18:28 < sunfmin> I did: 18:28 < sunfmin> package hello 18:28 < sunfmin> import ( 18:28 < sunfmin> "testing" 18:28 < sunfmin> ) 18:28 < sunfmin> func TestHello(t *testing.T) { 18:28 < sunfmin> } 18:28 < skelterjohn> sunfmin: do not paste code in the chan 18:28 -!- gr0gmint [~quassel@87.61.162.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28 < sunfmin> ok, :( 18:28 < skelterjohn> use a pastebin 18:28 < sunfmin> ok, ;) 18:28 -!- SirPsychoS [~sp@c-24-13-132-130.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:29 < skelterjohn> sunfmin: the code you posted did not create the errors you posted 18:29 < skelterjohn> so it's difficult for me to point out what's wrong with the code that actually had errors 18:30 < sunfmin> http://pastie.org/1687072 18:30 -!- SirPsychoS [~sp@c-24-13-132-130.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 < skelterjohn> very funny 18:31 < sunfmin> my source code: http://pastie.org/1687077 18:31 < sunfmin> of the hello.go 18:31 < skelterjohn> oh wait -t hose errors are from the generated test source 18:31 < skelterjohn> my mistake, i'm sorry 18:31 < skelterjohn> try upgrading your go installation 18:31 < skelterjohn> and rebuilding it 18:32 < sunfmin> ok, doing it now. 18:33 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@66.109.104.32] has joined #go-nuts 18:33 < sunfmin> Normally built from latest code ? I am using Mac brew to install go now. 18:33 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@66.109.104.32] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33 < skelterjohn> i use hg pull -u 18:33 < skelterjohn> i'm not really familiar with the various package managers 18:33 < sunfmin> ok, cool 18:35 < steven> check out mah readme bros: https://github.com/sdegutis/godo 18:35 < skelterjohn> hooray - a readme 18:35 < skelterjohn> ? 18:35 < skelterjohn> :) 18:35 < steven> (no i mean read it hehe) 18:36 < skelterjohn> i did 18:36 < steven> godo now allows multiple files *and* arguments 18:36 < steven> woot. 18:36 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.225.32] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:41 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41 -!- nighty__ [~nighty@tin51-1-82-226-147-104.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:43 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:47 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 18:47 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75.92.43.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:48 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 18:48 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Client Quit] 18:49 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:50 < sunfmin> Hi, Now I got this: 18:50 < sunfmin> http://pastie.org/1687129 18:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/HeaG56 by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: Use preallocated buffer for epoll. 18:51 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:52 -!- rtharper [~tomh@unaffiliated/sioraiocht] has joined #go-nuts 18:54 < sunfmin> Hi skelterjohn? 18:54 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 18:54 < sunfmin> still there? 18:54 < skelterjohn> hi, yeah i was in another desktop 18:54 < skelterjohn> make clean test 18:54 < skelterjohn> that error happens when you don't clean between installs of go 18:55 < sunfmin> Still the same 18:55 < sunfmin> alright. 18:55 < skelterjohn> oh - 18:55 < skelterjohn> something in $GOROOT/pkg didn't get cleaned 18:55 < skelterjohn> go to $GOROOT/src 18:55 < skelterjohn> and do "make clean all" 18:55 < skelterjohn> well, i don't know if all is a target there 18:55 < skelterjohn> "make clean" and "make" then 18:57 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 18:57 < sunfmin> I should do ./clean.bash I think? 18:57 < sunfmin> make: *** No rule to make target `clean'. Stop. 18:58 < skelterjohn> yeah, then you need to rerun all.bash though 18:58 < skelterjohn> was trying to skip that step, since it takes forever 18:58 < skelterjohn> sorry 18:58 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58 < sunfmin> doing it now. thank you very much. 18:58 < sunfmin> yeah, but I can wait, ;-) 19:00 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has joined #go-nuts 19:00 < sunfmin> ohh, It worked!!!, thanks, :-) 19:03 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:03 -!- PJRobins [~quassel@174-20-86-139.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04 < skelterjohn> great! 19:05 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 19:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7QDQg5 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/rpc/ -- rpc: keep free lists of Request and Response structures. 19:09 < steven> is rob pike in here? 19:10 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11 < skelterjohn> i've never seen him in here 19:11 < skelterjohn> at least i haven't realized it 19:13 < sunfmin> (actually he is watching you) 19:13 < steven> creepy 19:13 < steven> HI ROB!!! 19:13 < steven> HOW ARE YOU!!!!! 19:13 < steven> WOULD YOU LIKE A GLASS OF WATER!!!!!! 19:14 < steven> (can he hear me?) 19:14 < aiju> Pike is too old for IRC ;P 19:19 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 19:23 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 19:24 -!- fizzbuzzer [~consalus@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 19:25 < fizzbuzzer> . 19:26 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:27 -!- imsplitbit [~imsplitbi@64.39.4.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29 < niemeyer> fizzbuzzer: That's what I call a to-the-point sentence.. 19:30 < fizzbuzzer> Apologies; testing my IRC client, and needed someone to say something. :) 19:33 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 19:34 < steven> regardless of questions of style, is it feasible to make parentheses around function-call arguments optional in Go? 19:34 < steven> fizzbuzzer: its a good idea to grab your own channel when you test an IRC prgraom 19:35 < skelterjohn> steven: not unless you change the language 19:35 < steven> or feel free to use #giantrobot, its dead in there 24/7 19:35 -!- SirPsychoS [~sp@c-24-13-132-130.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:35 < fizzbuzzer> steven: Good point. Will do. 19:35 < steven> skelterjohn: right, thats what im asking. would it be too difficult to make that change? 19:36 < skelterjohn> foo(a) / 2 19:36 < skelterjohn> foo a / 2 19:36 < skelterjohn> is it foo(a/2) or foo(a)/2? 19:36 -!- madcapfizzle [~username@216.239.45.130] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37 -!- SirPsychoS [~sp@c-24-13-132-130.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:37 < steven> skelterjohn: in certain places it would give an error about ambiguity 19:37 < steven> sure, thats fine. id rather not allow foo a / 2 19:37 < steven> but foo(a) vs foo a, should be clean 19:37 < skelterjohn> so i can't divide function calls by 2? 19:37 < steven> as long as theres no ambiguity 19:38 < steven> you can, but you need to use parens 19:38 < steven> remember i said "optional"? 19:38 < skelterjohn> it's a pretty complicated grammar that says "do this, as long as there is no ambiguity" 19:38 < skelterjohn> doesn't seem feasible, to me 19:38 < steven> its been done in ruby, i know that much. 19:38 < skelterjohn> ruby is not very feasible 19:38 < steven> sure it is. 19:39 < steven> i use it every dya. 19:39 < steven> i dont *like* it as much as Go, but its feasible. 19:39 < steven> ;) 19:39 < skelterjohn> you feas it all the time, do you? :) 19:39 < steven> heha 19:39 < steven> hahe 19:39 < steven> oO 19:39 < steven> \/ 19:39 < plexdev> http://is.gd/QusQvO by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/cmd/cgo/ -- cgo: fix index-out-of-bounds bug 19:39 < steven> (crazy face) 19:46 -!- fizzbuzzer [~consalus@216.239.45.130] has quit [Quit: goodbye.] 19:47 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has quit [Quit: plainhao] 19:50 < steven> i like makengo but i dont like the implementation or execution 19:51 < steven> is the polite thing to do, to fork it and rewrite it, to send him my suggestions, or just write my own competing thingy? 19:51 < niemeyer> steven: Everything is polite, if you do it politely :) 19:52 < niemeyer> steven: Sorry for my lack of patience earlier, btw.. 19:52 < niemeyer> steven: I was a bit frustrated by the undue attacks in the ML, but you have nothing to do with that. 19:52 < niemeyer> steven: I have some polite feedback for you in terms of your earlier suggestion regarding multiple files. 19:52 < niemeyer> :) 19:53 < niemeyer> steven: You can't do that, or you'll break argument parsing when it's used in a bangline context 19:55 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has joined #go-nuts 19:55 -!- jeng [~jeng@74.194.1.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CAF5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/rQXglb by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: Use preallocated buffer for kqueue/kevent. 19:58 < steven> niemeyer: not sure i follow 19:58 < niemeyer> steven: Which part of it? Me apologizing? 19:58 < steven> nah 19:58 < niemeyer> steven: Kidding.. 19:58 < steven> bangline something 19:59 < exch> #!/usr/bin/foobar 19:59 < niemeyer> steven: Try this: put #!/path/to/godo into a file you want to turn into a script 19:59 < exch> ^ like that 19:59 < steven> oh yeah. it is a little broken right now. 19:59 < steven> the solution is ugly, but its doable still 19:59 < steven> ./script -- arg1 arg2 19:59 < niemeyer> steven: Then run the file like this: script.go filearg.go 19:59 < niemeyer> steven: Yep, exactly 19:59 < steven> see: https://github.com/sdegutis/godo/blob/master/README.md 20:00 < steven> i think its a worthwhile tradeoff 20:00 < niemeyer> steven: No need.. just wanted to make sure you were aware of the problem 20:00 < steven> to allow arguments in scripts along with multiple files 20:00 < steven> thanks niemeyer 20:00 < niemeyer> steven: Cool, sounds good 20:00 < niemeyer> That's why multiple implementations exist :) 20:00 < steven> hehe 20:00 < steven> you're still duplicating work though 20:01 < steven> https://github.com/tav/go/blob/master/src/Make.inc 20:01 < steven> you do a lot of the same "figuring out" that this file already does 20:01 < steven> you could just farm out the work to make ;) 20:04 < niemeyer> steven: What is gorun duplicating from Make.inc, exactly? 20:06 < steven> TheChar and Compile 20:06 < steven> and a portion of GoRun 20:06 < skelterjohn> nothing should depend on make 20:07 < skelterjohn> (in my humble opinion) 20:07 < niemeyer> steven: you mean a string comparison, and calling 6l and 6c? I'm very happy to duplicate those trivial tasks into machine code and not depend on make ever. 20:08 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08 < steven> ok 20:10 -!- gmilleramilar1 [~gmiller@pool-74-101-133-165.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:10 < steven> skelterjohn: so what do you use instead of make? 20:10 < steven> with go 20:10 < skelterjohn> man, i must have mentioned it to you at least ten times by now 20:10 < skelterjohn> in different contexts :) 20:10 < steven> gb? 20:11 < skelterjohn> yes! 20:11 < steven> :) 20:11 < skelterjohn> oh, were you setting me up? 20:11 < skelterjohn> hah. 20:11 < steven> hah no 20:11 < steven> i just forgot 20:11 < skelterjohn> gb wouldn't work for something like godo or gorun 20:11 * steven is multitasking 20:11 < skelterjohn> since specifying the source files is part of what you *want* to do 20:11 < steven> i like simple tools that work together 20:12 < steven> gb seems more complex, which is why i havent looked into it 20:12 < steven> whereas make is really simple 20:12 < skelterjohn> different tool for a different job 20:12 < skelterjohn> HAH 20:12 < skelterjohn> did you just call make simple? 20:12 < skelterjohn> wow 20:12 < steven> with my limited experience with it anyway 20:12 < steven> its lightweight and stays out of my way. 20:12 < exch> for go they are simple because the includes hide all the tedium 20:13 < skelterjohn> and they only work for special kinds of proejcts 20:13 < skelterjohn> projects 20:13 -!- gmilleramilar [~gmiller@38.104.67.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13 < steven> most of what ive seen in Go's makefiles could be rewritten in bash with slightly more boilerplate complexity 20:13 < skelterjohn> ie, ones that only depend on themselves and stuff in $GOROOT/pkg 20:13 < steven> i heard good things about cmake 20:13 < skelterjohn> steven: is bash turing complete? if so, i'm not surprised 20:13 < skelterjohn> i mean, it's a language 20:13 < skelterjohn> so it should be able to replicate functionality 20:14 < skelterjohn> but i imagine dependency checking would be a pain with bash 20:14 < steven> hi 20:14 < steven> how r u 20:14 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:14 < skelterjohn> turing complete is not the same thing as "passes a turing test" 20:15 < nickbp> thats what she said 20:16 < skelterjohn> makefiles aren't really appropriate for a language where it is easy to do dep analysis by looking at the source 20:16 < skelterjohn> pair that with "one target per directory" and the rest just follows 20:16 < skelterjohn> very straightforward 20:17 < steven> hw r u don 20:17 < steven> doon 20:17 < steven> skelterjohn: does gb look at the source to find dependencies and do stuff with them? 20:18 < steven> or something? 20:18 < skelterjohn> ye 20:18 < skelterjohn> s 20:18 < steven> cool whats it do in that regard? 20:18 < skelterjohn> sees what different targets depend on 20:18 < skelterjohn> and if it can, it makes sure they're built 20:18 < skelterjohn> kind of like goinstall 20:18 < skelterjohn> except fully functional 20:19 < skelterjohn> go-gb.googlecode.com has info - i actually wrote up some docs 20:19 < skelterjohn> which is unusual for me 20:19 < nickbp> cmake is gr8 20:20 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-69-181-223-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20 < skelterjohn> i just hate making configuration files 20:20 < steven> cool but what scenario is it useful for skelterjohn? 20:20 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.100.252.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:20 < skelterjohn> if it's not obvious from the layout, then you're doing things wrong 20:20 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-69-181-223-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:20 < skelterjohn> steven: scenarios where you don't want to write makefiles, and where you have a bunch of targets that depend on each other (gb does incremental builds) 20:21 < skelterjohn> i have a group of 38 targets (my research experimentation code) 20:21 < skelterjohn> there are lots of interdependencies 20:21 < skelterjohn> if i had to clean all/rebuild each time i'd lose my mind 20:21 < steven> is gb a continuous build server too? 20:21 < steven> ;) 20:21 < skelterjohn> in fact, i was doing that for a while, then i lost my mind and wrote gb 20:21 < skelterjohn> i have no idea what that is, and no, it isn't 20:22 < steven> haha 20:22 < steven> http://godashboard.appspot.com/ == continuous build server 20:22 < steven> kinda 20:22 < skelterjohn> is that something that would watch for file updates and rebuild whenever it sees any? 20:22 < skelterjohn> because that's pretty useful, but not what gb will do 20:22 < skelterjohn> if anything, something can wrap gb and do that 20:23 < skelterjohn> or make, or goinstall, or w/e 20:25 < steven> no 20:25 < steven> at intervals it builds 20:26 < skelterjohn> that's not a continuous build server 20:26 < skelterjohn> that's a discrete build server 20:27 -!- foocraft [~dsc@89.211.240.101] has joined #go-nuts 20:28 -!- venk [~user@CPE-124-189-81-145.azsz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 20:28 -!- hypertux_ [~hypertux@vps1.joelegasse.com] has left #go-nuts [] 20:32 -!- arun_ [~arun@pool-108-18-145-233.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:32 -!- arun_ [~arun@pool-108-18-145-233.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:32 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts 20:32 < steven> oh ok 20:32 < steven> it continually builds ;) 20:36 -!- gmilleramilar1 [~gmiller@pool-74-101-133-165.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:36 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42 -!- arun_ [~arun@unaffiliated/sindian] has joined #go-nuts 20:47 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51 -!- gmilleramilar [~gmiller@pool-74-101-133-165.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:53 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:09 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has joined #go-nuts 21:12 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.16.35] has joined #go-nuts 21:13 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:21 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:27 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has joined #go-nuts 21:29 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:36 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:38 -!- zozoR [~Morten@563476e6.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 21:47 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:50 -!- sunfmin [~sunfmin@87.213.45.42] has quit [Quit: sunfmin] 21:51 -!- sauerbraten [~sauerbrat@p508CAF5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:59 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:05 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 22:06 -!- venk [~user@CPE-124-189-81-145.azsz1.cht.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:17 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@78-62-101-194.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:23 -!- GoBIR [~gobir@c-24-130-224-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:24 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:27 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@74.61.90.217] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 22:29 < plexdev> http://is.gd/nGSdty by [Russ Cox] in go/src/ -- build: diagnose Ubuntu's buggy copy of gold 22:31 < xyproto> Why does not % work on float64? 22:32 < skelterjohn> could you be more specific? 22:32 < skelterjohn> oh - mod operator 22:32 < xyproto> the modulus operator 22:32 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:33 < skelterjohn> it's mathematically defined to be an operation on integers 22:33 < xyproto> skelterjohn: does python do it wrong, then? 22:33 < skelterjohn> lots of languages make up extra stuff for convenience 22:34 < xyproto> skelterjohn: modulus makes sense for floats as well, though 22:34 < xyproto> but, ok 22:35 < skelterjohn> math.Fmod 22:35 < xyproto> oh, okay 22:35 < skelterjohn> + also makes sense for strings, but that doesn't mean the addition operator works on strings in all languages 22:35 < xyproto> I wonder why % doesn't call math.Fmod for float64, then 22:35 < skelterjohn> but in many, it does, for convenience 22:36 < skelterjohn> perhaps % is an assembly instruction 22:36 < skelterjohn> fmod definitely isn't 22:36 < skelterjohn> but i don't know that % is, for sure 22:36 < xyproto> that might be 22:36 < xyproto> guess I could report it as a wish/suggestion, that % calls math.Fmod? Or, they've probably thought it through already. 22:37 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #go-nuts 22:37 < skelterjohn> they will not do that 22:37 < skelterjohn> i promise you :) 22:38 < xyproto> ok, I won't bother then :) 22:38 < xyproto> I find it inconsistent that +, which is a convience function for strings, is implemented, but not % for float64, though 22:39 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:40 < skelterjohn> because not having + for strings would be a huge inconvenience 22:40 < skelterjohn> not having % for floats is, well, i didn't notice it until you mentioned it 22:41 < xyproto> I see your point, but I still think it feels like something that's missing. Adding % for floats would make the language better. It would not be worse, more inconsistent, more cluttered or less simplistic in any way. 22:41 < xyproto> As far as I can see. 22:41 < skelterjohn> the rule of thumb with go is, "we need a good reason to change things" 22:42 < skelterjohn> new-idea being better than current-idea isn't sufficient 22:42 < skelterjohn> it has to be much-better 22:42 < skelterjohn> otherwise, leave things the way they are 22:42 -!- Fish- [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 22:42 < skelterjohn> and i disagree that it would be better to have % do fmod 22:43 < xyproto> I agree, in general. But, in this case, I think it's a missing feature. 22:43 < skelterjohn> 1) my point about machine instructions 22:43 < xyproto> Also, %= does not work for floats. 22:43 < skelterjohn> 2) that's just not what modulus means 22:43 < skelterjohn> modulo, i mean 22:43 < xyproto> yeah, modulo 22:43 < xyproto> I think 2) is the best argument. 22:44 < xyproto> Oh well. math.Fmod works. Thanks :) 22:46 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED43A0B.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:50 -!- shakesoda [~colby@c-24-19-215-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:54 -!- ronnyy [~quassel@p4FF1C515.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54 -!- zimsim [~simon@87.72.77.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 23:24 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-qtaazmmsnnsvaiih] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:38 -!- iant [~iant@67.218.107.6] has joined #go-nuts 23:38 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 23:41 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:56 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit: hcatlin] --- Log closed Sat Mar 19 00:00:55 2011