--- Log opened Tue Mar 29 00:00:50 2011
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00:16 < crazy2be> hmm how can you kill a proccess once you have opened it
00:17 < crazy2be> i suppose i could call pkill
00:17 < exch> with the kill command.  or killall or pkill
00:18 < crazy2be> exch: Sorry, i phrased my question badly
00:18 < crazy2be> using go if possible
00:18 < exch> ah
00:18 < crazy2be> i would like to kill a process, and i have it's pid in a
file
00:18 < crazy2be> so far i have read the file and extracted the pid as a int
00:18 < crazy2be> but now i'm stuck :P
00:19 < exch> proc, err := os.FindProcess(pid); ...  proc.Release()
00:19 < exch> not sure if that actually kills it
00:20 < crazy2be> yeah that's what i was thinking
00:21 < crazy2be> but the actual code for it sets the pid to -1 first
00:21 < crazy2be> so i'm doubtful
00:21 < crazy2be> i think it actually removed the process from memory
00:21 < crazy2be> er
00:21 < crazy2be> like the process object
00:22 < exch> yea looks like it doesnt actually touch the process itself
:<
00:22 < str1ngs> http://golang.org/pkg/syscall/#Kill
00:22 < str1ngs> but avoid using syscall if you can
00:23 < exch> is that portable?
00:23 < str1ngs> syscall yes
00:23 < crazy2be> but you should avoid it because it's not a nice api?
00:23 < crazy2be> or might change?
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00:24 < str1ngs> when I say avoid I mean if there is something in os etc
that can handle that.  its better to use it
00:24 < exch> I mean that particular syscall..  There are a bunch of OS
specific calls in there which may or may not be available on other platforms
00:24 < exch> Maybe the os.Process type should be expanded with some utility
functions for process management
00:25 < crazy2be> i imagine it will be
00:25 < str1ngs> also how is the process created?
00:26 < str1ngs> is it some random system process?
00:28 < crazy2be> i create it at some other point with some other program
00:29 < crazy2be> i'm writing a web framework, made up of several concurrent
processes
00:29 < crazy2be> you start them with one command, stop them with another
00:29 < crazy2be> but i'm sending it a SIGINT so that it can catch it and
shutdown "cleanly"
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00:36 < str1ngs> I would think Release would do this but the wording seems
strange to me
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00:45 < str1ngs> syscall.Kill(17577,syscall.SIGTERM)
00:46 < str1ngs> works but..  no way to know if syscall.SIGTERM exist for
the current OS
00:46 < str1ngs> or Kill even.  you would have to check the syscall source I
guess
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00:50 < str1ngs> to be save I think http://golang.org/pkg/os/signal/ would
be better . this way you just signal the channel
00:50 < str1ngs> safe*
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01:20 < crazy2be> hmm running a shell script to then run a module isn't
working...  the script doesn't kill it's child process when it gets sent a SIGINT
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03:40 < Snaury> rsc
03:40 < Snaury> 
03:41 < Snaury> is rsc here?
03:43 < Snaury> Ah, it's fixed in 7906 already :)
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03:45 < skelterjohn> i've never seen rsc in here
03:45 < skelterjohn> too slow
03:47 < steven> i miss this: if (something)\n\tDoSomething()
03:48 < crazy2be> steven: Any decent IDE/text editor will add the closing
brace for you
03:48 < crazy2be> so that you only have to type 2 extra characters
03:48 < steven> i dont want a 2-line statement to be 3 lines.
03:48 < crazy2be> and you don't waste 2 hours trying to figure out why it's
not working
03:50 < crazy2be> so you can have things like this?
http://pastie.org/1729466
03:51 < crazy2be> except foo() is always executed in the first one
03:51 < crazy2be> and foo2() is always executed in the last one
03:54 < steven> touche
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03:56 < crazy2be> if statements like that are almost always better with
braces
03:57 < crazy2be> if you want to use indentation, go with python :P
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04:11 < steven> heh
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04:11 < steven> sometimes i wish ruby had indentation like python
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04:13 < str1ngs> steven: does steveterm support changing ansi colors?
04:13 < steven> ha, you found steveterm?
04:13 < steven> :D
04:13 < str1ngs> I stalked you and found it :P
04:14 < steven> probably not.  honestly its very bare-basic until such time
as i learn how to properly translate VT100 sequences
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04:14 < str1ngs> because without hacking the mac Terminal it blows the back
of my eye balls ouot.
04:14 < steven> yeah that was one of my motivations for starting it
04:15 < steven> ie, i hate iTerm and love Terminal, but do not love the
terminal colors
04:15 < steven> or lack thereof
04:15 < str1ngs> rxvt works ok but its slooow
04:15 < steven> oooo idea
04:15 < steven> ill write a terminal app using a cmdline ui :D
04:15 < steven> terminal.rb!  :D
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04:16 < nickbp> screen????????????
04:16 < steven> right on brotha
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04:16 < str1ngs> you are still stuck with the mac Term's color no?
04:16 < nickbp> terminator imo
04:16 < str1ngs> ie blue = facemelterblue
04:16 < steven> yep
04:17 < steven> i avoid blue
04:17 < steven> but green and cyan are nice, against a black bg :
04:17 < steven> )
04:17 < str1ngs> the fact you cannot change them is beyond me
04:17 < steven> yeah go figure
04:18 < steven> thats the only feature i hope to see in Lion
04:18 < str1ngs> code name Rawr?
04:18 < steven> ha
04:18 < str1ngs> did you find that terminal bundle hack?
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04:19 < steven> wha?
04:19 < steven> not sure what you mean
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04:20 < str1ngs>
http://ciaranwal.sh/2007/11/01/customising-colours-in-leopard-terminal
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04:20 < str1ngs> that's generally what I use
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04:22 < steven> ah
04:22 < steven> nah i just suck it up
04:22 < steven> im not a fan of code injection honestly
04:22 < str1ngs> for the sake of my eyes its worth it
04:23 < steven> btw i cant wait for ciaran to finish textmate 2
04:23 < steven> last i heard (2 years ago?) he was hired to finish the app.
sigh.
04:23 < str1ngs> its not vim I dont care :P
04:24 < steven> that was me!
04:24 < steven> like a month ago!  for over a year!
04:24 < steven> man.  you cant argue with textmate bundles.
04:24 < steven> they're the shit.
04:24 < str1ngs> I'm stuck with vim
04:24 < str1ngs> lifer
04:27 < steven> yeah, i believe that.
04:27 < steven> just like most people i know refuse to turn their lives to
Jesus for whatever stubborn reason, even though ultimately its what they were
built for.
04:27 < steven> in the same way, you would benefit from TextMate but you
wont give it a shot
04:28 < str1ngs> I have tried texmate some.
04:28 < steven> oh well.  ive had practice letting people make bad decisions
and sitting back :)
04:28 < str1ngs> textmate even
04:28 < steven> hehe
04:28 < str1ngs> but when I'm on server B on on linux which I tend to be
most of the time.  vim is always there
04:29 < steven> lucky you
04:29 < steven> we only have vi on our servers :(
04:29 < str1ngs> well I started with vi so I dont mind that either
04:29 < steven> :)
04:29 < steven> <3
04:29 < steven> may god bless you brother
04:30 < dforsyth> nvi is good stuff
04:30 < str1ngs> but I promise next time I boot up my mac I'll give textmate
a go
04:30 < dforsyth> lol
04:30 < dforsyth> whats the point of abandoning what you know
04:31 < steven> dforsyth?
04:31 < steven> nvi?
04:31 < steven> str1ngs: what language do you code in most for work?
04:31 < steven> i cant honestly say textmate is great for everything since i
only use it for ruby/rspec/rails/bash/etc
04:32 < str1ngs> steven: varies
04:32 < steven> so i would be lying if i promised you that it would work out
best for you
04:32 < dforsyth> nvi is a reaimplementation of vi
04:32 < steven> unlike jesus, which i can promise will work out best for you
:)
04:32 < steven> dforsyth: o
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04:35 < str1ngs> goarchive has a major bug.  it doesnt handle links
04:35 < str1ngs> \o/
04:36 < dforsyth> is goarchive the tar thing youre writing?
04:36 < str1ngs> aye
04:36 < dforsyth> cool
04:36 < dforsyth> after your gist i was thinking about doing that
04:37 < str1ngs> I put it up on github if you want to mess with it
04:37 < str1ngs> goarchive is the name
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04:39 < str1ngs> I'm going to make it a sub package and make the the root
dir.  a command package gotar I guess
04:39 < dforsyth> i was thinking about implementing a complete tar type
deal, if i could think of something that would make using it more beneficial than
bsdtar
04:40 < str1ngs> well its beneficially in the sense you can decompress bzip2
gzip's from native go
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04:40 < str1ngs> all it does is use the stdlib just makes it easier
04:41 < dforsyth> well, right, but i mean i would want my tar command to do
something differently than bsdtar
04:41 < dforsyth> beyond just go, i want a reason to reimplement a complete
tar
04:41 < str1ngs> sure
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04:42 < str1ngs> but how different can you be really.
04:43 < dforsyth> right
04:43 < dforsyth> which is why i didnt just do it :)
04:43 < str1ngs> my real purpose is not not make forked calls
04:43 < dforsyth> absolutely
04:43 < dforsyth> thats the reason libarchive exists
04:44 < str1ngs> right but then you need libarchive installed and a cgo
wrapper
04:44 < dforsyth> it started as an attempt to avoid forking in the freebsd
package tools
04:44 < str1ngs> freebsd package are sh scripts?
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04:44 < str1ngs> package tools*
04:44 < dforsyth> no, theyre c
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04:45 < dforsyth> huh..  the changes i made in stat_*.go break parser
tests...
04:45 < dforsyth> i think gopack might rely on a bug
04:45 < str1ngs> so they take a ports and package?
04:46 < dforsyth> packages are precompiled ports
04:46 < str1ngs> I havent used bsd much so forgive my ignorance
04:46 < dforsyth> ports is all make and shell
04:46 < dforsyth> the package tools (pkg_add, pkg_delete, etc) are all
written in c
04:46 < str1ngs> ah ok
04:47 < str1ngs> so they take a package and insert it into the system.  my
with transactions or something
04:47 < dforsyth> something like that, no transaction support though
04:47 < dforsyth> its all kind of janky, its due for an overhaul
04:47 < str1ngs> hardcore lol
04:47 < dforsyth> kimelto hacks on it
04:48 < dforsyth> i used to hack on it a lot, but kind of got burned out
04:48 < str1ngs> well I'd be instrested in that . sounds alot like a package
manager to me
04:48 < dforsyth> id love to implement tools in go
04:48 < dforsyth> its is a package manager, ive spent a lot of time in the
past ~2.5 years looking at it
04:49 < str1ngs> does that only use /usr/local or can it use /usr/ etc
04:49 < dforsyth> everything goes in /usr/local
04:49 < str1ngs> kk gotcha
04:50 < str1ngs> well let me know.  be fun to use that with via
04:51 < str1ngs> also long as I can adjust --prefix
04:51 < str1ngs> linux seems to love /usr/ over /usr/local for package
management
04:51 < dforsyth> yeah, thats an environment var
04:52 < str1ngs> I added limited package staging just not complete.  right
now I simulate the package staging in /opt/via
04:52 < str1ngs> so stuff like make DESTDIR=
04:53 < dforsyth> by staging do you mean compilation steps?
04:54 < str1ngs> kinda ya
04:54 < str1ngs> I have download staging building packaing
04:54 < str1ngs> there is also prebuild stuff like that
04:55 < dforsyth> ah i see
04:55 < str1ngs> right now packaging just stuffs everthing into /opt/via.
but later I plan to use goarchive to package is ~/via/tmp/bash/bash-4.0-package
04:56 < str1ngs> bash-4.0-package gets tarballed and zipped
04:57 < str1ngs> but to really handle binaries and not be a ports only.
need a package manager
04:57 < crazy2be> night
04:57 < str1ngs> night
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05:03 < dforsyth> ugh why is this breaking parser_test
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05:23 < dforsyth> ahhh shoot i see what i did
05:25 < str1ngs> you broke it thats what you did :P
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06:47 < nsf> hahaha, gc's error message:
06:47 < nsf> test.go:5: stupid shift: -5
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06:54 < str1ngs> nsf: gocode nees gofix I think..  what release do you
target?
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07:24 < nsf> str1ngs: weekly.2011-03-15
07:24 < nsf> just don't rebuild it
07:24 < nsf> oh, it's so confusing
07:24 < nsf> next time I will fix it for the real 'release'
07:26 < str1ngs> ok thanks
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08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YZd8Eg by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/test/fixedbugs/ -- test: match gccgo error messages for bug325.go.
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/IKS29M by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: Alexey
Borzenkov (individual CLA)
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/qdwGC1 by [Alexey Borzenkov] in
go/src/pkg/runtime/darwin/amd64/ -- runtime: fix darwin/amd64 thread VM footprint
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/FAopQr by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/http/ --
http: avoid crash when asked for multiple file ranges
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/uQPV3B by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/test/fixedbugs/ -- test: match gccgo error messages for bug323.go.
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/pEKPbU by [Russ Cox] in 8 subdirs of go/ --
build: add all-qemu.bash, handful of arm fixes
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/LqrHns by [Luuk van Dijk] in
go/src/pkg/runtime/ -- runtime: fix gdb support for goroutines.
08:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/kywD3p by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in
go/src/pkg/strings/ -- strings: Map: avoid allocation when string is unchanged
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/1dQi50 by [Robert Griesemer] in 4 subdirs of
go/src/ -- go/ast: implemented NewPackage
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/AdqC2t by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: let OS-specific AddFD routine wake up polling thread.
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/y8gPf0 by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/go/token/ -- go/token: use array instead of map for token->string
table
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/OxowkD by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/doc/ --
doc: gccgo now supports method expressions and multiple init functions.
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/js4snu by [Robert Griesemer] in go/lib/godoc/
-- godoc: fix spelling error
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/h54kcJ by [Robert Griesemer] in 12 subdirs of
go/src/ -- go/scanner: return literal as string instead of []byte
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YnMfTB by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/go/printer/ -- go/printer, gofmt: rely on existing line breaks when
formatting expression lists
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ZmThmi by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/
-- weekly.2011-03-28
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/4afbXt by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- tag
release.2011-03-28
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/F7QvTq by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- net: drop laddr from Dial, cname from LookupHost; new functions
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/KuooZR by [Russ Cox] in 8 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- update tree for package net changes
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ZmWNTv by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gofix/ --
gofix: netdial
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/zw4uYh by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- fix
build
08:18 < plexdev> http://is.gd/pFwEph by [Alexey Borzenkov] in
go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: implement non-blocking connect
08:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/LCCqiJ by [Evan Shaw] in go/misc/kate/ --
kate: reorganize, remove closed()
08:19 < plexdev> http://is.gd/9dZJHr by [Evan Shaw] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- bytes, strings: simplify Join
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09:02 < hallas> greets all.  I am having some trouble installing go on amd64
linux.  6l is compiled and works fine.  The .all.bash script just ends after
copying it to the bin.  I have no clue why it doesnt make the other executables :/
Any ideas?
09:02 < hallas> make ends with "no child processes"
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09:09 < str1ngs> hallas: are you using release?
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09:10 < hallas> str1ngs: yes
09:10 < str1ngs> hallas: what distro are you using?
09:10 < hallas> ubuntu 10.10
09:10 < hallas> str1ngs: ^
09:11 < str1ngs> hallas: which ed
09:11 < str1ngs> run that
09:11 < hallas> /bin/ed ?
09:11 < str1ngs> kk
09:12 < str1ngs> still odd that it doesnt give an error
09:12 < hallas> quitgcc runs, it copies 6l, make ends
09:12 < hallas> quiet*
09:14 < str1ngs> what code name is 10.10 maverick?
09:14 < tensai_cirno> meerkat
09:15 < str1ngs> sorry dont use ubuntu :(
09:15 < hallas> it's very odd there is no error, im just gonna check that i
have the other tools
09:15 < hallas> to be absolutely certain
09:16 < str1ngs> hallas: did you set and GO env variables?
09:16 < str1ngs> any*
09:16 < hallas> str1ngs: yes, goos, goarch, gobin and gohome
09:16 < hallas> 6l works
09:17 < str1ngs> GOHOME you mean GOROOT?
09:17 < hallas> ye ;)
09:17 < str1ngs> ok just checking
09:17 < str1ngs> GOBIN is located where?
09:17 < hallas> However, I think I was missing some tools.  It seems to run
now after installing libc6-dev.  Perhaps 6l doesnt need that?
09:18 < str1ngs> ah ok so you installed the list of depends required?
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09:18 < hallas> Yes.  Works now.  However, is it makes fault that i didnt
notice any errors?  Because 6l compiled, and 6l is probably last make command?
09:19 < str1ngs> hallas: well its possible there was an error just you
missed it
09:19 < str1ngs> hallas: or quietgcc squelched it
09:19 < str1ngs> just guessing
09:19 < hallas> ;)
09:19 < hallas> Thanks for mentioning ed
09:19 < str1ngs> thats why I had you check for ed.
09:20 < str1ngs> but I guess I should have got you to make sure you install
the depends.  the thought crossed my mine
09:20 < str1ngs> mind*
09:21 < hallas> I just assumed they were installed.  Since they are
dependencies and not optional dependencies, I donkt know..  maybe I'd expect some
clear warning
09:21 < hallas> But thats probably because im not used to setup unix systems
my self
09:21 < str1ngs> you can test that theory uninstall libc6-dev think thats
the name.
09:21 < hallas> Gotta learn it the heard way
09:21 < str1ngs> and rerun it see if there are any errors
09:21 < hallas> hard*
09:22 < hallas> doing so now
09:22 < str1ngs> hallas: ubuntu has some called build-essentials that
installs alot of the required headers etc not sure if it does libc should I would
think
09:23 < hallas> removing that library removed alot of other stuff.  Not good
;) Gave plenty of errors.  Result: If everything except libc6-dev is installed no
errors.
09:24 < str1ngs> ya silent error is not good.
09:24 < str1ngs> umm dont worry about it.  I'll look into it some more
09:24 < hallas> can make assert depencies before running?
09:25 < str1ngs> with a a configure system yes
09:25 < str1ngs> go just uses make
09:25 < hallas> well works fine if you're not being careless like me
09:25 < str1ngs> meh happens
09:26 < str1ngs> eventually you get good at guessing what -dev package you
need
09:26 < str1ngs> the distro I use doesnt split packages so saves me some
time
09:26 < hallas> I only use ubuntu because its easy to installs and works
good with virtualbox
09:27 < str1ngs> ubuntu's fine
09:27 < str1ngs> hallas: its more common to split packages then not
09:29 < hallas> brb, rebooting for nvidia driver
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09:30 < hallas> And i'm back
09:33 < ampleyfly> thank god
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09:40 < hallas> !
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09:42 < xyproto> How do I initialize a complex64 variable with sqrt(-1) ?
09:42 < xyproto> var x complex64 = ?
09:43 < str1ngs> xyproto: goarchive has bugs :(
09:43 < str1ngs> I fixed some.  still working on anoter
09:44 < xyproto> str1ngs: oh well, bugs happen.  I'm sure it will turn out
fine :)
09:45 < str1ngs> xyproto: ya I kinda laughed at some of the stuff I was
doing.  ie I wasnt use the tar constant..  dunno why
09:46 < xyproto> str1ngs: hindsight has the brightest light
09:46 < str1ngs> lol
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09:52 < ampleyfly> xyproto:
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Complex_numbers maybe?
09:54 < xyproto> ampleyfly: ah, thanks, overlooked that :)
09:54 < xyproto> ampleyfly: I googled and googled, but found nothing
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10:23 < ampleyfly> xyproto: yeah, me too
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10:53 * nsf tired of trying to make a sane modules hierarchy in C++
10:53 < nsf> I ended up dumping everything into a single header :)
10:54 < nsf> even orginizing your code properly requires a massive amount of
skill in C++
10:54 < nsf> who needs that :\
10:56 < uriel> I thought you would say "ended up rewriting it all in Go" ;)
10:56 < nsf> no, it's too late for that
10:57 < nsf> 3.5k lines of code
10:57 < nsf> not counting automatically generated lexer and parser
10:57 < taruti> nsf: you are writing C++?  :(
10:57 < taruti> why?
10:58 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56344e3e.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts
10:58 < nsf> libraries, tools, etc.
10:58 < nsf> and C++ is better as a bootstrapping language
10:58 < nsf> for a compiler
10:58 < nsf> than Go
10:59 < taruti> just support crosscompiling and allow binary downloads?
10:59 < taruti> -> no problem
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10:59 < nsf> it's too late for thinking, was it the right choice or not
11:00 < nsf> although most likely it was a wrong choice I must say
11:01 < nsf> :D
11:02 < xyproto> nsf: which program are you writing?
11:02 < nsf> a compiler
11:03 < xyproto> nsf: for Go?
11:03 < nsf> no
11:03 < xyproto> nsf: for a language you made?
11:03 < nsf> yes
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11:04 < xyproto> nsf: sorry if I'm unduly curious :D
11:04 < nsf> it's not finished yet though
11:04 < nsf> I'm defining it by implementation
11:04 < wrtp> nsf: what are you doing about code generation?
11:04 < xyproto> nsf: is that similar to the spirit of D, made by
compiler-people, not comitees?
11:05 < nsf> wrtp: I'm generating C
11:05 < xyproto> *committees
11:05 < nsf> xyproto: more like: made by no one for himself, lol
11:05 < nsf> :D
11:05 < xyproto> nsf: :)
11:05 < xyproto> nsf: well, many good projects have started that way?
11:05 < nsf> I don't know
11:06 < nsf> all projects start the same way
11:06 < nsf> few years of thinking and hating alternatives, then it's
boiling point and you're writing it
11:06 < nsf> hating of*
11:06 < xyproto> nsf: some start because people genuinely wants to solve
someone elses problem, or to solve someone elses problem, but not genuinely, or
their own, genuinely/not genuinely.  At least two axis ;)
11:07 < nsf> maybe
11:07 < nsf> not my case though
11:07 < nsf> I'm just surprise that no one tries to "fix" C
11:07 < nsf> it has many obvious problems
11:08 < nsf> some of them are less obvious, but Go showed them to me at
least
11:08 < nsf> surprised*
11:09 < nsf> C is like a monolith for people..  like something that were in
the past and kind of works today
11:09 < nsf> but if you're creating something new it should be something
bigger than C
11:09 < nsf> and more featurefull
11:09 < nsf> s/ll/l/
11:09 < nsf> like D or Java or Go
11:09 < nsf> and nothing emerges a sane alternative for C
11:09 < nsf> in all senses
11:10 < nsf> like wanna write an operating system?  D/Java/Go?  Yeah, maybe,
but most likely the practical choice is C
11:11 < nsf> with all the crap C is beautiful and wonderful language
11:11 < nsf> why can't we simply make it even more better?  :)
11:11 * nsf sighs
11:11 < nsf> that's the philosophy behind my project
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11:14 < uriel> nsf: ken made c 'more better'
11:15 < uriel> hence 'ken c'
11:15 < nsf> uriel: if it uses a C syntax
11:15 < xyproto> you also have other attempted improvements of C, like C++
11:15 < uriel> (which just made it into gcc!  yay!  thanks iant!)
11:15 < nsf> then he didn't
11:16 < nsf> xyproto: C++ fixes zero C problems
11:16 < nsf> and introduces more
11:16 < nsf> :)
11:16 < xyproto> nsf: I like your idea, that C is useful, so a complete
replacement may not make sense, but some improvement would be great
11:16 < uriel> if syntax is your greatest issue with c, you haven't thought
much about the problem
11:16 < nsf> yeah, supporting current C is a top priority as well
11:16 < nsf> like directly importing C's headers
11:16 < xyproto> nsf: on the other hand, what is the real underlying problem
to be solved?  How to write an OS in a language with less problems than C?
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11:17 < nsf> uriel: context-dependent syntax is one of the obvious C
problems
11:17 < nsf> then the lack of modules system
11:17 < nsf> and existance of a preprocessor
11:17 < xyproto> How about writing a C to Go converter.  Is it possible?
11:17 < Namegduf> Not nicely
11:17 < nsf> xyproto: there are no real problems
11:18 < jessta_> xyproto: then you'd just have Go programs that looked like
C programs
11:18 < Namegduf> Possible, yes- they're both Turing complete
11:18 < xyproto> Namegduf: :D
11:18 < Namegduf> But taking advantage of that can involve madness up to and
including emulation
11:18 < xyproto> jessta_: yes, but maybe it would be easier to build on
existing code, using Go?
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11:19 < xyproto> nsf: would a C to Go converter solve some of the
irritations that made you start writing a compiler?  Or am I shooting peas in the
dark?
11:19 < xyproto> piow piow
11:19 < nsf> no, it won't solve any of my problems
11:19 < xyproto> ok
11:19 < nsf> I don't like Go because it has garbage collector
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11:20 < nsf> and as of now, it's far from promised "zero latency concurrent
GC"
11:20 < xyproto> nsf: true, but there are ways around that, right?
11:21 < nsf> everything else doesn't work for a big amount of applications
11:21 < nsf> xyproto: at the moment: C/C++
11:21 < nsf> are both ways around that
11:21 < wrtp> no GC can ever be zero latency.  you pay a cost to call free
in C.
11:22 < nsf> GC is for languages like javascript, python, ruby, bash
11:22 < nsf> or reference counting or whatever they use
11:22 < xyproto> But, there are several kernels and operating systems
written.  What advantages would writing one in a new language have?  It seems to
me that the only successful ones have been written in C/C++.  Perhaps that's what
C/C++ is great at, and there's nothing wrong with that?  Then applications can be
written in other languages, once that work is done?
11:22 < nsf> I strongly disagree that GC has any place in a systems
programming language
11:23 < wrtp> it's for any language where you ownership of objects is not
clear
11:23 < nsf> but it's a vague statement
11:23 < wrtp> s/you//
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11:23 < nsf> (mine)
11:23 < nsf> systems programming language could mean anything
11:23 < wrtp> i think that better escape analysis will mean that Go will
generate far less garbage
11:23 < nsf> xyproto: most applications are written in C and C++
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11:23 < nsf> I don't know why people think otherwise
11:24 < xyproto> nsf: is that still true?  With the influx of web
applications, mobile apps, programs written in python and ruby etc?
11:24 < nsf> and it's not just a matter of fact
11:24 < Namegduf> Web applications aren't
11:24 < nsf> languages like C/C++ form special way of thinking for a
programmer
11:24 < wrtp> nsf: java looks like it's more popular than C++, by some
metrics anyway
11:24 < Namegduf> Ruby desktop applications are thankfully relatively rare
11:25 < str1ngs> lol
11:25 < Namegduf> Java on the desktop?
11:25 < xyproto> who cares if it's "on the desktop" or not?
11:25 < Namegduf> Because of the phrase "application"
11:25 < nsf> I don't buy all that web 2.0 and cloud computing crap
11:25 < str1ngs> ruby desktop top apps are still launching..  literally
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11:25 < nsf> for me application is a desktop application
11:25 < jessta_> nsf: I wouldn't like to do concurrency without a GC
11:25 < xyproto> "application" does not imply "on the desktop"
11:25 < nsf> jessta_: then do it with a GC
11:26 < Namegduf> Oh yes it does.
11:26 < nsf> I'm not saying GC has no use :)
11:26 < xyproto> Namegduf: reference?
11:26 < nsf> I can't imagine javascript without GC
11:26 < wrtp> jessta_: i don't think nsf will have concurrency in his
language
11:26 < nsf> yeah
11:26 < Namegduf> 7.  Computer Science A computer program with a user
interface.
11:26 < nsf> I'm not even sure about interfaces :)
11:26 < Namegduf> ~ The Free Dictionary
11:26 < nsf> and closures
11:26 < Namegduf> It's a rough definition- it's a vague word
11:26 < Namegduf> But it will suffice
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11:27 < jessta_> nsf: you should just write a better GC
11:27 < wrtp> yeah, closures are hard without GC
11:27 < nsf> jessta_: I have zero experience of writing GCs
11:27 < xyproto> Namegduf: I would rather trust wikipedia: Application
software, also known as software application, application or app, is computer
software designed to help the user to perform a singular or multiple related
specific tasks.  Typical examples are word processors, spreadsheets, media players
and database applications.
11:27 < nsf> and many years experience of managing my memory manually
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11:27 < nsf> :D
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11:27 < xyproto> Namegduf: you're wrong
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11:27 < jessta_> nsf: more experience writing languages
11:27 < jessta_> ?
11:28 < nsf> uhm, no
11:28 < nsf> that will be a first real compiler
11:28 < Namegduf> xyproto: No, you're wrong.  You also aren't actually
making a point.
11:28 < Namegduf> Desktop applications outstrip pretty much anything else in
terms of programs users directly interact with in count
11:28 < xyproto> Namegduf: You're saying all applications has to be "on the
desktop".  That's both vague and wrong.  That is the point I'm making.
11:28 < jessta_> the beauty of a GC'd language is that you can solve the
problem later and in a central location
11:29 < nsf> jessta_: if it's possible
11:29 < nsf> let's take a concrete application
11:29 < Namegduf> xyproto: You're arguing over the definition of a vague
word.  If that's your point you should really pick better ones.
11:29 < nsf> a MMORPG server written in Java
11:29 < nsf> can you fix it?
11:29 < nsf> it eats tons of memory
11:29 < nsf> buying new hardware is what people do
11:29 < xyproto> Namegduf: you're arguing over anything, I don't like you.
I'll put you on ignore.
11:30 < nsf> GC is good for making money
11:30 < nsf> because it's cheaper than hiring people that actually can
manage memory
11:30 < jessta_> nsf: C library that leaks memory, can you fix it?
11:30 < nsf> jessta_: yes, if I have the source code
11:30 < Namegduf> Is this because I'm not hailing web applications as the
god of all mankind?
11:31 < jessta_> xyproto: all applications are on the desktop
11:31 < nsf> jessta_: anyways, I'm not trying to point out that GC is a
useless technology and everyone should learn to manage their memory
11:32 < jessta_> xyproto: 'web applications' are on the desktop too
11:32 < nsf> but there will be always a niche where manual memory management
is the only sane choice
11:32 < xyproto> jessta_: yes, I agree
11:32 < nsf> I'd like to have a nice language that takes that niche
11:32 < nsf> because I'm tired of C and C++
11:32 < xyproto> jessta_: so, 'applications' includes 'web applications' as
well.  Right.
11:32 < nsf> (C++ is much worse than C)
11:33 < jessta_> xyproto: 'web applications' are vague, because they usually
refer to two programs
11:33 < jessta_> the client and the server
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seconds]
11:33 < Namegduf> "Web applications" are trivial in count compared to
regular ones.  In terms of discussing what stuff is written in, making a fuss
about them is stupid
11:33 < Namegduf> They've been around for that much shorter a time
11:33 < xyproto> jessta_: that is true, but judging by the definition from
wikipedia, the definition is focused on tasks, not the other end
11:34 < Namegduf> Unless you call every website a "web application"
11:34 < coud> jessta_, nsf: C library that leaks memory, can you fix it?
<- you can attach GC to it :)
11:34 < xyproto> jessta_: that is, it's still used for completing tasks.
the server/client part may not be important
11:34 < jessta_> xyproto: the client/server part of a web app is very
important
11:35 < xyproto> jessta_: yes, but it may not be important in the context of
defining the term "application", ref the wikipedia definition
11:35 * nsf doesn't understand what are you guys arguing about
11:35 < nsf> :)
11:35 < xyproto> nsf: I think web applications are applications too.
11:35 * jessta_ doesn't either
11:35 < jessta_> xyproto: sure...it's in the name
11:35 < xyproto> nsf: This seemed to provoce much discussion, to my
surprise.
11:36 < nsf> xyproto: and what it changes it they are?
11:36 < Namegduf> Someone said most applications are written in C/C++.
xyproto decided to object and then said a bunch of stuff that involved whining
about web applications being ignored, I think.
11:36 < nsf> ok
11:36 < nsf> let me correct myself
11:36 < jessta_> most web applications are written in C too
11:36 < nsf> most desktop applications are written in C/C++
11:36 < xyproto> *provoke
11:37 < aho> most projects on sf.net are written in java (maybe that changed
in the meantime, but it was true a few years ago)
11:37 < xyproto> aho: I think that may have changed now.  Also, github and
bitbucket may be more representative for contemporary programmers.
11:37 < nsf> aho: well, I'm looking at my desktop now
11:37 < nsf> what do I see
11:38 < aho> github got lots of js
11:38 < nsf> chromium (C++), urxvt(C++), bash(C or C++), weechat(C or C++),
openbox(C), bmpanel2(C)
11:38 < nsf> claws-mail(C or C++)
11:38 < nsf> everything is written in C or C++
11:38 < nsf> :)
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11:39 < jessta_> xyproto: github and bitbucket are pretty tiny
11:39 < xyproto> jessta_: add in google code host as well, then
11:39 < xyproto> jessta_: also, tiny in which regard?  Mentions on the web?
11:39 < aho> firefox (c++/js), µtorrent (c++?), xchat (c++?), komodo
(c++/js/python), chrome (c++/js), netbeans (java) :>
11:40 < jessta_> tiny in terms of total lines of code
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11:40 < xyproto> jessta_: total lines of code actively developed?
11:40 < jessta_> most code isn't open soruce
11:40 < xyproto> jessta_: reference?
11:40 < xyproto> jessta_: you just made that up
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11:41 < nsf> http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/applications.html
11:41 < jessta_> yes, I did.
11:41 < nsf> http://www.lextrait.com/vincent/implementations.html
11:41 < nsf> and there are many lists on the net
11:41 < aho> another metric is the size of the job market
11:41 < nsf> which mentions most major apps
11:41 < aho> or more interestingly: supply/demand ratio thereof
11:42 < aho> <:
11:42 < nsf> aho: job market is different
11:42 < jessta_> xyproto: but, most code is being produced by people getting
paid for it, and most people aren't getting paid to work on opensource software
11:42 < nsf> I bet PHP/Java/C# dominates
11:42 < nsf> and it dominates for a single reason
11:42 < jessta_> I write php for a living.  I write more php than I do
anything else
11:42 < xyproto> nsf: in any case, I fully believe you that most of the
applications on your desktop is written in C/C++.  My desktop too.  And there's
nothing wrong with that.
11:43 < nsf> the requirements for a programmer are much lower
11:43 < aho> c#'s share isn't that big, but the supply/demand ratio is very
favorable
11:43 < aho> from a programmers pov, that is
11:43 < aho> +'
11:43 < nsf> xyproto: yeah, I'm trying to say also, that's there is nothing
to argue about
11:43 < xyproto> jessta_: how do you know that most code is being produced
by people getting paid for it?  I think you just made that up as well.  Reference?
11:43 < nsf> it doesn't matter whether it's true or not that most apps are
C/C++
11:43 < nsf> I'm targeting that kind of apps
11:43 < nsf> no matter how much of them are out there
11:44 < xyproto> nsf: I agree
11:44 < jessta_> xyproto: it's a guess, based on the fact that programmers
need to eat and opensource doesn't tend to pay
11:44 < xyproto> jessta_: some things there just are no measurements for,
like number of lines of code written in the world per language.
11:45 < xyproto> jessta_: then you are also implying that all open source
programmers work which programming, which is wrong
11:45 < xyproto> *with
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11:46 < jessta_> xyproto: I'm not implying that
11:46 < xyproto> jessta_: yes you are, you based your guess upon that fact
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11:46 < nsf> also guys, how many of you seen a lot of C/C++ code?
11:46 < jessta_> If a programmer is doing something else for a living then
they have less time to write code
11:46 < xyproto> jessta_: "most code is being produced by people getting
paid for it" - you just can't know that
11:46 < aho> well, i'd guess the same
11:47 < aho> there is also a 3rd category, by the way
11:47 < aho> opensource, commercial, and junk :)
11:47 < aho> i.e.  code that never turned out to be useful and therefore it
was never used in a commercial project or released as open source
11:48 < xyproto> aho: +1
11:48 < jessta_> xyproto: note, that pretty much all the web apps you use
aren't opensource at all
11:48 < jnwhiteh> if I have a type Foo []uint8
11:49 < jessta_> google,facebook, twitter, your bank, you supermarket, your
government all don't release their code
11:49 < jnwhiteh> I can obviously make a new *Foo using new() but how would
I specify what the slice is?
11:49 < nsf> most of the sf.net is junk
11:49 < nsf> btw
11:49 < jessta_> the software that runs your trains isn't open source
11:50 < aho> ye, many projects go open source right off the bat
11:50 < aho> and then they aren't ever finished :)
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11:51 < jessta_> xyproto: consumer level software is also a tiny part of it
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11:52 < aho> got many game prototypes on my hdds.  all of that is junk,
basically.  even the initial versions of those games which will get finished are
in the junk category, because that code won't be actually used (different
language, you see)
11:52 < jessta_> every litle business has their own little database frontend
app written in VB6
11:52 < aho> or just some gigantic excel mutant
11:53 < nsf> microsoft access, lol
11:53 < nsf> if anyone remembers
11:53 < nsf> :)
11:53 < aho> LALALALA
11:53 < aho> i cant hear you
11:53 < aho> :v
11:53 < nsf> hehe, it's actually alive
11:53 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: if you want to make a new Foo with some members, use
Foo{3,5,6,255}
11:54 < nsf> there is a ms office access 2010
11:54 < jnwhiteh> wrtp: I need to make a slice with a given capacity/length
11:54 < jnwhiteh> looks like I can do make(Foo, 64, 64)
11:54 < jnwhiteh> or is that wrong?  =)
11:54 < nsf> you can
11:54 < wrtp> no, that's right
11:54 < nsf> but it makes no sense
11:54 < nsf> make(Foo, 64) is the same
11:54 < jnwhiteh> why does it make no sense?
11:54 < jnwhiteh> sure
11:55 < nsf> because len cannot be less than capacity :)
11:55 < jnwhiteh> so it hardly 'makes no sense', the third argument just
isn't necessary =)
11:55 < jnwhiteh> and I typed that, I'm not actually using that in the code,
so forgive me :P
11:55 < nsf> yeah
11:55 < nsf> more typing than necessary makes no sense
11:55 < nsf> that's what C++ programmer does most of the time
11:56 < nsf> just typing something which means nothing
11:56 < nsf> lol
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11:56 < jnwhiteh> doing this to make a 'Block' type that I can actually use
makes me a bit sad =)
11:56 < jnwhiteh> http://paste.pocoo.org/show/362027/
11:56 < jnwhiteh> but it'll work for me :p
11:57 < wrtp> a haskell or ML programmer would say that many of the types we
type in Go are superfluous :-)
11:57 < nsf> jnwhiteh: uhm, why are you doing this?
11:57 < jnwhiteh> nsf: why did I write it the way I did or why am I writing
it in the first place?
11:57 < nsf> why aren't you using type assertions
11:58 < nsf> take a look at go/ast
11:58 < nsf> code
11:58 < nsf> for example
11:58 < wrtp> that would be my question too
11:58 < nsf> if you need a certain hierarchy an empty function is enough
11:58 < nsf> and then type assertion
11:58 < nsf> like:
11:58 < nsf> var x Block = FullDataBlock{1, 2, 3}
11:59 < nsf> if _, isFullDataBlock := x.(FullDataBlock); isFullDataBlock {
...  }
11:59 < nsf> ugly but whatever
11:59 < jnwhiteh> I think what I have is less ugly for the calling code
11:59 < jnwhiteh> PutBlock() needs to take in a Block
11:59 < nsf> ah
11:59 < nsf> you have a NewBlock
11:59 < nsf> I see
11:59 < jnwhiteh> and the caller shouldn't have to do anything nasty to get
that.
12:00 < wrtp> nsf: i'd just do: if _, ok := x.(FullDataBlock); ok { ...  }
12:00 < nsf> wrtp: yeah
12:00 < nsf> that's what I meant
12:00 < nsf> :D
12:00 < jnwhiteh> the numeric block types are used throughout, so I need
them anyway
12:00 < jnwhiteh> so it makes sense to have the interface with a legitimate
function, no?
12:00 < nsf> your code is fine then
12:00 < nsf> I guess
12:00 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: i don't see that NewBlock is useful.  the caller
will probably need to type cast it to the expected type anyway
12:01 < jnwhiteh> wrtp: that's very true
12:01 < jnwhiteh> I hadn't gotten that far yet =)
12:01 < nsf> I have an idea of "interface unions"
12:02 < nsf> type X interface union { InterfaceA; InterfaceB; InterfaceC; }
12:02 < nsf> it will take all the methods of these interfaces
12:02 < wrtp> nsf: you can do that anyway
12:02 < nsf> and will create another interface
12:02 < nsf> which has a method set which is a union of these method sets
12:03 < wrtp> you can do that without the union keyword.  it just works
12:03 < nsf> uhm,
12:03 < nsf> ah, yes
12:03 < nsf> stupid idea, yeah
12:03 < wrtp> the problem comes if there are two methods with the same name
but different types
12:05 < jnwhiteh> wrtp: looking again (this is a port so not entirely my
design) NewBlock is mainly useful because it sizes the blocks appropriate based on
the filesystem context (i.e.  block size).  So the caller still needs to cast it,
but I can avoid having 10,000 instances of the calculations in my code.
12:05 < wrtp> if you're going to do unions, you need some way of
discriminating
12:05 < jnwhiteh> admittedly not a great benefit, but its worth it to me =)
12:06 < wrtp> jnwhiteh: couldn't you just put the calculations in a
function?
12:07 < jnwhiteh> I did, it's called NewBlock() =)
12:07 < wrtp> yeah, but that also allocates the block value, which the
calculation wouldn't need to do
12:07 < wrtp> it could just do the size calculation
12:07 < jnwhiteh> its either they do var bp InodeBlock =
NewBlock(INODE_BLOCK) or they do bp := make(InodeBlock, fs.super.inodes_per_block)
12:07 < jnwhiteh> sure, but the only time they're done is rogether
12:07 < jnwhiteh> together, rather.
12:08 < wrtp> i'm thinking more bp := NewInodeBlock()
12:08 < jnwhiteh> oh of course I could have six different constructors
12:08 < wrtp> and NewInodeBlock invokes the calculation function
12:09 < jnwhiteh> in practice it won't remove the need for the client cast,
though
12:09 < jnwhiteh> since the calling code is calling GetBlock()
12:09 < wrtp> no?
12:09 < jnwhiteh> which is general
12:09 < jnwhiteh> I don't want to deviate TOO far from the design right now
12:09 < jnwhiteh> lest I get too confused :P
12:09 < wrtp> i appreciate that :-)
12:09 < jnwhiteh> I've got the constructors written, but I'm waiting a bit
to refactor to use them :P
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12:11 < wrtp> BTW your implementation-checking can avoid allocation
completely: var _ Block = InodeBlock(nil)
12:12 < jnwhiteh> oh, neat
12:12 < jnwhiteh> thanks.
12:12 < nsf> I think compiler will ignore these new statements as well
12:12 < nsf> they have no side effects
12:12 < nsf> except taking a certain amount of memory
12:13 < wrtp> nsf: it could, but i don't know if it actually does
12:13 < nsf> but it's controlled by runtime
12:13 < wrtp> no i think it's controlled by the linker
12:13 < nsf> the memory?
12:14 < nsf> I was talking about the memory controlled by runtime, new has a
side effect only in that area
12:14 < nsf> 'new'*
12:14 < wrtp> if the linker was clever, it would remove the new statement
entirely
12:14 < wrtp> as it is, it does actually call new in that case
12:15 < wrtp> (i just checked)
12:16 < jnwhiteh> yeah I've changed it
12:16 < jnwhiteh> I just want the assertion, reall =)
12:17 < xyproto> what's the difference between uint8 and byte?
12:17 < nsf> none
12:17 < jnwhiteh> nothing
12:17 < xyproto> ok, thanks
12:17 < nsf> in fact it's the same type
12:17 < nsf> even though name looks different
12:17 < wrtp> xyproto: it's the only type alias in the entire go language...
12:18 < xyproto> wrtp: I see :)
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12:23 < skelterjohn> if I'm walking a go/ast tree using ast.Walk, how can I
tell the difference between 6, 8 and 11?  I think I could do it if I walk the tree
manually, but with ast.Walk it's not clear to me how to tell when I pop up from
the conditional
12:23 < skelterjohn> (the context is that I want to change the identifier
"place" when it refers to the package, but not when it's a declared variable)
12:24 < nsf> skelterjohn: you can do the following:
12:24 < nsf> first walker looks for an if statement
12:24 < nsf> then you start second walker for the body
12:24 < nsf> and you will see when it stopped
12:24 < skelterjohn> ah clever
12:25 < skelterjohn> probably why they have you return a walker instead of a
bool, too
12:25 < nsf> it's quite flexible, yeah
12:25 < skelterjohn> thanks
12:25 < wrtp> skelterjohn: what do you mean by 6, 8 and 11 ?
12:25 < skelterjohn> lines 6, 8 and 11 are all place.Bar()
12:25 < skelterjohn> but only 6 and 11 refer to the package
12:26 < wrtp> lines 6 8 and 11 of what?
12:26 < skelterjohn> whoah - i forgot to link the pastie
12:26 < skelterjohn> :)
12:26 < skelterjohn> http://pastebin.com/aiHpmCia
12:26 < skelterjohn> good on nsf for being able to answer anyway
12:26 < nsf> :)
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12:43 < xyproto> All the Go-OpenGL examples works great now, for the first
time ever (since I started checking go-hg + Go-SDL + Go-OpenGL periodically)
12:43 < xyproto> yey
12:45 < xyproto> aiju: you're behind Go-OpenGL, right?  Thanks!
12:48 < skelterjohn> thought that was banthar
12:48 < wrtp> xyproto: bet they still don't work on mac os...
12:49 < skelterjohn> i'd love it if an opengl pkg became a maintained part
of the core
12:49 < skelterjohn> but, a lot of work for the team to do that, obviously
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13:00 < xyproto> skelterjohn: I would also love it if opengl became part of
the core.
13:01 < xyproto> wrtp: it should work eventually, as both sdl and opengl
works for mac, doesn't it?
13:03 < skelterjohn> https://github.com/skelterjohn/gorf can move and rename
packages, now - i don't think i'll have time to finish renaming of types,
functions or fields today
13:04 < xyproto> skelterjohn: looks handy
13:05 < skelterjohn> plus it's fun to say gorf
13:12 < wrtp> xyproto: yes, but mac imposes all kinds of funny restrictions
on multithread access AFAIR
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13:20 < xyproto> wrtp: I see.  I've never tried Go on os x.  I could borrow
one to try it out, though.
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13:29 < JeroenD> I have a problem with SWIG dll's and Go on the windows
platform.  Does anyone where have experience with dll's and Go/Swig?
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13:32 < str1ngs> JeroenD: window swig support is not perfect from what I
read on the ML if you have a problem or bug try to report it if you can
13:34 < JeroenD> I know I have asked on the ML already and have had email
contact with Ian Lance Taylor but he is not all that familliar with the Windows
platform.
13:35 < JeroenD> It seems that one of the differences between dll and so
files that in order to link a dll all the symbols need to be resolved.
13:35 < JeroenD> So callback back go land like crosscall2 need to be
statically linked or declared in an exe/dll by name,
13:35 < str1ngs> do you need full function from the dll?  could use cgo to
gain access via C?
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13:39 < JeroenD> I am working on a wrapper for wxWidgets using SWIG.  SWIG
creates a dll with all the wx c++ code and the swig-go wrappers.  These wrappers
need to call crosscall2 to call from C++ to Go.
13:40 < JeroenD> In the example the function is declared as external and
present in the final executable by name.  But that way I can never change the
executable name or the dll wont load.
13:41 < JeroenD> Maybe there is a way to manually do the dll loading and
have it change the hard coded exe name to whatever exe is running?
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13:41 < JeroenD> I will also ask on StackOverflow maybe someone know a way
around this.
13:42 < aiju> 15:45 < xyproto> [14:48:55] aiju: you're behind
Go-OpenGL, right?  Thanks!
13:42 < aiju> no, what makes you think THAT?
13:43 < xyproto> aiju: I must have misunderstood, nvm then :)
13:43 < xyproto> aiju: but, you are involved with Go-OpenGL?
13:43 < aiju> not at all
13:44 < aiju> i hear of it just now ;P
13:44 < xyproto> aiju: then I have completely misunderstood.  Mea culpa.
13:44 < xyproto> :)
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13:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/OwkDkU by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/test/syntax/ -- test: match gccgo error messages for syntax/chan.go.
13:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d4abQY by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/test/syntax/ -- test: avoid undefined error in syntax/if.go.
13:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/PPJAdN by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 2 subdirs of
go/test/ -- test: adjust bugs/bug322 to match current spec.
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14:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/exqaOa by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/asn1/
-- asn1: extensions needed for parsing Kerberos
14:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/K4zJDA by [Mikkel Krautz] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/x509/ -- crypto/x509: Parse Extended Key Usage extension
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15:06 < kamaji> Dumb question: how do I dereference a pointer and make a
type assertion?
15:06 < kamaji> e.g.  "myVar.(string)" where myVar is a pointer to
interface?
15:06 < aiju> (*x).(string)?
15:06 < kamaji> didn't work :\
15:06 < aiju> what?
15:06 < aiju> or *(x.(*string))?
15:07 < kamaji> let me give that a shot
15:07 < kamaji> oh I could just assert *string...  yeah
15:07 < kamaji> fair point
15:07 < skelterjohn> either the interface is a pointer, or the internal
value is
15:08 < skelterjohn> if the interface is a pointer, then it's (*x).(string)
15:08 < skelterjohn> if the value is, it's x.(*string)
15:08 < skelterjohn> with the extra * at the beginning to then dereference
that string, like aiju said
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15:10 < kamaji> oh ok, I must have done it differently before
15:10 < kamaji> (*x).(string) is right
15:10 < kamaji> sorry aiju ~
15:11 < aiju> hey, i proposed both ;P
15:12 < kamaji> I meant sorry I doubted you the first time :D
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15:29 < kamaji> How do you create a new vector?
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15:30 < skelterjohn> if you mean container/vector, 1) do you really need to
use that type?  and 2) it's a []interface{}
15:30 < skelterjohn> so you can just convert an []interface{} to a Vector
15:30 < kamaji> I don't understand what's wrong with using it, I saw lots of
people saying it's "bad" but I don't really get why
15:31 < kamaji> If you need a resizable structure, what else is there?
15:31 < skelterjohn> slices
15:31 < skelterjohn> use append
15:31 < skelterjohn> myslice = append(myslice, newdata)
15:31 < kamaji> oh, that's built in?
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15:32 < skelterjohn> yes
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15:36 < kamaji> thanksh
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16:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YdtUcz by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/ -- CL 4291070: incorporating rsc's feedback
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17:04 < kamaji> Is there any way of reading and manipulating dates?
17:06 < kamaji> Time kinda works, but I can't find any timezone stuff
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17:06 < pharris> ls
17:06 < pharris> Oops.  Mistyped.
17:07 < skelterjohn> kamaji: Time.ZoneOffset, Time.Zone....
17:07 < skelterjohn> is that not what you're looking for?
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17:10 < taruti> is there an easy way to list all patches in codereview for
go?
17:13 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iHC6oa by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ --
ngotest: a new gotest command, written in Go.
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17:20 < kamaji> skelterjohn: herp derp :\
17:20 < skelterjohn> lol
17:20 < kamaji> yeah, I was ctrl+fing for timezone :\
17:20 < skelterjohn> ctrl-f is no substitute for reading
17:20 < kamaji> I think you should all stop answering my questions so I
learn that
17:20 < skelterjohn> i'll just answer them with RTFM a few times
17:22 < kamaji> ok :D
17:27 -!- bortzmeyer [~stephane@2a01:e35:8bd9:8bb0:2d53:b7e3:1049:dbd2] has joined
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17:28 < skelterjohn> though, i am certainly not without fault, in this
context
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17:44 < plexdev> http://is.gd/tgklcO by [Rob Pike] in
go/src/pkg/debug/gosym/ -- debug/gosym: remove need for gotest to run preparatory
commands.
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17:50 < kamaji> Is there something like a -> operator or do I have to do
(*record).field
17:50 < kamaji> WAIT DON'T ANSWER THAT
17:50 < skelterjohn> RTFM
17:50 < yebyen> skelterjohn: howdy
17:50 < skelterjohn> hi yebyen
17:50 <+iant> I was going to say something like that but kamaji explicitly
said not to answer
17:51 < kamaji> I remembered just in time
17:51 < skelterjohn> :)
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18:09 < kamaji> Shouldn't strings.Join take a Stringer instead of a String?
18:10 < skelterjohn> RTFM
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18:10 < skelterjohn> hehe
18:10 < kamaji> lol
18:10 < kamaji> are you just waiting for me to ask questions now?
18:10 < skelterjohn> jk - the string type isn't a Stringer, so that would be
inconvenient for most cases
18:10 < kamaji> it's nto!?
18:10 < kamaji> not*
18:10 < skelterjohn> built-in types have no methods
18:10 < kamaji> oh right
18:10 < skelterjohn> "hi".String() doesn't work
18:10 < kamaji> i'll write my own!  with blackjack!  and hookers!
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18:11 < kamaji> func JoinWithBlackjackAndHookers([]Stringer, sep string)
string {} here I come
18:11 < skelterjohn> the sep should be a Stringer too
18:12 < kamaji> wouldn't that be less useful?
18:12 < skelterjohn> o_O
18:12 < kamaji> well it's not often you want to pass an object as a sep, is
it?
18:12 < skelterjohn> no less useful than having the other params as
Stringers?
18:13 < skelterjohn> it's not often that i want to pass anything to a
strings function other than a string
18:13 < kamaji> well it's not going in a library so nobody will know my
shame
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18:29 < kamaji> I've discovered that postfixing all your comments with "LIKE
A BOSS" makes coding at least 64% more fun
18:30 < Namegduf> Sounds like a solid argument in favour of a new Go idiom
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18:30 < kamaji> I think it should be required by the compiler
18:31 < kamaji> "Comments must meet a minimum level of fun"
18:31 < skelterjohn> all my comments satisfy that criterion
18:31 < aiju> 20:14 < kamaji> func
JoinWithBlackjackAndHookers([]Stringer, sep string) string {} here I come
18:31 < skelterjohn> i don't write comments
18:31 < aiju> haha fuck yeah
18:31 < kamaji> skelterjohn: lol
18:31 < kamaji> Can we get a -funpolice switch for 6g?
18:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/nZf4xL by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: David
Forsythe (individual CLA)
18:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/pWMYPq by [David Forsythe] in go/src/pkg/os/
-- os: fix FileInfo.Name returned by Stat
18:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aJWjEJ by [Alexey Borzenkov] in
go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: move bind back to sock.go
18:32 < plexdev> http://is.gd/R3azTf by [Albert Strasheim] in
go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: StartProcess Chroot and Credential.
18:32 < skelterjohn> Namegduf: I have found reason to use the Factory
pattern in some code i'm writing
18:32 < skelterjohn> and i'm looking for a way to avoid it
18:32 < zozoR> encode_base64 <-- anyone know the go version of this C
call?
18:32 < skelterjohn> C.encode_base64
18:33 < Namegduf> Hmmm.
18:33 < zozoR> haha, doesnt count skelterjohn :P
18:33 < zozoR> oh, there is a package called base65
18:34 < zozoR> 64*
18:34 < zozoR> i think its a never mind then
18:34 < kamaji> base65 would be a hilarious package
18:34 < Namegduf> skelterjohn: Sounds like the right thing to do.  If it
turns out there isn't a better way, then you've considered it and it actually is
needed.
18:34 < kamaji> that definitely works with the -funpolice switch
18:34 < aiju> kamaji: there is base96
18:34 < Namegduf> I tend to think it's a flow of control issue
18:34 < kamaji> aiju: I've never even heard of that being used :D
18:34 < aiju> kamaji: i know it is being used
18:34 < Namegduf> But sometimes you need a slightly more complex flow of
control for some stuff
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18:35 < kamaji> that's awesome
18:35 < aiju> after all, base64 was designed with EBCDIC compatibility in
mind ;P
18:35 < skelterjohn> it's kind of like A invokes B invokes C, A and C can
change, but B will always be the same.  So, I'm going to have A give B a CFactory
18:35 < skelterjohn> and it's going to have a very long type name
18:36 < aiju> kamaji: according to some random web page, base96 is used in
PDF
18:36 < skelterjohn> pdf is a very unfortunately standard
18:36 < aiju> skelterjohn: you should work on your language
18:36 < Namegduf> skelterjohn: Ew. :(
18:36 < aiju> "pdf is a POS" is a good start
18:36 < skelterjohn> aha
18:36 < kamaji> apparently the adobe PDF reader has its own mail server
18:36 < skelterjohn> i wasn't sure where you were going with that
18:37 < aiju> haha
18:37 < aiju> adobe PDF reader has everything and their mother built in
18:37 < kamaji> it has a built-in PDF reader
18:37 < skelterjohn> it's stupidly slow
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18:38 < kamaji> worse than emacs.
18:38 < aiju> are there people actually using it?  ;P
18:38 < kamaji> aiju: Yes, but they're still waiting for their PDFs to open
18:38 < skelterjohn> djvu is better
18:38 < kamaji> so we haven't heard from them
18:38 < skelterjohn> but barely anyone has even heard of it
18:38 < kamaji> that weird format?
18:38 < kamaji> it's super small iirc
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18:38 < steven> KHAAAAAN!
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18:39 < kamaji> THOSE KLINGON BASTARDS KILLED MY SON
18:39 < kamaji> oh I misquoted :(
18:40 < aiju> djvu is not a pdf replacement
18:40 < aiju> djvu is only for *scans*
18:41 < aiju> (and it's a very good format for that)
18:41 < aiju> but it has no support for vector graphics whatsoever
18:42 < jumzi> nor javascript :(
18:42 < skelterjohn> is that right?  i was misinformed
18:42 < jumzi> or flash
18:44 < kamaji> and it doesn't have a mail server
18:44 < nsf> djvu is a compression format for black and white scanned
documents
18:44 < nsf> no OCR or anything
18:45 < aiju> nsf: there is a OCR layer
18:45 < nsf> ah, yes
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18:48 < dforsyth> yay they took my change \o/
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19:19 < saml> hey is this web scale?
19:19 < uriel> dforsyth: congrats
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19:21 < Namegduf> Yes, this web scale.
19:21 < saml> nice.  i like web scale
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19:49 < plexdev> http://is.gd/0Q13zo by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/cipher/ -- crypto/cipher: bad CTR IV length now triggers panic
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20:06 < plexdev> http://is.gd/P6Ae6H by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ --
ngotest: correctly handle packages with tests outside the package.
20:06 < plexdev> http://is.gd/1kYP2O by [Rob Pike] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/cmd/ -- gotry: move into its own directory, separate from gotest.
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20:08 < skelterjohn> preview of a refactoring tool i'm working on:
https://github.com/skelterjohn/gorf
20:09 < skelterjohn> it can move packages around, change their names, and
change the names of types, functions, and global vars and consts
20:09 < skelterjohn> don't run it on anything you care about, unless you
back it up first
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20:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/omnkeZ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/govet/ --
govet: fix bug introduced at 4313054
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20:39 < plexdev> http://is.gd/kIflZn by [Rob Pike] in 3 subdirs of go/src/
-- gotest: replace the shell script with the compiled program written in go.
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21:11 < plexdev> http://is.gd/qd4gqZ by [Rob Pike] in 2 subdirs of go/src/
-- prints: fix a couple of formatting errors caught by govet
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21:31 < crazy1be> hmm i'm getting wierd errors now
21:31 < crazy1be> session.go:18: import
/home/justin/go/pkg/linux_386/util/http.a: object is [linux 386 release.2011-02-24
7569] expected [linux 386 release.r56 7666]
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21:34 < pharris> crazy1be: gomake clean
21:35 < crazy1be> pharris: i was afraid of that :/
21:35 < pharris> crazy1be: It's telling you that your project has stale
object files.  Not go itself (probably).
21:36 < crazy1be> oh well i did gomake clean on my project and it still has
the issue :/
21:36 < pharris> That's… odd.
21:36 < crazy1be> hmm maybe i'm doing it wrong
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21:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eEFgoX by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/tls/ -- crypto/tls: extend NPN support to the client.
21:59 < skelterjohn> evening
22:10 < skelterjohn> what's the standard way to do relative imports?  if i
want to import a nested package located in "./nested", if that nested package has
a standard makefile, the .a file will go to ./nested/_obj/nested.a, requiring a
relative import path of "./nested/_obj/nested"
22:11 < skelterjohn> anyone here who has done stuff with nested pkgs know
what the standard way to handle this is?
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22:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dLJrOj by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 3 subdirs of
go/test/ -- test: adjust bug324 to expect run-time failure, not compile-time.
22:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/shxBgP by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/test/interface/ -- test: add test for interfaces with unexported methods.
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22:17 < krutcha> skelter: I think the only thing I've done is install the
nested package, then import it from the default location
22:19 < skelterjohn> right, my solution has been to install the nested
package locally, and just never use relative paths
22:19 < skelterjohn> but i don't want my refactoring tool to be useless for
these sorts of imports
22:20 < krutcha> yeah I'd be curious to know a good way to do that also
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23:01 < steven> heh, win 3.11 in javascript:
http://www.michaelv.org.nyud.net/
23:02 < aconran__> hah steven;
http://dev.sencha.com/deploy/dev/examples/desktop/desktop.html
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23:03 < steven> niice
23:06 < TheSeeker> minesweeper in the js win3.11 doesn't work.  :(
23:06 < steven> it did for me
23:06 < steven> took a min to load
23:06 < TheSeeker> beginner might, but expert fails badly :/
23:09 < TheSeeker> lol youtube media player.
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23:19 < jnwhiteh> yay, my paper was accepted!
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23:28 < skelterjohn> grats!
23:29 < skelterjohn> what conference?
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23:59 < dforsyth> skelterjohn: gorf looks cool
--- Log closed Wed Mar 30 00:00:50 2011