--- Log opened Thu Mar 31 00:00:50 2011
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00:09 < skelterjohn> evening
00:10 < dfc> mornin'
00:11 < crazy2be> how can you make a go makefile have two command targets?
00:12 < crazy2be> (with different files for each)
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00:12 < dfc> crazy2be: put them in two seperate directories
00:12 < dfc> you can do it yourself
00:12 < dfc> but the go way is
00:12 < dfc> one directory, one package, one makefile
00:12 < dfc> either pkg or cmd
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00:13 < crazy2be> so how do i make the makefile that tells make to compile
the contents of both directories?
00:13 < exch> crazy2be: like this
https://github.com/jteeuwen/go-example-multipkg/blob/master/Makefile
00:19 < str1ngs> exch: I'm stalking you on github now :P
00:20 < str1ngs> kitten looks cool
00:21 < exch> thanks.  Im excited about it.  It's a realy brain teaser
00:21 < exch> currently seeig how to imlpement a static stack checker that
can deal with Row Polymorphism
00:21 < exch> minus all the typos -.-
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00:24 < str1ngs> exch: can you interface kitten from go?
00:24 < exch> that's the idea
00:24 < str1ngs> oh dude
00:24 < str1ngs> I've been looking for something like this
00:25 < str1ngs> basically a DSL of sorts
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00:28 < yebyen> what is kitten?
00:28 < exch> https://github.com/jteeuwen/kitten
00:29 < yebyen> that makefile is pretty sweet
00:30 < yebyen> factor fan!
00:30 < yebyen> nice
00:30 < exch> \o/
00:30 < exch> I love it
00:30 < yebyen> did you read the article about fast-now on planet factor not
too long ago?
00:30 < exch> dont think I have
00:31 < yebyen> ooh they are covering bitcoin now
00:32 < yebyen> it was a neat article, i am not sure it was real, since the
concept seemed kind of impossible
00:32 < exch> this one?  http://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/03/fast-now.html
00:32 < yebyen> yes you found it
00:32 < exch> cool.  I'll have a read
00:33 < yebyen> i think it's only impossible if you need to call now to call
nano-count
00:33 < yebyen> which i guess is the point of nano-count
00:35 < yebyen> i love it when you find something that just takes too long
to do 1000 times in a tight loop
00:35 < exch> indeed
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01:19 < str1ngs> oh oh I don't think archive/tar supports long links
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02:00 < katakuna> is there a dial.Write(string) method?  or is
dial.Write(bytes.NewBufferString("a string").Bytes()) the most efficient way to
write
02:02 < Namegduf> katakuna: There might be a .WriteString(string)
02:03 < Namegduf> Go does not have method overloading
02:03 < Namegduf> If there wasn't, you'd have to use []byte(string)
02:04 < katakuna> no WriteString, buy []byte(string) was what i was looking
for, thanks
02:06 < katakuna> does Write automatically write to stream, or does it need
flushing?
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02:15 < katakuna> started looking at go like 4 hours ago, still clueless as
far as the syntax of it goes :p
02:18 < skelterjohn> where are you coming from?
02:19 < steven> guys
02:20 < steven> if you were writing a web application in Go and you wanted
to deploy it to a production server, would you compile it locally and push the
binary up to the server, or push the code up to the server and build it remotely
and run it there?
02:21 < steven> on a related note, im considering using git as the
deployment tool, which means the source will most likely be on the server anyway.
02:21 < katakuna> skelterjohn: java mostly, I've touched things like python
before, but never really got into it
02:21 < str1ngs> steven: if the source is on the server and you dont mind
the bloat of gcc etc.  then ya just build on the server.
02:21 < exch> steven: Go can do cross compilation if the server is a
different platform.  No real need to send the source to the server
02:22 < katakuna> just wondering guys, is there a window toolkit for go
apart from the very basic gtk-go ?
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02:22 < Namegduf> Go won't be able to cross compile without a GCC
crosscompilation setup soon enough
02:22 < str1ngs> what really?
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02:23 < Namegduf> Due to including C stuff.
02:23 < Namegduf> Linking against libc and such.
02:24 < exch> katakuna: as far as I know, the gtk bindings are the most
mature ones out there.  Not sure any others exist
02:24 < str1ngs> Namegduf: you sure you dont just mean cgo?
02:24 < katakuna> k
02:24 < plexdev> http://is.gd/yibCdf by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ --
fmt: remove uintptrGetter type checks
02:24 < Namegduf> No, I don't.
02:24 < plexdev> http://is.gd/w5Hagt by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gopack/ --
gopack: add P flag to remove prefix from filename information
02:24 < Namegduf> There was a recent post to the mailing list on said topic.
02:24 < exch> katakuna: some people (ncluding me) chose to use a web
frontend for the UI and use Go as a webserver backend
02:24 < str1ngs> Namegduf: ah that sucks I kinda like how easy it is to
build for say osx etc
02:24 < katakuna> is there <- is there something I'm doing wrong here
thats giving me an EOF?
02:25 < katakuna> uh, http://pastebin.com/e4hkkNLW <- is there somsething
wrong here
02:25 < katakuna> it gives EOF at the read section
02:26 < str1ngs> katakuna: os.EOF may not mean eror just that its reached
the end of the data
02:26 < katakuna> ah i know what it is
02:27 < katakuna> I've put != instead of == for the error checking
02:27 < katakuna> (it's 3:30am, i only have myself to blame really)
02:27 < str1ngs> katakuna: != nil is right
02:27 < str1ngs> katakuna: you might need to account for os.EOF though
02:28 < str1ngs> ie if err !=nil && err != os.EOF
02:28 < exch> you are also passing a 0-length slice into Read
02:28 < exch> so it will read 0 bytes
02:28 < steven> exch: well i need to send more than just a binary to the
server.  there are scripts which manage the server cluster, config files, etc.
02:28 < katakuna> yeah exch, I wasn't sure how exactly to read
02:28 < steven> so i would need to deploy those anyway, and they would
probably be under version control
02:29 < katakuna> i thought []byte would be like an unlimited array, so it
would read until buffer was empty
02:29 < katakuna> is there like a sock.avail() which returns how much is
ready to be read?
02:29 < exch> 'var data []byte' creates a nil-slice..  it is a valid slice,
but has 0 length and 0 capacity
02:30 < exch> data := make([]byte, 512) creates a slice that can hold 512
bytes.  If you pass that to Read(), it will block until 512 bytes are read, or
something does go horribly wrong with the connection
02:30 < Namegduf> Actually
02:31 < Namegduf> It'll block until it either has read 512 or it has read
everything available
02:31 < Namegduf> If net.Conn waited until the maximum buffer size was read
it might be bad for handling shorter messages
02:32 < exch> true
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02:38 < exch> katakuna: http://pastebin.com/dDnbUFgU this is probably more
along the lines of what you are after
02:39 < exch> for the IRC connection, the ReadBytes('\n') just reads a
single message from the stream
02:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/x901h3 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gopack/ --
gopack: comment out debugging print
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02:53 < saml> hey, i don't get 8g when I do ./all.bash
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03:12 < str1ngs> doh he left
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03:17 < dforsyth> lol that saml guy
03:17 < dforsyth> he is a troll
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03:20 < str1ngs> glad he left I would have got trolled..  I R naive
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03:22 < dforsyth> when he comes back tell him you love clouds and scaling
03:22 < dforsyth> if he is in troll mode it will be amusing
03:23 < dforsyth> s/when/if/
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04:29 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Mdobtn by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ --
gotest: another try at flags.
04:29 < plexdev> http://is.gd/KIDKaV by [Alexey Borzenkov] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- net, syscall: fix windows build
04:31 < evanx> how can i convertt io.readcloser to string?
04:32 < edsrzf> First, are you sure that's what you want to do?
04:32 < exch> not sure that makes any sense really
04:32 < edsrzf> Yeah, that's why I asked.
04:33 < edsrzf> It can be done, but I'm not sure it'll be the best way to do
something.
04:34 < evanx> i am using http.Get and want to pass the responce to xml for
parsing
04:35 < edsrzf> Most xml functions take an io.Reader
04:35 < edsrzf> xml.Unmarshal and xml.NewParser both do
04:37 < exch> You should be able to pass response.Body to the xml functions
as-is
04:37 < exch> Just be sure yuo close it manually when you're done with it
04:37 < evanx> ok perfect and say i wanted to print responce.Body, how would
i go about that
04:38 < edsrzf> io.Copy(os.Stdout, response.Body)
04:38 < evanx> sorry for the lame questoins just having a hard time learning
this...  :D
04:38 < edsrzf> But realize that doing that will consume everything in the
response's body
04:38 < edsrzf> No problem, that's what the channel's here for.
04:38 < exch> np, thats what we are here for :)
04:38 < exch> doh
04:38 < edsrzf> :)
04:38 < evanx> well thanks :D
04:38 < evanx> ill give it shot
04:39 < evanx> im sure ill be back soon...
04:41 < evanx> wicked thatworked perfectly!
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07:49 < sambatyon> hi guys.  I am kind of entusiast about compilers and I
finally decided to get into it, so I decided that Go language would be a nice
place to check a real compiler working.  I was wondering if some can help me
understand how the compiler is orgnized.  So far, it seems that the core of the
language is in cmd directory.  Inside there are multiple bison files, so I don't
now where to start following the compilation processs
07:53 < str1ngs> sambatyon: I dont know much about the boot strapping
process .but if you check src/make.bash that should lead you along
07:53 < str1ngs> sambatyon: they may not be much help I know
07:54 < nsf> sambatyon: also checkout iant's gofrontend (go frontend for
gcc), it has a nice paper that reveals some of the internals of the frontend:
http://golang.org/doc/talks/gofrontend-gcc-summit-2010.pdf
07:54 < nsf> the source code of the frontend is here:
http://code.google.com/p/gofrontend/
07:54 < nsf> as well as in gcc's trunk and 4.6 release
07:55 < sambatyon> thank you guys
07:55 < nsf> I think it's more readable than 6g/8g
07:56 < edsrzf> sambatyon: the platform-indepent parts of the compiler
compiler are under src/cmd/gc
07:57 < edsrzf> platform-independent*
07:57 < edsrzf> sambatyon: the platform-dependent parts are under
src/cmd/{5, 6, 8}g
08:00 < sambatyon> that makes a lot of sense now
08:01 < sambatyon> I will try to make sense of those folders.  My intention
is to eventually become a contributor of the project.  Either here or in the gcc
front end
08:02 < edsrzf> There are lots of places to contribute in both of them.
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08:23 < wrtp> sambatyon: a good place to start is in src/cmd/gc/go.y
08:25 < wrtp> personally i wouldn't look at the gcc stuff because the whole
thing is 1000 times more heavy weight than gc.  but it's true that gc isn't
internally documented very well.
08:34 < wrtp> for example, the gcc go frontend code is > 44000 lines of
code and that doesn't include any code generation or optimisation stuff AFAIK.
the entire gc source is ~32000 lines of code.
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09:55 < sambatyon> wrtp: Ok, then I would focus mostly in the gc part, since
I am interested in the optimization part
09:56 < wrtp> sambatyon: you should also look at the linker then, because
there's optimisation there too.
10:07 < jokoon> hello
10:08 < jokoon> anything new about win32 binary compilers ?
10:08 < jokoon> I mean binary release
10:10 < wrtp> sambatyon: you should read this too, as the go compiler has
family ties to the plan 9 compiler
10:16 < sambatyon> wrtp: I read something about the Plan 9 compiler, but by
"this too" are you refering to the linker?
10:20 < wrtp> sorry, i forgot to paste the link:
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/compiler.html
10:20 < sambatyon> np
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11:15 < uriel> sambatyon: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/new_c_compilers/
11:17 < ww> uriel: another one for the pure go libs,
https://bitbucket.org/okfn/goautoneg
11:17 < ww> HTTP Content-Type Negotiation
11:17 < ww> i.e.  parse the Accept header and give the best match from a set
of alternative mime types
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11:44 < uriel> ww: cool, added it, and remind me some time (when I have
spare time, hah) to talk to you about the OKF, I'm quite interested
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11:58 < zimsim> Hei go-nuts: How do I pass a slice of type T to a func which
takes a ...  parameter of type interface{}?
11:59 < zimsim> if foo is: func foo(args ...interface{}) {}
11:59 < zimsim> how can i pass a slice of []int{1, 2} to that func
11:59 < nsf> zimsim: if you want to unwrap it you can't do that without
magic
11:59 < xyproto> zimsim: I know, I stumbled upon that exact problem :)
12:00 < nsf> you need to convert your slice to []interface{} first
12:00 < xyproto> zimsim: you can convert the []int to interfaces
12:00 < zimsim> right
12:00 < xyproto> yes, like nsf said
12:00 < zimsim> but you would have to do that, one element at a time
12:00 < xyproto> zimsim: here's a function that will do the conversion for
you:
12:00 < nsf> zimsim: yes
12:00 < wrtp> zimsim: you could just pass it anyway
12:00 < wrtp> after all a slice of type T is compatible with interface{}
12:00 < wrtp> depends what you want to do
12:01 < wrtp> is it a Print function you're trying to pass it to?
12:01 < xyproto> zimsim: http://go.pastie.org/1739105
12:02 < zimsim> wrtp: yep.
12:02 < xyproto> zimsim: then you can call your function like this:
ZimzimFunction(NumbersToInterfaces(numbers)...)
12:02 < wrtp> zimsim: fmt.Print([]int{4,65,7,7}) works
12:02 < wrtp> depends what output you want though
12:02 < zimsim> xyproto: thats the thing I came up with as well
12:02 < xyproto> zimsim: oh, ok
12:02 < zimsim> But I thought there had to be a better way
12:03 < xyproto> zimsim: then I think the answer is that interface{} isn't
always super-comfy to work with.  The price of a non-dynamic language, I guess.
12:05 < wrtp> xyproto, zimsim: this is slightly more idiomatic
12:05 < wrtp> http://go.pastie.org/1739120
12:05 < xyproto> wrtp: I like your version better.  Thank you.
12:07 < wrtp> another alternative is just to call the Print function one
time for each element in the array
12:07 < zimsim> wrtp: thanks for the pasties
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12:07 < wrtp> np
12:07 < zimsim> well, its somewhat of a edge-case
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12:10 < wrtp> depends what you're calling the print function for really -
for logging or for a particular output
12:13 < zimsim> Well, I want a particular output, and its somewhat essential
that the varg len is correct
12:13 < zimsim> Usually I just call the function with foo("SEND", "hello",
1)
12:13 < zimsim> but in my tests I had the args wrapped within a []string{}
12:15 < zimsim> Anyway, thanks for the quick suggestions.  Seems I'm not the
only one which has encountered this case.
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12:31 * wrtp wishes that close of a closed channel was a no-op
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12:38 < ww> uriel: thanks.  and happy to talk about okf any time.  also most
times we are in irc://irc.oftc.net/okfn
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12:50 < kimelto> mmh I have a trailing comma in the code since ages and the
parser does not mind :)
12:50 < kimelto> os.Open("cache", os.O_WRONLY|os.O_CREAT, 0666, )
12:51 < skelterjohn> that's right - trailing commas are allowed
12:51 < wrtp> it's so you can split args across multiple lines
12:51 < wrtp> same as trailing commas in array initialisers
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12:52 < zimsim> Actually, they are a must sometimes
12:52 < skelterjohn> that way you can have multi-line lists without fooling
the semi-colon insertion rule
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13:02 < wrtp> i don't think they're a must at any time - you can always put
the last bracket on the same line.  but it's nicer to allow trailing commas
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13:03 < skelterjohn> wrtp: any chance of your type checker identifying
packages in selectors?  :)
13:04 < nsf> wrtp: you can't do that 100% without parsing .a files
13:04 < nsf> because default package name is in .a
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13:04 < nsf> e.g.
13:04 < nsf> import "fmt"
13:04 < skelterjohn> nsf: it's also in the source...
13:04 < wrtp> nsf: sure you can.  the path is unique.
13:04 < nsf> fmt.Printf can be an error
13:05 < nsf> if the default package name and package file name mismatch
13:05 < skelterjohn> his type checker grabs the fmt source
13:05 < nsf> ah
13:05 < nsf> then ok
13:05 < zimsim> wrtp: you're right, I always thought you had to add the
trailing comma, never tried to just bump the bracket ...
13:05 < skelterjohn> but my question to wrtp remains :)
13:05 < wrtp> skelterjohn: i'm not sure quite what you mean by identifying
packages in selectors
13:05 < skelterjohn> zimsim: bumping the bracket is ugly
13:06 < skelterjohn> if i have a type T in smoe package
13:06 < nsf> wrtp: 'fmt.Printf' he wants to know the type of fmt
13:06 < skelterjohn> and in another package i have a var x mypkg.T
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13:06 < wrtp> skelterjohn: both T's will have the same object
13:07 < skelterjohn> i'm renaming the pkg right now
13:07 < skelterjohn> but i just noticed the T had no type associated with
it, so it's possible i am doing something wrong
13:07 < wrtp> the T itself won't, but the expression mypkg.T will
13:08 < wrtp> you have to run ExprType on the whole SelectorExpr as usual
13:08 < skelterjohn> it doesn't, so maybe my importer isn't working
13:08 < wrtp> that's possible.  i'd be surprised if that wasn't working,
because it correctly found objects for all selectors in $GOROOT/src...
13:09 < wrtp> skelterjohn: you can use DefaultImporter
13:09 < skelterjohn> i have a custom importer
13:09 < wrtp> and put a wrapper round it to do package caching to speed
things up
13:09 < wrtp> if you want
13:09 < skelterjohn> because in thei case, mypkg is located in ./place
13:09 < skelterjohn> and imported as "place"
13:10 < skelterjohn> http://pastebin.com/sx3jgfVu
13:10 < skelterjohn> my importer
13:10 < skelterjohn> a lot of machinery in that comes from elsewhere,
unfortunately
13:11 < wrtp> skelterjohn: i presume you're importing
rog-go.googlecode.com/exp/go/parser not the regular parser?
13:13 < skelterjohn> but it is parsing the right source files (put in some
prints to check)
13:13 < wrtp> you're definitely importing the right parser?
13:14 < skelterjohn> yeah it's definitely returning the right *ast.Package
object that contains the type in question
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13:16 < wrtp> skelterjohn: no, i mean in your source code, you're doing the
correct import, yes?  because importing "go/parser" won't work, although the
symptoms might be similar to what you're seeing
13:17 < wrtp> skelterjohn: could you paste the whole source file with the
importer in?
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13:21 < skelterjohn> apparently my connection is being flakey
13:21 < skelterjohn> sorry - i missed anything you said after "if you want",
wrtyp
13:21 < skelterjohn> wrtp
13:22 < wrtp> ok
13:22 < wrtp> repeat:
13:22 < wrtp> member:skelterjohn: no, i mean in your source code, you're
doing the correct import, yes?  because importing "go/parser" won't work, although
the symptoms might be similar to what you're seeing
13:22 < wrtp> member:skelterjohn: could you paste the whole source file with
the importer in?
13:23 < wrtp> and the first msg:
13:23 < wrtp> member:skelterjohn: i presume you're importing
rog-go.googlecode.com/exp/go/parser not the regular parser?
13:23 < skelterjohn> oh
13:23 < skelterjohn> no, i was using the regular parser
13:23 < wrtp> ah, that'll be the reasobn
13:23 < wrtp> s/bn/n
13:23 < skelterjohn> only have to change import paths, right?
13:23 < wrtp> yes
13:23 < wrtp> i should mention that it the documentation
13:23 < wrtp> s/it/in
13:24 < skelterjohn> still not working...  i'll construct a minimized
example
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13:25 < wrtp> that would be helpful
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13:32 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vODF2Nw/2011-03-31-193609_924x354_scrot.png
13:32 < nsf> beginning of the type system :P
13:33 < wrtp> those error messages aren't going to work with proportionally
spaced fonts :-)
13:34 < nsf> doesn't matter
13:34 < nsf> there is one function that does the formatting, it's easy to
alter it
13:35 < nsf> or simply remove those hint, leaving only the position and text
13:35 < electro_> So i have an array of structs, how would i add objects to
the end of that array without knowing how many objects are in there already?
13:35 < nsf> hints*
13:35 < nsf> electro_: if you have a slice of structs: var x []MyStruct;
13:36 < nsf> you can add an item to that slice using the following built-in
function:
13:36 < nsf> x = append(x, MyStruct{1, 2, 3, 4})
13:36 < electro_> ah right, thank you very much
13:38 < skelterjohn> wrtp: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4564102/rogtest.tgz
13:39 < skelterjohn> (i need to take a shower so i can get to campus on
time)
13:39 < skelterjohn> but the selector for place.Type isn't given any type
information
13:40 < wrtp> skelterjohn: that url doesn't work for me
13:40 < wrtp> i get a 404
13:40 < wrtp> you could email it direct if you like
13:41 < skelterjohn> and come to think of it - ExprType isn't invoking the
importer i passed to it - otherwise i would have had a print indicating which
source files were parsed in the middle of the traversal
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13:41 < wrtp> skelterjohn: the dropbox link doesn't work for me
13:41 < wrtp> are you seeing this?
13:42 * wrtp hates it when IRC turns unreliable
13:42 < wrtp> is anyone else seeing this?
13:43 < wrtp> hello?
13:43 < exch> gives a 404
13:43 < wrtp> ta
13:43 < wrtp> if in doubt, look at the logs :-)
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13:44 < nsf> :)
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13:48 < nsf> http://www.programming-languages.co.uk/crl.html
13:48 < nsf> :\
13:48 * nsf is thinking about a better name for his language
13:48 < nsf> I thought about CRL
13:48 < nsf> CRPL maybe (C-like Raw Programming Language)
13:49 < nsf> ugly
13:49 < exch> kitten is not actually in that list
13:50 < wrtp> nsf: how about "Sea"
13:50 < nsf> wrtp: sounds nice, but I don't know
13:50 < skelterjohn> hmm - got kicked again
13:50 < wrtp> skelterjohn: thought so
13:51 < wrtp> skelterjohn: that URL didn't work for me
13:51 < wrtp> i got a 404
13:51 < skelterjohn> try again - dropbox might not have uploaded it yet
13:51 < nsf> it almost like a synonim to a vacation, not a good name for a
programmer's tool
13:51 < skelterjohn> but it works now
13:51 < wrtp> nsf: or "seed".  half way between C (see) and D ...
13:52 < nsf> interesting
13:52 < skelterjohn> how about nsfc
13:52 < nsf> I like that one
13:52 < nsf> skelterjohn: no
13:52 < wrtp> yup works ok
13:52 < nsf> it should be person-less
13:53 < skelterjohn> you can say it came on a grant from the NSF
13:53 < nsf> haha
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13:54 < nsf> I like the word 'seed', it has a bit of philosophy as well,
like a solid base for growth or something
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13:54 < nsf> but it reminds me one cartoon character
13:54 < nsf> Sid
13:54 < nsf> from ice age
13:55 < nsf> and he isn't exactly smart :)
13:55 < nsf> almost like an opposite of smart
13:55 < nsf> :D
13:55 < skelterjohn> programming languages don't have to be smart
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13:55 < skelterjohn> in fact, i prefer it if they leave the thinking to me
13:56 < nsf> anyways, I'm open to any name proposals
13:56 < aiju> for your language?
13:56 < nsf> yeah
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13:57 < nsf> so far: 'sea', 'seed'
13:57 < nsf> 'crawl' is a WIP name
13:57 < aiju> P
13:57 < nsf> crawl actually is nice, because it points out that it comes
from Go
13:58 < aiju> in reference to the old joke about the succesor of C
13:58 < nsf> and you can read it as an abbrev: CRawL (C-like Raw
(programming) Language)
13:58 < nsf> and of course Crawling is slower than Going
13:59 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@116.26.141.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
13:59 < nsf> but you can move through different kinds of surfaces that way,
lol
13:59 < nsf> although Going isn't Walking
13:59 < nsf> hm..
14:00 < nsf> E programming language :)
14:00 < aiju> P has another nice side
14:00 < nsf> or, well, another interesting idea comes from cyrillic letter
14:00 < aiju> P'ing as a verb ;P
14:00 < nsf> Ъ programming language
14:00 < aiju> C looks like the coptic sigma
14:00 < aiju> so you should call your language sigma
14:00 < nsf> aiju: hehe
14:01 < nsf> the tricky part with Ъ, that it's an unreadable letter
14:01 < nsf> :)
14:01 < aiju> go UTF-8
14:01 < aiju> the 卐 programming language
14:01 < nsf> hehe
14:01 < exch> :P
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14:02 < nsf> your font sucks
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14:02 < nsf> :P
14:02 < wrtp> nsf: Went ?
14:02 < nsf> wrtp: is it a name proposal?  :)
14:02 < wrtp> yeah
14:02 < nsf> I don't know
14:02 < wrtp> neither do i - just throwing some names out
14:02 < nsf> sounds like, "I've been there, thank you"
14:02 < nsf> :D
14:03 < xyproto> nsf: what is your most marketable feature for your
language?  :)
14:03 < aiju> nsf: ire
14:03 < nsf> xyproto: C compatibility
14:03 < nsf> and simplicity
14:03 < aiju> call it C flat
14:03 < wrtp> nsf: what about Cog ?
14:03 < aiju> call it Gimel!
14:03 < nsf> hehe
14:04 < nsf> "The programming language used in the Star Wars Jedi Knight:
Dark Forces II and Star Wars Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith video games"
14:04 < nsf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cog
14:04 < xyproto> nsf: then I would call it: csimp, c-compat,
seecompatilicity or just shrimp
14:04 < aiju> いく (to go)!
14:04 < nsf> 'see' is a nice name
14:04 < nsf> :D
14:05 < wrtp> you can't call it See or Sea because the pronunciation is
identical to C...
14:05 < nsf> yeah
14:05 < nsf> would be confusing
14:05 < xyproto> "seaplusplus"
14:05 < aiju> C += 1
14:05 < nsf> cinc
14:06 < xyproto> how about finding a mascot first, like gopher or glenda,
and then name the language?  :)
14:06 < xyproto> must have worked for caml?
14:06 < aiju> hahaha
14:06 < xyproto> ;)
14:06 < xyproto> like a line-drawing of a walrus, then call it walley ;)
14:07 < aiju> use yersinia pestis as a mascot
14:08 < nsf> ok, I'll be back to that topic later
14:08 < wrtp> i quite liked cog
14:08 < xyproto> okok, I know, since it's related to C, but more, and "see"
has been proposed, how about "seemore"?
14:08 < wrtp> kinda C with backwards Go
14:08 < aiju> Na-C!
14:08 < xyproto> wrtp: it can be confused with coq?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coq
14:08 < nsf> wrtp: it doesn't sound right
14:09 < aiju> na-c sounds totally right!
14:09 < nsf> aiju: yeah, with an exclamation mark
14:09 < wrtp> how about deadend?  :-) :-) :-)
14:09 < nsf> :-)
14:10 < xyproto> nsf: if you find the name based on a mascot, I'll draw the
mascot for you
14:10 < aiju> call it "the"
14:10 < nsf> xyproto: hehe, ok
14:10 < aiju> to COMPLETELY fuck up google searches
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14:12 < nsf> aiju: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%AA
14:12 < nsf> I meant that letter
14:13 < nsf> it actually has a short name, interesting
14:13 < nsf> but after 1917 it has a different name in Russia :)
14:14 < wrtp> nsf: bag
14:14 < nsf> wrtp: bag?
14:14 < nsf> :\
14:15 < nsf> Yer programming language
14:15 < nsf> uhm..
14:16 < nsf> no
14:16 < aiju> how is yer related to C?
14:16 < nsf> it doesn't
14:17 < wrtp> aiju: it's a letter :-)
14:17 < nsf> yeah, it just looks cool and you can't read it
14:18 < nsf> :D
14:18 < wrtp> nsf: what about ¢
14:18 < nsf> but it has a name
14:18 < aiju> no, 愛 look scool
14:18 < nsf> haha
14:18 < wrtp> or cent in ascii
14:18 < nsf> no, thanks
14:18 < aiju> 糞
14:19 < aiju> meaning shit
14:19 < wrtp> never one to mince your works, eh aiju
14:19 < wrtp> s/works/words
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14:24 < xyproto> 碁
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14:24 < wrtp> heh, that programming language list doesn't actually have Go
in it
14:24 < aiju> Go is underground
14:24 < xyproto> This is the game of Go in Japanese: 囲碁
14:25 < nsf> wrtp: what programming languages list?
14:25 < nsf> wiki?
14:25 < nsf> uhm, no, wiki has Go
14:26 < nsf> I know at least two programming languages that are not in wiki
14:26 < nsf> in wiki's list*
14:26 < nsf> clay and zinc
14:26 < nsf> :P
14:27 < wrtp> nsf: http://www.programming-languages.co.uk
14:27 < wrtp> (which you linked to earlier)
14:27 < nsf> ah, yes
14:27 < aiju> no programming without representation!
14:27 < nsf> it was a random link from google
14:27 < aiju> ©Copyright 2007 - Programming Languages
14:28 < aiju> it doesn't have K!
14:28 < aiju> BLASPHEMY
14:28 < nsf> I should call my language: god
14:28 < nsf> GoD
14:28 < nsf> lol
14:28 < aiju> i am for Goebbels
14:29 < exch> wikipedia has Go
14:30 < nsf> has anyone seen a unicode identifier in any Go code?
14:30 < nsf> I think it's a useless feature
14:31 < nsf> I mean non-ascii
14:31 < nsf> obviously
14:31 < aiju> greek letters can be nice, but yeah, largely superfluous
14:31 <+iant> people do use it, and in any case it does no harm
14:31 < aiju> only encourages people to use non-english variable names
14:31 < nsf> iant: I'm curious what's the case?
14:31 < exch> which, imho, is not necessarily a good thing
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14:32 < wrtp> i've used π
14:32 <+iant> people who don't speak English shouldn't have to use English
variable names
14:32 <+iant> and that is where I've seen it
14:32 < nsf> I don't think it's true
14:32 < exch> Like having non-lating website URL's.  It just confuses the
hell out of everyone
14:32 < exch> *non-latin
14:32 < nsf> I mean the statement that they shouldn't
14:32 < wrtp> and in limbo (which likewise allowed unicode names) i've used
greek letters when translating formulae
14:32 < nsf> I've seen a bunch of painful programming languages with
cyrillic keywords in it
14:33 < wrtp> it can be much more readable
14:33 < nsf> and Go has english keywords and english standard library
14:33 < nsf> and english built-ins
14:33 < nsf> mixing it all, ugh..  ugly to me
14:34 <+iant> I assume you would not require everybody to write their
comments in English
14:34 <+iant> so why require them to write their variable names in English?
14:34 < nsf> iant: I would :)
14:34 < aiju> i would, too
14:34 <+iant> obviously that will limit the distribution of the program
(unless they use Chinese) but not all programs need to be widely distributed
14:34 < exch> I would to
14:34 < nsf> because at some point it is possible that source code will be
transfered to different team
14:34 < aiju> introducing arbitrary language barriers into computing pisses
me off
14:34 < nsf> and it should be an international language in the comments
14:35 <+iant> then we should all learn Chinese
14:35 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts
14:35 < nsf> iant: other than that, ok
14:35 < nsf> I agree
14:35 < skelterjohn> ok, on the non-flakey campus connection now
14:35 < exch> we should all just start using lojban :)
14:35 < skelterjohn> wrtp: was i doing something stupid?
14:36 < aiju> computing has settled on english, period
14:36 -!- crazy2be [~crazy2be@d209-89-248-73.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #go-nuts
14:36 < nsf> yeah, I think any computer specialist has to know english
anyway
14:36 < nsf> and for a programmer it's a requirement
14:36 < nsf> (to be a programmer)
14:36 < skelterjohn> to know a select set of english keywords
14:36 <+iant> it's not, though
14:37 <+iant> it's a requirement for open source programming
14:37 < skelterjohn> don't have to know english to know 10 funny looking
symbols
14:37 < nsf> I disagree :)
14:37 <+iant> but I assure you there are thousands of Chinese programmers
who are very productive and no essentially no English
14:37 <+iant> s/and no/and know/
14:38 < nsf> ok, I got your point
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14:38 < exch> Still, I think using non-english varnames/comments is just
being unneccesarilly obtuse :p
14:38 < bob_> hey does someone know if you can do operator overriding like
in c++ in GO
14:38 < aiju> bob_: no
14:38 <+iant> a couple of ideas have been proposed, but nothing has been
implemented, and there are no immediate plans
14:38 < bob_> aiju: thanks
14:39 < nsf> personally I think operator overloading is a bad idea :)
14:39 < aiju> operator overloading can be both a blessing and a curse
14:39 <+iant> yeah
14:39 < aiju> doing vector or bignum arithmetic is awkward without it
14:39 < aiju> but people abuse it for all kind of stupid retarded shit
14:39 < nsf> it changes semantics of the language
14:40 < nsf> that's the main problem
14:40 < nsf> e.g.:
14:40 < nsf> a + b
14:40 < nsf> vs.
14:40 < nsf> addVec3(a, b);
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14:40 < wrtp> nsf: here's an example of a source file that uses greek
identifiers quite a bit.  i think it looks ok
14:40 < nsf> with operator overloading one becomes the other
14:40 < wrtp> skelterjohn: no not really.  i sent you an email
14:41 < wrtp> just set DeclarationErrors in the parse flags
14:41 < bob_> but you should know whats going on when your dealing with
objects..  thats the point
14:41 < nsf> bob_: objects is a bad idea
14:42 < exch> good thing then that Go has no objects
14:42 < aiju> outside of math, there really is no need for operator
overloading imho
14:42 < nsf> well, not like that exactly, but object semantics shouldn't
interfere with language semantics
14:43 < wrtp> bob_: much of the time you're dealing with code that you don't
have a total knowledge of.  having some fixed language fundamentals means that you
can still manipulate code while preserving invariants
14:43 < nsf> yeah, exactly
14:43 < nsf> actually the problem in C++ not just with operator overloading
but with the whole language behaviour overloading
14:44 < nsf> constructors, destructors, move semantics
14:44 < aiju> it's a simplified version of the macro problem
14:44 < nsf> ugh..
14:44 < nsf> copy semantics as well
14:44 < aiju> it can make coding really pleasant and code really readable
when done right, but it can fuck everything up beyond everyone's imagination if
done wrong
14:44 < skelterjohn> wrtp: oh weird - DeclarationErrors?  it's not clear to
me why that is necessary
14:44 < nsf> for example:
14:45 < nsf> Type x; // I can't say whether this code will generate
destructor call at the end or not
14:45 < nsf> in Go:
14:45 < nsf> var x Type
14:45 < nsf> defer x.Free()
14:45 < nsf> more text, but more clear understanding
14:45 < nsf> clearer*
14:45 < nsf> s/more//
14:45 < nsf> :D
14:45 < skelterjohn> wrtp; but that works great, thanks!
14:46 * nsf hates all that crap in C++
14:46 < nsf> :(
14:46 < nsf> I don't know why, but it's very confusing
14:46 < nsf> although there are libraries that somehow fit nicely into that
model
14:46 < nsf> e.g.  Qt
14:47 < nsf> enough talks, let's do some work
14:47 < nsf> :P
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14:48 < aiju> Qt fits nicely in anything?
14:49 < nsf> yeah, I tried developing something with it
14:49 < nsf> it feels like a different language though
14:49 < aiju> i also programmed with it
14:49 < nsf> and it's also a proof for my words, that all that stuff change
semantics of the language
14:49 < aiju> there is all this strange shit like moc and qmake and whatever
14:50 < nsf> compilation is slow and painful, yes
14:50 < aiju> it's not very nice to write either
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14:50 < nsf> I'd say it works
14:50 < nsf> I saw glade-3 source code once
14:50 < nsf> gtk+ in C, no thanks
14:50 < nsf> :)
14:50 < aiju> GTK sucks
14:51 < aiju> not even the GNOME fanboy i know likes GTK
14:51 < nsf> aiju: what's the gui of choice in your world?  no gui?
14:51 < aiju> yeah ;P
14:51 < nsf> I see
14:51 < aiju> tk is ok
14:51 < nsf> tcl is not ok
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14:51 < nsf> tk is, I agree
14:52 < aiju> tcl is not the only tk binding
14:52 < aiju> and it sucks, yeah
14:52 < nsf> but you can't use it without tcl
14:52 < nsf> :D
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14:52 < nsf> or other PL that emits tcl anyway
14:53 * nsf is supposed to do some work
14:53 < nsf> :\
14:53 < wrtp> skelterjohn: yeah, i did it so declaration handling was
optional.  i introduced a Declarations flag too.  i think i'll make it do
declarations regardless.
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15:04 < crazy2be> Qt is nice
15:05 < crazy2be> but it's more like C++(Qt edition)
15:06 < crazy2be> nsf: You can write gtk+ code in C++, there are "native"
bindings for C++ that are much nicer
15:07 < aiju> it's still GTK
15:07 < crazy2be> aiju: What's wrong with that?  :P
15:08 < crazy2be> what is it about gtk you dislike?
15:08 < nsf> gtkmm is a bad bindings
15:08 < nsf> I don't like it
15:08 < uriel> what is not wrong with gtk?
15:08 < aiju> the C code is plain hell
15:08 < aiju> they define new macros every month
15:08 < uriel> (or c++, for that matter, except C iteslf obviously)
15:09 < aiju> #define GTK_FUCK_THIS_SHIT gtk_shit_this_fuck
15:09 < crazy2be> well, i've hardly even written in it
15:09 < aiju> which gets deleted three month later
15:09 < uriel> gtk was built by people that clearly don't understand how to
program in C
15:09 < crazy2be> other than the python bindings
15:09 < aiju> and using GTK is pure pain
15:09 < uriel> so they added their own layer of useless convoluted pseudo-OO
unportable gunk on top
15:10 < aiju> i mean GTK programs by that
15:11 < crazy2be> well, i'd love to see a nicer toolkit
15:11 < crazy2be> but i don't know of any
15:11 < wm_eddie> Every C-based GUI toolkit adds their own layer of
pseudo-OO.
15:12 < crazy2be> Gtk+ at least has decent themes
15:12 < aiju> hahahaha
15:12 < crazy2be> and isn't too horrible
15:12 < crazy2be> those tik or w/e programs look really wierd
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15:14 < crazy2be> and my pretty compiz menu animations don't work with them
:(
15:17 < nsf> uriel: saying that gtk is unportable, I don't know
15:17 < nsf> it was ported everywhere
15:18 < nsf> it works even in a browser
15:18 < nsf> via html5 features
15:18 < aiju> define everywhere
15:18 < nsf> on more platforms than any other gui toolkit
15:18 < crazy2be> my firefox can use the same theme as my Gtk+ :P
15:18 < crazy2be> although it's not written in Gtk+
15:19 < crazy2be> and yeah, there's a webkitgtk+
15:19 < crazy2be> although it's less than perfect, it's pretty good
15:19 < nsf> it uses gtk+
15:19 < nsf> (firefox I mean)
15:19 < nsf> on linux
15:19 < crazy2be> really?
15:19 < nsf> yes
15:20 < crazy2be> i thought it was XUL custom stuff
15:20 < nsf> well, XUL uses gtk
15:20 < nsf> http://pastie.org/1739802
15:20 < nsf> it uses 1/5th of my libraries, lol
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15:27 < crazy2be> more is always better :#
15:27 < crazy2be> wait what does that face even mean
15:28 < nsf> it's like :X I guess
15:28 < crazy2be> i meant to do :3
15:33 < aiju> it means you are a LISP programmer
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15:43 < wrtp> aiju: i think you mean #:
15:43 < wrtp> :-)
15:47 < steven> lisp ftw
15:47 < steven> so, when are we gonna see generics in Go?
15:47 < steven> tomorrow?
15:48 < nickbp> just added them go look!
15:48 < steven> srsly?
15:48 < nickbp> yeah check it out!
15:48 < steven> where!
15:49 < nickbp> making a million generics here
15:49 < steven> ...
15:49 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
15:49 < ww> hrmmm...  signal.SIGINFO doesn't exist on linux?
15:51 < nickbp> man 7 signal
15:51 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds]
15:51 < ww> right, but not in the go package
15:52 < wrtp> ww: what's SIGINFO?
15:52 -!- d_m [~d_m@64.186.128.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
15:52 < ww> i use it in daemons (e.g.  ckand) to make the program put some
status information, e.g.  memory usage and the like, in the log
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15:53 < nickbp> SIGINFO 29,-,- A synonym for SIGPWR
15:53 -!- d_m [~d_m@64.186.128.169] has joined #go-nuts
15:53 < ww> just built on ubuntu and the build blew up because there's no
signal.SIGINFO
15:53 < wrtp> oh yeah, "status request from keyboard" it says here
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15:53 < nickbp> SIGPWR (which is not specified in POSIX.1-2001) is typically
ignored by default on those other Unix systems where it appears.
15:53 < ww> nickbp: yes, it is there in signal.h, just not in go
15:54 < nickbp> oic
15:55 < nickbp> you could try 29 and see if it works
15:56 < nickbp> actually not sure what '29,-,-' means
15:56 < crazy2be> ls
15:56 < crazy2be> oops wrong window
15:56 < ww> it is 29 on freebsd and osx (where signal.SIGINFO exists in the
go build)
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15:57 < ww> quite likly putting 29 in would work, but less clear than it
could be...  i'll raise an issue
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16:12 < novabyte> nsf: you still around?
16:12 < nsf> always
16:13 < nsf> novabyte: ?
16:13 < novabyte> nsf: lol, i'm having a look through your gollvm bindings
again.  do you have any example code for a toy compiler you've built using them?
16:14 < nsf> I have only one toy compiler, it's written in C/C++
16:14 < nsf> for gollvm there are only few simple examples
16:14 < nsf> one actually
16:14 < novabyte> nsf: yeh was looking at them in the repo
16:14 < nsf> which is in repo, yeah
16:14 < nsf>
https://github.com/nsf/gollvm/blob/master/examples/factorial/factorial.go
16:14 < nsf> that one
16:14 < nsf> and that's all
16:14 < novabyte> nsf: yep
16:15 < novabyte> nsf: ok thx.
16:15 < novabyte> nsf: i'm toying with the idea between writing an
LLVM-based compiler in Go or D.
16:16 < nsf> I would use C++ :)
16:16 < nsf> with all its ugliness
16:16 < novabyte> nsf: D wins on the LLVM bindings (i think) and Go wins on
the coroutines, simplicity and parser generators.
16:16 < novabyte> nsf: i hate the language...
16:16 < nsf> :D
16:17 < nsf> novabyte: there is ragel (http://ragel.org) support for D
16:17 < nsf> and lemon parser generator which generates D code
16:17 < nsf> ragel works for lexers, lemon for parsers
16:17 < nsf> in fact my lemon port (golemon) was based on D port of lemon :)
16:18 < nsf> well, and there is goyacc
16:18 < novabyte> nsf: you're pushing me to D (in the Go channel ;) )
16:18 < nsf> which should be better anyway
16:18 < nsf> ah, yes
16:18 < nsf> I am
16:18 < nsf> novabyte: I don't think that writing a compiler is such a big
problem that requires nice programming language
16:19 < nsf> compiler architecture fits nicely even in inheritance-based
object model
16:19 < novabyte> nsf: i know it's partly an opportunity to delve into
another systems lang that's not C++
16:19 < nsf> I don't think there is one
16:19 < nsf> :)
16:19 < novabyte> nsf: hmmm, i guess
16:20 < nsf> both D and Go have garbage collector
16:20 * nsf doesn't like garbage collectors
16:20 < nsf> in systems PLs I mean
16:20 < novabyte> nsf: with D i'd avoid the garbage collector
16:20 < novabyte> nsf: can't in Go :(
16:21 < nsf> C++ is nice choice here, because LLVM is C++
16:21 < nsf> if you don't use C++ you will have to deal with its C bindings
16:21 < nsf> it's ok, but they are incomplete
16:22 < nsf> and LLVM evolves, C++ version is up-to-date always
16:22 < novabyte> nsf: ah I see, did not know that.
16:22 < nsf> LLVM 2.9 release soon
16:22 < nsf> novabyte: well, there a lot of stuff
16:22 < nsf> but maybe
16:22 < nsf> you'll have to add more
16:22 < novabyte> nsf: the LLVM bindings in D (the ldc project) do they use
the C FFI?
16:23 < nsf> I think all bindings use C FFI
16:23 < nsf> since no language can use C++ directly
16:23 < novabyte> nsf: yeh because of it's stupidly complex ABI
16:23 < nsf> and unspecified
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16:23 < nsf> ABI
16:23 < novabyte> nsf: lol true
16:23 < crazy2be> anyone gotten go running on an ipod?
16:24 < nsf> I think different compilers can use different name mangling
schemes
16:24 < nsf> without sacrificing standards compliance
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16:24 < novabyte> nsf: you'd think having a 500 page language reference
they'd have found somewhere to specify that
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16:25 < novabyte> nsf: ah well, thx nsf.  ("decisions...  decisions" he says
muttering to himself, cursing C++ as he walks.)
16:25 < nsf> I hate C++ as well
16:25 < nsf> and I'm writing a compiler in C++ now
16:25 < nsf> :)
16:25 < novabyte> nsf: masochist...  :P
16:26 < nsf> in fact it gives you different view on a language
16:26 < nsf> like "you have no choice, but to use C++, what would you do?"
16:26 < nsf> :)
16:26 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c65e7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240
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16:26 < nsf> the end result is something between C and C++
16:27 < nsf> works and it's all that matters
16:27 < novabyte> nsf: i knew the expression you only know a language when
you right a compiler for it...  but now it's "you only know a language when you
write a compiler in it" :)
16:27 < nsf> no, the first one is true
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16:28 < nsf> because you walk all the dark corners of the language
16:28 < nsf> without that you can't implement it
16:28 < nsf> so, no one knows C++
16:28 < nsf> even Bjarne Stroustrup :)
16:28 < novabyte> nsf: lol.
16:29 < novabyte> nsf: yep, it was additive.  anyways im going AFK.  thx for
the advice.
16:29 < nsf> np
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16:32 < novabyte> nsf: one last thing, what licence are your bindings?
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16:33 < nsf> I didn't add the LICENSE file, but MIT or public domain
16:33 < nsf> I don't care actually about the copyrights
16:33 < novabyte> nsf: kk thx.
16:34 < nsf> and there are zero technology in the code anyway
16:34 < nsf> Go code calls C code, nothing fancy
16:34 < novabyte> nsf: i'm not going to steal anything, i've just got to be
sure the licence is acceptable to the university.
16:34 < novabyte> nsf: it's a "for the records" book keeping thing.
16:35 < nsf> ah ok, let me add the LICENSE file then
16:36 < nsf> done
16:36 < novabyte> nsf: thank you.
16:36 < nsf> np
16:37 < wrtp> an email prompted me to post this:
https://rogpeppe.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/logging-in-reverse/
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17:12 < steven> clever wrtp
17:12 < steven> :)
17:13 < wrtp> kinda obvious really, if you know go, but a nice example
17:13 < steven> a very good example, actually.
17:13 < steven> a good example of Go's inherent flexibility
17:13 < steven> <3
17:15 < wrtp> i like the fact that you can link to go playground examples of
actual programs
17:15 < wrtp> (which i only just discovered)
17:15 < wrtp> i think i might use it more for pasting now
17:16 < steven> oh cool
17:17 < wrtp> you have to use a url shortening service though
17:17 < wrtp> otherwise the link is longer than the program :-)
17:18 < steven> hehe
17:19 < kamaji> i'm assuming they've disabled http requests
17:19 < kamaji> because if not you could do some pretty hilarious stuff
17:20 < wrtp> yeah, no net and very limit os access
17:20 < steven>
http://blog.golang.org/2010/09/introducing-go-playground.html
17:20 < steven> i dont know HOW they restricted it though
17:20 < steven> i would love to be able to duplicate that restriction
locally
17:20 < steven> as an expdriment
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17:21 < kamaji> examine source?  :P
17:22 < wrtp> time.Nanoseconds always returns the same value
17:22 < wrtp> i think they want it to be deterministic
17:23 < kamaji> Probably doing some kind of static analysis?
17:23 < kamaji> well obviously :\
17:23 < wrtp> the source to the go playground isn't yet available
17:24 < kamaji> probably just red tape
17:24 < wrtp> kamaji: i don't think it's that complicated - all you need to
do is restrict the available packages
17:24 < kamaji> the "well obviously :\" was just 'cause I figured that would
fall under 'static analysis"
17:24 < kamaji> but yeah
17:24 < wrtp> (which is in itself a kind of static analysis...)
17:24 < kamaji> they've probably just whitelisted packages
17:24 < kamaji> jinx~
17:24 < wrtp> yeah
17:28 < wrtp> i'm not sure you can do anything that invokes any syscall, in
fact
17:28 < steven> kamaji: its not in the source.
17:28 < kamaji> steven: what's not in the source?
17:28 < kamaji> the whitelisting?
17:28 < wrtp> the playground
17:28 < steven> look at the source to goplay, it says that it does NOT
restrict anything
17:28 < kamaji> oh i'm probably looking at the wrong website :P
17:28 < kamaji> i'm just on golang.org
17:29 < wrtp> steven: goplay is not used for the go playground
17:29 < wrtp> (or not directly at any rate)
17:30 < steven> oh.
17:30 < steven> wth
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17:59 < kamaji> I should really do error checking
17:59 < kamaji> i'm used to java going "OH HAY THIS HAPPENED", and then
fixing it >_>
18:00 < kamaji> as opposed to "WAAAAAAAAAAHHHH"
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18:40 < bobbaluba> hi, i just compiled go on my atom-pc and compiled my
first hello world program in go
18:40 < bobbaluba> however, i get runtime errors
18:40 < aiju> like?
18:41 < bobbaluba> first line is ./test.8: line1: go: command not found
18:41 < bobbaluba> the rest are similar
18:42 < bobbaluba> i've googled it, but i can't find anyone else having the
same problem
18:42 < bobbaluba> and this also confuses me, i thought go was a compiled
language, why do i get these errors at runtime?
18:43 < bobbaluba> "8g test.go" ran without errors
18:43 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has joined #go-nuts
18:45 < bobbaluba> anyone got any ideas?
18:45 < dforsyth> you didnt link
18:46 < dforsyth> 8l test.8
18:46 < dforsyth> ./8.out
18:46 < bobbaluba> yay
18:46 < bobbaluba> thanks!
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19:10 < kamaji> Should I pass functions as pointers to functions?
19:10 < kamaji> What's actually happening with a function as a parameter
19:11 < exch> kamaji: no need to do that
19:11 < xash> It's already given as a pointer
19:11 < kamaji> oh ok
19:12 < kamaji> I think I use functions as parameters too often :D
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19:15 < xash> When I access a server by http.Get(url) and want's to read the
body with Response.Read(buffer) ..  why is the buffer empty?
19:16 < xash> Ahh ..  nevermind
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19:17 < kamaji> error?
19:18 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has joined #go-nuts
19:19 < xash> Exactly ;-)
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20:07 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Zga0fv by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in
go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: add Transport.MaxIdleConnsPerHost
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20:23 < skelterjohn> wrtp: i have some more qs about your type inferrer
20:24 < plexdev> http://is.gd/uHw8OY by [Rob Pike] in 2 subdirs of go/doc/
-- roadmap: remove description of implementation of garbage collector.
20:25 < skelterjohn> wait, might have figured it out
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21:17 < katakuna> is it possible to insert a function into a package?
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21:19 < exch> Not unless yuo modify it's source directly
21:19 < exch> s/uo/ou/
21:21 < katakuna> k
21:22 < katakuna> http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html < is this really
all there is in terms of documentation?
21:23 < exch> http://golang.org/pkg/ here's the rest
21:23 < exch> as well as the full package source
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21:28 < str1ngs> katakuna: there is also the spec
21:29 < str1ngs> katakuna: if you can not find something just as in here
someone can point you in the right direction.
21:34 < skelterjohn> wrtp: your exp/types is great - i rewrote gorf
completely based around it.  much simpler now.
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21:37 < kamaji> katakuna: people in here are surprisingly helpful even with
dumb questions, and if you see skelterjohn saying "RTFM" to me, just ignore it :P
21:38 < skelterjohn> I only said it twice.
21:38 < kamaji> hey i didn't say stop
21:38 < aiju> i answer dumb questions happily, i just get upset over dumb
statements ;P
21:39 < kamaji> those RTFM's are making me not lazy :P
21:39 < kamaji> There are no stupid questions.  Except the ones I ask.
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21:44 < katakuna> oh goodie :D
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21:47 < katakuna> where are the const values for read only/write
only/readwrite stored?
21:47 < katakuna> I can see them used in syscall
21:47 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.106.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:48 < aiju> os
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21:49 < skelterjohn> what's the license to use if i don't mind if people
distribute or modify my code (can be closed source), but i don't want others to
sell it
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21:50 < kamaji> skelterjohn: you mean sell unmodified or at all?
21:50 < kamaji> not that I know the answer to this question
21:50 < skelterjohn> at all
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21:51 < kamaji> seems an odd license :D
21:51 < aiju> the "no such" license
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21:51 <+iant> skelterjohn: it's extremely difficult to write such a license
21:52 <+iant> there are licenses which prohibit commercial use but in effect
they make it impossible for any business to use the software
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21:52 < aiju> and not to mention stupid
21:52 <+iant> it's hard to pin down "no resale" without effectively meaning
"nothing other than personal use"
21:52 < katakuna> anyone here use goclipse?
21:52 < aiju> there was some nice text about this, but i forgot where :\
21:52 < skelterjohn> katakuna: i am using eclipse, but goclipse won't let me
decide where to put source
21:53 < skelterjohn> so i use goclipse's syntax highlighter
21:53 < skelterjohn> but a "general" project
21:53 < katakuna> ah
21:53 < kamaji> IDEs have too many blinkenlights, they confuse and enrage me
21:53 < skelterjohn> and some custom rules about excluding things
21:53 < katakuna> i'm trying goclipse, cause it looks as if it will show me
various fields/functions of different packages
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21:53 < katakuna> whcih will be useful
21:53 < skelterjohn> back to licenses, a simpler question: MIT or Apache?
21:53 < kamaji> MIT!
21:53 < kamaji> it's a cool university
21:53 < katakuna> I hear apache is like communism
21:53 < katakuna> but that's just what I've heard.
21:53 < kamaji> filthy commies
21:53 < kimelto> ISC!
21:54 < skelterjohn> what's the difference between the two?
21:54 < kamaji> Apache seems quite close to what you want
21:54 < kamaji> except they can sell it :P
21:54 < nickbp> skelterjohn: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html
21:54 < skelterjohn> thanks
21:54 < kimelto> apache is too verbose.  more corporate fridnly I suppose :)
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21:55 < nbm> Question about fmt.Print[f]: If I have a bunch of goroutines
churning out numbers to print at a very high rate, eventually I get to the point
where some buffer is overflowing and causing my numbers to get lost.  Is there a
way to give whatever buffer's getting overflowed more space?
21:55 < kamaji> apache never explicity says you can sell the derived work
....  maybe that will put people off?  :D
21:55 <+iant> the apache license is more complex than the MIT license, but
it has a patent clause
21:55 < skelterjohn> what license does Golang use?
21:55 < kamaji> iant: doesn't the patent clause basically just say "any
rights we have to patents, you now have rights to"?
21:56 < kimelto> google prefers apache iirc
21:56 < nbm> Go uses a 3-clause BSD-style license.
21:56 < plexdev> http://is.gd/9A4IZy by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ --
fmt: implement precs for %q.
21:56 < kamaji> looks like BSD?
21:56 < str1ngs> yes!  I can now extract tarball's with LongLinks
21:56 <+iant> kamaji: yes, but the MIT license doesn't actually say that, so
it is possible to argue that you can distribute patented software under the MIT
license and then sue people for patent infringement
21:56 < kamaji> skelterjohn: yeah it's the BSD license I think
21:57 < kimelto> because software can be patented?  :-)
21:57 <+iant> that would be a hard case to make, but stranger things have
happened when ownership of companies has changed
21:57 < kamaji> iant: right, I was actually thinking that might deter people
from trying to sell stuff ^^
21:57 <+iant> some people, yes
21:57 <+iant> most people don't worry too much about the MIT or BSD license,
since the intent is reasonably clear
21:57 < kamaji> hey, Wells Fargo sued themselves, I'd hesitate to comment on
any kind of legal crap :D
21:58 < kamaji> wait, i've been doing just that
21:58 < str1ngs> iant: thanks for that email btw, helped me figure out that
LongLink issue.
21:58 <+iant> glad you got it working
21:59 <+iant> I used to run into that back when I had to run on
non-GNU/Linux systems
21:59 < kamaji> nbm: won't that just postpone the problem?
21:59 < str1ngs> I also confusing K vs L. L is long names and K is long
links
22:00 < kamaji> nbm: could you maybe do an "output" process multiplexing all
the channel inputs from the others into a buffer and outputting as fast as
possible, then causing them to block when it can't output anymore?
22:00 < nbm> @kamaji: Not if I can make the buffer as big as my output; I
only need a couple MB/process.  But yes, it will.  The problem is that sending
everything through a channel to a printer process makes things even slower.
22:01 < kamaji> ah
22:01 < kamaji> I would've thought that was sort of happening under the hood
with stdout, but I guess the OS is handling that
22:01 < kamaji> Is it an OS thing?
22:01 < nbm> Maybe it is.  I'll look into that.
22:02 < kamaji> I know pipes in unix have a default buffer size of 4KB
22:02 < kamaji> well.....  "know"
22:02 < KirkMcDonald> In Linux.
22:02 < kamaji> Linux
22:02 < kamaji> my bad
22:02 < kamaji> :P
22:02 < skelterjohn> i copied the license that go source uses
22:03 < kamaji> skelterjohn: COPYRIGHT INFRINGER!
22:03 < skelterjohn> i wonder if the license had a license?
22:03 < kamaji> BURN THE INFRINGER
22:03 < kamaji> skelterjohn: it was BSD license wasn't it?
22:03 < skelterjohn> "BSD-Style"
22:03 < kamaji> oh yeah, so it is
22:03 < kamaji> just missing 3rd and 4th clauses
22:04 < nbm> Hmm, LICENSE doesn't actually grant a license to itself...
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22:04 < kamaji> nbm: but it's a derivative work of BSD license :P
22:04 < skelterjohn> anyway, thanks to wrtp's type inference library, gorf
(github.com/skelterjohn/gorf) can rename packages, types, global vars and consts,
funcs and struct field names
22:04 < nbm> kamaji: Hmm, good point...sort of.
22:05 < kamaji> hehe
22:05 < skelterjohn> i'm thinking about what the best way to extract a type
from one package and move it into another would be
22:05 < skelterjohn> and also to merge packages
22:05 < yebyen> nice
22:05 < kamaji> I like the name
22:06 < skelterjohn> it's not straightforward - things in the original
package might reference non-exported members of the type
22:06 < skelterjohn> question is - do you not allow it, or do you move
everything that references it?
22:06 < kamaji> haha "DO NOT RUN THIS ON IMPORTANT CODE"
22:06 < skelterjohn> :)
22:06 < kamaji> approve
22:07 < skelterjohn> i suppose it should just not allow it - you can rename
field names to be exported if you want to extract the type
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22:11 < nbm> Is there a faster way to spell fmt.Sprintf("%c%c%c%c%c", a, b,
c, d, e)?
22:11 < nbm> Also, less silly would be good.
22:12 < exch> if they are all bytes..  fmt.Sprintf("%s", []byte{a,b,c,d,e})
22:12 < skelterjohn> []byte{a,b,c,d,e}
22:12 < nbm> Woo, thanks
22:12 < exch> would create an extra allocation for the slice though
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22:16 < nbm> Wow, that is...almost 3 orders of magnitude faster.
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22:17 < katakuna> anyone using goclipse: Invalid Go language settings.
Please adjust on the Go preferences page.
22:17 < katakuna> got that error just after I installed :|
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22:17 < skelterjohn> you have to tell it your GOROOT
22:18 < skelterjohn> you should adjust it on the Go preferences page
22:18 < katakuna> skelterjohn: was just about to ask, where is the field to
enter that?  :p I cant find it
22:19 < skelterjohn> on a mac, it's in the preferences menu
22:19 < skelterjohn> cmd-comma
22:21 < katakuna> ah there we go
22:21 < katakuna> I was in the project properties window
22:22 < skelterjohn> bbl
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22:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/E6eCoc by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 3 subdirs of
go/src/ -- testing: add -test.timeout option.
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22:34 < katakuna> someone give me a simple project idea
22:36 < kamaji> katakuna: Build a XiangQi server
22:36 < kamaji> beacuse I want to play
22:36 < kamaji> and because chess with cannons is clearly better than
regular chess
22:37 < katakuna> eurgh but that requires me learning the rules to an entire
board game :(
22:37 < kamaji> lol
22:37 -!- wrtp [~rog@92.17.29.230] has quit [Quit: wrtp]
22:37 < kamaji> ok ok, how about......
22:37 < katakuna> I'd rather start with something i'm at least partly
experienced with
22:37 < kamaji> ooh!
22:37 < kamaji> I got it
22:38 < kamaji> A go/javascript graph plotting tool
22:38 < kamaji> use html/js for the UI
22:38 < kamaji> go for the backend
22:38 < katakuna> how would go be used as a backend?  :/
22:38 < kamaji> fair point
22:38 < kamaji> I was just thinking that :D
22:38 < kamaji> I mean you could use it to serve the pages....  but past
that...
22:38 < kamaji> chat servers are fun
22:39 < kamaji> but soooooo 1980s
22:39 < katakuna> I was thinking IRC bot
22:39 < kamaji> GO TO IT
22:39 < katakuna> wait what
22:39 < kamaji> make it
22:39 < kamaji> make it extensible!
22:39 < kamaji> like a Go bot API
22:39 < katakuna> I made an extensible irc bot in java :p
22:40 < kamaji> then make one in Go :P
22:40 < kamaji> do some NLP for great justice
22:40 * katakuna reads up on Go callbacks
22:40 < Namegduf> Go has firstclass functions
22:40 < kamaji> katakuna: you can just pass functions around as variables,
it's brillo
22:40 < katakuna> kamaji: how do you call a function thats been passed?
22:41 < kamaji> katakuna: F(stuff)
22:41 < kamaji> katakuna: same as normal
22:42 < kamaji> e.g., func apply(F func(int) bool, i int) bool { return F(i)
}
22:43 < kamaji> I'm so glad I started coding in an era when syntax
highlighting is ubiquitous
22:44 < katakuna> I agree
22:44 < katakuna> makes everything so much easier to read
22:46 -!- jumzi [~none@c-89-233-234-125.cust.bredband2.com] has quit [Ping
timeout: 246 seconds]
22:46 < katakuna> is it possible to call a function from something like, a
user-provided string
22:46 < katakuna> "AFunctionName"()
22:47 < exch> not without copious amounts of reflection
22:47 < kamaji> someone's been using too much java :p
22:47 < katakuna> its true :(
22:48 < kamaji> katakuna: Why not provide a bot library and then do an
implementation of your own bot?
22:48 < kamaji> split the two things up, that way you don't need reflection
22:48 < kamaji> and you'll probably end up with cleaner code
22:48 < katakuna> I was going to write a framework
22:48 < katakuna> the framework would provide handling of simple events,
like PRIVMSG JOIN etc.  which could be overridden
22:48 < katakuna> all other events ignored
22:48 < kamaji> (I don't really understand the difference between framework
and API) :D
22:49 < kamaji> oh I see what you mean
22:49 < kamaji> I don't know the IRC protocol all that well, but I'm
assuming you can layer it, right?
22:49 < katakuna> what do you mean by layer it?
22:49 < kamaji> so client library on the bottom, and then those default
events on top?
22:49 < kamaji> as seperate package
22:49 < kamaji> s
22:50 < katakuna> I'd put in a map with the keys == events
22:51 < kamaji> that makes sense, but won't that map be above the protocol
layer?
22:51 < kamaji> if you do strings as the keys I guess not
22:52 < katakuna> I don't really know how to explain it
22:52 < katakuna> I'll just show you when i finish it :p
22:52 < dforsyth> i need to add syntax highlighting to my editor
22:52 < kamaji> katakuna: ok :P
22:52 < kamaji> I think that's best :D
22:52 < kamaji> dforsyth: but how do you read the code ;_;
22:53 < dforsyth> with my eyes :)
22:53 < kamaji> wrong!
22:53 < kamaji> like a BOSS
22:53 < dforsyth> i use syntax highlighting in vim, but the vi clone im
writing doesnt have syntax highlighting
22:53 < kamaji> oh.  you literally mean your own editor ^^
22:53 < dforsyth> yup :)
22:55 < dforsyth> i should add space and tab indicators first, i think
22:55 < dforsyth> theyre probably more important
22:55 < kamaji> lol
22:56 * katakuna stabs self
22:56 < katakuna> wish I listened to my emails more, I recieved a job offer
8 months ago :(
22:56 < kamaji> argh
22:56 < kamaji> that's gotta hurt
22:59 < katakuna>
https://github.com/siada/jotta/tree/master/src/com/pie/jotta heh wow
22:59 < katakuna> its been a year since I last touched it, so its REALLY
REALLY old, but thats a basic version of the extensible irc bot I wrote in java
22:59 < kamaji> katakuna: public static final String IRC_SERVER =
"iwantddos.co.uk";
23:00 < katakuna> used to own that domain, ran out abount a month ago
23:00 < kamaji> you realise there are things called "API_KEY" and
"SECRET_KEY" in there?
23:00 < katakuna> yeah, theyre nothing important
23:00 < kamaji> ok ^^
23:01 < kimelto> Day changed to 01 Apr 2011 - Did we get an april fool last
year?
23:01 -!- artefon [~thiago@189.59.206.179] has joined #go-nuts
23:07 < dforsyth> its not april on here in PST land yet
23:07 < katakuna> but where it matters, it's april fools
23:07 < katakuna> :')
23:11 < ww> *5~
23:11 * ww gesundheit
23:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/SP92I2 by [Alex Brainman] in
go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: execute gomake properly on Windows
23:18 < katakuna> kamaji: gimmie a name :p
23:19 -!- dfc [~dfc@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts
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[Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
23:21 < kamaji> katakuna: Gobot
23:21 < kamaji> I was gonna use that for a Go server :(
23:22 < katakuna> oh how original
23:22 < katakuna> <_>
23:22 < kamaji> but you can have it because I probably won't start it :p
23:22 < kamaji> lol
23:22 < kamaji> it's GOOD
23:22 < kamaji> all go projects must be prefixed with "go"
23:26 * Archwyrm is waiting for 'goaway'
23:27 -!- iant [~iant@nat/google/x-njgpnkytozbwltxi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248
seconds]
23:27 < kamaji> look what you did
23:28 < Archwyrm> Someone left?  Because I wouldn't know.  :)
23:31 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined
#go-nuts
23:31 < katakuna> why does goclipse make 2 directories "cmd" and "pkg" for a
new project?
23:31 < katakuna> what would even go into those
23:31 < skelterjohn> source for cmds or pkgs
23:31 < katakuna> i'm guessing a command is something I'm yet to encounter
23:32 < skelterjohn> a pkg is like a library
23:32 < skelterjohn> a cmd is an executable
23:32 < skelterjohn> something with package main and func main() { }
23:32 < katakuna> whereas a pkg will only have a package X ?
23:33 < skelterjohn> something like that
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23:44 < katakuna> is there a way to get git to remember your passphrase
23:46 < KirkMcDonald> Is this just an ssh passphrase?
23:46 < katakuna> yeah
23:46 < nickbp> ssh key file
23:46 < KirkMcDonald> Use an ssh agent, then.
23:47 < katakuna> I'm no good with this stuff, but basically every time I
push with git, it asks me for my passphrase to my ssh key
23:47 < KirkMcDonald> Yes.  Use an agent.
23:47 < nickbp> you can create a key file with an empty passphrase
23:47 < KirkMcDonald> Or that.
23:47 < KirkMcDonald> (An agent is better.)
23:48 < KirkMcDonald> The agent is process that stays resident in memory.
You give it the key's passphrase once per reboot.
23:48 < KirkMcDonald> Then the ssh client asks the agent about the key on
each connection.
23:49 < KirkMcDonald> Result: No more entering passphrases on each
connection.
23:49 * exch prefers enter the pass every time
23:50 < KirkMcDonald> Really?
23:50 < exch> ya
23:50 < katakuna> I've no idea what an ssh agent is
23:50 < KirkMcDonald> I've got my Windows laptop set up such that I can
connect to my Linux machine using putty and bring up my IRC session with a single
click.
23:50 < KirkMcDonald> katakuna: I just told you want it is.  :-)
23:50 < katakuna> I was hoping it'd be as simple as entering the passphrase
into a file and leaving it there
23:51 < KirkMcDonald> s/want/what/
23:51 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read
error: Connection reset by peer]
23:51 < KirkMcDonald> katakuna: If you want to do that, just make a key with
no passphrase.
23:51 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined
#go-nuts
--- Log closed Fri Apr 01 00:00:50 2011