--- Log opened Tue Apr 05 00:00:50 2011 00:05 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05 < plexdev> http://is.gd/MRWdpv by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: fix hanging bug with HEAD responses 00:07 -!- randfur [~AndChat@58.145.148.26] has joined #go-nuts 00:09 -!- Cobi [~Cobi@2002:1828:88fb:0:aede:48ff:febe:ef03] has joined #go-nuts 00:09 -!- kvey [~xantosfla@75-164-97-85.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: cya] 00:10 -!- prip_ [~foo@host29-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:11 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 00:14 -!- prip_ [~foo@host29-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 00:22 -!- randfur [~AndChat@58.145.148.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:22 -!- randfur [~AndChat@58.145.148.26] has joined #go-nuts 00:25 -!- pphalen [~pphalen@66.92.11.149] has left #go-nuts [] 00:29 -!- 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01:39 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.153.77.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 01:40 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 01:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Hl6iyH by [Gustavo Niemeyer] in go/src/pkg/path/filepath/ -- filepath: new Abs function 01:41 < plexdev> http://is.gd/FAy7cz by [Mikio Hara] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: fix typo 01:46 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.153.77.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47 -!- littlebobby [~bob@unaffiliated/littlebobby] has left #go-nuts ["Ex-Chat"] 01:56 -!- prip_ [~foo@host29-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:02 -!- sramsay [~sramsay@lenz.unl.edu] has joined #go-nuts 02:09 -!- prip [~foo@host158-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 02:19 -!- prip [~foo@host158-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:20 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 02:22 -!- Guest67481 [~foo@host158-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 02:22 -!- randfur [~AndChat@58.145.148.26] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:24 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 02:25 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7Oq4J2 by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: fix Transport connection re-use race 02:45 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 02:49 -!- Guest67481 [~foo@host158-195-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:55 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-24-11-39-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Se96mo by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: ignore Transfer-Encoding on HEAD responses 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/LHIAgw by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- weekly.2011-04-04 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Rc2mw3 by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- tag weekly.2011-04-04 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/4afbXt by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/ -- tag release.2011-03-28 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/F7QvTq by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- net: drop laddr from Dial, cname from LookupHost; new functions 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/KuooZR by [Russ Cox] in 8 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- update tree for package net changes 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ZmWNTv by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gofix/ -- gofix: netdial 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/zw4uYh by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- fix build 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/pFwEph by [Alexey Borzenkov] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: implement non-blocking connect 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/LCCqiJ by [Evan Shaw] in go/misc/kate/ -- kate: reorganize, remove closed() 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/9dZJHr by [Evan Shaw] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- bytes, strings: simplify Join 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/OwkDkU by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/test/syntax/ -- test: match gccgo error messages for syntax/chan.go. 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/d4abQY by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/test/syntax/ -- test: avoid undefined error in syntax/if.go. 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/PPJAdN by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 2 subdirs of go/test/ -- test: adjust bugs/bug322 to match current spec. 02:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/exqaOa by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/asn1/ -- asn1: extensions needed for parsing Kerberos 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/K4zJDA by [Mikkel Krautz] in go/src/pkg/crypto/x509/ -- crypto/x509: Parse Extended Key Usage extension 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YdtUcz by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of go/src/ -- CL 4291070: incorporating rsc's feedback 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/iHC6oa by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- ngotest: a new gotest command, written in Go. 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/tgklcO by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/debug/gosym/ -- debug/gosym: remove need for gotest to run preparatory commands. 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/nZf4xL by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: David Forsythe (individual CLA) 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/pWMYPq by [David Forsythe] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os: fix FileInfo.Name returned by Stat 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aJWjEJ by [Alexey Borzenkov] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: move bind back to sock.go 02:58 < dfc> whoa, thanks for the spam 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/R3azTf by [Albert Strasheim] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: StartProcess Chroot and Credential. 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/0Q13zo by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/crypto/cipher/ -- crypto/cipher: bad CTR IV length now triggers panic 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/P6Ae6H by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- ngotest: correctly handle packages with tests outside the package. 02:58 < steven> whoaa 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/1kYP2O by [Rob Pike] in 3 subdirs of go/src/cmd/ -- gotry: move into its own directory, separate from gotest. 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/omnkeZ by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/govet/ -- govet: fix bug introduced at 4313054 02:58 < dfc> @adg_ 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/kIflZn by [Rob Pike] in 3 subdirs of go/src/ -- gotest: replace the shell script with the compiled program written in go. 02:58 < plexdev> http://is.gd/qd4gqZ by [Rob Pike] in 2 subdirs of go/src/ -- prints: fix a couple of formatting errors caught by govet 02:59 < dfc> you're +o, can you mute this ? 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/eEFgoX by [Adam Langley] in go/src/pkg/crypto/tls/ -- crypto/tls: extend NPN support to the client. 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dLJrOj by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 3 subdirs of go/test/ -- test: adjust bug324 to expect run-time failure, not compile-time. 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/shxBgP by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/test/interface/ -- test: add test for interfaces with unexported methods. 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cpoD3b by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/pkg/time/ -- time: make TestAfterQueuing retry 3 times before declaring failure. 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/aPdJ4W by [Robert Griesemer] in 4 subdirs of go/src/ -- go/printer/gofmt: remove special case for multi-line raw strings 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cwXdZx by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/cmd/godoc/ -- godoc: remove errant space in HTML tag 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/kPU45p by [Roger Peppe] in go/src/pkg/go/parser/ -- go/parser: fix scoping for local type declarations 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/GqpDWp by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: exclude . files when parsing directories (per r's suggestion) 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/b9W5O5 by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/test/ -- test: don't require specific GOARCH values. 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/g5mSYd by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/scanner/ -- scanner: treat line comments like in Go 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/YjdPhL by [Robert Griesemer] in 3 subdirs of go/src/ -- gotype: support for more tests, added one new test 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/yibCdf by [Russ Cox] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt: remove uintptrGetter type checks 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/w5Hagt by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gopack/ -- gopack: add P flag to remove prefix from filename information 02:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/x901h3 by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gopack/ -- gopack: comment out debugging print 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Mdobtn by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: another try at flags. 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/KIDKaV by [Alexey Borzenkov] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- net, syscall: fix windows build 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Zga0fv by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: add Transport.MaxIdleConnsPerHost 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/uHw8OY by [Rob Pike] in 2 subdirs of go/doc/ -- roadmap: remove description of implementation of garbage collector. 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/9A4IZy by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/fmt/ -- fmt: implement precs for %q. 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/E6eCoc by [Ian Lance Taylor] in 3 subdirs of go/src/ -- testing: add -test.timeout option. 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/SP92I2 by [Alex Brainman] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: execute gomake properly on Windows 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/WFXCKy by [Alex Brainman] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: another attempt to make it run on Windows 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/1qMkU2 by [Anthony Starks] in go/misc/notepadplus/ -- misc/notepadplus: add syntax and completion support for notepad++ 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/AM2n43 by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/path/filepath/ -- path/filepath.Glob: don't drop known matches on error. 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/shoypw by [Evan Shaw] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: make Syscall6 pass 6th arg on linux/386 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/TOk33t by [Russ Cox] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- gc: avoid saying same error 3 times 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/h9YtjO by [Evan Shaw] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: make Rawsyscall6 pass 6th arg on linux/386 03:00 < plexdev> http://is.gd/KMH7fv by [Robert Griesemer] in go/src/pkg/go/parser/ -- go/parser: package name must not be the blank identifier 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/dspt4H by [Yuval Pavel Zholkover] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- R=rsc, brainman, ality, r2, r 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Cs5yEs by [Yuval Pavel Zholkover] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os: Plan 9 support. 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Kepk60 by [Ian Lance Taylor] in go/src/ -- Make.pkg: increase test timeout to 120 seconds. 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Ws6cbO by [Andrey Mirtchovski] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os: add a few missing plan9 errors 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/zkJn6G by [Andrey Mirtchovski] in go/src/pkg/path/filepath/ -- path/filepath: add support for plan9 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/t0mVHP by [Andrew Gerrand] in go/src/ -- version.bash: strip changeset hash from 'hg tags' output 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7VVV9B by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: make triv.go example compile again 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/l7Pqkf by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in 3 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- httptest: add NewTLSServer 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cpLuKe by [Mikio Hara] in go/src/pkg/syscall/ -- syscall: add BPF support for freebsd/386, freebsd/amd64 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/8ChE9B by [Albert Strasheim] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os: Fix MkdirAll("/thisdoesnotexist"). 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/HhPuVq by [Russ Cox] in go/lib/codereview/ -- codereview: only retry on HTTP 500 error 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/waNrZF by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- CONTRIBUTORS: add Matt Jones (Google CLA) 03:01 -!- Guest67481 [~foo@host229-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 03:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/s37vEW by [Matt Jones] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: use upper case hex in URL escaping 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/mFRYjK by [Evan Shaw] in go/src/pkg/bufio/ -- bufio: Write and WriteString cleanup 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/J4QbgV by [Rob Pike] in 2 subdirs of go/src/ -- path/filepath.Glob: add an error return. 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/OVw7nn by [Russ Cox] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: fix build 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/8HPqdP by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in 6 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- os: add Seek whence constants 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/MRWdpv by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: fix hanging bug with HEAD responses 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Hl6iyH by [Gustavo Niemeyer] in go/src/pkg/path/filepath/ -- filepath: new Abs function 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/FAy7cz by [Mikio Hara] in go/src/pkg/net/ -- net: fix typo 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/7Oq4J2 by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: fix Transport connection re-use race 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Se96mo by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in go/src/pkg/http/ -- http: ignore Transfer-Encoding on HEAD responses 03:02 < plexdev> http://is.gd/LHIAgw by [Andrew Gerrand] in 2 subdirs of go/ -- weekly.2011-04-04 03:05 < nickbp> ( ゚∀゚)アハハ八八ノヽノヽノヽノ \ / \/ \ 03:05 -!- sramsay [~sramsay@lenz.unl.edu] has left #go-nuts [] 03:09 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@c-69-181-223-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:12 -!- niemeyer 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[~Adium@adsl-76-205-250-144.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34 < Archwyrm> wtf 03:37 < Archwyrm> Seems like a lot of commits all at once. I wonder if the github repo was behind. 03:37 < Archwyrm> No, I saw this one (http://is.gd/uHw8OY) the other day in here. 03:38 < dfc> adg just branched a new weekly tag 03:38 < dfc> so it's responding to diff between the last weekly and the new one 03:38 < Archwyrm> Ah 03:46 < Archwyrm> Anyone know of any plans to infer floating point division from a line like `var inc float64 = 1 / 60`, inc is 0 unless the divisor is a floating point constant (e.g.: 60.0)? I did a quick search on the tracker but didn't see anything. 03:49 < Archwyrm> Spec doesn't seem to say much about division either but the specific case is probably covered elsewhere. 03:49 < |Craig|> Archwyrm: to me that seems like adding an additional rule that complicates a currently simple and well defined part of the language, while gaining no clarity of code or functionality. it just saves 2 characters in a few spots 03:50 < Archwyrm> Maybe. I believe that the only other language where I have experienced this problem is with Python and it can be a source of bugs if you aren't careful. 03:51 < |Craig|> Python is a rather huge language rule wise, I like that go is not that way 03:52 < |Craig|> That said, I like all the crazy things I can do in python :) 03:52 < nickbp> agreeing with craig, having '1 / 60' automatically become a float isnt immediately obvious 03:52 < Archwyrm> Indeed. :) 03:52 < nickbp> better off just being explicit 03:52 < Archwyrm> Even if the left hand side *is* explicit? 03:52 < |Craig|> can you just say '1. / 60' of do you need 1.0? 03:53 < jessta_> Archwyrm: that is also a source of bugs 03:53 < nickbp> well, who knows if you really wanted it to be 0, converted to a float 03:53 < Archwyrm> I originally had `inc := 1 / 60` but the compiler complained later on when I tried to pass that to a function expecting float64 and I kind of misread the error. 03:53 < nickbp> if you do an explicit cast then there isnt that ambiguity 03:54 < |Craig|> being able to express anything is the source of bugs :) 03:54 < Archwyrm> |Craig|: 1. / 60 works 03:54 < Archwyrm> jessta_, nickbp: True and true. 03:55 < nickbp> also dont know the context of your code but you might be better off holding the / 60 until after the increment is done 03:55 < nickbp> no idea if itd make much difference but couldnt hurt 03:55 < nickbp> (both avoiding floating point math and avoiding floating point drift) 03:55 < Archwyrm> I think I prefer to explicitly truncate or round and would like my math to do as it would on paper (as idealistic as that may be especially where floating point is concerned). 03:56 < |Craig|> I honestly thing the way to solve the issue in the language if its a problem would be to make you not be able to assign floats from ints without explicit conversions 03:56 < |Craig|> but I don't see it as a problem 03:57 < Archwyrm> nickbp: Yeah, there will be an error here. That goes directly into a 3D vector which gets repeatedly added to another vector, but the inaccuracy is fine. 03:57 < nickbp> oic 03:58 < Archwyrm> |Craig|: Yeah, that would have been immediately obvious. Instead it was zero and I was wondering why the other vector wasn't changing. :) 04:00 -!- prip [~foo@host229-123-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01 < |Craig|> I know, we can make everyone happy with this: We can make a version of go that requires explicit type conversions with assignments, and have a script to add/remove them from existing code as part of gofmt! Then every one can have what they want, and extra chaos too! 04:01 < nickbp> aaaaaa 04:02 < Archwyrm> hehe 04:02 < |Craig|> This language fork brought to you by incompatible code corp 04:03 < Archwyrm> I do like the explicit casts in most cases though. This was just the corner case for me, I guess. ;) 04:06 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.225.29] has quit [Quit: Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 04:08 -!- nettok [~quassel@200.119.160.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:12 < jessta_> Archwyrm: http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Constants 04:14 < jessta_> 1/60 is 0 because they are integers 04:15 < Archwyrm> jessta_: Yes, I see that in there. 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and is there any way to limit the number of os threads used by the go runtime? 06:26 < dfc> anything that calls syscall.Syscall6 06:26 < dfc> or to put it another way 06:27 < dfc> anything that does not call syscall.Rawsyscal6 06:27 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:27 < taruti> not all syscalls result in the creation of a new proc 06:28 < dfc> http://code.google.com/p/go/source/browse/src/pkg/syscall/asm_darwin_386.s#13 06:28 < dfc> as i understand it 06:28 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-131-205.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:28 < dfc> the call to runtime.entersyscall gives the runtime the chance to decide if if should spawn a new thread 06:29 < dfc> as you're about to call a syscall which could block 06:29 < dfc> it's up to the runtime to decide to spin up a new os thread 06:30 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has joined #go-nuts 06:32 < taruti> dfc: ok, got it :) 06:32 < taruti> hacked runtime.enter/leavesyscall and now things do work :) 06:34 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-179-18.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 06:35 -!- dfc [~dfc@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:37 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@113.84.149.28] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:38 < uriel> taruti: anything that blocks will cause a new os thread, as for limiting OS threads, that has been discussed in the mailing list recently 06:39 < taruti> uriel: I just made mcpu not decrease while calling a syscall, that fixed it 06:45 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Kxk9SZ by [Rob Pike] in 37 subdirs of go/ -- os: New Open API. 06:46 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-4a5a6ee5.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46 < taruti> the new open api so breaks all existing code :( 06:47 < rm445> yow, did they go ahead with that? 06:48 < rm445> Seems a bit extreme, to break the similarity to the traditional UNIX open() rather than add a new function 06:48 < nickbp> did they go ahead with that? 06:48 < rm445> I'm sure this has all been hashed out on the lists, but I still find it a bit surprising 06:48 < taruti> yes :( 06:52 -!- jokoon [~jorinovsk@LMontsouris-156-26-32-176.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #go-nuts 06:52 < jnwhiteh> doesn't seem like it was discussed at all on the CL 06:52 < jnwhiteh> wonder what the motivation behind it was 06:53 < taruti> jnwhiteh: there was a thread on golang-dev 06:53 < jnwhiteh> ah, gotcha 06:53 < jnwhiteh> I'll look that up 06:53 < jnwhiteh> These days I just watch for those packages I have to worry about, i.e. http and misc/vim =) 06:54 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 06:54 < dforsyth_> woah, this happened already? 06:54 < jnwhiteh> was submitted an hour and 20 minutes ago =) 06:55 < dforsyth_> did r bring this up on golang-dev like just this morning? 06:55 < dforsyth_> that was quick 06:55 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@88.118.35.153] has joined #go-nuts 06:55 < dforsyth_> didn't* 06:56 < jnwhiteh> http://codereview.appspot.com/4357052 06:57 < dforsyth_> i dont mind it, im just surprised at how fast it went in 06:57 < jnwhiteh> aye 06:57 < dforsyth_> i figured people would debate it :P 06:57 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 06:57 < dforsyth_> guess not 06:59 < jnwhiteh> Updating won't be difficult, due to gofix and the API does seem a bit more Go-ish =) 06:59 < jnwhiteh> *shrug* 07:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/gy6fLM by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/os/ -- os: fix windows build 07:03 -!- marten [~marten@62.21.178.171] has joined #go-nuts 07:03 -!- wrtp [~rog@2.97.144.60] has joined #go-nuts 07:03 -!- Guest80646 [~foo@host101-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:04 -!- ccount [~ccount@aleph0.de] has left #go-nuts ["WeeChat 0.3.4"] 07:07 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09 -!- piranha [~piranha@D57D1AB3.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #go-nuts 07:13 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 07:18 -!- prip [~foo@host194-122-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 07:21 < jessta_> I like it. Open() has always bugged me in C 07:24 < dforsyth_> i think the new function should have been name openfile or ropen or something instead of breaking the normal open format 07:24 < dforsyth_> but meh 07:24 < dforsyth_> ive already updated my code 07:30 < uriel> 06:46 < taruti> the new open api so breaks all existing code :( 07:30 < uriel> taruti: that is what gofix is for 07:36 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has joined #go-nuts 07:46 -!- dosade [~afhawe@210.9.143.155] has joined #go-nuts 07:50 -!- erutinruf [~afhawe@61.69.3.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:04 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has joined #go-nuts 08:10 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-131-205.tc.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: itrekkie] 08:12 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has joined #go-nuts 08:13 -!- arvindht_ [c2ed8e11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.17] has joined #go-nuts 08:17 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 08:24 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has joined #go-nuts 08:27 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.255.3] has joined #go-nuts 08:28 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.255.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: drhodes, Natch|, homa_rano, yebyen, rlab, cbeck, dfr|work, KBme, arun, statik_, (+14 more, use /NETSPLIT to show all of them) 08:38 < nsf> wow, new weekly doesn't break gocode, yay! 08:38 < nsf> gettin' stable 08:39 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@113.84.149.28] has joined #go-nuts 08:41 -!- Netsplit over, joins: KBme, arun, niekie, tvw, piranha, rlab, homa_rano, ttblrs_, kanru, pothos (+14 more) 08:54 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: ahihi2, edsrzf, apexo, leczb__ 08:57 -!- edsrzf [~chickench@122-61-221-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #go-nuts 08:57 -!- apexo [~apexo@2a01:238:436b:8301:5054:ff:fe87:82fb] has joined #go-nuts 08:57 -!- leczb__ [~leczb@nat/google/x-lebjyuxoxxofdqce] has joined #go-nuts 08:57 -!- ahihi2 [~transient@cs27123003.pp.htv.fi] has joined #go-nuts 09:07 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has joined #go-nuts 09:07 -!- Count_Niedar [~bleh@ip68-99-166-222.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:11 -!- Niedar [~bleh@ip68-99-166-222.hr.hr.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:14 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14 -!- cirno_ [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has joined #go-nuts 09:16 < taruti> Is it possible to write unversioned go libraries? i.e. make 8l output just the architecture into the object file instead of [go object $(GOOS) (GOARCH) <version>] ? 09:17 < taruti> s/8l/8g probably 09:27 < edsrzf> taruti: just browsing the source, it doesn't look like there's a way 09:42 -!- cirno_ [~cirno@194.186.220.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:43 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.83.60] has joined #go-nuts 09:43 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.255.8] has joined #go-nuts 09:47 -!- anth_ [~a@72-160-85-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #go-nuts 09:47 -!- Project_2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-179-18.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:49 -!- anth [~a@72-160-98-179.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:51 -!- edsrzf [~chickench@122-61-221-144.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52 -!- leczb__ [~leczb@nat/google/x-lebjyuxoxxofdqce] has left #go-nuts ["Konversation terminated!"] 09:57 -!- randfur [~AndChat@58.145.148.89] has quit [Quit: Bye] 09:57 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.255.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:00 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 10:06 -!- elimisteve [~elimistev@pool-71-102-138-52.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:11 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-190.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 10:21 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.225.26] has joined #go-nuts 10:27 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-oqzplmrtfeegebde] has joined #go-nuts 10:36 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-147-226-14.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #go-nuts 10:38 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.225.26] has quit [Quit: Yow! 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Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 11:22 -!- Xenith [~xenith@xenith.org] has joined #go-nuts 11:26 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56344e3e.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #go-nuts 11:45 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 11:48 -!- artefon [~thiago@bananal.lbd.dcc.ufmg.br] has joined #go-nuts 11:57 -!- zeroXten [~zeroXten@0x10.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 11:58 -!- shvntr [~shvntr@113.84.149.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:04 < nsf> new Open API :( 12:04 < taruti> yes :( 12:04 < nsf> two common cases and OpenFile as syscall Open 12:04 < nsf> hm.. 12:05 < nsf> I like C's version more 12:05 < nsf> "w" "rw" "r" "a" etc 12:07 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:08 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-190.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:12 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-24-11-39-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:13 -!- zerosanity [~josh@8.20.178.82] has joined #go-nuts 12:15 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #go-nuts 12:18 < wrtp> nsf: you'd have difficulty extending the stdio string to cover all the os.O_ constants and still have it so memorable... 12:18 < nsf> I won't do that 12:18 < nsf> I will have syscall-like Open 12:18 < nsf> and FOpen 12:18 < nsf> and no weird "Create" 12:18 < nsf> FOpen with C's fopen semantics 12:19 < wrtp> i think it makes sense to have Create be a separate call 12:19 < wrtp> and if you look at the changes to the source tree, almost all calls to create a file were of the same form, so it makes sense. 12:19 < nsf> I don't think so 12:21 < wrtp> i think it would be weird (as it is in C) to have two different ways to express the same flags 12:26 < aiju> O_CREATE considered harmful 12:27 < wrtp> i have to say that with the latest changes, gofix found a few bugs in my code, where i hadn't passed O_TRUNC to Open but should have 12:29 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 12:30 < aiju> using O_CREATE without O_TRUNC is really weird 12:30 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@80.250.216.102] has joined #go-nuts 12:31 < exch> O_CREATE by itself should probably imply both creation and truncation, depending on the situation 12:31 < wrtp> aiju: it can be useful, particularly in conjunction with O_EXCL 12:32 < wrtp> e.g. to open a shared data file 12:32 < wrtp> no, sorry, i'm talking bollocks 12:32 < wrtp> but it can be useful for opening shared data files 12:33 < aiju> wrtp: i'm sure it might be useful ... 12:34 < wrtp> doing it that way guards against the race that two processes might try to open the file, fail and both create the same file, one truncating what the other writes. 12:47 < kamaji> in a switch, can I do case foo: case bar: case qux: /* do stuff */ 12:48 < kamaji> I really should've used Buffer for this :D 12:58 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:58 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 13:00 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-24-11-39-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:04 < wrtp> kamaji: you can, but it might not do what you want 13:04 < wrtp> kamaji: you can also do case foo, bar, qux: /* do stuff */ 13:05 < wrtp> is that what you're after? 13:05 < kamaji> wrtp: looks like 13:05 < kamaji> same outcome for many conditions basically 13:05 < kamaji> i'm assuming case foo: case bar: etc. will only execute the last one? 13:06 < wrtp> kamaji: it'll execute the appropriate case 13:06 < wrtp> kamaji: same as (in C) case foo: break; case bar: break; etc 13:08 < kamaji> right ok 13:08 < kamaji> luckily I originally had it like that and my unit test didn't fail, so I found a bug in my test :D 13:09 < wrtp> no automatic fallthrough in go 13:09 < kamaji> no break either, right? 13:09 < kamaji> in case anyway 13:09 < kamaji> oh that makes case loops easier :o 13:11 < kamaji> thanks :D 13:14 < wrtp> you can do break, yes 13:14 < wrtp> so it doesn't make case loops easier :-) 13:14 < wrtp> (although you can label a loop and break label) 13:16 < kamaji> Why does it need break if there's no fall through? 13:16 < kamaji> also, "fallthrough" directly translated to German means Diarrhoea 13:16 < kamaji> fun fact. 13:16 < aiju> kamaji: hahahahaha 13:16 < aiju> i never noticed that 13:16 < kamaji> :D 13:16 < kamaji> I'm pretty sure that's my favourite german word 13:17 < kamaji> but then there's so many other great ones like Rindfleisch 13:18 < aiju> Rindfleischverpackungsettiketierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz 13:19 < exch> :p 13:19 < aiju> name of an actual law 13:19 < exch> great scrabble word 13:20 < kamaji> I was just looking for that word :D 13:20 < wrtp> kamaji: you don't need it, but can be useful 13:21 < kamaji> wrtp: but if there's no Durchfall then what does it do? 13:23 < wrtp> breaks anyway 13:24 < kamaji> hnnnnng :p 13:31 < marten> Is there a quick way to get the actual memory usage of a data structure and the data it contains? 13:31 < wrtp> marten: no 13:31 < zerosanity> yay for godag 13:31 < wrtp> marten: although it's easy enough if you know when the structure is being allocated 13:32 < wrtp> marten: the difficulty is that the data it contains may have loops and may be shared with other data structures 13:33 < wrtp> zerosanity: goinstall is getting there... 13:34 < marten> wrtp: makes sense :) I would like to know how much memory my custom cache uses. Unfortunately I can't use something like ps or top because memory is not returned to the system and while processing my program uses a lot of memory. 13:34 < marten> I've glanced over runtime.MemProfile but am not sure whether that's what I need 13:35 < wrtp> marten: runtime.MemStats is often useful 13:36 < marten> wrtp: ah, thanks! Will try it 13:43 < electro_> lets see if i can word this question in a way that makes sense: 13:43 < electro_> I have an fixedsize array of struct called 'extent' 13:43 < electro_> its made, but its empty 13:44 < electro_> i want to fill it with data via a function, so i want to send it piece by piece as a pointer 13:44 < electro_> im using '&[SomeIndexInt]extent' as an arg to a func 13:44 < electro_> and getting syntax error 13:44 < electro_> what am i doing wrong here? 13:46 < exch> indexing an array/slice is done like: arr[idx] 13:48 < electro_> so just '&extent[index]' instead? 13:48 < exch> yes 13:48 < wrtp> electro_: you can turn a fixed size array into a slice by slicing it, if you need to, e.g. extend[:] 13:48 < wrtp> s/extend/extent 13:50 < kamaji> do I have to declare a slice of struct like this: foo := []mystruct{mystruct{x,y,z}, mystruct{x,y,z}} or is there a shorthand? 13:50 < skelterjohn> morning 13:50 < kamaji> afternoon 13:51 < wrtp> kamaji: foo := []mystruct{{x, y, z}, {x, y, z}} 13:51 < kamaji> wrtp: thanks! 13:51 < electro_> thank you, it seemed to work 13:51 < kamaji> I was hoping I could do that 13:51 < electro_> not sure since suddenly a whole host of new errors appeared 13:52 < wrtp> electro_: BTW fixed size arrays are relatively rare - it's much more common to just use a slice 13:52 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 13:52 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.82.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53 < skelterjohn> oh, just got your email, wrtp 13:53 < skelterjohn> i'll check it out 13:54 < electro_> wrtp: i know the size of it beforehand and i need to fill it irregularly, meaning i most likely will not start from 0 13:54 < electro_> will slices still work? 13:54 < wrtp> yes 13:54 < electro_> oh, right then 13:54 < electro_> thank you 13:54 < kamaji> using awk to generate code :D 13:54 < aiju> awk is always a good idea 13:54 < aiju> no matter what for 13:55 < kamaji> Definitely 13:55 < skelterjohn> awk is always a terrible idea 13:55 < wrtp> skelterjohn: BTW i've removed parser.Declarations 13:55 < aiju> skelterjohn: hwo so? 13:55 < skelterjohn> ok 13:55 < aiju> you prefer Perl or C++? ;P 13:55 < wrtp> i tend to agree with skelterjohn 13:55 < aiju> or something else horribly fucked up 13:55 < skelterjohn> aiju: I've never once used awk, and I have lived alright so far 13:55 < skelterjohn> therefore awk is bad 13:55 < wrtp> although perl is worse 13:55 < aiju> hahaha 13:56 < wrtp> skelterjohn: what do you use for one-liner shell scripts? 13:56 < kamaji> perl 6 supports user defined unicode operators 13:56 < kamaji> what could possibly go wrong 13:56 < skelterjohn> i don't write a lot of one-liner shell scripts, i guess 13:56 < kamaji> holy crap you could overload ZWS 13:56 < skelterjohn> but if anything, python 13:56 < aiju> perl probably has a nuclear fission operator 13:56 < wrtp> the thing i use awk for mostly is just: awk '{print $5}' 13:57 < aiju> i use awk from all kind of shit 13:57 < wrtp> and simple arithmetic 13:57 < skelterjohn> what's special about $5? 13:57 < kamaji> awk '{print "{\"" $2 "\", \"" $4 "\", 0},"}' RULES > STEP2 13:57 < kamaji> for w maybe? 13:57 < kamaji> nope :\ 13:57 < wrtp> skelterjohn: it's the size field in ls -l :-) 13:57 < skelterjohn> ah 13:58 < wrtp> awk '$1 > x {x = $1} END {print x}' 13:58 < wrtp> it's still a fairly crap language 13:58 < aiju> define fairly crap 13:58 < wrtp> the syntax is a bodge, and the handling of type conversions is dreadful 13:59 < aiju> it is a very special purpose language 13:59 < aiju> and it does its job really well 13:59 < aiju> i wouldn't use it for production code 13:59 < kamaji> I just use it as a command line toool 13:59 < wrtp> aiju: "If you think awk is the perfect programming language for the problem, you don't understand the problem yet. -Rob Pike" 13:59 < skelterjohn> woo, os.Open/Create 14:00 < aiju> wrtp: what has happened to Pike 14:00 < skelterjohn> aiju: that's the whole "arguing from authority" thing I was talking about yesterday :) 14:00 < wrtp> lol 14:01 < wrtp> the reason it's bad is that it's very easy to get wrong 14:01 < aiju> you mean like regex? 14:01 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@80.250.216.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01 < wrtp> no, i mean the semantics of the language 14:02 < aiju> huh? 14:02 < wrtp> no local variable declarations... 14:02 < wrtp> strings turn into numbers without warning 14:02 < skelterjohn> that's also one of regexp's disadvantages 14:03 < skelterjohn> regexp also has a bunch of pros, mostly related to conciseness 14:03 < skelterjohn> man, eclipse has got to be the slowest text editor ever written 14:03 < aiju> i use neither awk nor regexp in super serious code 14:03 < aiju> for these reasons 14:03 < kamaji> skelterjohn: regexps for speed too 14:04 < aiju> but i love them for generic data processing etc 14:04 < kamaji> cause they're strictly RLs aren't they? 14:07 < aiju> and if you need local variables in awk code, you're horribly misusing awk 14:08 < skelterjohn> wrtp: updates to types look great 14:09 < skelterjohn> kamaji: the speed is an effect of the fact that they can be turned into DFA 14:09 < skelterjohn> you could make something else to do that too 14:09 < kamaji> I know, but it's still an advantage :p 14:09 < skelterjohn> that would be a bit more verbose, but perhaps easier to read/check 14:10 < kamaji> well a pro, even 14:10 < skelterjohn> kamaji: it's a feature of the class of problem it solves. 14:10 < wrtp> skelterjohn: cool 14:11 < kamaji> oh I see what you mean 14:14 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.96.22] has joined #go-nuts 14:15 -!- plainhao [~plainhao@208.75.85.237] has joined #go-nuts 14:16 -!- tvw [~tv@212.79.9.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.83.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20 < skelterjohn> wrtp: actually i'm still having an issue 14:21 < wrtp> skelterjohn: go on (but be quick, 'cos i've got to go 15 minutes ago :-]) 14:21 < skelterjohn> when the package name doesn't match anything found in the import path, it has trouble connecting references to that package to the import spec 14:22 -!- skelterjohn_ [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:23 < skelterjohn_> stupid router 14:23 < skelterjohn_> wrtp: actually i'm still having an issue 14:23 < skelterjohn_> when the package name doesn't match anything found in the import path, it has trouble connecting references to that package to the import spec 14:23 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24 < steven> whats the longest compile+link-time you guys have ever seen for something written in Go? 14:24 -!- rejb [~rejb@unaffiliated/rejb] has joined #go-nuts 14:24 < wrtp> skelterjohn: the package name should match the end of the import path 14:24 < wrtp> that's a design decision i took, prompted by russ 14:24 < skelterjohn> i understand that for your lib to work, that needs to be the case 14:24 < skelterjohn> but it's not part of the spec 14:25 < wrtp> agreed 14:25 < wrtp> but it means that you can choose the identifier for a package without importing it, which makes things considerably quicker 14:26 < wrtp> i suggested that it be made part of the standard, but the response was "just assume that anyway - there's no problem with that" 14:27 < skelterjohn> i wonder - is the only way for an ident to have a nil object, with compilable code, to have it represent an unnnamed package? 14:28 < skelterjohn> it's the only way a name can be in scope without being the source, i think 14:28 < wrtp> i think so 14:28 < wrtp> oh yes, the other thing i don't support either is import dot. 14:28 < skelterjohn> so maybe i can hack your types.exprType to check out imported packages when it sees that 14:29 < skelterjohn> heh, gorf doesn't like imported . either 14:29 < wrtp> nobody should use it :-) 14:29 < skelterjohn> i agree 14:29 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #go-nuts 14:29 < wrtp> skelterjohn: when do you ever have package identifiers that don't work that way? 14:29 < wrtp> i mean paths 14:30 < skelterjohn> well, when i use gorf to move a package, for one :) 14:30 < wrtp> the package path should always end in the package identifier 14:30 < skelterjohn> easiest to make changes one bit at a time 14:31 < skelterjohn> also for gorf splitting off Decls from a package, it would complicated that procedure significantly if i had to pick a special name for the new package, too 14:32 < wrtp> skelterjohn: you don't have to pick a special name for the package, just a new directory 14:33 < wrtp> e.g. somepkgdir/apkg -> somepkgdir/decls/apkg 14:33 < skelterjohn> btw i wish you used github instead of googlecode, so i could fork your types lib without having to choose a new global googlecode project id 14:33 < wrtp> skelterjohn: why do you want to fork it? 14:34 < skelterjohn> and without all your experiments being in a single thing 14:34 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:35 < wrtp> yeah, i should create some new projects for some of the different things probably 14:35 < skelterjohn> oh actually - i can just look at a nil Ident.Obj on my end, duh 14:36 < wrtp> thing is, i don't want to move it from experimental stage until gri finishes his parser stuff so i can get rid of my parser fork 14:37 < wrtp> skelterjohn: that should work 14:37 < steven> go's interesting factor is goroutines and channels 14:38 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:38 < wrtp> skelterjohn: it's not too different from how go/parser works now - except that you'll have to scan the whole source instead of having a convenient list of unresolved symbols 14:38 < aiju> steven: and interfaces 14:38 < steven> other than that, it seems like an equal trade-off with something like ruby or scala 14:38 < wrtp> steven: and interfaces 14:38 < aiju> and minimalism 14:38 < wrtp> jinx 14:38 < steven> maybe. 14:38 < steven> interface{} is just as unsafe as ruby's duck-typing though 14:39 < aiju> don't do that then 14:39 < wrtp> steven: interface{} isn't that much used 14:39 < steven> runtime panics caused by bad assertions 14:39 < skelterjohn> still it'd be nice to fork your stuff easily :) 14:39 < steven> true enough 14:39 < steven> also, Go doesnt allow FP very easily 14:39 < steven> when do we get generics already? 14:40 < wrtp> steven: the particularly nice thing about interfaces vs duck typing is that a type assertion can check many levels of type instantly, whereas duck typing just checks one member at a time (or one class) 14:40 < steven> wrtp: true its faster 14:40 < steven> go has speed going for it 14:41 < wrtp> it's not just the speed, it's the safety and consistency 14:41 < steven> but it lacks good FP abilities because of lack of generics 14:41 < aiju> steven: what the fuck are you even talking about 14:41 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41 < steven> im still stuck on that. 14:41 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.82.30] has joined #go-nuts 14:41 < aiju> FP = floating point? 14:41 < wrtp> functional programming 14:41 < aiju> oh lol 14:41 < aiju> every time you overload an acronym, god kills a kitten 14:42 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:42 < skelterjohn> once again i feel like a dumbass, talking to no one as my connection drops 14:43 < aiju> skelterjohn: get a fucking bouncer 14:43 < wrtp> skelterjohn: last i saw from you was "still it'd be nice to fork ..." 14:43 < skelterjohn> oh, that's the last thing i said 14:43 < skelterjohn> aiju: I don't know what a bouncer is 14:43 < kamaji> everything went better than expected 14:43 < steven> without generic functions like Map and Filter and Reject, Go still feels very raw 14:43 < steven> (not in the good way) 14:43 < skelterjohn> or why it needs to be fucking 14:44 < aiju> steven: wtf? 14:44 < steven> skelterjohn: do you have a server running all the time somewhere other than your computer? 14:44 < aiju> skelterjohn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC_bouncer 14:44 < skelterjohn> steven: like i said, let the ends justify the means - don't let the means justify themselves. 14:44 < steven> aiju: when i have to use for-loops to map one slice into another slice, thats pretty lame. 14:45 < wrtp> steven: depends how much work you're doing in the for loop 14:45 < aiju> no, it's actually fast ;P 14:45 < aiju> using map/filter usually makes me iterate over the same array four times and more 14:45 < wrtp> steven: i usually find that the amount of code that i'd write is about the same 14:45 < steven> its not about code amount 14:45 < aiju> and for-loops are much more easily understandable imho 14:45 < aiju> it is about gayness amount 14:45 < steven> you seem to miss the point 14:45 < aiju> which non-hip programming lacks 14:45 < steven> nevermind. god bless you aiju 14:46 < skelterjohn> steven: generics is *all* about the code amount 14:46 < wrtp> for i, v := range a {b[i] = f(v) } vs b = map(a, func(v) {return v}) 14:46 < wrtp> they're not too different really 14:46 < skelterjohn> the only reason at all to have generics is to not rewrite code 14:46 < skelterjohn> otherwise it's just "cool to be cool" 14:47 < wrtp> skelterjohn: that's true 14:47 < skelterjohn> and it's important to realize that generics are a tool to get things done - not something that needs to get done itself 14:47 < steven> skelterjohn: no, its not. 14:48 -!- jokoon [~jorinovsk@LMontsouris-156-26-32-176.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:48 < steven> to me its first about safety, and secondly clarity 14:48 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #go-nuts 14:48 < skelterjohn> generics is about having safety and clarity without rewriting code 14:48 < skelterjohn> (notice the last part of the statement) 14:48 < skelterjohn> you can still have safety and clarity if you rewrite the code 14:49 < steven> nevermind 14:49 < steven> lets just agree to disagree 14:49 < aiju> generics are about safety? 14:49 < ww> generics --> dry 14:49 < aiju> how that? 14:49 < aiju> the only reason Go would need generics is spee 14:49 < aiju> it has interfaces 14:49 < aiju> *speed 14:49 < ww> aiju: because if you have to copy-paste code 1000 times without generics, there's more of a chance for error 14:50 < ww> isn't spee laundry detergent? 14:50 < skelterjohn> ww: 1000 times is a lot of times 14:50 * ww might be exaggerating a little 14:50 < ww> but still, cut-and-paste a bunch of times... oops find an error... have to fix them all... forget to fix one... 14:50 < skelterjohn> i say that because i feel it's important to talk about code that is actually written, rather than code that could, hypothetically, be written 14:51 < skelterjohn> ww: in that case, use interface{} and then if you want compile-time type checking, write a wrapper for that type 14:52 < skelterjohn> don't get me wrong, i think generics-done-right would be a good addition to the language 14:52 < ww> skelterjohn: yes, that's better than nothing 14:52 < skelterjohn> but generics-for-their-own-sake is a bad idea, and is likely to get done poorly 14:54 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.255.6] has joined #go-nuts 14:54 < aiju> generics and interfaces are pretty fucking similar 14:55 < uriel> yawn 14:55 < ww> hilbert curves? 14:57 < aiju> now uriel, what do you think about generic in go? ;P 14:58 < uriel> i think nobody should give a fuck what I think, and that people so obsessed with the topic should find something better to do with their boring lives 14:58 < uriel> something like writing code 15:00 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01 -!- karpar [~user@112.96.255.6] has quit [Quit: Yow! Legally-imposed CULTURE-reduction is CABBAGE-BRAINED!] 15:02 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 15:04 < aiju> hahaha 15:05 < steven> aiju: try writing Map with interfaces 15:06 < wrtp> aiju: interfaces and generics are duals of each other 15:06 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ILVCjr by [Yasuhiro Matsumoto] in go/src/pkg/crypto/des/ -- crypto/des: new package providing implementations of DES and TDEA 15:06 < ww> isn't DES obsolete yet? 15:07 -!- xyproto [~alexander@77.40.159.131] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #go-nuts 15:08 < steven> not if anyone uses it ;) 15:08 < steven> wrtp: how would you write Map with interfaces then? 15:10 -!- napsy [~luka@193.2.66.6] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:10 < wrtp> steven: you'd just operate on []interface{} 15:11 < wrtp> and func(x interface{}) interface{} 15:11 < skelterjohn> that's an unsatisfying answer, considering all the legwork you'd need to do to change your []T to a []interface{} 15:12 < skelterjohn> and vice versa 15:12 < steven> wrtp: so i can pass in []string and get back []int? 15:12 < skelterjohn> steven: he didn't even come close to saying that :\ 15:12 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 15:12 < wrtp> thing is, for map it's a non-issue because map is so trivial 15:13 < wrtp> when the code gets bigger, the relative overhead of converting to/from interface{} becomes smaller 15:14 < wrtp> higher order functions are not a necessity - they are a convenience 15:14 -!- marten [~marten@62.21.178.171] has quit [Quit: marten] 15:14 < steven> so is Go 15:14 < steven> go write in C dude. 15:14 < wrtp> (that's not to say that i wouldn't like to see generics) 15:14 < steven> apparently thats what youre looking for 15:15 < steven> go use C ptr callbacks with void* contexts 15:15 < wrtp> i'm not saying that generics wouldn't be useful, but noone has come up with a decent design yet 15:15 < wrtp> and lots of people have been thinking hard about it 15:15 < steven> ok then, thats a different story 15:15 < steven> they already started working on it 15:15 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: skelterjohn] 15:15 < wrtp> no, they started thinking about it 15:16 < steven> they already started adding it to the specs, remember? 15:16 < wrtp> it's hard, because go already has one kind of polymorphism, and generics have to fit with that 15:16 < wrtp> steven: i didn't see that 15:16 < wrtp> steven: got a link? 15:16 < steven> it had dicussion of specialized functions and other stuff 15:16 < wrtp> i never saw it 15:16 < steven> the link was only available for a few hours, after which they made it private 15:17 < wrtp> i'd love to see a copy 15:17 < steven> i believe |craig| saw it too 15:17 < steven> i wonder if its in my chrome cache 15:17 < steven> i know others in here saw it too 15:18 -!- exch [~exch@31-151-123-254.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18 -!- exch [~exch@31-151-123-254.dynamic.upc.nl] has joined #go-nuts 15:19 -!- xyproto [~alexander@77.40.159.131] has joined #go-nuts 15:21 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has joined #go-nuts 15:22 < plexdev> http://is.gd/Sp5eig by [Russ Cox] in 4 subdirs of go/ -- gofix: don't rewrite O_APPEND opens 15:25 -!- katakuna [~pie@kjal.demon.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 15:26 -!- exch [~exch@31-151-123-254.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27 -!- exch [~exch@31.151.123.254] has joined #go-nuts 15:28 -!- piranha [~piranha@D57D1AB3.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:30 -!- hopso [~hopso@a91-152-183-181.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #go-nuts 15:30 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 15:53 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 15:55 -!- wrtp [~rog@2.97.144.60] has quit [Quit: wrtp] 15:55 -!- Eko [~eko@70-90-168-189-SFBACalifornia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:01 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:03 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:07 -!- djcapeli1 [~djc@capelis.dj] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 -!- djcapeli1 [~djc@capelis.dj] has quit [Changing host] 16:07 -!- djcapeli1 [~djc@blender/coder/DJCapelis] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 -!- kamaji_ [~kamaji@cpc2-aztw22-2-0-cust775.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:07 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@vaserv/irc/founder] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:07 -!- kamaji [~kamaji@cpc2-aztw22-2-0-cust775.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:07 -!- djcapelis [~djc@blender/coder/DJCapelis] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:09 -!- frobnitz_ [~ian@king.bitgnome.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:10 -!- Archwyrm [~archwyrm@archwyrm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:10 -!- frobnitz [~ian@king.bitgnome.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:10 -!- dropdrive [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:10 -!- aconran__ [~aconran-o@38.104.129.126] has joined #go-nuts 16:11 -!- werdan7 [~w7@freenode/staff/wikimedia.werdan7] has joined #go-nuts 16:11 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:11 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:11 -!- jyxent [~jyxent@129.128.191.96] has joined #go-nuts 16:12 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has joined #go-nuts 16:12 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 16:12 -!- evildho [~dho@onager.omniti.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:12 -!- aconran_ [~aconran-o@38.104.129.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@c-68-35-229-34.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:13 -!- evildho [~dho@onager.omniti.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:13 -!- aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:13 -!- aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has joined #go-nuts 16:14 -!- Archwyrm [~archwyrm@archwyrm.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:14 -!- dropdrive [~dropdrive@cpe-72-227-159-70.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:18 -!- leczb [~leczb@nat/google/x-xcldrrghbaapoiim] has joined #go-nuts 16:20 < steven> hey iant were you one of the guys who saw the generics spec change that one night before it was made private? 16:21 <+iant> we're continuing to discuss various different ideas about generics 16:21 <+iant> I don't think anything has really changed on that front 16:21 <+iant> I think it's more likely than not that we'll have a proposal to send to golang-dev at some point 16:22 <+iant> but I don't know when, and it's not for sure 16:23 < steven> so, you do know about the thing im refering to? 16:23 <+iant> I do 16:23 < steven> snap! 16:24 <+iant> but I don't really want to discuss it in detail, since probably all of the details will change 16:24 < steven> k 16:24 < steven> can you say who is involved? 16:24 <+iant> so I would just be unintentionally misleading 16:24 <+iant> the whole Google Go team has been discussing it, slowly, for months 16:24 < steven> shawwwwwwww 16:24 < steven> ok thanks for the info. 16:24 < steven> i will sadly walk away and go back to ruby :( 16:25 <+iant> sure, I know it's an issue that matters to people 16:25 <+iant> but like everything else we want to make sure that if we do it it is pretty much right 16:25 -!- cafesofie [~cafesofie@ool-4a5a6ee5.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:27 -!- fzzbt_ [~jahman@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has joined #go-nuts 16:29 -!- fzzbt [~jahman@melkinpaasi.cs.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:29 -!- jnwhiteh [~jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:29 -!- enferex [~enferex@users.757.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:29 -!- elimisteve [~elimistev@pool-71-102-138-52.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:29 -!- enferex_ [~enferex@users.757.org] has joined #go-nuts 16:30 -!- jnwhiteh_ [~jnwhiteh@li37-84.members.linode.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:30 -!- bartbes [~bartbes@love/developer/bartbes] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:30 -!- bartbes [~bartbes@love/developer/bartbes] has joined #go-nuts 16:30 -!- archevan [~archevan@67.69.227.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:31 -!- l00t [~i-i3id3r_@189.105.7.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:32 -!- nickbp [~eqoaq@216.93.241.7.askonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:32 -!- nickbp [~eqoaq@216.93.241.7.askonline.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- chaos95_ [chaos95@mafianode.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- serbaut [~joakims@88.80.182.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34 -!- serbaut1 [~joakims@88.80.182.68] has joined #go-nuts 16:34 -!- str1ngs [~strings@unaffiliated/str1ngs] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34 -!- chaos95 [chaos95@mafianode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34 -!- andman_ [~andman@antiflash.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:34 -!- andman [~andman@antiflash.org] has joined #go-nuts 16:35 < uriel> 16:25 <+iant> sure, I know it's an issue that matters to people 16:35 < uriel> mostly to people that don't bother to learn to program in Go 16:35 <+iant> that is an argument, yes 16:36 -!- KBme [~KBme@2001:470:1f13:94::3] has joined #go-nuts 16:36 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:36 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has joined #go-nuts 16:40 -!- jlouis_ [jlouis@horus.0x90.dk] has joined #go-nuts 16:40 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED43A0B.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #go-nuts 16:42 -!- KBme [~KBme@2001:470:1f13:94::3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:42 -!- l00t [~i-i3id3r_@189.105.7.59] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 < skelterjohn> it's sort of a tricky balancing act - the goal of "successful" is not entirely clear. it's somewhere between "effective" and "popular" 16:46 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 -!- aimxhais1e [~mxs@buffout.org] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 -!- ville-_ [ville@xollo.net] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 < skelterjohn> adding generics right away might give a popularity boost, but might be at an effectiveness cost 16:46 -!- kimelto_ [~kimelto@sd-13453.dedibox.fr] has joined #go-nuts 16:46 -!- btipling [~btipling@unaffiliated/sk/x-5968384] has joined #go-nuts 16:47 -!- Netsplit *.net <-> *.split quits: zimsim, aimxhaisse, kimelto, btipling_, jlouis, Fish-, ville- 16:47 < skelterjohn> but popularity -> bigger community -> more effective 16:47 -!- Netsplit over, joins: Fish- 16:47 < aiju> bigger community -> more people to develop crap -> ??? 16:47 < skelterjohn> diamonds in the rough, etc 16:47 < skelterjohn> for instance, all the stuff i've created is solid gold 16:48 -!- zimsim [~simon@87.72.77.195] has joined #go-nuts 16:49 < exch> :p 16:49 < skelterjohn> :) 16:49 < kamaji_> Don't worry, I'm offsetting it by creating utter crap 16:50 -!- KBme [~KBme@9angled-2-pt.tunnel.tserv5.lon1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:51 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 16:53 < kamaji_> woohoooooooo 16:53 < kamaji_> finished :D 16:54 < skelterjohn> what's finished? 16:54 < ww> kamaji is finished? 16:54 < ww> is finished or has finished? 16:54 < kamaji> porter stemmer 16:55 < skelterjohn> into NLP? 16:55 < kamaji> kiiiiind of ish 16:55 < kamaji> more text mining 16:55 < skelterjohn> is your porter stemmer public? 16:55 < kamaji> nope 16:55 < ww> oh interesting... nlp is a hobby of mine... wasn't aware anyone was using go for it 16:55 < skelterjohn> i want to compare it to one i wrote years ago 16:55 < kamaji> I was going to put the library on github 16:55 < kamaji> but it's not really in a releaseable state 16:56 < skelterjohn> good idea 16:56 < skelterjohn> doesn't matter 16:56 < krutcha> bigger community is important, I'd never get buy-in to use go at work as-is. There'd need to be be more tools/compiler support, bindings and library ports so I could talk to our systems without re-inventing every scaffold from first principles, etc. The difference of a large community is that you could create solid gold OR utter crap, but be far less limited in scope I guess. 16:56 < skelterjohn> kamaji: the first thing i do with a new project is create a github repo for it 16:56 < skelterjohn> i just don't tell people about it until it's presentable 16:56 < kamaji> hehe 16:57 < skelterjohn> but i hate working without version control 16:57 < kamaji> I've got a local repo 16:57 < skelterjohn> krutcha: exactly 16:57 < kamaji> it's nice 16:57 < skelterjohn> i hate working without a remote version control :\ dropbox takes care of that to an extent 16:58 < kamaji> this box is always on so I don't mind 16:58 < kamaji> I can send you porter.go for now if you want 16:58 < skelterjohn> that's ok 16:58 < kamaji> it can stand up by itself 16:58 -!- KBme [~KBme@2001:470:1f13:94::3] has joined #go-nuts 16:58 < skelterjohn> just letme know when you put it in github 16:58 < kamaji> sure 16:58 < kamaji> should be in a few days 16:58 < exch> I work from different locations often, so I use github to store my stuff. Mostly it's in a pitiful state. Unfortunately a fair bunch of people watch all my activity and seemingly jump on anything I put up there like rabid dogs :P That can't be good for me 'reputation', considering the shady state of much of the work 16:58 < ww> actually you should let uriel know that way we can find it on the cat-v pages 16:59 < kamaji> exch: It's like "real men don't use backups", but instead "real men don't fix bugs, they just put it on a public git repo and let other people do it" 16:59 < exch> hehe 16:59 < exch> well I usually put copious amounts of warnings in the README, so yea 16:59 < kamaji> hehe 16:59 < kamaji> right i'm off to buy snacks 16:59 < krutcha> is using defer just as fast as an explicit call from the tail end of a function in compiled go code? is it compiled as such? 16:59 < kamaji> because I need SUGAR 17:00 < exch> "Use at your own risk." "This is NOT finished." etc 17:00 < nsf> krutcha: no 17:00 < ww> krutcha: no it is slower 17:00 -!- Eko [~eko@70-90-168-189-SFBACalifornia.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 17:00 < ww> but often more convenient and less error-prone 17:01 < ww> it means an extra function call as the scheduler unravels a linked-list of deferreds when the function returns 17:07 -!- KBme [~KBme@2001:470:1f13:94::3] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07 -!- emjayess [~emjayess@pix1.i29.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08 < Namegduf> No, but use it anyway, it isn't *horribly* slow 17:08 < Namegduf> Just not as fast as a regular function call, which is fast. 17:08 < steven> mmm, "fn() unless name.trim.blank?" 17:08 < steven> pretty sweet code 17:09 < skelterjohn> are you kidding? 17:09 < steven> nope 17:09 < skelterjohn> is that a reversed if statement? 17:09 < Namegduf> Yes. 17:09 < skelterjohn> and that is sweet? 17:09 < steven> yes 17:09 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has joined #go-nuts 17:09 < skelterjohn> well, it's good to know where you're coming from, i guess 17:10 < ww> i usually use defer if there is a return statement between the resource being allocated/locked and the end of the function 17:10 < kamaji> to be fair it is sometimes more intuitive to define conditionals like that 17:10 < Namegduf> Just looking at that makes my head hurt 17:10 < Namegduf> No, it isn't 17:10 < ww> otherwise i put the unlock/free bit at the end of the function 17:10 < Namegduf> It has a line with backwards flow of control 17:10 < steven> not all the time, but sometimes, yes 17:10 < kamaji> I mean in terms of the actual logic 17:10 < kamaji> I still disapprove :P 17:10 < Namegduf> No, not sometimes, there is never a case where it is easier to read code which has random lines which are executed backwards 17:11 < skelterjohn> "x() unless a" should just be written "if !a { x() } 17:11 < skelterjohn> " 17:11 < steven> "take_some_action(list) unless my_list.empty?" 17:11 < skelterjohn> much more straightforward 17:11 < steven> skelterjohn: much less straightforward 17:11 < Namegduf> Because like most English speakers, I read forwards, and that requires me to double back and correct my initial reading 17:11 < steven> <3 17:11 < Namegduf> No, much more straightforward. Literally. 17:11 < steven> i love you all 17:11 < skelterjohn> right, i was about to say something similar 17:11 -!- KBme [~KBme@2001:470:1f13:94::3] has joined #go-nuts 17:11 < skelterjohn> to Namegduf 17:12 < skelterjohn> it reads forward 17:12 < skelterjohn> the meaning of somethign isn't changed by what comes after it 17:12 < Namegduf> It also compiles the way it's written 17:12 < mpl> maybe steven is some sort of timelord? :) 17:12 < krutcha> couldn't the compiler easily optimize defer's so that both cases (defer, and a call at the end) perform in same-time without run-time scheduler delays? Or does this have something to do with the 'arguments evaluated at execution time' bit? 17:12 < bartbes> Namegduf: poorly? 17:12 < Namegduf> x unless y requires the check on y to actually come before x is executed in the compiled code. 17:13 * ww wonders if arabic and hebrew speaking programmers with poor english find all this disorienting 17:13 < skelterjohn> how are semitic languages structured? 17:13 < Namegduf> krutcha: It could IFF the function had no early returns. 17:15 < ww> i think it's the writing convention here. left before right or right before left? 17:15 < skelterjohn> i see 17:15 < skelterjohn> computer programming is left to right, top to bottom 17:15 < ww> but plenty of languages have modifiers after the subject, even archaic english and german 17:16 < skelterjohn> certainly 17:16 < skelterjohn> but in an imperative language, where statements are (usually) executed in order, it can be confusing 17:17 < skelterjohn> programming is not poetry 17:17 < skelterjohn> people shouldn't get caught up in "neat" syntax - just make it clear and concise 17:17 < exch> 100 [1,b] [ dup [ 3 mod 0 = "Fizz" "" ? ] [ 5 mod 0 = "Buzz" "" ? ] bi append [ number>string ] [ nip ] if-empty print ] each 17:17 < exch> ^ poetry 17:17 < krutcha> Nameduf: I'd take that gladly, even as a compiler flag. That way I could write locks consistently and safely while not sacrificing performance, if I managed my returns properly. If there was a risk of overhead on an unlock, the first thing a lot of programmers would do is GUT the defer's, lose the safety, and create mix'n'match coding style any time they were looking for an increase in throughput. 17:18 < skelterjohn> krutcha: you can unroll defers by hand if you want to optimize a particular function 17:18 < skelterjohn> in the mean time, defer is a useful shortcut, even if you aren't catching panics 17:18 < ww> well... poetry... different question... good poetry, like good code, is distilled to the clear essence with no cruft... 17:18 < Namegduf> I would recommend doing it by hand if you care about it, but don't care about it until a benchmark tells you to. 17:18 < skelterjohn> ww: matter of opinion, clearly 17:18 < ww> clearly 17:20 < skelterjohn> ww: I'd argue that "good communication" is "distilled to the essence with no cruft" 17:23 < ww> skelterjohn: i'd counter that good communication needs a certain amount of redundancy and hence cruft to be reliably understood 17:24 -!- tteras [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:24 < krutcha> fair enough. The last project I did that would have been interesting to tackle in GO was a DHCP server done in C++. We started with scoped lock objects (unlock on destruct, etc), then when asked if we could get anymore throughput the natural reaction was 'tune everything', so they went out the window.. the churn of changing everything everywhere led to a power struggle over whether to use macros to enforce locking behavior in scopes so future change 17:24 < krutcha> s didn't require so much code churn.. etc etc, ad nauseum 17:24 < skelterjohn> then, by extension, you argue that poetry does not communicate? 17:25 < skelterjohn> or rather, that *good* poetry does not communicate :) 17:25 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25 < ww> skelterjohn: no, only that the communication is compressed and requires contemplation to understand 17:26 < skelterjohn> so good poetry is not good communication 17:26 < skelterjohn> or vice versa 17:26 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:26 < ww> in the same way that maxwell's equations contain no redundancy and require some contemplation to understand, or explanation that adds a lot of redundancy 17:26 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 17:27 < ww> that redundancy is desireable in communication, but not in code, poetry or mathematics 17:27 < skelterjohn> the redundancy in code is introduced through comments 17:27 < krutcha> so, in go, given that history of project churn, the same group would vote unanimously to never use defer from the start.. and hamstring themselves from the benefits of a very nice language feature (unless the compiler let them win/win) :P 17:28 < ww> sure, just as a edition of poetry might also have commentary 17:28 < ww> or a physics textbook has explanations 17:28 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has joined #go-nuts 17:29 < aiju> poetry? see K 17:29 < aiju> http://aiju.de/code/k/tictactoe *this* is poetry 17:31 -!- marten_ [~marten@g133120.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #go-nuts 17:35 -!- tktiddle [~tim@149.5.64.141] has joined #go-nuts 17:35 < tktiddle> Anything intresting being written in go? 17:36 < exch> define 'interesting' 17:36 < nsf> tktiddle: https://github.com/languages/Go 17:39 < tktiddle> OK 17:39 -!- tktiddle [~tim@149.5.64.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39 < ww> aiju: pretty 17:41 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has joined #go-nuts 17:41 -!- niemeyer_ [~niemeyer@189.73.142.55] has joined #go-nuts 17:42 < skelterjohn> oh neat - i have the most recently updated go github repository 17:42 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@201-11-229-180.pltce701.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42 < skelterjohn> i suppose that's not too difficult to achieve 17:47 < krutcha> is go-gtk still the primary foray into GUI/visual tools for go? 17:48 < exch> krutcha: seems like it. I haven't really seen any other UI lib ports so far 17:50 < skelterjohn> we need a solid/available-on-all-platforms basic drawing library 17:50 < skelterjohn> then someone could try to build a set of widgets on top of that 17:50 < hopso> I was planning to implement some neat way to use HTML5/js combination as the GUI 17:50 < aiju> skelterjohn: yeah, fuck desktop integration 17:50 < skelterjohn> i experimented that for a while, but i got frustrated 17:51 < skelterjohn> aiju: um. i'm not sure what you're saying. 17:51 < aiju> your proposal is to just use something like SDL and build widgets on top of that, amiright? 17:51 < hopso> It sure is frustrating. Simple applications like remote music player and stuff get done easily but any bigger 17:51 < hopso> becomes a mess. 17:51 < exch> https://github.com/jteeuwen/mpwc this is about as far as I got with the html/js frontend thing. Certainly not undoable, but it's a pain in the ass 17:51 < skelterjohn> aiju: similar to java's approach 17:52 < aiju> i hate Java UIs 17:52 < skelterjohn> they're easy to make, that's for sure 17:52 < skelterjohn> and, to be fair, you hate almost everything, so that statement doesn't have a lot of impact 17:52 < aiju> hahahahahaha 17:53 < napsy> is there a quick way in go to print out the current function lik C's __func__ ? 17:53 < krutcha> oh cool exch, I recognize your name from there, I used the crap out of your XMLX package to make XML easier :P 17:53 < skelterjohn> napsy: runtime.Caller and friends 17:53 < napsy> oh ok 17:53 < krutcha> several months ago when I was screwing around with go-jabber 17:54 < exch> krutcha: goodie. At least someone has a use for it then :) 17:54 < skelterjohn> napsy: runtime.Caller gives you a pc, and runtime.FuncForPC gives you more information 17:54 < krutcha> skelterjohn: I'd be content using an existing gui flow with bindings, glade->GTK->some sort of port to go-bindings? 17:54 < aiju> __func__ is useless without macros, isn't it? 17:55 < krutcha> exch: I would have had to do a lot of the same work to parse an open ended XML stream anyways.. I still want to do it for fun, but your package worked so.. *yoink* 17:57 < exch> nobody likes to reinvent the wheel :) 17:57 < exch> unless you come up with a better wheel that is 17:57 < skelterjohn> i do 17:57 < skelterjohn> i reinvent wheels all the time 17:57 < krutcha> I love reinventing the wheel if I never build such a wheel before, I can just rarely justify it :P 17:57 < exch> me to. mostly just cos i'm bored really. Not because I enjoy it. It can also be a learning experience, doing it in a new language 17:58 < hopso> Reinventing the wheel can be entertaining often. Especially if you find the wheel's inner workings interesting. 17:58 < skelterjohn> sometimes you reinvent the wheel before the first wheel was invented, but since you're not the official wheel maker, etc.... 18:00 < aiju> reinventing the wheel is a good idea 18:00 < aiju> you can learn A LOT in the process 18:00 < hopso> I should start a hobby project. Maybe a package for swf files? 18:02 < hopso> I'm afraid of the bit structures inside them though. 18:02 < aiju> swf files? 18:02 < aiju> be afraid 18:02 < aiju> be very afraid 18:03 < hopso> I will for sure. 18:04 -!- niemeyer_ [~niemeyer@189.73.142.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5IImv7 by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/ -- spec: add parens missing from "protect" example. 18:12 -!- marten_ [~marten@g133120.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: marten_] 18:12 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.153.77.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 18:12 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has joined #go-nuts 18:14 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-24-11-39-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:16 < exch> Any idea why gotest doesn't pick up the _test.go files anymore? 18:17 < exch> the documentation it links to isn't very helpful in this matter 18:17 <+iant> it picks up xxx_test.go files, but not files named exactly "_test.go" 18:17 <+iant> this is a change 18:17 -!- Venom_X_ [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:17 < exch> it doesnt seem to see 'glfw_test.go' 18:19 -!- Venom_X_ [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:21 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@75-27-133-72.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:21 -!- huin [~huin@91.85.185.181] has joined #go-nuts 18:22 -!- iant [~iant@216.239.45.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF55BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:24 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 18:25 -!- itrekkie [~itrekkie@ip72-211-131-205.tc.ph.cox.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:28 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-oqzplmrtfeegebde] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:30 -!- crazy2be [~crazy2be@S01060012171a573b.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:31 -!- str1ngs [~strings@unaffiliated/str1ngs] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-153-6.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 -!- iant [~iant@adsl-71-133-8-30.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:40 -!- mode/#go-nuts [+v iant] by ChanServ 18:41 -!- prip [~foo@host194-122-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42 -!- archevan [~archevan@67.69.227.99] has joined #go-nuts 18:43 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.96.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@250.sub-75-210-247.myvzw.com] has joined #go-nuts 18:44 -!- aho [~nya@fuld-590c7a49.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:45 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.66.166] has joined #go-nuts 18:48 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-153-6.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50 -!- elimisteve [~elimistev@pool-71-102-138-52.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 18:53 -!- prip [~foo@host194-122-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #go-nuts 18:57 < plexdev> http://is.gd/wPC7dF by [Peter Mundy] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: fixes for [^.]_test file pattern 18:59 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-0acfe555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 19:00 -!- hopso [~hopso@a91-152-183-181.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #go-nuts [] 19:01 -!- foocraft [~dsc@78.101.82.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03 -!- elimisteve [~elimistev@pool-71-102-138-52.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Later] 19:07 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-0acfe555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:09 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-0acfe555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 19:10 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has joined #go-nuts 19:12 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.93.67] has joined #go-nuts 19:14 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has joined #go-nuts 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[~Adium@75.144.24.109-BusName-walnutcreek.ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #go-nuts 19:29 < plexdev> http://is.gd/sCBxnG by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- crypto/block: remove deprecated package. 19:30 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-molblbzacxnqczim] has joined #go-nuts 19:31 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.89.219] has joined #go-nuts 19:32 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.150.214.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 19:34 -!- ExtraSpice [XtraSpice@88.118.35.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.93.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:37 -!- rlab_ [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:38 -!- femtoo [~femto@95-89-249-242-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 19:41 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.81.19] has joined #go-nuts 19:44 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.89.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46 < plexdev> http://is.gd/bo7UYf by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/ -- crypto/des: cleanups 19:47 < str1ngs> 8 19:49 -!- fabled [~fabled@83.145.235.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:51 -!- awidegreen_ [~quassel@178.63.120.5] has joined #go-nuts 19:52 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-0acfe555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:53 < ww> 7 19:56 < str1ngs> o.O 19:56 < skelterjohn> 8. 19:57 < str1ngs> what have a started :( 19:57 < skelterjohn> a slightly-less-interesting-than-usual argument about the merits of 7 vs 8 19:58 < str1ngs> atleast it wasnt a :wq! :P 20:00 < nickbp> cxc 20:00 < ww> there's a nice barenaked ladies song that my son likes about why six is afraid of seven... 20:01 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:01 < str1ngs> crazy canadian bands 20:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/cM6QtA by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: fix a bug in error handling. 20:04 -!- dreadlorde [~dreadlord@c-24-11-39-160.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05 -!- hopso [~hopso@a91-152-183-181.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #go-nuts 20:07 -!- zozoR [~Morten@56344e3e.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has joined #go-nuts 20:09 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-190.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:11 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 20:12 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has joined #go-nuts 20:23 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 20:28 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.92.39] has joined #go-nuts 20:29 -!- hopso [~hopso@a91-152-183-181.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #go-nuts [] 20:30 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.92.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30 -!- vsayer [~vivek@c-67-170-236-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.92.39] has joined #go-nuts 20:31 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@82.84.81.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-190.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:32 < str1ngs> os.Expand needs os.Expand(string,func(string,interfacs{})string) I think 20:35 < plexdev> http://is.gd/kd7wLc by [Rob Pike] in go/doc/devel/ -- roadmap: add sections on tools, packages. 20:38 < skelterjohn> what would that do 20:38 < skelterjohn> what would the interface{} be for? 20:38 < str1ngs> allow you to map $1 to say a struct field 20:39 < steven> iant: what use is ^_test.go$ anyway? 20:39 < str1ngs> steven: foo_test.go 20:39 < skelterjohn> files named "_test.go" used to get picked up by gotest 20:40 < skelterjohn> now they do no longer, and the doc needs to be updated 20:40 < skelterjohn> str1ngs: i think that would be best accomplished by a closure... 20:40 < skelterjohn> unless I misunderstand 20:41 < str1ngs> no because the closer till would only take a string 20:42 < str1ngs> so you either have to hardcode the mappings or use global vars 20:42 < skelterjohn> what, exactly, would be in the interface{} argument, and how would the Expand function get at this data? 20:42 < skelterjohn> give me a use-case 20:42 < str1ngs> you can then switch $name to say struct.Name 20:43 < skelterjohn> give me a call to os.Expand, as you would have it, and tell me what it should return 20:43 -!- rlab [~Miranda@91.200.158.34] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 20:44 < str1ngs> "hello my name is $name" os.Expand(s,struct,callback) = hello my name is struct.Name 20:45 < skelterjohn> what is struct,what is callback 20:45 < skelterjohn> i have a feeling i can do this really easily with a closure 20:46 < str1ngs> you cant because the closer does not take anything but string 20:46 < skelterjohn> closer is not a thing. 20:46 < str1ngs> see src/pkg/os/env_test.go 20:46 < crazy2be> closer != closure 20:47 < skelterjohn> func MakeAClosure(s TheStruct) func(string)string { return func(string)string { return something from s based on the string } } 20:47 < skelterjohn> that is a closure/curried function 20:48 < str1ngs> which you cannot pass to os.Expand so that doesnt help. as far as I can see 20:48 < skelterjohn> os.Expand(astring, MakeAClosure(astruct)) -> what you want 20:48 < skelterjohn> tada 20:48 < ww> yummy curry 20:49 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-0acfe555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #go-nuts 20:49 < skelterjohn> this is why everyone needs to have a class on lisp or scheme at some point in their undergrad years, if they want a CS degree 20:49 < crazy2be> skelterjohn: To understand closures? 20:49 < skelterjohn> yes - or at least to get some practice with them 20:49 < ww> well you've the same thing in python with nested functions 20:49 < ww> and lambda 20:49 < crazy2be> hmm i use them quite a bit in javascript/jquery 20:50 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50 < skelterjohn> ww: certainly there are other contexts to learn about closures 20:50 -!- awidegreen_ [~quassel@178.63.120.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:50 < skelterjohn> but i think that lisp/scheme are very simple and force you to do things this way 20:50 < aiju> lisp forces to something? 20:50 < ww> you can make some real veritable spaghetti with them if you're not careful too 20:50 < skelterjohn> sure 20:50 < skelterjohn> i don't suggest it for production systems 20:51 < aiju> you can write ANY code in LISP 20:51 -!- zerosanity [~josh@8.20.178.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51 < plexdev> http://is.gd/RSNlUe by [Rob Pike] in go/src/cmd/gotest/ -- gotest: fix windows build. 20:52 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: assuming everyone is CS major or wants to be is just as ignorant as me not using closures before :P 20:53 < skelterjohn> that's why i said "if they want a CS degree" 20:53 < skelterjohn> if i assumed everyone wanted a CS degree, i wouldn't have left that last bit on there 20:53 < ww> google: free kool aid for cs grads 20:53 < skelterjohn> since it would be implicit 20:53 -!- piranha [~piranha@5ED43A0B.cm-7-5a.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:55 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: not to take away from your help with my question, since I'm starting to see that this might work. which I'm grateful for. 20:55 < skelterjohn> i didn't mean to imply that everyone should already know about closures 20:55 < skelterjohn> i'm just saying that they're an important concept, and they don't get enough exposure in general 20:55 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has joined #go-nuts 20:55 -!- viirya_ [~viirya@cml506-25.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55 < str1ngs> fair enough 20:55 -!- viirya [~viirya@cml506-25.csie.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #go-nuts 20:57 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-161-184.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #go-nuts 20:57 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@p5DDF55BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 20:59 < nsf> what's so cool about closures? 20:59 < nsf> and is there something what you can't model without using it? 21:00 < aiju> closures allow some true functional programming 21:00 < nsf> even C++0x has closures, ugly closures I must say 21:00 -!- PortatoreSanoDiI [~Marvin@82.84.92.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:00 < str1ngs> nsf: in relation to os.Expand() I guess not 21:00 < nsf> aiju: is it useful in real world? 21:00 < aiju> you can replace data structures by closures 21:00 < aiju> nsf: no 21:00 < nsf> :D 21:00 < aiju> and it's not a good idea, outside of LISP 21:01 < ww> now... list comprehensions are something i miss in go 21:01 < ww> comprehensions with channels would be lekker 21:01 < nsf> I like blocks in Ruby 21:01 < nsf> a lot 21:01 < aiju> i don't know what blocks are good for 21:01 < nsf> but I think they can be modeled without closures 21:01 < aiju> they just seem like a funny way to write loops 21:02 < nsf> aiju: resource control as well 21:02 < nsf> like: 21:02 < aiju> they invade Iraq? 21:02 < nsf> File.open("123.txt") do |f| 21:02 < nsf> x = f.read 21:02 < nsf> end 21:02 < aiju> sorry, i don't see anything but useless complexity 21:02 < ww> yeah, python has those too with "with" 21:03 < ww> but defer is a good/better replacement 21:03 < nsf> but 'with' is a special thing 21:03 < nsf> blocks are just a generic way of doing it 21:03 < aiju> postscript has something like procs lol 21:03 < nsf> sure it can be done with scope/defer 21:03 < nsf> ('scope' as in D I mean) 21:03 < nsf> { f := OpenFile(); scope f.Close(); x = f.Read(); } 21:04 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: ok so really the benefit of using this is I still gain access to the struct inside the function? 21:04 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04 < skelterjohn> yes 21:04 < nsf> but 21:04 < nsf> I think blocks are prettier 21:04 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: great thanks 21:04 < skelterjohn> it's like passing around a little anonymous data structure 21:05 < nsf> and if I'll have inline templates, I can do blocks as well :) 21:05 < nsf> I think it's an interesting idea to try in the static compiled languages world 21:06 < aiju> http://aiju.de/chem/tmp/6be3e049f382d027a325e79931a550fd.png <-- i really can't believe i make such figures using only 254 lines of Go 21:06 < nsf> for example with templated vector 21:06 < nsf> v.ForEach() { |i| v[i] = i; } 21:06 < nsf> would be nice 21:06 < crazy2be> aiju: 254 to draw that, or 254 to interpret some kind of text format and make that? 21:07 < aiju> crazy2be: 254 to interpret some text 21:07 < crazy2be> cool 21:07 -!- Optimuss [~optimuss@5add106b.bb.sky.com] has joined #go-nuts 21:07 < aiju> i'll set up a home page with reference and explanatin tomorrow 21:08 -!- Optimuss [~optimuss@5add106b.bb.sky.com] has left #go-nuts [] 21:08 < aiju> and examples! 21:08 < plexdev> http://is.gd/HiyUR6 by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- A+C: Dmitry Chestnykh (individual CLA) 21:10 < ww> [ x * 2 | x := <-ch ] 21:10 < ww> or better, 21:10 * nsf doesn't like list comprehensions 21:10 < crazy2be> :D C++0x and go use the same syntax for initalization of structs 21:10 < ww> [ double <- x * 2 | x := <-singles ] 21:10 < aiju> crazy2be: C++0x and Go use the same kind of braces for blocks FUUUUU 21:10 < nsf> crazy2be: with one difference 21:10 < nsf> well, with few differences 21:11 < crazy2be> well, C++ can use constructors 21:11 < nsf> anyway, if you class in C++ has a destructor 21:11 < aiju> 1. it's C++ 21:11 < aiju> 2. it's fucking C++ 21:11 < aiju> 3. IT IS FUCKING C++ 21:11 < nsf> then you need to write a constructor 21:11 < nsf> even for simple stuff 21:11 < nsf> like 21:11 < nsf> struct { int a, b, c; } 21:11 < nsf> it's a big field of repitition 21:11 < aiju> wtf? C++ has no struct literals? WTF? WTF? 21:11 < nsf> it has 21:12 < nsf> but they won't work if class has a non-trivial destructor 21:12 < crazy2be> range based for loops look cool 21:12 < nsf> anyways, who cares about C++ 21:12 < nsf> it's horrible 21:12 < crazy2be> agreed 21:13 < crazy2be> but a lot more people actually use it than use go 21:13 < crazy2be> for game development, for example 21:13 < nsf> that's why I'm writing crawl 21:13 -!- tsung_ [~jon@112.104.53.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13 < crazy2be> it's basically the only language used for game dev 21:13 < nsf> I hope in 3-5 years at least some part of these people 21:13 < nsf> will join me :D 21:13 < crazy2be> crawl? 21:13 < nsf> my lang 21:13 < nsf> yeah, WIP name is crawl 21:14 < crazy2be> you're writing a language for game development? 21:14 -!- awidegreen [~quassel@c-0acfe555.08-2-73746f39.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14 -!- Fish [~Fish@9fans.fr] has quit [Quit: So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish] 21:14 < nsf> yeah, for that kind of programming 21:15 < nsf> the goal is to provide a sane replacement for C 21:15 < nsf> without "horrible" new features load 21:15 < crazy2be> wow lambdas in C+0x are ugly 21:15 < nsf> yes. they are 21:15 -!- tensai_cirno [~cirno@77.232.15.216] has joined #go-nuts 21:16 < nsf> C++0x has some nice features though 21:16 < nsf> I mean yeah, it's more features, more overload 21:16 < nsf> but things like 'auto' make life easier a bit 21:16 < krutcha> isn't it C++11 officially now? 21:16 < krutcha> ratified and whatnot? 21:16 < nsf> it's really painful to write type 2 times almost always 21:16 < crazy2be> well it's hard to improve something that is so overloaded 21:16 < nsf> like: 21:17 < nsf> MyMegaLongType *x = static_cast<MyMegaLongType>(y); 21:17 < nsf> ugh.. 21:17 < nsf> hate that 21:17 < crazy2be> because they either have to break compatability, or just add more 21:17 < nsf> crazy2be: yes, it's a dead end 21:17 < crazy2be> nsf: i like go's solution :) 21:17 < aiju> C++ is broken 21:17 < nsf> Go's ':=' rocks 21:17 < nsf> one of the best language features I've seen so far :D 21:17 < crazy2be> best feature hands down 21:17 < aiju> heh := is one of the things i'm not quite decided about 21:18 < crazy2be> although it can be annoying in inner scope 21:18 < crazy2be> if you only want to initilize one value 21:18 < aiju> it is cute and saves term in the short term, but it shadows and makes things a bit more convoluted 21:18 < aiju> s/saves term/saves time/ 21:18 < crazy2be> e.g. blar, err := someFunc() 21:18 < skelterjohn> the only thing that i would change about :=, and this is indirect, is to have the return values for a function be part of the function's inner scope, like the param list is 21:19 < crazy2be> skelterjohn: You can do that 21:19 < crazy2be> i think 21:19 < crazy2be> func blar(s string) (s2 string) 21:19 < nsf> skelterjohn: named return values? 21:19 < skelterjohn> if you := something in the param list (without being inside another block), you cannot := it 21:19 < nsf> Go can do that 21:19 < skelterjohn> but you can := something in the return values 21:19 < nsf> hm.. interesting 21:19 < nsf> and weird 21:20 < aiju> := on multiple values is awkward 21:20 < nsf> aiju: why? 21:20 < skelterjohn> equivalent to the params being defined inside the function, the returns being defined outside 21:20 < nsf> a, b := 1, 2 21:20 < aiju> nsf: shadowing 21:20 < skelterjohn> := simple rule - anything to the left of a := is redeclared 21:20 < crazy2be> A long long int is an integral type that is at least 64 useful bits. 21:20 < crazy2be> lol 21:20 < aiju> ch, _, err := r.ReadRune() // I DON'T WANT ERR TO BE SHADOWED HNNNGH 21:20 < skelterjohn> when this is allowed is the question 21:20 < skelterjohn> aiju: so don't put it to the left of a := 21:20 < skelterjohn> same way if you did var err os.Error 21:20 < skelterjohn> it would shadow it 21:21 < nsf> aiju: ah, that 21:21 < skelterjohn> that's why i made my comment about what scope return values are defined in 21:21 < crazy2be> skelterjohn: Then you lose the advantage of := 21:21 < nsf> interesting thing to think about 21:21 < crazy2be> since you have to declate the type of ch 21:21 < skelterjohn> crazy2be: i don't think you're getting my point 21:21 < nsf> but I guess without complex rules you can't do what you want 21:21 < aiju> i sometimes just go ahead and put a huge var block in front of everything 21:21 < nsf> and compiler can't do anything about it 21:22 < nsf> it can't see that you didn't want to shadow a var 21:22 < aiju> nsf: yeah sure 21:22 < skelterjohn> the only time this trips people up, i think, is with return values 21:22 < crazy2be> well there was a few solutions i saw 21:22 < skelterjohn> only time it trips me up, anyway 21:23 < aiju> a, b += 1, 1 does not work, does it? 21:23 < crazy2be> :a, err = someFunc() 21:23 < skelterjohn> no 21:23 < nsf> aiju: it doesn't 21:23 < skelterjohn> crazy2be: i think i once suggested "a:, err = someFunc()" 21:23 < crazy2be> or (var a), err = someFunc() 21:23 < aiju> i just had some code where this would be happen 21:23 < skelterjohn> but it's unattractive 21:23 < nsf> aiju: also I was wondering why 21:23 -!- dahankzter [~henrik@92-244-3-192.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:23 < aiju> s/happen/handy 21:23 < nsf> I think it's perfectly fine to have that kind of stuff 21:23 < aiju> x += xd * pairDistance 21:23 < aiju> y += yd * pairDistance 21:24 < aiju> such stuff 21:24 < aiju> of course proper vector arithmetic a la Fortran would be best here 21:27 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@c-68-35-229-34.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28 < nsf> x, y += xd * pairDistance, yd * pairDistance 21:28 < nsf> not much better though 21:28 < nsf> I was thinking about adding vector arithmetic 21:28 < nsf> but currently I have no idea about that 21:28 < aiju> REAL P(2) 21:28 < nsf> like for array types of the same size and the same type 21:28 < nsf> [3]int + [3]int 21:28 < nsf> etc. 21:28 < skelterjohn> nsf: you should - make vector operations a primitive 21:28 < aiju> nsf: you can use SSE and shit for such things .. 21:28 < plexdev> http://is.gd/epHNQE by [Dmitry Chestnykh] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/crypto/ -- crypto/ecdsa, crypto/rsa: use io.ReadFull to read from random source. 21:28 < skelterjohn> then compile it for CUDA 21:28 < nsf> maybe, I don't know at the moment 21:28 < nsf> I mean it's simple feature 21:28 < aiju> and it is damn handy 21:28 < nsf> everything is up to implementing it 21:28 < aiju> i write Fortran just for that 21:28 < nsf> and I'm overwhelmed by other tasks 21:28 < nsf> type system kills me :D 21:28 < nsf> var i uint = 5; x := (1 << i) + 4.5 21:28 < nsf> even in Go it's broken 21:28 < nsf> and I'm trying to make it right with a first try :D 21:28 < nsf> in gccgo works fine though 21:29 -!- huin [~huin@91.85.185.181] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:30 -!- tsung [~jon@112.104.53.151] has joined #go-nuts 21:30 < krutcha> I think the only issue I had with x, y, err := was wrestling with pre-existing err rather than wanting several locally scoped ones, and not being able to do anything other than = because of it 21:30 -!- anth [~a@72-160-85-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: anth] 21:30 < nsf> krutcha: yeah, it's annoying sometimes 21:31 < nsf> but I never did a mistake in the code because of that 21:31 < aiju> nsf: what's the problem with that expression? 21:31 < skelterjohn> yes, i'll often just use "=" and a var for the other LHS 21:31 < nsf> I mean it's annoying but it's not confusing 21:31 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31 < nsf> aiju: var i uint = 5; x := (1 << i) + 4.5 21:31 < aiju> yeah 21:31 < nsf> is a type error 21:31 < nsf> shift of a floating point constant 21:31 < aiju> is there some subtle pitfall in there? 21:31 < nsf> :) 21:31 < crazy2be> just add a ;= operator that only initalizes variables that are not already initalized :D 21:31 < aiju> wtf? 21:31 < nsf> (1 << i) in that part '1' becomes float :D 21:31 < skelterjohn> nsf: i would have thought it was trying to add a float to an int 21:31 < aiju> wtf 21:32 < nsf> aiju: it's in Go's spec :) 21:32 < skelterjohn> which is also not allowed 21:32 < skelterjohn> crazy2be: yeah, that wouldn't be confusing at all =p 21:32 < crazy2be> or ::= :D 21:32 < nsf> aiju: well 21:32 < crazy2be> :=: 21:32 < nsf> and at the moment 21:32 -!- Paradox924X [~Paradox92@c-68-35-229-34.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:32 < nsf> Go compiler fails to recognize an error 21:32 < nsf> it dies on a linking stage 21:32 < nsf> :D 21:32 < aiju> yeah, i've heard about that 21:33 < nsf> so, I can explain the rules here 21:33 < aiju> unlike me, you actually do valid bug reports haha 21:33 < nsf> var i uint = 5; 21:33 < nsf> x := (1 << i) + 4.5 21:33 < nsf> here we have a case 21:33 < nsf> where at some point 21:33 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: doh after all that this wont work. it only expands ${VAR} and not "some stuff ${VAR}" 21:33 < nsf> type system should assign real types to constant expressions 21:33 < nsf> constant expressions are '1' and '4.5' 21:34 < nsf> even though 'i' is known at compile time, it's a var 21:34 < nsf> therefore we need to choose some type for (1 << i) 21:34 < nsf> we can't generate code without real type 21:34 * aiju is going sleeping 21:34 < skelterjohn> str1ngs: are you sure about that? 21:34 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: ya pretty sure 21:34 < nsf> and this type gets chosen from the surrounding context 21:34 < nsf> which is a binary expression 21:35 < nsf> abstract int OP abstract float forces conversion of LHS to abstract float 21:35 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: I'm kinda abusing this already. might be better if I just write my own 21:35 < nsf> and then gets converted to real float 21:35 < nsf> that way '1' gets a float type 21:35 < nsf> and compiler should die with an error 21:35 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: I'll double check though 21:35 < nsf> it's fucking confusing 21:35 < nsf> but it's the only way to do that :D 21:35 -!- anth [~a@72-160-85-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:37 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37 < nsf> but I think I finally figured out a way to do it 21:37 < nsf> tomorrow we'll see :) 21:38 < skelterjohn> str1ngs: it seems to work correctly for me 21:39 < skelterjohn> if you pass "some stuff $var", it will call the function with "var" and replace $var with whatever is returned 21:40 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: I just check so might be my closure 21:40 -!- stalled [~stalled@unaffiliated/stalled] has joined #go-nuts 21:41 < skelterjohn> str1ngs: http://pastebin.com/tBm3zTE5 21:41 -!- tensorpudding [~user@99.148.205.193] has joined #go-nuts 21:42 < str1ngs> yes that what I got to. so I'll check my closure then 21:50 -!- jnwhiteh_ [~jnwhiteh@li37-84.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 21:51 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: return func(s string) string vs return func(string) string 21:51 < str1ngs> yay it works 21:54 -!- jnwhiteh [~jnwhiteh@WoWUIDev/WoWI/Featured/Dongle/cladhaire] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- gtaylor2 [~gtaylor@99-5-124-9.lightspeed.gnvlsc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 21:56 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@lawn-gw.rutgers.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@66.54.185.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:07 -!- waqas [~waqas@jaim.at] has joined #go-nuts 22:09 -!- nsf [~nsf@jiss.convex.ru] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ziNdWt by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of go/src/pkg/crypto/ -- crypto/rsa: add support for precomputing CRT values. 22:23 -!- zimsim [~simon@87.72.77.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:25 -!- Project-2501 [~Marvin@dynamic-adsl-94-36-161-184.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: E se abbasso questa leva che succ...] 22:34 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|] 22:47 -!- Venom_X [~pjacobs@adsl-99-20-147-171.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Venom_X] 22:48 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.150.214.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50 -!- virtualsue [~chatzilla@nat/cisco/x-molblbzacxnqczim] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:50 -!- Boney_ [~paul@124-168-103-51.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #go-nuts 22:51 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 22:52 -!- Boney [~paul@203-158-33-103.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:00 -!- keithcascio [~keithcasc@nat/google/x-sxfnyxisrixceaqk] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 < gtaylor2> Having a hard time figuring out how to unit test a non-command package: https://github.com/gtaylor/go_tinker/tree/master/unit_tests 23:01 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.150.214.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts 23:01 < gtaylor2> Anyone see anything obvious there that I'm doing wrong? Getting undefined: Retfunc when running gotest. 23:11 < skelterjohn> gotest looks for files that end with _test.go 23:11 < skelterjohn> you have no such file 23:11 < exch> it didnt pick up my 'glfw_test.go' file 23:12 < skelterjohn> that seems like a bug 23:12 < skelterjohn> but it's no bug that gotest doesn't do anything for gtaylor2's project 23:12 < exch> ya. it works with other test files 23:12 < skelterjohn> though, perhaps the error message could be clearer 23:13 -!- krutcha [~krutcha@remote.icron.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18 -!- dfc [~dfc@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:20 -!- anth [~a@72-160-85-120.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: anth] 23:24 -!- m4dh4tt3r [~Adium@75.144.24.109-BusName-walnutcreek.ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:27 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.150.214.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35 -!- katakuna [~pie@kjal.demon.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:40 -!- katakuna [pie@kjal.demon.co.uk] has joined #go-nuts 23:43 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45 -!- skelterjohn [~jasmuth@c-68-46-33-145.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:47 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@65-166-100-58.dsl.volcano.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:48 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@65-166-100-58.dsl.volcano.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48 -!- binarypie [~binarypie@65-166-100-58.dsl.volcano.net] has joined #go-nuts 23:53 -!- jgonzalez [~jgonzalez@173-14-137-134-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:54 -!- Scorchin [~Scorchin@host86-147-226-14.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Scorchin] 23:57 -!- aconran__ [~aconran-o@38.104.129.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57 -!- aconran__ [~aconran-o@38.104.129.126] has joined #go-nuts 23:59 -!- niemeyer [~niemeyer@189.27.150.214.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #go-nuts --- Log closed Wed Apr 06 00:00:50 2011