--- Log opened Tue Apr 19 00:00:50 2011
00:01 < plexdev> http://is.gd/mv2RS3 by [Russ Cox] in 3 subdirs of go/src/
-- reflect: allow Slice of arrays
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01:03 < plexdev> http://is.gd/kkBw1K by [Nigel Tao] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/ -- image/jpeg: add an encoder.
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03:05 < venk> blist
03:07 < kevlar> was closed(chan) removed recently?
03:07 < kevlar> file.go:24: undefined: closed
03:07 < kevlar> it's still in the docs...
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03:10 < skelterjohn> it was removed a while ago
03:16 < kevlar> woah, apparently my repo is on the other side of that change
as golang.org
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03:17 * kevlar tries to remember to use his local godoc
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03:22 < kevlar> wait, so now there's no way to distinguish between a zero
receive and then a close and just a close??
03:23 < kevlar> oh, nevermind, it's not val,closed := <-chan; it's
val,open := <-chan
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05:48 < pTonnerre> --- FAIL: http.TestRedirect
05:48 < pTonnerre> Get(http://codesearch.google.com/) got status 200 at
http://codesearch.google.com/, want 200 at http://www.google.com/codesearch
05:48 < pTonnerre> FAIL
05:48 < pTonnerre> Why do we rely on stuff like that?!
05:49 < kevlar> pTonnerre: to be fair, redirects at Google are alot more
within the realm of control than any other domain.
05:49 < pTonnerre> kevlar: we could start up a small local Go httpd ;)
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10:39 < ww> 'morning all
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10:53 < ww> what is the best way to write xml with go?  templates?  or?
anyone have experience with xmlm?
10:53 < taruti> ww: have you looked at the xml package?
10:53 < ww> taruti: yes, that's just for reading
10:54 < ww> unfortunately...  i need to write too :(
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10:56 < ww> and relatedly...  is libxslt still the best C library for xslt?
i'm going to have to make some bindings...
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13:14 < j2a> Hi. I'm looking for person (from Europe preferable) who wants
to make talk about Go. I'm organizing some kind of conference about new and
emerging languages.  Estimate date — 25 of Jun.  Does anybody want to make a trip
to Siberia?  :)
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13:21 < aiju> nsf: don't you live in russia?  ;P
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13:21 < nsf> aiju: I do, but giving talks is the least thing I'm interested
in
13:21 < aiju> haha
13:22 < exch> are there actually people in siberia?
13:22 < aiju> i symphathize
13:22 < aiju> exch: no, just mooses
13:22 < hopso> That sounds interesting
13:22 < exch> ah well I guess moose can be interested in Go to :p
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13:24 < ww> yacgob (yet another cgo binding) :
https://bitbucket.org/ww/libxml
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13:25 < j2a> hopso: you're welcome (if my words sounds interesting for you
:))
13:27 < ww> actually i've a collegue in novosibirsk...  but you're likely to
get a talk about bibliographic citation data from him, not go
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13:47 < j2a> ww: there is no harm to ask him, I guess :) Could you give his
contacts?
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13:48 < ww> j2a: well, really, it's not his field -
http://openlib.org/home/krichel/
13:49 < j2a> ah, I see
13:49 < ww> was just proving to exch that people do indeed live in siberia
13:49 < exch> :p
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14:09 < skelterjohn> morning
14:09 < skelterjohn> kevlar: i think the problem is probably that the godoc
wasn't updated to reflect the removal of closed - the godoc on golang.org is the
last release and (i think) it has the change to closed.
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14:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/wUTPai by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/crypto/ -- crypto: move certificate verification into x509.
14:12 < plexdev> http://is.gd/plJpub by [Adam Langley] in
go/src/pkg/crypto/x509/ -- crypto/x509: fix build
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14:59 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ZJ2DI0 by [Adam Langley] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/crypto/openpgp/ -- crypto/openpgp: better handling of keyrings.
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15:16 < plexdev> http://is.gd/sorQOY by [Russ Cox] in go/ -- CONTRIBUTORS:
add David Crawshaw (Google CLA)
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15:56 < delinka> Are there any IDEs that support Go?
15:57 < hopso> There's Goclipse plugin for Eclipse
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15:57 < ww> emacs has go-mode
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16:23 < uriel> delinka: see http://go-lang.cat-v.org/text-editors/
16:25 < exch> gah.  my compiler has a bug that I just can't pin down
>< What's worst is that it only seems to occur under some strange conditions
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16:36 < xyproto> exch: are there any available edge-cases you can try out?
16:37 < exch> I've been trying to find a suitable one for the past hour.
Splitting the offending code up into smaller tests hasn't shown the error so far
though
16:37 < exch> that's mainly what is annoying me :p
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16:39 < hopso> What kind of compiler are you working on?
16:40 < exch> It compiles a subset of Factor into bytecode which can then be
run on a VM
16:40 < exch> https://github.com/jteeuwen/kitten
16:41 < xyproto> exch: do you have a way to verify what's happening, in
smaller steps?  printf?  assert?
16:41 < exch> yea.  I do know where the error is occurring
16:41 < exch> Just haven't found the solution yet
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16:41 < xyproto> exch: good luck :]
16:41 < exch> it's in this function
https://github.com/jteeuwen/kitten/blob/master/compiler/compiler.go#L227
16:42 < exch> this function merges multiple identical instrucitons into one.
eg: push [1], push [2], push [3] -> push [1, 2, 3]
16:42 < exch> It's the last step the compiler goes through before the
program is finished
16:42 < exch> when I comment it out, the program is correct.  So it's
clearly in there some where
16:43 < exch> It's a bit tricky as the vectorization is selective (only for
certain types of instructions) and it has to take into accuont that branching
instructions can branch into a range that should be collapsed
16:44 < exch> so the range has to be slpit up at the branch target
16:44 * ww meow
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16:46 < exch> this code works fine for all test cases.  there is just 1
particular tets script which causes some rather peculiar output from this function
16:46 < str1ngs> ww: I'm going to checkout your blog soon.  I have a dual
core A9
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16:47 < exch> :o
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16:59 < ww> str1ngs: i have a blog?
17:01 < str1ngs> ww: you do now
17:02 < ww> news to me...  i guess http://river.styx.org/ww is kind of
blog-like
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17:02 < ww> is it still a blog if there is no comment feature?
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17:03 < ww> or are you talking about the stuff with protovis?
17:04 < ww> the valuable data is the machine readable bit, the javascript is
just eye candy
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17:05 < ww> but that's definitely not a blog
17:06 < str1ngs> naw the arm stuff
17:06 < str1ngs> blog might be wrong term then
17:07 < ww> oh i remember - from when i was trying to get go working on the
android
17:08 < ww> i though you were saying protovis is too cpu intensive and
you'll look at the fancy pictures now that you have shiny new hardware
17:08 < ww> ...  for which i wouldn't blame you
17:10 < str1ngs> nope just android hacking stuff :P
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17:13 < ww> well i'll be interested to see where you get with it
17:14 < str1ngs> big hurdle is deciding to root it.  but imo I probably I
cant help myself
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17:36 < delinka> if someone publishes a binary-only package, since there are
no header files where would a code-completion IDE find function names?  will it
need to parse the .a?
17:37 < skelterjohn> there is a binary importer either in the works or
available in go/types
17:38 < skelterjohn> go/types . GcImporter
17:38 < skelterjohn> that will get the information you want
17:38 < skelterjohn> is there any reason to prefer os.StartProcess to
exec.Run?
17:39 < ww> skelterjohn: i've actually used syscall.ForkExec() myself...
probably shouldn't though
17:41 < skelterjohn> exec.Run calls os.StartProcess
17:41 < rm445> skelterjohn: connect to arbitrary file descriptors?
17:41 < skelterjohn> i've done that with exec.Run
17:42 < skelterjohn> os.StartProcess appears to just rearrange parameters
17:42 < skelterjohn> and handle some stuff that didn't occur to me that
probably should have
17:42 < rm445> How do yuo do it with exec.Run?
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17:42 < skelterjohn> err, exec.Run does this, I mean
17:43 < skelterjohn>
https://github.com/skelterjohn/go-gb/blob/master/gb/runext.go#L92
17:44 < skelterjohn> in retrospect calling a function RunExternalDump is a
bit off-putting
17:44 < nsf> http://ompldr.org/vOGM1dw/2011-04-19-234854_876x718_scrot.png
17:44 < nsf> :P
17:44 < nsf> first more or less complete program compiled by crawl :)
17:46 < rm445> skelterjohn: nice, I suppose, though it doesn't seem quite
what I have in mind.
17:46 < skelterjohn> what were you thinking about?
17:47 < rm445> not sure, well, connecting the standard streams to actual
open files rather than squirting data through pipes.
17:47 < rm445> Anyway, isn't the real answer that StartProcess is a
Windows-ism that someone threw in, while the exec module is someone else's bright
idea?
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17:48 < skelterjohn> well, i like that os.StartProcess collects parameters
in a struct rather than just having a long signature
17:48 < plexdev> http://is.gd/etDmpp by [Rob Pike] in go/src/pkg/gob/ --
gob: fix trivial bug in map marshaling.
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18:31 < hopso> Does bytes.Buffer.WriteTo(net.Conn) write the buffer's
content to the connection?
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18:32 < skelterjohn> yes
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18:32 < skelterjohn> that's what the WriteTo functions are for, anyway
18:33 < hopso> Those confuse me a bit.  Probably just takes a while to get
used to.
18:34 < hopso> Writes and Reads and WriteTos and ReadFroms everywhere.  It's
nice to have same methods in multiple packages though.
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18:36 < skelterjohn> in general, i feel like you should try to make things
read like an english sentence
18:36 < aiju> skelterjohn: you should program COBOL
18:36 < skelterjohn> x.WriteTo(y) is clear
18:37 < skelterjohn> x.Write(z) is a bit less like a sentence, but still
reasonably clear
18:37 < hopso> skelterjohn: I just noticed that :D
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18:38 < skelterjohn> i've never seen COBOL code, so I don't get the
joke/insight
18:38 < aiju> MULTIPLY X BY 100
18:38 < aiju> IF X > 10 THEN ADD 20 TO Z
18:38 < hopso> I've seen only a bit and it looks annoying.
18:39 < skelterjohn> one can have the flow of english without having to
write actual english
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18:41 < cbeck> Better than ReadOut and WriteIn
18:41 < aiju> i don't quite get the point of WriteTo() though
18:41 < skelterjohn> what is there to get?
18:42 < hopso> Is there much difference in reading data little at time from
net.Conn and reading more to buffer at time and then little at time from the
buffer?
18:42 < aiju> skelterjohn: why the fuck does it exist
18:42 < skelterjohn> so people can use them
18:42 < aiju> can't you just read and write somewhere else?
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18:43 < skelterjohn> sometimes there are sets of instructions people want to
execute more than once
18:43 < skelterjohn> what we do is collect them into smaller segments and
call them "functions"
18:43 < hopso> aiju: I'd rather write "buf.WriteTo(conn)" than "var b
[10]byte; buf.Read(b[:]); conn.Write(b[:])"
18:43 < skelterjohn> this allows easy re-use of code
18:44 < skelterjohn> hopso: you could also do io.Copy(buf, conn)
18:44 < aiju> exactly
18:44 < hopso> Oh right :D
18:44 < skelterjohn> though it would copy things to an intermediate buffer
18:45 < skelterjohn> WriteTo (along with error checking and other nonsense)
just does "w.Write(b.buf[b.off:])"
18:46 < skelterjohn> so it's the same as doing w.Write(thebuffer.Bytes())
except it empties the buffer
18:48 < hopso> So many ways to do the same thing
18:49 < skelterjohn> but...it doesn't do the same thing :)
18:49 < skelterjohn> WriteTo clears the buffer
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18:50 < hopso> Yush, that's the reason I use it.
18:55 < huin> what's the native endianness of the utf16 package?
18:56 < hopso> How can I read n bytes from net.Conn to bytes.Buffer?
ReadFrom() seems to read continuously.
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18:58 < huin> ah.  silly question from me
18:58 < huin> i see how it works
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19:00 < skelterjohn> hopso: ReadFrom will read until EOF
19:00 < skelterjohn> if you want to read exactly n bytes, call conn.Read()
with a byte slice of length n
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19:01 < hopso> Doesn't net.Conn give EOF only on disconnect?
19:01 < skelterjohn> probably
19:01 < skelterjohn> :)
19:02 < skelterjohn> means ReadFrom is probably not your solution
19:02 < skelterjohn> or, well
19:02 < skelterjohn> no, nvm
19:02 < skelterjohn> what purpose does the bytes.Buffer serve, in your case?
19:02 < hopso> I use it as the base for my Stream type
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19:03 < skelterjohn> not exactly what i meant
19:04 < hopso> And I use the Stream type to easily get values like
s.ReadUint16() or send them like s.WriteUint64(23)
19:04 < skelterjohn> i see
19:04 < skelterjohn> do you really need a buffer in between for that?
19:04 < skelterjohn> could you just read two bytes from the conn to do
s.ReadUint16()?
19:05 < skelterjohn> i have some code that does the same thing, i use a
buffer too
19:05 < hopso> Probably yes
19:05 < skelterjohn> but i wrote it so long ago that i don't remember why
19:05 < skelterjohn> i think because i was porting it from another language,
and the other code (written by someone else) had a buffer
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19:06 < skelterjohn>
http://code.google.com/p/go-glue/source/browse/rlglue/network.go
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19:10 < huin> how do i convert from UTF16 to UTF8 string in Go?
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19:10 < skelterjohn> maybe the unicode, utf16 and utf8 packages can help
19:11 < huin> ah, didn't notice the unicode one
19:11 < huin> ah.  no, doesn't help, sadly :(
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19:12 < skelterjohn> if you have a utf16.String
19:12 < skelterjohn> you could do utf16.NewString(s.String()) ?
19:13 < skelterjohn> i don't know if that loses anything in the conversion
to string and back
19:13 < skelterjohn> i know very little about unicode
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19:13 < huin> there's no utf16.String in my godoc
19:13 < skelterjohn> oh
19:13 < skelterjohn> mine neither
19:13 < skelterjohn> i assumed it would mirror utf8
19:13 < huin> sadly not
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19:14 < huin> it looks like i need to construct an encoder from what's in
utf8
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19:15 < skelterjohn> maybe you could update the utf16 package and submit it
to the distribution :)
19:15 < huin> hm...  maybe.  although i'm a bit lost as to what the intent
of their unicode libraries is
19:15 < skelterjohn> i certainly have no idea
19:16 < skelterjohn> it would make sense to post in golang-dev first
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19:16 < huin> i would.  but i'm finding myself rather buried :(
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19:18 < huin> writing a minecraft server...  and notch just changed the text
encoding from utf-8 to utf-16 >_<
19:18 < aiju> haha
19:18 < aiju> notch is a total idiot
19:18 < huin> i presume it's closer to java's internal char type
19:19 < huin> puts more data on the wire, tho :(
19:19 < aiju> and it sucks, that's the worst thing
19:19 < huin> i'm not terribly fussed on UTF-16, i have to say
19:19 < huin> i.e i don't like it much
19:20 < aiju> nobody sane does
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19:27 < huin> hm.  godoc is still unhappy :(
19:28 < skelterjohn> in what way
19:35 < huin> crashes on me a lot
19:35 < huin> malloc/free deadlock
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19:35 < huin> known bug last i heard.  hoped they'd fixed it, but i guess
not in the last weekly
19:40 < skelterjohn> hmm.  never had that problem
19:41 < skelterjohn> but i don't run godoc a lot
19:41 < skelterjohn> i use gortfm
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19:48 < skelterjohn> nsf: is there a way to make gortfm generate docs for
$GOROOT/src/pkg *and* other places?
19:48 < nsf> no
19:48 < nsf> :D
19:49 < nsf> it's really a small tool
19:49 < nsf> the main purpose was: generate doc for a single package
19:49 < nsf> I did it for go lib unintentionally in a hacky way
19:49 < nsf> so..
19:49 < nsf> source are here, good luck :D
19:50 < nsf> sources*
19:50 < skelterjohn> :\
19:51 < skelterjohn> could it be something as simple as calling
"filepath.Walk(goroot, dirVisitor(outdir), nil)" except on different directories,
in stdlib()?
19:51 < nsf> stdlib in gortfm-util calls gortfm app many times
19:51 < nsf> you can write a ruby wrapper for example
19:52 < nsf> to do that as well
19:52 < skelterjohn> is that a no?
19:52 < nsf> (gortfm-util was written in ruby initially, but for the sake of
removing a dependency I've rewritten it)
19:52 < nsf> it is yes more likely
19:52 < nsf> but keep in mind that stdlib also generates index
19:52 < nsf> gortfm itself can't do that
19:54 < nsf> skelterjohn: the biggest problem: gortfm-util extracts
information about .go files using make
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19:55 < skelterjohn> forked
19:55 < nsf> it does that like that: cp Makefile /tmp/tmpmake; echo
'printgofiles:\n\techo $GOFILES' >> /tmp/tmpmake
19:55 < nsf> somewhat like that
19:55 < nsf> I just add a rule to the makefile that prints $GOFILES
19:55 < nsf> gortfm tool expects the full list of package files as arguments
19:55 < nsf> and it dumps out a documentation for a single package, always
19:56 < nsf> so, you can easily make a wrapper that does all gortfm-util can
do
19:56 < nsf> and I would use ruby for that
19:56 < nsf> gortfm-util is in Go and it's ugly
19:56 < aiju> and expect everyone to have ruby installed
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19:57 < nsf> well, that's why I did it in Go
19:57 < nsf> for aiju
19:57 < nsf> :)
19:57 < aiju> haha
19:57 < nsf> but if skelterjohn just needs something that works, ruby is a
perfect choice
19:57 < skelterjohn> no
19:57 < skelterjohn> it isn't
19:57 < nsf> for a wrapper
19:57 < skelterjohn> nope
19:57 < nsf> which basically a shell script
19:57 < skelterjohn> still no
19:57 < nsf> whatever
19:58 < skelterjohn> :) because i don't have ruby installed
19:58 < nsf> python then
19:58 < skelterjohn> alternatively: your face
19:58 < nsf> I really don't care, but I'm just trying to be helpful
19:58 < skelterjohn> hehe
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20:08 < skelterjohn> nsf: i found what causes that -n to appear
20:09 < nsf> and this is?
20:09 < skelterjohn> your rule gofiles is "@echo -n "$(TARG):$(GOFILES)""
20:09 < skelterjohn> -n must be getting absorbed into some kind of meaning
for your platform
20:09 < skelterjohn> and for mine it's just getting echoed
20:09 < nsf> I see
20:09 < nsf> -n means without newline
20:09 < skelterjohn> what is -n supposed to do?
20:09 < skelterjohn> when i run echo -n in a terminal it works like you say
20:10 < nsf> :\
20:10 < nsf> interesting
20:11 < skelterjohn> what if i trim the data returned by run()
20:11 < skelterjohn> would that mess anything up?
20:11 < nsf> I don't know
20:11 < nsf> :)
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20:12 < nsf> I'm interested why this -n gets into the output
20:12 < nsf> it really shouldn't
20:12 < skelterjohn> *shrug*
20:12 < nsf> and note
20:12 < nsf> it gets into the output on some packages
20:12 < nsf> not everyone
20:13 < nsf> or it is on every package?
20:13 < nsf> is it*
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20:14 < skelterjohn> it's every package
20:14 < skelterjohn> i made a pull request
20:15 < nsf> hm..
20:15 < nsf> oh, I will take a look at it tomorrow
20:15 < nsf> it's late here, I don't want to break anything :)
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20:48 < hopso> Is there a difference between "b := make([]uint8, 4)" and
"var b [4]uint8"?
20:49 < nsf> yes
20:49 < exch> yes
20:49 < nsf> but not that much
20:49 < exch> first is a slice.  second is a fixed size array
20:49 < nsf> and if you'll take a slice of that array you have a first 'b'
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20:50 < nsf> :)
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20:50 < hopso> So it doesn't matter which I use if I use only the 4 first
elements?
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20:50 < nsf> it depends
20:51 < nsf> on how you use it
20:51 < nsf> just use slice, it will work for sure
20:51 < KirkMcDonald> Arrays and slices are a little different.
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20:53 < hopso> I use it like "b := make([]uint8, 4); s.Read(b[:]); return
binary.BigEndian.Uint32(b[:])"
20:53 < nsf> you don't have to do [:]
20:53 < nsf> with slice
20:53 < nsf> it is required for an array
20:53 < nsf> the thing is, in theory compiler can allocate array on the
stack
20:53 < nsf> and save one allocation for you
20:54 < nsf> which most likely won't change the weather anyway
20:54 < nsf> but since it doesn't do that for now
20:54 < nsf> it doesn't matter what you use
20:54 < nsf> array or slice
20:54 < nsf> it will move array to the heap when you're passing a slice of
it to a function
20:54 < hopso> Okies, so I'll just use the make method.  Looks nicer to me.
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20:57 < yiyus> niemeyer: are you around?
20:57 < niemeyer> yiyus: Yep
20:58 < yiyus> i think i did not understand you well
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20:59 < yiyus> so, your idea is that package authors have to always use
weekly.* and release.* tags in their projects, independently of go releases?
21:01 < niemeyer> yiyus: I'm fleshing out a more clearly written proposal
now
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21:01 < niemeyer> yiyus: But basically, yes, it would get a dated tag, and
the tag used by goinstall would be the one <= to the tag from the running
compiler
21:01 < yiyus> ok, i will wait to read that proposal
21:03 < yiyus> i don't think impossing so much is necessary, but maybe i'm
just missing somethig...
21:03 * nsf hates conventions
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21:04 < niemeyer> nsf: I hate convention haters
21:05 < nsf> :)
21:05 < niemeyer> nsf: But only on odd days..  on even days it's alright
21:05 < nsf> I hate convention hater haters on even days
21:05 < nsf> lol
21:06 < TheMue> Maybe it's the right time to hate convention hater haters.
21:06 < niemeyer> TheMue: Oh, I love those
21:07 < TheMue> niemeyer: Hehe
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21:09 < jnwhiteh> hrm
21:09 < jnwhiteh> could we have a convention for convention hater haters?
21:09 < jnwhiteh> or would that be taking things too far?  =)
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21:10 < nsf> jnwhiteh: we could, they don't hate conventions, so..
everything seems right
21:10 < nsf> :D
21:10 < jnwhiteh> I vote for Europe :P
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21:13 < TheMue> jnwhiteh: +1 LIKE
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21:13 < aiju> fuck conventions
21:13 < aiju> write code instead
21:14 < TheMue> aiju: Have good conventions (with a nice evening program)
and write good code too.
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21:24 < niemeyer> yiyus:
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-dev/t/2b8bd6cf25d87a95#
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21:32 < yiyus> niemeyer: the problem i see what your proposal is that it
doesn't consider packages upgrades independent from go releases
21:32 < niemeyer> yiyus: What's the issue there?
21:32 < yiyus> if the author of package B adds a new feature, he will have
to retag
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21:33 < niemeyer> yiyus: Yes, that is the case today as well, and will
always be the case no matter what
21:34 < yiyus> if he makes 10 commits between 05-01 and 05-08 (bugfixes, new
features, whatever) he will have to tag every commit
21:34 < yiyus> no, you could just install the last one available
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21:35 < yiyus> in your example, if go release is 05-01 you would install the
last commit before the one tagged 05-08
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21:38 < niemeyer> yiyus: That's not what tags are used for..  tags don't
mean "install whatever is after that point but before the next point"
21:38 < niemeyer> yiyus: So yes, people have to do it now, and they will
still have to do it
21:39 < yiyus> you could install only tags
21:39 < yiyus> but i don't think requiring everybody to tag their projects
as go releases is a nice thing to do
21:40 < yiyus> neither are tags an indication of the version of the language
that software was written for
21:40 < niemeyer> yiyus: Tags indicate something about that specific
revision, yes
21:41 < niemeyer> yiyus: In the convention being proposed they indicate
compatibility with a release of Go
21:41 < niemeyer> yiyus: So there's nothing strange in that camp, at least
21:41 < yiyus> what if i'm using more than a language in my project
21:42 < yiyus> should i tag every release of my software for every language
21:42 < yiyus> ?
21:42 < niemeyer> yiyus: You can do whatever you want with your tags
21:42 < niemeyer> yiyus: I'm proposing a convention which goinstall will
look for, specifically
21:42 < pTonnerre> Yes, one release for Go, one for C, one for Java, ...
21:42 < yiyus> yes, but a programming language should imposse as few as
possible on how i use them
21:43 < niemeyer> yiyus: The programming language isn't imposing anything at
all
21:43 < niemeyer> yiyus: This is a convention being suggested for the
goinstall tool specifically
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21:44 < niemeyer> yiyus: and if you don't care about having users able to
use your packages in a more stable way, you don't even have to follow that one
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21:44 < yiyus> who said i don't care?
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21:45 < yiyus> i don't see what's the problem with what i proposed, except
that you don't consider that the canonical use of tags
21:47 < yiyus> you can start looking for the right tag from the begining, as
you propose, or from the end, as i do
21:48 < yiyus> it doesn't make anything more inestable or unconventional
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21:52 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ZoyY7i by [Robert Griesemer] in go/doc/ -- go
spec: attempt at clarifying language for "append"
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22:00 < niemeyer> yiyus: A tag says something about the tagged version.
Hardly anyone will disagree with that.
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22:06 < yiyus> niemeyer: ok, so?
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22:06 < yiyus> cannot it mean "from here on we are using go version ..."?
22:06 < yiyus> instead, in your scheme, it means: "until here, we have used
go version ..."
22:07 < niemeyer> yiyus: No, it can't, because there's no correct definition
of "on"
22:07 < jnwhiteh> there is no chronology to tags...
22:07 < jnwhiteh> so it doesn't mean either of those
22:07 < niemeyer> yiyus: No, it doesn't..  in my scheme, it means *this
tagged version is compatible with Go 2011-03-15"
22:07 < niemeyer> yiyus: It won't pick anything in between tags and guess
it's meaning
22:08 < niemeyer> s/it's/its/
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22:08 < jnwhiteh> niemeyer: good, I'm glad we understand each other =)
22:09 < yiyus> tags have a very well defined order in hg, don't they in
other version control systems?
22:09 < niemeyer> jnwhiteh: Yeah, I won't suggest reinventing branches on
top of tags, don't worry ;-)
22:10 < jnwhiteh> yiyus: a tag is named pointer to a given commit in both hg
and git
22:10 < jnwhiteh> the *commits* may have an order
22:10 < jnwhiteh> but that doesn't mean the tags do
22:10 < jnwhiteh> and either way, that isn't relevant to what niemeyer is
suggesting, as I understand it.
22:11 < niemeyer> Right
22:11 < jnwhiteh> all this does is use the name of the tag as metadata to
indicate which version of Go the package is compatible with
22:13 < yiyus> my point is that if you can order tags, you don't need to add
metadata to all of them
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22:14 < yiyus> but now is not clear to me i fyou can order them or not
22:14 < jnwhiteh> with diverging branches, you can't order them with any
meaning =)
22:15 < jnwhiteh> in a simple linear project, you can
22:18 < yiyus> i'd prefer impossing simple linear projects that retagging
everything to the go version, but both solutions are really bad from my point of
view
22:18 < jnwhiteh> there's no 're-tagging'
22:18 < jnwhiteh> I'm not sure why you keep saying that
22:19 < yiyus> every bugfix or release of my package will have to be tagged
"go.bla-bla-bla" to be goinstallable
22:19 < jnwhiteh> no
22:19 < jnwhiteh> that's just patently false
22:19 < yiyus> uhm?
22:19 < pTonnerre> BTW, did someone fix the codesearch.google.com unit test?
22:19 < yiyus> how do you do it then?
22:20 < jnwhiteh> I'm not saying the proposed system is perfect, but it
degrades fine.  If you don't opt in, you keep the current behaviour which is
basically 'crap doesn't work'.  If you do choose to tag your release versions, as
you move forward, then you'll enable users with different versions of Go to
install your packages.
22:20 < jnwhiteh> Did you even read the post?
22:20 < yiyus> yes, i did
22:20 < jnwhiteh> okay, then I'm confused
22:21 < jnwhiteh> (that was not aggressive, I wanted to make sure we were on
the same page)
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22:22 < yiyus> if it does not have a tag of the form go.current it will
fallback to a version tagged go.previous, iiuc
22:22 < yiyus> so, once i tag a commit as go.whatever, i have to keep doing
it or that is the version that will be installed
22:23 < jnwhiteh> That's not entirely clear to me but I think that's
correct.  I'm not sure that's the right behaviour for the tool.
22:23 < jnwhiteh> its not an easy problem =)
22:24 < yiyus> no, it is not easy at all
22:24 < jnwhiteh> the goal is to be able to hg update <tag> for Go and
then be able to goinstall packages
22:24 < niemeyer> yiyus: Yes, in the same way that when you create a tarball
for your project, people will continue using the tarball until you release another
one saying "Here, that's good for you now."
22:24 < jnwhiteh> and I'm not sure of the best way to do that
22:24 < jnwhiteh> niemeyer: but there's no option to say 'use HEAD"
22:24 < jnwhiteh> other than manually
22:24 < jnwhiteh> that's the bit that's missing for me =/
22:25 < niemeyer> jnwhiteh: If you're using the tip of Go, these tags should
be ignored
22:25 < yiyus> niemeyer: my problem is i cannot chose the name of that
tarball, i have to name it go.bla-bla-bla, and i think that is a too strong
requirement
22:26 < jnwhiteh> i.e.  if I have a package, tagged against two weeklies ago
then any changes I make in HEAD won't be visible to any of my users other than
those who are using a version PRIOR to when I started tagging that way..  which
seems quite confusing to me =)
22:26 < yiyus> which i'm discovering could be needed, but i don't think you
can expect it to be followed
22:26 < jnwhiteh> ah, it wasn't clear that they were ignored when using tip
22:27 < jnwhiteh> Rob's point is real tho =)
22:27 < jnwhiteh> and if I can have the freedom to name my own tags and
still provide the metadata, I would consider that a major win.
22:28 < niemeyer> yiyus: Yeah, you can't choose the name of the tarball
because it has semantic meaning in the system.
22:28 < jnwhiteh> does hg have annotated tags?
22:29 < jnwhiteh> ah that doesn't help..  blarg.
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22:30 < jnwhiteh> I was thinking a .goinstall file with mappings (in HEAD)
could work..  but that means dirtying your main history with mapping commits on
top of the tagging =
22:30 < str1ngs> I rather goinstall be more branch aware then even more tag
aware.  There should be less work into promoting weekly.  the end prize should be
release.
22:30 < niemeyer> str1ngs: The problem is exactly the same in both
situations
22:30 < str1ngs> not really
22:30 < niemeyer> str1ngs: One happens every week, the other every month or
so
22:31 < str1ngs> not every one wants to mantain weekly tags.  and I don't
blame them
22:31 < yiyus> i think in the long term there will be more time between
releases, and they will be less agressive changes
22:32 < str1ngs> and if they do I rather have a weekly branch then tags
galour
22:34 < str1ngs> goinstall -branch=devel is more useful then making sure
users can install things based on there current checkout.  they should be atleast
using release, or encouraged to use it.
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22:57 < dchest> There needs to be math.Min and math.Max -->
http://golang.org/search?q=min
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--- Log closed Wed Apr 20 00:00:50 2011