--- Log opened Fri Apr 29 00:00:50 2011
00:06 < plexdev> http://is.gd/arJJnH by [Robert Griesemer] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/go/printer/ -- go/printer: added simple performance benchmark
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06:46 < Myr> Suddenly, I have stumbled into the go language irc channel.
Woe is me.
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06:46 < KirkMcDonald> We are nothing if not a font of woe.
06:47 < Myr> Oddly delicious.
06:48 < Kafo> Is it safe to do net.Conn.Read() and net.Conn.Write() at the
same time from different goroutines?
06:48 < dfc> Kafo, yes
06:48 < Kafo> Great, thanks.
06:49 < Myr> So out of curiousity, how mature are the sdl bindings and
similar for Go? I'm tossing around the idea with a friend of starting a new game
project in the language, for the hell of it.
06:50 < Kafo> Myr, Works fine on Linux, not sure about Windows and OS X.
06:50 < Myr> I'd focus on a linux build for development, with the idea of
porting it to windows when the release becomes a bit more..  wholesome?
06:51 < Myr> But yea, looks like a rather intuitive language.  Fun to be had
with mindless game creation and demo-esque oddities.  :D
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12:33 < skelterjohn> morning
12:35 < ww> 'morning
12:43 < xyproto> good afternooon
12:45 < ww> well, yes
12:45 * ww is happy flag waving is over now
12:46 < xyproto> ww: are you in UK? :)
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12:50 < ww> xyproto: yup, edinburgh - thank g-d not london, that would be
intolerable
12:51 < aiju> is god now censored?
12:53 < xyproto> ww: congrats still, then :)
12:53 < ww> what, me?  i didn't get married :)
12:54 < xyproto> ww: not even the tiniest bit?
12:54 < xyproto> aiju: I think jews are required to censor it, for other
major religions, I think it's voluntarily.
12:55 < xyproto> aiju: (of course, following a moral code of your choosing
should be considered voluntarily in the first place, like being a vegetarian)
12:55 < xyproto> aiju: (vegetarians can "sin" from time to time, but still
be vegetarians)
12:55 < aiju> the moral code i follow includes being compelled to ridicule
religion
12:56 < xyproto> aiju: interesting.  Almost like Tourettes?
12:56 < aiju> haha
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14:09 < juggaloking> hey hi
14:11 < xyproto> uhm, silly question, but how can I copy the contents of one
struct into another?
14:12 < aiju> a = b
14:13 < xyproto> aiju: that easy?  I wouldn't have known.  Thanks :)
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14:17 < plexdev> http://is.gd/DecQrn by [Evan Shaw] in go/src/pkg/http/cgi/
-- http/cgi: correctly set request Content-Type
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["Once you know what it is you want to be true, instinct is a very useful device
for enabling you to know that it is"]
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14:59 < duncg> Hello.
15:01 < xyproto> duncg: Hello.
15:01 < duncg> Anybody here?
15:01 < duncg> Hi.
15:01 < aiju> no
15:01 * aiju hides
15:02 < duncg> I'm new to go and was wondering if this was the right place
to ask questions.
15:03 < skelterjohn> it is indeed
15:03 < skelterjohn> shoot
15:03 < skelterjohn> well, depends what "go" you mean.
15:03 < skelterjohn> i do know how to play the game go, but i'm not really
an expert
15:04 < aiju> we're not talking about the board game ;P
15:04 < skelterjohn> if you want to know more about how to "go", then i'm
definitely not the right person to talk to
15:05 < aiju> actually this is a channel about insanity
15:05 < aiju> as is obvious from the channel name
15:05 < skelterjohn> aiju is your man for that topic
15:05 * ww would like to see a go playing ai written in go
15:05 < skelterjohn> well, the top go programs use monte-carlo tree search
as the basis of their algorithms
15:06 < skelterjohn> and i have written MCTS code in go
15:06 < skelterjohn> https://github.com/skelterjohn/rlalg/tree/master/fsss
15:06 < duncg> I like the game but I was hoping to ask about method
overloading.
15:07 < skelterjohn> it doesn't work like it does in java or with C++
virtual functions
15:07 < duncg> The FAQ on the website says go doesn't support this but an
entry from the blog seems to imply the the 'make' function does.
15:07 < skelterjohn> make is a special built-in
15:07 < skelterjohn> it cheats
15:07 < duncg> Ah cool.  Thanks.
15:08 < duncg> Sneaky.
15:08 < ww> make, copy and append are special
15:08 < skelterjohn> well, you can't write a function that takes a type as a
parameter
15:08 < skelterjohn> but you need to call one in order to allocate stuff in
a safe way
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15:10 < duncg> OK, thanks for clearing that up.  Goodbye.  P.S.  I really
like the language, I hope it takes off in an big way.
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[]
15:14 < ww> skelterjohn: have you thought at all about how markov processes
/ mc simulations might be related to statistical theorem proving?
15:14 < ww> (i haven't very much myself)
15:14 < skelterjohn> wow...uh...yes i have.  that is probably the last thing
i expected to be asked here
15:15 < ww> :)
15:15 < ww> it's a sideline that i don't have much time to devote to at the
moment.
15:15 < skelterjohn> what's your field?
15:16 < ww> skelterjohn: good question!
15:16 < skelterjohn> student/academic/industry?
15:17 < ww> mostly in but not of the university - currently working on data
catalogues with edina.ed.ac.uk
15:17 < ww> err...  edina.ac.uk
15:18 < ww> my interest in the topic stems from provenance, as applied to
rdf data - (subject, predicate, object) assertions together with rules
15:19 < ww> the current (but still uncommon) practice is to have rules
running in FOPL/Horn style
15:20 < ww> when you start including provenance data, you get "i believe
this assertion by X with Y% certainty" and you can't do the straightforward Rete
or back-chaining types of things with that
15:21 < ww> my actual work at the moment is groundwork - literally -
basically generating ground facts out of data in other forms
15:24 < xyproto> skelterjohn: I also play the game of go.  I was 5k on KGS
before I took a long break (took too much time).  Now I play on
dragongoserver.net.  It's nice, because it takes little time to just play a move
now and then.
15:25 < skelterjohn> ww: i just like thinking about inference and planning,
in general
15:25 < skelterjohn> i don't think much about classical theorem proving
specifically
15:26 < skelterjohn> but proving two expressions are equal seems like
something that could be done with MCTS and some good inference
15:26 < skelterjohn> xyproto: probably much better htan i am, then
15:33 < fzzbt> does go have ordered maps?
15:33 < taruti> no
15:36 < ww> skelterjohn: i suppose on some level that's equivalent.  i'm
thinking in terms of (1) deriving entailed statements and (2) explaining the
derivation
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15:36 < ww> it's the derivation part that i'm not sure about once you throw
probabilistic reasoning into the mix
15:37 < skelterjohn> what do you mean when you say probabilistic reasoning
15:37 < skelterjohn> do you mean reasoning about probability, or using
probability in your reasoning?
15:38 < ww> where you have statements of the form X believes Y with
probability P
15:38 < skelterjohn> i see
15:39 < ww> in the special case where P is always 1, you ignore X and then
use the usual forward or backward chaining techniques as usual
15:40 < skelterjohn> one of the hard things about reasoning this way is the
multi-path problem
15:40 < ww> but when your data sources are spread out over the net you don't
have that luxury otherwise you end up with rubbish entailments
15:40 < skelterjohn> if there are two ways for a statement to be true, then
the likelihood that the statement is true is <= to the sum of the likelihoods
of those two ways happening
15:40 < skelterjohn> that sort of thing
15:41 < skelterjohn> i have a paper you might be interested in
15:41 < skelterjohn> and when i say "i", i mean a guy in my department
15:41 < ww> sure
15:42 < skelterjohn> http://www.cs.rutgers.edu/~ccshan/rational/embedpp.pdf
15:42 < skelterjohn> don't be scared by the title
15:42 < skelterjohn> it's a simple idea
15:42 < skelterjohn> using real code and stochastic branching when random
choices have to be made
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15:42 < skelterjohn> (lunch)
15:43 < aiju> switch lunch {
15:43 < ww> bon apetit and thanks!
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16:40 < fzzbt> how can i make a pointer to any type of function
16:40 < aiju> not at all
16:41 < fzzbt> what do i do then
16:41 < aiju> not that
16:41 < aiju> you could try giving some context
16:42 < fzzbt> i have bunch of URL patterns that i want to match to certain
handler functions
16:43 < fzzbt> i want to use regexp to match them
16:43 < skelterjohn> you can have function values
16:44 < skelterjohn> var x func() = something
16:44 < skelterjohn> for instance
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16:44 < skelterjohn> and then pass x around
16:44 < skelterjohn> y
16:44 < skelterjohn> you don't need to pass around its address
16:44 < exch> type MyFunc func(a int) int; var f MyFunc = some_handler
16:45 < xulfer> Hm could you not do this with unsafe?
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16:45 < skelterjohn> i can't imagine how that could be a good idea
16:45 < exch> why would you need unsafe for that?
16:45 < skelterjohn> since you can do it completely safely
16:46 < xulfer> Well I wasn't saying it was a good idea
16:46 < fzzbt> oh nvm, all the functions are same type anyway
16:47 < xulfer> exch: Wasn't commenting on your suggestion.
16:47 < skelterjohn> xulfer: :)
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16:50 < plexdev> http://is.gd/lFFmTH by [Robert Griesemer] in go/doc/ --
spec: narrow syntax for expression and select statements
16:56 < kamaji> If I use new, will maps in my struct be automatically
created with make?
16:59 < wrtp> kamaji: no
16:59 < wrtp> xulfer: you can do anything with unsafe...
17:00 < kamaji> thought not.  thanks
17:00 < xulfer> So yes.
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17:38 < plexdev> http://is.gd/ywB97g by [Ian Lance Taylor] in
go/src/pkg/http/cgi/ -- http/cgi: pass down environment variables for irix and
solaris
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17:55 < plexdev> http://is.gd/PAcH9Z by [Brad Fitzpatrick] in 2 subdirs of
go/src/pkg/image/ -- image: png & jpeg encoding benchmarks
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19:27 < plexdev> http://is.gd/5ACsKj by [Robert Griesemer] in go/doc/ --
undo CL 4428057 / 19e540fc7d7d
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19:47 < telexicon> i dont know why i dismissed go initially, this language
is awesome, it balances everything im looking for very well
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19:49 < aiju> haha
19:49 < aiju> telexicon: same for me ;P
19:51 < telexicon> its got simplicity (boo c++), fast compile (boo c++), its
got elegant simplicity and grammar (boo c), its got speed (boo python), its got
great concurrency (boo everything except erlang)
19:52 < kamaji> ooh, c++ got boo'ed twice
19:52 < kamaji> BURN, c++
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19:55 < telexicon> there are more things i could boo c++ for
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19:56 < telexicon> how about balancing simple but powerful type system
19:56 < aiju> boo c?  wtf?  ;P
19:56 < aiju> but yeah, C grammar is sort of fucked up
19:56 < telexicon> aiju, yeah, c grammar is still messy, and the
preprocessor, or requiring function prototypes
19:57 < aiju> C is still fairly high on my list
19:57 < telexicon> its a bunch of stuff required by ancient hardware that
isnt an issue anymore
19:57 < aiju> nah that's not it
19:58 < aiju> even dmr dislikes the preprocessor
19:58 < aiju> also, not all C compilers have preprocessors ;P
19:59 < telexicon> aiju, oh?
19:59 < aiju> kencc (used by Go) does the preprocessing during parsing
20:00 < telexicon> aiju, still, go cleans up most of the issues i have with
c, has more power in the typesystem, avoids most of the pitfalls and had a fast
parse time
20:00 < telexicon> and strong concurrency
20:00 < aiju> telexicon: true
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20:10 < huin> telexicon: strong parse time that scales better to larger
numbers of modules, too
20:10 < huin> s/strong/fast/
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20:15 < plexdev> http://is.gd/TAR47W by [Robert Griesemer] in
go/src/pkg/go/parser/ -- go/parser: accept parenthesized receive operations in
select statements
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20:22 < gmilleramilar> are the recent changes to goinstall (GOPATH and
execuatable) written up anywhere?
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20:31 < niemeyer_> gmilleramilar: Hmmm..  only in mail threads I think
20:31 < niemeyer_> gmilleramilar: The idea is pretty basic, though
20:31 < niemeyer_> gmilleramilar: You set GOPATH to the directory you want
your packages installed to, and goinstall will use it
20:32 < niemeyer_> gmilleramilar: If there are multiple entries, they will
be used to satisfy dependencies, and the first one will be used as the target.
20:32 < niemeyer_> gmilleramilar: That's pretty much it
20:32 < gmilleramilar> where does the source get checked out?
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20:35 < niemeyer> gmilleramilar: At $GOPATH[0]/src
20:35 < gmilleramilar> cool.
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20:48 < skelterjohn_> niemeyer: do you know if goinstall will support
multiple entries in GOPATH, yet?
20:48 < niemeyer> skelterjohn_: It does
20:49 < niemeyer> skelterjohn_: (already)
20:49 < niemeyer> skelterjohn_: Separate them using the typical token in
your OS (e.g.  : in Linux)
20:55 < skelterjohn_> so, if i put my own project in $AGOPATHDIR/src/myproj
20:55 < skelterjohn_> and "goinstall myproj" that should work?
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20:58 < niemeyer> skelterjohn_: That's correct
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21:23 < TheMue> [ANN] Tideland Redis Database Client for Go now in beta
status.  http://bit.ly/l6Ns91
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21:26 < Allotabits> Anyone using Go-SDL on Windows?
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23:29 < nbm> Are there any plans to make exp/draw/x11 more complete?
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23:49 < uriel> nbm: what are you missing?
23:50 < jessta_> nbm: you could try using
http://code.google.com/p/x-go-binding/
--- Log closed Sat Apr 30 00:00:00 2011