--- Log opened Mon May 23 00:00:48 2011
--- Day changed Mon May 23 2011
00:00 < fumon> Okay.  I'll post the type definitions.
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00:03 < fumon> https://gist.github.com/986030
00:05 < dfc> sorry, that doesnt' help me understand the problem much
00:05 < dfc> can you post the code that doesnt' work at the moment ?
00:05 < skelterjohn> fumon: just in case - there is no casting in go.  only
conversion.  that is, if you do a_B = B(a_C), a_B and a_C do not refer to the same
data
00:06 < fumon> skelterjohn: Yes, that's as I've experienced.  Wrong
terminology.
00:06 < skelterjohn> cool.  and, like dfc, i still don't understand what
you're trying to do, exactly
00:07 < skelterjohn> what is the type of the thing you used gob to encode?
00:07 < fumon> dfc: The issue is that I'm about to write the web-facing side
of this app and I've filled a database with my corpus gob encoded with that
CorpusText entry.
00:09 < skelterjohn> that is, you called theEncoder.Encode(x).  what type is
x?
00:09 < skelterjohn> a CorpusText?
00:09 < skelterjohn> a []CorpusText?
00:09 < fumon> Now I'm wondering if I have to go back and reencode all that
data into the base slice type instead since I've realized I want to just have one
template that gets passed the data and use .repeat section on it but to do that
I'd need to cast it to its underlying type each time...  and the type CorpusText
has as its underlying type has got the same issue.
00:09 < fumon> A single CorpusText
00:09 < skelterjohn> a CorpusEntry?
00:09 < skelterjohn> ok
00:10 < skelterjohn> converting a CorpusText to a []LogLinePlain should be
fast
00:10 < skelterjohn> it's only a 3-word structure it has to replicate
00:10 < fumon> It's then that I have to convert LogLinePlain into
[]LogLineToken for each LogLinePlain in []LogLinePlain...
00:11 < skelterjohn> check if you can convert the CorpusText to a
[][]LogLineToken
00:11 < fumon> And because I'm doing templates, I'll have to append to a
string or do a buffer to format them all.
00:11 < fumon> skelterjohn: That would be the ideal.  I'll do a test.
00:11 < skelterjohn> i don't promise that will work
00:11 < skelterjohn> but i think it might
00:12 < skelterjohn> a related question - why do you want a []LogLineToken
instead of a LogLinePlain?
00:12 < skelterjohn> you don't get any extra behavior out of a
[]LogLineToken
00:12 < skelterjohn> and you can still index into a LogLinePlain
00:13 < fumon> Index, yes.  But does it play nice with range?
00:14 < skelterjohn> yes
00:14 < fumon> I will go back and reencode if nessisary to make it work the
way I need it to.  I was just wondering if I was missing something completely
obvious because I've run into this problem before.
00:15 < skelterjohn> if you subtype a built-in type, you can use it exactly
like you'd use the built-in type
00:15 < skelterjohn> slices, maps, chans
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00:18 < hallas> subtype
00:18 < hallas> :o
00:18 < hallas> I guess you could call it that
00:19 < skelterjohn> i'd like to use a more appropriate word
00:19 < skelterjohn> i just can't think of one right now
00:21 < fumon> Alias?
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00:22 < hallas> subtype is probably apropiate enough
00:23 < hallas> but really, supertype is whwat it is?  as you usually expand
on the type when you declare it under a new name?
00:23 < skelterjohn> alias, like subtype, has a different meaning in a
different context
00:24 < skelterjohn> the normal meaning for subtype - the is-a relationship
in OOP - refers to the subtype expanding on the supertype
00:24 < hallas> screw it
00:24 < skelterjohn> :)
00:24 < hallas> we can call it what we want
00:24 < hallas> :P
00:24 < fumon> Well it looks like I can't cast it to a [][]LogLineToken.
00:25 < fumon> cannot convert tSliceLogLinePlain (type
[]corpus.LogLinePlain) to type [][]corpus.LogLineToken
00:25 < fumon> But from what you say, I should be able to range over it,
yes?
00:26 < skelterjohn> yes
00:26 < fumon> Actually, I think that it's just the first cast that I need.
I can see in the code how I managed it last time and it worked.  Just couldn't
range over the CorpusText for some reason.  Had to cast it.
00:27 < hallas> I hate coming up with names for your work
00:27 < skelterjohn> if CorpusText had the same definition in the gist you
posted earlier, you can range on it
00:28 < skelterjohn> https://gist.github.com/986048
00:29 < fumon> Yes.  Hold on.  I'm going to try recompiling that section of
code which I casted it for earlier.
00:32 < fumon> Hmm, no error with the compile.  I'll try running it.
00:32 < skelterjohn> one mistake i made a lot when i started with go was
"for value := range aSlice {"
00:32 < skelterjohn> value gets the index, not the value
00:33 < skelterjohn> but you can do "for _, value := range aSlice {" and get
the actual value
00:33 < fumon> Yeah.  I always do that.
00:33 < skelterjohn> so maybe that was it - the type you got out of range
was an int when you wanted a somethingElse
00:33 < fumon> No, the code is functional and I use the index, value syntax.
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00:34 < fumon> Well, no run time error either.
00:34 < fumon> I guess I was being overly cautious.
00:35 < skelterjohn> heh
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00:35 < fumon> I tried a similar thing in November that involved some even
less idomatic code and I guess it was a "once bitten twice shy" kind of thing.
00:37 < fumon> Alright well it looks like all my fears were unfounded.
Thanks for exposing my "trying to make things harder than they are" moment.  I
should really know better by now that Go "just works" a lot of the time.
00:38 < skelterjohn> my pleasure
00:38 < exch> caution is always a good thing.  One generally learns the hard
way that when things look too good to be true, they usually are.  Go just has a
knack for undermining that age old truth :p
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00:40 < fumon> I think Go, like Plan 9, has that rare quality of follwing
the more modern adage "The ideal machine is one where the function is achived...
and there is no machine"
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05:39 < manveru> alrighty
05:40 < manveru> i think my queue is finally getting somewhere :)
05:40 < manveru> http://pastie.org/1959577
05:47 < wallerdev> looks good
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08:02 < kevlar> phew, that was one major refactor.
08:02 < kevlar> 299 insertions, 69 deletions, 13 files.  And all tests
passed out of the box when I finished :D
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08:03 < kevlar> I don't think that would have been possible in C or C++, and
it would have been really buggy in python
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08:31 < Ekspluati> kevlar, Nice
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10:18 < vegai>
http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/hhotd/research_and_development_are_two_different_things/c1viex5?context=3
10:18 < vegai> slightly too trolly, am I?
10:25 < jnwhiteh> i'm not sure what PL research Go allegedly 'ignores' here
10:26 < vegai> I suppose the groupthink is that if it doesn't include
feature X, it's ignoring feature X
10:26 < vegai> "because I like feature X, it must be good"
10:26 < jnwhiteh> that's an absurd premise =)
10:28 < jnwhiteh> kamatsu has a post that lists 5 things that Go is terrible
for ignoring.
10:28 < jnwhiteh> 1.  sum types (meh)
10:28 < jnwhiteh> 2.  parametric polymorphism (he claims that C++ and Java
have those, they don't, they have generics which are not the same as parametric
polymorphism.)
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10:29 < jnwhiteh> 3.  No effect control or immutable data model, 4.  No full
sybtyping (lulz) and 5.  Null pointers
10:29 < jnwhiteh> I'm so glad I ignore reddit.
10:30 < Fib> They would be nice features to have if they were pleasant to
use; go's main advantage is that it's an improvement on C that is actually
pleasant.
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10:30 < jnwhiteh> The complaints amount to "Go doesn't have this feature I
consider a requirement"
10:30 < jnwhiteh> none of this has anythign to do with academic research
10:31 < jnwhiteh> as an academic researcher, this isn't difficult to see =)
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10:36 < vegai> jnwhiteh: yeah, I'm considering that ignoring thing too
10:36 < vegai> it probably snarfs 90% of my time without giving anything
back as it is
10:36 < jnwhiteh> *if* I were to respond to those threads, it would be that
no one has (in the least) shown what 'research' Go has chosen to ignore
10:37 < jnwhiteh> the only case they can possibly make is null references,
which isn't research..  its just the opinion of Tony Hoare and it goes much deeper
than the surface title of the talk (which people seem to have not read)
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10:38 * vegai deleted his account
10:38 < vegai> light feeling.
10:38 < jnwhiteh> I still have one, oddly so I can post links about Go when
relevant :;
10:38 < vegai> also, 127.0.0.1 reddit.com :)
10:39 < jnwhiteh> see, now you're the one ignoring research =)
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10:40 < vegai> Reddit University honorary PhD just has to wait :/
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11:45 < manveru> hm
11:45 < manveru> jnwhiteh: well, i'd love to see a way to get rid of null :)
11:46 < vegai> that I can agree with
11:48 < manveru> but i fear that would have quite severe performance issues
:|
11:48 < vegai> heh, I catch myself writing 'reddit.com' in my browser once
every ten minutes
11:49 < vegai> some psychologist should look into that
11:51 < manveru> i think that falls under procrastination, i'm trying to
limit myself to around 1h of news a day...  ain't easy
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11:51 < vegai> indeed
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14:47 < xyproto> why is the number 5 chosen for Arm?
14:47 < xyproto> I can understand 8 for x86 and 6 for 64-bit, but 5?  :)
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14:53 < dlowe> 6 is for amd64
14:53 < dlowe> and the instruction set is arm5
14:53 < mpl> http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/2c
14:54 < dlowe> ah, funny.  I didn't know that's where it came from
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15:02 < taruti> Is there a reason freetype-go is gpl?
15:03 < dlowe> To ensure it's only used by GPL'd projects?
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15:10 < xyproto> mpl: thanks!
15:10 < mpl> xyproto: np.  it doesn't really answer your question (since I
haven't found any reason on that page), but at least there's the historical why.
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15:13 < xyproto> mpl: it helps, I thought 6 was for 64-bit instead of amd64.
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15:18 < jeremy_c> skelterjohn: the new gb works great on go-iup now.
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16:03 < freetz> was netchan.Import ever supposed to get a drain method?  I
saw something from rob last year about it, but the documentation still indicates
it's not there
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17:48 < str1ngs> niemeyer: gorun TMPDIR nice work thanks
17:48 < niemeyer> str1ngs: My pleasure
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18:06 < eimantas> good evening
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18:16 < Ekspluati> Is the organization of programs to cmd/ and packages to
pkg/ a standard for go projects?
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18:31 < rutkowski> Hello, has anyone encountered similar error after
'all.bash' in latest trunk?: http://pastie.org/1962445
18:32 < str1ngs> rutkowski: what version of gcc?
18:32 < rutkowski> str1ngs: 4.6.0
18:33 < str1ngs> hmm first ./clean.bash
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18:34 < rutkowski> hmm same
18:35 < str1ngs> gah I suck with hg
18:36 < str1ngs> hg log | head -1
18:36 < str1ngs> what changset to have
18:36 < rutkowski> str1ngs: changeset: 8484:29f2dc9c98e7
18:36 < str1ngs> ok and hg update?
18:36 < rutkowski> str1ngs: 0 files updated, 0 files merged, 0 files
removed, 0 files unresolved
18:37 < rutkowski> it's up to date
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18:38 < rutkowski> maybe my gcc is broken somehow :/
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18:39 < str1ngs> no
18:39 < str1ngs> could be sed related
18:39 < str1ngs> sed --version
18:39 < rutkowski> GNU sed wersja 4.2.1
18:39 < str1ngs> same so its not that
18:40 < str1ngs> let me see if it fails for me
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18:40 < str1ngs> what distro are you on gcc 4.6.0 is pretty new
18:41 < Tonnerre> Maybe Fedora
18:41 < rutkowski> Arch
18:41 < str1ngs> testing or core?
18:41 < rutkowski> testing...
18:41 < str1ngs> ah thats it then
18:41 < str1ngs> try with gcc from core
18:42 < rutkowski> no, 4.6.0 is allready in core in Arch :]
18:42 < str1ngs> yes but gcc uses snapshots
18:42 < str1ngs> which allan bases off of pkgrel
18:43 < str1ngs> see with gcc --version
18:43 < str1ngs> gcc (GCC) 4.6.0 20110513 (prerelease)
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18:53 < rutkowski> str1ngs: still same error, I've downgraded to gcc-4.5.2-6
18:54 < rutkowski> binutils...?
18:54 < str1ngs> hmm ya seems there is no gcc in testing I just checked
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18:54 < chomp> problem with gcc?
18:55 < rutkowski> not sure
18:55 < chomp> what's going on
18:55 < rutkowski> http://pastie.org/1962445
18:55 < chomp> yeah
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18:55 < chomp> saw this a few nights ago
18:55 < chomp> problem seems to be that gcc 4.someversion+ is treating "foo"
as a const char*
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18:56 < chomp> simplest solutions is to remove -Werror from the make
settings
18:56 < str1ngs> yes but that does not explain why it would work for me
18:57 < str1ngs> rutkowski: I would first try with a clean hg repo.  and
also pacman -Syu
18:57 < str1ngs> but this still seems odd
18:57 < rutkowski> will try
18:57 < str1ngs> pacman -Syyu to be double safe
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19:06 < chomp> so the problem is due to the presence or absense of
-Wwrite-strings
19:06 < chomp> which im assuming may be builtin as a default in some
distributions of GCC
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19:07 < chomp> or so it seems.  i can reproduce the problem by explicitly
adding it to my ccflags
19:07 < str1ngs> yes but we are on the same distro and gcc and it builds for
me.
19:07 < str1ngs> why it seems strange
19:07 < chomp> yikes
19:07 < chomp> same exact systems...  that doesn't make sense at all
19:07 < str1ngs> yep
19:08 < str1ngs> mind you if removing -Werror resolves it go with that.  but
it I would want to investigate further
19:08 < chomp> same architecture?
19:08 < str1ngs> hmm good idea I'm on x86_64
19:09 < chomp> he is too it seems
19:09 < chomp> error is while building 6c
19:09 < str1ngs> 6c ya
19:09 < chomp> heh logic dictates that something has to be different :)
19:09 < chomp> rutkowski, any results from a clean clone?
19:10 < str1ngs> 6g -V . not so helpful lol
19:10 < str1ngs> I'll try from clean clone to be safe
19:12 < str1ngs> hg checkout tip;hg update is the same as git co master?
19:12 < chomp> unsure
19:12 < chomp> how about rm -rf go; hg clone ...  // :)
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19:13 < str1ngs> ya I'll do that
19:14 < chomp> only problem with my -Wwrite-strings theory is that it should
cause the build to fail before it even makes it to cmd
19:14 < chomp> lib9 fails to build with it set
19:15 < rutkowski> argh still the same problem.  I've rm -rf go; hg cloned
it; also did pacman -Syyu
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19:16 < str1ngs> build fine here fresh clone.  tests are running now
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19:17 < chomp> rutkowski, if you just want to get it working, delete line 38
of src/quietgcc.bash (the one that reads "-Werror \")
19:17 < chomp> still want to understand this, but that'll get you building
ok
19:19 < chomp> you said you're both on the same distro str1ngs.  you sure
you both have the same version of bison?
19:20 < str1ngs> bison (GNU Bison) 2.4.3
19:20 < rutkowski> bison (GNU Bison) 2.5
19:20 < chomp> hrm.
19:21 < chomp> str1ngs, can you pop into your y1.tab.c and look at the
declaration of yerror and friends?
19:21 < str1ngs> ah there is a bison in testing
19:21 < chomp> or have you done that already
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19:21 < str1ngs> I can one sec chomp
19:22 < chomp> oddly enough i can't seem to find any trace of bison output
in my go sources ><
19:22 < rutkowski> removing -Werror helped
19:23 < mibocote> what happens if you run: echo -e "#include
<stdio.h>\nvoid test(char* a) { printf(\"%s\",a); }\nvoid main() {
test(\"blah\"); }" | gcc -o test.o -xc -
19:23 < str1ngs> rutkowski: ya removeing -Werror will fix that of course.
but now we know its bison related
19:24 < chomp> str1ngs, maybe bison related :)
19:25 < chomp> mibocote, he'll get a warning about discarding the const
qualifier, that much is almost certain
19:25 < str1ngs> chomp: I'm not sure where to look here
19:25 < str1ngs> I can install bison and test with that
19:25 < mibocote> which I don't get on gcc 4.4.3, which makes me think that
gcc has changed how it handles that
19:25 < chomp> mibocote, yes but the problem is that str1ngs and he are
using exactly the same GCC
19:25 < chomp> one sees the warning, the other doesn't
19:26 < chomp> but that was my first thought oo.  and in fact if you turn on
-Wwrite-strings you will see the warning too
19:26 < rutkowski> mibocote: it build test.o just fine
19:26 < chomp> rutkowski, no warning?  o_O
19:26 < rutkowski> mibocote: ./test.o -> 'blah'
19:26 < rutkowski> naw
19:27 < str1ngs> rutkowski: chomp confirmed fails with bison 2.5
19:27 < chomp> but it's not necessarily bison's fault now
19:27 < chomp> because mibocote's code should have produced the warning
19:27 < rutkowski> well this is with bison 2.5
19:27 < chomp> it does the same thing, passes a string literal as a char*
argument
19:27 < chomp> bison doesn't enter the picture with that example
19:28 < chomp> in other words if mibocote's example built with no warning,
bison 2.5's output should too
19:28 < str1ngs> I suck at C why I use go :P
19:28 < chomp> funky.  i don't suppose you have muliple gcc installs.
19:28 < mibocote> try: echo -e "#include <stdio.h>\nvoid test(char* a)
{ printf(\"%s\",a); }\nint main() { test(\"blah\"); return 0; }" | gcc -Wall -o
test.o -xc -
19:28 < rutkowski> god no..
19:28 < chomp> go build could be using one version, $PATH another
19:28 < mibocote> I wonder if Wall includes there warning?
19:29 < chomp> Wall does not include it
19:29 < chomp> well hmm, maybe in that version
19:29 < mibocote> I know it shouldn't
19:29 < rutkowski> mibocote: worked as well
19:29 < mibocote> but I can't figure out why go gives teh warning but my
test doesn't
19:30 < mibocote> I also found this in the bugtracker and it looks like
bison is to blame: https://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1843
19:30 < chomp> i saw that too
19:31 < chomp> weird
19:31 < chomp> it doesn't make sense though, still
19:31 < mibocote> scratching my head
19:32 < chomp> it has to be string literal -> char*, which maybe is
emitted by bison 2.5 and wasnt in earlier versions
19:32 < chomp> but that should obviously have consistent results in gcc
19:33 < chomp> i have deb unstable at home, im guessing i can pull bison 2.5
onto it check it out later
19:34 < chomp> rutkowski, could you try something else?  add -Werror back
but also add -Wno-write-strings
19:34 < chomp> i think if the solution for now were to add
-Wno-writer-strings to quietgcc.bash, that would be cleaner than hacking the sed
command
19:34 < rutkowski> chomp: ok one sec
19:35 < chomp> no-write-strings, gah.
19:36 < rutkowski> chomp: it failed miserably :)
19:36 < rutkowski> same way
19:36 < chomp> interesting indeed
19:38 < chomp> what is on line 5203 of y1.tab.c anyway
19:38 < chomp> err y.tab.c i guess
19:39 < rutkowski> yyerror (yymsgp);
19:39 < chomp> ahh
19:40 < mibocote> can you put your y1.tab.c on pastbin?  (runners of bison
2.5)
19:40 < chomp> makes sense, now the problem is that yymsg is a const char*,
not a string literal
19:40 < chomp> and that should be an error even without -Werror
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19:48 < chomp> im building 2.5 now
19:52 < chomp> hah well look at that
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20:00 < chomp> well, i can confirm that this is definitely a bug in bison
2.5.  a pretty ludicrous bug, too
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20:01 < chomp> what's surprising is that it doesn't break even without
-Werror, because an implicit cast from const char* down to char* shouldn't be
legal
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20:10 < mibocote> bug or convention change?
20:10 < chomp> actually i think this might count as a go bug
20:11 < chomp> there are lots of places where things should be treated as
const char*
20:11 < chomp> but aren't
20:11 < chomp> there's no reason, for example, why yyerror shouldnt be
declared as yyerror(const char* fmt, ...)
20:12 < chomp> and making that change cascades into a whole host of other
const qualification errors
20:12 < mibocote> heh
20:12 < chomp> lib9 has them too
20:12 < chomp> why does strecpy take a non-const source pointer, for example
20:12 < chomp> broken
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22:16 < Urtie> Is there a way to make http.Error() stop padding the body
with "Chrome/IE would ignore this error page if this text weren't here." messages?
They don't look all that professional..
22:17 < Urtie> Other than padding my own message with a bunch of spaces or
something silly like that, that is
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22:24 < str1ngs> Urtie: I would think you wan to create your own then see
something like http://golang.org/doc/codelab/wiki/#tmp_192
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22:28 < Urtie> str1ngs: The issue seems to be that the http package always
pads the error output if the http code is 4xx or 5xx, no matter if I use my own
error handler or not.  The errorKludge method in the http package.
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22:34 < str1ngs> Urtie: that might be intended.  I think the idea is to
present you own 404 etc either static of handler if you will
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22:36 < str1ngs> but still I would think there would be a way to have a less
verbose error string . even if it is designed to by pass IE and chrome.  maybe
post to the ML
22:36 < Urtie> str1ngs: Yeah, I understand it's intended, but I would really
like to turn it off.  A static handler doesn't help, since the package seems to
check the return code and padding the output with that message if the return code
is 4xx or 5xx, no matter if you use their handlers or your own.  My issue is that
users can supply their own 404-files, and they're sometimes shorter than the
1024-byte limit.
22:36 < str1ngs> ah
22:36 < Urtie> I can either take their 404-files and pad them with 1024
bytes worth of spaces, which I'm doing now, or I can find a way to turn it off
22:37 < str1ngs> ok maybe ask on the ML. since I think maybe this is there
to make testing easier . but its not so production friendly in the process
22:37 < Urtie> Yes, it looked a little like "we'll stick this here for now,
and then revisit".
22:38 < str1ngs> I think so to
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--- Log closed Tue May 24 00:00:50 2011