--- Log opened Wed Jun 01 00:00:52 2011
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01:11 < kuroneko> what's missing from Go's TLS implementation, and is there
any plan to implement SSL?
01:11 < Namegduf> Is there any SSL stuff existing which can't talk TLS?
01:11 * Namegduf would be worried about using software that slow to update
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01:12 < kuroneko> I'm interested more for new C/S implementations, not for
talking to existing.
01:12 < kuroneko> although there are some differences in session set-up for
TLS vs SSL in quite a few protocols
01:12 < Namegduf> New C/S implementations?
01:13 < kuroneko> client/server - as in I'm writing something and I need
encrypted sockets :P
01:13 < Namegduf> Use TLS.
01:13 < Namegduf> TLS is just renamed SSL, you know?
01:13 < Namegduf> More precisely, it's the name used for all versions of SSL
after a certain point
01:13 < kuroneko> yes, but the big "partially implements" in crypto/tls is
also what I'm worried about.  :)
01:14 < kuroneko> hence the "what's missing"
01:16 < KBme> CRYPTOGEEEK :P
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01:18 < kuroneko> you don't put "partially implements" into something
critical for session security without qualifying what "partial" actually means.
>_<
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01:34 <@adg> What Go libraries (outside the standard lib) do you folks use?
01:34 <@adg> got any favourites?
01:35 < KBme> plan9, 9p, sqlite
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03:26 < uriel> adg: specific libs or functionality?  I'm both toying with
the various markdown and sexprs libs, not too impressed with any of them so far
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03:33 <@adg> specific projects
03:36 < str1ngs> adg: https://github.com/kless/go-term is what I use most
outside of the stdlib
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03:39 < blbl> adg: mostly my own stuff..  go-pkg-ini, go-pkg-optarg, and my
go s-expression parser 'gsx'
03:40 < vsmatck> Hm. Not a library but I love the godag build system.
03:41 < str1ngs> I would probably use a native yaml package over json if
there was one.
03:42 < vsmatck> I used to depend on 3 external libraries for web app stuff.
Ended up replacing them all myself because they were poor quality.
03:42 < uriel> yaml?  yuck!
03:43 < uriel> why would anyone want to use the hideous monster that is yaml
instead of the simple beauty that is json?
03:44 < elimisteve> troll
03:45 < str1ngs> yaml makes for better human editable config files over
jason
03:46 < str1ngs> unless you are joking?
03:47 < uriel> yaml makes for a hideous error-prone insanely complex to
parse language
03:47 < vsmatck> Because of the indentation?
03:48 < uriel> the amount of garbage that is 'valid' yaml makes it
unsuitable for pretty much anything, other than as an example of how to build
something worse than xml
03:48 < uriel> because of everything, take a look at the yaml spec some time
03:48 < uriel> and compare it to the json spec
03:48 * vsmatck never heard of yaml until 3 mins ago.
03:48 < uriel> vsmatck: lucky you
03:48 < exch> nothing beats the elegant simplicity of s expressions :p
03:49 < vsmatck> John McCarthy would disagree with you.  He says s
expressions sacrifice human readability for parseability.  *paraphrase*
03:49 < uriel> sexprs are nice, json gives you a bit more semantic structure
03:49 < uriel> both are great
03:50 < vsmatck> Well, good for some things, not good for others.
03:50 < uriel> vsmatck: as opposed to what?  csv or key=value?  (both csv
and key=value are great by the way, and infinitely better than yaml)
03:50 * exch likes his ini files for some stuff
03:51 < uriel> sexprs are good for some things, json is good for some
things, csv is good for some things, key=value is good for some things, XML and
YAML are horrible for everything
03:51 < vsmatck> I use my own key=value for go.
03:51 < uriel> among what sexprs, jsona and other sane formats, there is
some overlap, but they are all pretty good
03:52 < str1ngs> uriel: that just your opinion.  which you are entitled.
however I fine yaml useful for config files.  by all means continue to use json
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03:57 <@adg> whenever i see "sexprs" i just see "SEXprs"
03:58 < uriel> that yaml is a monstruosity is not an opinion, the spec
spells it out clearly enough for everyone to see
03:59 < uriel> adg: I think you are not the only one :)
03:59 < elimisteve> adg: it's called "being a guy," I believe
04:01 < elimisteve> not to be sexist...  against us guys
04:04 <@adg> wow, it is very long http://yaml.org/spec/1.2/spec.html
04:04 < nsf> I read it all
04:05 < nsf> it is long, but it's not complex
04:05 < nsf> after reading it I started to like yaml
04:05 < nsf> :)
04:05 <@adg> ergo, uriel has never read the spec!
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04:08 < vsmatck> https://github.com/nickmartini/dongml
04:09 < nsf> lol
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04:35 < kuroneko> adg: hey, since when ever has uriel let reality get in the
way of a good trolling?
04:35 < kuroneko> [hi uriel!]
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05:29 < jessta_> I'd have to agree that yaml is horrible
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07:47 < vegai> I feel like I'm reading a file in a slightly too complex way
07:47 < vegai> I have a LineReader, and I iterate through the file like so:
07:47 < vegai> for line, _, _ := myReader.ReadLine(); line != nil; line, _,
_ := myReader.ReadLine() { ...  }
07:48 < vegai> there's certainly a way to avoid the repetition, isn't there?
07:50 < str1ngs> vegai: yes you can break on nil
07:50 < elimisteve> vegai: here's how I read a file --
http://pastie.org/2002274
07:50 < str1ngs> for { line,_,_ := myReader.Readline(); if line == nil {
break } }
07:52 < vegai> hmm, have to take a look at how for exactly worked again in
go:)
07:52 < vegai> elimisteve: my files are several gigabytes in size..
07:52 < str1ngs> vegai: also check out
http://golang.org/pkg/bytes/#Buffer.ReadBytes
07:53 < str1ngs> vegai: which is faster then ReadLine iirc and iirc ReadLine
is going to be depricated
07:53 < vegai> oh, ok.  I will
07:54 < str1ngs> sorry that might now help
07:54 < str1ngs> that would require you to read into memory
07:55 < vegai> right..
08:00 < str1ngs> vegai: found it finally
http://golang.org/pkg/bufio/#Reader.ReadBytes
08:00 < str1ngs> I think that would be much better for this
08:01 < str1ngs> there is also a ReadLine helper method but you probably
dont need it
08:03 < str1ngs> vegai: just need to filter out os.EOF errors with this
method
08:04 < str1ngs> ie if err != nil && err != os.EOF
08:04 < vegai> right
08:04 < str1ngs> then break on os.EOF
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08:05 < str1ngs> actually proably better to break on os.EOF and then err
check.  I've since changed to doing that way.
08:07 < str1ngs> vegai: my guess is you are somewhat use to while loops?
08:09 < vegai> I'm actually more used to lazy reading like is usually done
in python and haskell
08:09 < str1ngs> ah ya
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08:10 < str1ngs> I find working with byts and readers really nice in go.
takes abit to get use to
08:10 < str1ngs> bytes*
08:10 < vegai> this seems a bit lowlevel, especially when compared to python
08:10 < vegai> but possibly better than Haskell and certainly better than C
08:10 < str1ngs> it makes low level easy imo.
08:10 < vegai> yes
08:11 < str1ngs> for example you can daisy chain reader together which is so
powerful
08:11 < str1ngs> ie decompress read and write all at once
08:13 < str1ngs> vegai: some of the api is still raw and is being improved.
example exec.Run is being reworked
08:13 < str1ngs> so you will see more lazy style api.  thats the only
example I can think off of hand.
08:13 < vegai> ok
08:14 < str1ngs> basically less boiler plate.
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13:27 < xyproto> If you could change just one little part of the syntax in
Go, what would it be?
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13:29 < dlowe> use new() for channels, slices, and maps
13:30 < str1ngs> that would conflict with new objects
13:31 < dlowe> I know new() and make() do different things to the language
implementor, but to the language user, its an arbitrary and pointless distinction
13:32 < str1ngs> yes, however go is designed to have minimal compile time
overhead.  so it might have been easier to use make vs new
13:32 < ww> new == malloc, more or less
13:32 < dlowe> ww: I know the difference already
13:33 < ww> make is more complicated because it does initialisation...
13:33 < ww> dlowe: ok...
13:33 < dlowe> ww: that's something the language implementor wants to care
about
13:33 < ww> well..  if we had constructors in some way supported by the
language then i could see merging them...
13:33 < Omnivore> new is an allocator, make is a constructor...  allocate
and construct would've been clearer
13:34 < str1ngs> I like Omnivore suggestion
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13:35 < dlowe> When I use a language, I want to express my _intent_.  My
intent is to get some new object.  I don't care about whether or not the object is
allocated, where it's allocated, what's involved in the allocation process or
whether there's initialization involved
13:35 < dlowe> anyway, it's not a huge wart.
13:35 < Omnivore> and new is shorter to type ;)
13:35 < ww> dlowe: ok, so for that to be consistent, we need constructorsr
for user-defined types
13:36 < dlowe> ww: uh, why?
13:36 < dlowe> ww: we don't have them now
13:36 < ww> because if i make a struct MyThing that requires initialisation,
and you don't care about that and just want to use new()...
13:37 < ww> new() has to know what to do to initialise it
13:37 < dlowe> ww: make() only knows about language internal structures
13:37 < ww> (fwiw, i almost never use new)
13:37 < dlowe> ww: so it's neither more nor less consistent
13:38 < ww> dlowe: right, but new can be used on user-defined types, make
cannot
13:39 < xyproto> Omnivore: I like your suggestion too.
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14:41 < TheCritic> Question regarding this code:
http://pastebin.com/UkHVTHUq
14:41 < TheCritic> how would the IF line be read in english when speaking it
to a developer friend?
14:41 < TheCritic> minus the unicode part, I get that.
14:42 < str1ngs> TheCritic: there is no if line here do you mean for line?
14:43 < TheCritic> on a related note, are you familiar with a tutorial that
explains how to read go....  that may be even more helpful
14:43 < TheCritic> yes, the for line
14:43 < TheCritic> sorry
14:43 < TheCritic> str1ngs: thanks for asking, sorry for the error
14:43 < str1ngs> TheCritic: the toturial page and the effective go page
14:43 < str1ngs> the for line reads in english
14:44 < str1ngs> for each key value of string print character and position
14:44 < TheCritic> cool
14:44 < TheCritic> this si from the effective go page
14:44 < TheCritic> I am reading it now,and it helps to learn how to read the
code...
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14:45 < TheCritic> so range returns 2 values
14:45 < str1ngs> yes
14:45 < str1ngs> some functions can return more then two
14:45 < TheCritic> and has some iterating magic built in
14:45 < str1ngs> the are seperated by commas
14:46 < str1ngs> range is the magic yes
14:46 < str1ngs> I'll assume you are translating for a techincal user?
14:46 < TheCritic> no, reading for understanding.  I am a new go developer
(maybe, if I don't give up)
14:47 < TheCritic> I have a personal project I am trying in go
14:47 < str1ngs> ah ok my bad I misunderstood
14:47 < TheCritic> learn by doing
14:47 < str1ngs> just ask any questions
14:47 < TheCritic> thanks
14:47 < TheCritic> You gave me what I need, very helpful...  I'm back to
reading now, thanks very much
14:47 < TheCritic> str1ngs++
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14:51 < TheCritic> the for statement is more complex than I am used to.
14:54 < str1ngs> you will get use to it.
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15:00 < TheCritic> probably...  I like a lot about go already...
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15:26 < Baughn> I'm trying to pass an array of values-that-can-be-printed to
a function, which should then print each value.  Taking my cue from fmt.Sprint, I
made 'func logArray(arr []interface{})' (which seems awfully unspecific), but
while Go seems happy enough about the function it refuses to let me pass a
[]uint64 array to it.  What should I do?
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15:33 < exch> Baughn: you can't implicitely convert []uint64 to
[]interface{}.  Those are distinctly different types.  You can change
[]interface{} to just interface{}.  Then do a type switch on 'arr' to see what
value it actually contains
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15:34 < exch> You can also define your own []uint64 type and give it a
String() method which will be called by Printf and friends when the %v or %s
options are specified
15:35 < exch> type MySlice []uint64; func (a MySlice) String() string { /*
do manual string building here*/ }
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15:52 < xyproto> How can I combine two slices, l1 [64]int and l2 [64] int ?
15:52 < xyproto> With append?
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15:53 < xyproto> I wish to take the first 32 elements from l1 and the 32
last elements from l2 and then put them into one slice/array/list
15:55 < xyproto> ok, nvm, seems like copy() is what I'm looking for
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16:04 < mpl> xyproto: and I think with append ...  you could do that too.
16:05 < xyproto> mpl: yes, you're right.  My problem was that I forgot the
...  syntax.  All good now.  Thx :)
16:06 < mpl> np
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16:42 < exch> meh.  Go's http.ServeFile fails when it's supplied a gzipped
response stream and the file to write is exactly less than 255 bytes.  but only on
specific files.  Sometimes it sends only partial content, other times it refuses
outright and closes the connection.  I'm trying to pin down exactly where things
go wrong, but it's hard when a file yields on result when its in the server root,
and a completely different result when it's in a subdirectory
16:43 < exch> For the record, it uses this approach to supply the gzipped
writer: http://nf.id.au/roll-your-own-gzip-encoded-http-handler
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18:09 < exch> yay, figured it out.  http.ServeFile fails with gzip streams
because it sets the Content-Length header to the size of the uncompressed file
18:09 < exch> browser thinks it got partial data and consequently asks the
server for more
18:09 < exch> which doesnt exist
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18:48 < exch> http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=1905 that took
some doing to figure out ><
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20:00 < skelterjohn|work> anyone here use go+mingw?  they gave me a windows
machine for my summer internship and i'm trying to make due
20:00 < exch> poor man
20:00 < skelterjohn|work> i've got everything to work but goinstall
20:00 < skelterjohn|work> it's complaining that it can't find gomake in
$PATH
20:00 < skelterjohn|work> but...  running gomake from the mingw command line
works fine
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20:19 < skelterjohn|work> d/c'd by accident, in case anyone had a suggestion
for my mingw/goinstall issue
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20:21 < prudhvi> Are there any performance differences between running
http.ServeHttp and using http/fcgi.Serve ?
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20:22 < skelterjohn|work> prudhvi: cgi servers are all about running command
line programs, aren't they?
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20:22 < skelterjohn|work> http will serve arbitrary data as defined by your
handler functions
20:22 < skelterjohn|work> looking at the godoc, i'm not really sure what the
fcgi package does (i am not a web dev though)
20:23 < prudhvi> Yes, i mean number of connections handled per second.
20:23 < prudhvi> from fcgi.Serve the docs say that a new service thread is
created for each.
20:24 < skelterjohn|work> that is also true for http.Serve
20:24 < prudhvi> is that a thread as opposed to a goroutine?
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20:24 < skelterjohn|work> it's referring to goroutines, i'm pretty sure
20:24 < skelterjohn|work> but i'm not looking at the source
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20:25 < skelterjohn|work> there is no way, in pure go, to explicitly create
a thread.  you can create a new process using os.StartProcess or exec.Run, but
that serves a different purpose
20:25 < prudhvi> okay, it looks like they are goroutines.
20:26 < prudhvi> i was confused for a bit.
20:26 < skelterjohn|work> there is a bit of divergence of vocabulary
20:26 < skelterjohn|work> but in almost every case, in the context of go
code, thread means goroutine
20:27 < prudhvi> correct.
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20:27 < KirkMcDonald> Unless you're talking about GOMAXPROCS.
20:28 < skelterjohn|work> right - good exception catch
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20:36 < TheCritic> Help me parse this:
20:36 < TheCritic> func (file *File) Write(b []byte) (n int, err Error)
20:36 < TheCritic> it is a function
20:36 < TheCritic> Write is the name
20:36 < uriel>
20:37 < TheCritic> it takes b []byte as a parameter
20:37 < skelterjohn|work> so far so good
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20:37 < TheCritic> it returns n int, and err Error
20:37 < skelterjohn|work> yep
20:37 < Namegduf> And file *File is a reciever
20:37 < TheCritic> what is file *File for?
20:37 < Namegduf> (Making it a method)
20:37 < skelterjohn|work> if you have a thing of type *File
20:37 < skelterjohn|work> var f *File
20:37 < skelterjohn|work> you can call f.Write(aByteSlice)
20:37 < Namegduf> It's a receiver, a thing that the function is to be a
method on.
20:38 < TheCritic> ah
20:38 < Namegduf> You can use it like a parameter
20:38 < Namegduf> i.e.  "file" is a variable scoped to the function when it
is called
20:38 < TheCritic> I am suprised it is not denoted using xxx.File
20:39 < TheCritic> isnt it important where the .File comes from?
20:39 < skelterjohn|work> i'm note sure why that is a desirable syntax
20:39 < TheCritic> like, which library?
20:39 < skelterjohn|work> do you mean "func File.Write(b []byte)
<etc>"?
20:39 < TheCritic> ok, so in this: func (file *File) Write(b []byte) (n int,
err Error)
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20:39 < skelterjohn|work> TheCritic: it is only a method on things of type
whatever.File, where whatever is the package in which this method is defined
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20:39 < Namegduf> TheCritic: It is ALWAYS the current one.
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20:40 < Namegduf> You can't define methods on types which aren't defined in
the current package.
20:40 < skelterjohn|work> if you have package x and y, x.File and y.File are
completely different types
20:40 < skelterjohn|work> that too.
20:40 < TheCritic> I am reading this:
http://golang.org/doc/effective_go.html#functions
20:40 < TheCritic> one sec, work requires me...  (sux)
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20:43 < TheCritic> ah, File.Write is the object, and Write is the method...
20:43 < TheCritic> excuse me
20:44 < TheCritic> os.File is the object
20:44 < skelterjohn|work> os.File is the type of the object
20:44 < TheCritic> Write is the method
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20:44 < Namegduf> No object.
20:44 < Namegduf> os.File is the type
20:45 < Namegduf> Write is a method on it
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20:45 < Namegduf> "objects" are usually instances of types or some subset of
types
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20:45 < Namegduf> os.File is a type, not an instance of a type.
20:45 < TheCritic> I the signature of *File.Write in package os would have
been func (file *os.File) Write(b []byte) (n int, err Error)
20:45 < TheCritic> I would have thought the signature of *File.Write in
package os would have been func (file *os.File) Write(b []byte) (n int, err Error)
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20:46 < skelterjohn|work> you don't need to name the package when you're in
the package
20:46 < TheCritic> ah
20:46 < skelterjohn|work> while in the os package, you always refer to the
type as File, not os.File
20:46 < TheCritic> makes sense
20:46 < skelterjohn|work> you could, in fact, import another package with
the name os
20:46 < skelterjohn|work> and use its file
20:46 < Namegduf> TheCritic: Same way it's Error, not os.Error
20:47 < Namegduf> For the return value.
20:47 < Namegduf> Method receivers aren't special, they're basically just a
single, separate parameter
20:47 < Namegduf> In terms of the behaviour of writing the function.
20:48 < TheCritic> I think I am on the cusp of understanding...
20:48 < TheCritic> one more question...
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20:54 < TheCritic> my pet project is to do a directory sync tool in go....
20:55 < TheCritic> so here is my code snipit so far
20:55 < TheCritic> http://pastebin.com/Jm0tkuk5
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20:55 < TheCritic> It works because I have ripped a piece from someone elses
github...  but there is a piece I dont understand...
20:56 < TheCritic> filepath.Walk(path, v, v)
20:56 < TheCritic> it seems to call VistFile and VisitDir correctly
20:56 < TheCritic> but I don't know why
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20:56 < skelterjohn|work> um
20:56 < skelterjohn|work> why wouldn't it do that?
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20:57 < skelterjohn|work> filepath's 2nd parameter is an interface that
specifies the VisitDir and VisitFile methods
20:57 < skelterjohn|work> if you look at the code for filepath.Walk, it
calls those functions when appropriate
20:57 < TheCritic> ah
20:58 < skelterjohn|work> is the confusion related to interfaces in general?
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20:58 < TheCritic> so whatever object I pass to Walk, it must have a
VisitFile and VisitDir methods
20:58 < skelterjohn|work> that's right
20:58 < skelterjohn|work> or else it won't compile
20:59 < TheCritic> I went here to look at the docs on Walk
http://golang.org/pkg/path/filepath/
20:59 < TheCritic> and it did not mention the methods required
21:00 < skelterjohn|work> that's a good place to go
21:00 < skelterjohn|work> it does implicitly
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21:00 < skelterjohn|work> if you check the type of the 2nd parameter, it's
an interface type
21:00 < skelterjohn|work> in the same page you should see the definition of
that interface
21:00 < TheCritic> wow
21:00 < TheCritic> ok, it does
21:01 < TheCritic> when I ready it the first time, I didnt understand it...
it is funny how the mind just skips things it does not understand...
21:01 < TheCritic> thanks
21:01 < ww> quick strawpoll: kludge path/filepath tests with if
strings.HasPrefix(os.Cwd(), "/afs/") { return } ?
21:01 < TheCritic> that is all for now, I will keep reading....
21:01 < skelterjohn|work> ww: ew
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21:02 < skelterjohn|work> ww: what is it about afs that messes everything
up?
21:02 < ww> it has its own acl system and basically ignores the unix one
21:02 < skelterjohn|work> what's an acl system
21:02 < ww> for some things, like x on directories
21:02 < ww> skelterjohn|work: permissions
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21:03 < ww> because access is mediated by things-related-to-kerberos-tokens
and not user/group id
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21:05 < ww> otherwise you'd be able to take your own machine, connect to an
afs cell and mess with other people's files as root
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21:06 < skelterjohn|work> is that a problem?
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21:06 < ww> yes, afs is global, distribued thing
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21:07 < skelterjohn|work> (jk)
21:07 < ww> :)
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21:08 < ww> i don't really see a way to fix it other than disabling the
tests or teaching go a lot more about afs than is reasonable
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21:09 < skelterjohn|work> is the failed test causing that much of an issue?
21:09 < ww> not really, it just means that ./all.bash blows up
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21:10 < ww> after it has finished building and installing everything, so it
still works...
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21:10 < skelterjohn|work> you can also use make.bash instead
21:10 < skelterjohn|work> to skip the tests altogether
21:10 < skelterjohn|work> takes only a minute to build instead of 5 (for me)
21:10 < ww> yes, i often do that
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22:20 < uriel>
22:20 < uriel> dr
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22:31 < mogoh> what is here the problem?
22:31 < mogoh> mogoh@leonhard-desktop:~/daten/sourcecode$ goinstall
github.com/banthar/Go-SDL
22:31 < mogoh> goinstall: github.com/banthar/Go-SDL: package has no files
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22:56 < mogoh> well adios
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23:24 < superjoe> does go support creating arbitrary data structures, for
example a list of dicts?
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23:25 < superjoe> actually I'm simply trying to create a 3d array and can't
get past the syntax
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23:26 < elimisteve> superjoe: dicts, as in hash maps (which Python calls
dictionaries)?
23:26 < superjoe> elimisteve, yes
23:26 < elimisteve> this should work: type MapList []map[string]string
23:26 < elimisteve> that user-defined type is a slice of maps from strings
to strings
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23:27 < superjoe> my question is, can I instantiate this data type?  could I
return an anonymous data structure like this from a function?
23:27 < elimisteve> a "slice" is basically growable array
23:28 < elimisteve> 1 sec
23:29 < superjoe> hmm let my try to rephrase my question.  how would this
python snippet look in go?  http://paste.pocoo.org/show/399178/
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23:34 < |Craig|> superjoe: create the map with make, then add your slices to
it
23:34 < elimisteve> superjoe: http://pastebin.com/XYmri7N2
23:34 < superjoe> that's a lot of boiler plate
23:34 < elimisteve> viewing your paste now...
23:35 < elimisteve> you said returned from a function so that's what I did
23:35 < superjoe> yeah this is very helpful, thank you
23:35 < |Craig|> the MapList type declaration is not needed, you could just
use []map[string]string everywhere
23:36 < superjoe> ok
23:37 < elimisteve> yeah I didn't know if you wanted them named
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23:37 < superjoe> this is a great example
23:38 < |Craig|> superjoe: your python code is closer to map[int][]String
(map from int to string slice)
23:38 < |Craig|> oh, map[String][]int
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23:43 < superjoe> so is this how I would do a 3d array of bools?
http://paste.pocoo.org/show/399180/
23:43 < superjoe> it's kind of annoying to type []bool [][]bool everywhwere
23:44 < |Craig|> superjoe: you may find this useful:
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Composite_literals
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23:45 < superjoe> thanks
23:45 < |Craig|> and remember, you can make custom types to do what you need
more cleanly, and add methods to them
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23:46 < |Craig|> you may want to just use a []bool, and put it in a struct
that stores the diminsions and has methods for messing with it
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23:49 < |Craig|> superjoe: here is a very crude and old 2D array of bools
implemented using the bits from uint64s
23:49 < |Craig|>
https://github.com/Craig-Macomber/goFlame/blob/master/bitTable.go
23:49 < superjoe> hmm
23:50 < elimisteve> superjoe: Python was my favorite language.  Go recently
became #1 :-)
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23:51 < superjoe> elimisteve, cool, what about the language did you like
more than python?
23:51 < |Craig|> Python was also my favorite, but now its pretty even with
Go
23:51 < |Craig|> Go is safe, and fast
23:51 < |Craig|> and concurrent
23:52 < elimisteve> superjoe: the concurrency primitives are brilliantly
simple
23:52 < elimisteve> no such thing in Python, not even close
23:52 < superjoe> when you say go is "safe," what exactly do you mean?
23:52 < |Craig|> python is not type safe (and both are memory safe)
23:52 < |Craig|> not statically anyway
23:53 < superjoe> |Craig|, you're saying because anyone can monkey patch the
main libraries?
23:53 < superjoe> someone can set None to True or something like that?  is
that what you're saying is not safe?
23:53 < elimisteve> statically typed languages are faster, but they've
always been so cumbersome.  Go uses type inference all over the place so you don't
have do any Java-style Object o = new Object(); crap
23:53 < elimisteve> more like o := Object()
23:54 < superjoe> I agree type inference is nice
23:54 < superjoe> fast compilation is pleasant as well
23:54 < |Craig|> I make silly type errors in python all the time, or people
pass the wrong things, and in go, that cant happen.  Also, making typos and
creating new variables instead of resigning them won't happen with go either.
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23:55 < superjoe> I see
23:56 < |Craig|> I also find code I've written in go tends to be more
legible, but I think thats partially because in python my style is pretty bad.
Alwayse knowing the types from the source does save a lot of commenting though
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23:57 < superjoe> I agree, sometimes I feel handicapped in python not
knowing the type, and it's not always easy to inspect at runtime
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23:58 < superjoe> I think that the compiler should have been able to use
type inference on that last paste I did though
23:58 < superjoe> I shouldn't have to use bool[][] and bool[]
23:59 < superjoe> I've already declared it [][][]bool which tells it what
the data structure is going to be
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--- Log closed Thu Jun 02 00:00:52 2011