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03:09 < manveru> how can i access a "" key in a map[string]string ?
03:10 < manveru> i get `invalid operation: value[""]`
03:11 < manveru> oh, nm :)
03:12 < dfc> manveru: you can't use the zero value as a key
03:12 < manveru> that wasn't a map...
03:12 < manveru> dfc: apparently i can
03:12 < dfc> NFW
03:12 < manveru> well, for strings anyway
03:13 < dfc> try
03:13 < dfc> var v string
03:13 < manveru> v := ""
03:13 < manveru> that's my way
03:13 < dfc> q := theMap[v]
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03:17 < manveru> it works :)
03:18 < manveru> dfc: https://ideone.com/6wXcx
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03:20 < manveru> i get the map from parsing json, which uses an empty key,
so i'm really glad it works too
03:21 < dfc> wow
03:21 < dfc> i did not know that
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03:31 < manveru> DNS...  it seemed like a good idea at the time :P
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03:43 < Ekspluati> Oh god, I haven't written a single line of Go code during
last week.
03:44 * dfc offers Ekspluati a consoling pat on the shoulder
03:45 < nsf> I can't remember when I wrote the last line of Go code
03:46 < manveru> heh
03:46 < manveru> meh, i wish go had binary number notation
03:47 < dfc> adg, good to see you committing arm fixes
03:47 <@adg> :)
03:47 < dfc> ditto
03:47 <@adg> this was a 3-way effort from me, rob, and russ
03:47 < dfc> atomics on arm is/was a bloody nightmare
03:48 <@adg> russ deserves most of the credit, although he broke it in the
first place, so
03:48 < dfc> is your panda board dual core ?
03:48 <@adg> yep
03:48 < dfc> ahh, that'd explain why it shows up for you
03:48 <@adg> you should get one, $174
03:48 < dfc> i'm thinking about it
03:48 < dfc> did you get someone to mule it for you from the states ?
03:48 <@adg> i'm going to get one for home to use as an htpc
03:49 <@adg> we did a group order here at google sydney
03:49 <@adg> if you wanna order one let me know and i'll get in on it
03:49 < dfc> let me consult the chancelor of the exchequor
03:50 < dfc> awww snap
03:50 < dfc> the arm5 build just failed again
03:50 < dfc> i simply can't run 5g on that host anymore
03:50 < dfc> well, not with the overhead of gobuilder
03:51 < manveru> no way to get an uint4, is there
03:51 <@adg> dfc: :(
03:51 <@adg> manveru: nope
03:52 < dfc> adg: the oom killer just stomps on teh build
03:52 < dfc> exp/eval is the culprit
03:52 < dfc> for some reason compiling that package uses close to 140mb of
ram
03:54 <@adg> compiling or testing?
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03:54 < dfc> compiling
03:54 < dfc> it's bizarro
03:54 < dfc> test/check64.go is a know issue
03:54 < dfc> that is over a mb of source
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03:54 <@adg> very weird
03:54 < dfc> but exp/eval is nowhere near the largest packge
03:54 < dfc> compared to net
03:54 <@adg> oh well, thanks for the service while it lasted :)
03:54 < dfc> for example
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03:56 < dfc> make: Leaving directory `/home/dfc/go/src/pkg/exp/eval'
03:56 < dfc> 5.16user 0.70system 0:08.69elapsed 67%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata
419344maxresident)k
03:56 < dfc> 0inputs+0outputs (239major+36030minor)pagefaults 0swaps
03:56 < dfc> that is make install in exp/eval
03:56 < dfc> o_O!
04:06 <@adg> wow
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04:25 < dfc> adg: re the weekly
04:25 < dfc> don't forget Howard Fan's work on improving SQRT on arm7
04:27 < dfc>
http://code.google.com/p/go/source/detail?r=002945af78ccbfa51b7fe6eebe883ab9663c9f3a
04:29 < kuroneko> go on arm?  hmm.  :)
04:29 < kuroneko> maybe one of these days I'll get brave enough to actually
understand kencc well enough to do that itanic port I want to do.
04:30 * kuroneko is currently trying to work out signal handling.
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04:35 < kuroneko> has anybody been doing any significant work on signal
handling (in particular, selective handling) in the runtime?
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04:45 < cenuij> kuroneko: signal.UnixSignal?
04:45 < kuroneko> no - receiving
04:46 < kuroneko> sorry - that actually may be it
04:46 <@adg> dfc: yeah i did
04:46 < cenuij> oh, right, I had to update instances of signal.UnixSignal to
os.UnixSignal earlier today
04:46 < kuroneko> my head is currently full of the guts because I'm trying
to understand how to achieve the equivilent of SIGIGN/SIGDFL
04:46 < kuroneko> and unless I'm horribly out of date, the only mechanism
gives you all trappable signals
04:47 < kuroneko> on a channel.
04:47 < kuroneko> which means I need to understand how the default behaviour
for any given signal is invoked
04:47 < kuroneko> etc
04:50 < dfc> adg: thanks, i see it now
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05:12 < kevlar> kuroneko: I have code that handles SIGQUIT (^/), SIGINT
(^C), SIGTSTP (^Z) and SIGHUP if you want a link
05:13 < kuroneko> I think I have it worked out now actually :)
05:14 < kuroneko> yeah, I do
05:14 < kuroneko> it was more I needed to establish what the correct default
behaviours should be - I'm used to being able to simply only hook the signals I
care about
05:14 < kuroneko> and leave the rest to be picked up by the default handlers
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05:28 < kevlar> I'm too lazy to test this: am I allowed to copy(a[n+1:m+1],
a[n:m])?
05:29 < kevlar> it says they may overlap...
05:29 < elimisteve> are you sure that n <= m?
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05:31 < KirkMcDonald> kevlar: I would expect that to be allowed.
05:31 < kevlar> yeah.  Though it turns out it's even easier than that.
05:32 < kevlar> to insert and let the last element fall off the end:
copy(arr[idx+1:],arr[idx:]); arr[idx] = val
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05:53 < manveru> damn, i always forget that go has goto
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06:19 < meatmanek> dforsyth: I'm sure it's possible; we've got about 10
other languages in there
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07:03 < hallas> Is there anyway I can update Go to a specific version?
07:03 < hallas> Im quite unfamiliar with hg
07:05 < dfc> hallas: yup
07:05 < dfc> hg pull
07:05 < dfc> then
07:05 < dfc> hg update -r REV
07:05 < dfc> where REV is
07:05 < dfc> weekly
07:05 < dfc> release
07:05 < dfc> or any sha1 hash from
07:05 < dfc> http://code.google.com/p/go/source/list
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07:44 < GeertJohan> goodmorning :)
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07:51 < str1ngs> hello
07:56 < elimisteve> good night :-)
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08:01 < GeertJohan> I just showed Go to one of my colleagues (is that
spelled right?)..  Anyway..  He agrees that Go is awesome :D
08:01 < GeertJohan> I'm thinking of publishing a series of tutorial video's
(argumented screencaps) on Dojo with Go..
08:01 < GeertJohan> Dojo is a javascript framework
08:03 < GeertJohan> But I dont know if now is the time to do that since Go
is still under so much development..
08:03 < GeertJohan> any thoughts/comments?
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08:16 < str1ngs> its still pretty stable
08:17 < str1ngs> I would do it know, good excuse to have fun with go :P
08:17 < str1ngs> now*
08:19 < GeertJohan> hehe :p
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10:40 < wrtp> darn, GOPATH doesn't work properly yet!
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10:57 < krolaw> Quick question: are ++ and += operations thread safe?  I.E.
if multiple threads are incrementing the same variable is the ++ operation safe,
or will some increments be lost?
10:57 < wrtp> krolaw: they're not
10:57 < wrtp> see The Go Memory Model
10:58 < wrtp> threads can run in parallel
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10:58 < wrtp> you can use sync.Mutex or channel operations to make things
thread safe
10:59 < krolaw> Having a look.  Yeah threads do.  I'm thinking that a=a+1
might differ from a++ (no read required?).
10:59 < krolaw> Channel operations can be really slow on multiple processors
atm.
10:59 < nsf> krolaw: probably they are not atomic (if that's what you mean)
11:00 < nsf> krolaw: most lockfree algorithms (including various kinds of
thread-safe reference counting schemes) use CAS operation
11:00 < nsf> it's atomic
11:00 < nsf> (CAS measn compare-and-swap)
11:00 < nsf> means*
11:00 < nsf> and of course it's slower than usual increment
11:01 < nsf> the problem lies down deep in the processor architecture
11:01 < nsf> with all these caches
11:01 < krolaw> Ah, so a thread may have it's own cache of a given
variable...
11:01 < nsf> not a thread
11:01 < nsf> thread is an OS entity
11:02 < nsf> but processor can
11:02 < nsf> a core in multicore CPU
11:02 < krolaw> Ok, so each CPU may have it's own cache registers.
11:02 < nsf> registers and two/three level cache
11:03 < krolaw> So I see even an a ++ would get slaughtered.
11:03 < nsf> but the memory model says all processors have uniform access to
all of the memory
11:03 < nsf> yeah
11:03 < nsf> there have to be a special hardware instruction for that
11:03 < nsf> and there is
11:03 < nsf> called CAS
11:03 < nsf> I think most mutex implementations use CAS as well
11:04 < nsf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compare-and-swap
11:04 < krolaw> I'm not yet familiar with mutex....
11:04 < nsf> just read the wikipedia
11:04 < nsf> it will tell more :)
11:04 < krolaw> :-)
11:04 < wrtp> A thread can have its own cache of a given variable actually -
the compiler's free to store a value in a register for a while.
11:04 < krolaw> Thanks.
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11:05 < nsf> threads do not have anything, CPUs have
11:05 < wrtp> even across function calls (assuming the function calls don't
use channels or sync)
11:05 < wrtp> nsf: sure, but there can be two versions of a value, one in a
register and one in main memory
11:05 < nsf> yes
11:05 < nsf> but register belongs to CPU :)
11:06 < nsf> threads are OS entities
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11:06 < nsf> software
11:06 < wrtp> yeah, but other threads look at main memory
11:06 < nsf> yep
11:06 < nsf> but I guess we should refer to context switching here
11:06 < nsf> if they are on the same CPU
11:06 < nsf> maybe there is no such problem
11:06 < wrtp> there can be
11:06 < nsf> but across different CPUs the problem is horrible
11:07 < nsf> wrtp: I'm still not sure about single CPU
11:07 < nsf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_switch
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11:07 < nsf> context switching saves all the registers etc.
11:07 < nsf> hm..
11:07 < nsf> but ok
11:08 < nsf> maybe it's possible I don't know
11:08 < nsf> ah well, yes
11:08 < nsf> registers are being saved
11:08 < nsf> but the values may not be committed to the memory
11:08 < nsf> I guess
11:08 < wrtp> nsf: even on a single CPU the compiler is free not to store
back values from registers to main memory if there's no synchronisation
11:08 < wrtp> yeah
11:09 < nsf> I see
11:09 < wrtp> it means that the compiler can optimise: for i := 0; i < N;
i++ {foo.X += bar()}
11:09 < wrtp> if foo is a pointer
11:10 < wrtp> it could store X in a register
11:10 < wrtp> (assuming it knows that foo can't be accessed by bar)
11:10 < wrtp> (and that bar doesn't synchronise)
11:11 < nsf> :)
11:12 < wrtp> it's not just idle fancy - this sort of optimisation is the
kind of thing that could make go code really fast with cleverer compilers.
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11:12 < nsf> yeah, sure
11:12 < nsf> D for example goes even further
11:12 < nsf> it uses different memory model
11:12 < nsf> where everything is thread local unless explicitly shared
11:12 < nsf> and therefore applying such optimizations is safe
11:13 < nsf> in D
11:13 < wrtp> if you share a pointer, does it automatically share everything
it points to?
11:13 < nsf> I have no idea :)
11:13 < nsf> but I guess, yes
11:13 < nsf> you simply can't have a shared pointer that points to
non-shared data
11:13 < wrtp> or maybe it's a type annotation rather than a runtime thing
11:14 < nsf> that's my guess though
11:14 < nsf> I don't know D much, just few bits from different talks and
presentations
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11:24 < krolaw> Ok, I see why channels are so cool, they make all the
complex sync stuff disappear.  It's just unfortunate that it makes execution speed
lousy (http://golang.org/doc/go_faq.html#Why_GOMAXPROCS), which is usually the
purpose of writing multithreaded code...
11:24 < nsf> krolaw: it depends
11:25 < nsf> it's very hard to microoptimize threading
11:25 < nsf> you should parallelize big things
11:25 < nsf> the very good example of that is a typical (make, scons, waf,
etc.) build system
11:25 < nsf> for example waf written in python, and python has this GIL
11:26 < nsf> but still, threading gives a very big advantage
11:26 < nsf> the same tactics should be applied to Go
11:26 < nsf> I see Go as a high level language
11:26 < krolaw> You would :-p
11:26 < nsf> for doing all sorts of data processing clusters
11:27 < aiju> >which is usually the purpose of writing multithreaded code
11:27 < aiju> using multiple threads of execution can nicely simplify a lot
of things
11:27 < aiju> see pikes papers on concurrent window managers
11:27 < krolaw> Well, I'm still hopeful and improved scheduler will solve
these sorts of issues in future.
11:27 < nsf> oh man
11:27 < nsf> I have bad experience dealing with X11 concurrency
11:28 < nsf> I know X11 crap and all that
11:28 < nsf> but still
11:28 < nsf> it doesn't simplify anything imho
11:28 < aiju> X11 is about the worst example possible in that context
11:28 < nsf> ok
11:28 < nsf> all we got
11:29 < nsf> at least massively adopted I mean
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11:41 < krolaw> Ok, thanks.  Does someone know how to catch kills sent to a
running go app?  I'm currently playing with web.go and I want to keep an sqlite
connection open, but want it closed properly if the app is killed.  I could have a
listening socket to receive commands, but kill seems more unix...
11:42 < Tonnerre> You can't do anything against a SIGKILL
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11:44 < krolaw> Ok, I don't know much about kill, but kill alone sends a
different signal form kill -9 (which definitely kills the app), and other messages
can be sent using kill..
11:44 < nsf> krolaw: catch SIGTERM
11:44 < nsf> kill -9 cannot be catched and/or ignored
11:44 < nsf> but the default signal for kill command is SIGTERM afaik
11:44 < krolaw> That's sounds right.  Happy to catch SIGTERM.
11:44 < nsf> use os/signal
11:45 < nsf> https://github.com/nsf/gocode/blob/master/os_posix.go
11:45 < nsf> see here IsTerminationSignal
11:45 < nsf> that's how I check for termination signal
11:45 < nsf> SIGINT (Ctrl-C in terminal usually) and SIGTERM are most
important ones
11:46 < nsf> https://github.com/nsf/gocode/blob/master/server.go
11:46 < nsf> and here at the bottom the main loop
11:46 < nsf> which catches the signal
11:50 < TheCritic> nsf I am just now watching
http://nsf.110mb.com/gocode-demo.swf
11:50 < TheCritic> very very cool
11:50 < krolaw> Whoa, thanks.
11:50 < nsf> TheCritic: ;)
11:51 < nsf> I hope it works with today's weekly
11:51 < nsf> I haven't checked
11:51 < nsf> will check tomorrow I hope
11:51 < TheCritic> nsf I assume people are integrating it with their editor
of choice...  do you keep a list of known integrations?
11:52 < nsf> I don't keep it
11:52 < nsf> vim, emacs, goclipse, gedit
11:52 < nsf> that's the ones I remember
11:52 < aiju> i integrate languages into my editor by opening the files
11:52 < aiju> and then edit them
11:53 < nsf> but since goclipse acutally shows comments for autocompletion
functions now
11:53 < nsf> I'm not even sure they still use gocode
11:53 < nsf> because gocode can't do that :)
11:54 < TheCritic> :)
11:54 < nsf> Content Assist via Gocode (https://github.com/nsf/gocode or
prebuilt for 64bit OSX, Windows)
11:54 < nsf> gocode has been verified to work with goclipse as of May 10th,
2011 with the latest version of Go and Eclipse 3.6 available at the time
11:54 < nsf> ah well
11:54 < nsf> then, they still use it
11:54 < TheCritic> nice
11:55 < aiju> eclipse made me lose my faith in humanity
11:55 < nsf> yeah, I agree
11:56 < nsf> it's a horrible IDE
11:56 < aiju> i don't see at all why people use it
11:56 < aiju> i can imagine why people use MSVS
11:56 < nsf> the only one that is worse is MS visual studio
11:56 < nsf> and I haven't seen xcode on mac
11:56 < aiju> MSVS is much better
11:56 < nsf> nooo
11:56 < nsf> it installs like an hour
11:56 < nsf> how could this be better?
11:56 < nsf> :)
11:56 < nsf> although
11:56 < nsf> the last one I saw
11:56 < nsf> was 2003 or something
11:56 < nsf> pretty old
11:57 < aiju> i've had to use eclipse for some java stuff
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12:00 < TheCritic> I use TextMate ...  and I just discovered that the go
bundle I use supports gocode :) time for me to dl/make/install
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12:20 < krolaw> Thanks nsf.  I found
12:21 < krolaw> <- signal.Incoming
12:21 < krolaw> Was enough to pause execution
12:21 < nsf> :)
12:26 < uriel> eclipse is a horrible everything
12:26 < uriel> TheCritic: http://go-lang.cat-v.org/text-editors/
12:27 < TheCritic> uriel: thanks!
12:31 < uriel> you are welcome
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13:22 < jnwhiteh> hrm.  I missed nsf.
13:22 < jnwhiteh> I have an issue, needed to ask him a question =)
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13:33 < skelterjohn> hah - a go/build package is introduced
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13:39 < skelterjohn> of course when i suggest such a thing i'm given 8
reasons why it's a waste of time
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15:43 < mpl> alright, since it's a slow IRC day, for those who haven't heard
yet, here's a fine addition to go: http://codereview.appspot.com/4557047
15:44 < ww> we're all playing with http://www.xefer.com/wikipedia
15:44 < skelterjohn> lol
15:44 < skelterjohn> to the bikeshed pkg
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15:48 < mpl> ww: I got a distance of 21 at my first try.  is that long?
what's the average?
15:49 < skelterjohn> what term did you use?
15:49 < mpl> brown dwarf
15:50 < mpl> (yes, I work in an astronomy institute, apologies ;) )
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15:53 < mdxi> i only got 17 on my first try (Ultimate Warrior)
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15:54 < crunge> I just got 22
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16:47 * d_m just got 29 on the first try (hero quest)
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16:58 < wrtp> anyone know what the longest is?
16:58 < wrtp> maybe there's one that never terminates...
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17:06 < mpl> wrtp: the author says he's hit endless loops
17:07 < mpl> hmm I got that wrong.
17:08 < mpl> he says there's a loop with "Telecommunication", but I don't
see why.
17:08 < mpl> at least it doesn't show in the graph.
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17:14 < ahf> hmm, i read somewhere that google app engine has recently got
support for 'backends', which basically allows you to run code for more than 30
seconds.  do you guys know if it's possible to write backends in go too?
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17:23 < wrtp> ahf: not yet i think
17:23 < ahf> damn
17:24 < ahf> it'd have been fun to play with this weekend
17:24 < wrtp> mpl: i read a bit more - if there's a loop, the code moves on
to the next link
17:24 < ahf> finally have a weekend off where i can just hack on pet
projects
17:24 < wrtp> ahf: i may be wrong
17:24 < ahf> wrtp: nah, i think you're right.  i have been unable to find
any information about it at least :-)
17:28 < kevlar_work> ahf, backends are not supported in Go yet, along with a
lot of the other newer features (concurrent requests, multithreading, pull queues,
channels, transactions)
17:28 < kevlar_work> but it is also brand new, and Java/Python have been
around for awhile, so I'm sure we can expect it to get a lot better.
17:29 < kevlar_work> (hopefully it can surpass python and java :D)
17:29 <+iant> people are working on all that stuff
17:29 <+iant> unfortunately I think it has to be people inside Google
17:30 <+iant> although I hear that AppScale has picked up Go support too,
now
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17:30 < kevlar_work> yep, appscale already has (I believe) both concurrent
requests and multithreading on Go.
17:31 < ahf> kevlar_work: okay, cool
17:31 < ahf> guess i'll hack on my ircd project instead this weekend then :D
17:31 < kevlar_work> ahf, you're working on one too?
17:31 < ahf> one thing i have noticed after i started toying around with go
in the evenings here at home, is my complete lack of C++ skills in the mornings at
work
17:32 < ahf> i get so many "missing ;" errors now at work
17:32 < ahf> kevlar_work: i do
17:32 < kevlar_work> I've seen three (four if you count both of mine)
17:32 < ahf> it's something everyone is working on?  :-P
17:32 < ahf> hah
17:32 < kevlar_work> so far none are more than one developer.
17:32 < kevlar_work> (which is a shame, as I think a Go ircd could be really
successful)
17:32 < ahf> actually, the reason why i started looking into Go was to toy
around with WebSockets.  was working on WS support in ircd-ratbox
17:33 < ahf> i get jilles to review my code :-P
17:33 < ahf> høhø
17:33 < kevlar_work> lol, nice
17:33 < ahf> him and i are both on the irssi team together
17:33 < kevlar_work> I haven't worked with jillies much, but I used to hang
around nenolod and worked on TS6 and shadow
17:33 < ahf> and his input is so freakin' valuable
17:33 < ahf> yup
17:33 < ahf> he's mr.  irc :-P
17:34 < kevlar_work> sometimes it surprises me how small the IRC world can
be.
17:34 < ahf> how far is your project?  i have an extremely racy client
implementation now that i need to get fixed and two large "missing" concepts is
usermodes and channelmodes
17:34 < ahf> then i'll start looking into TS6
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17:34 < ahf> even had a short talk with jilles about stuff that should be
fixed for TS6
17:34 < kevlar_work> I have basic channel support and basic TS6 server
(incoming) links
17:34 < ahf> oh, cool
17:34 < ahf> sounds like you are a bit ahead of me then
17:35 < kevlar_work> my first IRCd had a very complete local implementation
but hacking server support in was a pain because of my design so I scrapped it.
17:35 < ahf> aye
17:36 < ahf> i haven't spend much time thinking about the s2s side of mine
yet
17:36 < kevlar_work> this time I'm building from the ground up with server
linking support.
17:36 < ahf> the only thing i'd like to be able to do is to simulate entire
networks from the codebase easily
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17:38 < ahf> kevlar_work: btw, is your code public?
17:38 < ahf> mine's here: https://github.com/ahf/ircd-novo
17:39 < kevlar_work> ahf, http://github.com/kevlar/ircd-blight/ (from
memory)
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17:39 < kevlar_work> er, wrong
17:39 < kevlar_work> ahf, http://github.com/kylelemons/ircd-blight/ (from
memory)
17:39 < kevlar_work> lol
17:40 < ahf> gracias
17:40 < ahf> following you now 8)
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18:05 < exch> where have os/signal.UnixSignal and the signal constants gone?
18:05 < exch> the constants are in syscall, but UniSignal has disappeared
18:08 < exch> ah nvm.  its in os
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18:40 < rms^gnu> sup
18:40 < exch> lo
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20:33 < viking> it seems like Go uses the terms 'array' and 'slice'
interchangeably, even in package types (ex, sort.intArray is a int slice).  is
that right or am i missing something?  (i'm working my way through the tutorial)
20:33 < aiju> it's not entirely right
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20:35 < skelterjohn> should probably be renamed
20:35 < viking> i know slices are reference types to access underlying
arrays, but to me, sort.IntArray is confusing
20:35 < skelterjohn> arrays and slices are different
20:35 < skelterjohn> in what way is it confusing?
20:35 < viking> it's confusing because it's not an array, it's a slice
20:35 < skelterjohn> so what are the multiple things that can be true that
you can't rule out
20:36 < skelterjohn> it's a poor name, but it's not confusing
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20:36 < viking> skelterjohn: well, it's not confusing _now_ hehe
20:36 < viking> when i was trying to get my head around it, it was
20:36 < skelterjohn> :) sorry to chat and run, heading to the airport
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20:37 < viking> i just wanted to make sure i understood correctly
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20:41 < viking> i guess the right term is 'misleading' instead of
'confusing'
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21:20 < uriel> adg: maybe it would be nice if the README (or a new INSTALL
file) mentioned that one just has to cd into src and run all.bash
21:21 < uriel> people to cat the readme, just to be told to check some site,
where it just says to run a very simple command
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21:22 < uriel> (the README already mentions the setting of GOROOT)
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--- Log closed Sat Jun 11 00:00:03 2011