--- Log opened Sun Jun 26 00:00:54 2011
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01:19 < smw> Is it possible to set the number of threads a go program may
use at run time?
01:21 < Namegduf> GOMAXPROCS determines the number of active, executing
threads, not including those blocked on syscalls.
01:21 < smw> Namegduf, is that checked at runtime or compiletime?
01:21 < smw> the FAQ is not clear
01:21 < Namegduf> Runtime.
01:21 < smw> ok
01:23 < smw> Namegduf, ah.  I can set it at runtime!  runtime.GOMAXPROCS :-)
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03:09 < crazy2be> whew
03:09 < crazy2be> I have a lot of libraries
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10:45 < Lockal> Hi, does anybody know, where they take Size_t and Ssize_t
types in
http://gcc.gnu.org/git/?p=gcc.git;a=blob;f=libgo/syscalls/sysfile_posix.go ?
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10:50 < Lockal> in other words is there a way to use pseudo-type size_t and
int (32 or 64-bit) with gccgo?
10:51 < aiju> we have uintptr
10:51 < aiju> i have no clue what "size_t" in C is even supposed to be good
for
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10:54 < Lockal> "grep -c size_t /usr/include/string.h" > 44
10:55 < bartbes> isn't it an unsigned int by default?
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11:01 < Lockal> bartbes, no, those are different in 64-bit systems
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6023195/how-does-sizeof-work-for-int-types/6023329#6023329
11:02 < bartbes> I know that..
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15:02 < temoto> Hello.  Are there any known work in progress porting Go to
x86 (as opposed to Linux/x86)?
15:03 < str1ngs> temoto: what OS are you talking about windows?
15:03 < temoto> str1ngs, i mean bare machine, no OS
15:04 < str1ngs> there is a toy kernel written in go
15:04 < aiju> temoto: there has been a bare machine runtie
15:04 < aiju> it was abandoned because of "well it was fun but we have no
clue what this is supposed to be good for"
15:05 < aiju> i think it has been forked
15:05 < aiju> look for "go tiny"
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15:06 < aiju> is there any go 9p package?
15:06 < Fish> yes
15:06 < aiju> http://code.google.com/p/go9p/ ah there it went
15:07 < temoto> Thanks.
15:07 < temoto> found both
15:07 < aiju> "both"?
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15:08 < aiju> go 9p is broken
15:08 < temoto> aiju, yes, you mentioned tinygo and str1ngs mentioned i
guess this https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/golang-nuts/fS6Yg8o_cdQ
15:08 < aiju> temoto: i think he meant my toy OS :)
15:09 < aiju> gofy.cat-v.org
15:09 < aiju> didn't knew there was another one
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15:09 < temoto> Thanks.
15:09 < aiju> http://code.google.com/p/gofy/source/browse/ for the code
15:09 < aiju> but it probably doesn't compile
15:09 < aiju> i stopped working on it because every two days the code would
stop compiling
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15:11 < aiju> damnit
15:12 < aiju> is there any WORKING 9p implementation?
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15:20 < huin> i'm wondering why a method is calling for allocation before it
runs any lines of code
15:20 < aiju> huin: global variables?
15:21 < huin> func (updater *neighbourUpdater) flush() {
15:21 < huin> that's the line that the disasm shows as allocating 29MB in
total (it does get called many times)
15:21 < aiju> heh
15:21 < aiju> what's the method?
15:21 < huin> disassembling to show the line with allocation in question:
8100bec: call 80510a2 <_cgo_allocate-0x98419>
15:22 < aiju> uh cgo?
15:22 < huin> no idea about that cgo thing.  it only calls pure go code to
my knowledge
15:22 < aiju> so what's the method?
15:22 < huin> you mean the content of the method?
15:22 < aiju> yeah
15:23 < huin>
https://github.com/huin/chunkymonkey/blob/master/pkg/chunkymonkey/shardserver/side.go#L182
15:24 < huin> if it makes a difference, the receiver is embedded in a struct
member of type [4]neighbourUpdater
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15:25 < huin> i wonder if the closure has anything to do with it
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15:29 < huin> certainly commenting out lines 184-190 seem to have killed
that allocation
15:30 < aiju> these package names are really obnoxious
15:30 < aiju> somelong.url/isthis/java
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17:50 < zippoxer> problem with gb: typing gb -R prints an error:
http://www.pastie.org/2125457
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18:33 < crazy2be> you know that moment when you suddenly realize why
everything isn't working?
18:37 < TheMue> yep, just have the same with my jquery integration in my
appengine app (including a callback to retrieve json from the server)
18:40 < zozoR> when i am having a bad day, i read aiju's rant section and
feel better afterwards
18:40 < aiju> hahaha
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18:50 < zozoR> "Many vendors have started shipping their software with all
required libraries, which basically combines the disadvantages of static and of
dynamic linking."
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18:55 < TheMue> zozoR: *rofl*
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19:03 < skelterjohn> "zippoxer: problem with gb: typing gb -R prints an
error: http://www.pastie.org/2125457" i wish people would update to the latest
version before telling everyone about bugs
19:03 < skelterjohn> granted, i fixed that the day before yesterday...but
still
19:04 < crazy2be> zozoR: Dynamic linking usually means faster compiles
19:05 < crazy2be> if you are linking with big libraries
19:05 < aiju> crazy2be: dynamic linking usually means less cats
19:05 < zozoR> dude, we code go in here
19:05 < zozoR> wtf is compile time?
19:05 < crazy2be> lol
19:05 < zozoR> 130 KLOC takes about 10 seconds max
19:05 < crazy2be> not on my computer...
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19:06 < aiju> write FPGA code
19:06 < aiju> you will NEVER ever complain about compile time again ;P
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19:06 < aiju> compiling FPGA code takes a few minutes for 100 lines
19:06 < crazy2be> 31 seconds to clean and compile my web framework + all
modules
19:06 < zozoR> vdhl is the devils way of saying fuck you :D
19:08 < zozoR> "dynamic linking usually means less cats" i almost believe i
need that on a t-shirt too
19:08 < crazy2be> aiju: You mean less kittens?
19:09 < crazy2be> hmm
19:09 < crazy2be> there was an openid library somewhere
19:09 < crazy2be> i stole it, updated it, and used it in my own web app
19:09 < TheMue> hmm, coding a mix of javascript and jquery inside a template
string inside go code is funny.  I need embedded systax highlighting.
19:09 < crazy2be> but now I have no idea where i got it from
19:09 < crazy2be> TheMue: Or seperate files
19:10 < aiju> crazy2be: i meant to imply, dynamic linking doesn't affect
compile time
19:10 < aiju> only link time
19:10 < crazy2be> aiju: link time is part of overall compile time
19:10 < crazy2be> like how long it takes me to get an executable from my
code
19:11 < TheMue> crazy2be: yep, that will be the result, currently it's just
prototyping.
19:11 < crazy2be> TheMue: What're you working on?
19:11 < aiju> TheMue: syntax highlighting is spawn from hell
19:11 < crazy2be> syntax highlighting is pretty :)
19:11 < TheMue> aiju: i like it
19:11 < aiju> text is text and not a rainbow -- uriel
19:12 < aiju> see also http://aiju.de/rant/syntax-highlighting
19:12 < TheMue> crazy2be: a portal project inside the appengine
19:12 < taruti> aiju: just use a monochrome monitor with it :P
19:12 < crazy2be> rainbows are prettier than text
19:12 < aiju> taruti: syntax highlighting predates color monitors
19:12 < aiju> you can also typeset some random stuff bold
19:12 < taruti> rainbows <3
19:12 < aiju> and pretend it makes shit easier to read
19:12 < crazy2be> it makes code more readable
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19:14 < zozoR> aiju, just won't admit that he is colourblind
19:14 < aiju> hahaha
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19:14 < crazy2be> syntax highlighting doesn't make sense for poetry
19:14 < crazy2be> there's little meaning in the distinctions between the
words
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19:14 < zozoR> it does when you are a grammanzi
19:14 < zozoR> nazi*
19:15 < aiju> crazy2be: uh huh?  pretty much the same thing
19:15 < zozoR> you give the verbs the red colour, and blue colour to the ..
blue words which i cant remember the english name for
19:15 < crazy2be> well then you should color all the nouns one color, all
the adjectives one color...
19:15 < zozoR> nouns :D
19:16 < zozoR> if someone made that kind of syntax highlighting, my english
exam would have been better
19:16 < aiju> crazy2be: that's what that example is
19:16 < aiju> except that is fucked up for some words
19:16 < aiju> just like real syntax highlighting
19:16 < crazy2be> t.t
19:16 < crazy2be> oops
19:16 < zozoR> which is short for colourblind aiju :P
19:16 < crazy2be> wrong emoticon
19:16 < crazy2be> -.-
19:17 < zozoR> "I JUST GIVE THESE WORDS RANDOM COLOUR AND THEN HATE ON
SYNTAX HIGHLIGHTING!" :D
19:17 < aiju> zozoR: they are not random
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19:18 < zozoR> :3
19:18 < zozoR> oh
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19:34 < crazy2be> aiju: Also the color scheme on that site is awful
19:34 < aiju> it's a reference to CGA
19:38 < crazy2be> nice rants tho
19:38 < crazy2be> even if they are falicious sometimes
19:39 < crazy2be> what about time gcc test.c and time gcc -static test.c?
19:39 < aiju> "falicious"?
19:39 < aiju> do you mean "fallacious"?
19:40 < crazy2be> yeah, konversation doesn't have spellcheck :/
19:40 < crazy2be> not sure why
19:40 < aiju> a bad worker blames his tools
19:40 < crazy2be> heh
19:40 < crazy2be> Well I could google it to see if it was correct
19:40 < aiju> wow
19:40 < crazy2be> but that would slow things down a lot
19:40 < aiju> why is gcc static linking so slow
19:41 < crazy2be> I have no idea why, just that it is
19:41 < crazy2be> which is why I liked dynamic linking when developing
19:42 < aiju> % time rc -c '8c test.c ; 8l test.8'
19:42 < aiju> 0.01u 0.00s 0.11r
19:42 < crazy2be> also you added zozoR's quote to your about page :P
19:42 < aiju> yeah
19:42 < aiju> this is why i prefer kencc when developing ;P
19:43 < jessta> aiju: your rant about the GPL, the freedom in the GPL isn't
for the developer it's for the user.
19:44 < aiju> the freedom in third reich is for the aryans, not the jews
19:44 < aiju> (yes, godwin's law)
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19:44 < jessta> ...that was quick
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19:45 < crazy2be> lol
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19:46 < aiju> anyway, gpl doesn't make the user any more free than bsd
19:46 < crazy2be> yes it does
19:46 < aiju> uh hu?
19:46 < crazy2be> it gaurentees they will have access to the source code
19:46 < aiju> for derivative works
19:47 < crazy2be> which means they can ascertain for sure what is happening
19:47 < aiju> as a user of a program i don't care what anyone else is doing
with it
19:48 < crazy2be> that's fine
19:48 < crazy2be> you don't have to care
19:48 < crazy2be> other people might tho
19:48 < jessta> bsd relies on people not being dicks, the GPL tries to
prevent them from being dicks
19:48 < aiju> they should see a psychologist, then
19:49 < crazy2be> gnv b bjhnhk.';[lpikjhbnjkm,nbvnjhhcdwexfxccfxsc
zcxxzxcxfxvc
vbgty5g67hu66gjikihybft6btbgvtccrtrctrcfee34dreesrfegrcdfdsftgydsrftgyhjikl;kioup;['0=][-0o9kijuhygtfredwqw3erftegyhgjyiklo;';
19:49 < crazy2be> 'nmmki,iilokjhbghn
vbhftvgbffrdrdrftrtds5rdgdsredeesrafcxaZQSXXedexdrf4rftgrv5fdgfrtfrt4ertygfdcgvdvgdgvgcbdbfrdvgbcxscvb
bbvgtcrbyhnjmkiokhbgvhbjnkm,l;.  vcxcvgcgf6rgh
19:49 < crazy2be> sorry
19:49 < crazy2be> vacuuming my keyboard
19:50 < crazy2be> jessta: Exactly.  Positive vs negative freedoms
19:50 < aiju> there was this other good gpl rant
19:50 < jessta> but I don't really care for the GPL anyway, it complicates
things and isn't important if users actually value freedom in their software
19:51 < crazy2be> Well, the GPL is stupid for librarys
19:51 < crazy2be> *libraries
19:51 < crazy2be> but makes sence for some larger applications
19:51 < crazy2be> like the linux kernel should be gpl imo
19:51 < crazy2be> because if it was bsd, there would be 100000 different
commercial versions of it
19:51 < crazy2be> like what happened with unix
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19:52 < crazy2be> that's the danger of having a large application bsd: It
can easily become fragmented because of compitition between comercial interests
19:53 < crazy2be> and as opposed to a library, there's not much advantage of
being bsd
19:53 < crazy2be> maybe i'm wrong
19:53 < aiju> huh?  unix code was very strictly licensed
19:54 < crazy2be> strictly how?
19:54 < aiju> as in
19:54 < aiju> USE THIS CODE AND WE WILL SUE YOU
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19:55 < aiju> it was developed at AT&T, what would you expect?
19:56 < crazy2be> then how did the unix wars come about?
19:57 < aiju> SysV was an AT&T product
19:58 < aiju> no clue how berkeley got through
19:59 < aiju> they got into legal trouble later
19:59 < aiju> violating licenses don't make god strike you with lightning
immediately, you know
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20:02 < aiju> http://mod16.org/hurfdurf/?p=101 regarding GPL
20:04 < crazy2be> llol
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20:05 < jessta> aiju: you realise the GPL is a reaction to the problem of
copyright
20:07 < jessta> it creates a little world where the problem doesn't exist
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20:31 < zippoxer> so...  people..  what do you say about oop?
20:31 < aiju> oop spelled backwards is poo -- uriel
20:31 < zippoxer> Lol.
20:31 < zippoxer> I just read that page of yours
20:32 < aiju> well, "page"
20:32 < aiju> has yet to be extended
20:32 < zippoxer> what to extend there?
20:32 < aiju> heh
20:32 < zippoxer> :)
20:32 < aiju> needs text
20:32 < zippoxer> the package structure is more good for the human brain!
20:32 < aiju> but "oop" is a meaningless time
20:32 < aiju> so meh
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20:47 < zozoR> what is the difference between oop and the thing running in
go : |
20:47 < aiju> zozoR: no one really knows
20:47 < aiju> oop is a hype and as usual with a hype no one knows what it
actually is
20:48 < crazy2be> "Object-oriented programming (OOP) is a programming
paradigm using "objects" – data structures consisting of data fields and methods
together with their interactions – to design applications and computer programs."
20:48 < crazy2be> good oop is good
20:48 < crazy2be> bad oop is bad
20:48 < aiju> nice theoretical definition
20:48 < aiju> now apply it to practice
20:48 < zozoR> and how is that different from structs that you can envoke
functions on ..
20:48 < crazy2be> zozoR: data visibility generally
20:49 < crazy2be> and syntactic sugar (foo.Bar() rather than
package_foo_bar(foo))
20:49 < crazy2be> that being said, most attempts at oop I see are horrid
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20:50 < aiju> "package_foo_bar" is largely superfluous
20:50 < zozoR> i still dont see a difference
20:50 < crazy2be> and the stupid association with "real objects" that
everywhere teaches it as
20:50 < aiju> haha
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20:50 < crazy2be> like using a car as an example of a class
20:51 < jessta> it's great at marketing itself
20:51 < aiju> comparing programming languages to natural languages is like
comparing operating system kernels to popcorn kernels
20:51 < zozoR> XD
20:51 < aiju> jessta: so is XML
20:51 < crazy2be> it's eXtensible!
20:51 < crazy2be> everyone wants that!
20:52 < aiju> yeah
20:52 < aiju> "extensibility" and "code reuse"
20:52 < jessta> XML, it's just like html and you already know html so this
should be easy
20:52 < zozoR> typedef Car struct { wheels int}; func (c Car) RemoveWheels()
{Dostuff}
20:52 < zozoR> object
20:52 < aiju> keywords to turn off the brains of many programmers
20:52 < crazy2be> zozoR: Except that design probably doesn't work out well
in practice
20:53 < crazy2be> it's quite possible that the most logical seperation of
logic is not having different cars
20:53 < crazy2be> if you're writing a routing system, you probably don't
care about individual cars
20:54 < aiju> code caring about the real world?  that's just the path to
insanity
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20:54 < crazy2be> but the biggest issue is the lack of well-defined
responsibility boundries
20:54 < crazy2be> I've come across it many times back when I was writing C++
20:54 < crazy2be> you might want your CarManager object to give all your
cars access to the Road they are on, so that they can spill oil on it
20:54 < aiju> "responsibility boundaries"?
20:55 < crazy2be> and the BarrierBase so that they can crash into it
20:55 < zozoR> so its about inherinting?
20:55 < crazy2be> aiju: What the responsibility of the object is
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20:56 < aiju> i have no clue what you mean
20:56 < crazy2be> zozoR: Go is probably OOP based on the wikipedia
definition, but it's a meaningless term really
20:57 < crazy2be> go wouldn't be OOP under the normal usage, like java is
OOP
20:57 < crazy2be> aiju: Real objects have almost no limits on what they can
do
20:57 < aiju> ah
20:57 < aiju> that real objects stuff
20:57 < crazy2be> so it's harder (I find) to draw the boundry lines from
responsibilities
20:57 < aiju> who cares, really
20:57 < zozoR> : |
20:57 < zozoR> what can a class do that a struct cant
20:58 < aiju> zozoR: fancy inheritance
20:58 < crazy2be> zozoR: Constructors, destructors
20:58 < zozoR> cant it just embed stuff
20:58 < aiju> there is no polymorphism
20:58 < crazy2be> but Interfaces are basically inheritance
20:58 < zozoR> you would have to add methods too if you count Constructors
and destructors as "lacking"
20:59 < zozoR> cant java interfaces do the same as go interfaces
20:59 < zozoR> except that they have to be implemented
20:59 < crazy2be> zozoR: Kinda
20:59 < crazy2be> they have to be explicit
20:59 < aiju> cant bicycles do the same as planes
21:00 < aiju> except that they have to be manually powered
21:00 < crazy2be> bikes are better
21:00 < aiju> i'm glad i'm not going by bike to vienna tomorrow
21:00 < zozoR> i dont believe you can compare it that way :D
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21:01 < zozoR> well, i suppose the point is that no one cares wth oop is
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21:03 < Halavanja> I have another stupid question about maps
21:03 < Halavanja> I am trying to assign a value to a map that is declared
as a struct with a string as an index
21:04 < Halavanja> It will not let me assign values to different parts of
the struct based on this index using member selctor oporator
21:04 < Halavanja> Is there another way to do this?
21:04 < crazy2be> Halavanja: foo["bar"].SomeStructField doesn't work?
21:05 < Halavanja> no sadly
21:05 < crazy2be> what is the error?
21:06 < crazy2be> because it should work as I understand it
21:06 < Halavanja> cannot assign to fm.data[address].Counts
21:06 < Halavanja> thats what I thought as well
21:06 < crazy2be> hm
21:06 < jessta> Halavanja: yeah, you can't do that
21:07 < aiju> Halavanja: use pointers
21:07 < aiju> map[string] *SomeStruct
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21:07 < jessta> items in maps aren't addressable
21:07 < crazy2be> oh, I probably was just always using pointers :P
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21:08 < Halavanja> So if I make that struct a pointer I will be able to
direclty assign with a dereference?
21:08 < aiju> yeah, should
21:08 * aiju is off to sleep
21:08 < crazy2be> aiju: Sweet dreams
21:08 < crazy2be> Don't have any nightmeres about the GPL!
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21:09 < Halavanja> Okay I will try that.
21:09 < Halavanja> So far it throws a stack blown error
21:10 < Halavanja> But I may have to change the code a little.
21:10 < crazy2be> stack blown?
21:10 < crazy2be> wtf?
21:10 < Halavanja> You know a trace back when a invalid pointer is
referenced wrong
21:10 < Halavanja> May not be a blown stack lol
21:10 < Halavanja> Might have my terminology a bit wrong
21:10 < Halavanja> lol
21:10 < crazy2be> oh
21:11 < crazy2be> invalid pointer or nil pointer dereference or something?
21:11 < crazy2be> not actually the stack exploding
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21:11 < crazy2be> because that should never happen in go
21:11 < Halavanja> Ya
21:12 < Halavanja> haha Its an old thing we used to say in my school when we
were being lazy and didn't feel like naming things
21:12 < crazy2be> lol
21:12 < crazy2be> you could just say it "blew up" :P
21:13 < Halavanja> Haha yeah.  That is exactly what it is doing right now
21:13 < Halavanja> Says I have a lookup in nil map...
21:14 < crazy2be> make(map[string]*Struct) first?
21:14 < Halavanja> Yeah.  Ill post the code in a sec
21:16 < Halavanja> http://pastebin.com/VJxy1Af1
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21:17 < jessta> Halavanja: you still have to make() the maps in strcuts
21:18 < Halavanja> Can that declaration exsist in a struct naming?
21:18 < Halavanja> I wasnt aware I could do that
21:18 < jessta> fm.data = make(map[string]*Data_store)
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21:19 < jessta> no, you'll have to do it on a function
21:19 < Halavanja> I did.
21:19 < Halavanja> And it still blew up
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21:19 < Halavanja> Which it weird
21:19 < jessta> it's common to create a function like NewFlunkym() to
construct types
21:20 < Halavanja> Yeah.  I have an init function like that
21:22 < jessta> http://pastebin.com/cMxFRXyy
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21:25 < Halavanja> http://pastebin.com/sZmMSJy4
21:25 < Halavanja> That may work as well
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21:28 < jessta> Halavanja: but then you have to new(Flunkym) aswell anyway
21:29 < Halavanja> Ya that would be the first call before it
21:29 < Halavanja> but i see what you mean
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22:15 < temoto> Could someone explain runtime assembly defintions, e.g.
TEXT runtime.cgocallback(SB),7,$12 <- what is SB, 7 and 12?
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you to know that it is"]
22:40 < crazy2be> temoto: No idea, sorry :P
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23:01 < kevlar> temoto: you'll probably have to ask iant or rsc or someone
like that.  If you post on golang-dev you'll probably get an answer.  golang-nuts
would probably work too, if you have more general questions surrounding that one.
23:02 < temoto> Thanks.
23:03 < kevlar> no problem.
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23:47 < chomp> temoto, check this out:
http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/asm
23:48 < chomp> it documents that stuff
23:48 < chomp> see the "Defining a procedure" section
23:48 < temoto> chomp, thank you
23:48 < chomp> no prob
23:50 < chomp> you may still have to dig around a bit more, but looking at
plan9 assembler will probably help
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 27 00:00:54 2011