--- Log opened Tue Jul 05 00:00:12 2011
--- Day changed Tue Jul 05 2011
00:00 < sdegutis> or get a reference to a function such as net.Dial from the
string "net.Dial"?
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00:14 < crazy2be> sdegutis: what are you trying to do?
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00:17 < crazy2be> sgegutis: It's not directly possible, because this isn't
php or an interpreted language
00:17 < crazy2be> however, it might be kinda possible if you want to parse
the string and find each type
00:17 < crazy2be> gotry does it somehow
00:21 < sdegutis> crazy2be: what do you mean?
00:22 < sdegutis> crazy2be: i know it can be done even with compiled
languages, if designed with that in mind (ie, objective-c)
00:22 < sdegutis> crazy2be: ill look at gotry, thanks
00:23 < crazy2be> sgegutis: *why* are you trying to get a reference to a
function net.Dial from the string "net.Dial"?
00:23 < sdegutis> i dont see the gotry command, only the pkg
00:23 < crazy2be> gotry regexp 'MustCompile("^[0-9]+")' '"12345"' true
00:24 < sdegutis> crazy2be: because i am building a lisp package in go and
im trying to see how feasible interoperability is
00:27 < crazy2be> sdegutis: have a github?  sounds cool
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00:28 < sdegutis> yea http://github.com/sdegutis :)
00:28 < crazy2be> I have gojs which I think uses reflect to get the field
names on structs so that javascript can set them
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00:28 < sdegutis> sweet
00:29 < crazy2be> e.g.  (go): type foo struct{bar int} (javascript): foo.bar
= 3
00:29 < cmike_> hey crazy2be
00:29 < sdegutis> when i already have an object, it seems possible to mess
with it using reflect package,
00:29 < crazy2be> cmike_ ubuntu network lag?  :P
00:29 < sdegutis> but at the moment im not sure i can do things like
"net.Dial" from inside my lisp,
00:29 < sdegutis> which would make it pretty much useless.
00:29 < cmike_> ha ha ha very funny
00:29 < cmike_> but yes, true
00:30 < sdegutis> aw snap.
00:30 < sdegutis> gotry does it by compiling it first.
00:30 < crazy2be> oh
00:30 < sdegutis> i mean, by adding the "import" part after compiling it
00:30 < sdegutis> turns out gotry is just a bash script
00:30 < crazy2be> dang
00:30 < cmike_> i actually have my private cloud up and running now
00:31 < sdegutis> i guess thats not so bad.  i wonder if i can still do
this.
00:31 < crazy2be> here i was thinking it was a fancy interpreter for go
00:31 < cmike_> using qemu
00:31 < crazy2be> cmike_: cool
00:32 < cmike_> getting another node up and running now
00:32 < sdegutis> oh well thanks anyway guys
00:32 < crazy2be> how does this node thing work anyway?
00:33 < cmike_> each node you add allows you to run more instances
00:34 < crazy2be> instances of what?
00:34 < cmike_> anything really, os's, different backends
00:35 < cmike_> i have some ubuntu and centOS instances running right now
00:35 < warlock_mza> hey guys, anyway to limit the max connections the http
module can handle at once ?
00:35 < crazy2be> warlock_mza: You could write your own multiplexer
00:35 < crazy2be> what is your goal?
00:36 < vsmatck> You probably don't want to limit it by connections.  You
probably want to do connections per IP, or per something.
00:36 < warlock_mza> crazy2be, just want to do stress test but wanna be able
to limit it
00:36 < warlock_mza> crazy2be, overriding the multiplexer seems a good idea
:-)
00:36 < vsmatck> You can do that on the client.  You're using siege or
apache bench or something?
00:37 < warlock_mza> I know I can on the client, the thing is I wanna let
the server handle as much as it can but not more
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00:37 < warlock_mza> I want it to reject connections over a certain limit to
avoid thrashing the whole server
00:37 < crazy2be> firewall might be able to handle that, not sure
00:38 < crazy2be> and what happens to the other connections?  they get an
"over capacity" message?
00:38 < warlock_mza> yeah, I know, ...  but once again, I wan't that to be a
http server parameter
00:38 < vsmatck> If you're worried about connections then you may be worried
about scale.  In which case you can limit connections on your reverse http proxy
(balancer).
00:38 < warlock_mza> crazy2be, they just get a a tcp reject
00:38 < warlock_mza> tcp reset*
00:39 < warlock_mza> ok, so here's the thing, if I spawn a million
goroutines cause of incoming clients, won't those stop other goroutines doing
backend work from working nicely
00:39 < warlock_mza> ?
00:39 < crazy2be> they might
00:40 < warlock_mza> that's why I want to limit the concurrency on incoming
clients
00:40 < warlock_mza> go provide some qos for others
00:40 < crazy2be> but if the backgroud work is super important, you can run
those goroutines as different processes and nice them
00:40 < crazy2be> what are they contending over?
00:40 < crazy2be> CPU, network, disk?
00:41 < warlock_mza> don't just know yet,
00:41 < warlock_mza> so I'll see where I can get overriding the mux
00:42 < crazy2be> It can also force a limited number of threads if you want
00:42 < vsmatck> Go routines won't interfere with eachother.  You'll
probably want to measure/adjust GOMAXPROCS later but that's it.
00:42 < crazy2be> vsmatck: they won't interfere, but the background ones
will potentially be forced to run slower
00:43 < warlock_mza> vsmatck, yeah, and if the proportion of client
servicing ones is quite higher than the backend ones ? I guess there's a higher
chance that backend doesn't run too often
00:44 < crazy2be> but it depends what they are contending over
00:44 < warlock_mza> I see that,
00:44 < crazy2be> if your limiter is network for the frontend threads, and
your limiter is CPU for the backend threads, they can coexist
00:46 < warlock_mza> so basically, how do I keep my client from
crashing/swapping if incoming connections just never stop ?
00:47 < warlock_mza> I'll just have to handle that via firewall
00:48 < crazy2be> you could check available memory for each connection
request, then deny it if there is very little memory available
00:48 < vsmatck> firewall = wrong word.  You'd be looking at something like
haproxy or nginx.
00:48 < crazy2be> if swap is what you're worried about
00:48 < warlock_mza> k, so how do I deny ?
00:48 < crazy2be> custom servemux :)
00:48 < warlock_mza> :-) got it
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00:55 < cmike_> no one going to to watch the fireworks tonight?
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00:59 < crazy2be> fireworks?  Oh right, Americia
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01:09 < warlock_mza> any equivalent of listen(2) back_log parameter for net
module ?
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01:15 < cmike_> i would rather stay inside and code crazy2be
01:16 < crazy2be> cmike_: Heh
01:16 < crazy2be> Here's some code smell for you
01:17 < crazy2be> the test suite fails on a test funtion if it is run along
with the other tests
01:17 < crazy2be> but if it is run alone, it runs fine
01:17 < htoothrot> i may try to see some fireworks, or i may just watch
this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS-FoXbjVI
01:19 < crazy2be> oh, nevermind, I just spelt the test name wrong for
gotest.test
01:19 < crazy2be> funny how it doesn't give an error if 0 tests are matched
01:20 < cmike_> ya
01:27 < crazy2be> nice log entry: 19:32:27 base.cgo1.go:4294967264: About to
evaluate script: n.AddWith(0.5) &{0x85bc2a80 0x96969418} ./testing.go 1
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01:27 < crazy2be> ~4 billion lines of code apparently
01:28 < trn> wonder what the cost-estimate for development on that is
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01:29 < crazy2be> woo!  Goes through entire test suite without catching fire
or exploding!
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01:30 < cmike_> anyone know of a web server stress test .......  test?
01:32 < crazy2be> cmike_: uh?
01:32 < crazy2be> like siege?
01:32 < cmike_> i want to test performance in my instances running compared
to a dedicated server
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01:33 < crazy2be> siege should do what you want
01:33 < crazy2be> it stress tests servers
01:34 < ajray1> <3 siege
01:34 < cmike_> yep, that will do
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01:42 < kuroneko> is there any particular reason why r58 isn't tagged as
'release', or am I just failing at hg again?  :)
01:43 < str1ngs> release.r58 8731:1b38d90eebcd
01:43 < str1ngs> release 8731:1b38d90eebcd
01:44 < kuroneko> right, I'm failing at hg.  :)
01:44 < str1ngs> join the club :P
01:45 < str1ngs> and some of the branching fubared by hg-git mirror workflow
:(
01:45 < str1ngs> my*
01:45 < kuroneko> hmm.
01:46 < kuroneko> hg pull seems to be ignoring the update to release
01:46 < kuroneko> I have release.r58, but release isn't budging.  >_<
01:46 < str1ngs> hg pull -u
01:46 < str1ngs> hmm
01:47 < str1ngs> I might have mis read you
01:47 < kuroneko> yup - I think so
01:47 < kuroneko> my local release tag isn't following upstream.
01:47 < kuroneko> but I do have a release.r58 tag from upstream
01:47 < ajray1> git-hg for the win
01:49 < kuroneko> yea, I much prefer git - I'm actually using this hg
checkout for my local build env and pushing into our production git repos which I
build our internal packages from >_>
01:49 < str1ngs> git-hg is not that great.  I find hg-git mirror is better
01:49 < str1ngs> but I havent looked at git-hg for awhile
01:50 < kuroneko> I use hg-git to do the crossover.
01:50 < kuroneko> which was pretty painless, just slow.  :)
01:50 < str1ngs> ya same here but hg-git use git-fastimport which is kind
crappy unless you gc it
01:50 < str1ngs> so there is alot of steps involved
01:53 < cmike_> i use svn
01:54 < str1ngs> lol
01:54 < str1ngs> sucks to be you!
01:54 < cmike_> actually CVS
01:54 < Tekerson> visual source safe?
01:54 < cmike_> it's awesome, you have all these things called conflicts
when working on teams
02:01 < cmike_> no one will talk to me now?  i was just joking.  I know,
version control is nothing to joke about
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02:06 < kuroneko> ah, found the issue.  >_<
02:06 < kuroneko> old bookmarks plugin was causing havoc.
02:06 < kuroneko> gofigure.
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02:34 < str1ngs> crazy2be: get a gravatar already :P
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02:35 < cmike_> no github avatar without gravatar
02:35 < cmike_> bs
02:36 < str1ngs> total fail
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02:40 < cmike_> ya, i still havnt signed up to add an avatar
02:41 < exch> A representative avatar will help expand your cult following
on github
02:42 < str1ngs> or help semi blind people process information better :P
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02:44 < crazy2be> how do you get an avatar?
02:45 < str1ngs> https://github.com/account
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03:09 < crazy2be> now to choose a picture
03:10 < crazy2be> I added a picture
03:10 < crazy2be> how long does the change take to propogate?
03:11 < ajray1> wait for them to restart their server
03:12 < str1ngs> yes github runs on one server
03:12 < str1ngs> crazy2be: thanks helps my poor eyes
03:14 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Shows up for you?
03:14 < crazy2be> doesn't show up for me :/
03:15 < cmike_> fine, i will get a gravatar also
03:15 < str1ngs> crazy2be: not yet, sure it will evenutally
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03:15 < str1ngs> now it does :P
03:18 < dforsyth> is the debug package dead?  or is no one just working on
it now?
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04:35 < crazy2be> str1ngs: still didn't show up :/
04:36 < str1ngs> crazy2be: ctrl refresh probably cached
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04:38 < crazy2be> str1ngs: yeah, it was
04:38 < crazy2be> I thought bad caches were a thing of the past
04:38 < str1ngs> nope all browsers pretty much cache like that still
04:39 < crazy2be> aren't they supposed to use last-modified?
04:39 < crazy2be> like headers and stuff
04:39 < crazy2be> maybe they do
04:39 < crazy2be> I guess github doesn't know when something will change
until it does
04:39 < str1ngs> no to cache like that they probably dont even do a request
04:41 < str1ngs> not to mention github uses content providers so could be 3
of many chaches
04:41 < str1ngs> caches*
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04:55 < crazy2be> uurrrgghhh javascriptcore is swallowing my error
04:56 < crazy2be> I set the error in the go callback, then it goes through
c, c returns with no error
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05:15 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Also, all the memory corruption errors in gojs
*should* be fixed
05:16 < crazy2be> there's a whole bunch of other issues that still have to
be resolved
05:16 < crazy2be> failing tests, etc
05:16 < crazy2be> but it no longer actually explodes on i386
05:16 < crazy2be> you're welcome to test it on x64 if you get a chance, I'm
looking forward to seeing the blown up stack trace :P
05:17 < str1ngs> crazy2be: did you need me to test on x86_64?
05:18 < str1ngs> derp didnt read the last line
05:18 < str1ngs> ya give me about 15min then I can test.
05:18 < crazy2be> str1ngs: If you have a moment, i'd be interested to know
if it blows up :P
05:18 < crazy2be> ok sounds good
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05:32 < magn3ts> Anyone using Go on GAE?
05:32 < str1ngs> crazy2be: same branch?
05:33 < crazy2be> str1ngs: it;s been merged to master
05:33 < crazy2be> magn3ts: lots of people are :P
05:33 < magn3ts> I've heard lots of horror stories about python apps in GAE
and was curious if ppl were having good experiences so far with it.
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05:35 < str1ngs> crazy2be: https://gist.github.com/ebc93d94681063ad2031
05:36 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Nicely done
05:37 < crazy2be> well, time to get myself an x64 os
05:37 < crazy2be> i guess
05:37 < crazy2be> not sure how else to test it
05:38 < crazy2be> after I get the rest of it working, of course
05:38 < str1ngs> crazy2be: what are you running that is i686?
05:40 < crazy2be> str1ngs: ubuntu
05:40 < str1ngs> crazy2be: amd64 should work
05:41 < str1ngs> install a 64 kernel and make a amd64 chroot with
debootstrap
05:41 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Yeah, I would just have to install it.  I assume
I can't hot-swap kernels or anything
05:42 < crazy2be> oh is it that easy?
05:42 < crazy2be> what about all the programs?
05:42 < str1ngs> yes but you have to run a 64bit kernel so use apt-cache to
find one then install it
05:42 < str1ngs> possibly it wont show up though do to arch
05:43 < str1ngs> crazy2be: programs?
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05:43 < crazy2be> like how do my 32 bit programs cooperate?  There's issues
with running 32 bit programs on a 64 bit os on windows at least
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05:44 < crazy2be> and wasn't there some issues with flash player?
05:44 < str1ngs> thats why you need the 64bit kernel
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05:45 < str1ngs> your 32bit userland will run fine
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06:05 < str1ngs> crazy2be: https://gist.github.com/100c225d3a8ffbfc7669 I'm
not sure if I should be proud or ashamed :(
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06:08 < crazy2be> str1ngs: Looks better than what i'm mucking about with :P
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06:08 < str1ngs> touche
06:08 < crazy2be> although embedding it in the binary seems...  strange
06:09 < str1ngs> ah that just so I dont have a dependency on a script
06:10 < str1ngs> more a temp thing hence the hard coded paths
06:10 < crazy2be> can't you just add the script to your git repo?
06:10 < crazy2be> well, they aren't *that* hardcoded
06:10 < str1ngs> yes then I need to add Makefile logic etc
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06:11 < crazy2be> it's not like /home/str1ngs/Documents/Source\
Code/Awesome\ Projects\ 432/Awesome\ Project\ 328901809/someprogram.sh
06:12 < crazy2be> it's actually a place things might commonly be :P
06:12 < str1ngs> I hope to replace of the posix sh stuff anyways
06:13 < crazy2be> how do you recover from a panic()?  I have something like
this: https://gist.github.com/1064335
06:13 < crazy2be> but it still panics on nil pointer dereference
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06:14 < str1ngs> https://gist.github.com/6a5e278b07b08a016bce
06:14 < str1ngs> something like that
06:14 < str1ngs> not all panics are recoverable
06:15 < crazy2be> are nil pointer dereferences recoverable?
06:15 < crazy2be> i.e.  panic: runtime error: invalid memory address or nil
pointer dereference
06:15 < str1ngs> create a test case and find out?
06:15 < str1ngs> :p
06:15 < crazy2be> lol
06:15 < str1ngs> I'll test
06:15 < str1ngs> this is what my project foo is for!
06:16 < crazy2be> heh
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06:17 < crazy2be> I seem to recal the fmt library catching it before when
one of my String() functions paniced
06:17 < crazy2be> but it might have done some special trickery
06:18 < str1ngs> https://gist.github.com/b53efff3678a8193f3ed
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06:19 < str1ngs> short answer yes you can recover from a nil pointer
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06:24 < crazy2be> forked it to work with goplay :P
https://gist.github.com/de49edeb7380defab0af
06:25 < magn3ts> so who uses google + hosts redirect from golang.org ->
localhost:8989 to search for doc info?
06:25 < magn3ts> someone should maintain a tip.golang.org/doc mirror.
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06:26 < str1ngs> magn3ts: just use godoc
06:26 < str1ngs> godoc os | grep File
06:26 < str1ngs> the server is nice but mostly for casual refrence I find
06:26 < magn3ts> oh god
06:27 < str1ngs> godoc os File works to
06:27 < magn3ts> personally, that's very unusable for me.
06:27 < str1ngs> lol how so?
06:27 < magn3ts> without grep is better, no glaring red.
06:27 < str1ngs> use egrep ?
06:27 < str1ngs> or less ?
06:27 < magn3ts> the color and formatting of the html allows me to search
much faster
06:27 < str1ngs> pipe to vim?
06:27 < magn3ts> especially if I don't know what I'm looking for and need to
scan quickly.
06:28 < magn3ts> haha, I suppose I could certainly wire something up.  I was
happy to allow for chrome to cut corners
06:28 < magn3ts> even some basic indention on godoc's output would improve
it greatly
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06:30 < crazy2be> the html is a pain because I have to switch to another
window
06:30 < magn3ts> on a chromebook?
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06:31 < magn3ts> or just the alt-tab is distracting?
06:31 < crazy2be> the latter
06:31 < str1ngs> why assume alt-tab?
06:31 < str1ngs> becuase you use alt-tab therefore the whole world does?
06:31 < crazy2be> I usually use F12 godoc os File (scroll) F12
06:31 < magn3ts> str1ngs, I didn't.  :s
06:32 < crazy2be> F12 brings me my guake terminal <3
06:32 < magn3ts> I guess the vim autocomplete greatly decreases my need to
reference the docs, but I'm also new enough that I run back for syntax or examples
that require searching quickly and scanning formatted text but that's just easy
for me, the formatting helps me read and scan faster
06:32 < crazy2be> true
06:32 < str1ngs> magn3ts: I'm half kidding around.  I preffer console output
for everything.  but I understand not everyone is like that.
06:33 < crazy2be> it depends on the amount of time you are spending reading
06:33 < crazy2be> for quick lookups godoc is often nicer
06:33 < crazy2be> for extended readings, the html is nicer
06:33 < str1ngs> :!godoc os File :P
06:33 < magn3ts> str1ngs, I think the piped into vim and maybe marked up
with a bit of color or boldness to mimic the html slightly...  would be really
awesome.
06:33 < magn3ts> especially if I go to my chromebook + xforward my desktop
gvim like I want to do.
06:33 < str1ngs> magn3ts: you dont need it see above
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06:34 < str1ngs> magn3ts: you could probably output that to a buffer
06:34 < str1ngs> gvim ..  ewww :P
06:35 < magn3ts> like I said, the extra formatting and color really helps
me.
06:35 < str1ngs> does chromebook come with a terminal emulator?
06:35 < magn3ts> it comes with crosh
06:35 < magn3ts> but crosh's ssh can't x-forward
06:35 < str1ngs> crosh is that a shell or terminal emulator?
06:35 < magn3ts> but if you switch dev mode on, you get bash + true ssh,
etc.
06:36 < str1ngs> jesus you have to use devmode?
06:36 < magn3ts> yeah but that doesn't really mean much
06:36 < magn3ts> flip a switch, ignore a slightly extended boot up.
06:36 < str1ngs> what if you want to compile something
06:36 < crazy2be> magn3ts: What about godoc os File | grep -C 20 func ?
06:36 < crazy2be> highlights all the func lines
06:36 < str1ngs> ie say I want to complie rxvt?
06:36 < crazy2be> well the func parts
06:36 < magn3ts> str1ngs, I think you have to download the sdk and chroot.
I was wondering about building NX for Chrome OS.
06:36 < crazy2be> makes it very slightly easier to scan
06:37 < str1ngs> magn3ts: that terriable
06:37 < str1ngs> magn3ts: I like the idea of chromebook but I like to build
stuff etc
06:37 < str1ngs> not jails and chroots
06:37 < magn3ts> crazy2be, again, the thing is, I go into new libraries not
knowing what any of the functions are called or terminology is used...  sometimes
autocomplete helps enough, but it's easier for me to pull up the html with the
index at the tope with the fast jump to links for docs.
06:37 < magn3ts> but that can all be done with vim, so it'd be a cool plugin
06:37 < magn3ts> str1ngs, but the chromebook ideology is that you do things
remotely.
06:38 < magn3ts> str1ngs, it's a thin client in every sense.
06:38 < magn3ts> if they get their remoting stuff off the ground, it will be
better realized I hope.
06:38 < magn3ts> or like I said, trying to build NX binaries :p
06:39 < str1ngs> well its better then some other things I know.  but
seriously power users are going to hate most of that
06:39 < str1ngs> but maybe thats not the target though.
06:39 < magn3ts> I consider myself a power user, and I love the idea of
chromebooks.
06:39 < magn3ts> I'm tired of replicating my environment, tools, data and
code across 2 computers, a laptop, a chromebook, and an android phone
06:40 < str1ngs> I have never have that problem
06:40 < magn3ts> I love having a powerful Ubuntu desktop with my tools and
editors and data.
06:40 < str1ngs> git clone server: ~/
06:40 < magn3ts> And I can remote into it and access all of that data from
any device...  and I can develop on it.
06:40 < magn3ts> environment?  I have a lot of dotfiles checked into git,
but there's still a lot of boilerplate config it seems like.
06:41 < str1ngs> because you use guis :P
06:41 < magn3ts> I dunna, for an always-connected internet device...
06:41 < str1ngs> embrace the coreutils :P
06:41 < magn3ts> str1ngs, uh, I use gvim exclusively for the extended color
support
06:41 < magn3ts> coreutils?  we're in #go-nuts, lol.
06:42 < str1ngs> we were offtopic 3 pages back :P
06:42 < magn3ts> haha
06:42 < magn3ts> I just meant, I need more than coreutils in my environment
and available when developing
06:42 < str1ngs> no I meant coreutils like ls which sed
06:42 < str1ngs> etc etc
06:43 < str1ngs> then you dont rely on xml dconf settings etc
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06:43 < magn3ts> are you exclusively UI?
06:43 < str1ngs> no
06:43 < magn3ts> I spend most of the day in the terminal unless I'm in
chrome reddit/fb/docs
06:43 < magn3ts> er, exclusively CLI
06:43 < str1ngs> terminal editor and a browser is all I use
06:44 < magn3ts> +vlc+rhythmbox but I'm working on getting rid of those
using some new go based projects
06:44 < magn3ts> str1ngs, so, a chromebook = access from a cheap laptop with
a browser and a terminal representing your main powerful machine, plus always
connected via 3G.
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06:47 < str1ngs> magn3ts: provided the terminal emulator is ok
06:47 < magn3ts> like I said, crosh is crap
06:47 < magn3ts> you can get into bash
06:47 < magn3ts> what are you looking for in the terminal emulator?
06:48 < str1ngs> rxvt :P
06:48 < str1ngs> is about all I use
06:48 < str1ngs> aka urxvt
06:48 < magn3ts> I believe there is that as well
06:48 < magn3ts> yes.
06:49 < magn3ts> urxvt is there.
06:49 < magn3ts> or you can shell into your computer where you already have
urxvt.
06:49 < magn3ts> There is no compiler chain, you won't be able to build go
on it.
06:51 < str1ngs> then I need to XForward
06:51 < magn3ts> yup
06:52 < magn3ts> do they still come with free vzwireless?
06:52 < str1ngs> I dont travel enough to get one
06:52 < str1ngs> unless I was developing for it
06:52 < magn3ts> already have a primary laptop?
06:53 < str1ngs> no I work from home.  and I have an android tablet
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06:53 < magn3ts> do you dev from the tablet?
06:53 < str1ngs> no tablet is use for refrence
06:53 < str1ngs> reading etc
06:54 < magn3ts> ah
06:54 < magn3ts> no laptop?
06:54 < str1ngs> nope, netbook when I travel
06:54 < magn3ts> I'd be nervous without one.  I survived without it when I
had my cr48
06:54 < str1ngs> which is rare
06:54 < magn3ts> oooh.  what do you run on your netbook?
06:54 < str1ngs> linux
06:54 < magn3ts> more specifically :P
06:55 < str1ngs> archlinux on my netbook.  but I'll probably move to
https://github.com/str1ngs/vanilla
06:55 < str1ngs> I run vanilla on my desktop and mac
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07:01 < magn3ts> oh my
07:01 < magn3ts> interesting
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07:03 * magn3ts dusts off virtualbox
07:04 < str1ngs> magn3ts: qemu is better :P
07:04 < magn3ts> haha, I have no doubt.
07:05 < aiju> except that setting up qemu networking is a fucking nightmare
07:06 < str1ngs> magn3ts: also not for the feint of heart.
07:07 < aiju> haha
07:07 < aiju> "my software is superior, it's hilariously idiotic and complex
to use"
07:07 < aiju> sounds like emacs reasoning
07:07 < magn3ts> I tried as a middle schooler to install mandrake on a dell
laptop via external cdrom and floppy
07:07 < magn3ts> my heart should have feinted long ago, heh
07:07 < dforsyth> i set a laptop on fire compiling gentoo when i was in
middle school :\
07:08 < aiju> installing gentoo is kid's play in comparison to qemu
networking
07:08 < str1ngs> dforsyth: this is not gentoo
07:08 < str1ngs> its a binary distro
07:09 < magn3ts> str1ngs, also, you can install over chromeos on the
chromebooks, or at least the cr48
07:09 < dforsyth> str1ngs: yeah i was just looking at the package manager
07:09 < dforsyth> makes me want to start working on package manager stuff
again
07:09 < str1ngs> dforsyth: ovisouly I do alot of compiling but thats only
because someone has to package things
07:10 < dforsyth> gotest: "./8.out -test.short=true -test.timeout=120"
failed: signal 10
07:10 < dforsyth> boo
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07:11 < aiju> only 267 people like Go on facebook?
07:11 < aiju> i am disappointed
07:13 < magn3ts> It's kinda hard to find.
07:13 < magn3ts> It required a "full search" and it was like the 4th or 5th
choice :[
07:13 < aiju>
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Go-Programming-Language/178007773180
07:13 < str1ngs> dforsyth: I'm using go or alot of stuff
07:14 < str1ngs> for*
07:14 < aiju> also it seems like facebook has adopted these retarded # URLs
by now
07:14 < aiju> where is my shotgun
07:14 < str1ngs> ie I make a upstream version scrapper
07:14 < str1ngs> something like debian watch
07:14 < magn3ts> haha
07:19 < dforsyth> do you need to scrape?  if you have access to the package
server why not just build some sort of api?
07:20 < str1ngs> I have access to the package meta data.  the problem is
tracking new version upstream
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07:21 < str1ngs> see http://wiki.debian.org/debian/watch/
07:21 < str1ngs> explains better what I mean
07:21 < str1ngs> I dont do it that way though :P
07:21 < str1ngs> I scrap but we dont hardcode regexp
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07:24 < str1ngs> originally I was using http://oswatershed.org/ . but its
not accurate.  and I'd have to submit patches for pythong to fix it.  so I decided
to write the crawler in go.  where I have more control
07:24 < aiju> sending spam, eh?
07:25 < magn3ts> ?
07:25 < dforsyth> ah, you meant upstream of the actual software, thought you
meant upstream packages
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07:30 < str1ngs> that generally what upstream means :P
07:31 < dforsyth> yeah yeah :)
07:32 < str1ngs> what upstream packages we make our own :P
07:33 < dforsyth> i should really fix delete and put in my text editor so
its not as annoying to use
07:34 < magn3ts> I want minimap scroll for vim.  But I don't want to write a
vim plugin.
07:36 < dforsyth> like in sublime text?
07:36 < magn3ts> indeed and visual studio
07:38 < dforsyth> i dont really get that.  it looks cool, but what
functionality do you really get from it?  i couldnt get anything out of sublime
because i cant function in code without vi these days (apparently)
07:39 < aiju> some people can't code without visual noise all over the place
07:39 < magn3ts> I suppose I'd use it significantly less in vim, especially
considerign what behavior it replaced in my few days of usage
07:39 < aiju> cf.  syntax highlighting
07:39 < magn3ts> instead of searching my way to bits of code, I related them
to their physical location in the file and used the visual scrolled
07:39 < magn3ts> I found myself with lots of vim bindings coming up as
compile errors that I didn't notice I was doing :s
07:40 < magn3ts> aiju, are you saying you forego syntax highlighting?
07:40 < aiju> yeah
07:40 < magn3ts> aiju, surely it doesn't distract you?
07:40 < aiju> http://aiju.de/rant/syntax-highlighting
07:41 < aiju> i find it annoying
07:41 < magn3ts> interesting
07:41 < magn3ts> oh, cats?  disappointing.
07:45 < vegai> you just hate it because acme doesn't support it, admit it :P
07:45 < magn3ts> lot of plan 9 connections
07:46 < magn3ts> http://aiju.de/rant/POSIX lol offensive, bitter and
enjoyable
07:50 < zozoR> i dont get the posix one
07:51 < aiju> 09:52 < vegai> you just hate it because acme doesn't
support it, admit it :P
07:52 < aiju> i have "set syntax=off" in my vimrc
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07:59 < str1ngs> autotools is linux now?
07:59 < str1ngs> thats news to me
08:00 < str1ngs> if it was just linux we wouldnt have autotools
08:01 < str1ngs> I can agree that autotools sucks
08:01 < aiju> what the fuck are you talking about
08:10 < ajray1> seconded
08:11 < aiju> what he said or what i said?  ;p
08:11 < ajray1> autotools needs to go die (IMHO)
08:11 < ajray1> kconfig is much saner and uses the same shit
08:12 < aiju> someone who liked autotools, that'd be news to me
08:13 * ajray1 has been dealing with grub dev stuff, they seem to be pretty
pleased with it
08:13 < aiju> haha
08:13 < aiju> no surprise
08:13 < aiju> grub is the emacs of bootloaders
08:13 < ajray1> grub2 used to have this hacked together DIY build system
where ruby/python scripts would generate makefiles
08:13 < aiju> grub2 is the eclipse of bootloaders
08:14 < ajray1> then someone came along and say 'hay wouldnt it be great if
we did all this with autotools'
08:14 < ajray1> autotools + autogen + autoconf + automake == autohell
08:15 < aiju> http://9hal.ath.cx/usr/cinap_lenrek/grub3/index.html
08:17 < ajray1> you just made my day.
08:17 < magn3ts> haha
08:17 < ajray1> random grub fact of the day: grub2 has RUNTIME checks for
license compatability
08:17 < vegai> no, you made that up
08:17 < aiju> hahaha
08:18 < ajray1> vegai: shit you not, when i wrote my module and tried to
load it i got "ERROR: INCOMPATABLE LICENSE"
08:18 < ajray1> (i actually had a compatable license, but it demonstrated
two things: 1) i was corrupting the stack and 2) grub has runtime license checks)
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09:48 < Tonnerre> What does this error message mean: panic: reflect: call of
reflect.Value.Elem on slice Value
09:48 < Tonnerre> ?
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09:48 < Tonnerre> It's happenin gin asn1.Unmarshal()
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09:49 < aiju> Tonnerre: maybe you're supposed to pass a pointer / slice /
something else?
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09:53 < zozoR> maybe you didn't sacrifice enough goats
09:53 < Tonnerre> I tried using gob before but somehow the data always ended
up being corrupted
09:54 < Tonnerre> Pointer to string works
09:54 < Tonnerre> Thanks
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10:41 < jnwhiteh> gofmt -r doesn't support typing, does it?  i.e.  you can't
say s.Foo where s is a 'bar.Bar'?
10:45 < jnwhiteh> Alternatively, does anyone have a bit of code that can
help me write something that scans my source for every instance where I access a
given type, again, such as 'bar.Bar'
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10:49 < zozoR> search and replace?
10:52 < jessta> jnwhiteh: I think gocode does refactoring like that
10:52 < jnwhiteh> zozoR: no, this isn't a search and replace question..  not
sure how that helps.
10:53 < jnwhiteh> I'm asking for something that will scan my source and
return all instances where I access a given type.  You cannot do that lexically.
10:53 < jnwhiteh> jessta: gocode is my next stop, but I don't see where it
does refactoring
11:17 < Slant> How do I explicitly set the type of a variable?
11:17 < Slant> That is, I have a c := 7
11:17 < Slant> Then do a "x <<= c"
11:17 < Slant> But the compiler complains that c isn't a uint.
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11:33 < jessta> Slant: c := uint(7)
11:34 < Slant> jessta: cheers, thanks!
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11:50 < Slant> Is there a simple way to copy the contents from a []byte to a
[20]byte?  (A slice to an array)
11:51 < Slant> copy() doesn't seem to work in those circumstances.
11:52 < jessta> Slant: just make a slice of your array
11:52 < Slant> copy([]byte(dest), source) ?
11:53 < Slant> How does it handle overflows?
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11:54 < jessta> Slant: copy(dest[:],source)
11:56 < jessta> Slant: copy() returns the number of items copied, The number
of elements copied is the minimum of len(src) and len(dst).
11:57 < Slant> Is copy the only way to get the contents of a slice into an
array?
11:58 < jessta> ...you can do a for{} loop
12:00 < Slant> Hahaha.
12:00 < Slant> :-D
12:00 < Slant> OK, OK.
12:01 < Slant> I'm just surprised at how using a fixed array size makes the
code more complicated
12:01 < Slant> (Though avoids initialization weirdnesses.  Yay.)
12:01 < jessta> what is more complicated about it?
12:01 < Slant> http://pastie.org/2166948
12:01 < Slant> That's my first cut.
12:02 < Slant> (I'm obviously learning Go. :-))
12:02 < Slant> Course, that's still bugged.
12:02 < Slant> I haven't fixed it totally yet.  I used to have the decode
directly assigning into id.
12:03 < Slant> But now that NodeID is a [20]byte as opposed to a []byte
12:03 < Slant> I need to add more guard clauses.
12:03 < jessta> Slant: in Go arrays are values, so that won't work as you
expect
12:03 < Slant> Oh, shit.  They are?
12:03 < Slant> Argh.
12:03 < Slant> Right.
12:03 < Slant> Of course they are.
12:04 < Slant> So where a slice can be passed around...  they're pointing at
a range in memory...
12:04 < Slant> I need to actually make the NodeID be a pointer.
12:04 < aiju> 14:08 < Slant> I'm just surprised at how using a fixed
array size makes the code more complicated
12:04 < aiju> what?
12:04 < aiju> [:] is not really complicated
12:06 < jessta> Slant: you need to make the NodeID a slice
12:06 < Slant> aiju: Sorry, what I meant was I'm a bad Go programmer and
it's showing my flaws.
12:06 < Slant> jessta: I had it as a slice before.
12:07 < jessta> actually, since you're returning it might be ok
12:07 < Slant> jessta: But as NodeID is always sha1.Size (20), I thought to
switch its size to that.
12:07 < Slant> So that NodeID{} initializes a "correct" data structure.
12:07 < Slant> Effective Go style.  Things should init working.
12:09 < Slant> http://pastie.org/2166979
12:09 < Slant> Does that look more correct?
12:09 < Slant> I suppose stylistically too?
12:10 < Slant> Let alone, I'll take criticism...  am I doing this totally
wrong?
12:18 < aiju> no, seems okay
12:18 < aiju> i'd return after setting err
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12:31 < Slant> aiju: And not do the fall through?
12:31 < aiju> yeah
12:31 < aiju> it's faster!!1111oneoneeleven
12:31 < aiju> it's more readable
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13:34 < exch> Can cgo be made to statically link against a C lib?  (provided
it comes as a .a of course)
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13:38 < exch> Agon has figured out why libglfw is giving some people issues.
It installs itself as a static library by default.  Which seems to throw cgo into
disarray: https://github.com/jteeuwen/glfw/issues/1#issuecomment-1503504
13:39 < exch> I never had the issue myself because I manually installed it
as a shared lib
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13:57 < skelterjohn|work> morning
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14:39 < angasule> does gotgo have support for generic interfaces?
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14:40 < skelterjohn|work> gotgo creates a new source file, replacing
wherever you have T, in the context of a type, with the type you want
14:40 < str1ngs> exch: probably better to build the libglfw shared libraries
.
14:40 < exch> str1ngs: yea, probably
14:41 < angasule> skelterjohn|work: thanks
14:42 < skelterjohn|work> so it's not really generics, was my point - it's
templating
14:42 < skelterjohn|work> but, i'm pretty sure it works with interfaces
14:44 < angasule> skelterjohn|work: yeah, I get it, I'll just have to think
of an actual problem involving generic interfaces
14:44 < skelterjohn|work> a solution in search of a problem?  :)
14:44 < skelterjohn|work> what's your goal?
14:44 < aiju> what the fuck is 'gotgo'
14:44 < skelterjohn|work> what i just said.
14:45 < aiju> haha
14:45 < aiju> it used to be called 'gotit'
14:45 < skelterjohn|work> yes
14:45 < aiju> i liked that one better
14:47 < angasule> skelterjohn|work: pretty much :-) I'm just reading about
theory, also looking into Scala, etc
14:47 < angasule> a friend from work is interested in Scala, I'm interested
in Go, so we talk about both
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17:55 < cmike_> pretty quiet in here today
17:55 < cmike_> everyone working hard?
17:55 < skelterjohn|work> making it hard for me to procrastinate
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18:13 < xyproto> Is passing a map as quick as passing a pointer to a map?
18:13 < skelterjohn|work> yes
18:13 < aiju> yes
18:13 < aiju> maps are fancy pointers
18:13 < xyproto> thx :)
18:13 < xyproto> Also, are the "for ...  := range" constructs as quick as
for i:=0; i < ...; i++ ?
18:13 < skelterjohn|work> not necessarily
18:13 < aiju> why the fuck do you care
18:14 < xyproto> aiju: I'm trying to learn how to benchmark with Go
18:14 < aiju> run valgrind over it?
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18:14 < xyproto> aiju: isn't valgrind only for profiling memory usage?
18:14 < aiju> valgrind does everything and their mother
18:14 < aiju> callgrind='valgrind --tool=callgrind
--callgrind-out-file=call.out --dump-line=yes --dump-instr=yes'
18:15 < xyproto> aiju: good mood today?  ;)
18:15 < aiju> not exactly
18:15 < xyproto> aiju: what's wrong?  Lighten your heart at #go-nuts, and
you'll feel better.
18:15 < aiju> hahaha
18:15 < skelterjohn|work> we need to load up the emacs therapist
18:15 < skelterjohn|work> can't remember the nam
18:15 < skelterjohn|work> e
18:16 < aiju> Dr. h.c.  Stallman?
18:16 < xyproto> was that eliza?
18:16 < skelterjohn|work> eliza
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18:16 < jdahm> or just paste some messages alt.religion.emacs
18:16 < skelterjohn|work> How do you feel about Dr. h.c.  Stallman?
18:16 < jdahm> from
18:17 < xyproto> I remember a similar app that came with my soundblaster 16
card, "dr Sbaitso" or something similar.  It was like Eliza, only with text to
speech
18:17 < aiju> haha
18:17 < xyproto> Horrid, but fun
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18:34 < xyproto> Is there a package for dealing with bits in Go? And would
it be quicker than having an array of int or uint8?
18:34 < xyproto> (for representing 0 and 1)
18:34 < skelterjohn|work> yes...  i forget what though
18:35 < crazy2be> bytes and the latter probably
18:35 < skelterjohn|work> there was a long thread on the ML where various
people contributed
18:35 < skelterjohn|work> it was a bit weird tbh
18:35 < crazy2be> oh sorry I missred the last bit of your quesiton
18:35 < xyproto> skelterjohn: ok, I can see if I can find the ML thread.
Thx
18:35 < skelterjohn|work> i'm looking too
18:35 < xyproto> crazy2be: bits are probably quicker?
18:36 < crazy2be> xyproto: I was saying uint8 was probably quicker than int
:P
18:36 < xyproto> crazy2be: ah, I see :)
18:36 < crazy2be> but it likely depends on what you are doing :P
18:36 < skelterjohn|work> https://github.com/willf/bitset
18:37 < xyproto> skelterjohn: looks cool.  Wonder if it would actually be
faster than ints, though, with all the shifting and adding.  Hm.
18:37 < skelterjohn|work> depends on how many you have
18:37 < skelterjohn|work> if you have three flags, use three bool
18:37 < skelterjohn|work> s
18:38 < xyproto> crazy2be: representing genes in a simple GA implementation
18:38 < skelterjohn|work> for that, use the bitset :)
18:38 < xyproto> skelterjohn: ok :)
18:38 < skelterjohn|work> since you'll undoubtably want a huge number of
candidates
18:38 < xyproto> skelterjohn: yes.  It's already up and running, but I wish
to make it quicker.
18:40 < xyproto> I've implemented GAs before, but never "GP".  My plan was
to make it spit out functions with Go-code, just to see if there is fun to be had.
:P
18:40 < skelterjohn|work> sounds tricky
18:41 < xyproto> skelterjohn: it should be possible to translate from
numbers to go code, by using one number to select a template, another to select
the first sentence-type in the template, another to select a keyword for the first
sentence etc?
18:42 < skelterjohn|work> there is a one to one mapping between go programs
and numbers
18:42 < skelterjohn|work> so i don't doubt that you can find a way to do
that
18:42 < xyproto> skelterjohn: yeah, but for syntactically valid programs,
it's harder
18:42 < skelterjohn|work> some of them are valid, some aren't :)
18:43 < xyproto> skelterjohn: were you thinking of just outputting bytes
until something compiled?  :)
18:43 < skelterjohn|work> my advice, if you really want to have a go gene,
is to operate on the ast
18:44 < xyproto> skelterjohn: yeah, I think that's the way to go for
expressions, at least
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18:45 < xyproto> skelterjohn: but, how about generating functions that can
sort lists, for example?  It's been done before
18:45 < jdahm> (sorry in advance this question is probably stupid) are
goroutines meant to run on clusters with computer interconnects, or do they just
parallelize on a single CPU?
18:46 < crazy2be> jdahm: They run on multiple processors on the same machine
in the current implementation
18:46 < crazy2be> but you could probably make them run it clusters if you
really wanted to
18:46 < pharris> See, for example, http://golang.org/pkg/netchan/
18:47 < jdahm> but there's nothing like MPI?
18:48 < rm445> Goroutines can do things like access global variables, so an
implementation over multiple machines would have to do some interesting things.
18:48 < xyproto> jdahm: if you have a problem to solve that requires to use
all cpu on a computer and using several computers, I think it is solveable with,
for instance, goroutines and netchan
18:49 < skelterjohn|work> using netchan can allow you hide from a goroutine
the fact that communication is across machines
18:49 < jdahm> yes yes I'm sure.  I'm just trying to gauge how good a
language Go is for computation physics
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18:49 < xyproto> jdahm: probably never as good as fortran ;)
18:50 < skelterjohn|work> jdahm: the big advantage that goroutines (and
coroutines in general) have above the classical concurrency models is that they
can swap in and out (during io for instance) for greater efficiency
18:50 < jdahm> xyproto: but I dislike fortran immensely, I use C for it
18:50 < skelterjohn|work> if your physics simulation doesn't have much IO,
or other blocking tasks that would be good for goroutine swapping, you probably
won't see a performance increase
18:51 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@177.16.64.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]
18:51 < str1ngs> there is also rpc
18:51 < jdahm> I'm not worried about speed increases if I could get an
average code to run the same speed as C does, that's fine.  I am looking for
benefits in code organization, etc
18:52 < xyproto> jdahm: Go is one small step up from C/fortran/assembly in
terms of being slightly slower (for now) and with better abstractions and a syntax
that helps programmers avoid classical problems that leads to segfaults
18:52 < skelterjohn|work> then i think you will enjoy writing go code
18:52 < skelterjohn|work> i use go for all my experimentation software (i'm
in machine learning)
18:52 < jdahm> but it's pretty stable now, right?
18:52 < skelterjohn|work> and i find that i write code faster than I did
with either C++, python or java
18:52 < crazy2be> no headers is really nice
18:52 < skelterjohn|work> jdahm: it's stable enough so that it isn't much
work to keep things up to date
18:53 < jdahm> and it's not going anywhere, why not start moving over things
from C
18:53 < skelterjohn|work> especially if you stick to release instead of
weekly
18:53 < xyproto> jdahm: yes, since go is based on a legacy from plan9, it
feels more mature than the age reveals
18:53 < crazy2be> it is slightly slower than C if you are creating lots of
garbage in inner looks tho
18:53 < crazy2be> because of the gc
18:53 < xyproto> jdahm: you can also call C code if you should need it
18:54 < skelterjohn|work> yes - the go <-> C interface is fairly
simple and easy to use
18:54 < crazy2be> comparitively to python or something, anyway
18:55 < skelterjohn|work> yeah - you don't have to do a lot of setup - just
C.foo()
18:55 < xyproto> Go feels faster than Python and Java
18:55 < crazy2be> it is faster than python and usually java
18:55 < lucian> xyproto: if often is
18:55 < lucian> maybe not hotspot server after it warms up, that's really
fast
18:56 < crazy2be> java has a lot of optimizations under the hood these days,
but the jvm startup time is still bad
18:56 < skelterjohn|work> as long as you write your code in a
memory-conscious way, as we discovered
18:56 < mnemoc> not fair comparison, one is interpreter and the other plain
fat
18:56 < crazy2be> mnemoc: There's compilers for python
18:56 < lucian> mnemoc: doesn't matter much, the fact is that's what you get
18:56 < skelterjohn|work> it is a fair comparison, if you are considering
one language vs another for speed
18:56 < lucian> crazy2be: what?
18:56 < skelterjohn|work> how the language gets the speed is irrelevant
18:56 < crazy2be> but it's dynamic nature makes a lot of optimizations hard
18:56 < skelterjohn|work> language/implementation combo, that is
18:56 < crazy2be> or impossible
18:57 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.26.237.5.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined
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18:57 < xyproto> crazy2be: are you thinking of Shedskin, the Python to C++
compiler?
18:57 < crazy2be> lucian: PyPy or Psyco I think
18:57 -!- vsmatck [~smack@64-142-40-6.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #go-nuts
18:58 < lucian> crazy2be: not compiled, JITs.  and PyPy is very fast, yes.
rivals java desktop
18:58 < crazy2be> oh, not compiled, but JIT
18:58 < crazy2be> so like java then
18:58 < crazy2be> java isn't compiler either
18:58 < crazy2be> *compiled
18:58 < skelterjohn|work> i don't know why you differentiate JIT and a
compiler
18:59 < lucian> skelterjohn|work: ok, static/AOT compiler vs JIT compiler
18:59 < mnemoc> one optimizes on runtime the other doesn't
18:59 < lucian> you can't realistically AOT python code
18:59 < crazy2be> http://speed.pypy.org/
18:59 < skelterjohn|work> AOT?
18:59 < lucian> skelterjohn|work: Ahead Of Time compilation
18:59 < xyproto> I write in binary code.  The machine is my interpreter.  ;)
19:00 < lucian> anyway, all of go, hotspot and pypy are very fast, with
caveats
19:00 < crazy2be> pssh, binary is too high-level
19:00 -!- hcatlin [~hcatlin@pdpc/supporter/professional/hcatlin] has quit [Quit:
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19:00 < skelterjohn|work> i program in my circuit-CAD program, and it
compiles to a chip
19:01 < skelterjohn|work> each compilation costs me $20000
19:01 < xyproto> No, wait, I just bite holes in punchcard and make them run.
Yarr.  ;)
19:01 < skelterjohn|work> so get off my lawn
19:01 < xyproto> *punchcards
19:01 < xyproto> :P
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19:02 < xyproto> skelterjohn: about circuits, have you tried making programs
that make FPGA programs?
19:02 < crazy2be> skelterjohn: How do you debug like that?
19:03 * skelterjohn|work wonders how far he should continue the lie
19:03 < crazy2be> lol
19:03 < skelterjohn|work> xyproto: yes - and it does it with genetic
programming
19:03 < skelterjohn|work> i don't debug - the chips that work simply eat the
ones that don't
19:03 < jdahm> well I hope Go is faster than python at least :P
19:03 < xyproto> skelterjohn: :D
19:04 < skelterjohn|work> jdahm: that one is tricky, since a lot of the
python standard libs are written in C
19:04 < skelterjohn|work> while most of the go libraries are written in go
19:04 < skelterjohn|work> and it becomes a go/C comparison rather than
go/python
19:04 < skelterjohn|work> but for pure python vs pure go, go is ahead.
19:04 < jdahm> but the bridge from python to C is a little slow and
converting the types takes the most time, no?
19:04 < skelterjohn|work> i'm sure it depends on what the library is doing
19:04 < crazy2be> most of the programmer time for sure
19:04 < crazy2be> not sure about runtime
19:05 < xyproto> jdahm: in my experience, from having used both, Go is a lot
faster.  Some of the Python standard library functions are fast, but not fast
enough to outweigh the slowness of the interpreter, the moment you need something
to go quickly (and it actually involves some sort of logic, not just calling a
function).
19:05 < skelterjohn|work> go doesn't have to convert the types, but it does
have to make the jump from its special kind of stack to the "normal" one
19:06 < crazy2be> ok, fuse bindings are cool
19:06 < zozoR> well, go's for loops and number lookup is as fast as C ''
19:06 < zozoR> i suppose at least
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19:08 < crazy2be> man, so much to program, so little time
19:08 < cmike_> type faster crazy2be
19:08 < crazy2be> typing isn't the bottleneck, thinking is
19:08 < crazy2be> :P
19:09 < cmike_> shot of espresso bumps thinking up 2x for an hour or so
19:09 < xyproto> jdahm: Unless you want an even more math-like language,
like Haskell, and a small step up from C, while maintaining good speed and the
possibility to call C code, while being multi-processor and
multi-computer-friendly, I would say Go is a great choice.
19:09 < cmike_> then you get a drawdown after that
19:10 < jdahm> xyproto: yeah it looks decent (naming is a little silly, but
I might be able to get over that ;))
19:10 < zozoR> go is awesomeness
19:10 < crazy2be> Has anyone written a program to have a limited-size cache
on disk where files are removed in last-acessed order?
19:11 < zozoR> nope
19:11 < crazy2be> jdahm: SIlly, maybe.  Enforced consistency is awesome tho
19:11 < vsmatck> Generally a cache sits in front of something slow.  What
would this cache be sitting in front of?
19:11 < skelterjohn|work> any "new" convention always look silly at first
19:11 < skelterjohn|work> go's naming conventions look natural to me, now
19:11 < jdahm> yeah
19:12 < skelterjohn|work> vsmatck: I'm guessing the cache is in memory, and
it sits in front of the file system
19:12 < xyproto> the only thing I can't get over is the mandatory extra ","
at the end of lists when creating a list of strings or ints ;)
19:12 < vsmatck> skelterjohn: He said disk.
19:12 < skelterjohn|work> so he did
19:13 < crazy2be> vsmatck: If you have a bunch of files, like less files,
that need to be processed into css
19:13 < crazy2be> if you have a very large number of files, processing all
of them into css at the startup of your web server is probably not a good idea
19:13 < jdahm> xyproto: isn't that just to make the lexer have an easier
job?
19:13 < crazy2be> (less is css with added durp)
19:14 < crazy2be> it would be cool to have it just load them as needed
19:14 < xyproto> jdahm: yes, I think so.  I was told it had to do with the
optional semicolon.
19:14 < crazy2be> you could have a transparent FUSE filesystem that it would
read from to get the file, and the handler for that filesystem would attempt to
grab from the cache or regenerate the file as required
19:15 < xyproto> jdahm: and that the color of the bikeshed had been chosen,
the bikeshed painted and that it was one of the things that made Go glitter in the
night
19:15 < zozoR> xyproto, what comma at the end of list making are you talking
about?  o.o
19:15 < vsmatck> Is the css example cooked?  Hard to imagine css files would
be too large and numerous where reading them all in to memory would be a bad idea.
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> zozoR: if you separate out a list onto multiple
lines
19:15 < vsmatck> This is exactly what I do btw.
19:15 < skelterjohn|work> each line must end with a comma (even the last
one)
19:15 < xyproto> zozoR: multiple lines
19:15 < zozoR> well, isnt normal to put a comma at the end?
19:16 < xyproto> zozoR: not after the last element, when no more elements
follows
19:16 < zozoR> then end it with }?
19:16 < xyproto> zozoR: at least not in the syntax of comparable languages
19:16 < crazy2be> it would be more useful if you had a bunch of css files
and template files for thousands of different devices
19:16 < skelterjohn|work> zozoR: you could do that, but it looks awkward
19:16 < crazy2be> that were automatically generated
19:17 < zozoR> that might be why i never noticed it, cause i dont think it
looks awkward
19:17 < crazy2be> e.g.  you could have a <<button>> in your
template file, and it would become different html depending on the device and
browser
19:17 < crazy2be> mostly just different for IE :P
19:17 < skelterjohn|work> zozoR: http://pastebin.com/hXE4wQx3
19:17 < xyproto> zozoR: probably.  Oh well, the bikeshed has been painted,
etc
19:17 < crazy2be> but on mobile it would be different for like every device
19:17 < vsmatck> Ah. If you have that many I assume a human is not going to
do the specialization.  I would specialize the files when they're requested (store
a already lexed form in memory).  Parsing the css file that's already in memory
should be faster than going to disk.
19:17 < crazy2be> because they all have different capabilities
19:18 < zozoR> point taken
19:18 < zozoR> :)
19:18 < crazy2be> vsmatck: don't most OSes cache files from disk when they
have available memory?
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19:21 < crazy2be> vsmatck: When you said "this is exactly what I do", what
were you referring to?
19:22 < vsmatck> They do.  I don't know the specifics of how linux does it.
I decided to not depend on it so I use inotify to keep a in-memory cache up to
date.
19:22 < vsmatck> It's what I do in my project.  http://dyfora.com/
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19:25 < skelterjohn|work> seems neat
19:25 < skelterjohn|work> what's it for?
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19:25 < crazy2be> I like how minimal it is
19:26 < vsmatck> Minimal is what I'm going for.  :)
19:26 < skelterjohn|work> yes - i'm very much into minimalist stuff, when it
comes to web pages
19:27 < crazy2be> something like http://msn.com just makes me cringe.  So
much stuff!
19:28 < skelterjohn|work> i think it's what drew me to google products in
the first place
19:28 < skelterjohn|work> all very simple and regular
19:28 < aiju> all google products are simple?
19:28 < crazy2be> for the most part
19:28 -!- Adys [~Adys@unaffiliated/adys] has quit [Quit: Quit]
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> not all, of course
19:29 < uriel> for the most part they are a pile of turds
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> but in general
19:29 < aiju> yay android, 1/4 XML
19:29 < crazy2be> google.com is pretty simple and minimal :)
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> i don't have an android phone
19:29 < aiju> except for that black bar
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> but i do use google.com and gmail
19:29 < aiju> and that instant crap
19:29 < aiju> and ...
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> i don't like the black bar
19:29 < vsmatck> They need to make the rest of it black.  :)
19:29 * crazy2be braces for another rant
19:29 < uriel> for fucking christ sake, google 'invented' (or worse,
popularized!) AJAX!  and then they went on to create GWT
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> aiju: i don't care if it's complicated behind the
scenes
19:29 < skelterjohn|work> i just want a simple interface
19:30 < zozoR> aiju is always angry about stuff
19:30 < zozoR> what is ok in your world
19:30 < zozoR> : |
19:30 < aiju> only about retarded stuff
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> plan9port
19:30 < uriel> skelterjohn|work: I don't give a fuck about the black bar, I
feel sick to think xmpp is involved when I use gchat
19:30 < aiju> nah
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> uriel: see, i could care less about what techs are
used under the hood
19:30 < skelterjohn|work> but the black bar irritates me
19:30 < crazy2be> xmpp is gross, but it works and people use it
19:30 < uriel> skelterjohn|work: I care a lot, because the stench spreads
far from under the hood
19:31 < aiju> xmpp is good because it is TEH STANDARD
19:31 < uriel> aiju: thousands of standards actually
19:31 < skelterjohn|work> i don't even know (or care) what it is
19:31 < skelterjohn|work> web tech is a pile of spaghetti anyway
19:31 < crazy2be> computers are a pile of spaghetti
19:31 < aiju> not spaghetti
19:31 < uriel> skelterjohn|work: that is the sad part, xmpp is not even web
tech, but they fucked it all up with web-turds (like xml)
19:31 < uriel> anyway, all this is way offtopic
19:32 < aiju> web tech is a pile of intestines
19:32 < uriel> more like the inside of the intestines
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19:32 < crazy2be> irc is simpler but doesn't support a lot of stuff
19:32 < uriel> irc actually works
19:32 < ment> like animated smileys
19:32 < crazy2be> like statuses, away/busy/available
19:32 < aiju> irc has away support?
19:32 < ment> /away
19:32 < crazy2be> Not really
19:32 < aiju> and since when are statuses meaningful
19:33 < uriel> and irc supports things that xmpp has not been able to make
work reliably in >10 years of development and hundreds and hundreds of
standards specifications (and I am not exagerating!)
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19:33 < kergoth> irc away is pretty useless, though, since no one is likely
to notice.  most useful to change nicks instead
19:33 < uriel> like decent group chat and file transsfers, two things that
still are a joke in xmpp
19:34 < uriel> kergoth: nobody is likely to notice xmpp away messages either
19:34 < crazy2be> I transfer files all the time
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19:34 < uriel> *everyone* I know misuses, abuses and ignores xmpp
away/status
19:34 < crazy2be> but it never works if we aren't using the same OS and same
chat program
19:34 < uriel> anyway, this is all offtopic
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19:34 < crazy2be> someone should make jmp
19:35 < crazy2be> JSON Messaging Protocol
19:35 < uriel> crazy2be: might be because there are a dozen xmpp specs for
file transfer, each more insane than the previous, and nobody apparently has been
able to implement any of them correctly
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> should just run scp over xmpp
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> that would make everything easier
19:35 < uriel> the whole xmpp stack is a disgrace
19:35 < skelterjohn|work> and standardized
19:35 < crazy2be> they should use YAML inside their xml tags
19:35 < crazy2be> make it easier to read
19:35 < aiju> haha
19:35 < uriel> crazy2be: HAHAH
19:37 < crazy2be> I mean, if "Joe Six Pack" is looking at his packet dumps,
we want to make sure they are as readable as possible, right?  That's why we're
using xml in the first place, right?
19:38 < uriel> crazy2be: that went right into the cat-v.org fortunes file:
http://fortunes.cat-v.org/cat-v/
19:39 -!- chomp [~chomp@c-67-186-35-69.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #go-nuts
19:40 < crazy2be> "ssh, the emacs of network protocols"
19:40 < crazy2be> :D
19:40 < zozoR> :D
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19:41 < zozoR> "Ruby on Rails, the PHP of a new generation.  -- beefhooked"
19:42 -!- Sep102 [~Sep102@c-71-227-179-131.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined
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19:42 < ampleyfly> it's funny because it's a language for web related stuff
and also newer than php
19:42 < zozoR> ruby eats your soul and what php does to you isnt describable
in the english language
19:44 < crazy2be> php isn't *that* bad, just not very good :P
19:44 -!- eikenberry [~jae@67.137.34.202] has quit [Quit: End of line.]
19:44 < crazy2be> it's slow and really doesn't work that well
19:44 -!- kergoth [~kergoth@ip24-251-173-232.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host
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19:44 < uriel> php might be slow, but NOTHING in this universe is slower
than Ruby
19:45 < crazy2be> php is slow because it is re-parsed and re-run on each
page hit
19:45 < uriel> Ruby's startup time alone is longer than the age of the
universe
19:45 < zozoR> php looks like encrypted matrix
19:45 < zozoR> : |
19:45 < crazy2be> which is just a brain-dead design decision
19:45 < uriel> crazy2be: that is the very least of php's problems
19:46 < crazy2be> "
19:46 < crazy2be> and the most prolific scurity dev quit because nobody
listened to him
19:46 < crazy2be> about all the horrible shit he found
19:46 < crazy2be> "
19:48 < zozoR> haha
19:53 < magn3ts> could the google prediction api be used to tag small
snippets of text as being related to pop culture, technology, politics, etc?
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19:55 < crazy2be> I like the rebooting with dbus+hal snippit
19:56 < str1ngs> hals dead bro
19:56 < aiju> what's replaced it
19:56 < crazy2be> nothing
19:56 < aiju> Frankenstein?
19:56 < crazy2be> it was a pointless wrapper
19:56 < crazy2be> Also I like this:
assert(assert(assert(assert(assert(assert(1)))))) /* check for cosmic radiation */
19:56 -!- alehorst [~alehorst@177.40.53.236] has joined #go-nuts
19:56 < aiju> "HAL, open the CD drive"
19:57 < aiju> "I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that"
19:58 -!- |Craig| [~|Craig|@panda3d/entropy] has quit [Quit: |Craig|]
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20:06 < zozoR> "Ruby.  Take nicely formatted Python and vomit all over it
with random characters."
20:06 < zozoR> xD
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20:51 < crazy2be> <3 io.Writer & io.Reader
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21:19 < zozoR> according to TIOBE, lots of people still use visual basic
21:19 < zozoR> isnt that horrifying : |
21:19 < crazy2be> lots of jobs for it
21:20 < crazy2be> and php
21:21 < zozoR> cant somebody mix a nice webframework together to boost go's
reputation?  :D
21:21 < crazy2be> zozoR: I'm trying :P
21:22 < crazy2be> but I imagine hosting is the bigger issue
21:22 < ment> let's just add j[glc] target that would compile into
javascript
21:22 < ment> then you can run go programs in Node.js
21:22 < jnwhiteh> why is hosting an issue?  host it on GAE
21:23 < zozoR> there got to be some hosting systems that allow you to run
"scripts" or executables
21:23 < crazy2be> jnwhiteh: Then you have to use all the gae apis
21:23 < jnwhiteh> crazy2be: is that that much of a limiting factor in this
case?
21:24 < jnwhiteh> it restricts you to their data store, not much more
21:25 < crazy2be> what is the best way to read by line with go?  It used to
be ioutil.ReadAll() then bytes.Split(), does that still apply?
21:25 < jnwhiteh> there is a linereader
21:25 < jnwhiteh> just use that
21:25 < crazy2be> where?
21:25 < jnwhiteh> err, they folded it into bufio
21:25 < zozoR> i think the appengine is a limiting factor..  but that is
mostly because every time i try to figure out how it works i give up
21:25 < jnwhiteh> so bufio.Reader
21:25 < jnwhiteh> has a ReadLine method
21:26 < jnwhiteh> http://golang.org/pkg/bufio/#Reader.ReadLine
21:26 < crazy2be> that doesn't return the full line sometimes :/
21:26 < jnwhiteh> but it tells you when that happens..
21:26 < crazy2be> yeah, just a bit more of a pain to work around
21:27 < zozoR> it isnt python, work arounds are to be expected :P
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21:31 < crazy2be> *shudder*
21:31 < crazy2be> I wrote a simple python script to put events on a google
calendar after scraping them from some website
21:31 < crazy2be> I had workarounds everywhere for the crappy google
calendar apis
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21:34 < zozoR> anyway, goodnight
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21:34 < crazy2be> zozoR: goodnight
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22:04 < crazy2be> darn infinite loops
22:04 < crazy2be> the stack just keeps growing...  and growing...
22:04 < crazy2be> until you have no memory left
22:05 < crazy2be> can I limit the stack size somehow?
22:07 < ampleyfly> are those recursive calls?
22:07 < crazy2be> yeah
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22:16 < crazy2be> wait, does break in a switch in a loop break out of the
switch or the loop?
22:16 < crazy2be> ah
22:16 < crazy2be> ok
22:16 < crazy2be> that explains it
22:17 < crazy2be> readable spec++
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22:55 < xyproto> today I continued to a label for the very first time
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23:09 < IanWizard> Is there any easier way to get a go system setup, rather
than cloning the repo and such.
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23:16 < pharris> IanWizard: apt-get install golang if you're on Debian sid.
23:16 < pharris> I think there's a PPA for Ubuntuers, but I don't use
Ubuntu.
23:17 < pharris> IanWizard: Or http://code.google.com/p/gomingw/ if you're
on Windows.
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23:19 < angasule> pharris: nice, when did golang get into main?  I have been
using gcc-go
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23:19 < pharris> My memory is terrible, but IIRC it was 3-6 weeks ago.
23:20 < angasule> ah, I was mired in a node.js project then
23:21 < IanWizard> pharris, I looked for a PPA, but didn't see one, I'll
look again.
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23:22 < IanWizard> pharris, angasule, is there any draw back to using gcc
over the "stock" version?
23:22 < pharris> IanWizard: https://launchpad.net/~gophers/+archive/go
23:22 < angasule> IanWizard: gcc-go doesn't work with cgo I believe, and I
don't think it includes gofmt (which I love)
23:23 < angasule> I'm using gcc-go but I also manually installed google's go
to have gofmt
23:23 < pharris> IanWizard: In general, "stock" go is more efficient with
lots of goroutines (gcc always creates an OS thread for each, so far) and gccgo is
more efficient on straight-line code (since it has the whole gcc back-end
optimizing)
23:24 < angasule> I was messing with gcc-go to get go code to call C, then C
code calling go
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23:28 < IanWizard> k, thanks guys
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23:38 < IanWizard> say, is there anyway to run go code as a script?  like
D's dmd -run
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23:40 < pharris> IanWizard: Not built-in, but there are a couple of 3rd
party things to do that.  "gorun" and "goscript", possibly others.
23:41 < IanWizard> pharris, ok, thanks :(
23:41 < pharris> https://github.com/ijt/goscript
23:41 < vsmatck> IanWizard: I proposed adding it to the language and was
shot down.  :)
23:42 < IanWizard> between D, Go, and some Python, I think we've got the
allstart lang team of the new age :)
23:42 < IanWizard> vsmatck, figures, Google sucks
23:42 < IanWizard> but at the same time, they're the most wonderful Inc in
the world.
23:42 < IanWizard> Ahh,
23:43 < vsmatck> The reasoning I was given is that people should use
"runners".  Like a program where you invoke the *.go file as the first parameter.
I proposed that go programs ignore #!  at start of file.
23:43 < IanWizard> I can't wait until I'm a billionair, and can buy digital
mars, and make my own Go / D / Python / whatever else, be all, end all lang
23:43 < pharris> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/gorun
23:44 < IanWizard> vsmatck, the shebang?  I'm a bit confused, but I've got
to go.  I'll be back l8r
23:44 < vsmatck> kk
23:44 < IanWizard> (that seems like a good idea, use #!/usr/bin/goscript or
something)
23:45 < vsmatck> D has that feature.  I was using D for a while before I
started using Go.
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--- Log closed Wed Jul 06 00:00:19 2011