--- Log opened Mon Jul 11 00:00:56 2011
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00:35 < tildeleb> test
00:35 < exch> test
00:35 < brandini> ack
00:41 < tildeleb> yea, sorry about that
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00:47 < Tekerson> Is it possible to have exported members in an interface
instead of methods?  I seem to end up with lots of {sg}etters just because I want
to use an interface.
00:49 < nicka> They need to be uppercase don't they?
00:49 < nicka> oh on an interface
00:50 < Tekerson> yeh, on an interface.
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00:51 < nicka> Well I don't think so
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00:52 < Tekerson> yeah, I didn't think so either.  I think it would make
sense though?
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00:57 < jlaffaye> exp/template <3
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00:58 < jessta> Tekerson: nope, no reason for it.  If you're putting lots of
set/get in your interfaces then you should rethink your design
00:59 < jessta> interfaces only describe behaviour, not structure
01:03 < Tekerson> mm..  probably right, I can likely just get rid of most of
my interfaces and use the struct pointer directly
01:03 < brandini> heh, so I'm going through the follow up steps for the wiki
tutorial and I can't seem to make the [ asdf ] turn into a link :)
01:04 < brandini> regex's never were my strength anyhow, but dang do I feel
confused
01:05 < jessta> Tekerson: interfaces in Go should be small, only a few
methods that describe a behaviour
01:07 < Tekerson> that's probably true of most languages that have them,
they just get misused I guess.
01:08 < Tekerson> not having to explicitly state "this imlpements this
interface" should help with that though.
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01:43 < mcfuzz> is there a way to create a reflect.Value that is a pointer
to the value of another reflect.Value?
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01:48 < mcfuzz> i can see that one might say something to the effect of...
ptrval = reflect.ValueOf(reflect.PtrTo(v.Type()))...  But then to set the value of
the pointer it looks like i need to get into some kind of alchemy with the
"unsafe" package, which I know little about.
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02:26 < skelterjohn> ptrval := reflect.ValueOf(&v)
02:26 < skelterjohn> nothing tricky
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02:31 < mcfuzz> then ptrval has type *reflect.Value
02:31 < mcfuzz> I wanted something else
02:33 < mcfuzz> if v is a reflect.Value, and v.Type().Name() is "Blah".
Then I want ptrval.Type().Name() to be "*Blah".  And I want ptrval.Elem() to be a
value identical to v
02:33 < mcfuzz> any I think i found it
02:33 < mcfuzz> ptrval := v.Addr()
02:34 < mcfuzz> thanks tho, skelterjohn
02:38 < mcfuzz> I guess that is not how Name works with pointers...
02:38 < mcfuzz> but that was more to illustrate my point
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03:07 < angasule> hmm, I have a select { case op, ok = <-user.Handler:
but gofmt complains about the ,ok ?
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03:28 < angasule> ah, crap
03:28 < angasule> I have an old gofmt in the PATH :-)
03:30 < mcfuzz> >_< that just happened to me when I updated my macmini
03:30 < mcfuzz> like, "why is goinstall complaining about a standard
library???"
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03:31 < angasule> it was pretty obvious after building succeeded :-)
03:32 < mcfuzz> yea, just takes a second to scratch your head and say "wtf?!
oh..."
03:37 < angasule> I really can't tell you how much I like gofmt...  no more
inserting spaces and stuff to make function calls more readable, etc, I can type
it in dirty and it'll look right
03:39 < mcfuzz> yea, i'm pretty lazy about it though.  I need some git
commit hook that calls it automatically.
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03:39 < mcfuzz> a saw a mercurial one, but don't know about a git one
03:40 < mcfuzz> I saw*
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03:41 < angasule> oh, I have a vim command that runs it, so I run it a lot
while editing code
03:41 < mcfuzz> oh, could you paste it?
03:41 < angasule> it doubles as a quick syntax checker
03:41 < angasule> sure, one sec
03:42 < mcfuzz> cool, thanks!
03:42 < angasule> nmap <F10> mo:%!gofmt<CR>g`ozz
03:42 < angasule> it's far from ideal, though
03:42 < angasule> it maps F10 in normal mode,
03:42 < mcfuzz> right, that much i can parse ;)
03:43 < angasule> oh, ok, cool, I can explain it all if you need
03:43 < angasule> I really should make it work better when it finds errors
03:43 < mcfuzz> haha, no need for now
03:43 < angasule> I just read the first error, hit undo and fix it, since I
pretty much gofmt after every line I write heh
03:43 < angasule> :w
03:43 < angasule> sorry
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03:44 < mcfuzz> huh, so it will dupm stuff in the text field?
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03:44 < mcfuzz> by text field i mean main vim editing frame....
03:44 < angasule> it'll dump your current file to gofmt and replace it with
gofmt's output
03:44 < adu> hi all
03:44 < angasule> if there are no errorrs, you get nice code
03:44 < angasule> hi adu
03:45 < angasule> if there are errors, all our text is replaced by the error
output (UGLY!)
03:45 < adu> angasule: well, so it code with errors
03:45 < mcfuzz> oh ok
03:45 < adu> s/it/is/
03:46 < mcfuzz> sounds good enough.  i'll just set the options how i like em
and give it a whirl.
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03:47 < mcfuzz> thanks, angasule
03:47 < angasule> np
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03:48 < angasule> also, the final zz centres you on the current line...
there should be a better way of making everything look the same
03:50 < mcfuzz> ahh
03:50 < mcfuzz> seems pretty good
03:52 < mcfuzz> does seem kind of hard to tell what is changing though
03:52 < angasule> well, gofmt seems to be very safe
03:53 < mcfuzz> true, its not really a big deal
03:55 < str1ngs> there is a builtin vim function in $GOROOT/misc/vim
03:55 < str1ngs> :Fmt
03:56 < mcfuzz> haha, oh?
03:56 < str1ngs> does everything
03:57 < str1ngs> nmap <leader>f :Fmt<cr>
03:57 < mcfuzz> \em looking for options
03:57 < mcfuzz> err...
03:57 < str1ngs> let mapleader = ","
03:57 < mcfuzz> i suck at irc
03:58 < str1ngs> I normally symlink them to ~/.vim/??  so they stay updated
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03:59 < mcfuzz> hmm, how do i change the options of :Fmt?
04:00 < mcfuzz> by hacking their file?
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04:01 < str1ngs> probably just add your flags to line 20
04:01 < str1ngs> I use the defaults myself
04:02 < mcfuzz> i'm somewhat on the fence lately, but i still prefer to
expand my tabs
04:02 < mcfuzz> i don't like tabs in the middle of lines, tabbed indents are
ok
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04:03 < str1ngs> in that case your work flow would be different
04:03 < crazy2be> psh vim
04:04 < crazy2be> :P
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04:05 < mcfuzz> well instead of enforcing my own weird tab/space scheme on
myself i just use spaces =\
04:06 < crazy2be> I use whatever gofmt gives me
04:06 < crazy2be> :P
04:07 < crazy2be> well actually whatever my editor gives me by default
04:07 < crazy2be> which is usually pretty close to gofmt
04:08 < mcfuzz> what is this magical editor that makes you shrug off vim?
04:08 < crazy2be> I personally use kate...  I don't really understand the
attraction of vim
04:08 < str1ngs> ed
04:09 < crazy2be> if I want to use console or command-based tools, I press
F12 for guake terminal
04:09 < crazy2be> F12 again hides it
04:09 < mcfuzz> ahh, kate.  I've heard some good stuff
04:09 < crazy2be> so I'll often be typing, wonder where something is
defined, F12 grep FunctionName * F12
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04:10 < angasule> I just find normal editors very slow to move around and
edit
04:10 < crazy2be> And I can open more files from the commandline by just
using the kate command as long as it's running
04:10 < crazy2be> e.g.  kate foo.go
04:10 < crazy2be> just opens it in the running instance
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04:10 < crazy2be> angasule: To each his own :).  I find commandline editors
the same way
04:11 < str1ngs> vim can do that
04:11 < angasule> magn3ts: how do you work?  :-P
04:11 < mcfuzz> yes, vim can do these things.  but there is no real need to
argue about it
04:11 < mcfuzz> i think they are both fairly full featured
04:11 < crazy2be> although I would reccomend guake to anyone who uses the
console a lot
04:12 < angasule> mcfuzz: very often technical arguments are useful, as long
as it's civil
04:12 < magn3ts> angasule, I like this channel, so I won't say the mean
things I normally do (not really mean).  But, if I had a dime for every person
that asked that, I could pelt whoever asked me last :P
04:12 < mcfuzz> yea, i use visor on my mac
04:12 < mcfuzz> very similar to quake
04:12 < angasule> crazy2be: I use yakuake, same thing (also assigned to F12)
04:12 < crazy2be> it's really nice to have a dedicated shortcut to switch
in/out of commandline mode
04:12 < crazy2be> angasule: is that the kde version?
04:12 < angasule> magn3ts: :D
04:12 < angasule> crazy2be: yeap
04:12 < crazy2be> yeah I use that on my kde box
04:12 < angasule> crazy2be: not to mention have it in every desktop
04:13 < crazy2be> it's just such a useful window that having a dedicated
shortcut is awesome
04:13 < mcfuzz> angasule: text editors are such a matter of opinion though.
Its nearly impossible to convert people.  I just asked because i was curious
04:13 < angasule> crazy2be: does kate have macros that you can record?
04:13 < crazy2be> personally, I think any text editor will do the job well
enough
04:14 < crazy2be> angasule: not that i've used, but it's got extensions and
stuff
04:14 < crazy2be> there may be one
04:14 < angasule> crazy2be: notepad?  :-)
04:14 < crazy2be> ...as long as it has auto-indent
04:14 < angasule> haha it doesn't have search and replace, I think
04:14 < crazy2be> that is the single biggest advancement in editors
04:15 < zozoR> i think kate is a bit laggy
04:15 < zozoR> wonder why though
04:15 < crazy2be> also like gedit has a modal search and replace dialog box
04:15 < crazy2be> == super annoying
04:15 < angasule> zozoR: you're not running it inside gnome or something
like that, right?  kate is really fast for me
04:15 < angasule> well, last I tried it
04:15 < crazy2be> zozoR: It's really fast for me in gnome even
04:15 < crazy2be> sometimes a bit slow to start up compared to say vim
04:16 < crazy2be> but really fast for a kde program anyway :P
04:16 < zozoR> i use kde
04:16 < angasule> startup is almost never a problem
04:17 < zozoR> gocode doesnt work for kate, so i use eclipse anyway ^^
04:17 < zozoR> but sometimes its just easier to open kate
04:17 < crazy2be> angasule: I think it's because i'm on gnome
04:17 < crazy2be> so it has to load the kde libs
04:17 < zozoR> but it feels heavy
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04:17 < crazy2be> heavy compared to...  eclipse???
04:18 < crazy2be> ecplise is like a car
04:18 < crazy2be> with no engine
04:18 < crazy2be> but...  eh
04:19 < crazy2be> I don't really like IDEs
04:20 < crazy2be> anyway this is rarely a productive discussion
04:20 < crazy2be> :P
04:20 < crazy2be> to each his own
04:21 < crazy2be> anyway night all
04:21 < crazy2be> work tomorrow :/
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04:21 < angasule> http://bit.ly/oaauOB <-- eclipse
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04:30 < angasule> hi cmike_
04:30 < cmike_> hey
04:30 < cmike_> anything new tonight?
04:31 < angasule> I'm a putz, so no, nothing new as far as I know :-)
04:32 < cmike_> building anything good?
04:35 < zozoR> cmike = cmake :D
04:35 < cmike_> i dont know why i have a _ on the end of my name
04:35 < cmike_> i registered it without looking so now I have to use it
04:35 < cmike_> dont' feel like registering my nick again
04:40 < angasule> cmike_: coding an irc server, it's making wonders for my
knowledge of the language
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04:41 < cmike_> thats cool
04:43 < cmike_> i feel the best way to learn something is to do a project
04:43 < cmike_> you learn so much more solving the little problems that come
with a project
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05:09 < adu> indeed
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05:44 < chadkouse> anyone awake?  I'm a go n00b with a hopefully very simple
quesiton.
05:44 < chadkouse> trying to read from a chan
05:44 < chadkouse> err..  receive from a chan
05:44 < chadkouse> and trying to do it non blocking
05:44 < chadkouse> but it seems to block anyway
05:44 < str1ngs> use select if you want not block
05:45 < chadkouse> stuff, more = <-toSend, true
05:45 < chadkouse> I've forked an older project..  is that like an older
technique ?
05:45 < Namegduf> It's removed synctax.
05:46 < Namegduf> *syntax
05:46 < chadkouse> Namegduf: I figured as much...  thanks I'll go try a
select
05:46 < Namegduf> In order to permit stuff, closed = <-toSend
05:46 < chadkouse> str1ngs: thanks
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05:48 < go^lang> how to check channel closed before send to it?
05:48 < chadkouse> *that was easy*
05:48 < jessta> chadkouse: you might also want to think about why it's
non-blocking, it's often better to block if you're only dealing with one channel
05:48 < jessta> go^lang: you can't
05:49 < chadkouse> this is blocking to receive the first thing to do, then
trying to receive as much as possible non-blocking before just returning from this
function.
05:49 < jessta> go^lang: which is why you shouldn't have more than one
sender on a channel
05:49 < chadkouse> jessta: ^^
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05:50 < go^lang> -_-!!!
05:54 < go^lang> why need replace closed function?
05:54 < go^lang> closed good for my!
05:55 < Namegduf> Because the closed function was wrong, always.
05:55 < angasule> thread safety
05:55 < Namegduf> Using it had a race condition.
05:55 < Namegduf> So it was removed.
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05:55 < Namegduf> You couldn't check closed() then do something, because it
could have been closed, then read from by another goroutine since.
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06:00 < go^lang> thanks
06:03 < chadkouse> did fmt.Sprintf change as well?
06:04 < str1ngs> godoc fmt Sprintf and see
06:05 < chadkouse> that's cool didn't know about godoc :)
06:05 < chadkouse> this is day 1 for me..  really almost hour 1 :)
06:07 < chadkouse> str1ngs: it appears it hasn't changed, but this doesn't
work right (substitutes the first item in "format" with all of "a"):
http://pastebin.com/Rq4EFPtP
06:10 < chadkouse> http://pastebin.com/V1A9FwE9 <-- shows the output
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06:11 < str1ngs> a...
06:11 < str1ngs> cmd := fmt.Sprintf(format, a...)
06:11 < chadkouse> str1ngs: ah ok thanks.
06:12 < str1ngs> that part has changed
06:12 < chadkouse> str1ngs: how could I tell that from the docs ?
06:12 < chadkouse> if you don't mind
06:12 < str1ngs> chadkouse: gofix -h will list most major api changes
06:13 < str1ngs> but not always, so you just kinda fix them as you get hit
with them
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06:13 < chadkouse> str1ngs: thanks
06:14 < chadkouse> str1ngs: I'm guessing this was not so much a change in
sprintf but a change in the language spec
06:15 < chadkouse> I think I found it here:
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Passing_arguments_to_..._parameters
06:15 < str1ngs> yes more a change language spec.
06:16 < chadkouse> thanks for you're help..  I'm off and running now :)
06:16 < str1ngs> np
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08:39 < uriel>
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/golang-dev/GDfea2qcMpM/H7DPP_rEGtMJ
08:40 < uriel> YES!  container.Vector is on its way out!
08:40 < uriel> since append was added it has caused more confusion and
over-complicated code than anything else
08:41 < mcfuzz> i don't think container/vector is that bad
08:42 < uriel> mcfuzz: other than to confuse people, what good is it for?
08:42 < mcfuzz> haha
08:43 < mcfuzz> it is alright for its insert and cut methods
08:43 < mcfuzz> imo
08:43 < uriel> I'm not too convinced, there are idioms to do that with
slices too which are pretty simple
08:44 < mcfuzz> there are...
08:44 < vsmatck> A new user coming from C++ will want to use
container/vector when he should be using a slice.  Ask me how I know this.  :)
08:44 < mcfuzz> i dunno.  I think it can make some code look cleaner as long
as you know what you're doing
08:45 < mcfuzz> haha, yes.  I experienced this too
08:45 < mcfuzz> and then I read the language spec
08:45 < aiju> i experienced that too
08:45 < aiju> but i think that was before append was added
08:45 < mcfuzz> ahh yea, i did just start coding Go a few months ago
08:45 < vsmatck> Seems like a good idea to get rid of it.
08:45 < mcfuzz> so it was there when I started
08:46 < aiju> i was like "fuck this sucks, i'm going back to C"
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08:53 < mpl> uriel: someone should post a canonical version on how to do
that (achieve vector's features with slices) on that wiki with samples of code.
so that anyone can be redirected to it.  good examples/doc is one of the key to
good usage of the lang :)
08:54 < uriel> mpl: I remember somebody posted that to
http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/ but can't find it now
08:54 < uriel> found it:
http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/eh3gh/slice_support_and_containervector/
08:58 < uriel> somebody with write access please add that to the wiki
08:59 < mpl> hmm, it seems even the wiki itself is not linked from
golang.org :/
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09:02 < sqweek> there's a wiki?
09:02 < uriel> yes
09:03 < uriel> kind of anyway
09:03 < uriel> http://code.google.com/p/go-wiki/
09:04 < mpl> uriel: afaics it's not linked from cat-v either, so no wonder
ppl don't know about it.
09:04 < sqweek> cheers :)
09:04 < sqweek> been awhile, how've you both been?
09:05 < mpl> indeed.  been busy playing with go.  :) how about you?  still
pianoing?
09:06 < sqweek> yep, studying hard this year
09:06 < aiju> does someone know whether appengine supports async
communication between client and server part yet?
09:06 < mpl> sqweek: cool.  do you intend to come to iwp9 (madrid) this
year?
09:07 < uriel> added a link to http://go-lang.cat-v.org
09:07 < mpl> uriel: well done, thx.
09:08 < sqweek> mpl: nope
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09:09 < mpl> sqweek: too bad.
09:10 < sqweek> anyway, i've been trying to build go-sdl on windows but cgo
gives me a bunch of errors like sdl.go:33: error: enumerator value for
`__cgo_enum__0' not integer constant
09:12 < aiju> hahhahae
09:12 < aiju> canonical uses Go?
09:12 < aiju> wtf?
09:13 < mpl> aiju: yeah I think in particular the guy doing the mongodb
stuff is @canonical
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10:48 * jnwhiteh sighs at the "Go ignores all academic research" threads
10:48 < jnwhiteh> Its just such a bad argument, it makes me sad
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10:58 < vegai> academic research ignores reality?
10:59 < jnwhiteh> =)
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11:47 < vikstrom> I think it's basically down to flexibility vs
predictability and i'd choose predictability any day...
11:47 < aiju> 12:55 * jnwhiteh sighs at the "Go ignores all academic
research" threads
11:48 < aiju> what do they miss?
11:48 < aiju> has academic research shown that java is the best and fastest
language ever?
11:48 < aiju> i wouldn't be surprised if it did
11:49 < vikstrom> nah, i think they want to describe all languages as
subsets of lisp
11:49 < vikstrom> :-)
11:49 < aiju> haha
11:49 < aiju> of course they want
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11:50 < jnwhiteh> aiju: http://acooke.org/cute/GoRocksHow0.html is the one
I'm referring to
11:50 < jnwhiteh> mainly
11:51 < vikstrom> i read it
11:51 < Namegduf> "I don't know of a good explanation"
11:51 < Namegduf> I can think of several.
11:51 < jnwhiteh> he makes some points..  but its just a religious argument
11:51 < vikstrom> yes
11:52 < aiju> fuck
11:52 < Namegduf> Off the top of my head: Design in basically every current
language is OO, so Go is a mindscrew to them
11:52 < aiju> what the fuck is hetalking about
11:52 < vikstrom> the only thing that matters at the end of the day is if it
get the job done and if it does it well
11:52 < aiju> First chapter, you're going to be recursing.  Sure, when you
start, it's a
11:52 < aiju> little confusing.  But then it "clicks" and you see how it can
help you make
11:52 < aiju> programs cleaner.
11:52 < Namegduf> By current, I mean, current and high level.
11:52 < aiju> big disagree, to start
11:52 < jnwhiteh> I don't know but in every single post on reddit about go,
someone shows up and talks about how "The language designers have ignored decades
of academic research"
11:52 < aiju> Functional programming languages have hammered
11:52 < aiju> out all the tiny details.  It's easy to get this right.  It's
easy to
11:52 < aiju> implement.  Yet Go fucked it up.
11:52 < aiju> good lord
11:53 < jnwhiteh> sorry I've ruined your day =)
11:53 < aiju> You can't use recursion much anyway, because Go
11:53 < aiju> doesn't guarantee efficient tail calls.  Which, again, is just
dumb.  There
11:53 < aiju> would have been no great implementation cost - so simple
ignorance means that
11:53 < aiju> you can't use Go to write code in a certain style.
11:53 < aiju> HAHAHAHAHA
11:53 < aiju> now that's a fucking dumb statement
11:53 < jnwhiteh> wait, you mean in order to call a function recursively I
have to name it?  say it ain't so!
11:53 < aiju> he obviously has not even thought about how compiled code
works
11:53 < Namegduf> No
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11:54 < Namegduf> He's saying there's no reason to not optimise tail calls
but ignorance
11:54 < jnwhiteh> in a functional programming language, I agree
11:54 < aiju> there is no efficient way to do tail call optimisation in a
general manner with the Linux or the Go calling convention
11:54 < jnwhiteh> but that's not Go
11:54 < aiju> period
11:54 < Namegduf> Which 1) Betrays a startling lack of imagination 2) Is
fairly stupid 3) Is fairly insulting
11:54 < vikstrom> aiju: why would that be?
11:54 < Namegduf> There's also no reason TO do it.
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11:55 < Namegduf> Because it's equivalent to code written just a little
differently.
11:55 < aiju> vikstrom: you'd have to do lots of fornication
11:55 < Namegduf> Also Go isn't about magic.
11:55 < Namegduf> And it would be magic.
11:55 < vikstrom> aiju: you can in other compiled langs, so why not in go?
11:55 < aiju> vikstrom: which language?
11:55 < aiju> note that gcc
11:55 < vikstrom> erlnag for instance
11:55 < vikstrom> which compiles to bitcode
11:55 < aiju> which has every optimization humanly possible
11:56 < vikstrom> *erlang
11:56 < Namegduf> As for the general case of those people, I think they feel
that the movement to massive feature bloated leviathans has academic proof that
it's awesome
11:56 < aiju> does not tail-call-optimize in the general case
11:56 < Namegduf> To make them feel good about it
11:57 < Namegduf> There's also the functional crowd who really needs to fuck
off.  No, Go doesn't have everything to make it awesome for your style.  It's not
supposed to.  Compare it against languages people actually use, thank you.
11:57 < Namegduf> They're welcome to think functional is better, but there's
no reason to complain about Go in paritcular.
11:57 < aiju> people like functional style because it's more complex
11:57 < aiju> i can think of no other explanation
11:58 < aiju> it's slower, harder to read and more bugprone
11:58 < vikstrom> i love functional programming.  I also love Go. I don't
see why i can't have both.
11:58 < vikstrom> aiju: its actually less bugprone
11:58 < Namegduf> You can, but if you want both at once you are going to
have to face that Go isn't really optimised around that and doesn't have all the
fancy innovations for functional languages
11:58 < vikstrom> aiju: slower, probably
11:58 < aiju> not in my experience
11:59 < Namegduf> It's not a weakness, it's just not a design goal, I think
11:59 < vikstrom> aiju: harder to read, if you don't understand the
language, of course
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11:59 < Namegduf> Lesse.
11:59 < vikstrom> its down to taste
11:59 < Namegduf> This author doesn't know what goroutines are.
11:59 < Namegduf> He obviously doesn't.
11:59 < Namegduf> He says they're "real threads, not coroutines"
11:59 < aiju> it's just like the microkernel crowd
12:00 < aiju> a bunch of guys who have read too many papers
12:00 < vikstrom> Namegduf: they are if you use the gcc frontend, maybe
thats all he have tried
12:01 < Namegduf> vikstrom: Then he's a moron for using the crippled version
of goroutines and assuming they're normal
12:01 < vikstrom> Namegduf: that might be it
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12:04 < aiju> he thinks recursion is the best thing ever and no one can
seriously doubt it
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12:04 < aiju> i think that's enough to ignore the rest
12:05 < vikstrom> recursion is nice, but it has its limits, you dont want to
use recursion when writing an emulator for instance
12:05 < aiju> i basically recurse only when i have a recursive datastructure
to begin with
12:05 < vikstrom> an excellent use-case
12:06 < aiju> making sense out of cleverly recursing code is horribly fu
12:06 < aiju> +n
12:06 < vikstrom> i never use recursion in go
12:06 < aiju> it's just like goto
12:07 < vikstrom> well, i'm used to think in recursion, so i seldom have
problems with it, but of course, a loop is simpler
12:07 < vikstrom> yup, goto is horrible, if used wrongly
12:08 < vikstrom> its necessary though for some performance critical
use-cases though
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12:08 < vikstrom> -1 though
12:08 < aiju> that's one thing the COBOL guys got right
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12:08 < aiju> your uber-clever general features turn code into a horrible
mess
12:08 < vikstrom> i think all minimalistic languages have that problem
12:10 < jnwhiteh> what do you think of the first response to his criticism?
12:10 < jnwhiteh> is the micro/macro language distinction reasonable or
useful?
12:10 < Namegduf> "interesting"
12:11 < vikstrom> i think it is a good reply
12:11 < Namegduf> I think I largely agree.
12:12 < vikstrom> time for lunch..
12:13 < aiju> the micro/macro distinction has the same problems as with
kernels
12:13 < jnwhiteh> *nod*
12:13 < jnwhiteh> I agree, it seemed a bit odd, but at least it helped him
get some points across.
12:13 < aiju> everything real is somewhere in between
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12:15 < Namegduf> Or, alternatively, everything real is macro
12:16 < Namegduf> And everything theory is micro
12:16 < aiju> not really
12:16 < aiju> COBOL is closest to a macro language
12:17 < aiju> being able to define functions is a step into the micro
direction
12:21 < skelterjohn> wth is a micro/macro language?
12:21 < jnwhiteh> read the post, he explains how he's definining them
12:22 * Namegduf sends him a correction on the goroutine thing, with an
explanation.  A long one.
12:22 < Namegduf> But polite one!
12:23 < Namegduf> He admits it's better than every non-functional language
ever
12:23 < Namegduf> So that's something
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12:43 < vikstrom> Namegduf: Well, he's obviously a functional programmer and
colored by it
12:44 < vikstrom> I'm a functional programmer myself and use it almost on a
daily basis, but i wouldn't use it as a systems languages
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13:17 < uriel> Namegduf: nice correction
13:17 < uriel> very nice
13:19 < vikstrom> agreed
13:20 < mpl> what's the post url already?
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13:22 < Namegduf> Thanks.
13:22 < vikstrom> mpl: http://www.acooke.org/cute/GoRocksHow0.html
13:23 < mpl> vikstrom: thx
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13:27 < jnwhiteh> very nice response
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13:30 < exch> Still discussing that one?
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13:41 < vikstrom> think it died out a few moments back
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14:33 < go^lang> how to import the third party pacakage in google app
engine?  like: web.go twister?
14:34 < exch> go^lang: You need to copy its source into a subdirectory of
your appengine project
14:34 < exch> Once your code is compiled on the AE servers, they won't be
able to resolkve the packages from an external repository, so it has to be local
to your project
14:35 < exch> s/resolkve/resolve/
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14:37 < go^lang> how to let web.go work in GAE?
14:40 < skelterjohn> what about exch's reply was insufficient?
14:41 < skelterjohn> you need to copy the web.go source into your project
14:42 < exch> go^lang: read this and the stuff it links to.  It should
explain everything you need to know:
http://blog.golang.org/2011/05/go-and-google-app-engine.html
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14:47 < go^lang> I got a exception:unable to start _go_app
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15:50 < ArgonneIntern> not so much a problem, but man do I really like the
changes to exec
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15:54 < kevlar_work> ArgonneIntern, lol, indeed.
15:54 < kevlar_work> I still think we could find a nicer way to interact
with a running app; exec works great for a run-and-wait scenario.
15:54 < ArgonneIntern> yea that is what Imostly use it for
15:55 < ArgonneIntern> I just removed all my pipes and replaced them with
.Output
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15:55 < ArgonneIntern> soooo nice
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16:00 < ArgonneIntern> question about go routines.  Since they are not
threads, this section of code won't actually help me will it.
http://www.pastie.org/2197388 I should just execute the commands in serial as
that's probably what's happening anyways.
16:01 < exch> They will be run in parallel.  Wether it makes a lot of
difference depends on how long each command runs, I guess
16:01 < ArgonneIntern> not if GOMAXPROCS isn't greater than 1 though right
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16:02 < exch> The schedular will still try to give each routine a reasonable
share of time, but what that will eventually result in, one can only guess
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16:03 < ArgonneIntern> well I only ask because it was said before, and I
believe it cause I've tested it, that if a routine doesn't block, like those
little guys, they never give up the CPU.
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16:03 < ArgonneIntern> so those would all execute in serial anyways, just
with the extra overhead of go routines
16:03 < ArgonneIntern> unless I'm mistaken and don't understand go routines,
which is very likely
16:04 < exch> If they never yield, then it's likely they will run as if done
in serial
16:04 < nicka> That is my understanding of go routines
16:04 < pharris> exec.Run blocks ("…and waits for it to complete."), so they
should all run in parallel.
16:04 < ArgonneIntern> ohhh good point
16:05 < ArgonneIntern> they do take approx half a second to finish so the
routines should actually help there
16:05 < ArgonneIntern> thanks
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16:05 < ArgonneIntern> I didn't even think about run blocking lol
16:05 < pharris> I don't see you waiting for the goroutines in that snippet,
so it's possible your main routine will starve out all those goroutines.  I assume
you will flesh this out a bit more before using it.
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16:06 < ArgonneIntern> those go routines are the last thing executed in
another go routine
16:07 < ArgonneIntern> I don't technically need to wait for the commands to
finish
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16:25 < kevlar_work> the "Golang inconsistencies" thread officially hit 100
posts.  Sigh.
16:27 < exch> Wht a waste of bandwidth eh?
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16:48 < kevlar_work> It's degenerated into people typing just to watch
themselves type.
16:49 < kevlar_work> I don't even want to know how many man-hours are wasted
by every new post on that thread.
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 12 00:00:56 2011