--- Log opened Sun Jul 17 00:00:00 2011
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00:42 < angasule> so quiet today
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01:17 < cmike_> yep, everyone must be outside in sun angasule
01:17 < cmike_> outside is dangerous
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01:43 < angasule> cmike_: scary!!!
01:43 < angasule> not much sun here, though
01:43 < angasule> well, not in the morning at least
01:44 * ajray is trying to come up with something clever to do with go
01:45 < angasule> how would you feel about reading my proposal for unboxing
in go?  :D
01:50 < ajray> angasule: i'd love to :D
01:50 < ajray> right now playing with using go programs in linux early-boot
processes.  for lulz
01:52 < angasule> http://pastebin.com/UNFEwQ6X <-- a proposal for a Go
modification...  what do you guys think?  I came up with it last night while
insomniac, so I'm sure it's perfect :-P
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01:59 < str1ngs> ajray: make it pid 1..  dooo eet
02:01 < ajray> str1ngs: looking at that :D but in the end it doesnt make
sense
02:01 < ajray> bash scripts are much better at spawning processes
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02:02 < ajray> angasule: whats the title of this?
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02:07 < ajray> angasule: why isnt this on the ML?
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02:09 < angasule> ajray: I was hoping to get some input on it before sending
it to the ML? I don't know squat about compiler design, or gc in particular, so it
might just be rubbish
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02:10 < angasule> robteix: buenas, it's nice to see someone else from .ar
02:11 < robteix> angasule: hi.  I'm not really *from* argentina but I'm in
argentina anyway :)
02:12 < ajray> angasule: it should start with an informative title and
summary
02:12 < ajray> i was confused until ~2 pages in
02:12 < angasule> robteix: oh, close enough, where from and where are you
staying, if you don't mind me asking?  I'm in Buenos Aires
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02:13 < angasule> ajray: I wasn't kidding about the insomniac part, I have
to rewrite it all and add coments that explain a bit more, specially the 'here be
dragons' part
02:16 < ajray> angasule: i think you'll do yourself a favor if you make it
much more succinct
02:16 < angasule> yeah, I'll rewrite it tomorrow morning
02:16 < angasule> what do you think of it?  or is it too confusing to get
the idea?
02:18 < ajray> confusing, not sure if the benefits outweigh the added
complexity
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02:20 < angasule> I like the first part more than the 'here be dragons'
part...  but if it doesn't cover interfaces it's worthless
02:22 < angasule> oh, hey, are you in the triangle?
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02:27 < ajray> triangle?
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02:29 < angasule> around Raleigh?
02:29 < angasule> North Carolina?
02:32 < ajray> oh yeah.
02:32 < ajray> I'm in Austin TX for the summer, but I go to NCSU.  I'm on a
server there :-)
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02:34 < angasule> yeap, noticed that :-)
02:34 < angasule> I'll be moving to Chapel Hill soon, my girlfriend will be
attending UNC
02:35 < ajray> what about yourself?
02:35 < angasule> I'll be looking for a job :-)
02:37 < angasule> she'll be doing a masters or whatever, the US education
system never ceases to confuse me
02:38 < angasule> I'm a programmer, in case it needs saying, mostly C and
C++, but would love to do some real world Go :-)
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02:45 < ajray> angasule: good to hear!  Theres a lot of cool stuff going on
in the Triangle.  No idea about go programming though.
02:46 < ajray> At NCSU I do 'into to go' overviews/presentations and teach
google user group/linux user group peoples how to write (idieomatic) go programs
02:47 < angasule> nice
02:47 < angasule> any idea how the job market is?
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03:42 < angasule> g'night
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04:56 < zippoxer> Is there a shorter way to merge 2 maps than iterating over
one of them?
05:05 < |Craig|> zippoxer: considering how they are implemented, I don't
think you will find a faster way.  There may be some general code to do it
somewhere, but due to the lack of generics, such code would have some serious
overhead
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10:49 < rael_wiki> hello
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10:49 < rael_wiki> using the rpc package I get this message "2011/07/17
12:24:59 rpc: client protocol error: invalid argument" is there a way to know
which method call produced it and for which argument?
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11:00 < Sh4rK> hi
11:00 < Sh4rK> if I have a big.Rat value how can I turn it into a float?
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11:07 < Sh4rK> anyone?
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11:22 < Sh4rK> adg, can you answer please?
11:23 < nicka> What's the question?
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11:24 < Sh4rK> Sh4rK> if I have a big.Rat value how can I turn it into a
float?
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11:29 < Sh4rK> nicka, if I have a big.Rat value how can I turn it into a
float?
11:31 < nicka> Let me see if I can figure that out
11:33 < nicka> You've tried casting it already?
11:34 < Sh4rK> no
11:34 < Sh4rK> I'll try
11:34 < Sh4rK> But I don"t think it'll work
11:34 < nicka> I don't know if that will work though
11:35 < nicka> You could print the float string and then parse it with scanf
in theory
11:35 < nicka> That seems a bit rube goldberg-ish though
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11:36 < Sh4rK> yeah
11:36 < Sh4rK> that's the only way I yould think too
11:37 < Sh4rK> *could
11:37 < nicka> I think anagasule has a bit more go experience than me; he
might know
11:37 < Sh4rK> or cast the nominator and denominator back to int64
11:37 < Sh4rK> if it fits
11:37 < Sh4rK> and divide them :D
11:37 < nicka> That too
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11:43 < Sh4rK> angasule, are you here?
11:44 < rm445> I haven't used that package, but that sounds like the right
way - if you're storing a number as the form a/b, at some point you have to divide
a by b to get a number
11:44 < remy_o> i'd say convert each one to float and divide: you'd probably
get the most efficiency by truncating the bigints to their most significant bits
and multiplying afterwards by 2**n
11:44 < Sh4rK> yeah
11:45 < angasule> Sh4rK: yes
11:45 < Sh4rK> but if the numerator or the denominator is itself bigger than
int64
11:45 < Sh4rK> then what?
11:45 < Sh4rK> angasule, how can I divide two big.Ints?
11:45 < Sh4rK> to get a float
11:46 < remy_o> use BitLen() to get the length and Rsh() to take the most
significant bits
11:46 < remy_o> as an int64
11:47 < Sh4rK> then?
11:47 < angasule> I guess using a Rat isn't enough?
11:47 < Sh4rK> divide the two ints?
11:47 < Sh4rK> no
11:49 < angasule> why do you want a float, though?
11:49 < Sh4rK> because I'm writing a compiler
11:49 < Sh4rK> and I want consts to be arbitrary precision
11:50 < Sh4rK> and only cast them to the best match when assigned to
variables
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11:51 < angasule> you can use http://golang.org/pkg/big/#Rat.FloatString I
suppose
11:52 < Sh4rK> well ok
11:52 < Sh4rK> I'll try it
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13:04 < rael_wiki> does anybody have any hint for my problem?
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13:10 < nicka> What is your problem?
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13:16 < rael_wiki> nicka: using the rpc package I get this message
"2011/07/17 12:24:59 rpc: client protocol error: invalid argument" is there a way
to know which method call produced it and for which argument?
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13:16 < nicka> Not familiar with that package, sorry
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13:35 < heller> Hi, is there a simpler way to have a loop from 0 to 100
than: for i := range [100]int{} { ...  }?
13:35 < aiju> yes
13:35 < aiju> for i := 0; i < 100; i++ {}
13:35 < nicka> A regular for loop
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13:36 < aiju> we need a "Go for Python programmers"
13:36 < heller> well ...  that kinda sucks ...  I suspected a range of
numbers could have been a rang too
13:36 < aiju> or maybe "Go for FORTRAN programmers"
13:36 < aiju> it doesn't suck, it works
13:37 < heller> the syntax you described isn't exactly "range based" for
loop
13:37 < aiju> and who gives a shit?
13:37 < heller> its too verbose for a language supposed to support ranges
13:37 < aiju> "too verbose"?
13:37 < heller> yes
13:37 < Namegduf> Go "range" has absolutely nothing to do with Python's
ranges.
13:37 < Namegduf> Which Go does not support.
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13:38 < Namegduf> Go's range is a keyword used in a for loop to iterate over
a slice, array, string, or channel, and that is *it*.
13:38 < Namegduf> They are not a type, you can't pass them around.
13:38 < KBme> heller, this is not python, get used to it.
13:38 < Namegduf> Go is not a language "supposed to support ranges".
13:38 < heller> i never wanted it to be python
13:39 < heller> and i don't python
13:39 < heller> this was a simple question ...  you guys are strange ...
13:39 < aiju> haha
13:39 < nicka> Don't mind aiju
13:39 < KBme> i think you got a simple answer right away.
13:39 < exch> aiju was born angry, he can't help it
13:40 < heller> as for too verbose ...  compare "for i := 0; i < 100; i++
{}" vs "for i := range(0, 100) {}"
13:40 < aiju> the former has more spaces in it
13:40 < nicka> The response to questions of the language itself do tend to
be pretty ferocious
13:40 < nicka> responses*
13:40 < Namegduf> heller: Doesn't look too bad to me.
13:40 < heller> alright ...  as I am a beginner i just wanted to see if i
missed something ...
13:41 < Namegduf> Both are fairly concise, but I don't know whether the
second includes the start and end values
13:41 < Namegduf> While the first makes that explicit
13:41 < heller> i probably go for my first approach
13:41 < KBme> heller, your first approach being the range [100]int{}?
13:41 < heller> yes
13:41 < exch> Initializing 400 bytes for no reason?
13:42 < Namegduf> Your first approach is unidiomatic, slow (it allocates a
400byte block of memory for the sole purpose of iterating it), and can't start at
anything but 0.
13:42 < exch> That seems a bit odd
13:42 < KBme> very concise and efficient way to fill your memory quickly
13:42 < heller> i expect the compiler to be smart enough to optimize that
away
13:42 < uriel> that is totally idiotic
13:42 < Namegduf> It isn't.
13:42 < uriel> irrelevant
13:42 < aiju> hahahah
13:42 < Namegduf> It never will be, because your code isn't normal Go and
thus isn't targeted for optimisations.
13:42 < heller> lol
13:42 < uriel> Go for loops are like C for loops, for heaven's sake, this is
not rocket science
13:42 < aiju> i fucking hate the gcc approach to optimization
13:43 < Namegduf> Go does not have a range datatype
13:43 < KBme> you expect the compiler to be an indian in bangladesh
rewriting your code in go?
13:43 < Namegduf> If you want an integer to be incremented iteratively over
multiple loops
13:43 < Namegduf> Write that.
13:44 < uriel> Namegduf: exactly
13:44 < heller> as i said, i think that is too verbose ...  kind of
disappointed that the language doesn't support such ranges right away
13:44 < nicka> This is why we should have a community maintained 'Effective
Go' type document
13:44 < aiju> Go is not COBOL
13:44 < uriel> heller: verbose?  wtf is verbose about a for loop?
13:44 < Namegduf> Verbose is less bad than "outright misleading"
13:44 < Namegduf> Which is what what you're writing is
13:44 < Namegduf> In Go, ranging over an array is used to do an action over
each entry in it
13:44 < Namegduf> It's a foreach, basically
13:45 < KBme> many people will say verbose is actually good because it
doesn't hide stuff behind multiple layers
13:45 < uriel> Namegduf: or a channel
13:45 < Namegduf> You're writing a for each which does nothing to the thing
it's iterating over
13:45 < heller> right
13:45 < Namegduf> That's way less readable
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13:46 < uriel> fun thing is, you could do "for i := range r(0, 100) {}" if
you defined a r() function that returned a channel, and used a goroutines
13:46 < Namegduf> In general, Go is probably not the language you want if
you want as much complexity as possible in order to reduce character count.
13:46 < uriel> but that would be totally stupid
13:46 < Namegduf> And very slow
13:46 < Namegduf> (Relatively)
13:47 < heller> its not about character count, its about expressiveness
13:47 < uriel> certainly there is absolutely no downside to written a loop
the way a loop is: for i := 0; i < 100; i++
13:47 < uriel> heller: and a for loop like that is perfectly expressive
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13:47 < uriel> heller: it is *explicit* and totally clear in what it does
13:47 < Namegduf> What do you mean by "expressiveness"?
13:47 < uriel> there is no magic, it is obvious, and concise
13:47 < Namegduf> Being clear?
13:47 < Namegduf> Because what you wrote is slightly shorter in character
count at the expensive of any clarity
13:48 < uriel> Namegduf: "fancy magic sugar to make things tasty and harder
to figure out and change"
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13:48 < heller> while it is, i beleive having integer ranges like i tried to
explain above even adds to the expressiveness
13:48 < heller> never said you have to like it
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13:48 < heller> it's clearly a matter of taste
13:48 < uriel> heller: you have a very bizarre deffinition of
"expressiveness"
13:48 < Namegduf> It might- although you get inclusive/exclusive range
issues popping up
13:48 < uriel> heller: with range, if I want to count down instead of up,
how you do it?
13:48 < Namegduf> But it is not worth the complexity of defining a range
type in the language
13:48 < heller> range(100, 1)
13:48 < heller> for example
13:49 < uriel> heller: and if I want to increment by 2 instead of by one?
13:49 < Namegduf> It's another optional parameter in Python.
13:49 < uriel> range (100, 1, 2)?  yay for more sugar to solve a non-issue
13:49 < heller> it might be a non-issue for you.
13:50 < uriel> heller: it is a non issue for anyone that has writen more
than a dozen of lines of code in C
13:50 < aiju> or Go
13:50 < aiju> or C++ or Java or all the languages out there with that for
loop
13:50 < Namegduf> I think perhaps you should be slower to go "that's
unclear" before learning a little more.  It's entirely clear to anyone who
understands for loops in Go, which are identical to those in C, C++, and Java
13:50 < uriel> heller: the way python uses ranges is just a way to make up
for the limitations of its for operator
13:51 < Namegduf> Also Python's range() operator is *not* optimised
13:51 < aiju> Namegduf: in python 3.0 it is
13:51 < Namegduf> You need to use xrange() or it will be quite slow
13:51 < Namegduf> Ah, they fixed that in 3?
13:51 < aiju> yes
13:51 < aiju> xrange is dropped in 3
13:51 < aiju> range is now even more magic
13:52 < exch> yay
13:52 < uriel> in python it kind of makes sense, but still c and Go for
loops are way more clear and expressive
13:52 < uriel> for loops are for much more than just iterating over a list
of items
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13:52 < Namegduf> The Go for loop is a generic, simple construct which
allows the clear expression of arbitrary iteration and ending criteria.  Since
they're written as regular statements, you don't need to learn anything extra to
use them.
13:52 < heller> don't bother ...  i didn't really expect to see such
stubborness and unfriendlyness in such a channel ...  have fun
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13:52 < aiju> HAHAHAHAHA
13:52 < Namegduf> I didn't expect to see someone allocate an array just to
iterate it.
13:52 < exch> mistaking sanity for stubbornness now?
13:52 < uriel> god people are fucking stupid
13:52 < uriel> we are doomed
13:53 < schilly> is there a iterator in go?
13:53 < Namegduf> range
13:53 < uriel> schilly: range
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13:53 < Namegduf> Works only on slices, arrays, strings, and channels
13:53 < schilly> uriel: ok, i mean, something that would create an object
that does exactly what he wants.
13:53 < aiju> schilly: no
13:53 < Namegduf> Oh, no.
13:53 < schilly> uriel: in python, you need to have a __next__() method
13:53 < Namegduf> You can implement one, but it will be quite slow
13:54 < Namegduf> Go doesn't do magic methods.
13:54 < aiju> just do your own next
13:54 < schilly> ok, just made sure i don't miss something ;)
13:54 < Namegduf> I'm actually neutral on that; as ways to make the
language's generic functions work on arbitrary types without implementing full
generics, they're not bad
13:54 < aiju> for x := first; x != nil; x = x.Next() {}
13:54 < Namegduf> But Go doesn't like magic.
13:55 < Namegduf> Yeah, you just write an explicit for loop and there's
nothing ugly about that.
13:55 < exch> magic makes baby jesus (and me) cry
13:55 < aiju> it's how i traverse linked lists in C
13:55 < schilly> aiju: i just thought about that
13:55 < aiju> for(x = &head; x != nil; x = x->next)
13:55 < Namegduf> I think range is important on the built-in types
13:55 < aiju> it certainly is handy
13:55 < Namegduf> Good channel iteration is a bit annoying to write, have to
use select{}
13:55 < schilly> yes
13:55 < Namegduf> I think.
13:56 < aiju> i don't like that syntax, but that's just bikeshed
13:56 < Namegduf> No, you just need to ,ok
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13:56 < Namegduf> But you'd need to jam in an extra check of the ok to quit
after processing, before the next read
13:56 < uriel> 13:53 < schilly> uriel: ok, i mean, something that
would create an object that does exactly what he wants.
13:56 < aiju> (for x := range suggests some sort of magic object in between
or something, should be just foreach i, j := slice or similar, imho)
13:56 < uriel> like, a channel?
13:56 < uriel> I don't know, there a thousand ways to do it, all stupid
13:56 < schilly> one could also use such a range method to generate a
channel that creates the elements.  also slow, but that's expessive
13:56 < uriel> because for loops work fine
13:57 < Namegduf> Yes, a channel can be used to implement an arbitrary
iterator
13:57 < Namegduf> exp/iter (I may have the name wrong, I forget) used that.
13:57 < Namegduf> It's slow, though, and has goroutine-leaking problems.
13:58 < schilly> Namegduf: yes.  and that construct is equivalent to
python's co-routine with yield
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14:11 < exch> Well, that was our share of sunday afternoon entertainment, I
guess
14:12 < schilly> :)
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15:21 < Sh4rK> what should I name my new programming language exclusively
for programming AVRs?
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15:29 < aiju> Sh4rK: AVeRage
15:30 < Sh4rK> but that's too average don't you think?
15:30 < Sh4rK> :D
15:30 < Sh4rK> what do you think of AvAce?
15:30 < Sh4rK> for avr-ace?
15:32 < aiju> i don't get it
15:32 < rael_wiki> what about AV*Rage* :)
15:33 < Sh4rK> yeah
15:33 < Sh4rK> it's cool too
15:33 < nicka1> avr-ice or AVaRice
15:34 < Sh4rK> but that's an existing thing
15:34 < Sh4rK> :D
15:34 < Sh4rK> http://avarice.sourceforge.net/
15:36 < nicka1> stealing the name avarice is very fitting though
15:36 < Sh4rK> lol
15:36 < Sh4rK> what about AV|Rage?
15:36 < aiju> writing compilers for AVR is a horrible task
15:37 < Sh4rK> why?
15:37 < aiju> you are really low on memory
15:37 < Sh4rK> yeah
15:37 < Sh4rK> that's the challenge
15:37 < aiju> trying to get your program into 2 KB flash, 128 B RAM is fun
15:37 < Sh4rK> :D
15:38 < Sh4rK> writing the memory allocator part will be a challenge
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15:39 < Sh4rK> to get it right
15:39 < aiju> i wouldn't do dynamic memory allocation on an AVR
15:39 < Sh4rK> sometimes it could be useful
15:39 < Sh4rK> avr-gcc has malloc too
15:39 < aiju> i know
15:39 < aiju> avr-gcc is evil
15:39 < Sh4rK> :D
15:39 < Sh4rK> why do you think so?
15:40 < aiju> the libc rather
15:40 < Sh4rK> nicka1, why do you think "ice" is so fitting?
15:40 < aiju> it provides too much unnecessary cruft
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15:40 < aiju> and it's rather huge
15:40 < nicka1> avarice means extreme greed
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15:42 < Sh4rK> and why is it good?
15:42 < Sh4rK> I don't get it
15:43 < Sh4rK> and also a unique name would be better
15:43 < nicka1> stealing the name from a project named avarice
15:43 < nicka1> it's a bad joke
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15:50 < Sh4rK> AViaRy?
15:50 < Sh4rK> :D:D
15:51 < angasule> using a real word is bad, specially a short one, e.g.
"go" :-P
15:51 < Sh4rK> yeah I figured that out myself :D
15:51 < Sh4rK> like c, d
15:51 < Sh4rK> :D
15:52 < nicka1> but I'm a programmer; forced puns are my only remaining
source of happiness
15:52 < TheSeeker> was there an a and b ?
15:52 < angasule> well, C existed way before the web
15:52 < angasule> there was a B, not sure about A
15:52 < rael_wiki> nicka1: lol
15:52 < angasule> APL = A programming language
15:53 < angasule> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_programming_language
15:53 < Sh4rK> b was the predecessor of c
15:53 < Sh4rK> look at the very first commit of go ;)
15:54 < angasule> x[⍋x←6?40]
15:54 < angasule> APL is great :P
15:55 < angasule> X[⍋X+.≠' ';]
15:56 < angasule> (~R∊R∘.×R)/R←1↓⍳R
15:56 < angasule> there are two more examples in wikipedia, but they are
just images haha
15:58 < qeed> heh is that based on principia mathematica or something
15:59 < uriel> angasule: I prefer k to APL
15:59 < uriel> at least I can type it
15:59 < Sh4rK> It is based on a mathematical notation developed by Kenneth
E. Iverson and associates which features special attributes for the design and
specifications of digital computing systems, both hardware and software.
15:59 < Sh4rK> wikipedia
15:59 < aiju> http://aiju.de/code/k/tictactoe
15:59 < aiju> for an example in K
16:00 < aiju> i know of B, C, J, K, P, S
16:00 < aiju> and D
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16:00 < aiju> there are window systems named W, X and Y
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16:01 < go^lang> how to know a file was exists?
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16:01 < aiju> os.Stat
16:02 < angasule> APL is the predecessor of Perl
16:02 * angasule can only read Egyptian hieroglyphs
16:02 < aiju> hahaha
16:02 < aiju> perl can be readable
16:04 < Sh4rK> that was a funny talk with that guy who wanted to loop
through an array just to get range syntax :D
16:07 < Sh4rK> Does the go license allow to write closed-source apps and
sell them?
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16:07 < Sh4rK> using the go libs as well
16:07 < exch> yes
16:08 < Sh4rK> ok
16:08 < exch> Mine you, i'm not a lawyer
16:08 < exch> *Mind
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16:10 < Sh4rK> but I'm not english
16:10 < Sh4rK> and the copyright text is not so clear for me :D
16:11 < Sh4rK> btw copyrights in my own language are hardly understandable
too :D
16:11 < aiju> number of shits companies give about licenses: 0
16:12 < exch> until they decide to sue you for eevrything you have
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16:15 < Sh4rK> and do you think it's a problem if I mostly copy the go
package's lexing parsing packages?
16:15 < Sh4rK> :D
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16:15 < aiju> exch: how many times have companies been sued for GPL
violation?
16:15 < aiju> 3?
16:16 < uriel> who cares?
16:16 < uriel> offtopic
16:16 < exch> Even one time is enough to make one cautious
16:17 < angasule> hmm, implicit conversions to interface types are always
allowed, right?
16:17 < angasule> aiju: mostly a threat is enough
16:17 < aiju> also, amen at uriel
16:18 < angasule> I'm pretty sure Go isn't GPL but BSD?
16:18 < aiju> yes
16:18 < aiju> MIT i think
16:18 < jlaffaye> Apache2?
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16:19 < jlaffaye> oh no its plain BSD
16:19 < angasule> it has its own BSD-like license
16:19 < jlaffaye> 95% of opensource projects from google are APLv2, but not
this one :)
16:19 < aiju> APL?
16:19 < aiju> affero?
16:20 < aiju> the it's-even-worse-than-GPL public license?
16:20 < jlaffaye> http://www.opensource.org/licenses/apache2.0.php
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16:20 < aiju> ah okay
16:20 < angasule> AGPL = affero GPL
16:20 < aiju> i see
16:21 < angasule> almost no one uses that, I think
16:21 < angasule> or GPLv3
16:21 < aiju> haha
16:21 < aiju> GPLv3 is larger than the UNIX v6 kernel
16:21 < uriel> offtopic
16:21 < angasule> I'm not sure whether you're kidding or not
16:21 < aiju> aiju@toshiba ~ $ wc -c tmp/v6/root/unix gpl-3.0.txt
16:21 < aiju> 30346 tmp/v6/root/unix
16:21 < aiju> 35147 gpl-3.0.txt
16:22 < angasule> heh
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16:40 < go^lang> 88 all
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17:07 < kamaji> Can anyone explain this: "If you want to minimize the sum of
Ai * Bi, you should multiply the smallest Ai by the largest Bi, the
second-smallest Ai by the second-largest Bi, and so on" ?
17:07 < kamaji> I sort of have a proof for 2 element vectors, but it still
doesn't really make intuitive sense to me
17:08 < kamaji> I'm guessing you can sort of extend the 2 element proof
upwards to any size, but it's weird...
17:11 < aiju> 18:46 < go^lang> 88 all
17:12 < aiju> what does he mean, "heil hitler"?
17:13 < exch> you have a strange mind
17:13 < aiju> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/88_(number)#As_a_Neo-Nazi_symbol
17:14 < kamaji> it's Chinese :p
17:14 < kamaji> 8 = ba = "bye" I guess?
17:18 < aiju> kamaji: wikipedia says ham radio
17:19 < aiju> ah, also chinese
17:19 < skelterjohn> kamaji's explanation makes more sense
17:19 < skelterjohn> but i'm going to go with aiju's original
17:20 < skelterjohn> just for fun.
17:20 < aiju> hahaha
17:20 < aiju> it's fun how much some people care about numbers
17:21 < aiju> in japanese, 四 (four) and 死 (death) can both be pronounciated
"shi", so people avoid 4
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17:21 < kamaji> same in Chinese
17:22 < skelterjohn> i thought death was "shini"
17:22 < kamaji> so strange
17:22 < aiju> skelterjohn: japanese words have many pronounciations, also
sometimes different words just refer to the same thing
17:22 < skelterjohn> kind of like any language, i suppose
17:23 < skelterjohn> stupid
17:23 < skelterjohn> err
17:23 < skelterjohn> stupid "synonyms" and "homonyms"
17:23 < aiju> yeah, it's particularly fun in japanese
17:24 < kamaji> my friends were talking about this yesterday
17:24 < kamaji> so confusing
17:25 < kamaji> especially when they start dropping into japanese
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17:37 < angasule> that's why I restrict myself to writing important stuff in
Egyptian hieroglyphs
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18:12 < brandini> waddup d00ds
18:14 < brandini> I'm taking a look at mongodb but I'm not sure if it's
worth it for something that I'm just using sqlite for
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18:16 < dforsyth> i should clean up/release my leveldb bindings
18:19 < rael_wiki> my rpc keeps printing "rpc: client protocol error:
invalid argument" randomly I'm just about to give up, I don't know what to do...
18:20 < rael_wiki> is there any known issue about that?
18:25 < brandini> I really should take a crack at getting go working on my
"solaris" box
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18:31 < Sh4rK> Question:
18:31 < Sh4rK> How can I create an array that isn't allocated while running?
18:31 < Sh4rK> the program
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18:34 < rael_wiki> Sh4rK: what do you mean with "not allocated while running
the program"?
18:36 < aiju> Sh4rK: create a global array
18:36 < aiju> var x := [...]int{23,42}
18:36 < aiju> ehm, not :=
18:36 < aiju> just =
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18:37 < Sh4rK> is it created compile-time?
18:37 < erus`> yes
18:38 < Sh4rK> ok
18:39 < Sh4rK> but you can create an allocated array with the same syntax
18:39 < qeed> i want to do something like memcpy(&a[offset_0], &b[offset_1],
size) how can i do that in go?
18:39 < Sh4rK> i mean var x := [foo]int?
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18:41 < exch> qeed: use the builtin copy(dst, src)
18:41 < qeed> what about offset?
18:41 < qeed> since a and b are different array size
18:42 < exch> copy(dst[x:], src[y:])
18:42 < qeed> thanks
18:42 < exch> can even be overlapping
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18:51 < Sh4rK> and how do I allocate an array?
18:51 < Sh4rK> make([]int, len) allocates a slice if I know correctly
18:51 < qeed> i do new([]T)
18:52 < Sh4rK> var p *[]int = new([]int) // allocates slice structure; *p ==
nil; rarely useful
18:52 < exch> a fixed array: var a [100]int;
18:52 < Sh4rK> from effective go
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18:53 < exch> an empty slice: var a []int;
18:53 < Sh4rK> but if I want to make it runtime with a variable setting it's
length
18:53 < exch> it's a valid slice though, just has len/cap of 0
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18:53 < exch> a := make([]int, len)
18:53 < Sh4rK> but that's a slice
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18:53 < Sh4rK> I need an array
18:53 < exch> that wont work for arrays though.  arrays with fixed sizes
need to have compiletime constant sizes
18:53 < exch> the size is a part of the type itself
18:54 < exch> eg: [2]int is a wholy different type than [3]int
18:54 < Sh4rK> then how does make() work?
18:54 < exch> You will find that Go rarely uses arrays directly.  Most is
done with slices
18:54 < Sh4rK> is it cheating?
18:54 < exch> make is 'magic' in that it allocates N amount of slots for you
18:54 < exch> it also initializes maps and channels for you
18:55 < Sh4rK> because if you write make([]int, 10, 100)
18:55 < Sh4rK> it allocates an array of len 100
18:55 < Sh4rK> so it CAN allocae an array
18:55 < exch> under the hood, yes
18:55 < Sh4rK> so it's not exposed to users
18:55 < Sh4rK> ok
18:56 < exch> It's not the same deal entirely though.  consider a slice as:
struct slice{ int len; int capacity; void* data; }
18:56 < Sh4rK> right
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19:28 < brandini> has anyone got Go building on openbsd?
19:28 < brandini> I know that's a bit of an odd request :)
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19:33 < ww> make(magic)
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19:48 < Sh4rK> what do you think, guys?
19:48 < Sh4rK> http://pastebin.com/mEicSQXH
19:48 < Sh4rK> I've put it together just now
19:49 < brandini> lol
19:49 < Sh4rK> thoughts?
19:50 < Sh4rK> some things are missing though
19:50 < brandini> You want to kill yourself and everyone else?
19:50 < Sh4rK> why?
19:50 < Sh4rK> you don't like indentation?
19:51 < aiju> that switch statement is horrific
19:51 < Sh4rK> yeah
19:51 < Sh4rK> I couldn't think of etter
19:51 < Sh4rK> any ideas to make it better?
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19:53 < brandini> what's this page mean when it says you can run Go without
an os?
19:53 < Sh4rK> that you can run go without an OS
19:53 < brandini> http://go-lang.cat-v.org/os-ports
19:54 < exch> it's not entirely true.  It needs a custom runtime
19:54 < brandini> it points to a stale/missing README
19:54 < Sh4rK> I guess they try to run it on bare hardware
19:54 < brandini> exch: I'm curious :)
19:54 < exch> There used to be a 'bare metal' version of the runtime
included with the go repo as an experiment.  But it was dropped due to lack of
development/interest
19:55 < brandini> hrmmm
19:55 < brandini> how did it work?
19:55 < exch> Dunno, I never used/looked at it myself
19:56 < brandini> :)
19:56 < exch> I'm sure the 'tiny' implementation code is still available if
you go through old revisions of Go
19:57 < brandini> yup, looking now
19:58 < brandini> ps I <3 hg server
19:58 < brandini> *serve
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20:27 < uriel> exch: the 'tiny' port also was forked/expanded by somebody
20:28 < uriel> it was a proff of concept AFAIK, to make it fully functional
one would end up having to write drivers and stuff that are well beyond the scope
of the Go language development
20:29 < uriel> perfectly possible stuff, but stuff that doesn't belong in
the Go tree obviously
20:30 < brandini> I can't seem to find any good docs on building go in
solaris
20:31 < uriel> brandini: that is because you can't
20:31 < uriel> brandini: I think gccgo has some support for Solaris
20:31 < uriel> but who uses solaris anyway?
20:32 < brandini> I do!
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21:50 < krolaw> Hi, I'm having trouble with the time package.  I want a
custom time format, time.Format docs suggest seeing documentation for ANSIC, but:
21:51 < krolaw> println("The Time is: ",time.UTC().Format("%Y-%m-%d
%H:%M:%S"))
21:51 < krolaw> returns: The Time is: %Y-%m-%d %H:%M:%S
21:51 < krolaw> Can someone point me in the right direction?
21:55 < rm445> krolaw: you write the specific date and time given in the
docs (Mon Jan 2 etc) in the way you would like to see it appear.
21:56 < rm445> The time package cleverly works out from the numbers in your
string what you would like the format to be
21:57 < rm445> I don't have any code to hand but I think it would be
something like time.UTC().Format("2006-01-02 15:04:05")
21:58 < rm445> hope this helps, off to bed.
21:58 < aiju> wow
21:58 < aiju> how is THAT supposed to work
21:59 < aiju> hahahahahaha
21:59 < aiju> you use a certain time
22:01 < krolaw> Um, it does work.
22:01 < krolaw> Insane.
22:01 < krolaw> Thanks rm445.
22:01 < dario> i'm reading src/pkg/time/format.go ...  who had that idea?!
22:02 < krolaw> But what if I want some strange time format, how will Format
know what I am referring to?
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22:04 < |Craig|> it seems like a pretty nice system.  Clever
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22:04 < vsmatck> Clever makes me nervous.
22:05 < krolaw> I agree, nervous.  Especially around the 20th of November.
22:06 < krolaw> But I guess that would be a lousy format string "20112011"
22:06 < krolaw> "20060102" does what I need.
22:09 < |Craig|> the format is parsed using the set of constants in
format.go.  The reference date is chosen so there is no ambiguity in the
constants.  Seems robust to me.
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22:16 < krolaw> Ok, I'm jumping the gun.  I'll have a look at the src.
Would be nice if it was spelt out in the docs :-)
22:17 < krolaw> Thanks everyone for the help.
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22:42 < rael_wiki> is there anybody out there who can help a poor guy who's
struggling to get the rpc package work properly?
22:47 < nicka1> Ask skelterjohn if he comes around.  I'm not sure if he's
familiar with that package but he's a pretty good source of go knowledge
22:48 < angasule> rael_wiki: have you tried inserting a bit more logging
information in the rpc package and recompiling it?
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22:55 < rael_wiki> angasule: at the moment I get quite randomly the message
"2011/07/18 01:05:10 rpc: client protocol error: invalid argument" and I don't
know how to get more info (like the involved method/argument), how can I get it?
22:55 < angasule> rael_wiki: editing the source code of rpc :-)
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23:13 < rael_wiki> whoa
23:14 < rael_wiki> angasule: I'm sorry for my ignorance...  where can I find
it on my (Debian) system?
23:16 < nicka1> Did you install a package or compile the source yourself
23:16 < angasule> rael_wiki: are you using golang or gccgo?
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23:22 < rael_wiki> angasule, nicka1: 6g from debian repository
23:24 < nicka1> There's always the possibility you're running into an issue
that has been fixed in a more recent version than what you have
23:24 < angasule> if you're going to be messing with the packages, I'd
advise to work on the mercurial repository
23:24 < angasule> but first send an email to the mailing list, whoever is in
charge of the rpc package may help
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23:41 < rael_wiki> angasule: ok thanks
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23:55 < crest> does fmt.Scanner support scanning until reaching EOF?
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23:56 < crest> i tried to implement the fmt.Scanner interface for one of my
types and it calls foo.Scan(...) on an empty string returning zero element byte
slices
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 18 00:00:00 2011