--- Log opened Sat Jul 23 00:00:01 2011
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00:36 < crazy2be> quiet tonight
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00:45 < skelterjohn> too quiet...
00:50 < brandini> yup
00:50 < brandini> time to hack!
00:50 < crazy2be> yay!
00:51 < crazy2be> although it's hard to hack on go code
00:51 < crazy2be> most of what you do is hardly hacking :P
00:51 < crazy2be> compared to say C
00:51 < crazy2be> heh
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00:56 < brandini> writing code is hacking :)
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01:09 < brandini> anyone written a threaded app that hits a web page in go?
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01:20 < kevlar_work> brandini, yeah
01:21 < brandini> kevlar_work: would you mind sharing that up?
01:22 < brandini> I'm interested in making another useless benchmark tool :)
01:22 < brandini> right now I'm using python and the test tool is killing my
cpu before my website even gets warmed up
01:24 < str1ngs> brandini: client := new(http.Client); _,err :=
client.Get("http://golang.org")
01:25 < str1ngs> adds some for loops and goroutines should be pretty easy.
01:25 < brandini> I do need to write more code don't I :)
01:25 < str1ngs> not much really
01:25 < str1ngs> read what I said
01:31 < kevlar_work> wrap the client.Get in a for loop, wrap that for loop
in a goroutine, wrap that goroutine in a for loop, and set the for loop ranges to
be flags and you're pretty much done.
01:32 < brandini> :)
01:32 < brandini> I've got that almost done
01:32 < crazy2be> you could just use seige :P
01:32 < brandini> is that in go?
01:33 < crazy2be> no, but it's useful for benchmarking webservers and
testing under load
01:34 < jamesmiller5_> apache has a basic benchmark tool
01:34 < kevlar_work> here's one I wrote a long time ago:
https://gist.github.com/1100833
01:35 < kevlar_work> it doesn't do multiple requests per goroutine, but it
does a pretty good job of hammering tomcat, which was its target.
01:35 < brandini> sweet
01:35 < brandini> just to clarify, this won't be multiple requests at once?
01:35 < kevlar_work> lol, it does EVERY request in parallel
01:36 < kevlar_work> all 1000 of them if you don't change the arguments.
01:36 < brandini> sweet
01:36 < brandini> perfect!
01:36 < brandini> I wanna make IIS+.NET look like limp dick compared to my
go app
01:36 < crazy2be> brandini: What does your app do?
01:37 < brandini> same thing the .NET one does, a call into a backend
service, render a page from the result
01:37 < crazy2be> nice
01:37 < brandini> think xsl+xml messages+java
01:37 < crazy2be> eww
01:37 < brandini> yeah
01:39 < brandini> at the defaults I'm getting 11.90% error rate hitting an
nginx proxy in front of my go app
01:39 < brandini> lets start two go apps
01:40 < crazy2be> brandini: What's your setup?
01:40 < brandini> my cr-48 netbook is already outperforming our production
setup :)
01:41 < kevlar_work> 11.9% error rate is pretty bad...
01:41 < brandini> on a netbook?
01:41 < brandini> getting hit that hard?
01:41 < kevlar_work> you might want to print out the errors you're getting
01:41 < crazy2be> what does nginx do for you?
01:41 < kevlar_work> yeah, it should slow down but not throw errors
01:41 < crazy2be> like how does it all connect?
01:41 < brandini> crazy2be: simulates our load balancers if a backend craps
out
01:42 < crazy2be> nginx does load balancing?
01:42 < crazy2be> cool
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01:44 < brandini> you can weight certain backends
01:45 < crazy2be> and a random one gets the request?
01:45 < brandini> it appears it's making nginx crash
01:45 < brandini> yup
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01:46 < brandini> when I take nginx out of the equation it goes without
error
01:46 < crazy2be> how do you ensure data integrity between hosts?
01:46 < brandini> you don't
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01:47 < crazy2be> how do you persist client data?  What if they end up on a
different machine between requests?
01:47 < brandini> the DB stores the session info
01:47 < brandini> based on a "contextid"
01:47 < kevlar_work> is nginx sending you 503 (unavailable)?  or what
01:48 < brandini> it's barfing a 500
01:48 < kevlar_work> or my favorite: 418 I'm a teapot
01:48 < crazy2be> then doesn't the db become the bottleneck?  It can't be
multithreaded (at least not easily), without compromizing data integrity
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01:49 < crazy2be> and you have the overhead of a network connection per
request
01:49 < brandini> crazy2be: the current bottleneck is .NET
01:49 < kevlar_work> hehe, hammering tomcat with 1000 goroutines each making
10 requests results in a 3.5% error rate.
01:49 < brandini> we haven't been able to make .NET to async calls to our
backend properly
01:49 < brandini> so it doesn't scale past one thread
01:51 < brandini> kevlar_work: my single go instance is handling it just
fine on my little netbook :)
01:51 < brandini> I wanna see how fast
01:52 < kevlar_work> I made it a little more customizable if you refresh the
gist
01:52 < kevlar_work> I split --requests into --goroutines and --count
01:55 < brandini> hrmmm, I don't have GOMAXPROCS set
01:55 < brandini> :)
01:55 < kevlar_work> I have an RPC server, and I am sooo tempted to slam it
with requests to see if it can handle it...
01:55 < kevlar_work> brandini, --threads will set that for you, but in
general you shouldn't set it yourself
01:56 < kevlar_work> most Go apps run best under GOMAXPROCS=1
01:56 < brandini> ahhh good to know
01:56 < brandini> I want to log the average time each thread took
01:56 < brandini> here we go
01:56 < skelterjohn> as long as they are io bound and don't benefit from
parallelism
01:57 < kevlar_work> in general, only things that have long-running
unyielding computation in parallel goroutines will benefit from multiple threads
01:57 < brandini> sounds like web to me :)
01:58 < crazy2be> brandini: i/o blocking doesn't benifit from multiple
threads in go
01:58 < crazy2be> benifits from multiple goroutines, but not multiple
threads
01:58 < crazy2be> since all the read/write calls use the non-blocking
versions
01:59 < crazy2be> and go schedules another goroutine to run on the same os
thread automatically
01:59 < kevlar_work> 100 requests transmitted, 85 errors; 85.00% error rate
01:59 < kevlar_work> rofl.
01:59 < kevlar_work> oh, python </3
01:59 < crazy2be> heh
01:59 < skelterjohn> what is causing the failure?
01:59 < skelterjohn> 100 seems like a small number of requests to overwhelm
a system
01:59 < kevlar_work> connection timeout
02:00 < kevlar_work> which means that the accept() loop isn't tight enough
02:00 < kevlar_work> er, connection refused*
02:00 < skelterjohn> ah
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02:00 < kevlar_work> also a handful of "unexepected EOF"
02:00 < brandini> crazy2be: ok
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02:01 < brandini> I'm watching the tour de france and these guys are
masacists
02:02 < kevlar_work> oh my lord, the python server takes nearly 30 seconds
to service 100 sequential requests
02:02 < brandini> yup
02:02 < brandini> not to mention...  have you seen the cpu?
02:02 < kevlar_work> it's a remote system
02:02 < brandini> this may go without saying but...  watch what happens to
.NET :)
02:02 < kevlar_work> but I'm sure it's nailing one of them to the wall.
02:03 < crazy2be> -wall
02:03 < brandini> yeah
02:03 < brandini> 4.579 seconds to do 1000 on my cr48
02:03 < brandini> with both parts running on it
02:03 < brandini> the tester and the server
02:03 < crazy2be> brandini: What's the bottleneck?
02:04 < brandini> prolly the cpu
02:04 < kevlar_work> the java one does 100 much more sophisticated requests
in .1s
02:04 < brandini> I'm at 218/sec
02:04 < kevlar_work> tomcat: 1000/.6s
02:05 < brandini> yeah, it pegs the cpu's
02:05 < kevlar_work> hehe, 10k/5s
02:05 < kevlar_work> if I did that to the python server, I think I would
burn a whole in the floor.
02:06 < crazy2be> I totally forget how to accept tcp connectiosn with go
02:06 < crazy2be> time to look at old code :P
02:06 < kevlar_work> crazy2be, listener, err := net.Listen("tcp", ":80")
02:06 < kevlar_work> then a for loop with conn, err := listener.Accept()
02:06 < crazy2be> ah, there it is
02:06 < kevlar_work> if memory serves.
02:06 < crazy2be> yeah I did it here:
https://github.com/crazy2be/wfdr/blob/master/modules/base/src/proxy.go
02:07 < brandini> I tried to make .NET pages not be syncronous when they
made backend calls...  took way too much work and was still non performant
02:07 < crazy2be> but I was looking under TCPListener for a method
02:07 < crazy2be> and didn't see one
02:07 < kevlar_work> it should have Accept and AcceptTCP
02:08 < kevlar_work> anyway, I'm done torturing our servers; time to get
dinner and go home.
02:08 < crazy2be> seeya
02:08 < crazy2be> :P
02:08 < brandini> later
02:18 < brandini> heh, got a too many open files
02:19 < crazy2be> I got that all the time
02:19 < crazy2be> used inotify, but didn't close the watcher if the program
was killed with Ctrl+C
02:20 < crazy2be> and I guess the handles aren't immediately cleaned up
afterwards
02:20 < crazy2be> so I kept running out
02:21 < brandini> I always kill stuff with ctrl+c
02:21 < crazy2be> well if you're using inotify then you have to hook into
the signals and make sure you close the watcher :)
02:22 < brandini> I don't know what that is
02:22 < crazy2be> inotify or signals?
02:22 < brandini> inotify
02:22 < crazy2be> filesystem change monitor
02:22 < brandini> ahhh
02:25 < crazy2be> ugggh tomorrow I have to write C#
02:26 < crazy2be> it's not actually that bad
02:27 < crazy2be> but I always feel like everything i'm writing is a
horrible hack
02:27 < brandini> .net or just c#
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02:28 < crazy2be> well I haven't really written in the others much
02:28 < crazy2be> but i'm guessing it's just .net
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02:53 < crazy2be> I hate it when I design myself into a corner
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03:10 < brandini> In the docs it says that 6g/8g compile faster, but produce
less efficient code than gccgo...  is this still true?  I thought 6g/8g were the
preferred compilers
03:10 < crazy2be> brandini: They are
03:10 < crazy2be> not sure about the speed
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03:19 < jessta> brandini: yeah, 6g/8g are the prefered compilers for most
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03:19 < jessta> AFAIK, gccgo still doesn't have goroutine multiplexing
support
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03:45 < crazy2be> night all
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10:32 < kungfuelmosan> Hey all, anyone got any pointers to golang cassandra
client packages?
10:34 < kungfuelmosan> I spotted
http://git.ancient-solutions.com/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=golang/cassandra.git;a=summary
10:34 < kungfuelmosan> just wondering if theres anything else
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11:12 < kungfuelmosan> also just spotted
https://github.com/tonnerre/go-cassandra
11:13 < kungfuelmosan> so new question: anyone use this / have any examples?
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12:04 < skelterjohn> kungfuelmosan: i haven't used it, sorry
12:04 < skelterjohn> and it's a bit early for this chatroom
12:04 < skelterjohn> :)
12:04 < skelterjohn> many people might be asleep
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12:09 < erus`> the should be a london go users conference
12:09 < ww> asleep or playing http://qntm.org/hatetris
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12:12 < ww> erus`: quite a few of us in .uk but i think our average position
is somewhere between nottingham and york
12:12 < erus`> argh
12:12 < erus`> that hatris
12:13 < kungfuelmosan> haha yeah I guess I didn't pick the best time
12:14 < kungfuelmosan> it is 00:19 here in NZ - I might repost tmrw
12:14 < kungfuelmosan> cheers
12:15 < ww> 'nite
12:16 < erus`> i thought we were all using mongodb now?
12:16 < KirkMcDonald> It is web scale.
12:16 < aiju> i still use Linux in-kernel databases
12:16 < aiju> commonly known as "files"
12:17 < KirkMcDonald> They sound scary.
12:17 < KirkMcDonald> I don't think they'll catch on.
12:17 < kungfuelmosan> yeah but 'Facebook' don't use files!  :P
12:17 < erus`> try updating a database from more than one thread aiju
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12:18 < aiju> erus`: that's wrong by definition
12:18 < aiju> this is Go
12:18 < aiju> we don't do shared memory
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12:19 < erus`> ok process
12:19 < erus`> you have n processes handling client connections
12:19 < aiju> two words
12:19 < aiju> interprocess communication
12:20 < erus`> you just writing your own database then
12:20 < aiju> if you call it that way
12:21 < jessta> erus`: how does mongo handle multiple clients updating the
same 'document'?
12:21 < erus`> queue and stuff i guess
12:24 < skelterjohn> erus`: no good will come of questioning aiju's design
choices, whether they're good ones or not
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12:26 < aiju> great
12:26 < aiju> mongodb is unportable
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12:26 < aiju> i appreciate your "good" design decisions
12:26 < skelterjohn> what is unportable about mongodb?
12:27 < aiju> 2 GB limit on 32-bit systems, little-endian only
12:27 < aiju> but the world is an AMD64
12:27 < aiju> who cares
12:28 < skelterjohn> a mongodb can only hold 2gb of data?
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12:30 < ww> skelterjohn: mongodb just mmap's everything
12:30 < skelterjohn> so it has to be able to fit into a single file?
12:30 < ww> or rather the file has to be able to fit into the address space
12:30 < skelterjohn> yes
12:32 < ww> and unless it's changed there is no attempt to make sure writes
are properly synched, ever, no journaling or whatnot
12:32 < ww> if you care at all about your data, you must run a mirrored
setup
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12:33 < skelterjohn> does the mongodb group distribute another tool to do
that on the side?
12:34 < ww> mongodb itself can (and should be) deployed that way
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12:35 < skelterjohn> um, does that mean they distribute a tool or not?  :)
12:35 < ww> but still means that what could be done with e.g.  postgresql on
one 32 bit host needs two 64 bit hosts to be comparable
12:35 < ww> skelterjohn: not a separate tool, just run mongodb twice and
tell them to mirror each other
12:36 < skelterjohn> oh, i see
12:36 < skelterjohn> i misunderstood
12:37 < ww> when okfn was heavily using amazon, it effectively meant that
doing anything serious with mongodb was 8x more expensive
12:37 < kungfuelmosan> ww: that definitely sounds farily shite
12:38 < skelterjohn> what's okfn?
12:38 < ww> http://okfn.org/
12:38 < kungfuelmosan> ww: any recomendations for alternatives?
12:38 < ww> i've done a substantial amount of work with them...
12:39 < ww> kungfuelmosan: riak and couchdb are alternatives...
12:40 < ww> or alternatives to amazon?  i personally prefer arpnetworks but
there's also rackspace (but slow network disks)
12:40 < kungfuelmosan> mmm, any gripes with cassandra?
12:40 < kungfuelmosan> ww: nah, alternatives to mongo
12:41 < ww> kungfuelmosan: haven't done anything with cassandra really...
only general gripe is it's java
12:43 < kungfuelmosan> ww: yup +1, makes my eyes blead
12:44 < skelterjohn> you'll fit in here
12:47 < kungfuelmosan> skelterjohn: haha, yeah big fan of Go - using it
wherever possible
12:48 < kungfuelmosan> get some obscure looks from some @ work though :) I'm
sure the first dudes to use the internet got those looks too though
12:53 < exch> fight the system man!
12:56 < kungfuelmosan> exch: all I need now is a gopher shirt :)
12:57 < exch> heh indeed
12:57 < exch> I wuold love one of those
12:57 < exch> Maybe a pluche gopher for my desk
12:58 < aiju> a gopher bomb
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13:11 < kungfuelmosan> exc
13:12 < kungfuelmosan> exch: yus!
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ti6s2UsV8no/Tdn82ozbggI/AAAAAAAAABM/AS4-YcQWfgo/s1600/gopher.jpg%20border=
13:13 < exch> heh exactly
13:14 < exch> A friend of mine does very cool stuff with crochet
(amigarumi).  Maybe I can have her make one for me :)
13:15 < exch> She already made me a 'Purple Tentacle' from the old adventure
game 'Day of the Tentacle'.  That one is a great inspiration when I feel like
taking over the world
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13:18 < kungfuelmosan> hehe as you do
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13:20 < kungfuelmosan> you cant get shirts online can you?
13:21 < exch> I don't think so
13:21 < kungfuelmosan> stink
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13:25 < exch> ah, behold.  My inspiration ^^
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/35177_141325652561278_100000515336872_331207_4712424_n.jpg
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13:26 < kungfuelmosan> hahaha very cool!  I think that would work well in
gopher form also
13:26 < exch> yes, I think so to
13:26 < aiju> hahahaha
13:26 < aiju> that game was fun.
13:27 < exch> ya ^^
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13:28 < kungfuelmosan> lol, I bet no-ones thinking about how cool it would
be to have a C++ plush toy
13:28 < aiju> well, it wouldn't fit in most people's houses
13:28 < kungfuelmosan> something to be said for that maybe
13:28 < exch> lol
13:28 < kungfuelmosan> hehe well said
13:31 < uriel> aiju: hahha
13:31 < uriel> kungfuelmosan: i think it would be great to have a C++ plush
toy
13:31 < uriel> it would make for good target practice
13:32 < uriel> also burning it would be a great symbolic gesture
13:33 < kungfuelmosan> hahaha yep, this should be a regular event at golang
meetups
13:34 < exch> We could always organize an anual Burning Pluche festival :p
13:35 < exch> lol.  cthulhu was never this cute ^^
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/263099_232926813401161_100000515336872_1014737_8196511_n.jpg
13:35 < kungfuelmosan> hehe, agreed, probably a fairly misleading
representation there
13:36 < exch> It's all fun & games, until he eats your face
13:36 < kungfuelmosan> luring you into a false sense of security
13:37 < exch> devious
13:37 < exch> Not unlike c++
13:37 < kungfuelmosan> speaking of meetups, are there many running atm?
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13:40 < exch> the only one's I've heard of are those in australia
13:41 < exch> iirc, organized by andrew gerrand
13:42 < kungfuelmosan> mmm, wonder how much interest thered be for a
wellington meetup, hint: probably not alot :(
13:42 < kungfuelmosan> (weelington, nz)
13:42 < exch> It's a little out f my way, so count me out :p
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13:43 < kungfuelmosan> heh understandable
13:44 < kungfuelmosan> and with that, I'm out - 2am is a silly time to be
awake - cheers for the entertainment though!
13:44 < exch> gnight
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15:07 < go^lang> How to get User-Agent header in Google App Engine (Go
runtime), working in SDK now.
15:07 < aiju> people rely on user-agent headers?
15:09 -!- ofl [~olli@31.16.204.145] has quit [Quit: Changing server]
15:09 < go^lang> I can't get user-agent from Request.Header when a
connectiing come in.
15:09 < ww> aiju: setting the user-agent properly is polite
15:09 < ww> oh, getting, not setting
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15:19 < Aram> hmm...  any tips on how to minimize casts?  say I have
functions that accept uint64 params, and I have uint8 vars.  I need to cast in
order to call the function.  any tips on how to avoid that?
15:19 < aiju> have the function accept uint8 params ...
15:20 < Aram> but the function needs uint64 params, just that most of the
time I only call it with uint8.
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15:25 < jessta> Aram: why do you want to avoid conversions?
15:26 < Aram> I want to eliminate the extra visual clutter.  90% of the time
I call that function I call it with a cast.
15:26 < jessta> wrapper function
15:27 < jessta> or you could make the uint8s be uint64s instead when you
declare them
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15:29 < jessta> it's also not visual clutter, you're using a type as a
different type so Go requires you be be explict about it
15:31 < Aram> I can't make uint8s into uint64s because the uint8s come from
functions that return uint8s for valid reason :-).  basically I am writing an
emulator.  I have written the memory so far.  I have functions that return 8, 16,
32 and 64 bit values (signed and unsigned, for all kind of endianess memory).  all
this functions take 64 bit addresses because I want the memory to support 64 bit
archs (although for now I'm implementing only a 16 bit arch).  I could imple
15:31 < Aram> wrapper functions I guess, though that would make many many
more functions.
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15:32 < Aram> I guess I'll settle for casts.
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15:38 < mattn_jp> Aram, do you mean convertion of number to bytes or bytes
to number?
15:40 < Aram> well I have a slice of bytes that I can use either as big or
little endian memory via these functions and the functions can get/set 8/16/32/64
bit signed/unsigned value.
15:42 < mattn_jp> encoding/binary?
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15:42 < aiju> encoding/binary is overkill
15:44 < Aram> yeah, I do a very very simple thing.  Physical memory is a
slice of bytes from [0:addrMax].  the way the CPU works with this memory is
through some accessor functions that take care of endianess and other thing, so
the emulated cpu would "see" memory in the layout it expects.
15:45 < Aram> it's probably very raw, and very broken, but here it is:
http://code.google.com/p/11go/source/browse/pkg/emu/memory.go
15:45 < Aram> the code is probably horrible, this is my first go program.
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15:50 < Aram> (if something is very stupid with that code, please shoot).
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16:17 < pyrhho> goinstall question
16:17 < pyrhho> if I tag a commit as 'release' on github, goinstall will use
that commit, but does that apply if golang is r58 only?  or if it is weekly too?
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16:24 < uriel> pyrhho: weekly-es are not 'release' anymore
16:24 < uriel> the recommended term now is 'snapshots'
16:24 < aiju> haha
16:24 < pyrhho> confounded newspeak lol
16:25 < uriel> pyrhho: see
http://www.reddit.com/r/golang/comments/ikg1j/another_weekly_release/c25emrd
16:25 < pyrhho> ok...  I guess my question is whether goinstall changes its
behaviour based on what version of golang is installed
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16:26 < uriel> pyrhho: I *think* so, might be worth checking the docs ;P
16:26 < pyrhho> k thought someone may happen to know.  will read through the
docs
16:26 < pyrhho> thanks
16:27 < fluffle> if i've got a value boxed in an interface{}, how can i test
whether that value is nil?
16:27 < fluffle> i tried _,ok := val.(nil); ok
16:28 < fluffle> but that bails cos nil isn't a type
16:28 < fluffle> and just doing == nil appears not to dwiw
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16:28 < fluffle> do i need to pull out reflect?
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16:30 < pyrhho> uriel: grah.  it just always uses the 'release' tag if one
exists, even if golang is on the weekly snapshot.  annoying
16:31 < pyrhho> oh well
16:34 < jessta> fluffle: you need to do a type assertion first
16:35 < jessta> to it's actual type, and then check for nil
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16:37 < jessta> fluffle: if you don't know the type, then you'll need
reflect, but if you don't know the type then you also don't know if nil is a valid
value for that type
16:38 < fluffle> jessta: "it's actual type" varies, and I want to use the
nil test to decide whether to push the interface{} into the unboxing function
16:39 < fluffle> jessta: for context, i'm dragging data out of a very old
sqlite database which has no types on *any* of the columns in the table :/
16:40 < fluffle> irritatingly, reflect.ValueOf() returns a Value i can't
even call IsNil() on
16:41 < fluffle> panic: reflect: call of reflect.Value.IsNil on zero Value
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16:43 < jessta> fluffle: yeah, that wouldn't work if the type isn't a
pointer
16:43 < fluffle> orite, that makes sense
16:44 < jessta> if the type varies, but you know which types are possible
you could do a type switch
16:44 < fluffle> i was doing that in the unboxing routine anyway, I guess
I'll change that to cope better
16:46 < skelterjohn> pyrhho: what many developers do, or at least what i do,
is tag a release version that matches the go release version, and have tip work
with weekly
16:47 < pyrhho> skelterjohn: yeah..  that's what I've done, as it was broken
for people.  Just sucks that it breaks goinstall for weekly.  (or seems like it
has done) is there a decent workaround to make it also work with weekly?
16:47 < skelterjohn> i do not believe so
16:48 < skelterjohn> i run into this issue sometimes, too.  from the support
end ("why doesn't goinstall work with your stuff!" etc)
16:49 < pyrhho> yeah.  i ran into it the same way...
16:49 < pyrhho> seems like goinstall needs some sort of versioning support
16:54 < skelterjohn> things have been suggested, nothing has caught on
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17:03 < jessta> I reckon goinstall should just look for a tag that matches
the tag from the Go version
17:04 < jessta> eg.  weekly.2011-07-19, release.r58.1, etc.
17:05 < exch> The revised gomake should take these things into account.  I
am unsure what it's status is though.  Until there is an official guideline on
these matters, I don't do any tagging or extra work to supply compatibility.  I
just make it clear that my stuff is written for the latest weeklies
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17:09 < pyrhho> skelterjohn: nice work on go-gb by the way.  really enjoying
it
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17:26 < skelterjohn> thanks :)
17:27 < skelterjohn> exch: maintaining tags is a pain, yeah
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18:43 < flavius> Hi. The tutorial over here
http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html says "These compilers run significantly
faster but generate less efficient code than gccgo.  At the time of writing (late
2009), they also have a more robust run-time system although gccgo is catching
up."
18:43 < flavius> I've watched a presentation from google i/o and I'm
wondering to what extend this is still valid
18:43 < flavius> from 2011
18:44 < str1ngs> flavius: they are comparable, what you lose in one regards
you gain in another.  ie gccgo better code optimiztion, gc better threading
18:45 < flavius> I see gccgo emits debuggable code, does 6g do the same?
18:45 < str1ngs> gccgo smaller binaries, but it lags behind the stdlib.
atleast until the go frontend is decoupled
18:46 < flavius> yeah I've noticed that too
18:46 < skelterjohn> what does that mean?  what does it mean to lag behind
the stdlib?
18:46 < str1ngs> it means its a good 3 months behind what the current stdlib
api is
18:47 < str1ngs> which wont be a factor, one the go frontend is decoupled
18:47 < skelterjohn> you mean the core packages?  can you not use them with
gccgo?
18:47 < str1ngs> you can use them but the api is much older
18:47 < str1ngs> baring in mind how fast go moves.
18:47 < flavius> so if you were me, a beginner with go which wants to just
learn the most modern stuff, what would you use, while waiting for a more "stable"
version of whichever chain may happen to fit your needs, 6g or gccgo?
18:48 < skelterjohn> so if i use gccgo and i import some random core
package, i'm actually importing something that is 3 months or so old?
18:48 < skelterjohn> flavius: 6g
18:48 < str1ngs> 6g is the way to go.  40s toolchain rebuilds vs 40min :P
18:48 < flavius> thanks guys.  I think I'll just hang around now
18:49 < str1ngs> skelterjohn: its not so bad if you say use a gcc 4.7
snapshot
18:50 < flavius> shared objects are still not supported I guess, right?
18:51 < str1ngs> you mean with gccgo?  or both?
18:51 < flavius> both
18:52 < str1ngs> gccgo has a shared runtime.  ie libgo.  but the rest is
static iirc.  gc is all static short of cgo linking to C libs
18:52 < str1ngs> imo all the static stuff is a feature though :P
18:52 < flavius> I mean building your own .so from go sources
18:53 < flavius> I realized gccgo has a libgo, since the executable is so
small itself
18:53 < str1ngs> in go those are called packages.  and no there statically
built into command/packages that use them
18:53 < flavius> I know, I mean a dl()-like feature
18:53 < str1ngs> dl() no.
18:54 < str1ngs> thought I was clear about that ..  guess not
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18:57 < ww> go for xml processing hooray!
18:57 < ww> churning through gigablobs of xml using no more than 6Mb of RAM
per process ftw!
18:58 < aiju> haha
18:58 < aiju> goroutines + channels are great for staying low on memory
18:58 < tav> if anyone fancies support for denial of service protection in
go web servers, please feel free to star/comment this issue:
http://code.google.com/p/go/issues/detail?id=2093 =)
18:58 < aiju> just don't let evil people on your internet
18:58 < aiju> problem solved
18:58 < tav> hehe
18:59 < ww> aiju: no fancy stuff like that, just chunk + xslt + write
18:59 < tav> if only life was that easy =)
18:59 < aiju> wow
18:59 < aiju> that's quite a long issue request
18:59 < tav> well, i try to be thorough
18:59 < aiju> your average 9front issue is just one sentence
19:00 < aiju> if anything ;P
19:00 < skelterjohn> sounds like the kind of thing you should start a
discussion for on the mailing list, and then submit a patch
19:00 < exch> probably
19:00 < tav> well, i emailed the list about it ages ago — bradfitz responded
that he's working on it and asked to make an issue
19:01 < skelterjohn> there you go then
19:01 < ww> tav: not sure about the content-length business...
19:01 < tav> i saw some commits from him along those lines, so i just left
it, but seeing as it still hadn't been sorted, i decided to create an issue after
all
19:01 < tav> ww: oh?
19:01 < ww> request can be big, and why not?  read them buffered and don't
suck it all into ram
19:01 < exch> file uploads
19:01 < ww> that's what the http library is expecting you to do
19:02 < tav> ww: sure, i'm not arguing against file uploads — that would
have been silly =)
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19:03 < tav> but, if an attacker uploads 10GB files, that's just an easy way
to use up my disk space
19:03 < tav> not to mention cpu cycles and exhaust memory
19:03 < aiju> get more disk space
19:03 < aiju> ;P
19:03 < tav> heh
19:03 < exch> Your code should have checks on that sort of stuff.  Limit
file sizes, etc
19:04 < ww> tav: sure, but as exch says, that's not the business of the http
library
19:04 < aiju> the problem with DOS is that a dedicated attacker will always
find a way
19:04 < tav> hmz, have you guys looked at the http library for this?
19:04 < tav> it makes lot of implicit decisions, e.g 10meg limit on form
uploads
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19:05 < tav> and you can't control the size of any file upload
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19:05 < ww> tav: well 10Mb limits would be silly....
19:05 < ww> but for controlling the size of the body, you just check that
when you loop around the reader/buffer
19:06 < tav> heh, well it's in there and you can't do anything about it —
except to use your own patched version of the http package
19:06 < aiju> the ".c stands for config" joke doesn't work with go
19:06 < aiju> there should be an issue for THAT
19:07 < tav> ww: yes, you could write your own multipart file reader, but
that's what the multipart package is for
19:07 < ww> that's broekn then...
19:07 < tav> and it doesn't provide the necessary protection
19:07 < tav> well, the easiest thing to do would be to limit the request
body at source
19:07 < ww> (and i don't usually use form encoding at all, just rest-like
post-document-with-the-right-content-type-damnit)
19:07 < tav> and thus my proposal
19:07 < ww> nonono.  that's not the right fix
19:08 < ww> i believe you that form handling is broken
19:08 < ww> but please don't try to fix it that way
19:08 < tav> why not?
19:08 < ww> because the way it works now is simple and clear, just read from
a buffer and stop reading if you want to
19:08 < tav> when a request is Close()'d, it copies the request body to
ioutil.Discard
19:09 < tav> so, i can upload a gazillion 10gb files and waste your cpu
cycles easily
19:09 < ww> that *should* be just a little bit of excess, what has actually
been read from the socket
19:09 < ww> i would be very surprised if it drained the socket
19:09 < tav> it drains the socket
19:10 < tav> well, upto the length of the body's content-length
19:10 < flavius> nm 6.out | grep main shows me several "main's", which one
is the one of my program?  It lists main.init main.initdone· main.main
runtime.mainstart
19:10 < tav> thus my proposal to solve it like this
19:10 < ww> ...  content-length is not always there, cf.  chunked encoding
19:11 * ww goes and actually looks at the source
19:11 < tav> with chunked encoding the current protection seems adequate
19:13 < ww> so http/server.go:148
19:13 < tav> actually, you are right, there is only protection against >=
4096 lines in chunked encoding
19:14 < tav> c = new(conn) ?
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19:14 < ww> oh, maybe we're looking at different versions.  i'm looking at
this:
19:14 < ww> func (ecr *expectContinueReader) Read(p []byte) (n int, err
os.Error) {
19:15 < ww> which seems to do what i would expect
19:15 < flavius> in the tutorial http://golang.org/doc/go_tutorial.html, the
echo example, when is flag.Bool called, which is outside of main()?
19:16 < flavius> does it "remember" the flags initialized, and does so upon
flag.Parse()?
19:17 < tav> not sure, why you are pointing to that
expectContinueReader{req.Body} is only called when the request expects a 100
Continue?
19:17 < ww> but you're right, old HTTP 1.0 behaviour drains
19:17 < ww> but apparently has to drain according to the comment talking
about RFC2616
19:17 < tav> sure, and i think that generally that is great behaviour,
leaves clients in a good state
19:17 < tav> draining that is
19:18 < tav> but, when facing 10gb uploads, i'd rather enforce a limit
19:20 < ww> i wonder if that belongs in a custom transport then
19:21 < ww> since this is a problem with http 1.0 which will tend to only do
one request per connection anyways?
19:22 < ww> but i guess you'd have to tell the transport which version of
http which would muddy things...
19:23 < skelterjohn> flavius: flag.Bool is called before main
19:23 < tav> ww: most of the http-version related aspects are already
handled in http/server.go and http/transfer.go
19:23 < tav> they just need to handle this existing comment (imo): // TODO:
limit the Content-Length.  This is an easy DoS vector.
19:23 < skelterjohn> but you don't get any guarantees about the order of
things that are called in the init phase, except if package A imports package B,
package B's inits go first
19:25 < flavius> when I try to print a variable in gdb (compiled it with
gccgo), I get "Attempt to extract a component of a value that is not a structure."
I am using gccgo (GCC) 4.6.1
19:25 < skelterjohn> can't help you there - never used gdb + go
19:25 < flavius> How to print it?  It is about the main.omitNewLine
19:26 < flavius> skelterjohn: are there other debugging tools?
19:26 < skelterjohn> fmt.Println
19:26 < flavius> doh
19:26 < skelterjohn> *shrug* it works fine
19:26 < skelterjohn> i have an easier time debugging go code with prints
than i did C, C++ or java with a fancy debugger
19:29 < skelterjohn> man, it is seriously hot out today
19:29 < ww> tav: so if you were to do that, there would need to be a way to
pass that configurable content-length limit down the stack...
19:29 < skelterjohn> hadn't gone outside this afternoon yet, but just took
out the garbage
19:29 < skelterjohn> and i about melted
19:29 < ww> right now ReadRequest just gets called with a reader...
19:29 < flavius> are there any __LINE__ and other similar things in go?
19:29 < aiju> no
19:29 < ww> flavius: i do most debugging with log.Printf
19:29 < skelterjohn> sure there is
19:29 < skelterjohn> runtime.Caller
19:30 < aiju> there is?
19:30 < ww> you can set up log to put the file and line in log messages
19:30 < skelterjohn> gets you dynamic information about the call stack,
including the line number of jumps
19:30 < flavius> introspection, cool
19:30 < ww> simplest thing is just do: log.SetFlags(log.LstdFlags |
log.Lshortfile)
19:30 < ww> and then use log.Print
19:30 < skelterjohn> gonicetrace.googlecode.com is an example using it,
though for a different purpose
19:30 < tav> also, runtime/debug.Stack() if you want to capture and output
stack traces
19:31 < skelterjohn> huh - that's what nicetrace does, without runtime/debug
19:32 < skelterjohn> but nicetrace does its own formatting and skips the low
level .c files
19:34 < tav> ww: sure, agreed about the question of how to pass along the
configuration
19:34 < tav> skelterjohn: cool, thx, didn't know about nicetrace
19:35 < skelterjohn> i don't really advertise it
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19:35 < skelterjohn> but it makes it easier for me to read the stack trace
when something panics
19:35 < skelterjohn> just "defer nicetrace.Print()"
19:35 < tav> skelterjohn: a comparative example on the homepage would be
nice btw
19:35 < skelterjohn> for nicetrace?
19:36 < tav> aye
19:36 < skelterjohn> not worth the effort.  take a look at the _test.go for
an example
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19:36 < tav> yes, but that requires running it though =)
19:36 < skelterjohn> looking at a source file?
19:36 < tav> hmz?
19:36 < skelterjohn> oh you mean seeing what it prints
19:36 < tav> yes
19:36 < skelterjohn> meh :)
19:38 < flavius> So what is the right term for "initializers" outside
main()?  initializer?  (just like flag.Bool in the echo example)
19:38 < skelterjohn> dunno.  initializer seems fien
19:38 < skelterjohn> fine
19:39 < skelterjohn> var X = foo happens before main, and a func init() {
...  } is called before main
19:39 < skelterjohn> that's all
19:39 < flavius> can any package have them?
19:39 < skelterjohn> might say something in the spec
19:39 < skelterjohn> yes
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19:40 < skelterjohn>
http://golang.org/doc/go_spec.html#Program_initialization_and_execution
19:40 < skelterjohn> the "program execution" bit
19:42 < tav> skelterjohn: here ya go: https://gist.github.com/1101805
19:47 < flavius> I have added a func init() { fmt.Println("init") } in the
main package, but nothing is displayed
19:48 < flavius> oh sorry, it worked
20:05 < flavius> How can I concatenate strings?  Something like
fmt.Println(i + ": " + v) won't work
20:05 < aiju> it wokrs
20:05 < aiju> *works
20:05 < aiju> is i an integer?
20:05 < flavius> oh, yes
20:05 < flavius> how would I do it?
20:05 < aiju> fmt.Println(i, ": ", v)
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20:16 < skelterjohn> fmt.Printf("%d: %d\n", i, v)
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20:48 < flavius> So, a package must be compiled before being imported.  Now
I could imagine if I were to write a makefile, I would have to write a "lot" of
".6: .go".  Are there any tools to automatically look which packages a package
depends on, recursively?
20:48 < flavius> and compile them, of course
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20:50 < ww> flavius: goinstall does that
20:50 < ww> i think go-gb may do that as well
20:51 < flavius> goinstall sounds like it would install things.  I only need
to compile the "main" package (and its dependencies)
20:52 < ww> your dependencies need to be installed (unless you do things
like mess with your GOPATH or use relative imports)
20:53 < ww> otherwise the linker won't know where to find them
20:53 < flavius> I am talking about my own packages, the "./main" package
depends on the "./file" package, for instance
20:54 < ww> flavius: in that case you could do something like the build:
target in this makefile: https://bitbucket.org/ww/gold/src/118a368a72d0/Makefile
20:55 < ww> mind that's really only intended for the development
environment, goinstall is used for deployment
20:56 < ww> ...  and goinstall doesn't use the makefiles at all
20:56 < aiju> 22:54 < flavius> So, a package must be compiled before
being imported.  Now I could imagine if I were to write a makefile, I would have
to write a "lot" of ".6: .go".  Are there any tools to automatically look which
packages a package depends on, recursively?
20:56 < aiju> or just learn how to write makefiles?
20:56 < aiju> makefiles have patterns
20:59 < ww> aiju: right, but the more interesting part of his question was
the dependency tree bit...
20:59 < rm445> but in general you have to write in a makefile what source
files make up a package, right?
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21:00 < ww> rm445: yes,
21:00 < ww> i think goinstall assumes all *.go that are not _test.go or
_bench.go make up the package
21:00 < flavius> yes, I was refering to the dependency tree, not the
patterns
21:01 < ww> goinstall then, i believe, parses the source and builds a
dependency tree from the imports
21:01 < flavius> but I don't need it to install anything, it's a development
machine
21:02 < ww> i'm not sure how it works with local imports though...
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21:02 < ww> flavius: i understand, which is why i suggested something like
the build target for that - not automatic but unless you have a really complicated
forest of your own code it should suffice (it does for me)
21:04 < flavius> Anyway I see there are packages to build the AST, so I
guess I will just write a tool for that
21:04 < flavius> For now it was just a question, I don't need it yet
21:04 < ww> i suspect you'll end up reimplementing a good portion of
goinstall that way, but it might be fun
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21:26 < flavius> haha I've managed to crash my executable which has been
successfully built by 6g without a single warning
21:27 < flavius> switch nr, er := f.Read(buf[:]); false { } <-- the false
there makes it crash
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21:41 < angasule> flavius: what's the backtrace?  how do you know it's the
false and not the Read?
21:41 < angasule> flavius: btw, all programs that crash have first managed
to be compilable...
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21:44 < flavius> yes, it is compiled by 6g and linked by 6l, as I said.  The
backtrace is this: https://gist.github.com/1101922
21:44 < angasule> yay, my IRC daemon is now "functional", private messaging
works.
21:44 < flavius> I know it because when I change it to true or I leave it
out, it doesn't crash
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21:49 < ww> flavius: what happens if you run gofmt on that source file?
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21:58 < flavius> ww: nothing
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--- Log closed Sun Jul 24 00:00:01 2011