--- Log opened Mon Jul 25 00:00:01 2011
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00:18 < fuho> Hi, can someone please explain to me how you can create you
own packages?
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00:25 < qeed> look up andrew gerrand package creation
00:25 < qeed> on youtube
00:25 < fuho> qeed: Thanks
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00:57 < askhader> How does one make sense of the output from a panic?  Like
in http://pastebin.com/qJJESU5M
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01:00 < vsmatck> Look at the output toward the top.  The panic happened here
"/home/askhader/whose-version/wire/herald/herald.go:50"
01:00 < askhader> Yes but I want to know why.
01:01 < askhader> The line is a panic(err) call
01:01 < vsmatck> For some reason your code is calling panic when it receives
EOF.  I'm betting your reading a file, and there is a logical problem for
detection of when you finish reading the file.
01:02 < askhader> is EOF an error code that is normally returned when the
end of a file is reached?
01:02 < askhader> I'm used to this being a character.
01:05 < vsmatck> http://golang.org/src/pkg/os/file.go?s=3105:3156#L76
01:06 < askhader> vsmatck: Beautiful, thank you
01:06 < vsmatck> :)
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01:13 < askhader> Has anyone had luck using xml.Unmarshal with data from
http.Get()?  I'm simply having no luck with the following:
http://pastebin.com/zxUaeTdA where my xml file is from rss.cnn.com/rss/edition.rss
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01:47 < angasule> IRC server works!
01:47 < angasule> 1467 lines, 417 are just for errors/responses and 234 are
tests...
01:48 < angasule> I need to clean up, fix some issues and add more tests
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02:53 < jessta> askhader: are you checking for an error returned from
http.Get()?
02:54 < jessta> the code I posted before works, aside from the encoding
issue.
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03:52 < Halavanja> I am trying to run a command with the new exec package
and capture the standard ouput.  So far I can run the command fine but when I add
the grep option I get nothing back.  Is there anyway to pipe more information into
the exec command to do more
03:52 < Halavanja> the command I am running is more /proc/cpuinfo |grep -c
processor
03:53 < Halavanja> this will give me the numeric of the procssors in the
system.
03:54 < jessta> Halavanja: that's two commends
03:54 < jessta> *commands
03:54 < jessta> with a pipe between them
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03:55 < Halavanja> So how would that translate with exec?
03:55 < Halavanja> would i run one and then the other?
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03:56 < jessta> create two exec.Cmd, set the stdout of one to the stdin of
the other
03:57 < Halavanja> Solved it
03:57 < Halavanja> I'm such an idiot
03:57 < Halavanja> thanks
03:57 < Halavanja> That's what I came up with too
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09:08 < Electro^> how would i go about type asserting
'extentRef.Extent["$id"]' into a bson.ObjectId ?
09:08 < Electro^> cannot use extentRef.Extent["$id"] (type interface { }) as
type bson.ObjectId in function argument: need type assertion
09:09 < aiju> .(bson.ObjectId)
09:09 < aiju> foo.(bson.ObjectId) that is
09:10 < Electro^> oh, i tried that in the middle, and since that didnt work
i started looking for other ways
09:10 < Electro^> but yeah that worked, thanks
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09:37 < askhader> jessta: I know that http.Get() is not erring because I am
also dumping the response body to logfile and sure enough the body contains the
xml document...
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09:49 < jessta> askhader: ...that your problem
09:50 < jessta> you're reading the io.Reader before passing it to unmarshal
09:50 < jessta> you get EOF, because you already read the file
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10:00 < askhader> jessta: =O
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10:02 < askhader> jessta: You are correct.  Thank you =]
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16:03 < zozoR> i want to code something, no idea what though
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16:21 < kergoth_> zozoR: i hate that
16:22 < zozoR> it's just
16:22 < zozoR> go is so awesome, i want to do something with it
16:23 < zozoR> but D:
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16:28 < jessta> zozoR: that kind of thinking is what leads to 'web
frameworks'
16:28 < nicka1> make a mud
16:28 < zozoR> my life is too short to fiddle with the http protocol
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16:29 < jessta> If you're looking for practice then do project eular
problems
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16:29 < zozoR> not looking for practice, cause i did the first 20 with go
already ;D
16:29 < jessta> *euler
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16:53 < str1ngs> zozoR: write a native lzma go package
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17:03 < jessta> str1ngs: what about http://code.google.com/p/lzma/
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17:05 < jessta> zozoR: Another thing you can do is find old thirdparty
packages that don't build on the current release and fix them
17:05 < str1ngs> jessta: I dont have a browser right now , does it support
xz containers?
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17:06 < skelterjohn|work> sounds like an exercise in frustration
17:07 < jessta> str1ngs: no idea
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17:07 < str1ngs> jessta: I'll have to check it out later then.  thanks
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18:01 < uriel> iant: is the a rough timeframe for when gccgo will have
multiplexed goroutines?
18:01 <+iant> not really, sorry
18:02 <+iant> I really hope it will be done this year but I don't think I
can promise that
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18:04 < uriel> oh :(
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18:07 < skelterjohn|work> time to get out the whip and chains
18:07 <+iant> you're going to use them on uriel, I assume
18:08 <+iant> I don't think it will take too long when I finally clear some
time to work on it
18:08 < skelterjohn|work> if only that kind of thing would work on
developers
18:08 < skelterjohn|work> actually, if it did...my life would probably be
hell
18:08 < skelterjohn|work> or i'd be in a different profession
18:08 < skelterjohn|work> probably playing guitar for change on street
corners
18:11 < skelterjohn|work> ideally i'd be a much better guitarist than i am
now, if this happened
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18:13 < skelterjohn|work> i'd be picked up by some beautiful patroness, and
be introduced to the good life, for a song
18:14 < skelterjohn|work> i think i just admitted that if i weren't a
programmer i'd have to sell my body for basic sustenance
18:14 < nicka1> I'd do that for gb but I don't think either of us would
enjoy it
18:15 < skelterjohn|work> you'd sell your body to use gb, or you'd let me
sell my body to convince you to use gb?
18:16 < skelterjohn|work> on second thought, i don't want to know the answer
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18:21 < nicka1> take your story and replace playing guitar on a street
corner with working on gb on a street corner
18:21 < skelterjohn|work> but then someone would come with the whips
18:22 < skelterjohn|work> and i...  i just couldn't bear it!  the chains...
the whips...  just take my body, please!
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18:54 < kevlar_work> Gotta be careful with the whips and chains, you might
attract an entirely different crowd to programming classes ;-).
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18:56 < uriel> that would be hard, I think that crowd are already very much
into C++ and Java
18:57 < skelterjohn|work> might do good to shake up the fairly homogeneous
programming class demographic
18:58 < kevlar_work> lol, I look around me at work and I think the
demographic is already pretty diverse
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19:07 < skelterjohn|work> google is a special case
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> i find that the top 5% of my peers (this included
me in undergrad, but probably not grad school) have always been a pretty diverse
crowd
19:08 < skelterjohn|work> it's the rest of the 95% that get homogeneous
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19:33 < askhader> jessta: So I also get the xml encoding error.  How are
these most gracefully handled?
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19:37 < ArgonneIntern> with grace of course
19:38 < askhader> =P
19:38 < aiju> not using XML
19:38 < askhader> Well I guess I the particular panic is panic: xml:
encoding "ISO-8859-1" declared but Parser.CharsetReader is nil
19:38 < aiju> is the most graceful way
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19:39 < skelterjohn|work> if you get a panic that means either you're using
the library wrong or the library is written wrong
19:39 < skelterjohn|work> in this case it looks like you're using it wrong
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19:39 < askhader> skelterjohn|work: I'm all ears
http://pastebin.com/mE0wmBg5
19:39 < ArgonneIntern> not using windows is also the graceful way, but it's
so widely excepted that it becomes a necessary evil.  Such is the case with XML I
imagine
19:40 < skelterjohn|work> off hand i'd say you need to give it a
CharsetReader
19:40 < ArgonneIntern> err accepted
19:40 < askhader> Right
19:40 < askhader> I do.
19:40 < askhader> Thank you
19:40 < skelterjohn|work> wait - you wrote that code or that code appears in
the lib?
19:40 < askhader> I wrote that code.
19:41 < ArgonneIntern> when he said that i heard duh duh duuuuuuuh in my
head
19:41 < askhader> lol
19:41 < skelterjohn|work> you pass nil as the 2nd parameter to unmarshal...
19:41 < skelterjohn|work> what exactly do you expect to happen?
19:41 < skelterjohn|work> the 2nd parameter is where the unmarshalled data
goes
19:41 < askhader> Uh
19:41 < askhader> No.
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19:41 < askhader> This is Parser.Unmarshal
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19:42 < askhader> The second argument is a pointer.
19:42 < skelterjohn|work> my mistake
19:42 < askhader> =]
19:42 < skelterjohn|work> back to the doc, one sec
19:43 < skelterjohn|work> so it appears that the stream you're reading from
is something unusual, and it requires you to set p.CharsetReader in order to make
it work
19:43 < skelterjohn|work> i don't know what ISO-8859-1 is...  is it weird?
19:44 < pharris> 8859-1 is Latin-1.  Not weird at all.
19:44 < ww> nah, standard ascii + western euro accents
19:44 < skelterjohn|work> oh - when i said "I do", i thought you meant "i
already am doing so".  not saying "yes i need to do that"
19:45 < skelterjohn|work> my reading comprehension is low today
19:45 < askhader> Can I see an example of setting CharsetReader?  I'm a bit
confused on how to declare it
19:46 < skelterjohn|work> is ISO-8859-1 utf-8?  the docs say you only need a
CharsetReader if your input is not utf-8
19:46 < askhader> Apparently not
19:46 < pharris> No, 8859-1 is not utf8.
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19:47 < pharris> UTF-8 can encode any unicode code point, potentially using
more than one byte for each.  8859-1 is an older on-byte-per-codepoint subset.
19:49 < askhader> Does my CharsetReader definition need to look like the
CharsetReader definition found here?  http://golang.org/pkg/xml/
19:49 < askhader> declaration found here*
19:49 < aiju> latin-1 (aka 8859-1) is a random retarded charset
19:49 < pharris> In particular, 8859-1 is the first 256 code points of
Unicode.  So read each byte and treat it as a rune.
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19:51 < ww> strong but dubious opinion as usual aiju :) iso-8859-1 is the
most common pre-unicode non-ascii charset that i've seen
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19:52 < aiju> ww: what about iso-8859-15?
19:52 < aiju> CP850?
19:52 < aiju> windows-1251?
19:52 < skelterjohn|work> apparently they are less common
19:53 < ww> skelterjohn|work: in my experience (doing quite a bit of text
processing), yes
19:53 < aiju> oh, i don't even mean windows-1251
19:53 < aiju> windows-1252
19:53 < aiju> i always mix these up
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19:53 < skelterjohn|work> it's times like these that i'm glad i don't care
about this stuff at all
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19:53 < aiju> yes
19:54 < aiju> now we have unicode
19:54 < skelterjohn|work> the one single standard by virtue of its
all-encompassing nae
19:54 < skelterjohn|work> name
19:54 < skelterjohn|work> kind of like the catholic religion
19:54 < aiju> hahaha
19:54 < skelterjohn|work> we'll see the schism in a few years time
19:54 < aiju> i hope not
19:54 < aiju> unicode is full of bullshit
19:55 < skelterjohn|work> reformed unicode, protestocode, calvinism
19:55 < aiju> it's also fun how ww thought i made any reference to
commonness
19:55 < skelterjohn|work> (calvinism is the charset where you don't define a
charset - either the program will work or it won't)
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19:56 < ww> in that case most go programs i write are calvinist
19:56 < skelterjohn|work> aiju: usually if something is "random" that means
it isn't the most common.  colloquially.
19:57 < aiju> random as in "just grab into the huge charset bag"
19:57 < aiju> there is a strong language in that
19:57 < aiju> like shift-jis is probably more common in absolute figures
19:57 < aiju> *strong language bias
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20:06 < askhader> Can someone direct me to general documentation relevant to
how one constructs a Charset conversion?
20:06 < askhader> Particularly with respect to xml.Parser.CharsetReader
20:06 < askhader> Oh I see
20:06 < skelterjohn|work> i suggest just piping the data through and seeing
if it works
20:06 < askhader> I need to get my hands on the relevant charset first.
20:06 < skelterjohn|work> that is, just return the reader immediately
20:06 < askhader> skelterjohn|work: Even that, how would that look?
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20:07 < skelterjohn|work> p.CharsetReader = func(charset string, input
io.Reader) (io.Reader, os.Error) { return input, nil }
20:07 < askhader> ahhh
20:07 < askhader> Danke
20:08 < aiju> he's using nazi language!
20:09 < askhader> Nah there's a character in there that it does't like
20:09 < askhader> Looks like Copyright symbol
20:10 < zozoR> is german nazi language?
20:11 < skelterjohn|work> try using wrtp's gocharset -
http://code.google.com/p/go-charset/source/browse/charset/charset.go
20:11 < skelterjohn|work> you can set p.CharsetReader = charset.NewReader
20:11 < ArgonneIntern> yes, in only a few years they took over the
government AND invented anew language AND got the entire country to adopt and
speak it
20:12 < askhader> skelterjohn|work: Cooleo thank you
20:12 < ArgonneIntern> I should add that to the wiki and see how many people
tell me "what they heard" in the time it takes someone to correct it
20:14 < ArgonneIntern> i think aiju has me ignored, this is the part where
he rips me a new one lol
20:14 < skelterjohn|work> he has mastered the art of not caring - it makes
it easier to not get trolled
20:14 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: oh no
20:15 < aiju> ArgonneIntern: i never ignore people
20:15 < skelterjohn|work> not with an irc command, anyway
20:15 < aiju> i haven't been paying attention to IRC
20:15 < aiju> happens sometimes
20:16 < ArgonneIntern> well I'm out of here after this week.  Project is
winding down and internship is ending.  So you won't see me on this name anymore.
Although it will be fairly obvious if I'm on a different name.  I have some
obvious mannerisms
20:16 < aiju> you will be Argonne
20:16 < ArgonneIntern> yes, that would be me being sneaky...
20:16 < skelterjohn|work> only if an asian says it?
20:16 -!- firwen [~firwen@2a01:e34:eea3:7e10:4a5b:39ff:fe51:e8ae] has quit [Remote
host closed the connection]
20:16 < ArgonneIntern> no one will notice if I remove the tail!
20:17 < Argonne> sup guys I'm new here ><
20:17 < skelterjohn|work> either argonne missed the joke, or i made up a
joke that wasn't there
20:17 < Argonne> i missed it
20:18 < Argonne> what was the joke
20:18 < skelterjohn|work> you would be gone
20:18 < nicka1> I was thinking it skelterjohn|work, decided against it
20:18 < skelterjohn|work> ar gonne, all gone with a stereotypical accent
20:18 < Argonne> oh
20:19 < skelterjohn|work> not a fair stereotype, but a harmless one, so i
went for it
20:19 < Argonne> you can't blame me for not getting that...  that doesn't
come off easy in text
20:19 < skelterjohn|work> it's probably not what aiju meant either
20:19 < aiju> yeah
20:19 < zozoR> my client gives color to names based on name
20:19 < zozoR> when Argonne changed name, it looked new to me :D
20:20 < Argonne> haha, my plan is working!
20:20 < skelterjohn|work> does it ignore things after a |?
20:20 < zozoR> you turned from somewhat dark green to piss yellow : | i
wouldnt call that progress
20:20 < zozoR> dunno?
20:20 < Argonne> lmao!
20:20 < Argonne> here I'll start using the nick I'll likely use after I
leave here.
20:21 < Gaugeforever> now let's hope you havn't seen me on any game forums
lol
20:21 < Nisstyre> yes
20:21 < skelterjohn|work> now you seem like a video game character
20:21 < zozoR> light purple :D
20:21 < askhader> skelterjohn|work: Would it be wise to install that charset
package locally?
20:21 < askhader> Sorry, globally*
20:21 < skelterjohn|work> askhader: how else could you use it?
20:21 < skelterjohn|work> ah
20:21 < skelterjohn|work> i recommend you set $GOPATH to something
20:21 < skelterjohn|work> and then goinstall it
20:22 < askhader> I have $GOPATH set.
20:22 < askhader> Let me tery that
20:22 < askhader> tr*
20:22 < skelterjohn|work> Gaugeforever: now we can read your reddit comments
http://www.reddit.com/user/gauge
20:22 < Gaugeforever> i don't have a reddit account?
20:22 < skelterjohn|work> don't lie
20:23 < Gaugeforever> lmao why are all those revolving around sex
20:23 < askhader> skelterjohn|work: Can I pass an http URL to goinstall?
20:23 < skelterjohn|work> they're your comments
20:23 < skelterjohn|work> askhader: without the http://
20:23 < Gaugeforever> yes yes, you've caught me ><
20:23 < skelterjohn|work> goinstall go-charset.googlecode.com/hg/charset
20:23 < Gaugeforever> i "harbor animosity towards women"
20:23 < askhader> goinstall: code.google.com/p/go-charset/: package could
not be found locally
20:24 < nicka1> the go binaries folder isn't in your path
20:25 < Gaugeforever> you would see me on paradox interactive forums,
khronos forums.  I might have a 4chan account, if I do I can't remember it
20:25 < skelterjohn|work> no - that's just not the url it wants
20:25 < skelterjohn|work> needs to be of the form i said
20:25 < nicka1> oh I read that wrong :/
20:26 < kevlar_work> googlecode now supports git, wewt.
20:26 < Gaugeforever> say whaaat
20:26 < askhader> Ah
20:27 < skelterjohn|work> yeah last week
20:27 -!- zozoR [~Morten@2906ds2-arno.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed
the connection]
20:27 < skelterjohn|work> i still think github is a superior project setup
20:28 < Gaugeforever> http://www.gaugegaming.net
20:28 < Gaugeforever> try not to laugh too hard
20:28 < ww> google code reminds me of some kind of saying about eggs and
baskets...  now how did that go?
20:29 * ww read something about tha trecently:
http://www.twitlonger.com/show/bt2p2o
20:30 < Vovchik> lol I think he used google transolator
20:31 < Gaugeforever> put all your eggs in one basket?
20:32 < skelterjohn|work> I think you've got it, Gaugeforever.  The saying
is, "put all your eggs in one basket."
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20:42 < askhader> So I've installed a golang package using goinsall.  What
kind of import statement do I need?
20:43 < elimisteve> askhader: the same URL you used for goinstall
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20:44 < askhader> cool
20:44 < fluffle> skelterjohn|work: does the github version of gb track
release or weekly?
20:44 < askhader> Dear lord, finally got that xml document parsed.
20:45 < askhader> Let the killing begin.
20:45 < nicka1> you should have killed whoever chose xml for your project
20:45 < fluffle> ah, hm.  one suspects release/ tracks release, and head
tracks whatever's currently buildable?
20:45 < askhader> How else do I receive updates from news feeds?
20:45 < askhader> If only they provided a json push.
20:46 < nicka1> fair enough
20:46 < fluffle> related: how do i get goinstall to install from the master
branch rather than release?
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20:53 < kevlar_work> fluffle, you don't
20:53 < kevlar_work> (you'd have to delete the release tag or branch)
20:54 < fluffle> kevlar_work: au contraire *cough*
20:54 < kevlar_work> oh?  you can do it?
20:54 < Vovchik> nicka1: so what do you recommend over xml?
20:54 < kevlar_work> if so, it's been added since the version I have checked
out
20:54 < Vovchik> binary reading/writing?
20:54 < fluffle> it's nasty, but it works : cd
$GOROOT/src/pkg/github.com/skelterjohn/go-gb/gb; git checkout master; git pull;
git merge origin/master
20:55 < fluffle> then don't use goinstall -u :)
20:55 < kevlar_work> fluffle, so I was right, you don't
20:55 < kevlar_work> goinstall won't do it.
20:55 < kevlar_work> You can do it yourself, of course, but that's not what
you asked ;-)
20:55 < Gaugeforever> ctrl + C is syscall.SIGKILL right?
20:55 < fluffle> touche :D
20:55 < aiju> Gaugeforever: no
20:55 < fluffle> Gaugeforever: sigint
20:55 < Gaugeforever> thanks
20:55 < aiju> ctrl + \ is SIGQUIT
20:56 < nicka1> json is a lot nicer I've found but I haven't used either
extensively
20:56 < kevlar_work> Gaugeforever, ^C = SIGINT, ^Z = SIGTSTP, ^/ = SIGQUIT
20:56 < kevlar_work> er, ^\ indeed
20:56 < fluffle> ah, great, the package I want to use has been modified for
weekly of 2011-07-07 but not the newer one
20:56 < kevlar_work> gofix!
20:56 < fluffle> gofix doesn't want to fix
20:56 < kevlar_work> lame
20:56 < fluffle> yes :/
20:56 < kevlar_work> the perils of working at tip, lol
20:57 < kevlar_work> what package?
20:57 < fluffle> true
20:57 < ww> nicka1, Vovchik i find the Go xml and json libraries
approximately the same in terms of ease of use...
20:57 < kevlar_work> the maintainer might be on this channel, lol
20:57 < fluffle> github.com/garyburd/go-mong
20:57 < fluffle> o
20:57 < ww> s/libraries/packages/ (too much C this past week)
20:57 < fluffle> i see the reflect api is in flux recently
20:57 < fluffle> what's the latest idiom for f.Tag.Get("bson") ?
20:58 < kevlar_work> no, that's it
20:58 < kevlar_work> unless it's changed since I checked, but I don't think
it has
20:58 < nicka1> ww you're likely correct, but I'm all for there being less
xml to parse in the world :P
20:58 < fluffle> bson.go:281: cannot use f.Tag (type reflect.StructTag) as
type string in function argument
20:58 < kevlar_work> fluffle, that means someone hasn't changed to
f.Tag.Get()
20:58 < fluffle> hmm
20:58 < kevlar_work> the reason gofix won't fix that is because, while it
could guess at the f.Tag fix, it can't fix the structures which might depend on it
20:59 < ww> nicka1: if json had namespaces...  :)
20:59 < kevlar_work> have you tried mgo?
20:59 < fluffle> does Tag.Get() return a StructTag not a string now
20:59 < fluffle> kevlar_work: i looked at it but i hate browsing source on
launchpad so I shied away
20:59 < kevlar_work> f.Tag is a type StructTag string, f.Tag.Get(ns string)
reutrns a string
20:59 < fluffle> also there's precisely fuckall docs around, though I
suspect I should use godoc to fix
20:59 < fluffle> so
20:59 < fluffle> 281 p := strings.Split(f.Tag.Get("bson"), "/")
20:59 < fluffle> that should be right, then?
21:00 < kevlar_work> yes
21:00 < ww> nicka1: but generally i agree, and have spent too much time
parsing xml in my life
21:00 < fluffle> well, i'm confused
21:00 < kevlar_work> what does `godoc reflect StructTag` say
21:01 < nicka1> ww: I'm not a rabid hater/defender of xml/json but the
latter has given me less grief certainly
21:01 < fluffle> func (tag StructTag) Get(key string) string
21:01 < fluffle> well that looks sane
21:01 < fluffle> meh i've probably boned something by doing something stupid
21:01 < kevlar_work> are you sure you've done make.bash and goinstall -clean
-u -a?
21:03 < fluffle> kevlar_work: i did: hg pull -u; hg update weekly; cd src;
./all.bash
21:03 < fluffle> the goinstall part is where things are going wrong
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21:06 < fluffle> oh, waitasecond
21:06 < fluffle> clean appears to have changed things -- now line 281 reads:
21:06 -!- napsy [~luka@88.200.96.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
21:06 < fluffle> 281 p := strings.Split(f.Tag, "/")
21:06 < fluffle> which is *clearly* broken
21:07 < fluffle> ok you can ignore me now, i'll stop :)
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#go-nuts
21:28 * fluffle pines for negative array indices
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21:31 < bugQ> what for?  you mean like how python slices ?
21:32 < fluffle> bugQ: i'm going through a bunch of old code and removing
the explicit zero and len in [0:n] and [n:len(x)] slices
21:32 -!- ShadowIce [~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044] has quit [Quit:
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21:32 < fluffle> and wishing I could do the same for array[len(array)-1]
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21:40 < Gaugeforever> so you want an last(array[]) or something?
21:41 < fluffle> Gaugeforever: i want array[-1] to do the same as
array[len(array)-1]
21:41 < Gaugeforever> what happens when you put in array[-2]
21:42 < fluffle> do you really need to ask that question?
21:42 < Gaugeforever> if the array is only 1 element large, yes
21:42 < fluffle> about the same as array[1] would do in that instance
21:42 -!- huin [~huin@91.84.179.118] has quit [Quit: bedtime]
21:43 < fluffle> the compiler *knows* how big the damn array is, it should
be able to index it from both ends
21:43 < fluffle> but nm :)
21:43 < Gaugeforever> I supose that depends on how len() works
21:43 < Gaugeforever> I don't think the compiler knows for the record
21:44 < fluffle> hm, you're right, it's a runtime panic for array
out-of-bounds errors, my bad
21:44 < Gaugeforever> in order for the compiler to know, wouldn't it have to
be a predefined constant.  Otherwise you could just append and the len() would
give a different len
21:44 < Gaugeforever> yes, right!
21:45 < fluffle> buuuttt, that doesn't really get away from my point, in the
end.  it's the *compiler* that allows you to omit the len(slice) in
slice[n:len(slice)]
21:45 < skelterjohn> fluffle: the git version tracks weekly.  there is a
release tag that tracks release (so if you use goinstall, it gets that version)
21:46 < fluffle> skelterjohn: indeed.  I've forced my locally acquired git
version to master for great building justice :)
21:46 < Gaugeforever> so you mean you want the compiler to replace [-1] with
len(arrayName} -1
21:46 < skelterjohn> heh cool
21:46 < fluffle> pretty much -- if it can do it for slices, it should be
able to do it for indexing
21:46 < skelterjohn> negative indices for slices will not happen
21:47 < skelterjohn> it might even be in the faq
21:47 < skelterjohn> but it has been discussed a few times before
21:47 < fluffle> i figured as much, tbh, or they'd have happened already
21:47 * fluffle goes to hunt down the faq
21:51 < f2f> fluffle:
http://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/0b0af95059d4dc11
21:51 < fluffle> thanks.  couldn't find anything in the faq
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seconds]
21:52 < fluffle> oh
21:52 < fluffle> damn that rob pike and his excellent reasoning
21:52 < fluffle> :)
21:53 < fluffle> i'd completely not considered integer overflow
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22:00 < skelterjohn> that issue, at least, is no problem in python (the
first language where i noticed that negative indices did something special)
22:00 < skelterjohn> i don't know if there are other languages that do it
22:00 < fluffle> perl does too
22:01 < skelterjohn> presumably perl also smoothly handles big ints
22:02 < bugQ> ah, I just read that thread
22:03 < bugQ> personally I would be all for $ and _actual_ negative
indexing, but not conditional wraparound
22:03 < bugQ> although overflow is still a problem
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22:05 < bugQ> skelterjohn: it is no problem as long as certain "contracts"
are maintained
22:06 < bugQ> considering features like defer, go seems the type of langauge
to ensure that those contracts aren't broken regardless of the programmer's wishes
22:06 < skelterjohn> i don't know what "$" means in what you said
22:06 < bugQ> a[$-1] instead of a[len(a)-1]
22:07 < skelterjohn> i see - you want to add a strange syntactic element
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22:08 < skelterjohn> that does make it easy to index from the end with a
slice that doesn't make it into a temporary
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22:08 < skelterjohn> like x := getASlice()[$-5:]
22:08 < bugQ> well I would take it over adding a runtime condition check
22:08 < skelterjohn> i see what you mean
22:08 < bugQ> right, that is the basic advantage
22:08 < skelterjohn> i didn't mean to imply it's not a good idea, btw
22:09 < skelterjohn> though i realize i called it "strange"
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22:15 < bugQ> this is the other thing I mentioned:
https://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/msg/bfa29d14d1faddce
22:17 < skelterjohn> has anyone suggested the $ idea in those threads?
22:17 < skelterjohn> do any other languages do it?
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22:17 < bugQ> rob mentioned that also, and yes, sawzall
22:17 < bugQ> and a few others I think
22:18 < skelterjohn> was it well received at all?
22:19 < bugQ> well rob is pretty protective of his baby, he only brought
them up as alternatives in a case against the requested conditional semantics
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22:19 < bugQ> just read the thread
https://groups.google.com/group/golang-nuts/browse_thread/thread/e7c44811f5030037
22:19 < bugQ> :P
22:19 < bugQ> I've got to go make pizza
22:19 < skelterjohn> didn't know which thread :)
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22:20 < bugQ> parent link is on the line above the message
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 26 00:00:01 2011